Sheryl Crow - dead bass sound
Shane Milburn
Tuesday Night Music Club. After being struck the bass notes die out
quickly. "Leaving Las Vegas" is an example that probably everyone has
heard. My question is how is this sound achieved? I'm guessing old
bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
I really like the sound for that style of music.
Thanks for comments.
Shane Milburn - dur...@cris.com
DonEPearce
produce this rapid damping. I suspect the sound on the Sheryl Crow tracks owes
more to technology, though.
Don
carpedonut
strings right in front of the bridge. Make sure it doesn't completely
choke the strings or push up the action. You just want enough foam to
slightly deaden the strings. This way you don't have to worry about hand
muting or any other awkward technique. Flatwounds will also help achieve
this sound. Of course they probably used an early 60's P or Jazz bass and
an Ampeg B15 type of amp.
Good luck,
Sean Carberry
Shane Milburn wrote:
> Sheryl Crow has a "dead" or "damped" bass sound on several tunes on
> Tuesday Night Music Club. After being struck the bass notes die out
> quickly. "Leaving Las Vegas" is an example that probably everyone has
> heard. My question is how is this sound achieved? I'm guessing old
> bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
> I really like the sound for that style of music.
>
> Thanks for comments.
> Shane Milburn - dur...@cris.com
--
What's the average air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
African or European?
I don't know, EEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeiiiiii.......
SteveHigdn
>>Tuesday Night Music Club. After being struck the bass notes die out
>>quickly. "Leaving Las Vegas" is an example that probably everyone has
>>heard. My question is how is this sound achieved? I'm guessing old
>>bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
>>I really like the sound for that style of music.
I've achieved this kind of sound with some foam or a rag stuffed under the
strings very close to the bridge of the bass. Some old basses had mutes for
this purpose. For some reason, short scale instruments work well for that
dumpy kind of sound (Fender Musicmaster or Mustang, Gibson SG shaped EB-*
basses, etc.).
Have fun...
Steve Higdon
James Johnson
strings to accomplish the same thing; I greatly prefer
using my hand, it gives me more control.
Jimmy
carpedonut wrote:
>
> Try sticking a piece of foam (sonex or whatever you have) under the
> strings right in front of the bridge. Make sure it doesn't completely
> choke the strings or push up the action. You just want enough foam to
> slightly deaden the strings. This way you don't have to worry about hand
> muting or any other awkward technique. Flatwounds will also help achieve
> this sound. Of course they probably used an early 60's P or Jazz bass and
> an Ampeg B15 type of amp.
>
> Good luck,
> Sean Carberry
>
> Shane Milburn wrote:
>
> > Sheryl Crow has a "dead" or "damped" bass sound on several tunes on
> > Tuesday Night Music Club. After being struck the bass notes die out
> > quickly. "Leaving Las Vegas" is an example that probably everyone has
> > heard. My question is how is this sound achieved? I'm guessing old
> > bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
> > I really like the sound for that style of music.
> >
syna...@pathcom.com
this group regularly..... Perhaps he may still be lurking out
there.... He would obviously be the voice of reason on this one.
Cheers,
J.
dur...@concentric.net (Shane Milburn) wrote:
>Sheryl Crow has a "dead" or "damped" bass sound on several tunes on
>Tuesday Night Music Club. After being struck the bass notes die out
>quickly. "Leaving Las Vegas" is an example that probably everyone has
>heard. My question is how is this sound achieved? I'm guessing old
>bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
>I really like the sound for that style of music.
>Thanks for comments.
>Shane Milburn - dur...@cris.com
----------------------------------
Synaptic Gap Productions
Toronto, Ontario
(416) 410 - 6595
syna...@pathcom.com
----------------------------------
Mixerman
I believe the P bass is one of them. Add some flat wound strings to the
mix, and you can achieve a dead sound. I'm sure Dan Schwartz as a plethora
of basses to choose from which would account for the differences in bass
tones between songs. It's always at the source my friends.
Mixerman
Shane Milburn wrote in message <3836d6b...@news.concentric.net>...
s
I'm guessing old
>bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
>I really like the sound for that style of music.
>
This has always been my favorite bass sound for recording (and it has caused
countless fights with studio engineers and a producer or two.) Although the
foam muting trick certainly works, it is not necessary unless you are
playing with new strings and you have some aversion to working your tone
controls. I have a couple of early 60's P basses set up with old strings
and play them through Ampeg portaflex amps or Mesa Boogie D180 and B400's.
Right hand muting isn't very practical if you are playing with your fingers
(think where your right hand is when playing your E string with your
fingers); it does work well if you play with a pick. When playing with your
fingers, I find it easier to choke the notes by releasing my LEFT hand after
each note. A related question - I see a lot of photos of Sheryl Crow
playing bass herself; does she play on any of the album tracks ? Any that
get radio play that I might be familiar with ?
M
Shane Milburn wrote in message <3836d6b...@news.concentric.net>...
>Sheryl Crow has a "dead" or "damped" bass sound on several tunes on
>Tuesday Night Music Club. After being struck the bass notes die out
>quickly. "Leaving Las Vegas" is an example that probably everyone has
>bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
>I really like the sound for that style of music.
>
>Shane Milburn - dur...@cris.com
I play with my fingers, my pinky, and ring fingers control the muting, it
sounds just like that..
(but better... my bass amp is red)
M
Redtenor
Exercises. The video is all about right hand muting - with fingertips, not
palm. It's easy to learn. - redtenor
hank alrich
> Shane Milburn wrote in message <3836d6b...@news.concentric.net>...
> >Sheryl Crow has a "dead" or "damped" bass sound on several tunes on
> >Tuesday Night Music Club. After being struck the bass notes die out
> >quickly. "Leaving Las Vegas" is an example that probably everyone has
> >heard. My question is how is this sound achieved? I'm guessing old
> >bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
> >I really like the sound for that style of music.
>
> I play with my fingers, my pinky, and ring fingers control the muting, it
> sounds just like that..
>
> (but better... my bass amp is red)
Hence, warmer.
--
hank - secret mountain
Note: the rec.audio.pro FAQ is at http://recordist.com/rap-faq/current
Read it and reap!
Jon Best
session or another. Sting and I happen to do it the same way :) - put your
heel (er, the heel of your right hand) across the bridge, just resting on the
strings, and play with your thumb. Or get a Stingray, which is a pretty good
bass for this anyway, and use the little string mutes. Or mute up at the
fretting end with pinky/ring finger, if you need to play with your right hand
farther from the bridge or with a pick. This is harder. A good P bass
doesn't hurt much, either.
Jon Best
Sales Weasel From Mars
carpedonut wrote:
> Try sticking a piece of foam (sonex or whatever you have) under the
> strings right in front of the bridge. Make sure it doesn't completely
> choke the strings or push up the action. You just want enough foam to
> slightly deaden the strings. This way you don't have to worry about hand
> muting or any other awkward technique. Flatwounds will also help achieve
> this sound. Of course they probably used an early 60's P or Jazz bass and
> an Ampeg B15 type of amp.
>
> Good luck,
> Sean Carberry
>
> Shane Milburn wrote:
>
> > Sheryl Crow has a "dead" or "damped" bass sound on several tunes on
> > Tuesday Night Music Club. After being struck the bass notes die out
> > quickly. "Leaving Las Vegas" is an example that probably everyone has
> > heard. My question is how is this sound achieved? I'm guessing old
> > bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
> > I really like the sound for that style of music.
> >
> > Thanks for comments.
> > Shane Milburn - dur...@cris.com
>
mg...@earthlink.net
<Mixe...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> There are a variety of vintage basses that just naturally have this sound.
> I believe the P bass is one of them. Add some flat wound strings to the
> mix, and you can achieve a dead sound. I'm sure Dan Schwartz as a plethora
> of basses to choose from which would account for the differences in bass
> tones between songs. It's always at the source my friends.
>
> Mixerman
Congratulations. Yours is the only response that's close.
DS
mg...@earthlink.net
A related question - I see a lot of photos of Sheryl Crow
> playing bass herself; does she play on any of the album tracks ?
Keyboard on one track.
DS
M
Jon Best wrote in message <38376F5D...@erols.com>...
>Jon Best
>Sales Weasel From Mars
Man, I am gonna buy Mars, and stock it with rotting fish....
>=oP
:-)
M
M
hank alrich wrote:
>>
>> (but better... my bass amp is red)
>
>Hence, warmer.
>
>--
>hank
Deeper too, just really deep.
<thumm-p>
M
(i shudda got a distressor last week)
Jon Best
M wrote:
Well, OK. Hm. Gonna need to do some employee restructuring if you
expect us to suck as bad at selling fish as we do at selling octave
pedals. EBS has the best one I've heard, BTW, but then again you'd
expect me to know a little something- I don't work in the guitar
department. :)
Jon Best
Sales Weasel From The Apparently Bottom Of The Food Chain Mars.
Fletcher
> >>
> >> Sheryl Crow has a "dead" or "damped" bass sound on several tunes on
> >> Tuesday Night Music Club. After being struck the bass notes die out
> >> quickly. "Leaving Las Vegas" is an example that probably everyone has
> >> heard. My question is how is this sound achieved? I'm guessing old
> >> bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
> >> I really like the sound for that style of music.
> >>
> >> Thanks for comments.
> >> Shane Milburn - dur...@cris.com
> >
So I e-mail's this to DS,
> >Found this on rec.audio.pro...wanna straighten him out?
and he writes me back...
[BTW, for dem's dat don't know...BB=Bill Botrell, TNMC= Tuesday Night
Music Club, SC=The Rock Star Bitch, and if you can't figure out DS
you're dumber than dirt]
Daniel Schwartz wrote:
>
>
> You do it. But leave paragraphs 2 and 3 out - they're just for you.
> Nobody's else's biz. You can paraphrase however you want but I'm tired of
> being involved in the public bullshit of this very PR-bullshit-filled
> record.
>
> There are 3 basses on that album. "LLV" and "Strong Enough" were done when
> SC was first introduced to TNMC by Kevin Gilbert, during 2 weeks in August
> '92 when my future wife and me were traveling on the east coast to announce
> our engagement to all de old folks at home.
>
[snipped per request]
>
> So off we went. "LLV" was played the night it was written by David Ricketts
> on a Squier P belonging to Baerwald, left around Toad Hall from the
> "Triage" sessions which had ended some months earlier. It had very dead
> strings, and Ricketts had a very foursquare muted style.
>
> "Strong Enough" was played by BB the day after the fact, an overdub done on
> a one-off bass of mine that I had left there. It's a '68 Guild M85 fretless
> custom bass made for Phil Lesh that he gave me when I was in high school.
> Rick Turner used it to prototype his nylon string piezo thing so that and
> the very hoolowbody woitha neck thorugh construcntion are what you mostly
> hear, most audibly on "We Do What We Can."
>
> The rest of the album is me either on that bass or a custom Modulus
> Graphite/Music Man Sabre hybrid, with dead Scalar strings. I still have the
> same set on it. It's also very audible on "Joytown" and "Shrug," TNMC tunes
> on KG's "Thud," and "When You Give Your Love To me," a BB tune on "Thud."
>
> With the exception of "When You Give..." which was tracked through an
> Alembic F2-B, all the other stuff is DI-only through the Bottrell homemade
> DI and whatever limiter he felt like that day. My best performance on
> "TNMC" was "Run Baby Run," but I did it while BB and SC went to lunch with
> just the 2nd with me, and he way overcompressed through a 670, and then
> that was of course the only tune on the record that BB mixed entirely
> through the 670, so goodbye bass. We mixed all to my EAR 1" tube 2-track at
> 15, and that helped from losing any more bottom end on the rest of the
> record.
>
> DS
> >
> >
> >
>
> nothing is real...
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
carpedonut
mg...@earthlink.net wrote:
Geez, I said 60's P-bass with flatwounds, didn't I? Granted, I also mentioned the
foam thing...
Sean
--
What's the average air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
African or European?
I don't know, EEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeiiiiii.......
David Morgan (MAMS)
Fletcher wrote in message <38377E...@mercenary.com>...
>Daniel Schwartz wrote:
>> nothing is real...
Cool post Fletcher. Matter of fact, this was a good night for you. ;-)
DM
Tony Rundle
Tony
s <s...@soca.com> wrote in message
news:12HZ3.146$eN3....@typhoon-la.pbi.net...
>
> I'm guessing old
> >bass strings or tuning the bass down might get closer to that effect.
> >I really like the sound for that style of music.
> >
>
>
M
Jon Best wrote in message <383784B6...@erols.com>...
> but then again you'd
>expect me to know a little something- I don't work in the guitar
>department. :)
>
>Jon Best
I keep thinking:
Stop befriending the martians.... remember what they did in the movie.
M
Dave Martin
Tony Rundle wrote in message <818kpi$d2u$1...@gxsn.com>...
>Wow - are you supposed to change bass strings then?
>
>Tony
>
Jazz, Modulus 6, Pedulla Fretless, Fender Bass VI. The precision has old
strings on it, all the rest are new. I'm kind of keeping my eyes open for
another cheap P-Bass, so I can keep flat wounds on that one and fresh round
wounds on one. I'm also gonna get a Musicman of some sort one of these days,
since that sound is so distinctive. One the flat wound strings go on, I
won't change them until a string rots away.
My opinion...
Dave Martin
Digital Media Associates, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave....@nashville.com
hank alrich
> Jon Best wrote in message <383784B6...@erols.com>...
>
> > but then again you'd
> >expect me to know a little something- I don't work in the guitar
> >department. :)
>
> I keep thinking:
>
> Stop befriending the martians.... remember what they did in the movie.
I'll befriend Jon, no matter where he's from. He's a good guy and
knowledgeable, someone whom we'd all be delighted to find behind the
counter at any vendor's shop. I can accept that many Mars weasels are
inept, but I submit that none of the inept ones are Jon Best.
M
hank alrich wrote:
>
>I'll befriend Jon, no matter where he's from. He's a good guy and
>knowledgeable, someone whom we'd all be delighted to find behind the
>counter at any vendor's shop. I can accept that many Mars weasels are
>inept, but I submit that none of the inept ones are Jon Best.
>
>--
>hank
I'd agree with that, I mean, I don't hate everyone that works for John
Oram.. for instance.
M
-I hope our enlightening debates here cause enlightening debates.
Jon Best
Preferably on the P bass, perhaps the Buzz. I love these things. A lot. As a
side benefit, they take many months to even start to think about going dead.
Jon Best
Sales Weasel From Mars
Jon Best
skeletons.
Ack! Ack!
:)
Jon Best
Sales Weasel From Mars
hank alrich wrote:
> M <strang...@mindwarp.com> wrote:
>
> > Jon Best wrote in message <383784B6...@erols.com>...
> >
> > > but then again you'd
> > >expect me to know a little something- I don't work in the guitar
> > >department. :)
> >
> > I keep thinking:
> >
> > Stop befriending the martians.... remember what they did in the movie.
>
> I'll befriend Jon, no matter where he's from. He's a good guy and
> knowledgeable, someone whom we'd all be delighted to find behind the
> counter at any vendor's shop. I can accept that many Mars weasels are
> inept, but I submit that none of the inept ones are Jon Best.
>
> --
Jay - Atlanta Digital
<Flet...@mercenary.com> wrote:
> > There are 3 basses on that album. "LLV" and "Strong Enough" were done when
> > SC was first introduced to TNMC by Kevin Gilbert, during 2 weeks in August
> > '92
Crow. Grrrr! I believe this dagger is yours madam?
for those who understand...
jim andrews
Count me out, but if one of you insiders would someday
drop me an email and let me in one why the whole industry
seems to have *very* strong feelings about Sheryl Crow,
I would appreciate it. Personally, I think her music
just gets better each album, but what do I know.
jim andrews
basset sound
austin, tejas
S. Warner
jim andrews <jand...@activepower.com> wrote in message
news:3838EED5...@activepower.com...
She's one of the few true artists making real music these days. She's
obviously been in the biz for a while. I don't know anyone signed to a
major (A&M at the time) who could make a debut record with Hugh Pagham (I
hope I spelled that right), and then shelve it. To me, that took guts.
I love all her jabs at the industry in her lyrics. She sang backup for
Michael Jackson in the eighties.
And on her first record she gripes about his (then) manager Frank Dileo;
stating 'maybe if I'd have let him, I'd have had a hit song'.
I think the industry (and the voting members of NARAS) reacts positively to
someone who is honest about their music... at least since the Milli Vanilli
incident, and that Jethro Tull, Heavy Metal thing.
-Scott (Warner)
Jay - Atlanta Digital
<san...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> someone who is honest about their music... at least since the Milli Vanilli
> incident,
Well it wasn't as bad as the Milli Vanilli thing, but an interesting
connection you've made.
Honesty. That's good.
-Jay Frigoletto
Atlanta Digital
www.promastering.com
kkle...@my-deja.com
CROW, THE INDUSTRY'S FEELINGS TOWARD HER, AND THE TUESDAY NIGHT MUSIC
CLUB. IT IS A GREAT STORY FORM THE SAN FRAN CHRONICLE.
http://www.thedebster.com/gilbert/secrets.html
-KK
In article <3838EED5...@activepower.com>,
jim andrews <jand...@activepower.com> wrote:
> Jay - Atlanta Digital wrote:
> >
> > In article <38377E...@mercenary.com>, Fletcher
> > <Flet...@mercenary.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > There are 3 basses on that album. "LLV" and "Strong Enough"
were done when
> > > > SC was first introduced to TNMC by Kevin Gilbert, during 2
weeks in August
> > > > '92
> >
> > Crow. Grrrr! I believe this dagger is yours madam?
> >
> > for those who understand...
>
> Count me out, but if one of you insiders would someday
> drop me an email and let me in one why the whole industry
> seems to have *very* strong feelings about Sheryl Crow,
> I would appreciate it. Personally, I think her music
> just gets better each album, but what do I know.
>
> jim andrews
> basset sound
> austin, tejas
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Fletcher
>
>
> She's one of the few true artists making real music these days. She's
> obviously been in the biz for a while. I don't know anyone signed to a
> major (A&M at the time) who could make a debut record with Hugh Pagham (I
> hope I spelled that right), and then shelve it. To me, that took guts.
No, that didn't take guts...that took someone at A&M saying: "This
sucks", and not wanting to put money into the release/pressing/promotion
that would have been required around the record. The artist doesn't
decide to shelve anything, the record company people decide to shelve
things.
They're not always artistic reasons [though from what I understand about
the Huge Paycheck album, it was a creative decision from the A&R
department], sometimes your A&R weasel gets fired during your production
and the rest of the A&R staff decides to kick the plug out of the
wall...and your tape ends up on a vault shelf somewhere...sometimes the
promotions departments says: "We've got no time or budget for this
crap", and on the shelf you go.
Did you see all the negative press that came out following the Tuesday
Night Music Club record? What a load of horseshit that was...it wasn't
even her fucking club for crissakes. If you don't know the history
behind it, it was actually some very talented people that got together
to make music on Tuesday nights...like some guys have a poker night,
these guys had a music night.
She got brought in because she was somebodies girlfriend...not for any
other reason. They made the record/did the demos, and then took it to
A&M [she was under contract still], and they bought the record. At
least that's the way the people that actually made the damn thing tell
it...I don't read "Rolling Stone" or "SPIN" so I don't know what the
official record company version is...
>
> I love all her jabs at the industry in her lyrics. She sang backup for
> Michael Jackson in the eighties.
Yippy, she got a gig. I just had the programmer that did Shawn Mullins
and Collective Soul working on a demo I produced...does that mean he's
on his way down because he was working on a demo? On the same demo, the
drummer in Keith Richards new solo band played percussion...does that
make him on the way down too?
> And on her first record she gripes about his (then) manager Frank Dileo;
> stating 'maybe if I'd have let him, I'd have had a hit song'.
>
I'm sorry, I don't get what you're saying here...
> I think the industry (and the voting members of NARAS) reacts positively to
> someone who is honest about their music... at least since the Milli Vanilli
> incident, and that Jethro Tull, Heavy Metal thing.
>
> -Scott (Warner)
I think the industry and the voting members of NARAS react positively to
sales figures. Being a voting member of NARAS isn't too tough...I've
been invited to become a voting memeber of NARAS, and if they'll have a
shitheel like me as a voting member any fuckin' mook can be one. I've
also been invited to prospect a couple of MC's...which to me would have
*way* more credibility than being a voting member of NARAS.
Hey, it's wonderful that people like Trina Shomaker are getting the
recognition they so richly deserve because of the Crow girl...but
really, have you ever seen her live show? It wasn't pretty. Then
again, her organization has moved several million more units than my
organization, so she's right and I'm still a sales weasel...how's that
for a little fucking perspective...
jim andrews
> Yippy, she got a gig. I just had the programmer that did Shawn Mullins
> and Collective Soul working on a demo I produced...does that mean he's
> on his way down because he was working on a demo?
No, I'd say he's on his way up.
jim andrews (not a Mullins/CS fan)
basset sound
austin, tejas
Larry Heinemann
recognition they so richly deserve because of the Crow girl...but
really, have you ever seen her live show? It wasn't pretty. >>
Here, here on Trina Shoemaker! curious, I've never seen Sheryl live but in the
concerts I've seen broadcast it sounds like she has some pipes but seems
surrounded by a shockingly mediocre band. What was your experience Fletcher?
Larry Heinemann.
Paul Benedetti
recognition they so richly deserve because of the Crow girl...but
again, her organization has moved several million more units than my
organization, so she's right and I'm still a sales weasel...how's that
for a little fucking perspective... >>
Everytime I have seen her live, she sings better than on her records, I don't
know about the band or the show, but she can sing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Benedetti
Max Trax Studios
227 Quail St.
Albany,NY 12203
http://www.maxtraxstudios.com
S. Warner
Fletcher <Flet...@mercenary.com> wrote in message
news:383A91...@mercenary.com...
> S. Warner wrote:
> >
> >
> > She's one of the few true artists making real music these days. She's
> > obviously been in the biz for a while. I don't know anyone signed to a
> > major (A&M at the time) who could make a debut record with Hugh Pagham
(I
> > hope I spelled that right), and then shelve it. To me, that took guts.
>
>
> No, that didn't take guts...that took someone at A&M saying: "This
> sucks", and not wanting to put money into the release/pressing/promotion
> that would have been required around the record. The artist doesn't
> decide to shelve anything, the record company people decide to shelve
> things.
That's a fair point. I am guilty of buying into the PR on o-kay-sion. I'd
be curious to hear the record, though.
>
> They're not always artistic reasons [though from what I understand about
> the Huge Paycheck album, it was a creative decision from the A&R
> department], sometimes your A&R weasel gets fired during your production
> and the rest of the A&R staff decides to kick the plug out of the
> wall...and your tape ends up on a vault shelf somewhere...sometimes the
> promotions departments says: "We've got no time or budget for this
> crap", and on the shelf you go.
So true. Thank goodness for the 'greatest hits' record to fulfill the terms
of the contract and let someone move on.
> Did you see all the negative press that came out following the Tuesday
> Night Music Club record? What a load of horseshit that was...it wasn't
> even her fucking club for crissakes. If you don't know the history
> behind it, it was actually some very talented people that got together
> to make music on Tuesday nights...like some guys have a poker night,
> these guys had a music night.
I understand one guy 86'd himself due to personal problems (obviously). But
yes, There is a great deal of difference between the TSMC record and her
eponymous record.
> She got brought in because she was somebodies girlfriend...not for any
> other reason. They made the record/did the demos, and then took it to
> A&M [she was under contract still], and they bought the record. At
> least that's the way the people that actually made the damn thing tell
> it...I don't read "Rolling Stone" or "SPIN" so I don't know what the
> official record company version is...
I dunno either.
I'm not saying that Ms. Crow is the Ray/Stevie/Prince of the Nineties; but I
do think there's something there. It's not Shakespeare; but it ain't
Spiceworld either. That's all.
> >
> > I love all her jabs at the industry in her lyrics. She sang backup for
> > Michael Jackson in the eighties.
>
> Yippy, she got a gig. I just had the programmer that did Shawn Mullins
> and Collective Soul working on a demo I produced...does that mean he's
> on his way down because he was working on a demo? On the same demo, the
> drummer in Keith Richards new solo band played percussion...does that
> make him on the way down too?
what?
I was saying that she didn't just pop up overnight off a Greyhound bus and
into A&M's offices the next day. Nor do I think she toiled and sweated her
way down LaBrea either. Just that she wasn't a 'Cinderella' plucked for
stardom from a coffee shop.
> > And on her first record she gripes about his (then) manager Frank Dileo;
> > stating 'maybe if I'd have let him, I'd have had a hit song'.
> >
>
> I'm sorry, I don't get what you're saying here...
If her lyrics are to be believed, Delio (Jackson's manager) wanted to sleep
with her in exchange for
getting her a record deal. Oh, the humanity!
>
> > I think the industry (and the voting members of NARAS) reacts positively
to
> > someone who is honest about their music... at least since the Milli
Vanilli
> > incident, and that Jethro Tull, Heavy Metal thing.
> >
>
> I think the industry and the voting members of NARAS react positively to
> sales figures. Being a voting member of NARAS isn't too tough...I've
> been invited to become a voting memeber of NARAS, and if they'll have a
> shitheel like me as a voting member any fuckin' mook can be one. I've
> also been invited to prospect a couple of MC's...which to me would have
> *way* more credibility than being a voting member of NARAS.
Well, the voting body did award Milli Vanilli the Grammy. And they couldn't
do any better that Jethro Tull for a metal band (which label nominated them
for this anyway?) But I do remember 1986's awards where Janet Jackson was
the obvious choice for more than a few awards. But it was Paul Simon who
took the record of the year, or producer of the year (maybe both). Anyway,
every year the show makes less and less sense to me.
NARAS, to me, is the closest thing we have to music folks voting for music
folks. Some years they administer justice; some years they embarass
themselves. But it seems that lately; they've become very 'Vanni-careful'
and award Grammys (especially the best new artist one) with caution.
> Hey, it's wonderful that people like Trina Shomaker are getting the
> recognition they so richly deserve because of the Crow girl...but
> really, have you ever seen her live show? It wasn't pretty. Then
> again, her organization has moved several million more units than my
> organization, so she's right and I'm still a sales weasel...how's that
> for a little fucking perspective...
> --
> Fletcher
> Mercenary Audio
> TEL: 508-543-0069
> FAX: 508-543-9670
> http://www.mercenary.com
I've seen her. I'd take Prince (his mama named him Prince; I call him
Prince) in concert instead- Even though his music of the last ten years
hasn't interested me.
My take on the 'but they've sold x-million units' arguement is this. Shit
may attract millions of flies;
but it's still shit. And it didn't attract me.
My whole reason for replying originally to this thread was that I think
Sheryl makes interesting records. I don't have her posters, belong to her
fan club, or anything like that. I'm just so tired of cut and pasted teen
bands and cookie cutter acts that an occasional, well crafted record is such
a breath of fresh air. I don't want to press the pedal too hard on this.
There's plenty of other good stuff out there as well. But for an act on the
'big five' she's one that comes to mind.
>
-Scott (Warner)
---
'Sunshine Sally and Peter Ustanov don't like the scene anyhow.
I dropped acid on a Saturday night just to see what the fuss was about.
And there goes the neighborhood.'
-Sheryl Crow
Brian Birge
and I constantly use it to reference with. Great songs, great tone. I didn't
even know he was in the TNMC. Toy Matinee is a much better legacy for sure. -
Brian
<kkle...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:81e22q$otr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Jay - Atlanta Digital
atl...@aol.com (Jay - Atlanta Digital) wrote:
> In article <81dk32$p36$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "S. Warner"
> <san...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > someone who is honest about their music... at least since the Milli Vanilli
> > incident,
>
> Well it wasn't as bad as the Milli Vanilli thing, but an interesting
> connection you've made.
> Honesty. That's good.
>
Now that kkle...@my-deja.com has posted the debster link I guess we can
stop being so cryptic about it. If you search around the site you'll find
other tidbits as well. Honesty is not something that I would credit Crow
with. I suppose she has her side to the story as well, but there are so
many people who were involved who are critical, I can't imagine she'd have
anything to say that could win back any respect.
Now before we all get threatened with lawsuits (you know r.a.p. isn't
really a free forum anymore if you believe some people) we should advise
that these are personal opinons based on the facts as we've heard them. I
don't want any fan club groupies fire bombing anybody.
jim andrews
>
> >> A related question - I see a lot of photos of Sheryl Crow
> >> playing bass herself; does she play on any of the album tracks ?
>
I had heard that she wrote the latest album primarily
on bass, and I got the impression she played on at least
some of the tracks.
mg...@earthlink.net
Snip!
"She's one of the few true artists making real music these days. She's
obviously been in the biz for a while. I don't know anyone signed to a
major (A&M at the time) who could make a debut record with Hugh Pagham (I
hope I spelled that right), and then shelve it. To me, that took guts."
It was never her choice. She actually spent some of her own money (or
promised to - she never actually paid that bill to Kevin) trying to keep
it alive. It was after all, an album of her own songs. But it was spun the
opposite way by A&M's publicity department. Do we believe everything we
read nowadays? She was dropped and living at KGs. That she ended up with
that first record (or a record deal at all) was a fluke of fate - Kevin
calling her one night when Bill was complaining about having no women in
the group and Bill wanting to make a solo album but not being ready to
sing yet. Listen to the record he just did with Shelby Lynne when it's
released here - that'll tell you a lot. Or look up the Manchester (UK)
Guardian's review of it. (Somebody find a link to that?)
"I love all her jabs at the industry in her lyrics. She sang backup for
Michael Jackson in the eighties.
And on her first record she gripes about his (then) manager Frank Dileo;
stating 'maybe if I'd have let him, I'd have had a hit song'."
One of the few things we (TNMC) truly regret about that record. Given
Sheryl's behavior once we handed the record in, we learned, too late and
to our everlasting regret, not to take any of her stories as the truth.
And so, whatever Frank Dileo's general state of behavior, nothing we
should have supported her saying. Incidentally, not neccesarily her lyrics
(but that was a wild night and everybody wrote some of that).
"I think the industry (and the voting members of NARAS) reacts positively to
someone who is honest about their music... at least since the Milli Vanilli
incident, and that Jethro Tull, Heavy Metal thing.
-Scott (Warner)"
The entire industry knew the truth about Milli Vanilli long before they
won a grammy, nonetheless happily giving them the best new artist grammy
anyway. It was taken away because the truth came out to the public. Had
that never happened, they would still have it, and would still both be
alive. NARAS raped them. They did their job right - they sold lots of
records. It wasn't their fault somone outed them.
Honesty is a virtue, not found much in the industry, but let's not get all
whistful and romantic about our friend Sheryl. Jeff Trott made a lot of
money on the second record by keeping his mouth shut and the truth about
the songwriting in the closet.
"> JIM - THE FOLLOWING LINK SHOULD GIVE YOU A LITTLE INSIGHT ABOUT MS.
> CROW, THE INDUSTRY'S FEELINGS TOWARD HER, AND THE TUESDAY NIGHT MUSIC
> CLUB. IT IS A GREAT STORY FORM THE SAN FRAN CHRONICLE.
> http://www.thedebster.com/gilbert/secrets.html
>
> -KK"
If this is what I think it is, The SF Chronicle article by Joel Selvin, it
may help to know that in fact the quote attributed to me was never said.
Joel had an agenda to promote and when I defended Sheryl's behavior as
standard aspiring celebrity behavior (i.e. "normal" for the music biz) he
invented a quote to support his idea, not mine. I told him that despite
Sheryl's actions, she was no different from members of TNMC or even Linda
Perry as regards taking credit for everything publicly on their "solo"
records. Of course, "TNMC" wasn't really supossed to be solo SC record,
hence the title, which was us, not her, and the credits and picture
inside. This had even been A&M's plan, a touring "TNMC" cabaret with each
singer taking a spotlight turn. But this would not have put SC in the
spotlight enough for her to be able to justify...well, you get the idea.
And on a positive note:
"Dave- you ever tried the Thomastic-Infeld flatwounds. If not, you should.
Preferably on the P bass, perhaps the Buzz. I love these things. A lot. As a
side benefit, they take many months to even start to think about going dead.
Jon Best
Sales Weasel From Mars"
These are the best strings I have ever used - I have them on about 8
basses now. I might actually be the guy who harassed them into making them
by bugging the designer at every NAMM thingy from 1990 until they came out
with them in 95. I have them with baked beans and spam. Thomastik's
short-scale strings have made at least half my instruments usuable again.
"In article <38377E...@mercenary.com>, Fletcher
<Flet...@mercenary.com> wrote:
> > There are 3 basses on that album. "LLV" and "Strong Enough" were done when
> > SC was first introduced to TNMC by Kevin Gilbert, during 2 weeks in August
> > '92
Crow. Grrrr! I believe this dagger is yours madam?
for those who understand..."
People make too big a deal about all this. The simple truth is two things.
1) Too much money was made from the first album (approx $200 million,
gross). We decided not to play ball on the second, one man at a time (me
first actually!) due to Sheryl's behavior personally. It was strictly
personal, nothing whatever to do with money or credit. We just didn't like
who she proved herself to be the day after the record was turned in, and
for me personally, my daughter was born 6 months before work on the 2nd
record started and I wanted nasty people like that out of my life so I
could concentrate on good things. But - when you say no to making that
much money for a company as big as Polygram they don't like you, and they
have much more "power of the press" than a bunch of musicians and much
more ability to hire libelists who work for major industry trades. Of
course we have lawyers who like to defend us from those libelous attacks,
too. Had Sheryl kept her cool, the spin-'n'-smear campaign would have
worked and everybody would know what a bunch of bitter, greedy, twisted
jerks we are, and what a damsel in distress she was. But she can't stop
talking.
2) She can't stop talking. She appeared to have some bizarre knee-jerk
psychological need to share her increasing unhappiness with her lot in
life, and eventually it just looked stupid and ungracious, whether she
attacked TNMC or members of her own family.
That's about the story folks, straight from the scene of the crime, a tale
of the real .pro part of rec.audio.pro. Sorry to shatter any disillusions.
I must be bored...
DS
Bill Roberts
jim andrews wrote:
> So here's a question for the field: if Sheryl Crow's voice
> is such a debateable instrument, how in the hell did she get
> all those high-profile backing vocal gigs? I'm sure I know
> what the cynics will say . . . I suppose that could work with
> Don Henley, but MICHAEL JACKSON? Surely the gal can sing her
> lines. She's got nothing Michael wants!
Maybe she has a baby brother?
-- Bill
jim andrews
<snnnnnnniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiipppp>
> That's about the story folks, straight from the scene of the crime, a tale
> of the real .pro part of rec.audio.pro. Sorry to shatter any disillusions.
Heh . . . I like that. You might have shattered an illusion
or two, but if you managed to shatter any DISillusions, well
then, more power to ya! I wouldn't worry about your post too
much. You can get it pulled from deja (I don't know the details,
you'd have to email their tech support), and regardless, the
vast majority of even computer-literate folks out there have
no freakin' idea what UseNet is.
So here's a question for the field: if Sheryl Crow's voice
is such a debateable instrument, how in the hell did she get
all those high-profile backing vocal gigs? I'm sure I know
what the cynics will say . . . I suppose that could work with
Don Henley, but MICHAEL JACKSON? Surely the gal can sing her
lines. She's got nothing Michael wants!
jim andrews
basset sound
austin, tejas
carpedonut
>
> > I think the industry and the voting members of NARAS react positively to
> > sales figures. Being a voting member of NARAS isn't too tough...I've
> > been invited to become a voting memeber of NARAS, and if they'll have a
> > shitheel like me as a voting member any fuckin' mook can be one. I've
> > also been invited to prospect a couple of MC's...which to me would have
> > *way* more credibility than being a voting member of NARAS.
>
> Well, the voting body did award Milli Vanilli the Grammy. And they couldn't
> do any better that Jethro Tull for a metal band (which label nominated them
> for this anyway?) But I do remember 1986's awards where Janet Jackson was
> the obvious choice for more than a few awards. But it was Paul Simon who
> took the record of the year, or producer of the year (maybe both). Anyway,
> every year the show makes less and less sense to me.
>
> NARAS, to me, is the closest thing we have to music folks voting for music
> folks. Some years they administer justice; some years they embarass
> themselves. But it seems that lately; they've become very 'Vanni-careful'
> and award Grammys (especially the best new artist one) with caution.
Well, I've always loathed the Grammys, and that's one of the reasons I joined
NARAS, to raise my voice. It's the same thing as bitching about politicians and
not voting. Now I can say, after having voted for the first time, that I DIDN'T
vote for Brittany Spears, or Ricky Martin. I did vote for Richard Thompson, Tom
Petty, Los Lobos, and Tom Waits, among others who put out quality albums over
the last year IMO....
Anyhow, after years of complaining about the winners, now I can complain even
more (and justifiably so) since the people I voted for probably won't win since
they didn't sell as many units as the likely winners. Hell, all I can do is
fight injustice however I can. Anyhow, some of us are still outside the
influence of the corporations, and our own interests--for now at least, we'll
see about my integrity if the big interest ever crosses my path....
Sean
Dave Stannard
resonant frequency (somewhere low-mid) that resulted in a sound not
dissimilar to that my younger brother used to produce with his
Woolworth's Top20 guitar through Dad's HiFi (Sort of a boom/honk, this
was traditionally followed by a kind of slap/ouch).
After I turned it down a little I could follow the bass, but it still
sounded very wrong. I wonder what was up with it?
--
Daver
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chris Smalt wrote:
> I don't know, but she does in concert. The bits I saw on TV sounded pretty
> dead too - she didn't look comfortable playing bass and singing at the same
> time. This reminds me of Paul McCartney live on Jools Holland's show (BBC):
> great vocals - no audible bass guitar.
>
> Chris
Krunkt
>> She got brought in because she was somebodies girlfriend...not for any
>> other reason. They made the record/did the demos, and then took it to
>> A&M [she was under contract still], and they bought the record. At
>> least that's the way the people that actually made the damn thing tell
>> it...I don't read "Rolling Stone" or "SPIN" so I don't know what the
>> official record company version is...
>
This may be the way it sounded.. but it's not the truth. She made a
first record for A&M .. It was rejected and so A&M suggested that Bill
Botrell produce her next attempt. Well.. Bill and his buddies already
had the Tuesday Night Music Club going.. Sheryl came along with a
budget and there were lotsa musicians around looking for a paycheck.
So, the TNMC now became Sheryl's band (only SOME of these
"jammers")... rehearsing and writing songs together. There was lotsa
whiskey and "stuff" around. Sheryl's record was made and it was a big
hit. Some of these people went out with her on the road. They appeared
in videos and such. The TNMC was Bill's idea from the start. It was
already active before Sheryl was even around. Bill actually wanted the
TNMC to have their own label and release records with this wonderful
philosophy of REAL MUSIC being played by "REAL"ly good players. Bill
and Sheryl parted ways soon after she got the idea that the TNMC was
HER idea.
Michael Patterson
not play guitar on the album.
Chris Smalt wrote:
> >> A related question - I see a lot of photos of Sheryl Crow
> >> playing bass herself; does she play on any of the album tracks ?
>
James Johnson
the rest of the guys were involved? After the first album went
kablooey all over the charts, she was marketable as hell;
why would they need to libel you or anyone else?
Just curious. I don't mean to call your veracity into question.
I just don't understand why they would feel the need to slash and
burn.
Jimmy
mg...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> I know I'm gonna regret this...
Snip!
> 1) Too much money was made from the first album (approx $200 million,
hank alrich
> According to articles I read, she played all of the bass on the album and did
> not play guitar on the album.
And of course, there would never be any promo hype in those articles. A
label and managment would never fib even a little to enhance an artist's
publicly perceived reputation, just like there're no silicone tits on
teevee.
> Chris Smalt wrote:
>
> > >> A related question - I see a lot of photos of Sheryl Crow
> > >> playing bass herself; does she play on any of the album tracks ?
> >
> > I don't know, but she does in concert. The bits I saw on TV sounded pretty
> > dead too - she didn't look comfortable playing bass and singing at the same
> > time. This reminds me of Paul McCartney live on Jools Holland's show (BBC):
> > great vocals - no audible bass guitar.
--
Blind Joni
>not play guitar on the album.
>
It's in the liner notes !!!
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Albany, NY
"Survivor of the Slums"
Mark Richardson
ark wrote:
> I've only seen her sing once on TV but I thought she sang like shit...
> maybe it was a bad monitor day...
>
> Al
You know, I could say that about most groups I see on TV, especially SNL (has ANYONE ever
sounded good on SNL?)-Mark
mg...@earthlink.net
In article <383C6472...@home.com>, James Johnson
<jjohn...@home.com> wrote:
> I don't quite understand; why would the label care if you or
> the rest of the guys were involved? After the first album went
> kablooey all over the charts, she was marketable as hell;
> why would they need to libel you or anyone else?
>
> Just curious. I don't mean to call your veracity into question.
> I just don't understand why they would feel the need to slash and
> burn.
>
> Jimmy
You're naive about how the business of making money works. Needless to
say, so was I. And even Bill didn't quite realize how far they'd go, and
he had produced Michael Jackson, the King of Spin.
It was done in order to promote the myth that it was Sheryl's choice not
to work with us. There was (and is) a fear that because of all her bitter
psychoblather she had made herself a target for critics (they were right)
and they would be suspicious if she didn't work with the proven succesful
team again (right again).
It doesn't do for a succesful pop star to say, "Well, I called Dan to come
write and play but he wouldn't return my phone calls so I started
insulting him in all my interviews just to show him who's bigger than
who." Or how about this: "Bill tried 3 times over 45 days to start the 2nd
album with me but I was so bitter and nasty to him that he threw me out of
his studio 3 times, so instead I made up a story about him having a
nervous breakdown on the first day, even though I owe him a lot of money
for all those weeks of work."
That fear for her image continues. The attacks on us came primarily in
Billboard before and during the heavy promo of the 2nd record. On the
release of the 3rd the LA Times ran a little thing headlined " Sheryl Crow
not a one-hit wonder" and it was a little blurb with A&M head Al Cafaro
containing all kinds of false numbers to create the spin that the 2nd
album had done nearly as well as the first, i.e. vindication of Sheryl's
sheer artistic brilliance. But the numbers don't lie - poeple do. So the
numbers in the article had to be spun to tell the "truth" that A&M wanted
told.
After one little slam on us in the local paper while promoting her 2nd
record I called the music writer who wrote it and asked him why he had
written lies about us, and why he didn't even bother talking to any of us
to see if maybe there was another side to the story - I mean, he was a
reporter after all. He replied that the head of pubilicity at A&M was a
good friend of his and it would never occur to him to question what she
fed him. I have mentioned this to other writers at the Times and generally
the response is that the "entertainment" section of the paper is there for
just that - entertainment business promo. If I want truth I should talk to
the actual business section writers.
Remember: "The Business of America is Business." And then there's "What's
good for A&M is good for America." Multinationally speaking, of course.
Having said all that, I followed the link to the Selvin article and read
it again, and I just want you guys who read it to recognize that there is
press bullshit on both sides. Selvin was out to get Sheryl, and if that
meant dragging Kevin's personal tragedies into public view (in the guise
of defending him, of course) then that's just fine. When I didn't help him
with that (he remarked that he was surprised that I seemed not angry at
Sheryl at all - I told him I was only angry at myself for falling for the
bullshit) then he would just invent something that suggested I did and let
me prove otherwise.
So A&M had the L.A. Times doing their "Happy Talk" reportinfg got them,
and their hired guns at Billboard. On our side we had no one, except
pundits with their own ax to grind. The closest to the truth was a Rolling
stone cover article at the time of the 2nd record's release. And maybe
something in Mojo, if
I recall. I did some email with that guy to straighten out some of the
lies being told about the creation of "LLV." (To cut this one short: Yes,
we all knew about the book, it was sitting in Toad Hall througout the
making of "TNMC.")
Enough yet?
DS
M
Mark Richardson wrote in message <383C9B5B...@bellsouth.net>...
>You know, I could say that about most groups I see on TV, especially SNL
(has ANYONE ever
>sounded good on SNL?)-Mark
>
Kiss.
M
M
hank alrich wrote:
>there're no silicone tits on
>teevee.
What is a tv?
M
James Johnson
surmised as much. What a sordid tale. Somehow the whole
thing resonates oddly, like some modern-day Greek tragedy.
Most music-biz stories just seem silly from this side of
the glass, but the TNMC thing just has this weird resonance
to it...
You're the bass player? There was some great playing on that
album, on everybody's part. Tasty and, tasteful.
Jimmy
mg...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> See? I knew I was gonna regret this...
>
snip...
dave
the fact that he paid more attention to his monitor mix than the FOH
mix...
go figure.
dave
Mark Richardson wrote:
>
> ark wrote:
>
> > I've only seen her sing once on TV but I thought she sang like shit...
> > maybe it was a bad monitor day...
> >
> > Al
>
Mark Drews
enlightened writers ever worked with SC
on anything- tour, record, etc.? Do you personally know any of her band
members or crew? This all seems to sound
like something you maybe read somewhere or perhaps heard in a tincan at the
end of a string.........
-**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-
Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser - FREE -
jim andrews
>
> What's with all this ragging on SC? Just out of curiousity, have any of you
> enlightened writers ever worked with SC
>
> on anything- tour, record, etc.? Do you personally know any of her band
> members or crew? This all seems to sound
>
> like something you maybe read somewhere or perhaps heard in a tincan at the
> end of a string.........
Whoops . . . don't look now, Mark, but that wasn't
a very smart thing to say. The answer is "yes".
Mixerman
"mgod" WAS in her band and recorded all the bass parts on her first hit
album. I personally know a great deal of people that have been through her
camp, and I've had some first hand experience with her lack of character
myself...but I'm staying out of this one.
Mixerman
Mark Drews wrote in message <1Sg%3.908$B5.479099@WReNphoon3>...
>What's with all this ragging on SC? Just out of curiousity, have any of you
>enlightened writers ever worked with SC
>on anything- tour, record, etc.? Do you personally know any of her band
>members or crew? This all seems to sound
>like something you maybe read somewhere or perhaps heard in a tincan at the
>end of a string.........
>
>
>
hank alrich
> What's with all this ragging on SC? Just out of curiousity, have any of you
> enlightened writers ever worked with SC
> on anything- tour, record, etc.? Do you personally know any of her band
> members or crew? This all seems to sound
> like something you maybe read somewhere or perhaps heard in a tincan at the
> end of a string.........
Better drag your reader around through this thread a little more. Does
the name "Dan Schwartz" ring a bell? Like the man who played the bass
parts on TNMC?
Nobody is obligated to like anybody else's music.
Fletcher
>
> Err....Mark. Any posts in this thread written by a guy going by the handle
> "mgod" WAS in her band and recorded all the bass parts on her first hit
> album. I personally know a great deal of people that have been through her
> camp, and I've had some first hand experience with her lack of character
> myself...but I'm staying out of this one.
Gee...I wonder if she's going to make the next record at Soup
Kitchen...it seems like such a perfect fit!!
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"
mg...@earthlink.net
<Flet...@mercenary.com> wrote:
>but
> really, have you ever seen her live show? It wasn't pretty. Then
> again, her organization has moved several million more units than my
> organization, so she's right and I'm still a sales weasel...how's that
> for a little fucking perspective...
> --
> Fletcher
Your so fucking eloquent.
DS
mg...@earthlink.net
walk...@thegrid.net (hank alrich) wrote:
> Mark Drews <mark....@kf.his.no> wrote:
>
> > What's with all this ragging on SC? Just out of curiousity, have any of you
> > enlightened writers ever worked with SC
> > on anything- tour, record, etc.? Do you personally know any of her band
> > members or crew? This all seems to sound
> > like something you maybe read somewhere or perhaps heard in a tincan at the
> > end of a string.........
>
> Better drag your reader around through this thread a little more. Does
> the name "Dan Schwartz" ring a bell? Like the man who played the bass
> parts on TNMC?
Hey man! I also wrote some of the damn songs! That's the dough I've been
feeding my family with, not the bass playing money. "No One Said It Would
Be Easy" is about my impending marriage (1/1/94 at Bill's house) and SC's
impending breakup from KG. Music written as an improvisation to rolling
tape whilst playing a Guild M-75 electric guitar miked (not plugged in)
with a KM-54 on it, still right up there left of center. Total cop from my
hero, Martin Carthy, the english folk singer. If you see the TNMC
songbook, ignore the tuning in there - it'll break yer fingers. You can
play the whole song with one finger. Or I couldn't have played it.
"We Do What We Can" was me and Bill tricking SC into talking about her
father while taping the conversation without her knowledge, as a way of
distracting her from an abysmal content-free thing she brought into us
called "Flying Over Egypt," which was in the style of everything on the
Hugh Padgham album, quasi-newage-mystical formless ramblings over
jazzy-ethnoid changes.
Then there's some B-sides and the original version of "All I Wanna Do,"
which was a little tune in the style of "Got To Give It Up" called "I
Still Love You." But when SC couldn't write any lyrics, Bill chucked the
little red book of Wyn Cooper's poetry at her and told her to sing the
page he bookmarked. The rest is Hysteria.
But thanks for thinking of me.
DS
mg...@earthlink.net
Not true. You're either full of shit or you've been lied to.
TNMC was five people - me, Bill, Kevin, Brian MacLeod and Baerwald. None
of us went on the road with her, except for Bill for a couple of
high-profile TV things, to protect his interest in his work, but he
withdrew from that when Sheryl pulled star shit on him. None of us are in
any videos.
"LLV" and "Strong Enough" were recorded after Sheryl was dropped, A&M
making the decision to shelve her record after spending $400,000 with Hugh
Padgham.
After some deliberation with me on the ethics of it (and I was no help in
that regard - I knew it was a quesitonable act but I also knew I liked
what we did together too much to not continue to be a part of it), Bill
handed in the two songs to Anderle and Cafaro and pitched the idea of a
faux-singer/songwriter act. They gave him $200,000 to complete a record,
because they were so skeptical of her talent. Bill spent almost $150,000
of his own money. As one of the people "looking for a paycheck," I got
paid a single-session double-scale fee each time a track I did ended up on
the record.I made $6000 in fees in 9 months, even though afterwards Bill
commented that I had more to do with the making of that record than anyone
but him. It was a musical labor of love for some of us. Some of us.
I was there. Who the hell are you? Fletcher absolutely knows more of the
truth of this than you do, unless you know you're lying.
So tell us who you are.
DS
JL
and enlightening. Anyone who has been in a band, even if it's not the big
leagues, can relate to this (I know I can). It's always a sticky mess when
you start out to do something fun and creative, and end up fighting over who
did what, and who contributed what, and who owns what, etc.
I would think, though, that in this situation (seeing as your all big league
pros), there must have been some formal agreement in the beginning, as to
who owned the tapes. If it was Bill Bottrell's band, how would Sheryl be
able to take the tapes as her own, unless that was the deal in the first
place. Who paid for the tapes, if Sheryl didn't have a deal at the time, and
at what point did she get one? Was there a contract between you all? Also,
wasn't it a long time before the album broke? Did Sheryl's attitude change
when the album was turned in, or when it broke? If the record company wanted
you all to go out on tour, with each of you singing, were there a lot of
songs created that never were released, or that she resung? And certainly,
you all must have thought she was pretty talented in the beginning, she's
not THAT good looking!
BTW, I've heard some of the first original Hugh Pagdham (sp?) album, and
it's actually not as bad as it was made out to be (certainly not as bad as
Alanis' early stuff). They both seem to be a bit phony, but I guess that's
show biz. It's hard to take Sheryl seriously when you see those pictures of
her singing backup for Michael Jackson (her wig is ridiculous!)
Lastly, I just got some Rotosound Tru Bass black nylon flatwound strings,
and I'm about to try them out. What do you think of those?
Thanks again, for the glimpse behind the curtain (you should write a book!).
JL
<mg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mgod-23119...@pool0681.cvx23-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net...
Blind Joni
tasty lookin' legs !!!
Jay - Atlanta Digital
blin...@aol.com (Blind Joni) wrote:
> All I know is that the one multiple photo of her in Playboy showed some pretty
> tasty lookin' legs !!!
>
Now *that* sells records!
-Jay Frigoletto
Atlanta Digital
www.promastering.com
JL
enough to respond privately, and so here is his response:
>
>I would think, though, that in this situation (seeing as your all big
league
>pros), there must have been some formal agreement in the beginning, as to
>who owned the tapes.
All TNMC tapes belong to Bill, who paid for them, except the tapes of the
specific songs which formally went on the album or B-sides, which A&M paid
for by hiring Bill as producer. All outtakes are Bill's.
If it was Bill Bottrell's band, how would Sheryl be
>able to take the tapes as her own, unless that was the deal in the first
>place. Who paid for the tapes, if Sheryl didn't have a deal at the time,
and
>at what point did she get one?
When A&M gave Bill the $200,000 to start new after hearing "LLV" and
"Strong Enough." (See later posting).
Was there a contract between you all?
No.
Also,
>wasn't it a long time before the album broke? Did Sheryl's attitude change
>when the album was turned in, or when it broke?
The day after Bill delivered the 1" mixes to A&M. However, I didn't know
about it until mid-July.
If the record company wanted
>you all to go out on tour, with each of you singing, were there a lot of
>songs created that never were released, or that she resung?
There's the whole Baerwald album "Triage," a good part of Kevin Gilbert's
"Thud," lots of Bottrell songs. Bill may put some of this stuff out in very
rough form in the next year.
And certainly,
>you all must have thought she was pretty talented in the beginning, she's
>not THAT good looking!
No, but that wasn't the issue. Bill wanted a girl around, and with lots of
work on his part, as well as plenty of alcohol and cigs, he could get her
to sing how he wanted, as opposed to her normal way of singing. And he knew
that if he could keep her singing that way he could make a great pop album.
What he didn't know was that the minute she hit the road she'd forget all
about it.
>
>BTW, I've heard some of the first original Hugh Pagdham (sp?) album,
Wow! Where? Can you get me a copy? Kevin had one but he's gone.
and
>it's actually not as bad as it was made out to be (certainly not as bad as
>Alanis' early stuff). They both seem to be a bit phony, but I guess that's
>show biz. It's hard to take Sheryl seriously when you see those pictures
of
>her singing backup for Michael Jackson (her wig is ridiculous!)
Well, taste is taste, and it's digustibus non desputadem. I was not allowed
to hear that first thing of hers until ours was handed in. I was horrified
at the magnitude of the fraud we'd commited - I fell for my own crap, but I
didn't realize just how big a pile of crap it was. Bill knew that hearing
her own music would wig me out so he made sure to keep the truth from me.
>
>Lastly, I just got some Rotosound Tru Bass black nylon flatwound strings,
>and I'm about to try them out. What do you think of those?
Not much.
>
>Thanks again, for the glimpse behind the curtain (you should write a
book!).
No thank you.
nothing is real...
JL <lew...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B7m%3.984$l_6....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
Jeff Mutschler
I've been following all of this silently for so long... I'm so sorry... I'm was
almost in tears, but maybe a touch too jaded and bitter to let it break me down
completely... Reading the 'Chronicle article, and then putting all of the pieces
together... Yeesh... I don't wanna bum you guys out, but I've been there as well...
The names are different, I'm in Austin, but that's pretty much the kind of stuff
that people do when they have a private agenda.
Write about it. You must. You have to tell the truth, for what it is, not to hurt
someone, but because it's the truth. I'll buy the album...
Now, I want to track down a copy of Gilberts "Thud" album... I've got to know what
was going on there... Any thoughts there? Who released it?
Jeez, but flat wound bass strings are much more dangerous than I previously
thought...
Originally, all I was looking for was a bigger used console... Technical issues, you
know...
I should be writing...
And I'm going to remember this.
Shane King
could hear the story from the people who were actually there. She really
isn't a very nice person, is she?
--
Shane King
Now available, the first album from RedGreenBlue, 'Red'. Electroambientprogressive music at it's best!
rgb at shaneking dot com
Mojo Haiku
>could hear the story from the people who were actually there.
Except, of course, from Sheryl Crow herself...
kkle...@my-deja.com
Second of all I could not find a quote attributed to you in the SF
Chronicle article, did I just miss it? I am a hardcore fan of Kevin
Gilbert's music. In conversations with other fans of his, Sheryl
bashing is quite common. Is it justified? It is great to hear some of
this info from someone who was there. Second, Kevin Gilbert's rock
opera "Shaming of the True" is supposed to be released within the next
week. I know you worked on "Thud" with him. Did you help with "Shaming"
at all? And Third, I have a cdr of the unreleased Sheryl Crow cd in
it's entirety, which it is my understanding that Kevin produced and
mixed it. It is safe to say that if it was her first cd released, there
might not have been a second. It is pretty lightweight stuff, not
unlike Amy Grant, in my opinion. If you want a copy, we will need to
figure out a way to hook up. Take it easy.
-Ken
In article <p4E%3.655$PH5....@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
mg...@earthlink.net
<Jeff_Mu...@mmediausa.com> wrote:
> Wow.
>
> I've been following all of this silently for so long... I'm so sorry...
I'm was
> almost in tears, but maybe a touch too jaded and bitter to let it break
me down
> completely... Reading the 'Chronicle article, and then putting all of
the pieces
> together... Yeesh... I don't wanna bum you guys out, but I've been there
as well...
> The names are different, I'm in Austin, but that's pretty much the kind
of stuff
> that people do when they have a private agenda.
Like I said before, don't take that Chronicle article too seriously. It
paints a far worse picture than the reality, just to sell papers. Very
tabloid of Selvin to do that. Most of the "quotes" are made up including
my alleged quote.
>
>
> Now, I want to track down a copy of Gilberts "Thud" album... I've got to
know what
> was going on there... Any thoughts there? Who released it?
Kevin worked on "Thud" for years. At one point me and Bill mixed it at
Andorra to my 1". (I still have some of those - some of you guys heard
them at SF AES). But Kevin sweated over it and worked it for a long time.
It had nothing whatever to do with Sheryl. PRA released it, which was the
private label of Kevin's then manager.
>
> Jeez, but flat wound bass strings are much more dangerous than I previously
> thought...
Deadly at 10 paces. But there are no flatwounds on either record.
>
> Originally, all I was looking for was a bigger used console... Technical
issues, you
> know...
That's fuuny - I'm looking for a smaller one...
DS
kkle...@my-deja.com
I could not find a quote attributed to you in that SF Chronicle
article, did I just miss it? I am a hardcore fan of Kevin Gilbert's
music. In conversations with other fans of his, Sheryl bashing is quite
sound like Bearwald and Bottrel were pretty pissed about Sheryl's
Letterman snafu. Kevin even wrote a song about it, "Leaving Miss
Broadway", which you may have heard. It is great to hear some of this
info from someone who was there.
Kevin Gilbert's rock opera "Shaming of the True" is supposed to be
with him. Did you help with "Shaming" at all?
I have a cdr of that unreleased Sheryl Crow cd in it's entirety, which
it is my understanding that Kevin produced and mixed it. It is safe to
say that if it was her first cd released, there might not have been a
second. It is pretty lightweight stuff, not unlike Amy Grant, in my
opinion. If you want a copy, we will need to figure out a way to hook
up. Take it easy.
In article <mgod-27119...@pool0246.cvx23-
bradley.dialup.earthlink.net>,
Jay - Atlanta Digital
> Kevin Gilbert's rock
> opera "Shaming of the True" is supposed to be released within the next
> week. I know you worked on "Thud" with him. Did you help with "Shaming"
> at all?
Ground breaking record. Desert island material to be sure. I can't say
enough about this album. Not for the faint of heart, so true, so musical,
sounds so good, fabulous production. DAMN!
So who's finally releasing it? I'll be standing in line to get a (legit)
copy - actually, probably several copies before it disappears into
obscurity. There's web page with the credits and lyrics. Can't remember
it at the moment, but do a search, it'll come up.
Everybody buy this record when it comes out! And you guys know, I don't
get this riled up for nothing.
Jay - Atlanta Digital
> Kevin Gilbert's rock opera "Shaming of the True" is supposed to be
> officially released within the next week. I know you worked on "Thud"
> with him. Did you help with "Shaming" at all?
**This reply copied from another Crow thread derivative where
kkle...@my-deja.com posted the same comment/question.**
kkle...@my-deja.com
www.kevingilbert.com, and is scheduled for release on Dec. 1. His
family has been working with Jon Rubin to handle his postumous
releases. They created the KMG label. Last month, they released a
compilation of the two Giraffe cds, and also a Kevin Gilbert Live cd
from the Troubador. Supposedly, "KAVIAR" will be released
after "Shaming", and there is still a lot of other stuff that Kev
recorded, but never released that may see the light of day. "Shaming of
the True" is indeed one of the best records ever made, PERIOD.
GET IT.
-kk
Jay - Atlanta Digital
> Kevin Gilbert's "Shaming of the True" will only be available through
> www.kevingilbert.com, and is scheduled for release on Dec. 1. His
> family has been working with Jon Rubin to handle his postumous
> releases. They created the KMG label. Last month, they released a
> compilation of the two Giraffe cds, and also a Kevin Gilbert Live cd
> from the Troubador. Supposedly, "KAVIAR" will be released
> after "Shaming", and there is still a lot of other stuff that Kev
> recorded, but never released that may see the light of day. "Shaming of
> the True" is indeed one of the best records ever made, PERIOD.
> GET IT.
> -kk
>
Is the Giraffe stuff any good? I'm interested in hearing whatever KG
stuff I can, but I'd apreciate a warning if I'm going to be disappointed.
jim andrews
> Is the Giraffe stuff any good? I'm interested in hearing whatever KG
> stuff I can, but I'd apreciate a warning if I'm going to be disappointed.
I think it's kinda long. Others have described it
as a tall drink of water. I think it's over their
heads.
<God, sometimes I kill myself>
John La Grou
Digital) wrote:
>In article <81oqia$4f8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, kkle...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> Kevin Gilbert's rock
>> opera "Shaming of the True" is supposed to be released within the next
>> week. I know you worked on "Thud" with him. Did you help with "Shaming"
>> at all?
>
>Ground breaking record. Desert island material to be sure. I can't say
>enough about this album. Not for the faint of heart, so true, so musical,
>sounds so good, fabulous production. DAMN!
>So who's finally releasing it? I'll be standing in line to get a (legit)
>copy - actually, probably several copies before it disappears into
>obscurity. There's web page with the credits and lyrics. Can't remember
>it at the moment, but do a search, it'll come up.
>
>Everybody buy this record when it comes out! And you guys know, I don't
>get this riled up for nothing.
>
>-Jay Frigoletto
>Atlanta Digital
>www.promastering.com
This is one of the most cohesive works of rock musical brilliance I've
ever heard. Yes, dark -- way dark at times. If you're easily offended,
avoid this record. Kevin and I talked at times while he was tracking
it; he would send me ideas on DAT and explained the vision for it as a
rock opera. Something like Genesis would have done to eclipse Lamb
Lies Down on Broadway -- with elements of Gentle Giant and many other
influences, yet exceptionally unique and creative. No surpise Kevin
did a live cover of Lamb around this time. (I don't think he ever
believed me when I told him I could cover Rutherford's bass and
12-string parts for his show..)
"Shaming" is a story about Johnny Virgil, a talented musician who
wants to make records, moves to L.A., gets signed by a label, falls
into the underside of the entertainment culture, burns out, crashes.
The freight train horn which morphs into "Sound of Many Waters" (for
lack of a better descriptor) tells me that Johnny Virgil dies at the
end. In a way, both autobiographic and prophetic.
I understand that the estate will release the record with an elaborate
packing box (leather?) and fine artwork. This version might be a
limited edition. Kevin never had a chance to do a release mix on this
record. After his death, the estate hired John Cuniberti (Joe
Satriani, etc..) to mix the raw tracks. Maybe Dan Schwartz could fill
us in a little more here. I've heard that Kevin played almost all
instruments on this record, did all vocals, and engineered virtually
all of it by himself.
JL @ Millennia
johnl...@my-deja.com
<atldigi-2811...@user-38ldmpl.dialup.mindspring.com>,
>
> > Kevin Gilbert's rock opera "Shaming of the True" is supposed to be
"Thud"
> > with him. Did you help with "Shaming" at all?
>
> kkle...@my-deja.com posted the same comment/question.**
>
say
> enough about this album. Not for the faint of heart, so true, so
musical,
> sounds so good, fabulous production. DAMN!
> So who's finally releasing it? I'll be standing in line to get a
(legit)
> copy - actually, probably several copies before it disappears into
> obscurity. There's web page with the credits and lyrics. Can't
remember
> it at the moment, but do a search, it'll come up.
>
> Everybody buy this record when it comes out! And you guys know, I
don't
> get this riled up for nothing.
>
> -Jay Frigoletto
> Atlanta Digital
> www.promastering.com
(resent via deja.com)
This is one of the most cohesive works of rock musical brilliance I've
ever heard. Yes, sometimes dark -- way dark at times. If you're easily
offended, avoid this record. Kevin and I talked at times while he was
tracking it; he would send me ideas on DAT and explained the vision for
it as a rock opera. Something like Genesis would have done to follow
'Lamb Lies Down on Broadway' -- with elements of Gentle Giant and many
other influences, yet exceptionally unique and creative. No surpise
Kevin did a live cover of 'Lamb' around this time. (I don't think he
ever believed me when I told him I could cover Rutherford's bass and
12-string parts for his show..).
"Shaming" is a story about Johnny Virgil, a talented musician who wants
to make records, moves to L.A., gets signed by a label, falls into the
underside of the entertainment culture, burns out, crashes. The freight
train horn which morphs into 'Sound of Many Waters' (for lack of a
better descriptor) tells me that Johnny Virgil dies at the end. In a
way, both autobiographic and prophetic.
I understand that the estate will release the record with an elaborate
packing box (leather?) and fine artwork. This version might be a limited
edition. Kevin never had a chance to do a release mix on this record.
After his death, the estate hired John Cuniberti (Joe Satriani, etc..)
to mix the raw tracks. Maybe Dan Schwartz could fill us in a little more
here. I've heard that Kevin played almost all instruments on this
record, did all vocals, and engineered virtually all of it by himself.
John La Grou,
Millennia Music & Media Systems
http://www.mil-media.com
kkle...@my-deja.com
38ldi7n.dialup.mindspring.com>,
>
> > Kevin Gilbert's "Shaming of the True" will only be available through
> > www.kevingilbert.com, and is scheduled for release on Dec. 1. His
> > family has been working with Jon Rubin to handle his postumous
> > releases. They created the KMG label. Last month, they released a
> > compilation of the two Giraffe cds, and also a Kevin Gilbert Live cd
> > from the Troubador. Supposedly, "KAVIAR" will be released
> > after "Shaming", and there is still a lot of other stuff that Kev
> > recorded, but never released that may see the light of
day. "Shaming of
> > the True" is indeed one of the best records ever made, PERIOD.
> > GET IT.
> > -kk
> >
>
> stuff I can, but I'd apreciate a warning if I'm going to be
disappointed.
>
In my opinion, the Giraffe stuff is great. All of the songwriting is
solid as you would expect. Some of the music is very proggy and
complex, while the worst of it sounds pretty "poppy", a lot like "Level
42" did during the 80's. Just so you know what to expect. It is still a
must have for any Kevin Gilbert fan, because some of the songs
on "Thud" and "Shaming" were first done by Giraffe and NRG (Kev's band
before Giraffe), so it is cool to hear how the songs evolved into what
they are now.
-kk
Jay - Atlanta Digital
> The freight
> train horn which morphs into 'Sound of Many Waters' (for lack of a
> better descriptor) tells me that Johnny Virgil dies at the end. In a
> way, both autobiographic and prophetic.
>
There is one line that says "advice for the living from the dead" that
gave me a shiver when I first heard it. There are many things on the
album that seem both autobiographic and prophetic, and a character named
Sheryl that's put in a not so favorable light. I wonder if the choice of
names was deliberate and significant. Lots of thought on that record.
mg...@earthlink.net
> DS- First of all, it is very cool to be on the same thread as you.
Cut it out.
> Second of all I could not find a quote attributed to you in the SF
> Chronicle article, did I just miss it?
Yes.
I am a hardcore fan of Kevin
> Gilbert's music. In conversations with other fans of his, Sheryl
> bashing is quite common. Is it justified?
I don't know - how do you justify what goes on between two people breaking
up? After the delivery of the tapes I became aware of all kinds of shit
going on. For one thing, I made it my job at no one's invitation to defend
Sheryl and Kevin from Baerwald, owing to my own take on Baerwald at the
time. But these were two world-class manipulators of people and the facts,
and neither needed my help, neither could even use my help and it only
resulted in them insulting me in the liner notes. Sheryl was probably an
assholeto Kevin towards the end - Kevin for sure played serious mind games
with her ("This isn't your record - it's our record." That kind of shit)
So it's all who's side you're on. Mostly I'm on Bill's. Mostly. But there
are 6 sides. Mine was simply the most ill-informed. I'm willfully stupid
that way. I prefer to think that people in general are what they show you
they are, even though it's very rarely true. I know that but I still won't
function any other way.
Second, Kevin Gilbert's rock
> opera "Shaming of the True" is supposed to be released within the next
> week. I know you worked on "Thud" with him. Did you help with "Shaming"
> at all?
No. But there are other people, probably the only TNMC guy would be Brian.
Nick deVirgilio absolutely. Even though in our wasted youth we were prog
fans (I moved to California to join my brother's prog band) Bill and me
would always get into wrangles with Kevin over his insistence on
justifying it.
And Third, I have a cdr of the unreleased Sheryl Crow cd in
> it's entirety, which it is my understanding that Kevin produced and
> mixed it.
Kevin played me his copy, which was his mix, but not prodcution. That was
Padgham's. Sheryl convinced A&M to give it one more shot and so hired
Kevin mix it at her insistence, but they still rejected it and never payed
him, and he expected Sheryl to make good on that, which she disagreed
with.
DS
mg...@earthlink.net
Answered most of this already. I am a hardcore fan of Kevin Gilbert's
> music. In conversations with other fans of his, Sheryl bashing is quite
> common. Is any of it justified? Other stories that I have read make it
> sound like Bearwald and Bottrel were pretty pissed about Sheryl's
> Letterman snafu. Kevin even wrote a song about it, "Leaving Miss
> Broadway", which you may have heard. It is great to hear some of this
> info from someone who was there.
I was doing a major cleaning yesterday and found this batch of Polaroids
from my birthday party in '92 - pretty weird to find them with all these
questions going on right now. We're all there, even Kevin and Sheryl as
"the happy couple." Which they well might have been then.
Anyway, only Baerwald was really pissed off about the Letterman thing, and
when "LLV -the Movie" became a big hit decided to go public with his
grievance, I think as a way of creating an association with it (since he
had nothing to say in the previous year about it.) It was nobody's
business, nobody would have or should have cared, i.e. not for the public.
David needed to make it that way and that started a public battle of
truth-spinning. When Joel Selvin went to A&M Diana Baron, the head of PR,
showed him a tape of the show and tried to insist that Sheryl never made
the claim, she just agreed to Letterman's question. In other words, by
overreacting out of some kind of "Omigawd -we gotta do same damage
control," which was A&M's M-O throughout all this, they just made it
worse.
Now isn't this all REALLY stupid? I mean, who gives a shit? Does anybody
really need to think about this? I guarantee Bill didn't. Sheryl was being
interviewd on TV for the first time in her life and froze up. Big deal.
DS
mg...@earthlink.net
heard Linda Perry's "In Flight?" It's an album TNMC did for her for
Interscope. They deliberately buried it (shades of Arthur C Clarke.) BUT.
I think that it's Kevin's best work as a musician. He's amazing on it.
DS
kkle...@my-deja.com
people saying how good the Linda Perry cd was, I finally ordered it 3
days ago. I haven't received it yet, but this latest recommendation has
me really looking forward to it.
Along the same lines, has anyone ever heard the Susanna Hoffs self
titled cd from '96? (You don't have to answer that, Dan, I know you're
on it) A similar circumstance for me. I was never a big fan of the
Bangles, but after seeing all of the people that helped out on Hoffs'
solo record, I gave it a try. It is very solid throughout, in my
opinion. Dan, Kevin Gilbert, Bill Botrell, Linda Perry....are all on
it. Jason Falkner (another talented artist, IMO) plays quite a bit on
it. David Baerwald seems to have had a lot to do with it, including
some of the songwriting.
Dan - Why would a company "deliberately bury" a release? I always
thought "Thud" could have done better as well.
In article <mgod-29119...@pool1007.cvx23-
bradley.dialup.earthlink.net>,
jim andrews
>
> As long as we're all in a Kevin Gilbert worship mode, have any of you
> heard Linda Perry's "In Flight?" It's an album TNMC did for her for
> Interscope. They deliberately buried it (shades of Arthur C Clarke.) BUT.
> I think that it's Kevin's best work as a musician. He's amazing on it.
Does Linda Perry contribute anything of worth on it? I find
it EXTREMELY hard to believe that anyone in that piece of shit
band she was in has a shred of talent.
jim andrews (while we're all being honest and all)
basset sound
austin, tejas
Jay - Atlanta Digital
<mgod-29119...@pool1007.cvx23-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net>,
mg...@earthlink.net wrote:
> As long as we're all in a Kevin Gilbert worship mode, have any of you
> heard Linda Perry's "In Flight?" It's an album TNMC did for her for
> Interscope. They deliberately buried it (shades of Arthur C Clarke.) BUT.
> I think that it's Kevin's best work as a musician. He's amazing on it.
>
> DS
Good tip, thanks. Anybody know where I can get a copy to check out?
Jay - Atlanta Digital
> I have never been too crazy about "4 Non Blondes", but after many
> people saying how good the Linda Perry cd was, I finally ordered it 3
> days ago. I haven't received it yet, but this latest recommendation has
> me really looking forward to it.
I thought when he said they buried it that it was out of print already.
It's still around? I'd take the risk and drop the bucks just to see what
it's like.
kkle...@my-deja.com
38ldnph.dialup.mindspring.com>,
Actually, I found it on eBay. Got it for under 6 bucks. Don't know if
any are there now, though.
-kk
mg...@earthlink.net
<jand...@activepower.com> wrote:
> mg...@earthlink.net wrote:
> >
> > As long as we're all in a Kevin Gilbert worship mode, have any of you
> > heard Linda Perry's "In Flight?" It's an album TNMC did for her for
> > Interscope. They deliberately buried it (shades of Arthur C Clarke.) BUT.
> > I think that it's Kevin's best work as a musician. He's amazing on it.
>
>
> Does Linda Perry contribute anything of worth on it? I find
> it EXTREMELY hard to believe that anyone in that piece of shit
> band she was in has a shred of talent.
>
> jim andrews (while we're all being honest and all)
> basset sound
> austin, tejas
Yes she does. She's great. We ended up nicknaming her the "Anti-Sheryl."
And we went and played some shows live with whihi were among the best live
things I've ever done (along with some late 80's shows with Eno/Hassell in
NYC).
Not the world's best songwriter but a good one (but then the best are
Lennon and Dylan). Interscope wanted us to Sheryl-ize her, i.e. substitute
our writing for hers, but Linda's a real person with real musical
ambition, not just a drive to be a star. So we put our efforts behind her
agenda to make a substantial record. She knew she'd nover come up with
another "What's Up?" That was a fluke in her writing. So she ended up in a
battle of wills with her A&R guy - now the head of a whole bunch of labels
in the great Seagrams buyout. And we were all punished for supporting her
by the label completely abandoning the record domestically - not 1¢ for
promotion in the US. She ended up paying for her own tour and calling
radio stations herself. Lot to go through after selling 5,000,000 records
for Jimmy Iovine.
And check out the mastering by Joe Gastwirt. It just supports my view that
Joe is the best there is at digital. Makes sense - he hates it, so ogive
him a good record and he works very hard to overcome it's limitations. On
the last track Linda's voice floats in my room and practically sounds
analog. And it was masteerd straight up to 0 with no hard digital
comperssion. So it ends up being a record you have to turn up relative to
what most other people do, but the payoff is amazing.
DS
jim andrews
bradley.dialup.earthlink.net>, mg...@earthlink.net says...
<re: Linda Perry of 4 Non Blondes fame>
> She knew she'd nover come up with
> another "What's Up?" That was a fluke in her writing.
Well, if it was a fluke, I'll take your word for it. There have
been fewer songs in the last couple of decades that I hated more
than that one.
kkle...@my-deja.com
DAN -
The lineup on Susanna Hoffs' cd from '96 is similar to the one on the
Perry cd. Was it also considered a TNMC "side project", and can we
expect any more in the future? (with the remaining members) It seems
like you guys bring out the best in artists when you all get together.
Just curious.
-kk
mg...@earthlink.net
> Along the same lines, has anyone ever heard the Susanna Hoffs self
> titled cd from '96? (You don't have to answer that, Dan, I know you're
> on it) A similar circumstance for me. I was never a big fan of the
> Bangles, but after seeing all of the people that helped out on Hoffs'
> solo record, I gave it a try. It is very solid throughout, in my
> opinion. Dan, Kevin Gilbert, Bill Botrell, Linda Perry....are all on
> it. Jason Falkner (another talented artist, IMO) plays quite a bit on
> it. David Baerwald seems to have had a lot to do with it, including
> some of the songwriting.
Been working on her next one since February, with Bill, Brian, Jim Keltner
and a couple others at my house and hers (except Keltner did his tracks by
himself at home - you guys should hear it - amazing...). Now on hold since
the Bangles, based on the ease of doing their track for Austin Powers 2,
are reuniting. Probably won't be able to to get back to it til mid to late
2000. Guarantee it'll be better than the last. I love working with her -
she shows up at my house at 10 A.M singing better than SC could after
hours of "trying." She's the real deal but more importantly, for all her
success she has no lame popstar sense of entitlement. What a fucking
relief!
> Dan - Why would a company "deliberately bury" a release? I always
> thought "Thud" could have done better as well.
"Thud " was PRA - not a real record company. Interscope buried "In Flight"
for two or three reasons:
1) To show Linda who was boss so she'd play ball next time out and give
them more hits all the time. Backfired.
2) Didn't believe in it's potential domestically, so cut their losses. As
Interscope goes, it was cheep: $280,000 and we came in way under.
3) Probably the real reason but it's gossip I don't have first-hand
knowldege of so never mind.
DS
Particle Salad
her as a person and vocalist.
mg...@earthlink.net wrote:
--
~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^
Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio
http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad
mp3 songs:
http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad
~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^
mg...@earthlink.net
responded to most of it but I think I fucked up and deleted the more
complicated ones that I was saving for when I had more time. So if you
didn't hear back from me, sorry and try again...
DS
Dave Martin
Is there a site (interview, recollection, or whatever) that talks about the
TNMC concept? From the little I read in your posts, it seems that it was big
fun, but I know little about what y'all did. Was it just playing for fun,
albeit in a studio with tape rolling? Was it a bunch of guys doing a record
on their own time to shop later? Or were you each doing records, and all
using the group as the players for it?
I'm starting to get the urge to be creative again (my work doesn't require
creativity, just an attention to detail), and the studio is here, after all.
That's why I was interested in how y'all approached the TNMC, both from a
creative and from a business viewpoint. I ask about a site so that you're
not repeating yourself...
This is assuming that mine was one of the messages you deleted.
--
Thanks,
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave....@nashville.com
<mg...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mgod-03129...@pool1132.cvx23-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net...
Dave Martin
go away...
--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc.
Nashville, Tennessee
dave....@nashville.com
Dave Martin <dave....@nashville.com> wrote in message
news:s4g7527...@corp.supernews.com...
mg...@earthlink.net
<dave....@nashville.com> wrote:
> Shit - that was supposed to be a private e-mail. Pay it no mind and it will
> go away...
>
> --
> Dave Martin
> DMA, Inc.
> Nashville, Tennessee
> dave....@nashville.com
But since you did it public, I'll answer it public.
The main thing about TNMC was what Bill wanted it to happen and had the
ability to underwrite it's expenses (mostly tape) with the coolest studio
around L.A. and could afford to keep it going 1st class even if we weren't
generating any moolah.
Without that, it could never have happened. So a place that feels great
and can keep tape rolling and a bunch of people you feel like making music
with is the really the thing. And then alawys approaching the evening with
the goal of writing a song and recording keeper tracks but not caring if
you didn't get it that night.
But I can't emphasize enough that it was Bill's baby - from time to time
the rest of us would bring someone along but really for Bill it was just
the 5 of us so that's all it was ever going to be in an ongoing way.
That we all had whatever abilites we had, Brian with his groove and sense
of fashion and what's happening, Kevin with his fearsome ability to make
music out of anything, Baerwald's ability to come up with lyrics on the
spot (even if they'd get completely rewritten eventually), my focus on
feel and whether or not there was any art happening, and Bill's fucking
huge soul and musicianship and abilty to do everythign. That was the 5 of
us. But it could be another group of people with the right combo of abilty
and be just as good or much better. Certainly an abilty to get along with
each other might have helped us.
In our position, particularly with Bill and his profile in the biz (having
just written and produced Michael Jackson's first [and only?] #1 of the
90's) it was nice to know if we got something good that the biz would pay
attention - what Bill calls the open window.
That's all I can think of.
DS
--
"...nothing is real."