Glenn Zelniker lets it all hang out! ;-)
Arny Krüger
do to a seemingly nice guy:
http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=558611308
" FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=555845659
"WAKE THE FUCK UP!!! "
http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=558734504
"Keep it up, shit-for-brains. "
"Oh, and ... Fuck you, troll."
http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=559035158
"Don't EVER try to tell me what I understand and what I don't
understand and don't EVER try to
misrepresent my beliefs about audio, you sick, twisted fuck."
In his own words:
http://x29.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=559056492
"Bravo, Mr. B. You've peered into the mind of a lunatic and lived
to tell about it. I, myself, feel I've lost a bit of my own sanity
in the process. "
Seems like it was more than a little sanity that got lost! ;-)
trotsky
Krooger, he was trying to reason with you, and your intellectual Kroogerisms.
At this point you only have four robots left in your camp: Mickey, Cheezika,
Steindrone, and Tommi Notsiane. Howie doesn't count because he is mostly insane
too. Face it, Kroogles, the entire group is sick of your crap. Don't you have
*anything* to say for yourself? Any self-awareness *whatsoever*? I guess not.
Glenn Zelniker
> What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance" can
> do to a seemingly nice guy:
>
> " FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
> deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
>
> "WAKE THE FUCK UP!!! "
>
> "Keep it up, shit-for-brains. "
>
> "Oh, and ... Fuck you, troll."
>
> "Don't EVER try to tell me what I understand and what I don't
> understand and don't EVER try to
> misrepresent my beliefs about audio, you sick, twisted fuck."
I also called you Fucknutz.
GZ
Glenn Zelniker
> "Arny Krüger" wrote (of Glenn Zelniker):
> >
> > What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance" can
> > do to a seemingly nice guy:
[snip lotsa examples of GZ directing the word "fuck" at Arny]
> Krooger, he was trying to reason with you, and your intellectual Kroogerisms.
> At this point you only have four robots left in your camp: Mickey, Cheezika,
> Steindrone, and Tommi Notsiane. Howie doesn't count because he is mostly insane
> too. Face it, Kroogles, the entire group is sick of your crap. Don't you have
> *anything* to say for yourself? Any self-awareness *whatsoever*? I guess not.
I've yet to hear *anyone* chime in to help Arny in my little war with him. I only
resorted to profanity when he left me no choice, and I only hope I don't hurt my
case with the rest of the world by being so abrasive and profane with him. Arny
made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
GZ
Gene Lyle
wrote:
>
>I've yet to hear *anyone* chime in to help Arny in my little war with him. I only
>resorted to profanity when he left me no choice, and I only hope I don't hurt my
>case with the rest of the world by being so abrasive and profane with him. Arny
>made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
>
>
>GZ
>
Glenn,
Hey, don't take Arnold that seriously. Look at the facts.
1) RAO represents, what, one one-thousandth of the audiophile public?
How much real influence can he have?
2) He has shown himself to be a third-rate engineer at best, and he's
done it countless times. This is especially obvious when a real
engineer shows up and takes issue with him.
3) His many frailties are patently apparent after only brief exposure
to his postings. He seems unaware of how transparent he is.
4) RAO is his life. It's all he's got, poor thing.
Conclusion: an irritating but minor player on the audio cosmic scale.
Not to loose any sleep over. Fun to poke holes in, though.
Gene Lyle
Paul Dormer
>What only a few discussion with Arny Krüger can
>do to a seemingly nice guy:
Paul Dormer Me...@clara.net
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sound Design, Editing, Mastering
Steve Maki
> I've yet to hear *anyone* chime in to help Arny in my little war with him. I only
> resorted to profanity when he left me no choice, and I only hope I don't hurt my
> case with the rest of the world by being so abrasive and profane with him. Arny
> made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
So far you've shown, even after flying off the handle, some desire to stay
focused on the more useful topics. I've appreciated that.
--
Steve Maki
Phil
were caused by his being a member of "the resistance." However, if there
is any other cause, other than holding those opinions, the statement
below would be false.
"Arny Krüger" wrote:
> What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance" can
> do to a seemingly nice guy:
>
> http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=558611308
>
> " FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
> deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
Consider this quote: let's go to the post and see what motivated this
outburst. Is it just being part of the resistance or is there another
cause.
Here is the complete post 'til the quote:
Arny "Butt Nut" Krüger wrote:
> "Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
> news:384EFCB5...@z-sys.com...
> >
> > In my estimation, Paul Bamborough performed the most complete,
> > accurate, and credible demolition of Arny to date. I thought I'd
> emulate his
> > style.
>
> Asses with the same smell seem to flock together, it seems. ;-(
>
> One advantage, you get insensitive to your own smell and then you
> can persist in the delusion that your s#!+ don't stink! ;-)
How's this? FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
deserve every ounce of vitriol and hatred directed your way.
Note: the rather polite comment about Paul Bamborough actions followed
by a scatological response from Arny Krüger. it would appear that the
cause of Glenn's outburst was not being of "the resistance" but rather
having to debate with a nasty, mean spirited Arny Krüger.
Since many seem to get angry in the debate with Arny perhaps it is not
"the resistance" the telling of truth that Arny claims but Arny's nasty
form of debate.
By the way this form of taking a quote out of context and then change
its context as you just did, is a form of misquoting. A type of
intellectual dishonesty as mention in your post on that subject.
Phil
trotsky
Glenn Zelniker wrote:
>
> trotsky wrote:
>
> > "Arny Krüger" wrote (of Glenn Zelniker):
> > >
> > > What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance" can
> > > do to a seemingly nice guy:
>
> [snip lotsa examples of GZ directing the word "fuck" at Arny]
>
> > Krooger, he was trying to reason with you, and your intellectual Kroogerisms.
> > At this point you only have four robots left in your camp: Mickey, Cheezika,
> > Steindrone, and Tommi Notsiane. Howie doesn't count because he is mostly insane
> > too. Face it, Kroogles, the entire group is sick of your crap. Don't you have
> > *anything* to say for yourself? Any self-awareness *whatsoever*? I guess not.
>
> I've yet to hear *anyone* chime in to help Arny in my little war with him. I only
> resorted to profanity when he left me no choice, and I only hope I don't hurt my
> case with the rest of the world by being so abrasive and profane with him. Arny
> made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
I guess if there is a bright side, it would be that he probably has no problem
getting the Kroobitch to talk dirty to him.
George M. Middius
> Note: the rather polite comment about Paul Bamborough actions followed
> by a scatological response from Arny Krüger. it would appear that the
> cause of Glenn's outburst was not being of "the resistance" but rather
> having to debate with a nasty, mean spirited Arny Krüger.
According to what Glenn has said, you are correct. In fact,
Glenn, like other normals, has said he understands the
reactions and the tactics of the Resistance, but he does not
embrace them himself.
> Since many seem to get angry in the debate with Arny perhaps it is not
> "the resistance" the telling of truth that Arny claims but Arny's nasty
> form of debate.
Agreed.™ And Boogers calls it "the debating trade" for no
known reason.
George M. Middius
Sandman
> Arny Krüger wrote:
>
> > What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance" can
> > do to a seemingly nice guy:
> >
> > deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
> >
> >
> > "Keep it up, shit-for-brains. "
> >
> > "Oh, and ... Fuck you, troll."
> >
> > "Don't EVER try to tell me what I understand and what I don't
> > understand and don't EVER try to
> > misrepresent my beliefs about audio, you sick, twisted fuck."
>
> I also called you Fucknutz.
And let me guess... you're not going to stop there, are you? :-)
Sandman
Marc Blank
says...
> What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance" can
> do to a seemingly nice guy:
>
>
> " FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
> deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
>
>
> "WAKE THE FUCK UP!!! "
>
> http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=558734504
>
>
> "Oh, and ... Fuck you, troll."
>
>
> "Don't EVER try to tell me what I understand and what I don't
> understand and don't EVER try to
> misrepresent my beliefs about audio, you sick, twisted fuck."
>
>
> http://x29.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=559056492
>
> "Bravo, Mr. B. You've peered into the mind of a lunatic and lived
> to tell about it. I, myself, feel I've lost a bit of my own sanity
> in the process. "
>
> Seems like it was more than a little sanity that got lost! ;-)
>
Arny, you just bring out the best in people.
- m
Anonymous
>
> >From: Glenn Zelniker
> >Arny
> >made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
>
yes.
--
Zipser is a liar http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=369217967
Zipser is a scammer http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=368363274
Zipser is a cheater http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=374900703
Zipser is a THIEF http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=509980240
http://www.hyperreal.art.pl/cypher/remailer/
> By the way this form of taking a quote out of context and then change
> its context as you just did, is a form of misquoting. A type of
> intellectual dishonesty as mention in your post on that subject.
look whos talkin now. nother wombat mr zookeeper!
Mikeylikst
>What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance" can
>do to a seemingly nice guy:
>
>http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=558611308
>
>" FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
>deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
>
>Snip of more of the same.
Just one question, Why have you gone out of your way to provoke Mr. Z? I have
gone back to the beginning of his posts here and I can't find any reason for
the treatment you have dished up.
Why not engage peple like Glenn in straightforward dialoge? I certainly didn't
see anything from him in the beginning to cause him to be on your enemies list.
Mike McKelvy
the love you take is equal to the love you make..............
Mikeylikst
>I've yet to hear *anyone* chime in to help Arny in my little war with him. I
>only
>resorted to profanity when he left me no choice, and I only hope I don't hurt
>my
>case with the rest of the world by being so abrasive and profane with him.
No choice? That's as dishonest as anything Arny may have said to you or about
you. You always had a choice, in fact more than one.
Killfile.
Say nothing
Take the highground and stay civil.
>Arny
>made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
More dishonesty, or are we to beliecve you are that weak?
Mikeylikst
>Hey, don't take Arnold that seriously. Look at the facts.
>
>1) RAO represents, what, one one-thousandth of the audiophile public?
>How much real influence can he have?
RAO represents the 2 basic ways high end audio is treated by consumers IMO.
Arny may not have any influence but for the most part his stand is
representitive of those with an understanding of electronics.
>2) He has shown himself to be a third-rate engineer at best, and he's
>done it countless times.
Unless you are an engineer, ( my apologies if you are one) you have no way of
knowing.
>This is especially obvious when a real
>engineer shows up and takes issue with him.
Reasonable men can disagree.
>3) His many frailties are patently apparent after only brief exposure
>to his postings. He seems unaware of how transparent he is.
I doubt it. He seems very calculating and make no pretense.
>4) RAO is his life. It's all he's got, poor thing.
Making stuff up does not bloster your argument.
>Conclusion: an irritating but minor player on the audio cosmic scale.
>Not to loose any sleep over. Fun to poke holes in, though.
>
>Gene Lyle
Words to live by, and relative to all those who choose to be obnoxious. They
apply equally well to those in the "Resistance."
Arny Krüger
> trotsky wrote:
>
> > "Arny Krüger" wrote (of Glenn Zelniker):
> > >
resistance" can
> > > do to a seemingly nice guy:
>
>
> > Krooger, he was trying to reason with you, and your intellectual
Kroogerisms.
> > At this point you only have four robots left in your camp:
Mickey, Cheezika,
> > Steindrone, and Tommi Notsiane. Howie doesn't count because he
is mostly insane
> > too. Face it, Kroogles, the entire group is sick of your crap.
Don't you have
> > *anything* to say for yourself? Any self-awareness
*whatsoever*? I guess not.
>
with him.
None needed.
;-)
When you want to have a technical discussion without all your
childish hi-jinks just let me know.
Markus Laun
Glenn Zelniker wrote:
>
> I've yet to hear *anyone* chime in to help Arny in my little war with him.
> I only
> resorted to profanity when he left me no choice, and I only hope I don't hurt my
> case with the rest of the world by being so abrasive and profane with him. Arny
> made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
cheapo excuse. not accepted
>
> GZ
Arny Krüger
> Arny Krüger wrote:
>
> > What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance"
can
> > do to a seemingly nice guy:
> >
> > deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
> >
> >
> > "Keep it up, shit-for-brains. "
> >
> > "Oh, and ... Fuck you, troll."
> >
> > understand and don't EVER try to
> > misrepresent my beliefs about audio, you sick, twisted fuck."
>
>
I resemble that remark! ;-)
Arny Krüger
"Marc Blank" <mbl...@eidetic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.12bda093f...@enews.newsguy.com...
can
> > do to a seemingly nice guy:
> >
> >
> > " FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
> > deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
> >
> >
> > "WAKE THE FUCK UP!!! "
> >
> > http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=558734504
> >
> >
> > "Oh, and ... Fuck you, troll."
> >
> >
> > "Don't EVER try to tell me what I understand and what I don't
> > understand and don't EVER try to
> > misrepresent my beliefs about audio, you sick, twisted fuck."
> >
> >
> > http://x29.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=559056492
> >
> > "Bravo, Mr. B. You've peered into the mind of a lunatic and
lived
> > to tell about it. I, myself, feel I've lost a bit of my own
sanity
> > in the process. "
> >
> > Seems like it was more than a little sanity that got lost! ;-)
> >
>
> Arny, you just bring out the best in people.
>
I give you credit for staying a lot cooler than this.
Arny Krüger
>Arny made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
I seem to have that power over many.
Every switch has at least two sides. Turning "it" on is easy.
Turning "it" "off" is harder.
IMO, power should be used for good.
I've seemingly trained Shain and I just might train you. ;-)
Arny Krüger
"Gene Lyle" <lyle...@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:3853c4b0...@newsstand.tc.umn.edu...
>1) RAO represents, what, one one-thousandth of the audiophile
public? How much real influence can he have?
Ask John Atkinson. He acts like a person who might think I have had
a detrimental influence on his enterprises. After all, they are have
faltered, and many "great men" like him seem to seek out scapegoats.
> 2) He has shown himself to be a third-rate engineer at best, and
he's done it countless times.
Third rate? That good? Well, you did say "at best", so yes that is
probably a correct statement. ;-)
I know some engineers who are at least third rate and I am not
nearly as good at theory and/or practice as they are. However, we do
have these interesting discussions from time to time. Sometimes
people walk away from them and do interesting, useful things that
surprisingly enough have nothing to do with violence to my body. ;-)
However, I believe that a careful study of DN will show that nobody
has applied as much solid technical audio engineering to RAO
technical problems as I have. Some may disagree with a few of my pet
theories, but my current set of them has withstood quite a bit of
technical attack. In general, I dispense the engineering equivalent
of motherhood and apple pie. Just as nurturing, too! ;-)
If people like GlenZ would put their alleged great intellects into
gear, things could get interesting. However, thus far he seems to
has shown his willingness to piss in public. Generally, he states
"revealed truth" without details, support or proof. Then he opens up
his fly!
Of course, we have quite a few people who are unqualified to judge
engineering, and seem to just base their judgments on volume of
piss. Mr. Lyle seems to be one such person. Mr. Shain seems to be
another. People like Bamborough and Zelnicker can impress them quite
handily!
BTW, Lyle, what are your technical credentials?
Practicing "Real Engineers" generally have no time for food-fights
like RAO.
So RAO has to take what they can get! ;-)
One of the things they get is me. ;-)
Enjoy, argue constructively and technically, or killfile, those are
your logical options...
Arny Krüger
>Fun to poke holes in, though.
When have you personally done that?
Arny Krüger
"Paul Dormer" <me...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:385489c3...@news.clara.net...
> "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>
> >What only a few discussion with Arny Krüger can
> >do to a seemingly nice guy:
>
I think Glenn said it all: "Arny made me do it".
I been suspecting all along that he is some ways mentally quite
weak and easily influenced.
It is very nice that he admitted it so clearly.
Like Zip, one of these guys who would be better of had he never
discovered USENET.
Arny Krüger
"Phil" <ph...@media1.net> wrote in message
news:3853D6DE...@media1.net...
> The below statement seems to imply that the quotes from Glenn
Zelniker
> were caused by his being a member of "the resistance." However, if
there
> is any other cause, other than holding those opinions, the
statement
> below would be false.
>
>
> > What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance"
> > do to a seemingly nice guy:
> >
> >
> > " FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
> > deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
>
this
> outburst. Is it just being part of the resistance or is there
another
> cause.
>
> Here is the complete post 'til the quote:
>
> Arny "Butt Nut" Krüger wrote:
>
>
> > >
> > > In my estimation, Paul Bamborough performed the most complete,
> > > accurate, and credible demolition of Arny to date. I thought
I'd
> > emulate his
> > > style.
> >
> > Asses with the same smell seem to flock together, it seems. ;-(
> >
> > One advantage, you get insensitive to your own smell and then
you
> > can persist in the delusion that your s#!+ don't stink! ;-)
>
imbecile! You deserve every ounce of vitriol and hatred directed
your way.
> Note: the rather polite comment about Paul Bamborough actions
followed
> by a scatological response from Arny Krüger. it would appear that
the
> cause of Glenn's outburst was not being of "the resistance" but
rather
> having to debate with a nasty, mean spirited Arny Krüger.
As you will shortly admit, meaningless without more context.
> Since many seem to get angry in the debate with Arny perhaps it is
not
> "the resistance" the telling of truth that Arny claims but Arny's
nasty
> form of debate.
It's simple. Treat me nice, I'll treat you nice. Treat me mean, I
might just teach you about mean, but more like strongly focussed on
your own weaknesses.
For example, your weakness has always been practical application. I
have challenged you on several occasions to provide practical
examples that illustrated your apprehensions or misapprehension, and
that largely seems to cause you to falter.
> By the way this form of taking a quote out of context and then
change
> its context as you just did, is a form of misquoting.
It would be except for one little detail. I provided a hyperlink to
the entire text. One click, and my "cover" if there was one, was
completely "blown". IMO hyperlinking a document is pretty much
equivalent to imbedding the entire document.
However, the context was a post about somebody letting it "all hang
out". In that context, the quote of the "all hanging out" seems to
be all that is necessary.
> A type of intellectual dishonesty as mention in your post on that
subject.
Because of the hyperlink, no intellectual dishonesty at all. Just
leaving it to the reader whether they want to expand the hyperlink
out into the full text. You obviously were able to do that, proving
that there was no concealment of relevant facts.
Thus, your claim of intellectual dishonesty on my part becomes
intellectual dishonesty on your part. Or just a simple error.
Please pick one and respond... ;-)
Glenn Zelniker
> >From: Glenn Zelniker
>
> >I've yet to hear *anyone* chime in to help Arny in my little war with him. I
> >only
> >resorted to profanity when he left me no choice, and I only hope I don't hurt
> >my
> >case with the rest of the world by being so abrasive and profane with him.
>
> No choice? That's as dishonest as anything Arny may have said to you or about
> you. You always had a choice, in fact more than one.
>
> Killfile.
> Say nothing
> Take the highground and stay civil.
You're quite right, Mr. McKelvy. I was being a bit hyperbolic when I said I had
no choice. The killfile and "say nothing" options became more and more difficult
as Kruger attempted to draw my professional knowledge into question, however. The
impossibility of reasoned debate made your third option futile, at best.
> >Arny
> >made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
>
> More dishonesty, or are we to beliecve you are that weak?
Don't be so literal minded. It's neither dishonesty or weakness. It was a joke.
GZ
Glenn Zelniker
> "Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
> news:3853B6DC...@z-sys.com...
>
> >Arny made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
>
> I seem to have that power over many.
>
> Every switch has at least two sides. Turning "it" on is easy.
> Turning "it" "off" is harder.
"Get" "bent" , "loser."
GZ
Glenn Zelniker
> If people like GlenZ would put their alleged great intellects into
> gear, things could get interesting.
What the fuck is this supposed to mean? I have done more in my very
short audio career than you have done in a lifetime, you worthless sack
of shit. Take a look at all of the products I have developed before you
open your big, stupid mouth.
GZ
Glenn Zelniker
> When you want to have a technical discussion without all your
> childish hi-jinks just let me know.
I hate to be so dismissive, Arny, but I can't have a serious technical
discussion about audio with you for a number of reasons. Without
getting into the more troubling problems of your lying, your
dissembling, and your incredibly irritating style of argument, one
fundamental problem remains. You don't know very much and you're a
terrible student because you refuse to learn or to accept correction.
GZ
jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist
Oh, I can't possibly represent on a screen what I think of that.
Arny, you may POSSIBLY just have developed a whopping sense of humour.
You could have meant that, too, though.
--
Copyright j...@research.att.com 1999, all rights reserved, except transmission
by USENET and like facilities granted. This notice must be included. Any
use by a provider charging in any way for the IP represented in and by this
article and any inclusion in print or other media are specifically prohibited.
jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist
Markus Laun <goos...@cdsoft.de> wrote:
>Glenn Zelniker wrote:
>> I've yet to hear *anyone* chime in to help Arny in my little war with him.
>obviously didn't read my posts.
Neither did I, it appears. What kind of defense was this?
>> I only
>> resorted to profanity when he left me no choice, and I only hope I don't hurt my
>> case with the rest of the world by being so abrasive and profane with him. Arny
>> made me do it. He seems to have that power over me.
>cheapo excuse. not accepted
In short, you hold people responsible being human. There is a political
party we have here that does that too. People write songs about them,
things like "Supercallousmeanandnastyrightwinglegislation", for instance.
Kenneth Kirkpatrick
the problem, do what many have done before you. Consider the source and
blow it off. I never read Arny's posts. Life is too short to read his
foolish crap. IGNORE HIM. Cheers, Ken
Arny Krüger
"jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist" <j...@research.att.com> wrote
in message news:FMouM...@research.att.com...
> In article <5o554.3160$kX4....@news.rdc2.mi.home.com>,
> Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
> >I've seemingly trained Shain and I just might train you. ;-)
>
> Oh, I can't possibly represent on a screen what I think of that.
>
> Arny, you may POSSIBLY just have developed a whopping sense of
humour.
> You could have meant that, too, though.
You "caught" emoticon blindness, too? ;-)
If this place lightened up it would probably scare itself to death!
;-)
Arny Krüger
"Kenneth Kirkpatrick" <ken...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:38552B75...@gte.net...
> Glen, You pretty much summed him up with this statement. Now that
you know
> the problem, do what many have done before you. Consider the
source and
> blow it off. I never read Arny's posts. Life is too short to read
his
> foolish crap. IGNORE HIM. Cheers, Ken
Works for me, Ken. ;-)
Except for one or two little things, Ken, the facts:
(1) http://x23.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=550179666
Ken Kirkpatrick wrote:
"Arny, Have you ever heard really good analog? My turntable setup is
the most musical of all of my gear."
and
(2) http://x23.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=558642448
Which also responds to one of my posts.
You *never* read my posts? How did you respond to them, telepathy?
;-)
Analysis:
Response (1) positions you as a person who might feel threatened by
my comments on vinyl.
BTW, I don't pay too much attention to people who call black vinyl
"good analog". My personal standard for "good analog" is a fine live
recording done on a good pro or semi-pro machine, half-track and 15
ips (or faster). Anybody who thinks that vinyl comes within a
country mile of "good analog" would appear to be missing to some
pretty obvious audible differences. Or just never had the pleasure.
Or really into the the really quite audible distortion inherent in
vinyl as being euphonic.
I guess you may be pissed off at me because I did not respond to
your post in item (2) but this is the first time I saw it, in DN.
@home does not seem to do anything like a perfect job of
propagating NG posts. Sorry.
Arny Krüger
> Mikeylikst wrote:
>
> > >From: Glenn Zelniker
> >
> > >only
> > >resorted to profanity when he left me no choice, and I only
hope I don't hurt
> > >my
> > >case with the rest of the world by being so abrasive and
profane with him.
> >
to you or about
> > you. You always had a choice, in fact more than one.
> >
> > Killfile.
> > Say nothing
> > Take the highground and stay civil.
>
> You're quite right, Mr. McKelvy. I was being a bit hyperbolic
when I said I had
> no choice. The killfile and "say nothing" options became more and
more difficult
> as Kruger attempted to draw my professional knowledge into
question, however. The
> impossibility of reasoned debate made your third option futile, at
best.
>
Am I to take your comments about my er, "member" as being
"professional knowledge"? ;-)
If you've got a technical presentation to make, then make it.
If you just want everybody to believe what you say because after
all, it is you who said it, then just tell us! ;-)
Arny Krüger
If you are such a great technical expert why is it that you are
having such a hard time producing a credible technical defense for
your claims?
Phil
"Arny Krüger" wrote:
> "Phil" <ph...@media1.net> wrote in message
> news:3853D6DE...@media1.net...
> > The below statement seems to imply that the quotes from Glenn
> Zelniker
> > were caused by his being a member of "the resistance." However, if
> there
> > is any other cause, other than holding those opinions, the
> statement
> > below would be false.
> >
> > "Arny Krüger" wrote:
> >
> > > What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance"
> can
> > > do to a seemingly nice guy:
> > >
> > > http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=558611308
> > >
> > > " FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
> > > deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
> >
> > Consider this quote: let's go to the post and see what motivated
> this
> > outburst. Is it just being part of the resistance or is there
> another
> > cause.
> >
> > Here is the complete post 'til the quote:
> >
> > Arny "Butt Nut" Krüger wrote:
> >
> >
> > > "Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
> > > news:384EFCB5...@z-sys.com...
> > > >
> > > > In my estimation, Paul Bamborough performed the most complete,
> > > > accurate, and credible demolition of Arny to date. I thought
> I'd
> > > emulate his
> > > > style.
> > >
> > > Asses with the same smell seem to flock together, it seems. ;-(
> > >
> > > One advantage, you get insensitive to your own smell and then
> you
> > > can persist in the delusion that your s#!+ don't stink! ;-)
> >
> > How's this? FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman
> imbecile! You deserve every ounce of vitriol and hatred directed
> your way.
>
> > Note: the rather polite comment about Paul Bamborough actions
> followed
> > by a scatological response from Arny Krüger. it would appear that
> the
> > cause of Glenn's outburst was not being of "the resistance" but
> rather
> > having to debate with a nasty, mean spirited Arny Krüger.
>
> As you will shortly admit, meaningless without more context.
Is it meaningless that the real source of Glenn's comment was your
remarks, not "the resistance" as you implied.
>
>
> > Since many seem to get angry in the debate with Arny perhaps it is
> not
> > "the resistance" the telling of truth that Arny claims but Arny's
> nasty
> > form of debate.
>
> It's simple. Treat me nice, I'll treat you nice. Treat me mean, I
> might just teach you about mean, but more like strongly focussed on
> your own weaknesses.
>
> For example, your weakness has always been practical application. I
> have challenged you on several occasions to provide practical
> examples that illustrated your apprehensions or misapprehension, and
> that largely seems to cause you to falter.
The above is to show that you act like a bully. What do bully do? They
threaten people. What did you just do? Threaten me with the revelations
of an immaterial subject. In other words you act like a bully. Thank you
for so easily and succinctly proving my point.
>
>
> > By the way this form of taking a quote out of context and then
> change
> > its context as you just did, is a form of misquoting.
>
> It would be except for one little detail. I provided a hyperlink to
> the entire text. One click, and my "cover" if there was one, was
> completely "blown". IMO hyperlinking a document is pretty much
> equivalent to imbedding the entire document.
>
> However, the context was a post about somebody letting it "all hang
> out". In that context, the quote of the "all hanging out" seems to
> be all that is necessary.
>
> > A type of intellectual dishonesty as mention in your post on that
> subject.
>
> Because of the hyperlink, no intellectual dishonesty at all. Just
> leaving it to the reader whether they want to expand the hyperlink
> out into the full text. You obviously were able to do that, proving
> that there was no concealment of relevant facts.
>
> Thus, your claim of intellectual dishonesty on my part becomes
> intellectual dishonesty on your part. Or just a simple error.
>
> Please pick one and respond... ;-)
Actually the claim holds because of this statement that was place at the
top of the original post:
What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance" can
do to a seemingly nice guy:
This is the deconstruction that places the quotes out of context. The
context is the response by Glenn was motivated by your remarks. the
above statement tries to remove the true context.
The hyper links do not give you a license to misled or disassemble. Some
people may catch the disassembling, some may not, but you still are
misleading, thus misquoting, thus still intellectually dishonest.
Arny Krüger
But that sentence was at the bottom of my post. Your repositioning
of it, and then staking a claim on it being at the top of a post
just gets you in a little deeper.
Arny Krüger
Please disregard the post that was just sent in error.
jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist
Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>"jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist" <j...@research.att.com> wrote
>in message news:FMouM...@research.att.com...
>> In article <5o554.3160$kX4....@news.rdc2.mi.home.com>,
>> Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>> >I've seemingly trained Shain and I just might train you. ;-)
>> Oh, I can't possibly represent on a screen what I think of that.
>> Arny, you may POSSIBLY just have developed a whopping sense of
>humour.
>> You could have meant that, too, though.
>You "caught" emoticon blindness, too? ;-)
No, but that was a much bigger joke that I expect in this
group, then.
>If this place lightened up it would probably scare itself to death!
>;-)
No, the view of all the detritus would just convince us to turn
out the lights again.
Kenneth Kirkpatrick
played last year with JA about the debate took away all credibility I
have for you. You will never recover from this blunder. You made an
absolute fool of yourself. I absolutely do not give a rats ass about
anything you say on this group. I do not care if you love digital, or
analog, or live music. I don't care if you listen to music. I don't care
about your little black box. I don't care about your little web page. I
am sorry about your son, but that is about it. You just have no
credibility with me. End of discussion. Have a nice day, Ken
Phil
"Arny Krüger" wrote:
Arny, I'm sorry if you are confused. To make a logical argument you
state evidence. My contention was that you were changing the context of
the quotes. To prove that fact I had to show how you did that. The
sentence from the beginning of your post was the means that set the
context for the remaining of the original post.
Phil
Glenn Zelniker
> If you are such a great technical expert why is it that you are
> having such a hard time producing a credible technical defense for
> your claims?
***WHAT*** CLAIMS, YOU LUNATIC??????? ARE YOU JUST TRYING TO WIND ME
UP? QUIT LYING AND CHEATING.
DO YOU JUST MAKE THIS SHIT UP AS YOU GO ALONG?
WHAT CLAIMS? ANSWER ME.
GZ
Steve Zipser
You are an intelligent and honest individual. You are also a brilliant
engineer and designer of some of the finest professional audio and
audiophile products in the world. Your products have received accolades
from many of the world clas engineers I have dealt with - like Eric
Schilling Gloria Estevan, Julio Iglesias, and Natalie Cole), Vladi
Meiller if Sony CBS NY (Celine Dion), and Humberto Gattica (The Record
Plant in LA). They all sing the praises of your products - as does
Stereophile and Absolute Sound, etc. Your owndentials and you many
accomplishments are extraordinary and beyond question in anyone's
book...........
........except for a sick twisted moronic self-centered asshole named
Arnold Kreuger, AKA Kroogyoola. This moron sells junkbox PC clone
computers for a living, has no credentials at all, has no industry
experience to back him up, he lies like a rug, and twists everything
faster and more completely than a Texas tornado.
Your arguing with him is like arguing right and wrong with David
Berkowitz, Bill Clinton, Saddam Housaine, or Atilla the Hun. The guy
does not think logically, rationally, or morally. He is clearly insane,
and has no understanding of the topic at hand - and he has no cognitive
understanding of your arguments - no matter how cogent you state them and
no matter how rational they are.
This makes me wonder about why you even bother anymore. The best thing
you and Shane and JJ and other rational points of view around here can do
is to kilfile him and let him argue with himself and Middius and Singh,
You'll be better off, and so will rao.
Cheers
Zip
In article <3855439F...@z-sys.com>, gle...@z-sys.com says...
--
Sunshine Stereo, Inc http://sunshinestereo.com Tel: 305-757-9358
9535 Biscayne Blvd Miami Shores, FL 33138 Fax: 305-757-1367
Conrad Johnson Spectron Parasound Entech Gallo Davis NEAR Seleco PSB
Audible Illusions Straightwire Niles Oracle Faroudja Rega Benz-Micro
Dunlavy Lexicon Zenith Mordaunt-Short EAD CleanLines Monster RUNCO ESP
Nakamichi Genelec Solid Steel Camelot Salamander Audio Logic PASS NHT
Stereophi...@compuserve.com
"Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
> "Gene Lyle" <lyle...@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
> news:3853c4b0...@newsstand.tc.umn.edu...
>
> >public? How much real influence can he have?
>
> Ask John Atkinson. He acts like a person who might think I have had
> a detrimental influence on his enterprises.
Mr. Krüger, I have refrained from arguing with you on r.a.o. for a while on
the advice of a few Stereophile readers who feel that if I do not respond to
you, you will cease mentioning either Stereophile in general or me
personally. I am sorry to say that this has not happened and I am saddened
that you continue to bandy my name about this newsgroup.
In response to your request that Gene Lyle ask me about the influence you
have on my "enterprises," the answer is none. Zip. Zero. Nada. De rien. I
only engage you on this forum to correct the falsehoods about Stereophile or
about me that for reasons best known to yourself you disseminate. Given my
druthers, I would prefer to ignore the paranoid, narcissistic, smallminded,
mendacious misery in which you seem to exist. However, my sad experience has
been that a false statement that goes uncorrected is accepted by some
observers as being true merely because it has not been responded to. So it
goes.
> After all, they are have faltered, and many "great men" like him
> seem to seek out scapegoats.
First please note that I have never claimed "greatness." This is your
description and is not one I feel accurate. Second, if I take credit for
Stereophile's success at spreading the audiophile word, I must also take
responsibility for when it stumbles. However, I don't believe that
Stereophile _has_ faltered, nor would I seek out scapegoats if it did. For
you to take credit for anything that happens to any of my "enterprises" is
about as ridiculous as poor Howard Ferstler recently making a similar claim.
And I note that elsewhere in this thread, you claim that if you are treated
"nice," you will behave similarly. Sadly, this claim of yours is not born out
by the record. Both Paul Bamborough and I treated you with respect and
politeness when we were trying to educate you on the subject of nonlinear
music editing. Yet in return you were profane, insulting, and demeaning.
Glenn Zelniker tried treating you with respect and in return you behaved in a
similarly disrespectful manner. Now that he has given you back in kind, you
make him the butt of your "humor." Tell me sir, if you respond to postings
both polite and profane in the same derogatory, confrontational manner, when
_do_ you act nice? -- John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
"Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:VYa54.3197$kX4....@news.rdc2.mi.home.com...
Stereophi...@compuserve.com
gle...@z-sys.com wrote:
> The killfile and "say nothing" options became more and more difficult
> as Kruger attempted to draw my professional knowledge into
I couldn't agree more Glenn. In my opinion, you have treated Mr. Kruger with
respect and courtesy in all the discussions in which he has entangled you
until very recently. In return, you got slimed as Mr. Kruger, unable to make
any technical defense of his position, tried to reduce the discussion to
issues of personality.
> The impossibility of reasoned debate made your third option futile,
> at best.
And if you try to take the high ground, as Mr. McKelvy suggests, Arny
continues to take potshots both at you personally and at your professional
competence, as he continues to do with Paul Bamborough and with myself. Yet
if you try again to engage him in debate, you will again get drawn into his
paranoid web of obfuscation and deceit. Perhaps your current strategy truly
is the only one a man of integrity can adopt when faced with someone as
seriously disturbed as Mr. Kruger appears to be (as George Middius has
pointed out all along). -- John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile
Marc Blank
> In article <5o554.3160$kX4....@news.rdc2.mi.home.com>,
> Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
> >I've seemingly trained Shain and I just might train you. ;-)
>
> Oh, I can't possibly represent on a screen what I think of that.
>
> Arny, you may POSSIBLY just have developed a whopping sense of humour.
> You could have meant that, too, though.
>
To my mind, Ferstler may be taking this tack (i.e. humor). But I fear
that Arny has, indeed, trained them to fight back in an undignified
manner. I suspect he's pleased.
- m
Marc Blank
mikey...@aol.com says...
> >From: "Arny Krüger"
>
> >What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance" can
> >do to a seemingly nice guy:
> >
>
> >http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=558611308
> >
> >" FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
> >deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
> >
>
>
> Just one question, Why have you gone out of your way to provoke Mr. Z? I have
> gone back to the beginning of his posts here and I can't find any reason for
> the treatment you have dished up.
>
> Why not engage peple like Glenn in straightforward dialoge? I certainly didn't
> see anything from him in the beginning to cause him to be on your enemies list.
>
>
>
> Mike McKelvy
>
> the love you take is equal to the love you make..............
>
> http://members.aol.com/rlspeakers/THEREALLIFESOUNDPAGE.html
>
Thanks, Mike.
- m
Marc Blank
mikey...@aol.com says...
> >From: lyle...@tc.umn.edu (Gene Lyle)
>
> >Hey, don't take Arnold that seriously. Look at the facts.
> >
>
> >1) RAO represents, what, one one-thousandth of the audiophile public?
> >How much real influence can he have?
>
>
> Arny may not have any influence but for the most part his stand is
> representitive of those with an understanding of electronics.
>
No, I don't think so, Mike. RAO represents the extremes for the most
part. The objectivist extreme, which has NOTHING whatever to do with
objectivism, no less audio, is epitomized by Arny and seeks to disparage
personal preference. The subjectivist extreme, which also has NOTHING
whatever to do with subjectivism, no less audio, ferociously attacks
those on the other side, mainly on preference issues.
FWIW, I believe that the great majority of people here agree on most
technical issues, leaving them little to argue about but personality and
preference issues.
I think Arny's "stand" is very, very UNrepresentative of objectivists
when it comes to preference issues. Regarding technical issues, he seems
to be knowledgable up to a point, but he has little insight as to where
that point lies (viz. controversies with Glenn, jj, and Paul).
> >2) He has shown himself to be a third-rate engineer at best, and he's
> >done it countless times.
>
> Unless you are an engineer, ( my apologies if you are one) you have no way of
> knowing.
>
> >This is especially obvious when a real
> >engineer shows up and takes issue with him.
>
> Reasonable men can disagree.
>
> >3) His many frailties are patently apparent after only brief exposure
> >to his postings. He seems unaware of how transparent he is.
>
> I doubt it. He seems very calculating and make no pretense.
It is his calculating nature that is so disturbing. He calculates on
turning errors of his own into personal slugfests, mainly, I believe, to
cover up his own failures. In this manner, he has turned potential
"friends" here into enemies.
>
> >4) RAO is his life. It's all he's got, poor thing.
>
> Making stuff up does not bloster your argument.
Gene's point is certainly not proved, but it is hardly absurd on its
face. Just count the posts!
- m
Sandman
> "Arny Krüger" wrote:
>
> > If you are such a great technical expert why is it that you are
> > having such a hard time producing a credible technical defense for
> > your claims?
>
> ***WHAT*** CLAIMS, YOU LUNATIC??????? ARE YOU JUST TRYING TO WIND ME
> UP? QUIT LYING AND CHEATING.
>
> DO YOU JUST MAKE THIS SHIT UP AS YOU GO ALONG?
Yes, he does, Glenn. That's about all Arnii is made of. It's his
stock-in-trade.
> WHAT CLAIMS? ANSWER ME.
You're just inviting more of the same blArnii Krooglish. Sometimes, of
course, when utterly cornered, he ignores the post that cornered him for a
few weeks, then in another thread, repeats the idiocy that got him cornered
in the first place.
It's hopeless.
Sandman
> GZ
>
>
Arny Krüger
"Mikeylikst" <mikey...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991212232941...@ng-cv1.aol.com...
> >From: "Arny Krüger"
>
> >What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance"
can
> >do to a seemingly nice guy:
> >
>
> >http://x39.deja.com/[ST_rn=ap]/getdoc.xp?AN=558611308
> >
> >" FUCK YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman imbecile! You
> >deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your way."
> >
>
> >Snip of more of the same.
>
> Just one question, Why have you gone out of your way to provoke
Mr. Z?
If you unwind the discussion, that question need to be asked, of
Glenn
>I have gone back to the beginning of his posts here and I can't
find any reason for
> the treatment you have dished up.
If you go back to the beginning of his posts you will see his
attack, followed by his escellation of attacks.
> Why not engage peple like Glenn in straightforward dialoge?
I'd like to, but his approach has been basically: Things are the way
I say they are and you are insane to try to discuss the details
behind of it with me".
> I certainly didn't see anything from him in the beginning to
cause him to be on your enemies list.
You must have missed some stuff.
IMO, nothing I said to Glenn should have provoked all this weirdness
from him. He just blew up in my face and kept blowing.
Arny Krüger
"Marc Blank" <mbl...@eidetic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.12bef481d...@enews.newsguy.com...
I don't think you understand my view of Ferstler at all. If you want
to know it, send me some private email.
Arny Krüger
> No Arny, I am not pissed at you. I pity you. The lies and games
you
> played last year with JA about the debate took away all
credibility I
> have for you.
OK, so now you admit that there never was a chance in recent times
that you could respect me.
How do you justify your false claims?
Arny Krüger
the post that came 2 minutes behind it.
"Phil" <ph...@media1.net> wrote in message
news:38553DE8...@media1.net...
Arny Krüger
> "Arny Krüger" wrote:
>
> > If you are such a great technical expert why is it that you are
> > having such a hard time producing a credible technical defense
for
> > your claims?
>
> ***WHAT*** CLAIMS, YOU LUNATIC??????? ARE YOU JUST TRYING TO WIND
ME
> UP? QUIT LYING AND CHEATING.
>
> DO YOU JUST MAKE THIS SHIT UP AS YOU GO ALONG?
>
>
Your technical claims about dither, of course.
Arny Krüger
> I think Arny's "stand" is very, very UNrepresentative of
objectivists
> when it comes to preference issues. Regarding technical issues,
he seems
> to be knowledgable up to a point, but he has little insight as to
where
> that point lies (viz. controversies with Glenn, jj, and Paul).
Please explain the details of my recent or past technical
controversies with jj.
Glenn Zelniker
> "Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
> news:3855439F...@z-sys.com...
> > WHAT CLAIMS? ANSWER ME.
> >
>
> Your technical claims about dither, of course.
Enumerate those claims, please. Without lying. I have repeatedly said
I would fail your pcabx 16-15 bit challenge and that this dither
business was subtle at best and not reliably distinguished at ordinary
levels with non-pathological musical material under ordinary listening
conditions in ordinary rooms. I have said this over and over, Arny, and
made no technical claims beyond this. I have said this at least three
times in the past week and will gladly post references to support it.
I did, however, clearly state that there are very real situations in a
mastering environment (specifically, digital fades to silence of digital
source material) where dither is absolutely needed and the
presence/absence is readily audible.
Enumerate your claims, you lying sack of shit. You are so wrong on
this. I'm so sick of you misrepresenting my words and trying to turn
things around to meet your own pathetic need to look correct when you're
blatantly wrong. You are a miserable liar of the worst magnitude and I
will do everything I can to crucify your sorry ass unless you admit you
are wrong here.
GZ
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo)
> How do you justify your false claims?
BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
You're kidding, right! BWAHAHAHAHAHAH
That's the most farcical question I ever read on usenet!
BWAHHHAHAZHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAH
Your picture is under the word DICKHEAD in the DICKSHUNARY, Krooooger
Phil
"Arny Krüger" wrote:
Accepted post was in error all comments should be removed and not
consider valid. My error I didn't see the correction until after I post.
I stand corrected.
Phil
Paul Dormer
>I think Glenn said it all: "Arny made me do it".
Let's encapsulate that in one word.. "provocation".
>I been suspecting all along that he is some ways mentally quite
>weak and easily influenced.
I have suspected for some time that you are suffering from severe
distortions of reality.
>It is very nice that he admitted it so clearly.
It's nice that you publicly accept that you are.
>Like Zip, one of these guys who would be better of had he never
>discovered USENET.
I agree with you, it would have been better if you had not discovered
USENET.
Paul Dormer Me...@clara.net
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sound Design, Editing, Mastering
Paul Bamborough
Arny Krüger wrote ...
Complete and utter nonsense, obfuscation, dissimulation, low-grade
logic-chopping and deliberate obtuseness. Or, to put it another way, the best
that poor inadequate Mr. Krüger can do.
Dear Mr. Krüger,
The point that Phil made was that you designed your post to make it seem that
Glenn Zelniker was being rude to you out of the blue. Whether or not there was
a hyperlink was irrelevant: that was the rhetorical effect. And it was a piece
of (only too typical) dishonesty, because the facts remain these: Zelniker made
a rational statement, but you responded by dragging-in one of your obsessional
references to feces. This is presumably because you are unable to summon up any
form of rational argument, so instead you dredge slime from the infantile
cesspool of your mind.
Zelniker then lost his temper, and quite right too.
And you, dishonest little dissembler that you are, pretended that this was
something to do with "the Resistance", which Zelniker has not identified himself
with and with whom he has had no argument, and (knowing that you were being
refuted yet again) are now trying to obscure your dishonesty with pseudo-logical
bluster.
You are as pitiful as you are immoral.
p
Paul Bamborough
>If people like GlenZ would put their alleged great intellects into
>gear, things could get interesting. However, thus far he seems to
>has shown his willingness to piss in public. Generally, he states
>"revealed truth" without details, support or proof. Then he opens up
>his fly!
Dear Mr. Krüger,
I have asked you this before, but you don't answer. Why are you so deeply
obsesed with human bodily waste? Every single day you refer to it in one or
other of your posts; every single day you talk about it in connection with
someone you dislike.
And here is the interesting thing: you only seem to talk about urine or feces
when you are discussing someone who has annihilated your arguments, and shown
your knowledge up as the trite and superficial rehash of half-understood science
that it so transparently is. Not, I think, a coincidence.
You say:
>I believe that a careful study of DN will show that nobody
>has applied as much solid technical audio engineering to RAO
>technical problems as I have.
You are confusing quantity with quality. You do indeed post far more advice
than anyone else on this newsgroup: however, it virtually never has any
technical depth. Zelniker, or Frindle, or jj say more in a single post than you
do in a month.
I believe that you know this, and that it deeply upsets you. You know that you
are hopelessly outclassed in argument and knowledge, and I suspect you can't
even *understand* much of what is being said to you. I propose that this is why
you have to twist and distort it, why you endlessly change the subject, and why
you act so relentlessly obnoxious. You are desperately trying to obfuscate the
truth: and the truth is that you don't really know what you are talking about.
Your tactics don't work any more, Mr. Krüger, if indeed they ever did, and I
think you know that too. So what's left to you? Insults about excrement, the
most infantile of all obsessions.
I suggest that you now confine yourself to giving simple advice to those for
whom that is enough, and leave the serious engineers alone. On balance your
advice probably does more good than harm, and by not getting out of your league
you would save everybody a lot of trouble, and yourself embarrassment.
>Of course, we have quite a few people who are unqualified to judge
>engineering, and seem to just base their judgments on volume of
>piss. Mr. Lyle seems to be one such person. Mr. Shain seems to be
>another. People like Bamborough and Zelnicker can impress them quite
>handily!
I have just re-read some of your conversations with Glenn Zelniker. You don't
understand a word of his technical points, do you? Hence the volume of your
nonsense and dishonesty. As always, please feel free to explain rationally why
what I have written is 'piss'; remember, you will need evidence.
p
Paul Bamborough
Arny Krüger wrote tbo Glenn Zelniker...
>If you are such a great technical expert why is it that you are
>having such a hard time producing a credible technical defense for
>your claims?
Mr. Krüger:
I already knew that you had trouble distinguishing yourself and me. Now you're
confusing yourself with Mr. Zelniker.
*He* has produced a completely credible description of the background to the
generally accepted things he says about dither.
*You* have produced absolutely no evidence at all for your claims.
The burden of defense is on you, not on him. It is absolutely no use pretending
that any of this hangs on your own technically-suspect and uncontrolled PCABX
tests, and your repeated attempts to obfuscate by dragging them in is either
disingenuous or self-obsessed to the point of deluded solipsism.
p
Glenn Zelniker
> "Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
> news:38557354...@z-sys.com...
> When you stop posting as abusively as this I will try to make
> contact with you again.
You lie again, scumbag. Is this the best you can do when you're
completely cornered? I am abusive in my demeanor and language because
you are abusive to the truth. You are a coward and a liar of the worst
order. If I could find a way to be more abusive, I would.
Just admit you're wrong and I'll consider relenting. You are hopelessly
outgunned technically and incapable of admitting it. Face it: you're a
little pissant know-nothing and it's all too easy to make you look like
the moron you are. You make it soooo easy. Show a little humility when
you've had your ass kicked up and down the NG. Your arms and legs are
missing, your teeth are all knocked out, and your eyes are blackened.
You seem to be the only one who doesn't realize it. Be a mensch. Tell
the truth. Start being just a *little* honest. Until then, you deserve
the worst everyone can heap upon you.
GZ
Steve Zipser
sand...@mediaone.net says...
> Hell, any one sentence from any of those guys (or you, or JA, or any number
> of other genuine scientists/engineers who have posted to RAO) has more depth
> than anything Arnii's ever said in his lifetime.
>
I don't know, Jim. Kreuger piles the shit awfully deep around here ;-)
Zip
George M. Middius
>> Enumerate your claims, you lying sack of shit. You are so wrong on
>> this. I'm so sick of you misrepresenting my words and trying to
>> turn things around to meet your own pathetic need to look correct
>> when you're blatantly wrong. You are a miserable liar of the worst
>> magnitude and I will do everything I can to crucify your sorry ass
>> unless you admit you are wrong here.
> When you stop posting as abusively as this I will try to make
> contact with you again.
But Boogers, every word Glenn said is indisputably true. You
*are* a lying sack of shit. You *are* pathetic. You are
*invariably* wrong about practically everything you ever say.
You *are* a miserable liar, and your ass *is* sorry, just like
the rest of your miserable, disgusting, fetid self.
Arnii, you are the reason garbage moves upwind.
[This post reformatted by Paul Bamborough Engineering,
laboring tirelessly to de-Kroogerize Usenet]
George M. Middius
Andrew Thibault
Glenn Zelniker wrote:
> "Arny Krüger" wrote:
> > "Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
> > news:3855439F...@z-sys.com...
> > > WHAT CLAIMS? ANSWER ME.
> > Your technical claims about dither, of course.
> Enumerate those claims, please. Without lying.
Without lying? You'd have better luck getting the Earth to spin in the
opposite direction.
jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist
Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>"Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
>news:3855439F...@z-sys.com...
>> WHAT CLAIMS? ANSWER ME.
>Your technical claims about dither, of course.
Which are? Will someone enlighten me here?
jj
--
Copyright j...@research.att.com 1999, all rights reserved, except transmission
by USENET and like facilities granted. This notice must be included. Any
use by a provider charging in any way for the IP represented in and by this
article and any inclusion in print or other media are specifically prohibited.
Bruce J. Richman
>>cheapo excuse. not accepted
>
>In short, you hold people responsible being human. There is a political
>party we have here that does that too. People write songs about them,
>things like "Supercallousmeanandnastyrightwinglegislation", for instance.
>
>--
jj - this sounds like something Mark Russell might do in one of his PBS
concerts. Is it? Or possibly an invention of the Capital Steps, the
Washington,D.C. satirical group?
By coincidence, I was listening to day to 3 satirists from yesteryear - Allan
Sherman (Hello Muddah, Hello Faddah - and other ditties), Tom Lehrer (The Old
Dope Peddler, Lobachevsky, and my favorite, the Masochism Tango), and Kinky
Friedman & the Texas Jewboys (yes - that's the real name of the group -
although I think Kinky still records when he's not writing novels - author of
Something's Wrong with The Beaver and other ditties).
Bruce J. Richman
viz...@bellatlantic.net
and tiring philalethist) wrote:
>In article <Bce54.3350$kX4....@news.rdc2.mi.home.com>,
>Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>>"Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
>>news:3855439F...@z-sys.com...
>>> WHAT CLAIMS? ANSWER ME.
>
>>Your technical claims about dither, of course.
>
>Which are? Will someone enlighten me here?
>
In short, JJ, Glenn had stated repeatedly that dithering
should be employed routinely in all situations. In the few and rare
instances where its benefits might not be immediately apparent, it
does no harm at worst, and might provide some benefit at best.
Mr. Krueger has argued strenuously that there are instances
where dithering is not necessary and should not be done, and that Mr.
Zelnicker is wrong to insist that dithering should be applied
regardless of situation.
I believe that sums it up.
Ed
At least, that's what I've gleaned. Others should feel free to
add, subtract, edit etc.
Arny Krüger
> "Arny Krüger" wrote:
>
> > "Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
> > news:3855439F...@z-sys.com...
> > > WHAT CLAIMS? ANSWER ME.
> > >
> >
> > Your technical claims about dither, of course.
>
said
> I would fail your pcabx 16-15 bit challenge and that this dither
> business was subtle at best and not reliably distinguished at
ordinary
> levels with non-pathological musical material under ordinary
listening
> conditions in ordinary rooms. I have said this over and over,
Arny, and
> made no technical claims beyond this. I have said this at least
three
> times in the past week and will gladly post references to support
it.
>
> I did, however, clearly state that there are very real situations
in a
> mastering environment (specifically, digital fades to silence of
digital
> source material) where dither is absolutely needed and the
> presence/absence is readily audible.
>
Sandman
Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:7Fg54.3512$kX4....@news.rdc2.mi.home.com...
Glenn - don't be decieved. This is Arnii's way of saying he can't answer
you but that within a week or so you'll see his same BS which ignited your
outrage repeated in another thread as if you'd never addressed it.
Sandman
>
>
Arny Krüger
<Stereophi...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:833nu3$pug$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> Glenn Zelniker tried treating you with respect and in return you
behaved in a
> similarly disrespectful manner.
Hardly.
> Now that he has given you back in kind, you make him the butt of
your "humor."
When dealing with a person who has so throughly lost it again and
again, basically it seems like one either laughs or cries.
> Tell me sir, if you respond to postings both polite and profane
in the same derogatory, confrontational manner, when
> _do_ you act nice?
As you said at the onset: "If".
That means there is an alternative.
However, as long as you make continue to posts like this, there is
quite a likelihood you will never experience it with me. ;-(
Gene Lyle
wrote:
>
>However, as long as you make continue to posts like this, there is
>quite a likelihood you will never experience it with me. ;-(
>
>
Arnold,
Is this a translation from the Japanese...? I think I heard it in
Godzilla or Mothra but I'm not sure. Please enlighten me.
Gene Lyle
Sandman
Paul Bamborough <pa...@bamborough.com> wrote in message
news:3855...@news.jakinternet.co.uk...
> Arny Krüger wrote...
> >I believe that a careful study of DN will show that nobody
> >has applied as much solid technical audio engineering to RAO
> >technical problems as I have.
>
> You are confusing quantity with quality. You do indeed post far more
advice
> than anyone else on this newsgroup: however, it virtually never has any
> technical depth. Zelniker, or Frindle, or jj say more in a single post
than you
> do in a month.
Hell, any one sentence from any of those guys (or you, or JA, or any number
of other genuine scientists/engineers who have posted to RAO) has more depth
than anything Arnii's ever said in his lifetime.
Sandman
Gene Lyle
addressing a few Arnold's "points."
On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:28:50 GMT, "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net>
wrote:
>
>"Gene Lyle" <lyle...@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
>news:3853c4b0...@newsstand.tc.umn.edu...
>
>>1) RAO represents, what, one one-thousandth of the audiophile
>public? How much real influence can he have?
>
>Ask John Atkinson. He acts like a person who might think I have had
>a detrimental influence on his enterprises. After all, they are have
>faltered, and many "great men" like him seem to seek out scapegoats.
>
This has got to be one of his more psychotic ramblings. I think JA has
spoken for himself quite effectively and needs no help from me. He's
part of a successful publishing enterprise. He understands his subject
matter. He doesn't dodge face-to-face debates. No, I don't think John
is particularly concerned about Arnolds "detrimental (maybe we should
put the emphasis on the term 'mental') influence" on his publication.
And Arnold, if you're listening, would you be so kind as to translate
the "...they are have faltered..." part of his statement, please?
I stopped by Barnes and Noble and Borders Books tonight on my way home
from the office looking for a copy of "Krugerophile" or "The Absolute
Krueger" or "Hi Fi News and Krueger Review" but I couldn't find a
single one! Danged if they never heard of 'em! Must have been sold out
of the works of that great influential audio nut from Michigan.
>> 2) He has shown himself to be a third-rate engineer at best, and
>he's done it countless times.
>
>Third rate? That good? Well, you did say "at best", so yes that is
>probably a correct statement. ;-)
OK, Ok, I give! Fourth-rate. Now are you happy ;-)
>
>I know some engineers who are at least third rate and I am not
>nearly as good at theory and/or practice as they are.
Obviously!!!
>surprisingly enough have nothing to do with violence to my body. ;-)
I have no interest of any kind in Arnold's body, including doing
violence to it. I'll leave that up to him. (Another smarmy winky
required here ;-))
>
>However, I believe that a careful study of DN will show that nobody
>has applied as much solid technical audio engineering to RAO
>technical problems as I have.
It's not just his technical knowledge, it's his attitude and corrosive
argumentation that's the problem, as has been pointed out countless
times buy countless posters. But, yes, his technical arguments are
also often pathetically weak and uninformed, as been apparent often
when he bumps up against someone with greater skills and knowledge.
>
>If people like GlenZ would put their alleged great intellects into
>gear, things could get interesting. However, thus far he seems to
>has shown his willingness to piss in public. Generally, he states
>"revealed truth" without details, support or proof. Then he opens up
>his fly!
Total bullshit! No comment required. A blind man could see through
this.
>
>BTW, Lyle, what are your technical credentials?
Ah, we come now to the inevitable dick-measuring part. Technical
credentials? I can read. I can read what Arnold posts. I can read what
people like Glenn Z and Paul B post. I can put 2 & 2 together. Nothing
more than the command of the native tongue is required.
>
>Practicing "Real Engineers" generally have no time for food-fights
>like RAO.
They do when their credibility is called into question by a nothing
dweeb with no track record of even mediocre success in audio.
>
>
>Enjoy, argue constructively and technically, or killfile, those are
>your logical options...
My option is to occasionally assist in pointing out Arnold's many
frailties because I find it enjoyable. One of his obvious failings, of
course, is that he does not "argue constructively." Not even close.
But I'll admit it is entertaining to see him consistently trashed for
his pathetic efforts. Good show.
Gene Lyle
Arny Krüger
at the
> top of the original post:
>
> What only a few weeks on RAO in the company of "the resistance"
can
> do to a seemingly nice guy:
>
Wrong. The reason the quotes are in context is the hyperlinks, and a
sentence at the beginning, end or middle of the post does not negate
the presence of all the hyperlinks to the original text.
>The hyper links do not give you a license to misled or disassemble.
The hyperlinks provide near-instant full quotes. Therefore, they
provide the reader with the means to reach their own conclusions.
>Some people may catch the disassembling, some may not, but you
still are misleading, thus misquoting, thus still intellectually
dishonest.
Since I have effectively provided the full text in a larger context
via the hyperlinks, all that can be said is that some readers will
read the full text and reach their own conclusions, which may or may
not agree with mine. I have not done anything to keep them from
seeing every relevant fact with the greatest of ease.
This is very unlike ordinary quotes in academic papers were
expanding a quote to the full context requires additional, often
time-consuming research.
Sandman
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo) <z...@sunshinestereo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.12bf771a5...@news.mia.bellsouth.net...
number
> > of other genuine scientists/engineers who have posted to RAO) has more
depth
> > than anything Arnii's ever said in his lifetime.
> >
>
LOL!!!!
Sandman
http://www.hyperreal.art.pl/cypher/remailer/
>
> No Arny, I am not pissed at you. I pity you. The lies and games you
> played last year with JA about the debate took away all credibility I
YDKS
--
Zipser is a liar http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=369217967
Zipser is a scammer http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=368363274
Zipser is a cheater http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=374900703
Zipser is a THIEF http://dejanews.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=509980240
Phil
"Arny Krüger" wrote:
Your argument does not hold water. The appearance of hyper links does
not hid the fact that the purpose of your post was to imply that the
outburst of Glenn Z was caused by "the resistance" rather than the truth
by your own actions.
It is doubly hurtful that you blame your detractors for actions that in
truth you caused. This can hardly be call honest debate technique.
Also in an academic paper if you hid information the counter your base
contention this would be consider academic misconduct. The assumption is
that the writer is trying to hide the fact from the not careful
reviewer, just as you were trying to hid the fact from the not careful
reader. It is consider unacceptable technique and is ground for
rejection of an academic paper, as well as a removal from a Ph.D.
program.
To put it simple, you don't lie or misled. You put everything out front.
You don't leave it out and you don't hide it.
Phil
Anonymous
>
> Accepted post was in error all comments should be removed and not
> consider valid. My error I didn't see the correction until after I post.
> I stand corrected.
now apologize profusely for yur errounous
postings on stats.
Arny Krüger
Such a simple-minded analysis!
> It is doubly hurtful that you blame your detractors for actions
that in
> truth you caused.
I did not cause Glenn to start a war with me. I was perfectly happy
to converse with him in an ordinary way, as I had just previously
done on RAHE, and had Glenn continued to make reasonable posts, I
would have continued to do that indefinately.
>This can hardly be call honest debate technique.
That sentence could hardly be called something that was written with
even a modicum of care or consideration. Anybody ever tell you about
being consistent with tenses in a sentence?
> Also in an academic paper if you hid information the counter your
base
> contention this would be consider academic misconduct.
Straw man. I did not hide any information. I included it in my
document via a hyperlink.
Now, is intentional fabrication of straw man arguments conformance
to a good standard for intellectual honesty?
In your world, seemingly it is! ;-(
Arny Krüger
>
> Complete and utter nonsense, obfuscation, dissimulation, low-grade
> logic-chopping and deliberate obtuseness. Or, to put it another
way, the best
> that poor inadequate Mr. Krüger can do.
>
> Dear Mr. Krüger,
>
> The point that Phil made was that you designed your post to make
it seem that
> Glenn Zelniker was being rude to you out of the blue.
That is what the facts show started at the onset.
>Whether or not there was a hyperlink was irrelevant: that was the
rhetorical effect.
So you would like us to believe. However, the facts are there for
all who have a NG client that quickly activates hyperlinks when you
double click them. Does your NG client do this?
> And it was a piece of (only too typical) dishonesty, because the
facts remain these: Zelniker made
> a rational statement, but you responded by dragging-in one of your
obsessional
> references to feces.
This would appear to be an intentional removal of relevant evidence.
My version of the story is that I had an interchange with Glenn over
on RAHE where he attempted to correct a technical error I made. I
agreed with his correction, but unfortunately he also made a
technical error in his correction. I saw it, but did not want to
embarass him. But, somebody else also saw it and corrected him.
Shortly thereafter he started ranting on RAO with the following:
http://x22.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=554995387
"First, there was Arny's utter annihilation at the hands of the
estimable Paul Bamborough."
And etc.
The rest is yet another tawdry in the shameful history of RAO.
I believe that your associate has made an important observation. The
name of this group should be changed to rec.arny.opinion since it
seems to have a lot more to do with me than audio! ;-)
Thanks for your contributions to my ever-increasing USENET
pervasiveness. I believe that you can find out more about the
official procedures for making such a change at
http://www.landfield.com/usenet/usenet.html . ;-)
Arny Krüger
> Well, let's see, how might one respond to such drivel. Perhaps by
> addressing a few Arnold's "points."
>
> On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 12:28:50 GMT, "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Gene Lyle" <lyle...@tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
> >news:3853c4b0...@newsstand.tc.umn.edu...
> >
> >>1) RAO represents, what, one one-thousandth of the audiophile
> >public? How much real influence can he have?
> >
> >Ask John Atkinson. He acts like a person who might think I have
had
> >a detrimental influence on his enterprises. After all, they are
have
> >faltered, and many "great men" like him seem to seek out
scapegoats.
> This has got to be one of his more psychotic ramblings. I think JA
has
> spoken for himself quite effectively and needs no help from me.
But, being a "concerned citizen" you will do your part anyway! ;-)
>He's
> part of a successful publishing enterprise. He understands his
subject
> matter. He doesn't dodge face-to-face debates. No, I don't think
John
> is particularly concerned about Arnolds "detrimental (maybe we
should
> put the emphasis on the term 'mental') influence" on his
publication.
> And Arnold, if you're listening, would you be so kind as to
translate
> the "...they are have faltered..." part of his statement, please?
> I stopped by Barnes and Noble and Borders Books tonight on my way
home
> from the office looking for a copy of "Krugerophile" or "The
Absolute
> Krueger" or "Hi Fi News and Krueger Review" but I couldn't find a
> single one! Danged if they never heard of 'em! Must have been sold
out
> of the works of that great influential audio nut from Michigan.
I pretty well gave up publishing on paper about 20 years ago. Looks
like Atkinson is trying to do the same right now! ;-)
> >> 2) He has shown himself to be a third-rate engineer at best,
and
> >he's done it countless times.
>
> >Third rate? That good? Well, you did say "at best", so yes that
is
> >probably a correct statement. ;-)
> OK, Ok, I give! Fourth-rate. Now are you happy ;-)
No, I think that is an insult to all the great fourth-rate engineers
in the world. I don't know what "rate" I am, but IMO its someplace
down around "Barely an engineer". IOW, about 100,000 times the
engineer that you could pretend to be, were you so inclined and
ambitious. ;-)
> >I know some engineers who are at least third rate and I am not
> >nearly as good at theory and/or practice as they are.
> Obviously!!!
>
> >surprisingly enough have nothing to do with violence to my body.
;-)
> I have no interest of any kind in Arnold's body, including doing
> violence to it. I'll leave that up to him. (Another smarmy winky
> required here ;-))
Whatever.
> >However, I believe that a careful study of DN will show that
nobody
> >has applied as much solid technical audio engineering to RAO
> >technical problems as I have.
> It's not just his technical knowledge, it's his attitude and
corrosive
> argumentation that's the problem, as has been pointed out
countless
> times buy countless posters.
I do have entirely too much fun at the expense of a great list of
stuffed shirts and poseurs, don't I? ;-)
> But, yes, his technical arguments are
> also often pathetically weak and uninformed, as been apparent
often
> when he bumps up against someone with greater skills and
knowledge.
Really? How would you know?
> >If people like GlenZ would put their alleged great intellects
into
> >gear, things could get interesting. However, thus far he seems to
> >has shown his willingness to piss in public. Generally, he
states
> >"revealed truth" without details, support or proof. Then he opens
up
> >his fly!
> Total bullshit! No comment required. A blind man could see through
this.
Just for grins, please find a recent technical comment from GlenZ
that included any kind of formal support. ;-)
> >BTW, Lyle, what are your technical credentials?
> Ah, we come now to the inevitable dick-measuring part. Technical
> credentials? I can read. I can read what Arnold posts. I can read
what
> people like Glenn Z and Paul B post. I can put 2 & 2 together.
Nothing
> more than the command of the native tongue is required.
In short, if somebody starts talking technical, your eyes roll right
up into your forehead. ;-(
When awakened, you immediately grant an opinion about who has made
the better technical presentation. ;-)
> >Practicing "Real Engineers" generally have no time for
food-fights like RAO.
> They do when their credibility is called into question by a
nothing
> dweeb with no track record of even mediocre success in audio.
Let's talk about you calling my credibility into question when your
track record of sucess in audio is microscopic, even when compared
to mine. Let's not!
> >Enjoy, argue constructively and technically, or killfile, those
are
> >your logical options...
> My option is to occasionally assist in pointing out Arnold's many
> frailties because I find it enjoyable.
I think that one need not to get down on his knees in front of an
open zipper to expose my frailties. I think that rather, you
actually enjoy that postion for whatever reason. Hey, whatever winds
your clock! I guess that if one is into that sort of thing, it works
better for you if John Atkinson praises the guy with the open zipper
before you do your "stuff". ;-)
>One of his obvious failings, of course, is that he does not "argue
constructively." Not even close.
> But I'll admit it is entertaining to see him consistently trashed
for his pathetic efforts. Good show.
IMO, the better show is just watching you be you! ;-)
Have a great day, and I hope that you are able to use what you
demonstrate so well on RAO to further your academic career.
I've definitely seen that work for others. ;-(
Arny Krüger
> You lie again, scumbag. Is this the best you can do when you're
> completely cornered?
I thought this was not a, err..., contest! ;-)
> I am abusive in my demeanor and language because you are abusive
to the truth.
My crystal ball says that you've got a long, unhappy life ahead of
you. Furthermore, my historical studies show that you have not been
all that happy in the past.
> You are a coward and a liar of the worst order.
Nahh, just mediocre.
>If I could find a way to be more abusive, I would.
Let me recommend some time in the armed forces or on a construction
site. Worked for me! ;-)
> Just admit you're wrong and I'll consider relenting.
I've got 4 cheeks. You can come up to Detroit and start kissing them
at your earliest convenience! ;-)
> You are hopelessly outgunned technically and incapable of
admitting it.
So far, I've seen no evidence that you even know how to load your
"gun", intellectually; let alone actually point it at me and use it.
> Face it: you're a
> little pissant know-nothing and it's all too easy to make you look
like
> the moron you are.
So show me up with some great technical analysis of one of my posts
to a newbie, or something like that.
>You make it soooo easy.
Last time you corrected me on RAHE I graciously accepted your
comment, and ignored the error in your "correction". Still smarting
from the fact that somebody else pointed it out?
AFAIK, that is the last TECHNICAL discussion we had. Since then it
has just been you pissing in public at RAO. Well, good excuse to
thrill the boys in your band, I guess.
> Show a little humility when you've had your ass kicked up and
down the NG.
I'm completely unsure if you have enough experience with humilty to
recognize it at the great distance you stay away from it! ;-)
>Your arms and legs are missing, your teeth are all knocked out,
and your eyes are blackened.
And I'm having entirely too much fun! ;-)
> You seem to be the only one who doesn't realize it.
Sue me for not sharing your "vision"! ;-)
> Be a mensch. Tell the truth. Start being just a *little*
honest. Until then, you deserve
> the worst everyone can heap upon you.
I'm sure that you will do your little part...
Arny Krüger
>
> >If you are such a great technical expert why is it that you are
> >having such a hard time producing a credible technical defense
for
> >your claims?
>
>
> Mr. Krüger:
>
> I already knew that you had trouble distinguishing yourself and
me. Now you're
> confusing yourself with Mr. Zelniker.
>
> *He* has produced a completely credible description of the
background to the
> generally accepted things he says about dither.
I guess my IDP's NG server never got that message.
> *You* have produced absolutely no evidence at all for your claims.
Actually I did, but it was long before you entered the discussion.
You might try searching on 'PDF" and "PSD".
> The burden of defense is on you, not on him.
Just your ignorance of the facts taking.
>It is absolutely no use pretending
> that any of this hangs on your own technically-suspect and
uncontrolled PCABX
> tests, and your repeated attempts to obfuscate by dragging them in
is either
> disingenuous or self-obsessed to the point of deluded solipsism.
Oh, I love this. We finally get down to the real issue: PCABX.
Please explain my my pcabx tests are uncontrolled and technically
suspect.
You might want to cite actual results that you can point to as being
"uncontrolled" and "technically suspect".
And, provide a list of technical items that are not, in some sense,
suspect.
If you think that is easy, you might want to read Frindle's recent
(excellent and lucid as usual) post on the topic of the provisonal
nature of science and my virtual ownership of RAO. ;-)
>
> p
>
>
>
>
Arny Krüger
<viz...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:so4b5s8rba82hb3la...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:17:12 GMT, j...@research.att.com (jj,
curmudgeon
> and tiring philalethist) wrote:
>
> >In article <Bce54.3350$kX4....@news.rdc2.mi.home.com>,
> >Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
> >>> WHAT CLAIMS? ANSWER ME.
> >
> >>Your technical claims about dither, of course.
> >
> >
>
> In short, JJ, Glenn had stated repeatedly that dithering
> should be employed routinely in all situations. In the few and
rare
> instances where its benefits might not be immediately apparent, it
> does no harm at worst, and might provide some benefit at best.
>
> Mr. Krueger has argued strenuously that there are instances
> where dithering is not necessary and should not be done, and that
Mr.
> Zelnicker is wrong to insist that dithering should be applied
> regardless of situation.
>
> I believe that sums it up.
>
I surely hope that Glenn corrects you about this. If this is
ACTUALLY his position, I've already won! ;-)
Arny Krüger
>
> >If people like GlenZ would put their alleged great intellects
into
> >gear, things could get interesting. However, thus far he seems to
> >has shown his willingness to piss in public. Generally, he
states
> >"revealed truth" without details, support or proof. Then he opens
up
> >his fly!
>
>
>
> I have asked you this before, but you don't answer. Why are you
so deeply
> obsesed with human bodily waste?
Something to do with the volumes of it I produce every day! ;-)
> Every single day you refer to it in one or
> other of your posts; every single day you talk about it in
connection with
> someone you dislike.
Oh, well if you guys would quit pissing and defecating in public,
I'd stop talking about it! ;-)
> And here is the interesting thing: you only seem to talk about
urine or feces
> when you are discussing someone who has annihilated your
arguments, and shown
> your knowledge up as the trite and superficial rehash of
half-understood science
> that it so transparently is. Not, I think, a coincidence.
You have hardly annihilated my arguements because they continue to
grow and proliferate. You had a little fun, but hey, whatever. You
now seem to be afraid to do anything but blow smoke and reminisce
about the good old days when you had a cat or a chicken leg to stand
on.
> You say:
>
> >I believe that a careful study of DN will show that nobody
> >has applied as much solid technical audio engineering to RAO
> >technical problems as I have.
> You are confusing quantity with quality. You do indeed post far
more advice
> than anyone else on this newsgroup: however, it virtually never
has any
> technical depth.
That has a lot to do with the basic nature of the questions that are
asked, don'tcha think?
>Zelniker, or Frindle, or jj say more in a single post than you do
in a month.
Frindle is IMO quite cool. JJ obviously knows his stuff, but his
track record for "cool" is pretty spotty. Thusfar you have been just
a bombastic, posturing waste of my time. Maybe you could improve,
perhaps by thinking about 10% as deeply and clearly as Frindle does.
Does Frindle do any work for you?
However, if you would like to take exception to some of my technical
comments, or try to duplicate a tiny part of my track record for
helping people in trouble, please be my guest.
> I believe that you know this, and that it deeply upsets you. You
know that you
> are hopelessly outclassed in argument and knowledge, and I suspect
you can't
> even *understand* much of what is being said to you.
I wish that were true. It's sort of like the knowing the difference
between good and evil. Take Shain. He seems to be an absolute audio
technology know-nothing. You make him very happy. I'm in favor of
happy. Happy is good. I read your stuff and realize what a posturing
fool you are and how throughly you have deceived yourself about your
personal magnificence. This makes me sad. Sad is bad.
>I propose that this is why you have to twist and distort it, why
you endlessly change the subject, and why
> you act so relentlessly obnoxious. You are desperately trying to
obfuscate the
> truth: and the truth is that you don't really know what you are
talking about.
This strikes me as being just more evidence of your own
self-deception.
> Your tactics don't work any more, Mr. Krüger, if indeed they ever
did, and I
> think you know that too. So what's left to you? Insults about
excrement, the
> most infantile of all obsessions.
My tactics work just fine. You are still engaged. You are still
working hard to demolish me. And you are still spinning your
wheels.
My strategy is also beginning to cause you pain. At some point the
pain will become more than what you can stand. Bye Bye Mr.
Bamborough! ;-)
> I suggest that you now confine yourself to giving simple advice to
those for
> whom that is enough, and leave the serious engineers alone.
I have not seen much evidence of serious engineering in your
discussions. Once you provide evidence that you are capable of
serious engineering discussion, I would be happy to revise my opinon
of you.
> On balance your
> advice probably does more good than harm, and by not getting out
of your league
> you would save everybody a lot of trouble, and yourself
embarrassment.
I continue to find it very interesting that you consider ANY of your
posts on RAO to date to constitute serious engineering discussion.
> >Of course, we have quite a few people who are unqualified to
judge
> >engineering, and seem to just base their judgments on volume of
> >piss. Mr. Lyle seems to be one such person.
He claims no technical credentials whatsover.
> > Mr. Shain seems to be another.
poseurs
>> People like Bamborough and Zelnicker can impress them quite
handily!
> I have just re-read some of your conversations with Glenn
Zelniker. You don't
> understand a word of his technical points, do you?
Please quote some of what you consider to be his technical points.
Between the smoke and the explosions, I must have missed them!
> Hence the volume of your
> nonsense and dishonesty. As always, please feel free to explain
rationally why
> what I have written is 'piss'; remember, you will need evidence.
The evidence is all around you. If you don't see it now, me pointing
it out would be a waste of my time.
Paul, when you want to talk about audio technology, please post
again! ;-)
Gene Lyle
On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:47:05 GMT, "Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net>
wrote:
>
>But, being a "concerned citizen" you will do your part anyway! ;-)
Sure. Yhat's what citizenship is al about, you dunce!
>
>I pretty well gave up publishing on paper about 20 years ago.
Publishing what? References, please.
Looks
>like Atkinson is trying to do the same right now! ;-)
Looks like he's doing OK to me.
>
>
>No, I think that is an insult to all the great fourth-rate engineers
>in the world. I don't know what "rate" I am,
I think the rest of us do.
but IMO its someplace
>down around "Barely an engineer".
You're too generous!
IOW, about 100,000 times the
>engineer that you could pretend to be, were you so inclined and
>ambitious. ;-)
FYI, I have sbsolutely no inclination nor ambition to be an
"engineer." Sorry.
>
>I do have entirely too much fun at the expense of a great list of
>stuffed shirts and poseurs, don't I? ;-)
Ditto for us! ;-)
>
>> But, yes, his technical arguments are
>> also often pathetically weak and uninformed, as been apparent
>often
>> when he bumps up against someone with greater skills and
>knowledge.
>
>Really? How would you know?
Already explained this to you. Read it again.
>
>
>Just for grins, please find a recent technical comment from GlenZ
>that included any kind of formal support. ;-)
Why? Your ball, your court.
>
>In short, if somebody starts talking technical, your eyes roll right
>up into your forehead. ;-(
Not quite.
>
>When awakened, you immediately grant an opinion about who has made
>the better technical presentation. ;-)
I can do this in my sleep when it comes to your postings, Arnold. It's
that easy.
>
>
>> >Practicing "Real Engineers" generally have no time for
>food-fights like RAO.
>
>> They do when their credibility is called into question by a
>nothing
>> dweeb with no track record of even mediocre success in audio.
>
>Let's talk about you calling my credibility into question when your
>track record of sucess in audio is microscopic, even when compared
>to mine. Let's not!
Just a reminder, Arnold: This is about you, not me.
>
>I think that one need not to get down on his knees in front of an
>open zipper to expose my frailties. I think that rather, you
>actually enjoy that postion for whatever reason. Hey, whatever winds
>your clock! I guess that if one is into that sort of thing, it works
>better for you if John Atkinson praises the guy with the open zipper
>before you do your "stuff". ;-)
More of the peinis-related stuff, eh Arnold. Got a little problem in
that area, old chap? ;-)
>
>
>>One of his obvious failings, of course, is that he does not "argue
>constructively." Not even close.
>> But I'll admit it is entertaining to see him consistently trashed
>for his pathetic efforts. Good show.
>
>IMO, the better show is just watching you be you! ;-)
Thank you. Glad you're enjoying it. I'm finding it enjoyable, too.
>
>Have a great day, and I hope that you are able to use what you
>demonstrate so well on RAO to further your academic career.
>
>I've definitely seen that work for others. ;-(
You might want to clarify this for me. What "academic career" are you
talking about? Do you have me confused with someone else?
You have a great day, too, Arnold. By the way, do you do all this work
out of your garage or your basement or from your luxury office suite
in the massive "Kruger Building," headquarters for your many
successful audio enterprises? Just curious.
Gene Lyle
Glenn Zelniker
> This would appear to be an intentional removal of relevant evidence.
> My version of the story is that I had an interchange with Glenn over
> on RAHE where he attempted to correct a technical error I made. I
> agreed with his correction, but unfortunately he also made a
> technical error in his correction. I saw it, but did not want to
> embarass him. But, somebody else also saw it and corrected him.
> Shortly thereafter he started ranting on RAO with the following:
>
> http://x22.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=554995387
>
Arny has completely lost it and is grasping at straws. If anyone really
cares, they can revisit the original posts and see that Arny confused
the concepts of probability density and power spectral density. This
was an egregious technical error, one that I felt needed correction. I
attempted to set the record straight, erring in the process, myself. I
referred to PDF as probability distribution function, not probability
density function. Certainly an error that could be construed as
conceptual, but in reality I know the difference quite well (references
available upon request).
It's obvious to anyone that Arny's usage of the phrase "didn't want to
embarass him" is pure bullshit. This isn't in his wetware. The simple
fact is he didn't catch the error. And to compare his error to my error
is crazy, anyway. Furthermore, he's now trying to make it look like
this was my motive for attacking him. This isn't going to work, Arny.
Stay on topic.
GZ
Phil
"Arny Krüger" wrote:
But you are not proving the analysis incorrect therefore this
"simple-minded analysis" is true and your implication means... nothing.
>
>
> > It is doubly hurtful that you blame your detractors for actions
> that in
> > truth you caused.
>
> I did not cause Glenn to start a war with me. I was perfectly happy
> to converse with him in an ordinary way, as I had just previously
> done on RAHE, and had Glenn continued to make reasonable posts, I
> would have continued to do that indefinately
Immaterial as usual. Question, did your action cause the outburst?
Answer: from a review of the post it did. Your are above making claims
that you are not backing up. The complete post is evidence to the
contrary. If you don't show evidence, you are just blowing smoke.
>
>
>
> >This can hardly be call honest debate technique.
>
> That sentence could hardly be called something that was written with
> even a modicum of care or consideration. Anybody ever tell you about
> being consistent with tenses in a sentence?
Again side stepping the issue.
>
>
> > Also in an academic paper if you hid information the counter your
> base
> > contention this would be consider academic misconduct.
>
> Straw man. I did not hide any information. I included it in my
> document via a hyperlink.
Again doesn't count and I gave you the reason why as you'll see below.
>
>
> Now, is intentional fabrication of straw man arguments conformance
> to a good standard for intellectual honesty?
>
> In your world, seemingly it is! ;-(
No straw man since you edit out the remain of the post that explain the
reasoning. let us review:
--------------------------
Also in an academic paper if you hid information that contradicts your
base
contention this would be consider academic misconduct. The assumption is
that the writer is trying to hide the fact from the not careful
reviewer, just as you were trying to hid the fact from the not careful
reader. It is consider unacceptable technique and is ground for
rejection of an academic paper, as well as a removal from a Ph.D.
program.
To put it simple, you don't lie or misled. You put everything out front.
You don't leave it out and you don't hide it.
-------------------------------------
Your brought up the academic convention. In academia the requirements of
technique are far higher than for normal discussion. There can not be
even the slightest appearance of impropriety.
Let's make this simple:
1. You are not arguing that you didn't misled only that you did it
properly by hiding it in a hyper link which by the way was broken on my
reader and for many readers, if they older usenet readers, wouldn't work
2. It is my contention that properly done or not the purpose of the post
was to misled.
3. Misleading is to imply a bad action, Glenn Z's outburst was caused by
persons you dislike, but the evidence shows that it was you, Arny, who
caused the outburst.
4. The whining about technicalities seem to be another attempt by you to
side step the real issue that you posted a misleading post for the
purpose .... good question I don't know why you did this, ego, to pick
on your "enemies" who knows, but it is transparently wrong.
Phil
George M. Middius
> >Why are you so deeply obsesed with human bodily waste?
> Something to do with the volumes of it I produce every day! ;-)
Humor? A bulimia ritual? It's anyone's guess.
> Oh, well if you guys would quit pissing and defecating in public,
> I'd stop talking about it! ;-)
This is probably another example of utter concreteness of
the cyborg's wetware. Maybe one of our shrinks can correct
me on this if I'm wrong, but isn't the inability to think
figuratively a symptom of schizophrenia?
> You have hardly annihilated my arguements because they continue to
> grow and proliferate. You had a little fun, but hey, whatever. You
> now seem to be afraid to do anything but blow smoke and reminisce
> about the good old days when you had a cat or a chicken leg to stand
> on.
That turd reeks pungently on its own. Arnii, you are
something else! ;-)
> Frindle is IMO quite cool. JJ obviously knows his stuff, but his
> track record for "cool" is pretty spotty. Thusfar you have been just
> a bombastic, posturing waste of my time. Maybe you could improve,
> perhaps by thinking about 10% as deeply and clearly as Frindle does.
> Does Frindle do any work for you?
No gloss could amplify the sheer snottiness of this bit.
> However, if you would like to take exception to some of my technical
> comments, or try to duplicate a tiny part of my track record for
> helping people in trouble, please be my guest.
The limitlessly distending 'borg ego threatens to engulf
cyberspace.
> > I believe that you know this, and that it deeply upsets you. You know that you
> > are hopelessly outclassed in argument and knowledge, and I suspect you can't
> > even *understand* much of what is being said to you.
> I wish that were true. It's sort of like the knowing the difference
> between good and evil. Take Shain. He seems to be an absolute audio
> technology know-nothing. You make him very happy. I'm in favor of
> happy. Happy is good. I read your stuff and realize what a posturing
> fool you are and how throughly you have deceived yourself about your
> personal magnificence. This makes me sad. Sad is bad.
Paul, I think you had him pegged perfectly. This level of
"thinking" is absolutely commensurate with the
finger-painting level of Kroogles' "engineering" skill.
Arnii, your ability to deny what is obvious to every sane
human on RAO never ceases to astonish me. It almost
surpasses your proficiency at uninhibited, spontaneous
lying. Keep up the sad work!
[This post reformatted by the Resistance, laboring
tirelessly to de-Kroogerize Usenet]
George M. Middius
jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist
Paul Bamborough <pa...@bamborough.com> wrote:
>Arny Krüger wrote ...
>Complete and utter nonsense, obfuscation, dissimulation, low-grade
>logic-chopping and deliberate obtuseness. Or, to put it another way, the best
>that poor inadequate Mr. Krüger can do.
Paul, have you been watching his discussion with the ingrate philistine
'tkrieger', who insists that there is interpolation in ADC's, that
all antiimaging filters are some truncated or windowed sinc function, and
that an antiimaging filter is some kind of interpolator, not something
that simply removes out of band components?
If not, you may find another side to this admittedly annoying individual.
jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist
Bruce J. Richman <bjri...@aol.com> wrote:
>jj wrote:
>>things like "Supercallousmeanandnastyrightwinglegislation", for instance.
>jj - this sounds like something Mark Russell might do in one of his PBS
>concerts. Is it? Or possibly an invention of the Capital Steps, the
>Washington,D.C. satirical group?
Capitol Steps, from "A whole Newt World". The best track, though,
is "The Fondler", with apologies to Dion DiMucci. You can guess
the target, I bet.
>By coincidence, I was listening to day to 3 satirists from yesteryear - Allan
>Sherman (Hello Muddah, Hello Faddah - and other ditties),
Ah, yes, my favorite is "Peter and the Commissar". I only have it on
ancient cassette, though, I am almost afraid to play it.
>Tom Lehrer (The Old
>Dope Peddler, Lobachevsky, and my favorite, the Masochism Tango),
Yep. Got all of his stuff both on vinyl and CD, except for the
missing 10" vinyl that somebody scarfed from me :-( My favorite
is "Little Johnny Jones", it might have to do with crouching in
the hallway of the grade school as a little kid while the PA
droned on "do not open your eyes, do not stare at the bright
flash".
>and Kinky
>Friedman & the Texas Jewboys (yes - that's the real name of the group -
>although I think Kinky still records when he's not writing novels - author of
>Something's Wrong with The Beaver and other ditties).
Someone I've heard of, and who I need to go home and listen to. ;-)
Btw, you ever run into the Austin Lounge Lizards? Also what you might
call "equal opportunity lampooners".
jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist
Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
><viz...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
>> In short, JJ, Glenn had stated repeatedly that dithering
>> should be employed routinely in all situations. In the few and
>rare
>> instances where its benefits might not be immediately apparent, it
>> does no harm at worst, and might provide some benefit at best.
>> Mr. Krueger has argued strenuously that there are instances
>> where dithering is not necessary and should not be done, and that
>Mr.
>> Zelnicker is wrong to insist that dithering should be applied
>> regardless of situation.
>>
>> I believe that sums it up.
>I surely hope that Glenn corrects you about this. If this is
>ACTUALLY his position, I've already won! ;-)
How's that?
You mean he's holding the right position, then? Where does that,
then, place yours?
Stereophi...@compuserve.com
"Arny Krüger" <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
> I pretty well gave up publishing on paper about 20 years ago. Looks
> like Atkinson is trying to do the same right now! ;-)
Please explain what you mean by this.
> I think that one need not to get down on his knees in front of an
> open zipper to expose my frailties...I guess that if one is into that sort
> of thing, it works better for you if John Atkinson praises the guy with
> the open zipper before you do your "stuff". ;-)
I grow tired of your continuing to drag me into your fantasy life Mr.
Krüger. But more importantly, perhaps you should start thinking about the
effect of you making statements like the one above in public. Or your
continued references on this newsgroup to defecation. You have stated on a
number of occasions that one of your sources of income is from working as a
consultant on audio matters for some quite major companies. I do not imagine
if any of your clients read what you post in this newgroup that they would
want to continue to be associated with you.
I respectfully suggest that you take more care regarding the tone and
language you use in your postings. -- John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
jj, curmudgeon and tiring philalethist
Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>"Glenn Zelniker" <gle...@z-sys.com> wrote in message
>news:3855A609...@z-sys.com...
>> You are a coward and a liar of the worst order.
>Nahh, just mediocre.
Glenn, I have to support this. In the netnews scheme of things,
he's a piker.
Glenn Zelniker
> In article <0op54.4495$kX4....@news.rdc2.mi.home.com>,
> Arny Krüger <ar...@flash.net> wrote:
>
> ><viz...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
> >> In short, JJ, Glenn had stated repeatedly that dithering
> >> should be employed routinely in all situations. In the few and
> >rare
> >> instances where its benefits might not be immediately apparent, it
> >> does no harm at worst, and might provide some benefit at best.
>
> >> Mr. Krueger has argued strenuously that there are instances
> >> where dithering is not necessary and should not be done, and that
> >Mr.
> >> Zelnicker is wrong to insist that dithering should be applied
> >> regardless of situation.
> >>
> >> I believe that sums it up.
>
> >I surely hope that Glenn corrects you about this. If this is
> >ACTUALLY his position, I've already won! ;-)
>
> How's that?
>
> You mean he's holding the right position, then? Where does that,
> then, place yours?
Actually, my stated position was even milder! I wanted to give Kruger nothing
controversial to latch on to. Here is the totality of my REPEATEDLY stated
position:
Digital fades to digital silence of digital source material are audible in quiet
mastering rooms with good equipment and experienced mastering engineers. I never
said anything beyond this. You can check me on it.
Arny has even given me his smug "where's the beef, then ;-)" retort as if to
indicate agreement. He then attacked me yesterday for making false claims about
dither.
I will go one step further than what I said before and indicate that I'm also in
agreement with Ed's position above. I still defy Kruger to prove me wrong.
Glenn Z