meridian CD players
Craig M. Bereznoff
I am considering the Meridian 506 or 508 CD player.
I would appreciate any and all positive or negative feedback.
Is there something else that will give me the same sound for less bucks?
Thanks
Craig M. Bereznoff
Jay B. Haider
>I am considering the Meridian 506 or 508 CD player.
A friend has a system with the 506 feeding Sonus Faber Concertos
via Meridian 501 pre and Adcom GFA-5400 amp. Sounds nice, given his
placement constraints. Another has a balls-to-the-wall system with a
Meridian 508.20 driving Martin-Logan Quests and a custom subwoofer via
Sonic Frontiers Line-2 pre and Classe CA-200 amp. Sounds phenomenal,
due to attention to details such as room treatments. The 508.20
certainly isn't the weakest link! 8o)
As far as technical specs go, I think that the Meridian 508.24 and
Sony XA7ES are the two to beat, regardless of price. The Meridian
(IMO) looks better, is smaller, and certainly has a better remote.
Jay B. Haider
Class of 2000, Sam Nunn School of International Affairs (Georgia Tech)
"When you're wrong, don't be upset, but rather rejoice, for you're
about to learn something." -Dr James Herod
"Vanity; stupidity; duplicity; lack of ability: these need not impede
a successful political career" - Bagehot, from "The Economist"
Stewart Pinkerton
"Craig M. Bereznoff" <nospam-...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>I am considering the Meridian 506 or 508 CD player.
>I would appreciate any and all positive or negative feedback.
>Is there something else that will give me the same sound for less bucks?
The new 506.20 builds on the experience gained with the 508.20, to
make a player which is arguably the best below $2,000. The new 508.24
is arguably the best at *any* price. These are personal opinions of
course, but it is a fact that Meridian has been making 'audiophile' CD
players longer than anyone else, and this experience shows.......
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Stewart:
Someday, you might actually get to hear one of those Meridians, Stewart!
Then we'll take those opinions as possibly real - I actually think the
Sony X7ES is better. Yesterday, two of my customers compared said 24/96
Meridian to the Camelot Uther/Merlin combo and they found the Camelots
to be seriously better.
Camelot's Morganna is under $2000, and uses the SAME 24/96 chip as the
Meridian. In addition it has balanced & single ended outputs, AND it
also has enough juice to drive power amplifiers directly. I guess the
only thing wrong with the Morganna is that Bob Stuart had nothing to do
with its design - much to the chagrin of closet anglophiles.
Cheers
Zip
> --
>
> Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
--
Sunshine Stereo, Inc
Tel: 305-757-9358 Fax: 305-757-1367
9535 Biscayne Blvd.
Miami Shores, FL 33138
PASS Labs Carver Lightstar CODA Jadis Audible Illusions
Camelot Technology Audio Logic CEC Parasound Kinergetics
Chiro Benz Micro Gallo Acoustics Dunlavy Audio NEAR NHT
Cabasse Niles Zenith INTEQ Crystal Vision Straightwire
Rega Cleanlines by Vans Evers ENTECH by Monster Cable ESP
Arcane Audio Labs and a whole lot more :-)
Steve & Gigi want you to ENJOY THE MUSIC!
DO NOT USE COMPUSERVE
THEY RIPPED US OFF FOR TWO YEARS SERVICE
They told us to take a hike
NEVER USE COMPUSERVE
Rodney Gold
"Craig M. Bereznoff" <nospam-...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I am considering the Meridian 506 or 508 CD player.
>I would appreciate any and all positive or negative feedback.
>Is there something else that will give me the same sound for less bucks?
>
>Thanks
The Meridians are excellent players , I cant talk for the 506 series ,
but can for the 508.20 and 508.24 , they are players that have an
exceptional tonal balance , extract huge amounts of detail from the
recordings without being etched and promote an expansive soundstage
with very "airy" recordings , somewhat more polite in bass and impact
than the Krell or Theta offerings.
the 508.24 is the one to go for , being a subtle yet worthwhile
improvement over the 508.20 (which is no slouch , and is an excellent
option if financially challenged - it can be upgraded to .24 specs
too)
They are CD players for folk who listen to rather than analyse music
and will serve you well throughout your whole CD collection , they are
well built and reliable machines.
The only minor niggle is that they dont display the total no of tracks
while the CD is playing , just the track no and time info of the
current track (tho they do display total no when loading or stopped)
The 508 makes a superb transport too , competing with units at up to
5x the price.
Try one , see if you like it.
Rodney Gold
"The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is-
the feeling you get when you stop."
Johnny Y Boey
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
> "Craig M. Bereznoff" <nospam-...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
> >I am considering the Meridian 506 or 508 CD player.
> >I would appreciate any and all positive or negative feedback.
> >Is there something else that will give me the same sound for less bucks?
>
> The new 506.20 builds on the experience gained with the 508.20, to
> make a player which is arguably the best below $2,000. The new 508.24
> is arguably the best at *any* price. These are personal opinions of
> course,
Yes, and this is personal opinion of someone who has limited experience with
highend digital playback systems. Everything expensive is overpriced to him.
The ML transport/DAC are crap to him cause they are expensive. Now that they
come up with the relatively cheap N0.39 one-box player, he's starting to
recommend it. What a joke!! We can clearly see the trend now.
Have you even played with the 508-24?
JB
Johnny Y Boey
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
> > The new 506.20 builds on the experience gained with the 508.20, to
> > make a player which is arguably the best below $2,000. The new 508.24
> > is arguably the best at *any* price. These are personal opinions of
> > course, but it is a fact that Meridian has been making 'audiophile' CD
> > players longer than anyone else, and this experience shows.......
>
> Stewart:
> Someday, you might actually get to hear one of those Meridians, Stewart!
> Then we'll take those opinions as possibly real - I actually think the
> Sony X7ES is better. Yesterday, two of my customers compared said 24/96
> Meridian to the Camelot Uther/Merlin combo and they found the Camelots
> to be seriously better.
>
> Camelot's Morganna is under $2000, and uses the SAME 24/96 chip as the
> Meridian. In addition it has balanced & single ended outputs, AND it
> also has enough juice to drive power amplifiers directly. I guess the
> only thing wrong with the Morganna is that Bob Stuart had nothing to do
> with its design - much to the chagrin of closet anglophiles.
>
but is the Morganna a truly balanced design? Is it available yet?
JB
Rodney Gold
"Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)" <z...@sunshinestereo.com> wrote:
>
>Stewart:
>Someday, you might actually get to hear one of those Meridians, Stewart!
>Then we'll take those opinions as possibly real - I actually think the
>Sony X7ES is better. Yesterday, two of my customers compared said 24/96
>Meridian to the Camelot Uther/Merlin combo and they found the Camelots
>to be seriously better.
>
>Camelot's Morganna is under $2000, and uses the SAME 24/96 chip as the
>Meridian. In addition it has balanced & single ended outputs, AND it
>also has enough juice to drive power amplifiers directly. I guess the
>only thing wrong with the Morganna is that Bob Stuart had nothing to do
>with its design - much to the chagrin of closet anglophiles.
Umm - I didnt know it was a 24/96 design , I thought it was just a 24
bit dac board (No it isnt just a chip replacement over the .20)
Having compared the Sony to the original 508.20 and finding the 508
better in the bass and having somewhat more air , I think the opinions
as to which is better are very subjective , the .24 is an improvement
over the 20. The Sony has many more bells and whistles than the
Meridian unit as well as the variable outputs
Meridan also has balanced and single ended outputs , and I would
imagine the 2v output is enuff to drive a power amp ?
The Meridian has one advantage over the Camelot however , it is an
established and proven product , with a long term record of reliablity
, not that I am saying the Camelot is at all unreliable , but an
established record does count for something.
Forget the anglophile angle , the Meridian is really a very good
player Steve, dont knock it , no one knocked the Camelot;)
Sergey Korshunov
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
> Camelot's Morganna is under $2000, and uses the SAME 24/96 chip as the
> Meridian. In addition it has balanced & single ended outputs, AND it
> also has enough juice to drive power amplifiers directly. I guess the
> only thing wrong with the Morganna is that Bob Stuart had nothing to do
> with its design - much to the chagrin of closet anglophiles.
>
> Cheers
> Zip
New Audilab 8000CD is under $2000 and uses the same chip as Meridian
508.20 (the same is true for Meridian 506.20). This still doesnot prove
which is better.
Meridian 508.24 is using the chip which according to Crystal
Seminoductors website works up to 50 Mhz. How is it possible to make
a 96Mhz player (as Camelot's advertaizing claims) based on this chip?
Sergey
Sergey Korshunov
Rodney Gold wrote:
> The Meridians are excellent players , I cant talk for the 506 series ,
> but can for the 508.20 and 508.24 , they are players that have an
> exceptional tonal balance , extract huge amounts of detail from the
> recordings without being etched and promote an expansive soundstage
> with very "airy" recordings , somewhat more polite in bass and impact
> than the Krell or Theta offerings.
> They are CD players for folk who listen to rather than analyse music
> and will serve you well throughout your whole CD collection , they are
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> well built and reliable machines.
Do You mean that the advantages of these players can be enjoyed when
using "ordinary" CDs by major classic music labels (with, say, 10 year
old A/D transfer which presumably has been less perfect then these days)
and not only on special "audiophile" CDs?
Does not the quality of A/D transfer become a limiting factor?
Sergey.
Rodney Gold
Sergey Korshunov <ser...@dtutnto.tn.tudelft.nl> wrote:
>Do You mean that the advantages of these players can be enjoyed when
>using "ordinary" CDs by major classic music labels (with, say, 10 year
>old A/D transfer which presumably has been less perfect then these days)
>and not only on special "audiophile" CDs?
>Does not the quality of A/D transfer become a limiting factor?
>
>Sergey.
A poor Cd will tend to sound poor no matter what system you play it on
, but a poor cd with quantisation noise etc can be made a lot worse
where a CDP has a distinct electronic glare or hardness to it , the
Meridian players do not add these artefacts to the recording , thus
making the lesser quality CD's more bearable , neither do they tend to
the bright side of things or give a flat presentation , which would
also tend to highlight the bad , the Transport of the 508 is
exceptional , and lets say , comparing it to an Arcam delta 250
transport , it is streets ahead in terms of ambience , air , low level
detail and timbral accuracy. The arcam tends to sound "hard".
A/D transfer even if done in 14 bits can sound quite good so long as
high bit recordings arent grossly truncated or the recording engineer
hasnt done complex operations on the sound in the digital domain
without due care , problems arise with digital eq , compression , gain
and attn. and high bit recorded signals being either transferred
without dither or as I have mentioned , being severly truncated.
Its not really the Dynamic range that is the problem , it is the
distortion products that are.
Meridian dont tend to make over analytical gear , and as I mentioned
in a previous post , there are other CDP's that can beat it in certain
aspects , but overall it is a very satisfying package.
From personal experience and testing (I dont want to open a can of
worms here) I have found that transports and digital interconnects are
as important in the reproduction chain as are DACS.
The point I was making , is that I have heard plenty mega buck systems
, with top of the range monster x/port -dacs sound like real junk on
anything but the most pristine recording , I would rather compromise
somewhat and enjoy my full collection.
I feel the Meridian allows this without over compromising.
Grommit9
>They are CD players for folk who listen to rather than analyse music
but that would take all the fun out of it for audiophiles :)
i think the audio industry would be better served if everyone took your
advice, rodney.
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Rodney:
You were wrong about the Meridian 508-20. You stated it was only 24/50
and that is not true. It is 96k capable, and if you bothered reading
Wes Phillips review of the player, he actually mentioned that he PLAYED
the new 24/96 demo discs he had on hand.
The Camelot Morganna has the same chip - but will not play 24/96 format
since it does not have a DVD transport. The DAC from the Morganna will
eventually be available and will enable ANY DVD player to play the
upcoming 24/96 format discs.
Cheers
Zip
Rodney Gold
"Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)" <z...@sunshinestereo.com> wrote:
>Rodney:
>You were wrong about the Meridian 508-20. You stated it was only 24/50
>and that is not true. It is 96k capable, and if you bothered reading
>Wes Phillips review of the player, he actually mentioned that he PLAYED
>the new 24/96 demo discs he had on hand.
Actually my exact words were
*Umm - I didnt know it was a 24/96 design , I thought it was just a 24
bit dac board (No it isnt just a chip replacement over the .20)*
I think it was Sergey who was proclaiming that 24/50 fact.
Funny tho , Meridian stress the 24 thing , but dont mention the 96k
thingy , Rather silly of them , as it is some pretty good advertising
copy and could garner them some serious mileage.
The Spec sheets Crystal sent me with some samples of their 24 bit DAC
chips never made a hoohah about it either , But I will have another
look at 'em , maybe I missed something.
I havent read the Wes P article.
Stewart Pinkerton
Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
>
>> > The new 506.20 builds on the experience gained with the 508.20, to
>> > make a player which is arguably the best below $2,000. The new 508.24
>> > is arguably the best at *any* price. These are personal opinions of
>> > course, but it is a fact that Meridian has been making 'audiophile' CD
>> > players longer than anyone else, and this experience shows.......
>>
>> Stewart:
>> Someday, you might actually get to hear one of those Meridians, Stewart!
>> Then we'll take those opinions as possibly real - I actually think the
>> Sony X7ES is better. Yesterday, two of my customers compared said 24/96
>> Meridian to the Camelot Uther/Merlin combo and they found the Camelots
>> to be seriously better.
I've had the 506.20 at home thanks very much, and I've heard it 'back
to back' with the 508.24 also, in a different system. I've not heard
the XA7ES vs the 508.24, but it's been reliably reported as virtually
identical to the 508.20 in an ultra high-res studio mastering setup,
which would suggest that the 508.24 has the legs of it. However, I
would have no argument with a prefernce either way, since the XA7ES is
definitely one of the ultimate CD sources. I can't imagine how any
customer of yours would fail to 'discover' that Camelot products were
'seriously better' than a product you don't sell. After all, you'd be
a pretty poor salesman if you couldn't make that happen for them.....
Incidentally, oh great audio professional, the 508.24 isn't a 24/96
machine, it just uses the '24 bit' Crystal CS4390 DAC chip.
>> Camelot's Morganna is under $2000, and uses the SAME 24/96 chip as the
>> Meridian.
As Meridian showed with the 506.20 vs the older 508.20, it's not the
chip that counts, it's how well you use it. Meridian's long experience
with Crystal DACs shows in their latest products.
>> In addition it has balanced & single ended outputs, AND it
>> also has enough juice to drive power amplifiers directly. I guess the
>> only thing wrong with the Morganna is that Bob Stuart had nothing to do
>> with its design - much to the chagrin of closet anglophiles.
I'd agree that CD players with integral volume controls are probably
the ultimate solution, if you only want one source in your system. Who
knows what the Morganna sounds like? It may be excellent, it may
simply be average for the price. Incidentally, I think the Krell KPS
20iL is also an excellent design, and Bob sure as heck had nothing to
do with that one! Save your cheap shots for easier targets, Zip.
>but is the Morganna a truly balanced design? Is it available yet?
>
>JB
Speaking of easier targets.... :-)
These are fair questions though.
Sergey Korshunov
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
> You were wrong about the Meridian 508-20. You stated it was only 24/50
> and that is not true. It is 96k capable, and if you bothered reading
> Wes Phillips review of the player, he actually mentioned that he PLAYED
> the new 24/96 demo discs he had on hand.
>
> since it does not have a DVD transport. The DAC from the Morganna will
> eventually be available and will enable ANY DVD player to play the
> upcoming 24/96 format discs.
The number of 50Mhz (for CS4390) comes from Crystal Semiconductors
website, are they mistaken?
Meridian's advertising for 508.24 does not mention its ability
to play any other format, maybe they do not know about it?
Sergey.
Edward Derson Hou
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
> Rodney:
> You were wrong about the Meridian 508-20. You stated it was only 24/50
> and that is not true. It is 96k capable, and if you bothered reading
> Wes Phillips review of the player, he actually mentioned that he PLAYED
> the new 24/96 demo discs he had on hand.
>
> The Camelot Morganna has the same chip - but will not play 24/96 format
> since it does not have a DVD transport. The DAC from the Morganna will
> eventually be available and will enable ANY DVD player to play the
> upcoming 24/96 format discs.
>
> Cheers
> Zip
any advance word on why types of inputs will appear on that DAC?
THanks
-Eddie
Johnny Y Boey
Sergey Korshunov wrote:
> Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
>
> > Camelot's Morganna is under $2000, and uses the SAME 24/96 chip as the
> > Meridian. In addition it has balanced & single ended outputs, AND it
> > also has enough juice to drive power amplifiers directly. I guess the
> > only thing wrong with the Morganna is that Bob Stuart had nothing to do
> > with its design - much to the chagrin of closet anglophiles.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Zip
>
> New Audilab 8000CD is under $2000 and uses the same chip as Meridian
> 508.20 (the same is true for Meridian 506.20). This still doesnot prove
> which is better.
>
> Meridian 508.24 is using the chip which according to Crystal
> Seminoductors website works up to 50 Mhz. How is it possible to make
> a 96Mhz player (as Camelot's advertaizing claims) based on this chip?
>
MHz!!!!! Is that necessary?
Sergey Korshunov
Johnny Y Boey wrote:
> Sergey Korshunov wrote:
> > Meridian 508.24 is using the chip which according to Crystal
> > Seminoductors website works up to 50 Mhz. How is it possible to make
> > a 96Mhz player (as Camelot's advertaizing claims) based on this chip?
> >
>
> MHz!!!!! Is that necessary?
Sorry for mistake - certainly they are kHz.
Jeff Adams
As much as I like the sound of the Merridian 508.20 (haven't heard the
.24 yet - I haven't wanted to tempt myself...), I own a Z-Systems
RDP-1 digital EQ/Preamp which goes between a transport and DAC... So
far I haven't seen any one-box players with both digital in's and
out's - yes, I know, on the surface it would seem there was no real
purpose to have both, but, for someone like me (and the owners of
other RDP-1's and other digital eq/preamps), it would be helpful...
For instance, the latest Adcom GCD-750 has digital in but no digital
out! Go figure!
So, ok, a two-box solution seems like my only choice at this point...
Does Meridian make a 508.24 without the transport yet? :-) Is there
any sort of consensus in the late Gabe Weiner's circle regarding DACs
like there sort of is with the 508.20/24?
======CORRECT EMAIL: remove the xyz======================================
| Jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com) | GTE Electronic Systems Division |
| 415-966-2122 | Mountain View, CA U.S.A. |
| All opinions are mine and not my employer or internet access provider. |
==========================================================================
Stewart Pinkerton
Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
>> "Craig M. Bereznoff" <nospam-...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>>
>> >I am considering the Meridian 506 or 508 CD player.
>> >I would appreciate any and all positive or negative feedback.
>> >Is there something else that will give me the same sound for less bucks?
>>
>> The new 506.20 builds on the experience gained with the 508.20, to
>> make a player which is arguably the best below $2,000. The new 508.24
>> is arguably the best at *any* price. These are personal opinions of
>> course,
>
>Yes, and this is personal opinion of someone who has limited experience with
>highend digital playback systems. Everything expensive is overpriced to him.
>The ML transport/DAC are crap to him cause they are expensive. Now that they
>come up with the relatively cheap N0.39 one-box player, he's starting to
>recommend it. What a joke!! We can clearly see the trend now.
'Relatively cheap' is still over $10,000 in the UK, you putz.....
Nope, it's just that they have put some good parts into a single box
and finally appear to be getting their act together, as Krell finally
cracked digital with the KPS20il after a run of dogs. Oh damn, did I
just recommend a $10,000 player? Boey, you are pathetic.......
Incidentally, the only reason I would recommend the KPS20il or No. 39
over the 508.24 is because they can be hooked directly to a power amp.
Of course, the Meridian 861 will also do this, costs less than either
of the US products over here, and will most likely trash either of
them with any old transport, although I have not heard it outside of a
show.
>Have you even played with the 508-24?
I never play.............. but yes.
Stewart Pinkerton
"Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)" <z...@sunshinestereo.com> writes:
>Rodney:
>You were wrong about the Meridian 508-20. You stated it was only 24/50
>and that is not true. It is 96k capable, and if you bothered reading
>Wes Phillips review of the player, he actually mentioned that he PLAYED
>the new 24/96 demo discs he had on hand.
I'd check that if I were you - it almost certainly does a digital
downconvert to 24/48 if it is capable of playing a 24/96 disc. While
this may be regarded as '96k capable', it's not really the same thing!
>The Camelot Morganna has the same chip - but will not play 24/96 format
>since it does not have a DVD transport.
Or a 96k DAC chip................
> The DAC from the Morganna will
>eventually be available and will enable ANY DVD player to play the
>upcoming 24/96 format discs.
But will it play them at 24/96 resolution and bit rate? No.
Stewart Pinkerton
Sergey Korshunov <ser...@dtutnto.tn.tudelft.nl> writes:
>Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
>
>> Camelot's Morganna is under $2000, and uses the SAME 24/96 chip as the
>> Meridian. In addition it has balanced & single ended outputs, AND it
>> also has enough juice to drive power amplifiers directly. I guess the
>> only thing wrong with the Morganna is that Bob Stuart had nothing to do
>> with its design - much to the chagrin of closet anglophiles.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Zip
>
>New Audilab 8000CD is under $2000 and uses the same chip as Meridian
>508.20 (the same is true for Meridian 506.20). This still doesnot prove
>which is better.
True, and the 8000CD was technically superior to the 508.20, although
never as popular in the marketplace.
>Meridian 508.24 is using the chip which according to Crystal
>Seminoductors website works up to 50 Mhz. How is it possible to make
>a 96Mhz player (as Camelot's advertaizing claims) based on this chip?
The player can downconvert to 48k by throwing away every other sample,
and will then replay a 96k disc.
Rodney Gold
>As much as I like the sound of the Merridian 508.20 (haven't heard the
>.24 yet - I haven't wanted to tempt myself...), I own a Z-Systems
>RDP-1 digital EQ/Preamp which goes between a transport and DAC... So
>far I haven't seen any one-box players with both digital in's and
>out's - yes, I know, on the surface it would seem there was no real
>purpose to have both, but, for someone like me (and the owners of
>other RDP-1's and other digital eq/preamps), it would be helpful...
>For instance, the latest Adcom GCD-750 has digital in but no digital
>out! Go figure!
>
>So, ok, a two-box solution seems like my only choice at this point...
>Does Meridian make a 508.24 without the transport yet? :-) Is there
>any sort of consensus in the late Gabe Weiner's circle regarding DACs
>like there sort of is with the 508.20/24?
Yep , there are 1 box solutuions that can be split , the ML#39 , Krell
KPS20i, The Wadias etc , but are pretty expensive.
I use the RDP1 as well , and use a 508.20 as a transport (I have DSP
speakers), and belive it or not , as a transport only , it is well
worth the money , having compared it to the likes of the ML #31.5 ,
the Theta Data Basic III , Arcam Delta 250 , Rotel 980 , Wadia (I
forget the no) , and the Micromega , it loses almost nothing to the
mega buck units and beats the cheaper stuff by miles.
I am pretty certian the Meridian 566 is coming in 24 bit format , and
a pretty good combination would be the Meridian 586 DVD player as a
transport , and a 24 bit 566 , or even better , the Meridian 500
transport via the RDP-1 , into a meridian 518 mastering processor and
thence into a 24 bit 566.
You could of course take the really simple option and get a set of
Meridian DSP6000's or the T+A DSP speakers (never heard em , but the
initial impressions and descriptions of how they work sound REALLY
promising) , a transport and the RDP-1 for a pretty Simple setup.
My DAC in the 508.20 is not entirely wasted , as I run the output into
a class A headphone amp , and listen to my senheisser 600's thru it.
It would be interesting to find out if perhaps it is not too difficult
to modify the meridian to accept a digtital input ? I will ask
Meridian about this.
By the way , YOU MUST try or get the Z-sys 24 bit RADC-2 AD convertor
. it is an inexpensive piece of gear , it is stunning in its sound
quality , to an extent that I would have no reservation of running a
high quality analog front end thru it.
I did a direct comparison tween running the DAC output of the 508.20
into the AD , in then into another input on the RDP-1 , and A/Bing
this with the 508 as a transport via the RDP-1 , running into the DSP
speakers, and despite the cheap digital IC I was using , despite the
extra DAC/AD conversion and despite the extra set of analog
Interconnects , it lost absolutely nothing in the treble , mids ,
transparency , airiness etc depts , the bass however was slightly off
in terms of extension and impact to the direct mode , but that is a
very niggly comment , and is only apparent in a very critical
listening session.
At $600 or so , it is a VERY worthwhile buy to enable the maximum
flexibilty in your system ( it has 2 inputs and a single SPDIF output)
Johnny Y Boey
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
> Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
> >Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
> >
> >> "Craig M. Bereznoff" <nospam-...@worldnet.att.net> writes:
> >>
> >> >I am considering the Meridian 506 or 508 CD player.
> >> >I would appreciate any and all positive or negative feedback.
> >> >Is there something else that will give me the same sound for less bucks?
> >>
> >> The new 506.20 builds on the experience gained with the 508.20, to
> >> make a player which is arguably the best below $2,000. The new 508.24
> >> is arguably the best at *any* price. These are personal opinions of
> >> course,
> >
> >Yes, and this is personal opinion of someone who has limited experience with
> >highend digital playback systems. Everything expensive is overpriced to him.
> >The ML transport/DAC are crap to him cause they are expensive. Now that they
> >come up with the relatively cheap N0.39 one-box player, he's starting to
> >recommend it. What a joke!! We can clearly see the trend now.
>
> 'Relatively cheap' is still over $10,000 in the UK, you putz.....
>
> Nope, it's just that they have put some good parts into a single box
> and finally appear to be getting their act together, as Krell finally
> cracked digital with the KPS20il after a run of dogs. Oh damn, did I
> just recommend a $10,000 player? Boey, you are pathetic.......
>
Yeah yeah yeah. Like ML never put any quality parts in their separates. Just
admit, I got you good. You are cheap, and you think all expensive gears (that you
never played with) are overpriced.
JB
Rodney Gold
Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Yeah yeah yeah. Like ML never put any quality parts in their separates. Just
>admit, I got you good. You are cheap, and you think all expensive gears (that you
>never played with) are overpriced.
Dunno bout that JB , Stewart has recommended stuff like Meridian
DSP6000 speakers and the NAD ACT 2.2 to me , and at $17k and $8k
respectively or so , they dont seem to be cheap.
More like Stewart recommends sensible gear that happens to be good
value for money rather than overbuild and overpriced stuff that has
marginal improvement over stuff that is 1/5th of the cost.
A Case in point is the ML31.5 I tested in my system , the advantages
over the 508 used in transport mode were minimal to say the least ,
and the 508 bested it in some areas , the owner of the unit initally
came to me with it and his megabuck Purist audio Dildo-like dominus
digital interconnect with a distinct swagger and supreme confidence
that it would blow me away , He left somewhat deflated and wondering
at his purchasing wisdom, after finding the D60 at 1/10th of the PA's
price was better and his x/port wasnt the next best thing to sliced
bread , and believe me , I dont have a low res system that wouldnt
reveal differences.
Arny Krüger
Sergey Korshunov wrote in message <352A5A...@dtutnto.tn.tudelft.nl>...
>Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
>
>> Rodney:
>> You were wrong about the Meridian 508-20. You stated it was only 24/50
>> and that is not true. It is 96k capable, and if you bothered reading
>> Wes Phillips review of the player, he actually mentioned that he PLAYED
>> the new 24/96 demo discs he had on hand.
>>
>> The Camelot Morganna has the same chip - but will not play 24/96 format
>> since it does not have a DVD transport. The DAC from the Morganna will
>> eventually be available and will enable ANY DVD player to play the
>> upcoming 24/96 format discs.
>
>The number of 50Mhz (for CS4390) comes from Crystal Semiconductors
>website, are they mistaken?
The end run on this is to downconvert 96 to 48. Then, 50 kHz chips do the
job. Of course this looks like a kludge or a sham, and guess what... ;-)
Tom Melanson
I too find the 508 to be very good indeed. If Mr. Gold prefers it over the ML 31.5,
fine.
I had a Meridian 500 transport and it too was excellent. In my system, however, the
ML 31.5 has proven to be in a class by itself. The quality is such that a Digital Lens
and Meridian 518 were removed from the system and now are used only with the Cal CL-10
multi-disc player which is also used as a transport.
Specifically, the ML 31.5 provides greater: bass control and apparent extension, much
better dynamic contrasts both macro and micro and a sense of dead silence that must be
experienced to be fully appreciated. Actually, I have found no area where the ML 31.5
is not superior, but the foregoing are the most noticeable in my system.
Whether the price can be justified vis a vis the sonic improvment is a judgement each
buyer must make for themselves. I have no regrets.
I post this not to necessarily disagree with Mr. Gold, but only to offer another
perspective to those considering a state-of-the-art transport.
Tom
Rodney Gold wrote:
A Case in point is the ML31.5 I tested in my system , the advantages
> over the 508 used in transport mode were minimal to say the least ,
> and the 508 bested it in some areas ,
> Rodney Gold
Rodney Gold
Tom Melanson <win...@ntplx.net> wrote:
>I too find the 508 to be very good indeed. If Mr. Gold prefers it over the ML 31.5,
>fine.
>I had a Meridian 500 transport and it too was excellent. In my system, however, the
>ML 31.5 has proven to be in a class by itself. The quality is such that a Digital Lens
>and Meridian 518 were removed from the system and now are used only with the Cal CL-10
>multi-disc player which is also used as a transport.
>Specifically, the ML 31.5 provides greater: bass control and apparent extension, much
>better dynamic contrasts both macro and micro and a sense of dead silence that must be
>experienced to be fully appreciated. Actually, I have found no area where the ML 31.5
>is not superior, but the foregoing are the most noticeable in my system.
>Whether the price can be justified vis a vis the sonic improvment is a judgement each
>buyer must make for themselves. I have no regrets.
>I post this not to necessarily disagree with Mr. Gold, but only to offer another
>perspective to those considering a state-of-the-art transport.
>Tom
>
I too found the 31.5 to be better in pace and bass than the 508, I
wasnt all that impressed with the midrange tho , but bear in mind I
am running a full meridian DSP system , and thus there might be some
synergy involved , as to the dead silences , I must admit , on the 3
hour listening test , I didnt pay that aspect much heed.
In terms of where I thought the 508 bested it (and this too might be a
personal preference) is in the expansiveness of soundstage and
naturalness of midrange timbre (this too could be system dependant)
Perhaps the 518 had some influence in all this , I used either a D60
or PA dominus from the 31.5 into a 518 (emphasis on , dither shape D,
gain 0) and thence to a set of DSP5500's.
I must add , that the price differential here is tremendous between
the 2 X/ports's , the 31.5 goes for R65 000 (approx $14000) and the
500 transport is about R9 000 , about a 700% difference.
I must also add that prices of gear in South Africa is effectively
2.5-3x the price of stuff in the USA relative to Salarys etc.
I had a chat to Meridian as to whether the 500 outperforms the 508 as
a transport , they were non commital about this , and basically their
answer was "Depends on which dealer you talk to" , but they did make
some comment about something being better placed on the 508???
They did say however that the 586 DVD is by far their best Transport
for music applications.
Stewart Pinkerton
Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Sergey Korshunov wrote:
>
>> Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
>>
>> > Camelot's Morganna is under $2000, and uses the SAME 24/96 chip as the
>> > Meridian. In addition it has balanced & single ended outputs, AND it
>> > also has enough juice to drive power amplifiers directly. I guess the
>> > only thing wrong with the Morganna is that Bob Stuart had nothing to do
>> > with its design - much to the chagrin of closet anglophiles.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > Zip
>>
>> New Audilab 8000CD is under $2000 and uses the same chip as Meridian
>> 508.20 (the same is true for Meridian 506.20). This still doesnot prove
>> which is better.
>>
>> Meridian 508.24 is using the chip which according to Crystal
>> Seminoductors website works up to 50 Mhz. How is it possible to make
>> a 96Mhz player (as Camelot's advertaizing claims) based on this chip?
>>
>
>MHz!!!!! Is that necessary?
Oh get real, it's just a typo for kHz............
Stewart Pinkerton
rod...@aztec.co.za (Rodney Gold) writes:
>Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>Yeah yeah yeah. Like ML never put any quality parts in their separates. Just
>>admit, I got you good. You are cheap, and you think all expensive gears (that you
>>never played with) are overpriced.
I seem to missed that paricular Boey post (how will I get through the
day?), but the reply to this bit is that ML have always used quality
parts, but they couldn't previously design their way out of a paper
bag, particularly on the DAC front. The 39 player is supposed to be
noticeably better, *as well* as cheaper.
I may indeed be cheap, but I would love the $50,000 Rockport Sirius
turntable! I like expensive gear that *performs* better than cheap
gear, but this only happens in turntables and speakers. You couldn't
'get me good' with an Uzi, Boey.........
>Dunno bout that JB , Stewart has recommended stuff like Meridian
>DSP6000 speakers and the NAD ACT 2.2 to me , and at $17k and $8k
>respectively or so , they dont seem to be cheap.
>
>More like Stewart recommends sensible gear that happens to be good
>value for money rather than overbuild and overpriced stuff that has
>marginal improvement over stuff that is 1/5th of the cost.
>
>A Case in point is the ML31.5 I tested in my system , the advantages
>over the 508 used in transport mode were minimal to say the least ,
>and the 508 bested it in some areas , the owner of the unit initally
>came to me with it and his megabuck Purist audio Dildo-like dominus
>digital interconnect with a distinct swagger and supreme confidence
>that it would blow me away , He left somewhat deflated and wondering
>at his purchasing wisdom, after finding the D60 at 1/10th of the PA's
>price was better and his x/port wasnt the next best thing to sliced
>bread , and believe me , I dont have a low res system that wouldnt
>reveal differences.
It wasn't our Johnny Boey, was it?! :-)
Another case in point, D-60 is definitely the best 75-ohm coax link
available at *any* price, although it's certainly not cheap, and I
find it hard to believe that anyone would add a zero to that price!
Johnny Y Boey
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
I was just curious. Usually people don't repeat the same typo in more than one
posts, and twice in a single post.
JB
Johnny Y Boey
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
> rod...@aztec.co.za (Rodney Gold) writes:
>
> >Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Yeah yeah yeah. Like ML never put any quality parts in their separates. Just
> >>admit, I got you good. You are cheap, and you think all expensive gears (that you
> >>never played with) are overpriced.
>
> I seem to missed that paricular Boey post (how will I get through the
> day?), but the reply to this bit is that ML have always used quality
> parts, but they couldn't previously design their way out of a paper
> bag, particularly on the DAC front. The 39 player is supposed to be
> noticeably better, *as well* as cheaper.
>
Here he goes running his mouth again. It's alway 'expect', 'think', 'supposed' blah
blah blah. Come back when you have some real experience.
JB
Brian L. McCarty
In article <6gde05$d...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "Steve Zipser (Sunshine
> The DAC from the Morganna will
> eventually be available and will enable ANY DVD player to play
> the upcoming 24/96 format discs.
As there is yet no published standard, I wouldn't bet on it.
More nonsense from the Zipperberg!
Avalonav
upgradable, I would think it is quite reasonable to assume this, no?
Bob@Avalon AV, Medford,NJ
Home trials Support locals 609-654-7752
Lexicon,Chiro,Aragon,Bryston,Sunfire,B&K,Velodyne,Hales,Rega
Acurus,Parasound,Meadowlark,Tandberg,NEAR,Genesis,Camelot
Mirage,Seleco,Toshiba,Vidikron,Electrocompaniet,Tributaries,M&K,IEV
Jeff Adams
>As much as I like the sound of the Merridian 508.20 (haven't heard the
>.24 yet - I haven't wanted to tempt myself...), I own a Z-Systems
>RDP-1 digital EQ/Preamp which goes between a transport and DAC... So
>far I haven't seen any one-box players with both digital in's and
>out's - yes, I know, on the surface it would seem there was no real
>purpose to have both, but, for someone like me (and the owners of
>other RDP-1's and other digital eq/preamps), it would be helpful...
I just read the review of the Z-Systems RDP-1 Digital EQ/Preamp in Fi
magazine, and Jonathan Valin says, "Inserted between your transport
and your DAC or in the processor loop of single-chassis CD players,
..."
So... He is suggesting there are 1 box CD players with digital out and
digital in... Anyone know of such a one-box CD player?
Thanks,
======CORRECT EMAIL: remove the xyz======================================
| Jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com) | GTE Electronic Systems Division |
| 650-966-2122 | Mountain View, CA U.S.A. |
| Views expressed are mine and do not necessarily reflect the official |
| position of GTE or any of its subsidiaries |
==========================================================================
Rodney Gold
jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com (Jeff Adams) wrote:
>
>So... He is suggesting there are 1 box CD players with digital out and
>digital in... Anyone know of such a one-box CD player?
The Mark Levinson #39 , the Krell KPS 20i , The Bigger Wadias etc.
But having said that , I think the swing from 2 box to one box
solutions will be reversed due to new formats , the coinvergence of HT
with audio and the proliferation of transparent and high powered
digital processors , upgradability issues etc , there is another
reason to split the CDP as well with unit like the RDP-1 , you can
use a fairly long run of digital cable to the DAC which can be placed
near the speakers and amp , and have your digtal front end and other
components right at hand , I do that and the convenience is great -
real couch potato stuff , I dont have to get up to change CD's;)
Rodney Gold
"The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is-
..............................the feeling you get when you stop."
Tom Melanson
The Mark Levinson 39 at some point will be able to take its own pickup's
digital signal, feed it to an ouboard processor and back to its own
internal DAC. At this moment, it CANNOT do this. You can use it as a
transpsort to another DAC or you can use it as a DAC from another
transport, but not like a "tape loop". I know, I had one in my home and
was seriously considering it until I found I could not use it with my
SigTech room correction system.
Tom
Stewart Pinkerton
jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com (Jeff Adams) writes:
>On Tue, 7 Apr 1998 23:16:42 GMT, jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com (Jeff
>Adams) wrote:
>
>>As much as I like the sound of the Merridian 508.20 (haven't heard the
>>.24 yet - I haven't wanted to tempt myself...), I own a Z-Systems
>>RDP-1 digital EQ/Preamp which goes between a transport and DAC... So
>>far I haven't seen any one-box players with both digital in's and
>>out's - yes, I know, on the surface it would seem there was no real
>>purpose to have both, but, for someone like me (and the owners of
>>other RDP-1's and other digital eq/preamps), it would be helpful...
>
>I just read the review of the Z-Systems RDP-1 Digital EQ/Preamp in Fi
>magazine, and Jonathan Valin says, "Inserted between your transport
>and your DAC or in the processor loop of single-chassis CD players,
>..."
>
>So... He is suggesting there are 1 box CD players with digital out and
>digital in... Anyone know of such a one-box CD player?
Krell KPS-20i, Denon S-1, just for starters.
Johnny Y Boey
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
> >So... He is suggesting there are 1 box CD players with digital out and
> >digital in... Anyone know of such a one-box CD player?
>
> Krell KPS-20i, Denon S-1, just for starters.
>
much cheaper would be the CAL CL15.
Adam Fuller
Johnny Y Boey wrote in message <3530DD69...@ix.netcom.com>...
Hey John-boy- you're DEAD WRONG! The CAL CL-15 only has a digital input. It
has no digital output since CAL feels the CL-15 should be the final
destination for digital information in any system it's placed in. Kind of
arrogant on their part, but I guess that's how they want to do it.
Adam
Camelot Technology
Brian L. McCarty wrote:
>
> In article <6gde05$d...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "Steve Zipser (Sunshine
> Stereo Inc.)" <z...@sunshinestereo.com> writes:
> > The DAC from the Morganna will
> > eventually be available and will enable ANY DVD player to play
> > the upcoming 24/96 format discs.
>
> As there is yet no published standard, I wouldn't bet on it.
>
Dear Brian and all:
If the upcoming (and I use that term loosely) DVD Audio discs will play
in a DVD machine, then our upcoming outboard 24/96 DAC will play them.
Simple as that.
This projected $499 DAC, tentatively called "Arthur Plus", will be a
totally new design from the 24/96 DAC used in the Morganna 24 CD
Player. This is for one main reason. The CS 4390 DAC/Filter used in
the Morganna 24 will decode 96 kHz, but by downconverting it first to 48
kHz. This is irrelevant to the Morganna 24 anyway, as since it uses a
CD mechanism (Pioneer's Stable Platter), it couldn't read 24/96 DADs
anyway. We use it in this machine mainly for its outstanding 24-bit
capability, which allows it to achieve performance levels previously
unheard of in units at its $2195 price range.
The Arthur Plus will allow anybody to upgrade the mediocre DAC in their
DVD machines in order to play their CDs and DADs with unmatched clarity
and resolution. It also will provide a digital output for easy "loop
through" hookup to AC-3/DTS processors.
With the exception of the Morganna 24 and the Merlin PRO CD Transport,
the Arthur Plus will be the next exciting product released by our
company. Look for it in less than 90 days.
Regards,
Howard Schilling
Brian L. McCarty
In article <3530FD...@comcat.com>, Camelot Technology <cam...@comcat.com>
writes:
> If the upcoming (and I use that term loosely) DVD Audio discs will play
> in a DVD machine, then our upcoming outboard 24/96 DAC will play
> them. Simple as that.
It isn't as simple as that. There are several different proposals on the
table for audio-only DVD's, and many of the proposals use proprietary
formatting that will render your (and all) current outboard DAC's unusable.
To tell people otherwise is bordering on fraud.
Brian McCarty
Rodney Gold
Johnny Y Boey <jb...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
>> >So... He is suggesting there are 1 box CD players with digital out and
>> >digital in... Anyone know of such a one-box CD player?
>>
>> Krell KPS-20i, Denon S-1, just for starters.
>>
>
>much cheaper would be the CAL CL15.
>
Cl15 doesnt have digital out - well at least the model I auditioned
didnt (perhaps it has been changed) much to my surprise , much the
same way that I am surpised having been told that the ML#39 despite
having digital out and in cant use its own spdif out into its own
DAC??
Chuck Ross
In article <980412122...@earthlink.net>, opera...@worldjazz.com
(Brian L. McCarty) wrote:
Wipe the egg off your face before you report him, Bwian....
Anonymous
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Camelot Technology wrote:
> The Arthur Plus will allow anybody to upgrade the mediocre DAC in their
^^^^^^^^
> DVD machines in order to play their CDs and DADs with unmatched clarity
> and resolution.
Post results from controlled listening supporting this claim and accept to be quizzed on
details or your post will be considered as advertizing in a noncommercial discussion forum
and will be referred as such to your ISP.
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Post a single reason why he should answer a stupid putzintuchus like
yourself, McInturd. Who elected you net cop? Yourself! The only one
who agrees with you on anything is Gene and Bwian and Pavlov da Pooch.
That says it all.
You are a whimpy, limpy, yellow-bellied, cowardly little turd, too
afwaid to post under your own name.
Cheers
Zip
George M. Middius
Sebastien McMousey has just returned from church. Wouldn't
it be great if they'd leave the worship and obeisance at the
altar instead of spewing it all over Usenet?
>>The Arthur Plus will allow anybody to upgrade the
>>mediocre DAC in their DVD machines
>Post results from controlled listening supporting this claim
>and accept to be quizzed on details or your post will be
>considered as advertizing in a noncommercial discussion
>forum and will be referred as such to your ISP.
What's it like in there, Sebastien? I've heard that it's
difficult to breathe in a sealed box, but perhaps you've
adopted the cyborgic lifestyle and now swallow oxygen
pellets.
George M. Middius
Remove "jiffy" to reply
Arny Krüger
Brian L. McCarty wrote in message <980412122...@earthlink.net>...
>In article <3530FD...@comcat.com>, Camelot Technology
<cam...@comcat.com>
>writes:
>> If the upcoming (and I use that term loosely) DVD Audio discs will play
>> in a DVD machine, then our upcoming outboard 24/96 DAC will play
>> them. Simple as that.
>
>It isn't as simple as that. There are several different proposals on the
>table for audio-only DVD's, and many of the proposals use proprietary
>formatting that will render your (and all) current outboard DAC's unusable.
>
>To tell people otherwise is bordering on fraud.
>
I think that is about the current status of things.
I was all eyes when Camelot started talking about CS4390's as if they were
96 kHz DAC's, but then they quickly admitted that they were downconverting
to 48 kHz. There really is not that much difference between 48 kHz and 44
khz, and 48 kHz pretty much draws a line around the performance that they
can deliver. Forget about useful audio response above 24 kHz.
The joke around here is that by the time there is a consumer 24/96 standard,
it will be perceptually coded someplace down the line... ;-)
Stewart Pinkerton
nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
>
>On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Camelot Technology wrote:
>
>> The Arthur Plus will allow anybody to upgrade the mediocre DAC in their
> ^^^^^^^^
>> DVD machines in order to play their CDs and DADs with unmatched clarity
>> and resolution.
>
>
> Post results from controlled listening supporting this claim and accept to be quizzed on
> details or your post will be considered as advertizing in a noncommercial discussion forum
> and will be referred as such to your ISP.
It might also be worth copying to Bob Stuart at Meridian, and to the
boys at Faroudja..............
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Pinky:
Why contact Faroudja? Howard Schilling was talking audio, not video.
Also, Meridian and Camelot will read a 24bit/96khz disc, but the chip
they use down converts to 48k.
Cheers
Zip
Andy KONG
Because they have a DVD player that need DAC upgrade :-)
Andy KONG (Remove "." in "netvigator.com" to response with email)
Jeff Adams
>>So... He is suggesting there are 1 box CD players with digital out and
>>digital in... Anyone know of such a one-box CD player?
>
>Krell KPS-20i, Denon S-1, just for starters.
> and Tom Melanson comments on the Levinson #39...
So, maybe a better question is, given that the #39 is 6K and doesn't
currently allow it's own digital out to be fed back to it's digital
in, (and how much is the Krell and Denon? And do you have some others
in mind? It's sounding like a one-box solution that allows this
"processor loop" flexibility is pretty pricey...), might I just as
well go back to using a separate transport and DAC? I just can't stand
the notion of spending a ton of money on a transport that, if the DAC
were designed properly in the first place, shouldn't make any
difference... So, then, what separate DAC (and transport for that
matter) do you like, Stewart?
======CORRECT EMAIL: remove the xyz======================================
| Jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com) | GTE Electronic Systems Division |
| 415-966-2122 | Mountain View, CA U.S.A. |
| All opinions are mine and not my employer or internet access provider. |
==========================================================================
Camelot Technology
Brian L. McCarty wrote:
>
> In article <3530FD...@comcat.com>, Camelot Technology <cam...@comcat.com>
> writes:
> > If the upcoming (and I use that term loosely) DVD Audio discs will play
> > in a DVD machine, then our upcoming outboard 24/96 DAC will play
> > them. Simple as that.
>
> It isn't as simple as that. There are several different proposals on the
> table for audio-only DVD's, and many of the proposals use proprietary
> formatting that will render your (and all) current outboard DAC's unusable.
>
> To tell people otherwise is bordering on fraud.
>
Dear Brian:
I suggest you re-evaluate your position...because it is not in agreement
with the facts.
All of the formats being seriously considered for DAD are PCM-based,
sampled at 88 or 96 kHz, with 20 to 24-bit words. These proposed
formats are 100% compatible with our upcoming $499 24/96 outboard DAC,
the Arthur Plus.
The only seriously considered format that would be incompatible with the
Arthur Plus is DSD (I would like you to enlighten me as to just what
these "several different proposals" are that are non-PCM)...and adoption
of a DSD-based DAD would render all current DVD machines sold in the
world obsolete with those discs, as they are PCM-based. DSD-compatible
DVD machines would need an entirely new decoding method, as would
DTS-compatible machines, which is why DTS is fighting such an uphill
battle.
So, my initial statement, namely that "if the upcoming (and I use that
term loosely) DVD Audio discs will play in a DVD machine, then our
upcoming outboard 24/96 DAC will play them. Simple as that", is true.
It is true because there is NO SUCH THING as a consumer DSD DVD machine
available today, and that the chances of the new DAD disc being non-PCM
are slim and none.
I also greatly resent your implication that we are trying to defraud any
of our customers. Our company is committed to providing the best
possible performance and value in all of our products, and your
statement is simply way out of line.
Further, may I also suggest that you think more before you speak
regarding matters digital.
Sincerely,
Howard Schilling
Steve Jones
Camelot Technology wrote:
>
> All of the formats being seriously considered for DAD are PCM-based,
> sampled at 88 or 96 kHz, with 20 to 24-bit words. These proposed
> formats are 100% compatible with our upcoming $499 24/96 outboard DAC,
> the Arthur Plus.
These proposed formats are not currently available via the S/PDIF
interface (currently the *only* way to extract the bitstream from DVD
players). S/PDIF is only designated for 32K, 44.1K, and 48K 16 bits.
AES/EBU extends the bit word to 24 bits (at the same sampling
frequencies).
Unless the transport has I2S output, *and* a DVD style laser pickup
mechanism (able to read DVDs and NOT available now), any outboard
96KHz/24b bit DAC will perform no better that the output port squeezed
44.1KHz/16 bit sample fed into it.
Compatable? Hardly.
An outboard DAC fed by a 16 bit trunicated version of the 96KHz/24bit
data from a DVD, may even sound worse than a comparable noise shaped
standard 44.1KHz/16 bit CD.
-Steve Jones
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Steve:
If the new format is to work as you indicate, then it must use an I2S
bus output. Therefore, you are wrong about Camelot being incompatable.
All Camelot products are designed with I2S bus interfaces.
Zip
--
Sunshine Stereo, Inc
Tel: 305-757-9358 Fax: 305-757-1367
9535 Biscayne Blvd.
Miami Shores, FL 33138
PASS Labs Carver Lightstar CODA Jadis Audible Illusions
Camelot Technology Audio Logic CEC Parasound Kinergetics
Chiro Benz Micro Gallo Acoustics Dunlavy Audio NEAR NHT
Cabasse Niles Zenith INTEQ Crystal Vision Straightwire
Rega Cleanlines by Vans Evers ENTECH by Monster Cable ESP
Arcane Audio Labs and a whole lot more :-)
Steve & Gigi want you to ENJOY THE MUSIC!
DO NOT USE COMPUSERVE
THEY RIPPED US OFF FOR TWO YEARS SERVICE
They told us to take a hike
NEVER USE COMPUSERVE
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Camelot Technology wrote:
>> The Arthur Plus will allow anybody to upgrade
^^^^^^^^
>> to play their CDs and DADs with unmatched clarity
>> and resolution.
Sebastien Dipshit McInturd, masquerading as caped crusader,
anonyschmuck, drools:
> Post results from controlled listening supporting this
> claim and accept to be quizzed on details or your post
> will be considered as advertizing in a noncommercial
> discussion forum and will be referred as such to your ISP.
McInshit:
You can't do diddly doody about Camelot's posts. Schilling farts more
useful information in a month than you will post in a lifetime. You are
one sick unhappy puppy (must be related to Pavlov), and your desire is
that nobody post anything different than what you think ought to be here
on rao. I got news for you buddy, except for some twisted dudes like
Pavlov & Steinborg and Noussaine who wish to control the thoughts of
everybody, nobody takes you seriously. While you may think you are the
king of rao, you are in reality, only the jester of the thought control
police, and a complete laughing stock. You are a creep, nothing more.
Zip
Roy Briggs
Anonymous (crettin coward) wrote
> Post results from controlled listening supporting this claim and accept
to be quizzed on
> details or your post will be considered as advertizing in a noncommercial
discussion forum
> and will be referred as such to your ISP.
Refer *this*, you slimy fucker:
Post your name or be damned to the insignificance that swallows mouthpieces
that shoot puke from the safety of mommy's petticoat pocket.
You are in no position to quizz anybody, Anonymous Revoltaris. What the hell
makes you think you are?
FOR SALE : CD CONTAINING 2000 PICS OF 'ANONYMOUS' IN HOT BESTIAL ACTION. HOT
SUCKING AND FUCKING ACTION. EMAIL ORDERS. 15C.
Jeff Adams
Mr. Briggs: Do you always find it necessary to use foul language when
you disagree with someone? You'll notice this is a very polite
request to refrain from such language, but I'll bet the response is
not in kind. We'll see.
George M. Middius
Jeff Adams misses the point royally.
>Mr. Briggs: Do you always find it necessary to use foul language when
>you disagree with someone?
You'll notice that any foul language Dr. Briggs has used is
directed solely at cyborgs and their minions. Doesn't that
tell you something, Jeff?
Roy Briggs
Jeff Adams wrote
>Mr. Briggs: Do you always find it necessary to use foul language when
>you disagree with someone?
In reply to your question, no I don't. Just sometimes.
>You'll notice this is a very polite
>request to refrain from such language,
I've noticed, and you'll notice that this is a polite request to delete my
posts if you break down in tears each time you see someone taking the piss
(oops) out of someone else.
>but I'll bet the response is
>not in kind. We'll see.
Will we?
Well thankyou Father Clean for that little chat. I promise from now on to be
nice to everyone and all of the time (even when they deserve worse than I
gave them).
Anonymous
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Roy Briggs wrote:
> Refer *this*, you slimy fucker:
>
> Post your name or be damned to the insignificance that swallows mouthpieces
> that shoot puke from the safety of mommy's petticoat pocket.
>
> You are in no position to quizz anybody, Anonymous Revoltaris. What the hell
> makes you think you are?
>
> FOR SALE : CD CONTAINING 2000 PICS OF 'ANONYMOUS' IN HOT BESTIAL ACTION. HOT
> SUCKING AND FUCKING ACTION. EMAIL ORDERS. 15C.
I find you amusing. You sound like this California lawyer when he posts drunk...
BTW, is news.demon.co.uk this anonymizing remailer that was shut down due to abuse on
numerous occasions (e.g., forged e-mail)?
Just asking.
Stewart Pinkerton
jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com (Jeff Adams) writes:
>On Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:53:57 GMT, pat...@popmail.dircon.co.uk
>(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:
>
>>>So... He is suggesting there are 1 box CD players with digital out and
>>>digital in... Anyone know of such a one-box CD player?
>>
>>Krell KPS-20i, Denon S-1, just for starters.
>
>> and Tom Melanson comments on the Levinson #39...
>
>So, maybe a better question is, given that the #39 is 6K and doesn't
>currently allow it's own digital out to be fed back to it's digital
>in, (and how much is the Krell and Denon? And do you have some others
>in mind? It's sounding like a one-box solution that allows this
>"processor loop" flexibility is pretty pricey...), might I just as
>well go back to using a separate transport and DAC? I just can't stand
>the notion of spending a ton of money on a transport that, if the DAC
>were designed properly in the first place, shouldn't make any
>difference... So, then, what separate DAC (and transport for that
>matter) do you like, Stewart?
I think most folks know that I prefer one-box players to *any*
transport/DAC combo, for top-class CD performance without breaking the
bank (i.e. less than the cost of the Meridian 861 and any old
transport). Incidentally, I understand from another poster that the
CAL 15 can perform the 'processor loop' trick. OTOH, if you're going
to break the clock loop anyway, why *not* have a separate transport?
I'd recommend the Audiolab or Meridian units as well but not
excessively engineered, and a good jitter-attenuating DAC such as the
Audio Synthesis, Audiolab, or Meridian 566. If you have pots of cash,
then the Meridian 861 (the only true reclocking DAC available) is the
obvious solution to almost all the problems of digital audio. Or
there's the Prism DAC-1/24 or the dCS Elgar.........
OTGH, the transport I *like* is the TEAC P-30, and the one I drool
over is the Oracle (with matching LP spinner, of course!).
Stewart Pinkerton
Glan...@jiffypop.erols.com (George M. Middius) writes:
>Jeff Adams misses the point royally.
>
>>Mr. Briggs: Do you always find it necessary to use foul language when
>>you disagree with someone?
>
>You'll notice that any foul language Dr. Briggs has used is
>directed solely at cyborgs and their minions. Doesn't that
>tell you something, Jeff?
You'll notice that he has also adopted Borgian references. This tells
me that the Resistance is gathering all the foul-mouthed, dim-witted
and obnoxious friends of Shun Mook into one mind-melding meeting
place. Perhaps a single plasma blast would then suffice to advance the
cause of music reproduction.............
Andy KONG
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:57:38 GMT, pat...@popmail.dircon.co.uk
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:
>--
>
>Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
>
Stewart,
Since you are in UK, I supose you can keep a close eye on Linn. They
have a new single box CD player priced at around US$10,000. I think
the model number is CD-12 (or similar). The strange thing is, Linn
claimed that this CD player do not have a clock built-in. I think the
prototype has been shown in WCES 98.
Sander deWaal
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:57:49 GMT, andy...@net.vigator.com (Andy KONG)
wrote the following:
>>OTGH, the transport I *like* is the TEAC P-30, and the one I drool
>>over is the Oracle (with matching LP spinner, of course!).
>>Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
>Stewart,
>Since you are in UK, I supose you can keep a close eye on Linn....
OUCH!!!!
_
Sander deWaal
postm...@pegasus.demon.nl
www.pegasus.demon.nl
_______________________________________________
Steve Jones
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
> If the new format is to work as you indicate, then it must use an I2S
> bus output. Therefore, you are wrong about Camelot being incompatable.
> All Camelot products are designed with I2S bus interfaces.
There is the absence of 96/24 DVD audio transports with I2S outputs.
Without this interface (on a DVD type player) the compatibility claim
about the new DAC's ability to *use* the 96/24 audio format is, at best,
questionable.
I believe only Muse has shown a preproduction prototype audio DVD
transport with I2S Enhanced output.
BTW, Crystal Semiconductors DOES make transmitters and receivers that do
include the 96/24 format (CS8403A,CS8404A,CS8413, and CS8414).
Unfortuneately, the standard (S/PDIF) must be amended to include the new
formats. Until then, all bets on industry wide compatabilty are off.
-Steve Jones
Roy Briggs
Stewart Pinkertroon wrote
>You'll notice that he [me] has also adopted Borgian references. This tells
>me that the Resistance is gathering all the foul-mouthed, dim-witted
>and obnoxious friends of Shun Mook into one mind-melding meeting
>place. Perhaps a single plasma blast would then suffice to advance the
>cause of music reproduction.............
Buckwart Pinkerdeaf Droid gives a hysterical and explosive series of humours
revelations. The Resistance reel in uncontrollable gales of laughter. The
Droid has engaged its HyperHysterical(TM) module and it wants everyone to
know about it. We are in awe.
Bruce D. Platt
>
> >
> > Camelot Technology wrote:
> > >
> > > All of the formats being seriously considered for DAD are PCM-based,
> > > sampled at 88 or 96 kHz, with 20 to 24-bit words. These proposed
> > > formats are 100% compatible with our upcoming $499 24/96 outboard DAC,
> > > the Arthur Plus.
> >
> > These proposed formats are not currently available via the S/PDIF
> > interface (currently the *only* way to extract the bitstream from DVD
> > players). S/PDIF is only designated for 32K, 44.1K, and 48K 16 bits.
> > AES/EBU extends the bit word to 24 bits (at the same sampling
> > frequencies).
> >
> > Unless the transport has I2S output, *and* a DVD style laser pickup
> > mechanism (able to read DVDs and NOT available now), any outboard
> > 96KHz/24b bit DAC will perform no better that the output port squeezed
> > 44.1KHz/16 bit sample fed into it.
> >
> > Compatable? Hardly.
> >
> > An outboard DAC fed by a 16 bit trunicated version of the 96KHz/24bit
> > data from a DVD, may even sound worse than a comparable noise shaped
> > standard 44.1KHz/16 bit CD.
> >
> > -Steve Jones
>
> Steve:
> bus output. Therefore, you are wrong about Camelot being incompatable.
> All Camelot products are designed with I2S bus interfaces.
> --
> Sunshine Stereo, Inc
> Tel: 305-757-9358 Fax: 305-757-1367
> 9535 Biscayne Blvd.
> Miami Shores, FL 33138
>
market dont have I2S outputs, mine dosen't, do any of them?
Bruce Platt
George M. Middius
Stewart Pinkerton's powers of discernment ain't what
they used to be.
>... the Resistance is gathering all the foul-mouthed, dim-witted and
>obnoxious friends of Shun Mook into one mind-melding meeting place.
Foul-mouthed? I thought Duraybito was one of Yours.
Oops, forgot the "joke" indicator: ...................
Anyway, if you think Phoebe the Evil Telco Witch, Bob
Myers, the Krooborg, and Kerry Shetline, to name just a
few of your heroes & heroines, are the opposite of
"dim-witted," then I'm glad the Resistance is staffed
as it is. You're welcome to all the stellar wits you
can recruit.
>Perhaps a single plasma blast would then suffice to advance the
>cause of music reproduction.............
That's a Krooborg tactic if I ever saw one -- appending
an incomprehensible and irrelevant phrase to the end of
an opinion. Here's a tip from the perspective of an
admirer of "dim-witted" people: For a joke to be
effective, it has to be understandable.
Care to try again? ......................
Camelot Technology
Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Camelot Technology wrote:
> >
> > All of the formats being seriously considered for DAD are PCM-based,
> > sampled at 88 or 96 kHz, with 20 to 24-bit words. These proposed
> > formats are 100% compatible with our upcoming $499 24/96 outboard DAC,
> > the Arthur Plus.
>
> These proposed formats are not currently available via the S/PDIF
> interface (currently the *only* way to extract the bitstream from DVD
> players). S/PDIF is only designated for 32K, 44.1K, and 48K 16 bits.
> AES/EBU extends the bit word to 24 bits (at the same sampling
> frequencies).
>
> Unless the transport has I2S output, *and* a DVD style laser pickup
> mechanism (able to read DVDs and NOT available now), any outboard
> 96KHz/24b bit DAC will perform no better that the output port squeezed
> 44.1KHz/16 bit sample fed into it.
>
> Compatable? Hardly.
>
> An outboard DAC fed by a 16 bit trunicated version of the 96KHz/24bit
> data from a DVD, may even sound worse than a comparable noise shaped
> standard 44.1KHz/16 bit CD.
>
> -Steve Jones
Dear Steve:
Hate to burst your bubble...but your claim is false.
The S/PDIF standard fully supports 24/96 data. Look it up.
Regards,
Howard Schilling
Steve Jones
Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Check the optical output of the internally 96/24 capable Sony DVP-S7000
> at:
> http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/DVD/prodspec.html
It should have been entered:
http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/dvd/prodspec.html
Steve Jones
Camelot Technology wrote:
>
> Hate to burst your bubble...but your claim is false.
>
> The S/PDIF standard fully supports 24/96 data. Look it up.
Please post it here. As for my info, it was in a white paper on I2S
Enhanced.
As a "professional" standard there is a subsection (in AES/EBU) that
does allow 24 bit (for *that* intended purpose), but that is NOT the
ubiquitous "consumer" standard. And as a standard consumer interface,
you continue to misrepresent the existing DVD field, as 96/24.
Check the optical output of the internally 96/24 capable Sony DVP-S7000
at:
http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/DVD/prodspec.html
It's 16 bit PCM (or switchable to AC-3).
You'd think at least Sony would have gotten it right in their flagship
player (if indeed S/PDIF could support 96/24 -at this time).
BTW, I'm not even mentioning DVD players that offer a coaxial AC-3
(totally incompatable with your DAC) output only.
Caveat Emptor!
I agree that 96/24 seems to be the way the industry is growing, but I
don't see where your claims of compatability (assuming 96/24
through-put) with existing products (DVD output via S/PDIF) is valid.
It's not here yet.
-Steve Jones
Arny Krüger
Steve Jones wrote in message <3533D6...@vcd.hp.com>...
>
>
>You'd think at least Sony would have gotten it right in their flagship
>player (if indeed S/PDIF could support 96/24 -at this time).
>
SPDIF and AES/EBU support 96/24 with salable product today. See
http://www.soundchaser.com/pcsets/soundcards.html
and check out the prices of the Sek'd 2496 S convertor ($699)
(http://www.sekd.com/2496ADDA/2496ADDA.htm) and the Prodif 96 PCI card
($549)
(http://www.sekd.com/Prodif96/Prodif96.htm ). Notice the RCA plugs (SP/DIF)
on this puppy...
Gruvmyster
Roy Briggs wrote:
> FOR SALE : CD CONTAINING 2000 PICS OF 'ANONYMOUS' IN HOT BESTIAL ACTION. HOT
> SUCKING AND FUCKING ACTION. EMAIL ORDERS. 15C.
Er, not that I'm interested or anything, but what kinds of animals is he
doing?;-)
Doug
--
"Theory should be study, not doctrine."-- Carl von Clausewitz
Stewart Pinkerton
andy...@net.vigator.com (Andy KONG) writes:
>Since you are in UK, I supose you can keep a close eye on Linn.
Well, I suppose I can keep a 'close' eye on them from further than I'd
have to be, to touch them with a ten-foot pole............
> They
>have a new single box CD player priced at around US$10,000. I think
>the model number is CD-12 (or similar). The strange thing is, Linn
>claimed that this CD player do not have a clock built-in. I think the
>prototype has been shown in WCES 98.
I have heard this story. It's obviously untrue, since a stable clock
is *vital* to correct CD reproduction. Most likely, it's just some of
Ivor's hype and marketing-speak. We shall see.
--
Stewart Pinkerton
au...@pegasus.demon.nl (Sander deWaal) writes:
>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:57:49 GMT, andy...@net.vigator.com (Andy KONG)
>wrote the following:
>>Since you are in UK, I supose you can keep a close eye on Linn....
>
>OUCH!!!!
I guess Andy doesn't know about me and Linn! :-)
Stewart Pinkerton
nob...@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) writes:
>
>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Roy Briggs wrote:
>
>> Refer *this*, you slimy fucker:
>>
>> Post your name or be damned to the insignificance that swallows mouthpieces
>> that shoot puke from the safety of mommy's petticoat pocket.
>>
>> You are in no position to quizz anybody, Anonymous Revoltaris. What the hell
>> makes you think you are?
>>
>> FOR SALE : CD CONTAINING 2000 PICS OF 'ANONYMOUS' IN HOT BESTIAL ACTION. HOT
>> SUCKING AND FUCKING ACTION. EMAIL ORDERS. 15C.
>
>
> I find you amusing. You sound like this California lawyer when he posts drunk...
>
> BTW, is news.demon.co.uk this anonymizing remailer that was shut down due to abuse on
> numerous occasions (e.g., forged e-mail)?
FYI, Demon is actually the biggest UK ISP, outside of Compuserve and
AOL (may be bigger than AOL). I use the much smaller Dircon, because
Demon is so popular that it is often dog slow.
Stewart Pinkerton
"Bruce D. Platt" <bpl...@hittman.com> writes:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>--------------E7C77F8E8A78531311349F8E
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
>>
>> Steve Jones wrote:
>> >
>> > Camelot Technology wrote:
>> > >
>> > > All of the formats being seriously considered for DAD are PCM-based,
>> > > sampled at 88 or 96 kHz, with 20 to 24-bit words. These proposed
>> > > formats are 100% compatible with our upcoming $499 24/96 outboard DAC,
>> > > the Arthur Plus.
>> >
>> > These proposed formats are not currently available via the S/PDIF
>> > interface (currently the *only* way to extract the bitstream from DVD
>> > players). S/PDIF is only designated for 32K, 44.1K, and 48K 16 bits.
>> > AES/EBU extends the bit word to 24 bits (at the same sampling
>> > frequencies).
>> >
>> > Unless the transport has I2S output, *and* a DVD style laser pickup
>> > mechanism (able to read DVDs and NOT available now), any outboard
>> > 96KHz/24b bit DAC will perform no better that the output port squeezed
>> > 44.1KHz/16 bit sample fed into it.
>> >
>> > Compatable? Hardly.
>> >
>> > An outboard DAC fed by a 16 bit trunicated version of the 96KHz/24bit
>> > data from a DVD, may even sound worse than a comparable noise shaped
>> > standard 44.1KHz/16 bit CD.
>> >
>> > -Steve Jones
>>
>> Steve:
>> If the new format is to work as you indicate, then it must use an I2S
>> bus output. Therefore, you are wrong about Camelot being incompatable.
>> All Camelot products are designed with I2S bus interfaces.
>> Zip
>I think Steve Jones was refering to the fact that the DVD players on the
>market dont have I2S outputs, mine dosen't, do any of them?
Steve Jones was referring to his opinion that the S/PDIF standard is
incapable of supporting 24 bits at 96kHz. He's wrong.
I^2S is a completely separate issue, and since S/PDIF *can* support
24/96, I^2S is only desirable, not essential. OTOH, SDIF-2 is even
better, since it is a properly defined external interface standard,
while the I^2S bus is intended for use between chips in a one-box
player, and has no termination standards for cable connection. It will
work just fine between boxes made by the same manufacturer, such as
Camelot, but 'mix and match' and you're on your own!
Stewart Pinkerton
"Roy Briggs" <Roy.B...@mommys.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Stewart Pinkertroon wrote
>
>>You'll notice that he [me] has also adopted Borgian references. This tells
>>me that the Resistance is gathering all the foul-mouthed, dim-witted
>>and obnoxious friends of Shun Mook into one mind-melding meeting
>>place. Perhaps a single plasma blast would then suffice to advance the
>>cause of music reproduction.............
>
>Buckwart Pinkerdeaf Droid gives a hysterical and explosive series of humours
>revelations. The Resistance reel in uncontrollable gales of laughter. The
>Droid has engaged its HyperHysterical(TM) module and it wants everyone to
>know about it. We are in awe.
Stop smoking that stuff, Roy! Than you might have an original thought,
rather than simply aping the style of Zip and Middius...........
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
> Than you might have an original thought,
> rather than simply aping the style of Zip and Middius...........
He does it again. Pinky, your argument gets weaker by the second.
Zip
Jeff Adams
>I think most folks know that I prefer one-box players to *any*
>transport/DAC combo, for top-class CD performance without breaking the
>bank (i.e. less than the cost of the Meridian 861 and any old
>transport). Incidentally, I understand from another poster that the
>CAL 15 can perform the 'processor loop' trick. OTOH, if you're going
>to break the clock loop anyway, why *not* have a separate transport?
Well, exactly, which is why I was asking. But the problem I'm having
is, if one can get near-best performance from the 508.24 (at what,
$3,500 U.S.) or the XA-7ES (around $2,000 U.S. if still available),
then what will it take to get comparable performance in separates?
I'd surely rather spend in the neighborhood of one of the previously
mentioned 1-box players than 2x or 3x that for the latest designer
DAC. I'd really like the convenience of a 5-disc player as a
transport, and I can't help but think that if I could find a DAC that
was well designed, that a fairly inexpensive 5-disc player should
sound as good as a multi-thousand dollar transport (I have a REAL hard
time wanting to spend more than $500 on a transport - even the Theta
Pearl at $1200 seems excessive by quite a bit).
>I'd recommend the Audiolab or Meridian units as well but not
>excessively engineered, and a good jitter-attenuating DAC such as the
>Audio Synthesis, Audiolab, or Meridian 566.
Is there a Meridian DAC which has caught up with the DAC in the
508.24? Is the 566 that unit, or, is it yet-to-be-released? I'm not
familiar with the Audio Synthesis...
>If you have pots of cash,
>then the Meridian 861 (the only true reclocking DAC available) is the
>obvious solution to almost all the problems of digital audio.
Unfortunately not. And in fact the local dealer that has carried
Meridian up to this point has recently quit carrying them. Don't know
why...
>Or
>there's the Prism DAC-1/24 or the dCS Elgar.........
Which of course are in the stratosphere $$-wise from my standpoint
:-(. (isn't the Prism around $5k? And the dCS quite a lot more than
that?)
Thanks,
Jeff
Mark K. Long
Well, all this round and round has been interesting, but doesn't
really address the underlying issue of concern to most of us.
In (http://www.sstage.com/live/2496/2496main.shtml) Kevin Halverson of
Muse Electronics reports that this year Chesky and Classic Records
will be releaseing 24/96 audio on DVD ( call it DAD, AAD, whatever).
(1) So what machines available now, or scheduled for release this year,
will play these disks?
(2) How will these machines treat regular CDs? (dither up 16->24, pad
w/ 0s, etc.) Are they likely to have better mechanisms, lower jitter,
etc, due to the higher requirements of DVD?
(3) Is the machine from (1) really doing 24/96 or is it doing
something else
- e.g. Sony S7000 reported to have 20bit Current Pulse
DAC, http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/dvd/audfeat.html but what
does it do with a 24 bit DAD?,
- Sony DVP-S500D claims to have 24/96 dacs.
(http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/corpcomm/news/consumer/24.html)
Is that better or worse than the S7000?
- Panasonics DVD-A310 reports 24/96, etc....
- Pioneer DV-505 reports 20 bits, what does it do with 24bit source..
(4) I would imagine this will spawn a new debate about how the various
machines get from 16-> 20or24 bits for regular CD playback.
Thanks for the facts.
Mark
Johnny Y Boey
Jeff Adams wrote:
> rate transport?
>
> Well, exactly, which is why I was asking. But the problem I'm having
> is, if one can get near-best performance from the 508.24 (at what,
> $3,500 U.S.) or the XA-7ES (around $2,000 U.S. if still available),
> then what will it take to get comparable performance in separates?
At the same price!! The Parasound combo is terrific, and I'd probably take
them over the Meridian or the Sony because of upgradeability.
JB
Andy KONG
>au...@pegasus.demon.nl (Sander deWaal) writes:
>
>>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:57:49 GMT, andy...@net.vigator.com (Andy KONG)
>>wrote the following:
>
>>>Since you are in UK, I supose you can keep a close eye on Linn....
>>
>>OUCH!!!!
>
>I guess Andy doesn't know about me and Linn! :-)
>
>
>--
>
>Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
>
Sorry, what have I missed between you and Linn, ....
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Andy KONG wrote:
>
> On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:29:01 GMT, pat...@popmail.dircon.co.uk
> (Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:
>
> >au...@pegasus.demon.nl (Sander deWaal) writes:
> >
> >>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:57:49 GMT, andy...@net.vigator.com (Andy KONG)
> >>wrote the following:
> >
> >>>Since you are in UK, I supose you can keep a close eye on Linn....
> >>
> >>OUCH!!!!
> >
> >I guess Andy doesn't know about me and Linn! :-)
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
> >
>
> Sorry, what have I missed between you and Linn, ....
Andy:
Linn was once engaged to Stewart, but they broke up when Stewart caught
Linn messing around with what's her Naim?
Cheers
Zip
--
Sunshine Stereo, Inc
Tel: 305-757-9358 Fax: 305-757-1367
9535 Biscayne Blvd.
Miami Shores, FL 33138
PASS Labs Carver Lightstar CODA Jadis Audible Illusions
Camelot Technology Audio Logic CEC Parasound Kinergetics
Chiro Benz Micro Gallo Acoustics Dunlavy Audio NEAR NHT
Cabasse Niles Zenith INTEQ Crystal Vision Straightwire
Rega Cleanlines by Vans Evers ENTECH by Monster Cable ESP
Arcane Audio Labs and a whole lot more :-)
Steve & Gigi want you to ENJOY THE MUSIC!
DO NOT USE COMPUSERVE
THEY RIPPED US OFF FOR TWO YEARS SERVICE
They told us to take a hike
NEVER USE COMPUSERVE
Sergey Korshunov
Jeff Adams wrote:
> Is there a Meridian DAC which has caught up with the DAC in the
> 508.24? Is the 566 that unit, or, is it yet-to-be-released? I'm not
> familiar with the Audio Synthesis...
In the Meridian price list the new 566.24 is present,
which cannot be anything else but 508.24 minus transport.
Sergey
Steve Jones
Arny Krüger wrote:
>
> Steve Jones wrote in message <3533D6...@vcd.hp.com>...
> >
> >
> >You'd think at least Sony would have gotten it right in their flagship
> >player (if indeed S/PDIF could support 96/24 -at this time).
> >
>
> SPDIF and AES/EBU support 96/24 with salable product today. See
The reference to the professional interface, AES/EBU, wasn't in my
original. Also, it's not the more common S/PDIF as specified EIAJ
CP-340, or IEC 958 type II, as found on consumer products.
> http://www.soundchaser.com/pcsets/soundcards.html
AES/EBU (not S/PDIF) at 24 bit. Not ready for 96K.
> and check out the prices of the Sek'd 2496 S convertor ($699)
> (http://www.sekd.com/2496ADDA/2496ADDA.htm) and the Prodif 96 PCI card
> ($549)
AES/EBU (not S/PDIF) at 24/96.
> (http://www.sekd.com/Prodif96/Prodif96.htm ). Notice the RCA plugs (SP/DIF)
> on this puppy...
Closer. But only 20 bit at 96KHz.
-Steve Jones
Edward Derson Hou
Of course, when are we going to get The Beatles mastered 24/96?
Or for that matter, simply remastered?
-Eddie
Steve Jones
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
> Steve Jones was referring to his opinion that the S/PDIF standard is
> incapable of supporting 24 bits at 96kHz. He's wrong.
I was wrong.
EIAJ CP-340 and IEC 958 type II are indeed open architecture (as to Fs).
They also specify a 20 bit word length with the option of 4 additional
bits for either *auxilary audio OR other data*, so 24 bit is not
*impossible*. My point was, is it realised today, all DVD players are
not required to output a "standard" 24/96 (just specified as LPCM
digital). Sony doesn't. My Panasonic doesn't. There is no compatable
Standard at this time.
See:
http://192.107.38.102/java/sun_au/A/INTRO.HTM
> I^2S is a completely separate issue, and since S/PDIF *can* support
> 24/96,
Provided that it is transparent to previous implementations.....
> I^2S is only desirable, not essential. OTOH, SDIF-2 is even
> better, since it is a properly defined external interface standard,
> while the I^2S bus is intended for use between chips in a one-box
> player, and has no termination standards for cable connection. It will
> work just fine between boxes made by the same manufacturer, such as
> Camelot, but 'mix and match' and you're on your own!
Caveat Emptor, at least until the format wars are over.
Anyone remember Quadraphonics?
-Steve Jones
Steve Jones
Edward Derson Hou wrote:
>
> Of course, when are we going to get The Beatles mastered 24/96?
> Or for that matter, simply remastered?
"A Hard Days Night" DVD still sounds shrill. :-( :-( :-(
BTW, have you listened to the DCC "Elvis 24 Karat Hits" remastered by
Steve Hoffman (that Cory Greenberg wrote about in Audio). The early
lo-fi sessions are spectacular! Damn, I just might like Elvis, after
hearing this CD!
-Steve Jones
Stewart Pinkerton
andy...@net.vigator.com (Andy KONG) writes:
>On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:29:01 GMT, pat...@popmail.dircon.co.uk
>(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:
>
>>au...@pegasus.demon.nl (Sander deWaal) writes:
>>
>>>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 09:57:49 GMT, andy...@net.vigator.com (Andy KONG)
>>>wrote the following:
>>
>>>>Since you are in UK, I supose you can keep a close eye on Linn....
>>>
>>>OUCH!!!!
>>
>>I guess Andy doesn't know about me and Linn! :-)
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
>>
>
>Sorry, what have I missed between you and Linn, ....
It's a long story, but a friend of mine invented the single-point
bearing and had it made in Jack Tiefenbruns aircraft parts workshop.
Jack and Ivor then patented the bearing design, leading to a court
battle which broke (and probably killed) Hamish Robertson, the founder
of Ariston Audio.
Tha original Ariston RD-11 turntable was in most respects a better
deign the Linn, which is poorly designed apart from that bearing
commmon to both tables, but Ivor was a much better salesman.
Stewart Pinkerton
jeff....@gscxyz.gte.com (Jeff Adams) writes:
>On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 08:57:38 GMT, pat...@popmail.dircon.co.uk
>(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:
>
> I'd really like the convenience of a 5-disc player as a
>transport, and I can't help but think that if I could find a DAC that
>was well designed, that a fairly inexpensive 5-disc player should
>sound as good as a multi-thousand dollar transport (I have a REAL hard
>time wanting to spend more than $500 on a transport - even the Theta
>Pearl at $1200 seems excessive by quite a bit).
Agreed, but you do then need good jitter attenuation in the DAC.
>>I'd recommend the Audiolab or Meridian units as well but not
>>excessively engineered, and a good jitter-attenuating DAC such as the
>>Audio Synthesis, Audiolab, or Meridian 566.
>
>Is there a Meridian DAC which has caught up with the DAC in the
>508.24? Is the 566 that unit, or, is it yet-to-be-released? I'm not
>familiar with the Audio Synthesis...
The latest 566.24 is indeed such a unit. Meridian's design efforts are
now concentrated on the 800 series. The Audio Synthesis DAX Decade is
not well known outside its native UK, but is possibly the best DAC
available for conventional digital audio signals, outside of the fully
programmable units like the Meridian 861. It has superb jitter
attenuation, a wide variety of digital inputs, and is equipped with an
excellent volume control, making it serve excellently as a digital
preamplifier. It has HDCD and also programmable dither, for extracting
the maximum possible resolution from 20 or 24 bit masters. The digital
circuitry runs internally at 24-bit precision, and the tested results
for low-level linearity and resolution are absolutely state of the
art. It does cost the equivalent of $5,000, although in this case you
*can* see where the money went! In fact, I am hard put to see the
advantage of the dCS Elgar at more than twice the price, except that
the Elgar will accept 96kHz data when it eventually arrives.
>>If you have pots of cash,
>>then the Meridian 861 (the only true reclocking DAC available) is the
>>obvious solution to almost all the problems of digital audio.
>
>Unfortunately not. And in fact the local dealer that has carried
>Meridian up to this point has recently quit carrying them. Don't know
>why...
>
>>Or
>>there's the Prism DAC-1/24 or the dCS Elgar.........
>
>Which of course are in the stratosphere $$-wise from my standpoint
>:-(. (isn't the Prism around $5k? And the dCS quite a lot more than
>that?)
Yes, the Prism Sound and Audio Synthesis are about $5k, and the Elgar
$12k in the US.
The Audiolab 8000DAC and the Meridian 566 are the only lower-priced
DACs I know of which have serious jitter attenuation and truly
excellent linearity.
Andre T. Yew
pat...@popmail.dircon.co.uk (Stewart Pinkerton) writes:
>The Audiolab 8000DAC and the Meridian 566 are the only lower-priced
>DACs I know of which have serious jitter attenuation and truly
>excellent linearity.
The US also has its obscure, good-performing DACs. The Dodson Audio
DAC is such an example. Around $2500, I believe. The Meitner BiDAT
is also another good, albeit Canadian (not that there's anything wrong
with that), DAC available for under $2K. Both are quite well-designed,
and the BiDAT often shows up used under $1K.
--Andre
--
PGP public key available
Bob Myers
George M. Middius (Glan...@jiffypop.erols.com) wrote:
> Anyway, if you think Phoebe the Evil Telco Witch, Bob
> Myers, the Krooborg, and Kerry Shetline, to name just a
> few of your heroes & heroines, are the opposite of
> "dim-witted," then I'm glad the Resistance is staffed
> as it is. You're welcome to all the stellar wits you
> can recruit.
Golly, do I feel HONORED now! George Middius, self-proclaimed Judge of
All That Be Truth, has declared me to be "dim-witted"! Wow!
I'd like to thank the Academy, all of my co-stars, and whoever is writing
this stuff for George...
Bob Myers | "Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but
my...@fc.hp.com | most of the time he will pick himself up and continue."
O- | - Winston Churchill
Arny Krüger
Bob Myers wrote in message <6h9h3d$9...@fcnews.fc.hp.com>...
>George M. Middius (Glan...@jiffypop.erols.com) wrote:
>> Anyway, if you think Phoebe the Evil Telco Witch, Bob
>> Myers, the Krooborg, and Kerry Shetline, to name just a
>> few of your heroes & heroines, are the opposite of
>> "dim-witted," then I'm glad the Resistance is staffed
>> as it is. You're welcome to all the stellar wits you
>> can recruit.
>
>Golly, do I feel HONORED now! George Middius, self-proclaimed Judge of
>All That Be Truth, has declared me to be "dim-witted"! Wow!
>
>I'd like to thank the Academy, all of my co-stars, and whoever is writing
>this stuff for George...
>
Indeed. Being one of George's heroes is something like flunking an IQ test.
I think that Anthony Cordesmann (of Audio Magazine) is one of George's
Heroes. So is the Stereophile staff and the HFN&RR reviewers who keep
rattling on about "pace and rhythm" in power amps...
Being one of George's enemies puts one in a pretty elite class.
I got to petition George for a membership for Nousaine.... ;-)
George M. Middius
Bob Myers is losing his reading comprehension skills. Too
much time spent examining spec sheets and schematics, Bob?
>> Anyway, if you think Phoebe the Evil Telco Witch, Bob
>> Myers, the Krooborg, and Kerry Shetline, to name just a
>> few of your heroes & heroines, are the opposite of
>> "dim-witted," then I'm glad the Resistance is staffed
>> as it is.
>Golly, do I feel HONORED now! George Middius, self-proclaimed Judge of
>All That Be Truth, has declared me to be "dim-witted"! Wow!
I suspect you would feel more honored if you had confidence
in your ability to detect sarcasm as easily as you use it.
Try reading my statement again, Bob.
George M. Middius
Remove "jiffy" to reply
George M. Middius
The Krooborg pounds itself into insensibility for all
of our sakes, not just its own. Easter is the time for
martyrdom on R.A.O.
>Being one of George's heroes is something like flunking an IQ test.
Is it possible you've adopted the wrong analogy here,
metronic one?
First off, I don't have any heroes. Unlike you, who
worship the schizoid Saul/Paul of Tarsus, the benighted
theocracy in the Vatican, and Nousaine the ABX God. I
am a normal human, which means I like to make my own
choices. Sorry to have rubbed your metronic nose in
that, but that's the way it is.
>I think that Anthony Cordesmann (of Audio Magazine) is one of
>George's Heroes. So is the Stereophile staff and the HFN&RR
>reviewers who keep rattling on about "pace and rhythm" in power amps...
You really hate it when people talk about their
feelings, don't you, cyborg?
>Being one of George's enemies puts one in a pretty elite class.
Then why do you try to dilute the eliteness by adding
more assimilations to the class?
>I got to petition George for a membership for Nousaine.... ;-)
Petition? That's a human invention, cyborg. People sign
a petition because they *want* to. If I see a petition
with a bunch of forged signatures (or forced
signatures), it will mean nothing. But then you have
time to burn, don't you?
Roy Briggs
Arny Krüger wrote
>Indeed. Being one of George's heroes is something like flunking an IQ test.
>I think that Anthony Cordesmann (of Audio Magazine) is one of George's
>Heroes. So is the Stereophile staff and the HFN&RR reviewers who keep
>rattling on about "pace and rhythm" in power amps...
Who are your heroes then, Robot? Intel Pentium II with MMX technology? Uncle
Z80. Auntie CRT? Grandpa 1 and Grannie 0?
>Being one of George's enemies puts one in a pretty elite class.
Being one of your friends would put you in an entirely different (and rather
scary) universe.
>I got to petition George for a membership for Nousaine.... ;-)
I got to petition Father Christmas to bring you some new ears for Christmas.