NAD better than Mark Levinson.
Bart A. Lane
The NAD 317 80wpc integrated amp I bought off ebay for $400 absolutely blows
away the Mark Levinson no383 I replaced it with. The NAD had a very warm,
mellow sound when cranked up while the Levinson totally loses its cheese.
Voices get distorted, Midrange, ear-hurting tones are exaggerated and very
high ranges sound artificial. I just can't believe it. I wish I had that
NAD back and I wish I had the total waste of $4000 I spent on the Mark
Levinson. I will never buy another one of their products again.
Could it be my speakers that don't work well with the 383? They are PSB
Stratus Goldi. Maybe they were a good match for my NAD but not the
Levinson. I was thinking of giving a set of B&W 801 Nautilus loudspeakers
an audition here. I would be happy if it sounded as good as it did before.
One thing though, the Levinson looks and feels good but as every day passes
I begin to hate it more and more.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
Steve Zipser
products out there for a lot less money, Bart. The PSB Stratus Golds are
terrific speakers and had you got, say, a Conrad Johnson PV-10 preamp and
a Parasound HCA-3500 power amp, you'd be listening to music right now
instead of whining on the newsgroup. That is the combo that is currently
powering our Stratus.
Cheers
Zip
In article <BIt45.27380$FC6.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net says...
--
Sunshine Stereo, Inc http://www.sunshinestereo.com Tel: 305-757-9358
9535 Biscayne Blvd Miami Shores, FL 33138 Fax: 305-757-1367
Conrad Johnson Cal Audio Labs Spectron Parasound PASS Labs Gallo Davis
Audible Illusions Straightwire Niles Oracle Faroudja Rega Benz-Micro
Dunlavy Lexicon Volksamp VUTEC EAD CleanLines Monster RUNCO ESP PS Audio
Nakamichi Genelec Solid Steel Camelot Salamander Audio Logic Seleco PSB
Nothin like Baseball in the big ball orchard in da Bronx!
Bart A. Lane
is mine unless I sell it. I'm sure I can get my 4 bucks out of it but it
just makes me sad. I look forward to reading that review, I might write
them a letter on this one because I couldn't disagree with their findings
more.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"NeilKoomen" <neilkoome...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:016e3c00...@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Bart, you may have already seen this, but in original thread you
> started on this topic I've mentioned that your ML is on the
> cover of the latest "Stereophile" magazine, with a rave review
> inside. You might want to get a copy of that for your files,
> just in case you ever decide to sell the ML someday.
>
> Given the rave review in the magazine, I'm sorry to hear your ML
> isn't living up to your needs. You might want to check that
> review and also contact ML and your dealer; for the $4k you
> paid, it seems to me that ML should be willing to work with you
> on any problems. For that much moolah, I'd expect to be made
> extremely happy, no matter what speaker I used.
>
> Hope there's a happy resolution to this.
>
> Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
> Up to 100 minutes free!
> http://www.keen.com
>
>
Steve Zipser
bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net says...
> Thanks. I bought a 3 month old one from the other side of the country. It
> is mine unless I sell it. I'm sure I can get my 4 bucks out of it but it
> just makes me sad. I look forward to reading that review, I might write
> them a letter on this one because I couldn't disagree with their findings
> more.
MLAS products get a blank check fro S'phile because of their name and
reputation. Truth be told, Pass, Spectral, CJ, ARC, Rowland are all much
better sounding.
Zip
Stephen McElroy
"Bart A. Lane" <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
> On my life's list of ten greatest mistakes this will be one of them.
Just a little buyer's remorse! At least you like *one* of your amps...
I've only heard the older PSB Gold at a dealer's, but if anything it was
somewhat forgiving of amp quality. IIRC, PSBs are 4 ohms. How loud are you
listening?
The sound quality you describe doesn't sound typical of any hi-fi product,
more like my long departed 80s Denon receiver.
Stephen
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
"Brian L. McCarty" <opera...@worldjazz.com> wrote in message
news:B578B5F5.2750A%opera...@worldjazz.com...
> in article MPG.13bc36e65...@news.mco.bellsouth.net, Steve Zipser
> at z...@sunshinestereo.com wrote on 23/6/00 5:45:
>
> > I told you in no uncertain terms that there were much better sounding
> > products out there for a lot less money, Bart. The PSB Stratus Golds
are
>
> accurate advice?
>
> I think not.
Well obviously I did give him good advice, fatboy Bwian! I told him not to
buy it and now he knows I was right, and as usual,. you are wrong ;-)
Go eat another fifty cheeseburgers, and clean out the bathrooms in your
boss's recording studio with your toothbrush.
Trevor Wilson
"Bart A. Lane" <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:BIt45.27380$FC6.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> On my life's list of ten greatest mistakes this will be one of them.
>
blows
> away the Mark Levinson no383 I replaced it with. The NAD had a very warm,
> mellow sound when cranked up while the Levinson totally loses its cheese.
> Voices get distorted, Midrange, ear-hurting tones are exaggerated and
very
> high ranges sound artificial. I just can't believe it. I wish I had that
> NAD back and I wish I had the total waste of $4000 I spent on the Mark
> Levinson. I will never buy another one of their products again.
**I am unfamiliar with the particular models, you quote, so my following
comments may be way off beam. They are based on years of experience,
however.
ML products are generally pretty decent, as are NAD ones in their respective
price ranges. One thing, I have noticed, with high resolution amplifiers, is
just how critical sources and source material (particularly) becomes. Any
flaws in either of these areas, becomes very obvious, when using a high
resolution amplifier. To a greater, or lesser degree, depending on your
perception, interconnect cables may also be a contributing factor. Before
throwing the baby out, with the bath water, it may be smart to experiment in
this area, as well. Find a dealer who will loan you cables.
>
> Could it be my speakers that don't work well with the 383?
**Seems unlikely. ML's have pretty good load tolerance.
They are PSB
> Stratus Goldi. Maybe they were a good match for my NAD but not the
> Levinson. I was thinking of giving a set of B&W 801 Nautilus loudspeakers
> an audition here. I would be happy if it sounded as good as it did
before.
> One thing though, the Levinson looks and feels good but as every day
passes
> I begin to hate it more and more.
>
**What is your source and source software? Interconnect cables? Have you
tried other sources and source software? Have you tried any of the accepted
'audiophile' recordings? Have you tried other types of cables? Do you use a
dedicated power line?
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Nexus 6
<bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
>On my life's list of ten greatest mistakes this will be one of them.
>
>The NAD 317 80wpc integrated amp I bought off ebay for $400 absolutely blows
>away the Mark Levinson no383 I replaced it with. The NAD had a very warm,
>mellow sound when cranked up while the Levinson totally loses its cheese.
>Voices get distorted, Midrange, ear-hurting tones are exaggerated and very
>high ranges sound artificial. I just can't believe it. I wish I had that
>NAD back and I wish I had the total waste of $4000 I spent on the Mark
>Levinson. I will never buy another one of their products again.
>
>Could it be my speakers that don't work well with the 383? They are PSB
>Stratus Goldi. Maybe they were a good match for my NAD but not the
>Levinson. I was thinking of giving a set of B&W 801 Nautilus loudspeakers
>an audition here. I would be happy if it sounded as good as it did before.
>One thing though, the Levinson looks and feels good but as every day passes
>I begin to hate it more and more.
Bart,
The Levinson shouldn't sound *that* different from the NAD,
and will power your speakers without trouble. Is this
something new? Or was it apparent from the beginning?
Nexus 6
======================
"No more miracles
Loaves and fishes
Been so busy
With the washing of the dishes"
Bart A. Lane
both amps but the music I like to listen to definitely sounded better
before. I can't change what music I enjoy just to please my amplifier.
Cables are OK but not expensive. My interconnects and speaker cables cost
about $100 total. Monster for speaker cable and Audioquest for RCA.
Dedicated power line? I plug into the way, same place I plugged my NAD
into. This amp does not sound good.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:sTw45.1829$Sn2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Bart A. Lane" <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:BIt45.27380$FC6.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > On my life's list of ten greatest mistakes this will be one of them.
> >
> > The NAD 317 80wpc integrated amp I bought off ebay for $400 absolutely
> blows
> > away the Mark Levinson no383 I replaced it with. The NAD had a very
warm,
> > mellow sound when cranked up while the Levinson totally loses its
cheese.
> > Voices get distorted, Midrange, ear-hurting tones are exaggerated and
> very
> > high ranges sound artificial. I just can't believe it. I wish I had
that
> > NAD back and I wish I had the total waste of $4000 I spent on the Mark
> > Levinson. I will never buy another one of their products again.
>
> **I am unfamiliar with the particular models, you quote, so my following
> comments may be way off beam. They are based on years of experience,
> however.
>
> ML products are generally pretty decent, as are NAD ones in their
respective
> price ranges. One thing, I have noticed, with high resolution amplifiers,
is
> just how critical sources and source material (particularly) becomes. Any
> flaws in either of these areas, becomes very obvious, when using a high
> resolution amplifier. To a greater, or lesser degree, depending on your
> perception, interconnect cables may also be a contributing factor. Before
> throwing the baby out, with the bath water, it may be smart to experiment
in
> this area, as well. Find a dealer who will loan you cables.
>
> >
> > Could it be my speakers that don't work well with the 383?
>
> **Seems unlikely. ML's have pretty good load tolerance.
>
> They are PSB
> > Stratus Goldi. Maybe they were a good match for my NAD but not the
> > Levinson. I was thinking of giving a set of B&W 801 Nautilus
loudspeakers
> > an audition here. I would be happy if it sounded as good as it did
> before.
> > One thing though, the Levinson looks and feels good but as every day
> passes
> > I begin to hate it more and more.
> >
>
Bart A. Lane
marches on. I came home late last night after a card game and sat down to
listen. I listened to some 70's rock for about an hour (Bowie and Petty)
and I was thinking to myself, "Damn, this really sounds like shit." Linda
must have thought so too because she came out of the bedroom and told me to
turn it down. Tom Petty's voice was really hurting my ears. I know he is
in that octave anyway but it was much more mellow and smooth with the NAD.
The mids are just overly powerful on this amp. I am temped to install an EQ
just to knock a little of the mids out and I have never wanted to do that
before.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"Nexus 6" <gal...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:gp85lsc52k0m71qpa...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:23:13 GMT, "Bart A. Lane"
> <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
>
> >On my life's list of ten greatest mistakes this will be one of them.
> >
> >The NAD 317 80wpc integrated amp I bought off ebay for $400 absolutely
blows
> >away the Mark Levinson no383 I replaced it with. The NAD had a very
warm,
> >mellow sound when cranked up while the Levinson totally loses its cheese.
> >Voices get distorted, Midrange, ear-hurting tones are exaggerated and
very
> >high ranges sound artificial. I just can't believe it. I wish I had
that
> >NAD back and I wish I had the total waste of $4000 I spent on the Mark
> >Levinson. I will never buy another one of their products again.
> >
> >Could it be my speakers that don't work well with the 383? They are PSB
> >Stratus Goldi. Maybe they were a good match for my NAD but not the
> >Levinson. I was thinking of giving a set of B&W 801 Nautilus
loudspeakers
> >an audition here. I would be happy if it sounded as good as it did
before.
> >One thing though, the Levinson looks and feels good but as every day
passes
> >I begin to hate it more and more.
>
Trevor Wilson
"Bart A. Lane" <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:exx45.27914$FC6.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> I have several disks from DMP and Sheffield to listen to and it sounds OK
on
> both amps but the music I like to listen to definitely sounded better
> before. I can't change what music I enjoy just to please my amplifier.
**And I did not suggest that you should. High resolution amplifiers can
often expose flaws in poor quality (which includes 99% of mainstream stuff)
recordings. It is very important to understand this fact. Otherwise you can
be 'trapped' into purchasing mediocre equipment, forever. Judge equipment on
the BEST recordings. After all, both your musical tastes will change, as
will recording quality.
>
> Cables are OK but not expensive. My interconnects and speaker cables cost
> about $100 total. Monster for speaker cable and Audioquest for RCA.
> Dedicated power line? I plug into the way, same place I plugged my NAD
> into. This amp does not sound good.
**Fair enough. Presumably the ML consumes considerably more power (at idle)
than the NAD. It is possible that IF the power line is poor (as is common in
110VAC systems), then the ML may be pulling the line Voltage down, so low
that it's performance is compromised. I suggest you try better
interconnects. Please note: I did not mention speaker cables. They have no
bearing in this matter.
NB: I am not making excuses for the ML. I have no interest in whether it is
superior to the NAD, or otherwise. I am simply attempting to offer possible
explanations, for your dilema.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
François Yves Le Gal
<z...@sunshinestereo.com> wrotE:
>MLAS products get a blank check fro S'phile because of their name and
>reputation.
Re. new MLAS CD players and amps, I've tried their 37 + 39 + 380 + 331
(w/ Transparent interconnects and speaker cables) combo on a pair of
Sonus faber Guarneri Homage, and the Levinson transformed everything
into a greyish, bland, lifeless landscape.
I know the Sf pretty well, as I've got a pair at home, and they are
anything but bland.
So much for a bad match, or for the lifeless quality of contemprorary
MLAS amps.
Bart A. Lane
interconnects. There is a nice set of half meter Tara Labs on ebay which
were at $50 last time I checked. MSRP on them is $250 so maybe they will
help.
Is there anything I can do to help the power out? It is just a regular old
power outlet like you see in any house. The NAD and Levinson only have a 20
watt rms difference by two channels, do you think the new amp draws that
much more power?
I have no problem sticking with mediocre rated gear if it makes my music
sound better. Better sound on my disks and lower price!!! Can't beat
that.
If anybody from Madrigal is reading this I would enjoy getting an e-mail
from somebody there who deals with sound quality. I would love to get your
take on this.
I must admit though that one disk sounded spectacular. It is the best
recording of Carmina Burana that I have ever heard on digital. It is on a
label called Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft and I don't know what they did
but it is truly a special recording. It DOES sound better on the Levinson.
Noticeably. I just played that CD this afternoon and it really lifted me
into the sky on this gear in a way the NAD never did. So that is a bright
note. Maybe there will be more.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:jJx45.1850$Sn2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Trevor Wilson
> Thank you for the help. I was thinking of picking up a set of XLR
balanced
> interconnects. There is a nice set of half meter Tara Labs on ebay which
> were at $50 last time I checked. MSRP on them is $250 so maybe they will
> help.
**Perhaps. However, I always suggest that cables be used on a
try-before-you-buy system. Nevertheless, one of your comments, further down,
suggests that this may not be a fruitful area of investigation for you.
>
> Is there anything I can do to help the power out? It is just a regular
old
> power outlet like you see in any house. The NAD and Levinson only have a
20
> watt rms difference by two channels, do you think the new amp draws that
> much more power?
**The key is: IDLE POWER. Many high ends consume large amounts of power,
when not actually driving speakers (but are switched on). They usually
dissipate this extra power as heat. Look at the manufacturer's specs.
>
> I have no problem sticking with mediocre rated gear if it makes my music
> sound better. Better sound on my disks and lower price!!! Can't beat
> that.
**I agree 100%. Never spend more than you need to.
>
> If anybody from Madrigal is reading this I would enjoy getting an e-mail
> from somebody there who deals with sound quality. I would love to get
your
> take on this.
>
> I must admit though that one disk sounded spectacular. It is the best
> recording of Carmina Burana that I have ever heard on digital. It is on a
> label called Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft and I don't know what they
did
> but it is truly a special recording. It DOES sound better on the
Levinson.
**This should tell you a great deal about where the problem MAY lie. Clearly
if a high quality recording sounds better on the ML, then perhaps it is
exposing the flaws on your other recordings. As I suggested previously, try
some other 'audiophile' quality recordings and tell us what you find. It is
starting to look as though the Ml is the better product, it's just that the
NAD is hiding the flaws in your software. It is for these reasons why many
listeners are turning to SET equipment. Such equipment often hides problems
in the source.
> Noticeably. I just played that CD this afternoon and it really lifted me
> into the sky on this gear in a way the NAD never did. So that is a bright
> note. Maybe there will be more.
**Yep. Try some more music, with high quality production values. I have
many, many recordings, in my collection, which I can barely tolerate, even I
like the music. I can't stand the crappy production values, though.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
mdryoon
>
> It was probably from the start but it has become more apparent as time
> marches on. I came home late last night after a card game and sat down to
> listen. I listened to some 70's rock for about an hour (Bowie and Petty)
> and I was thinking to myself, "Damn, this really sounds like shit." Linda
> must have thought so too because she came out of the bedroom and told me to
> turn it down. Tom Petty's voice was really hurting my ears. I know he is
> in that octave anyway but it was much more mellow and smooth with the NAD.
> The mids are just overly powerful on this amp. I am temped to install an EQ
> just to knock a little of the mids out and I have never wanted to do that
> before.
Many 70s rock recordings are recorded like shit. Maybe your Levinson
is just being more honest than your NAD. Like someone else said, you
should try your Levinson with well recorded sources before you write
it off.
Richard Yoon
Steve Zipser
bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net says...
> Thank you for the help. I was thinking of picking up a set of XLR balanced
> interconnects. There is a nice set of half meter Tara Labs on ebay which
> were at $50 last time I checked. MSRP on them is $250 so maybe they will
> help.
>
difference at all.
> Is there anything I can do to help the power out? It is just a regular old
> power outlet like you see in any house. The NAD and Levinson only have a 20
> watt rms difference by two channels, do you think the new amp draws that
> much more power?
Get one of the PS Audio Power devices - they are pretty remarkable.
> I have no problem sticking with mediocre rated gear if it makes my music
> sound better. Better sound on my disks and lower price!!! Can't beat
> that.
As you were told ;-)
> If anybody from Madrigal is reading this I would enjoy getting an e-mail
> from somebody there who deals with sound quality. I would love to get your
> take on this.
The big problem for Madrigal is they have not made a sonically
competitive product in years and they do not give a shit. As long as the
magazines can be deceived or cajoled into ridiculously positive reviews
of crap like Levinson, then they will continue to make mediocre sounding
products.
> I must admit though that one disk sounded spectacular. It is the best
> recording of Carmina Burana that I have ever heard on digital. It is on a
> label called Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft and I don't know what they did
> but it is truly a special recording. It DOES sound better on the Levinson.
> Noticeably. I just played that CD this afternoon and it really lifted me
> into the sky on this gear in a way the NAD never did. So that is a bright
> note. Maybe there will be more.
You ought to hear the VINYL LP of same!
Zip
> --
>
> Bart A. Lane
> bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
> Remove hash marks to contact
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:jJx45.1850$Sn2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> > "Bart A. Lane" <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote in message
--
Steve Zipser
says...
> "Bart A. Lane" wrote:
> >
> > It was probably from the start but it has become more apparent as time
> > marches on. I came home late last night after a card game and sat down to
> > listen. I listened to some 70's rock for about an hour (Bowie and Petty)
> > and I was thinking to myself, "Damn, this really sounds like shit." Linda
> > must have thought so too because she came out of the bedroom and told me to
> > turn it down. Tom Petty's voice was really hurting my ears. I know he is
> > in that octave anyway but it was much more mellow and smooth with the NAD.
> > The mids are just overly powerful on this amp. I am temped to install an EQ
> > just to knock a little of the mids out and I have never wanted to do that
> > before.
>
> Many 70s rock recordings are recorded like shit.
Oh stick an Uzi up your ass, Yoonie, and go pray to Crush Bimbo.
Fleetwood Mac, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, CSNY, Allman Bros, Dire
Straites, U2, Ambrosia, Queen, Lou Reed, Johnny Winter, and a zillion
other bands all made great sounding LP's from time to time in the 70's,
you moron.
> Maybe your Levinson is just being more honest than your NAD.
Not likely.
> Like someone else said, you should try your Levinson with well
> recorded sources before you write it off.
> Richard Yoon
Yawn
Arny Krueger
"NeilKoomen" <neilkoome...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:0d7d4898...@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "Bart A. Lane" <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
>
> (snip)
>
> >This amp does not sound good.
>
Begging the question: "What would happen in a level-matched DBT?"
That would kinda separate the potential "buyer's remorse" from just
plain bad sound, right?
dave weil
<z...@sunshinestereo.com> wrote:
>In article <3952D647...@earthlink.net>, mdr...@earthlink.net
>says...
>> "Bart A. Lane" wrote:
>> >
>> > It was probably from the start but it has become more apparent as time
>> > marches on. I came home late last night after a card game and sat down to
>> > listen. I listened to some 70's rock for about an hour (Bowie and Petty)
>> > and I was thinking to myself, "Damn, this really sounds like shit." Linda
>> > must have thought so too because she came out of the bedroom and told me to
>> > turn it down. Tom Petty's voice was really hurting my ears. I know he is
>> > in that octave anyway but it was much more mellow and smooth with the NAD.
>> > The mids are just overly powerful on this amp. I am temped to install an EQ
>> > just to knock a little of the mids out and I have never wanted to do that
>> > before.
>>
>> Many 70s rock recordings are recorded like shit.
>
>Oh stick an Uzi up your ass, Yoonie, and go pray to Crush Bimbo.
>Fleetwood Mac, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, CSNY, Allman Bros, Dire
>Straites, U2, Ambrosia, Queen, Lou Reed, Johnny Winter, and a zillion
>other bands all made great sounding LP's from time to time in the 70's,
>you moron.
The early Jefferson Airplane albums sound like shit sonically. U2
didn't make any 70s albums. Ambrosia's music was mostly velveeta, but
the recording quality *was* pretty good. But who cares if the music
makes you want to shoot up the local postal office? Dire Straits'
sonics *were* good. Very snappy sounding. Lou Reed's Berlin is a great
sounding album but not because of sparkling sonics. Neither was Rock
and Roll Animal. Transformer had that "Bowie sound" down but when you
listen to that (and Bowie's concurrent albums) sonics don't spring to
mind. Queen has "spectacular sonics" but it's more sonic theatrics
than "high-end" sonics. The first two albums have that typical 70s
muddy bass and drums.
However I note that you say "from time to time." That isn't exactly a
ringing endorsement, nor does it conflict with Richard's statement.
Tom Petty's sound has always sounded "less than real" to me. The early
albums are a bit dumpy sounding, but that's part of the whole package.
I wouldn't change it because it's part of the sound. I have a passing
familiarity with his later work, which "sounds better." But guess
which I like to listen to <g>?
Bart, it sounds like you're going to need two systems. The NAD for
your "common denominator" stuff, and The ML for the high end stuff.
It's painful but there you go.
Also, why don't yourself get used to the new gear before making any
final conclusions?
Also, I don't remember the initial series of posts. Could you please
refresh us on the chonology? How long have you had each piece, what
did they replace, etc.
>
>> Maybe your Levinson is just being more honest than your NAD.
>
>Not likely.
>
>> Like someone else said, you should try your Levinson with well
>> recorded sources before you write it off.
Well, he already did and guess what?
No User
On Thu, 22 Jun 2000, Steve Zipser wrote:
> In article <_yu45.27518$FC6.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net says...
> > Thanks. I bought a 3 month old one from the other side of the country. It
> > is mine unless I sell it. I'm sure I can get my 4 bucks out of it but it
> > just makes me sad. I look forward to reading that review, I might write
> > them a letter on this one because I couldn't disagree with their findings
> > more.
>
> MLAS products get a blank check fro S'phile because of their name and
> reputation. Truth be told, Pass, Spectral, CJ, ARC, Rowland are all much
> better sounding.
Blind or sighted?
--
Anon E. Mouse
Scott
Mark Levinson products have always sounded sterile with a 2
dimensional sound that seems to add an electronic glaze to the music
to my ears.
It's not surprising to hear you say that you like the NAD more than
the Levinson.I found out a similar thing.I "downgraded" to a Dynaco
ST-70 amp that cost me $200.00 used.
To be honest w/you,the Dynaco ST-70 sounds better than any mega dollar
Krell stuff ever did in my systems.The Dynaco makes me want to listen
to music for hours without any fatigue.The Dynaco makes ALL of the
music that I own sound good.Some may call the sound of the Dynaco
colored.SO WHAT!It makes me further enjoy the music which is what
owning a quality stereo system should be about!
All the Krell gear that I owned in the past did was create great
listener fatigue throw a bright, harsh soundstage at me with a shovel
and make me want to turn off the music and leave the room!
Scott
On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:23:13 GMT, "Bart A. Lane"
<bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
>On my life's list of ten greatest mistakes this will be one of them.
>
>The NAD 317 80wpc integrated amp I bought off ebay for $400 absolutely blows
>away the Mark Levinson no383 I replaced it with. The NAD had a very warm,
>mellow sound when cranked up while the Levinson totally loses its cheese.
>Voices get distorted, Midrange, ear-hurting tones are exaggerated and very
>high ranges sound artificial. I just can't believe it. I wish I had that
>NAD back and I wish I had the total waste of $4000 I spent on the Mark
>Levinson. I will never buy another one of their products again.
>
>Could it be my speakers that don't work well with the 383? They are PSB
>Stratus Goldi. Maybe they were a good match for my NAD but not the
>Levinson. I was thinking of giving a set of B&W 801 Nautilus loudspeakers
>an audition here. I would be happy if it sounded as good as it did before.
>One thing though, the Levinson looks and feels good but as every day passes
>I begin to hate it more and more.
>
George M. Middius
> .Some may call the sound of the Dynaco
> colored.SO WHAT!It makes me further enjoy the music which is what
> owning a quality stereo system should be about!
Uh-oh -- that's 'borg bait. If you don't worship "accuracy," your
a looser™ and a tweek™.
George M. Middius
Tony Loban
>Uh-oh -- that's 'borg bait. If you don't worship "accuracy,"
>your
>a looser™ and a tweek™.
don't forget 'fanatic' and 'goofball'.
Roland Saldanha
Bart A. Lane <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
> On my life's list of ten greatest mistakes this will be one of them.
>
> The NAD 317 80wpc integrated amp I bought off ebay for $400 absolutely blows
> away the Mark Levinson no383 I replaced it with. The NAD had a very warm,
> mellow sound when cranked up while the Levinson totally loses its cheese.
> Voices get distorted, Midrange, ear-hurting tones are exaggerated and very
> high ranges sound artificial.
How do the two amps sound at moderate volumes?
You say that the Levinson sounds worse than the Nad when "cranked up".
An old review that I saw of a the PSB said its nominal impedance is
about 4 ohms and dips to 2.7 at 97 Hz, further its sensitivity was low
(84-86 Db?). In a dynamic output the Stereophile review shows that
the Levinson put out less than 50 Watts into a 1 ohm load. In
continuous power it puts out about 200 Watts into a 4 ohm load (dynamic
of course is higher). The NAD models have "soft clipping" so even
though you are overdriving the amplifier it clips more gracefully. You
may simply be overdriving the amplifiers and if this is true then the
amp should sound fine at lower volumes.
If this is in fact true you may simply need a more powerfull amplifier
to drive the speaker to the levels you listen to (or a more sensitive
speaker).
Since you originally stated you bought your Levinson for its aesthetics
I hope you do not mind my last dig (it is directed at the high end and
not at you): The Stereophile review says: "Why is the integrated more
economical? It's less expensive to build, having just one chassis and
shipping carton ...... Each chassis and its carton add greatly to the
cost." It is interesting to learn that $$$$ products have a
substantial fraction of their cost structure wrapped in packaging.
Roland
P.S. One last thought - you originally suggested you bought the
Levinson because it was a steal. My question is are you sure that the
amp if fully functional and the "deal" that you got represents true
value or somebody palming off damaged goods?
Bart A. Lane
to it, get his opinion.
I should be able to get this magazine but it just takes a bit to make it to
the store shelves.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"NeilKoomen" <neilkoome...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:0f66d982...@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> "Bart A. Lane" <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
> >Thanks. I bought a 3 month old one from the other side of the
> country. It
> >is mine unless I sell it. I'm sure I can get my 4 bucks out of
> it but it
> >just makes me sad. I look forward to reading that review, I
> might write
> >them a letter on this one because I couldn't disagree with
> their findings
> >more.
>
> Bart, my hope (and I know "hope" is an unusual choice for a word
> for what I'm going to say next) is that your ML is defective
> and/or makes you so unhappy that the dealer and/or ML will want
> to work with you to solve the problem, either by fixing the ML,
> replacing it with something that works better for you, or
> refunding your $$$.
>
> If you can't get your hands on the review locally, let me know
> via private e-mail and I'll send you my copy of the review.
Bart A. Lane
and now a third for not so well recorded music.
Fist system, used for movies and music. Still have but use only for
theater.
Polk RMDS-1 5.1 system. 4 surrounds, center, sub and receiver.
NAD T550 DVD/CD player.
This is a great set up for movies (No DTS though.) and music is fine at
lower volumes. When you turn it up though with music things get bad in a
hurry.
First system for music. Used less than a month.
Ah! Tjoeb 99
NAD 317
PSB Stratus Goldi
This was the best sounding system yet. Couldn't let it lie though, just had
to have the cool ML 383 with pretty, shiny knobs. Figure it couldn't sound
any worse and I was going to be happy with those excellent spun, aluminum
knobs. knobs, knobs, knobs. No I feel like knob-head.
Current system replaced the front end with
ML no383
Proceed CDP and DAP
The Proceed is very, very new and I am still experimenting. Maybe it will
help.
I am also ordering some nicer interconnects and speaker cables.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"dave weil" <ddw...@home.com> wrote in message
news:395368b6.2635316@news...
Sander deWaal
>ML no383...........
You can always ask a competent technician to mount
the innards of the NAD amp into the Levinson :-)
--
This .sig place for hire-ask for details!
Scott
On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:38:28 -0400, George M. Middius
<glan...@ipo.net> wrote:
>Scott said:
>
>> .Some may call the sound of the Dynaco
>> colored.SO WHAT!It makes me further enjoy the music which is what
>> owning a quality stereo system should be about!
>
>Uh-oh -- that's 'borg bait. If you don't worship "accuracy," your
>a looser™ and a tweek™.
No....Actually I enjoy listening to music and NOT components!
Scott
>
>
>George M. Middius
Bart A. Lane
What a concept!!
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"Sander deWaal" <ab...@citroen.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:3953a83d...@news.demon.nl...
Bart A. Lane
opinion right now on ~30 of them. I am going to give it some time, listen
to different sound levels on all different types of disks and try to wait
until then to form my opinion. I know that it sucks at mediocre quality
rock recordings. That's that. I need to see how the system handles the
rest of the music. I will post what I find.
I am also going to see if I can talk the local ML dealer to come to my house
and listen and look things over. Bribe him with a beer or something. Maybe
he can look things over such as my power supply, wiring, etc. and see what
he thinks. I know he will agree that it sounds less than wonderful and
maybe help me to fix it. They also sell NAD so perhaps he can bring over a
demo NAD amp and we can listen to them side by side.
My speakers point in, towards the listener. Maybe I should aim them
straight out.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"Roland Saldanha" <rsal...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:230620001234264061%rsal...@mail.utexas.edu...
> In article <BIt45.27380$FC6.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Bart A. Lane <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
>
Scott
The dealer will then probobly tell you that the ML is not the
problem.He will probobly tell you that in order for the ML to sound
good,you will have to buy new speakers and a new CD Player that his
store carries.Any other brand that the dealer does not sell will
suck!Damn SALESHACKS!BEWARE MOST DEALERS LIE,LIE,LIE!
Scott
On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:50:45 GMT, "Bart A. Lane"
Bart A. Lane
Probably say that they are the problem. That's why I would like him to
bring an NAD amp with him to hear just how good it can sound. My CD and DAC
are Proceed recent models which his store does carry. I got my cables from
him. So it will probably be the fault of the speakers.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"Scott" <htal...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3953b26e...@news.nycap.rr.com...
mdryoon
>
> > Many 70s rock recordings are recorded like shit.
>
> Oh stick an Uzi up your ass, Yoonie, and go pray to Crush Bimbo.
The requisite personal attack.
> Fleetwood Mac, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane, CSNY, Allman Bros, Dire
> Straites, U2, Ambrosia, Queen, Lou Reed, Johnny Winter, and a zillion
> other bands all made great sounding LP's from time to time in the 70's,
> you moron.
I don't know about Petty recordings, but 70s Bowie recordings are
mediocre at best.
And what does "from time to time" mean? That typical 70s rock
recordings don't set even good standards of fidelity? Yep.
BTW, since when was U2 a 70s band?
Another BTW. I didn't notice you refuting a thing Dave Weil said,
and he reiterated most of what I said previously. What reason did
you have to interject your personal attack and your otherwise useless
waste of bandwidth to not even refute what I had to say?
> > Like someone else said, you should try your Levinson with well
> > recorded sources before you write it off.
> > Richard Yoon
>
> Yawn
Why is this so bad? Because Bart might actually keep the Levinson if
he finds out that it sounds very good with high quality recordings?
And because you might lose a potential sale because of that? Nah,
couldn't be.........
Looks like Bart is following some more "boring" advice like changing
speaker toe-in. Bart can also try to change room acoustics, another
"boring" piece of advice to an audio salesman who would like to sell
him a Pass or Parasound instead of have him try to extract the most
out of his Levinson.
Richard Yoon
Nexus 6
<bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
>I am going to do this. I have about 400 disks I listen to. I am basing my
>opinion right now on ~30 of them. I am going to give it some time, listen
>to different sound levels on all different types of disks and try to wait
>until then to form my opinion. I know that it sucks at mediocre quality
>rock recordings. That's that. I need to see how the system handles the
>rest of the music. I will post what I find.
>
>I am also going to see if I can talk the local ML dealer to come to my house
>and listen and look things over. Bribe him with a beer or something. Maybe
>he can look things over such as my power supply, wiring, etc. and see what
>he thinks. I know he will agree that it sounds less than wonderful and
>maybe help me to fix it. They also sell NAD so perhaps he can bring over a
>demo NAD amp and we can listen to them side by side.
Excellent idea.
>
>My speakers point in, towards the listener. Maybe I should aim them
>straight out.
Even better idea!
Placement is nearly everything. I've noticed by your
messages that you are making a lot of changes all at once.
Best, IMO, to take it slowly, and not make any hasty
decisions in purchasing more/different gear, or
interconnects, etc. Mediocre recordings are often mistaken
in a new system for something being "wrong" with the set up.
Best advise is to relax, listen at length to a variety of
familiar music, and most of all, experiment with speaker
placement. Minor movements of speakers make huge differences
in the overall sound presentation, and the PSB's do not need
much, if any toe in to perform well.
Much luck to you.
Audiophile
http://www.audioreview.com/reviews/Amplifier/product_10208.shtml
".......I am happy to say that the sound quality did not diminish any, in fact
it may have gotten a little better; hard to tell when amps get this good if
there is improvement from one to another. It is louder because of the extra 20
watts and it doesn't bust its gut when the NAD would at higher volumes...."
Then why do you change your mind now ? Just curious.
Another audiophile.
Audiophile
Audiophile
Bart A. Lane
was posted the day or next day after I got it. Don't get me wrong, I still
think it is a neat amp. I have just grown to be less than thrilled with
some music on it as I have listened to it. Have you ever bought something,
say a car, and was thrilled with your purchase right out of the gate? Then
you live with it for a while and find out that it may not be all it is
cracked up to be? Once the honeymoon is over reality steps in. That's all.
--
Bart A. Lane
bart...@earthlink.net
Audiophile <audio...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:39544A1C...@nospam.com...
Norm Strong
>A little time to get to know it and listen to more music on it is why. That
>was posted the day or next day after I got it. Don't get me wrong, I still
>think it is a neat amp. I have just grown to be less than thrilled with
>some music on it as I have listened to it. Have you ever bought something,
>say a car, and was thrilled with your purchase right out of the gate? Then
>you live with it for a while and find out that it may not be all it is
>cracked up to be? Once the honeymoon is over reality steps in. That's all.
I've had that problem many many times. So many, in fact, that I refrain from
going public with my opinion until some time has elapsed. I suggest you make
it a policy to do the same.
Norm Strong (nh...@aol.com)
2528 31st South, Seattle WA 98l44
Bart A. Lane
a fat, new piece of gear. The plastic, the manuals, the batteries in the
little shrink wrap bag, the knobs, etc. Hard to help myself. I often live
to regret sharing my enthusiasm though.
I live quite near you Norm. Why do you put your address on your postings?
Just curious, I would feel nervous doing that.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"Norm Strong" <nh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000624133232...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
Auditor55
From: "Bart A. Lane" bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net
Date: 6/22/00 12:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <BIt45.27380$FC6.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
On my life's list of ten greatest mistakes this will be one of them.
The NAD 317 80wpc integrated amp I bought off ebay for $400 absolutely blows
away the Mark Levinson no383 I replaced it with. The NAD had a very warm,
mellow sound when cranked up while the Levinson totally loses its cheese.
Voices get distorted, Midrange, ear-hurting tones are exaggerated and very
high ranges sound artificial. I just can't believe it. I wish I had that
NAD back and I wish I had the total waste of $4000 I spent on the Mark
Levinson. I will never buy another one of their products again.
Could it be my speakers that don't work well with the 383? They are PSB
Stratus Goldi. Maybe they were a good match for my NAD but not the
Levinson. I was thinking of giving a set of B&W 801 Nautilus loudspeakers
an audition here. I would be happy if it sounded as good as it did before.
One thing though, the Levinson looks and feels good but as every day passes
I begin to hate it more and more.>>
Before you spent so much money on the Levinson 383, why did you do a listening
test? Where you influenced by the fact that the 383 cost more than the NAD that
it must be better?
Bart A. Lane
and it sounded very good. But the one I bought was shipped to me and I did
not get to hear it until it was set up in my home. Things are better now.
I fooled with the toe-in and that helped. I still think it doesn't sound as
good on some recordings but I guess that is the fault of the disk. It is
just hard to explain to people that it sounds worse because the amp IS
better. I know it is a good product, I mean it has to be right? I was a
bit harsh in my original post, more than I should have been, but I came away
from a listening session totally disheartened. The people at Madrigal have
been really nice and they helped me out with some earlier issues on the
piece. I really want to love this amp but it saddens me that the music I
really enjoy sounds almost painfully bright.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"Auditor55" <audi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000624153819...@ng-fz1.aol.com...
nigel_...@my-deja.com
I haven't listened to ML in years, but I have two suggestions.
1) Are you leaving the amp on overnight?
2) Get CD cables with high capacitance to mellow out the sound.
Regards,
Nigel
In article <uC855.36570$FC6.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
"Bart A. Lane" <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote:
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bart A. Lane
1.) ML uses a standby button which basically only shuts off the LED. The
amp is warm 24 hours a day as is my transport and DAC.
2.) What cables would that be? Kimber Select fall under that category?
Cables between transport and DAC or between DAC and pre-amp?
3.) Thank you.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
<nigel_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8j3noe$md4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
nigel_...@my-deja.com
Between the DAC and preamp.
I doubt digital cables would have as much variation as you actually
need.
You might want to try some cheap-o Radio Shacks or LOW grade Monsters
to start with. Just see if those seem to go in the right direction,
also try the LOW end Monsters for similar reasons.
Also, if you have a good relationship wiht a local dealer they will
usually let you try out several for a few days.
Remember, the goal is to add some capacitance so really good high end
cables from Nordost or Kimber may go in the wrong direction.
On the other hand MIT may actually have cables that will be "high end"
and add enough capacitance in their little white boxes. I normally
dont' recommend MIT, but you may be one of the people who would
actually benefit from them.
You could also try making your own from good quality Cardas connectors
and high quality belden wires and put in little caps in the
connectors. Don't know what values to try though. Unfortunatly the
smallest caps are ceramics and they're highly microphonic (no BS, fact,
if you don't beleive me, put them in series with a cable and knock them
around, and listen). The good quality caps are all usually pretty
large. You may be able to compensate by getting very low voltage
ratings for them, you only need around a 5-10 V breakdown voltage, most
polystyrene/polypropelyne/metallized polyester film types start at 250
Volts.
Best Wishes,
Nigel
In article <mGe55.39545$FC6.8...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
Steve Zipser
cited author.]
In article <8j3noe$md4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, nigel_...@my-deja.com
says...
> 2) Get CD cables with high capacitance to mellow out the sound.
>
HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MARBLES?
This is a guarantied way to BRIGHTEN the sound.
Zip
--
Sunshine Stereo, Inc http://www.sunshinestereo.com Tel: 305-757-9358
9535 Biscayne Blvd Miami Shores, FL 33138 Fax: 305-757-1367
Conrad Johnson Cal Audio Labs Spectron Parasound PASS Labs Gallo Davis
Audible Illusions Straightwire Niles Oracle Faroudja Rega Benz-Micro
Dunlavy Lexicon Volksamp VUTEC EAD CleanLines Monster RUNCO ESP PS Audio
Nakamichi Genelec Solid Steel Camelot Salamander Audio Logic Seleco PSB
Nothin like Baseball in the big ball orchard in da Bronx!
Arny Krueger
"Steve Zipser" <z...@sunshinestereo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.13c0ac8ae...@news.mia.bellsouth.net...
> [This followup was posted to rec.audio.opinion and a copy was sent
to the
> cited author.]
>
> In article <8j3noe$md4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, nigel_...@my-deja.com
> says...
> > 2) Get CD cables with high capacitance to mellow out the sound.
> >
> HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MARBLES?
> This is a guarantied way to BRIGHTEN the sound.
Depending on the CD player it can go either way, but it is generally
ineffective.
Kenneth Kirkpatrick
think ML makes some very good gear, but it is not to my taste either. I once
owned the ML 380 S preamp. It placed a similar sterile electronic signature on
the music. I personally gave up on solid state and went back to tubes. I have
never been happier except for the occasional tube related failure. My suggestion
is to just pull the plug on that amp and move on, before you watch TV all of the
time. Don't feel bad. My mistakes are far worse than this little wrong turn.
Cheers, Ken
"Bart A. Lane" wrote:
> On my life's list of ten greatest mistakes this will be one of them.
>
> The NAD 317 80wpc integrated amp I bought off ebay for $400 absolutely blows
> away the Mark Levinson no383 I replaced it with. The NAD had a very warm,
> mellow sound when cranked up while the Levinson totally loses its cheese.
> Voices get distorted, Midrange, ear-hurting tones are exaggerated and very
> high ranges sound artificial. I just can't believe it. I wish I had that
> NAD back and I wish I had the total waste of $4000 I spent on the Mark
> Levinson. I will never buy another one of their products again.
>
> Could it be my speakers that don't work well with the 383? They are PSB
> Stratus Goldi. Maybe they were a good match for my NAD but not the
> Levinson. I was thinking of giving a set of B&W 801 Nautilus loudspeakers
> an audition here. I would be happy if it sounded as good as it did before.
> One thing though, the Levinson looks and feels good but as every day passes
> I begin to hate it more and more.
>
Jerry
unit. If you still get the same results why not return or exchange it for
something else ? I suspect your responce to the amp could change over time
after working through your buyer's remorse in RAO therapy sessions, but the amp
probably won't. :)
Good Luck,
Jerry
ericDONOTS...@eudoramail.com
target... This is extremely distressing to hear, however. About 16
years ago I was in a hifi shop in Denver called ListenUp. We listened
to what I believe was the first model 500 w/p/c Levinson Power Amp, a
first model Levinson preamp, a pair of Magneplanars (tri-fold), a
non-descript belt drive turntable, a Joe Grado cartridge and a Grace
707 tone arm.
To me the sound was breathtaking... I still remember THAT system as
being the best I have/had ever heard. Ever.
I hope you find that the flaw is elsewhere in your system.
Eric
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:29:05 GMT, Kenneth Kirkpatrick
<ken...@gte.net> wrote:
>Bart, Most all of us have made one of these expensive mistakes. I personally
>think ML makes some very good gear, but it is not to my taste either. I once
>owned the ML 380 S preamp. It placed a similar sterile electronic signature on
>the music. I personally gave up on solid state and went back to tubes. I have
>never been happier except for the occasional tube related failure. My suggestion
>is to just pull the plug on that amp and move on, before you watch TV all of the
>time. Don't feel bad. My mistakes are far worse than this little wrong turn.
>Cheers, Ken
>
Trevor Wilson
<ericDONOTS...@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:vt4gls85dfqtpmpr3...@4ax.com...
> I have not heard a Levinson in a long (loonngg) time, so you may be on
> target... This is extremely distressing to hear, however. About 16
> years ago I was in a hifi shop in Denver called ListenUp. We listened
> to what I believe was the first model 500 w/p/c Levinson Power Amp, a
> first model Levinson preamp, a pair of Magneplanars (tri-fold), a
> non-descript belt drive turntable, a Joe Grado cartridge and a Grace
> 707 tone arm.
>
> To me the sound was breathtaking... I still remember THAT system as
> being the best I have/had ever heard. Ever.
>
> I hope you find that the flaw is elsewhere in your system.
>
**If you read the entire thread, you will note that after my questioning,
Bart acknowledged that his recordings were at fault. Kind of closes the
matter.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
ericDONOTS...@eudoramail.com
>Mark Levinson products have always sounded sterile with a 2
>dimensional sound that seems to add an electronic glaze to the music
>to my ears.
Nope, the system I heard 14 years ago with ML electronics was as 3D as
you could get.
eric
Bart A. Lane
It seems like more of my software sounds bad than sounds good. I need to
find a way to tone down these overly pronounced, ear splitting midranges!!!
These same recordings sound great on lesser expensive hardware so surely
they can be made to sound good on better stuff. I know there must be other
ML owners out there who like Tom Petty.
--
Bart A. Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
Remove hash marks to contact
"Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:b_U55.5414$Sn2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Steve Zipser
cited author.]
In article <wPW55.3120$_b3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net says...
> Except for me. I still am hoping to find a way to enjoy the music I like.
> It seems like more of my software sounds bad than sounds good. I need to
> find a way to tone down these overly pronounced, ear splitting midranges!!!
> These same recordings sound great on lesser expensive hardware so surely
> they can be made to sound good on better stuff. I know there must be other
> ML owners out there who like Tom Petty.
Bart:
Don't ditch the speakers, you need some tubes in that system - and some
room tunes.
ericDONOTS...@eudoramail.com
refreshed the whole thing and read your comments.
I used to believe, as you, that high end audio equipment can reveal
inadquacies in the recordings. I have a pair of JBL Studio Monitors
(the real ones) that do just that.
Over the years, however, I've come to the conclusion that one of the
differences between "audiophile" equipment and "studio" equipment is
that the audiophile gear makes most everything sound better.
Case in point: the recordings I was listening to in Denver were off
the shelf, pretty regular records -- not Mobile Fidelity or Half
Speed, etc. One example that I vividly remember was Rivers of Babylon
by Linda Ronstadt. Now, we all know that that is an Aphex aural
enhanced recording with a pretty lo-fi sound on most systems. On the
system I described below, the sound was utterly amazing. It was so
lifelike that you could "see" the musicians on stage, their fingers on
the fretboard of the guitar.
We listened to some other "regular" abums as well and they were quite
thrilling.
I've never heard anything like it, before or since.
I'd guess that there are some other components to his
equipment/environment/setup that are in serious need for improvement
if, in fact, the ML is not the problem.
That said, there's no doubt that better source material can make an
incredible difference in the sound.
Eric
Bart A. Lane
Did you get to listen to any of your own stuff? Just wondering if they
picked pieces that highlighted the system strengths. That sounds like a
pretty good day to me though.
--
Bart A Lane
bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
remove hash marks to reply
<ericDONOTS...@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:i7eglscbn5900suva...@4ax.com...
Arny Krueger
"Bart A. Lane" <bart...@bogus.bogus.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:wPW55.3120$_b3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Except for me. I still am hoping to find a way to enjoy the music
I like.
> It seems like more of my software sounds bad than sounds good. I
need to
> find a way to tone down these overly pronounced, ear splitting
midranges!!!
> These same recordings sound great on lesser expensive hardware so
surely
> they can be made to sound good on better stuff. I know there must
be other
> ML owners out there who like Tom Petty.
>
Fix the room?
ericDONOTS...@eudoramail.com
of your all time favorities -- popular over the last 10 years. I
hadn't heard the Linda Ronstadt before, but I picked album because of
the cover photograph -- have you seen it? ;-)
Kenneth Kirkpatrick
where I only had a few cd's that I could listen to all the way through. I
started watching tv. My system at that time was Hales Trancendace 8's, Classe
CA 300 amps in monoblock, Wadia 860 cd player, Mark Levinson 380S preamp and
Cardas Golden cross wires. Should sound pretty good. It sucked. In my room, it
just didn't work. Fatiguing big time. So out with the Hales, in with the Sonus
Faber Amati's. Big help! But not just right. Brought in a CAT Ultimate preamp.
Big help, but not there yet. Brought in CAT JL-1 tube amps, big ,big help. I am
having fun now, but still something not right. Bring out the analog big guns.
Bought a used Basis Debut vacuum table, Graham arm, Benz Ruby 2 cartridge. End
of story. Lp after lp, old, new, classical, jazz, etc. all musical. I had to
put a Siltec cable on the table to get it balanced just right, but detail, air,
sound stage, it is all there in spades and never fatiguing. Long story, but I
fully agree with Zip on this one. Get some tubes in that room. Cheers, Ken
"Bart A. Lane" wrote:
> Except for me. I still am hoping to find a way to enjoy the music I like.
> It seems like more of my software sounds bad than sounds good. I need to
> find a way to tone down these overly pronounced, ear splitting midranges!!!
> These same recordings sound great on lesser expensive hardware so surely
> they can be made to sound good on better stuff. I know there must be other
> ML owners out there who like Tom Petty.
>
> --
>
> Bart A. Lane
> bartlane@e/a/r/t/h/l/i/n/k.net
> Remove hash marks to contact
>
> "Trevor Wilson" <tre...@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
> news:b_U55.5414$Sn2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
> > <ericDONOTS...@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
> > news:vt4gls85dfqtpmpr3...@4ax.com...
> > > I have not heard a Levinson in a long (loonngg) time, so you may be on
> > > target... This is extremely distressing to hear, however. About 16
> > > years ago I was in a hifi shop in Denver called ListenUp. We listened
> > > to what I believe was the first model 500 w/p/c Levinson Power Amp, a
> > > first model Levinson preamp, a pair of Magneplanars (tri-fold), a
> > > non-descript belt drive turntable, a Joe Grado cartridge and a Grace
> > > 707 tone arm.
> > >
> > > To me the sound was breathtaking... I still remember THAT system as
> > > being the best I have/had ever heard. Ever.
> > >
> > > I hope you find that the flaw is elsewhere in your system.
> > >
> >
> > **If you read the entire thread, you will note that after my questioning,
> > Bart acknowledged that his recordings were at fault. Kind of closes the
> > matter.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Trevor Wilson
> > www.rageaudio.com.au
> >
> >
> >
Kenneth Kirkpatrick
electronics and source material, I think I could bring those Hales T-8's back into
the system and they would be musical. I no longer have them, or I would try them
out. My personal hunch is that if I had the tubes and analog first, the Hales would
have been wonderful. As good as my Sonus Faber Amati's? No way, but very good
though. Cheers, Ken
Trevor Wilson
"Brian L. McCarty" <opera...@worldjazz.com> wrote in message
news:B57F6117.28931%opera...@worldjazz.com...
> in article 3958B588...@gte.net, Kenneth Kirkpatrick at
ken...@gte.net
> wrote on 28/6/00 0:17:
>
>
> > Long story, but I
> > fully agree with Zip on this one. Get some tubes in that room
>
> .famously quoted as saying "tubes is for boobs". . .
>
**Er, I think that would be ROOM TUBES.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
nigel_...@my-deja.com
Any member of the Traveling Wilbury's will sound like crap when on a
decent playback system. <G>
Sorry, had to get that one in there,
Nigel
In article <wPW55.3120$_b3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
Max Holubitsky
A high capacitance cable will form a low pass filter -> i.e. it will roll off
the high frequencies. This is exactly how tone controls work, using a
combination of capacitors and resistors to modify frequency response (the
resistance in this case is the output resistance of your DAC in parallel with
the input impedance of your amp). Since the output impedance of your DAC is
probably very low, your cable would have to be very long or of very high
capacitance for any effect to be noticed. Note that since the values of the
capacitance or impedances are not known the outcome might not be too
predictable.
An easier way to soften the sound would be to either add some EQ (why not put
an eq in the ML's tape loop, exclusivly for use with low quality recordings,
and knock down the treble a few dB's?), or get speakers whose treble rolls
off earlier (also a form of eq).
Good luck with all this
Max
Steve Zipser wrote:
> [This followup was posted to rec.audio.opinion and a copy was sent to the
> cited author.]
>
> In article <8j3noe$md4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, nigel_...@my-deja.com
> says...
> > 2) Get CD cables with high capacitance to mellow out the sound.
> >
> HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MARBLES?
> This is a guarantied way to BRIGHTEN the sound.