Krell FPB-200 or 300?
A. Tang
>
> John Maio wrote:
> >
> > After many years, I'm building an all-Krell system. I have the
> > KAV-300cd and KRC-3 preamplifier connected with Purist Audio Design
> > Colossus cables driving an Aragon 4004 and Apogee Caliper Reference
> > speakers. I understand that the KRC-3 and the new FPB series of
> > amplifiers make a good match - especially when using with balanced
> > interconnects.
> >
> > The question in my mind is *which* Krell amplifier I would be happier
> > with over the long run in this system, replacing the Aragon. Does the
> > FPB-200 sound musically like the FPB-300 or does the extra $$$ between
> > the two take me closer to audio heaven with the FPB-300?
> >
> > I haven't auditioned either amplifier yet and won't decide until I do,
> > but I would certainly welcome the observations of people in this
> > group.
> >
> > John Maio
> >
> > jm...@ibm.net
>
Hi John,
I highly recommend either the FPB200 or the FPB300 for your Apogee
system. The Krell FPB200 is still the best sounding (high power )
solid state amplifier that I have ever heard.
It combines the best virtues of the State of the Art Tube and
solid state sound in one box. (I have not
heard the FPB300 though ).
There are of course several worthy alternatives, namely :
1) Bryston 7BST monoblocks - unbelievable value for money;
very sweet and musical treble; not as detailed nor as transparent
as the FPB200 though.
2) Mark Levinson 333 : State of the Art Solid State sound;exhibits
a drier and smaller soundstage than the Krell; Excellent
bass.
3)Spectral DMA180 : Fantastic soundstaging and imaging, period.
Not particularly detailed or transparent though; may not work
with the Caliper
4) Conrad Johnson Premier 8A - The best there is, except that
it cannot drive low impedance loads like yours and mine ( Thiel
CS7)
Product to avoid :
Pass Lab Aleph 1.2 monoblock : Didn't sound anything close
to what Stereophile raved about; Similar in sound to the new Adcom
5802, except that it costs $12500 more for the designer label
Still, there is nothing better than a home trial, that is if you
can find a willing dealer nearby.
Regards,
A. Tang
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
A. Tang wrote:
>
> >
> > John Maio wrote:
> > >
> > > After many years, I'm building an all-Krell system. I have the
> > > KAV-300cd and KRC-3 preamplifier connected with Purist Audio Design
> > > Colossus cables driving an Aragon 4004 and Apogee Caliper Reference
> > > speakers. I understand that the KRC-3 and the new FPB series of
> > > amplifiers make a good match - especially when using with balanced
> > > interconnects.
> > >
> > > The question in my mind is *which* Krell amplifier I would be happier
> > > with over the long run in this system, replacing the Aragon. Does the
> > > FPB-200 sound musically like the FPB-300 or does the extra $$$ between
> > > the two take me closer to audio heaven with the FPB-300?
> > >
> > > I haven't auditioned either amplifier yet and won't decide until I do,
> > > but I would certainly welcome the observations of people in this
> > > group.
> > >
> > > John Maio
> > >
> > > jm...@ibm.net
> >
> Hi John,
> I highly recommend either the FPB200 or the FPB300 for your Apogee
> system. The Krell FPB200 is still the best sounding (high power )
> solid state amplifier that I have ever heard.
Not even close
> It combines the best virtues of the State of the Art Tube and
> solid state sound in one box. (I have not
> heard the FPB300 though ).
Not even close.
> There are of course several worthy alternatives, namely :
> 1) Bryston 7BST monoblocks - unbelievable value for money;
> very sweet and musical treble; not as detailed nor as transparent
> as the FPB200 though.
...but Bryston is more reliable than Krell
> 2) Mark Levinson 333 : State of the Art Solid State sound;exhibits
> a drier and smaller soundstage than the Krell; Excellent
> bass.
Bass is OK, Krell bass is better, no transparency at all
> 3)Spectral DMA180 : Fantastic soundstaging and imaging, period.
> Not particularly detailed or transparent though; may not work
> with the Caliper
You are insane. This is probably the MOST detailed amp on the market!
It will easily drive the Apogees
> 4) Conrad Johnson Premier 8A - The best there is, except that
> it cannot drive low impedance loads like yours and mine ( Thiel
> CS7)
It can't drive most speakers - so how can it be the best?
> Product to avoid :
> Pass Lab Aleph 1.2 monoblock : Didn't sound anything close
> to what Stereophile raved about; Similar in sound to the new Adcom
> 5802, except that it costs $12500 more for the designer label
You need your hearing examined. The Spectral and the PASS are light
years beyond these other amps in sound quality. Krells are bright and
gritty - and two dimensional by comparison. Levinson is about as
transparent as a dirty window on a cloudy day. Conrad Johnson has bass
like a bear slapping a dead fish, and no top end at all. Brystons are
competent amps - good bass, a little grainy up top, nice dynamics,
average image & soundstage.
Zip
Johnny Y Boey
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
> You need your hearing examined. The Spectral and the PASS are light
> years beyond these other amps in sound quality. Krells are bright and
> gritty - and two dimensional by comparison.
Nope they are not at all. The FPB200 and KSA100S I have are not bright nor
gritty. Anyone who's ever heard my system will know how deep the soundstage they
can throw. And they are light-years ahead of the Pass Aleph 3 I got rid of for
cheap.
JB
Paul Malik
Hi Zip,
How does the Parasound HCA-2200II compare to Pass and Spectral gear?
Paul Malik
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Great amp for the money - reasonably approaches them in general terms,
but is not as detailed, slightly grainier, not as 3-dimensional &
doesn't stage as well. It is a competitive amp with Bryston 4B,
Sunfire, Lightstar, and it just creams the Aragon and the McCormack.
Zip
James A. Dirmeyer
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote in message
<6cphg6$k...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
>> Hi John,
>> I highly recommend either the FPB200 or the FPB300 for your Apogee
>> system. The Krell FPB200 is still the best sounding (high power )
>> solid state amplifier that I have ever heard.
>
>Not even close
>
Damn Zip, you can evaluate the sounds other people hear? Man, stay out of
my head.
>> 4) Conrad Johnson Premier 8A - The best there is, except that
>> it cannot drive low impedance loads like yours and mine ( Thiel
>> CS7)
>
>It can't drive most speakers - so how can it be the best?
>
That has nothing to do with whether it's the best or not. Most people can't
afford a Meridian or Theta or whatever CD player some audio junky considers
the best but that doesn't make it any less in quality.
Paul Malik
I agree with you, Zip. I have A/B'd my '2200II to the Bryston 4BST -
sound quality is comparable, but the '2200 has much more punch (and at 1/2 the
price) .... and comparing the Aragon 8008BB/ST, I found the Aragon had similar
punch to the '2200, but the sound was chalky and shrill - vocals sounded like
the performer(s) were screaming at me!
Paul Malik
Eza and Clark Gadson
Gotta say the Zipster is right on just about every point except for Krell
reliability. It is extremely well built gear and very reliable, I can't
imagine that any brand is better in that department. As for sound quality,
the FPB series are very good, but leave a lot to be desired for the size
dollar that they demand. These are mega-buck amps and Stereophile be
damned, they are not even in the same league as the big buck Spectrals. Go
with the DMA-150 or 180, sell your KRC-3 and get a DMC-20, you'll be
happier and probably spend less money.
Good Luck
Eza
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) <z...@sunshinestereo.com> wrote in
article <6cphg6$k...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
> A. Tang wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > John Maio wrote:
> > > >
> > > > After many years, I'm building an all-Krell system. I have the
> > > > KAV-300cd and KRC-3 preamplifier connected with Purist Audio Design
> > > > Colossus cables driving an Aragon 4004 and Apogee Caliper Reference
> > > > speakers. I understand that the KRC-3 and the new FPB series of
> > > > amplifiers make a good match - especially when using with balanced
> > > > interconnects.
> > > >
> > > > The question in my mind is *which* Krell amplifier I would be
happier
> > > > with over the long run in this system, replacing the Aragon. Does
the
> > > > FPB-200 sound musically like the FPB-300 or does the extra $$$
between
> > > > the two take me closer to audio heaven with the FPB-300?
> > > >
> > > > I haven't auditioned either amplifier yet and won't decide until I
do,
> > > > but I would certainly welcome the observations of people in this
> > > > group.
> > > >
> > > > John Maio
> > > >
> > > > jm...@ibm.net
> > >
> > Hi John,
> > I highly recommend either the FPB200 or the FPB300 for your Apogee
> > system. The Krell FPB200 is still the best sounding (high power )
> > solid state amplifier that I have ever heard.
>
> Not even close
>
> > It combines the best virtues of the State of the Art Tube and
> > solid state sound in one box. (I have not
> > heard the FPB300 though ).
>
> Not even close.
>
> > There are of course several worthy alternatives, namely :
> > 1) Bryston 7BST monoblocks - unbelievable value for money;
> > very sweet and musical treble; not as detailed nor as transparent
> > as the FPB200 though.
>
> ...but Bryston is more reliable than Krell
>
> > 2) Mark Levinson 333 : State of the Art Solid State sound;exhibits
> > a drier and smaller soundstage than the Krell; Excellent
> > bass.
>
> Bass is OK, Krell bass is better, no transparency at all
>
> > 3)Spectral DMA180 : Fantastic soundstaging and imaging, period.
> > Not particularly detailed or transparent though; may not work
> > with the Caliper
>
> You are insane. This is probably the MOST detailed amp on the market!
> It will easily drive the Apogees
>
> > 4) Conrad Johnson Premier 8A - The best there is, except that
> > it cannot drive low impedance loads like yours and mine ( Thiel
> > CS7)
>
> It can't drive most speakers - so how can it be the best?
>
> > Product to avoid :
> > Pass Lab Aleph 1.2 monoblock : Didn't sound anything close
> > to what Stereophile raved about; Similar in sound to the new Adcom
> > 5802, except that it costs $12500 more for the designer label
>
> You need your hearing examined. The Spectral and the PASS are light
> years beyond these other amps in sound quality. Krells are bright and
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Eza and Clark Gadson wrote:
>
> Gotta say the Zipster is right on just about every point except for Krell
> reliability. It is extremely well built gear and very reliable, I can't
> imagine that any brand is better in that department.
PASS Labs - I have hadZERO amoplifier failures in customers hands in
three years out of over 100 amplifiers sold. I had one amp go on me - I
left the speaker cable shorted over night - my fault!
The Krell amplifiers are not close to that record. At sound Advice they
had about a 9% return rate - mostly with noisy transformers in amps and
non-locking transports and DACs. The noisy Krell amps are famous &
there have been many posts detailing this on r.a.h-e.
> As for sound quality,
> the FPB series are very good, but leave a lot to be desired for the size
> dollar that they demand. These are mega-buck amps and Stereophile be
> damned, they are not even in the same league as the big buck Spectrals. Go
> with the DMA-150 or 180, sell your KRC-3 and get a DMC-20, you'll be
> happier and probably spend less money.
I agree there.
Zip
Ilya Limanov
Dear Tang,
A. Tang wrote:
> Hi John,
> I highly recommend either the FPB200 or the FPB300 for your Apogee
> system. The Krell FPB200 is still the best sounding (high power )
> solid state amplifier that I have ever heard.
> It combines the best virtues of the State of the Art Tube and
> solid state sound in one box. (I have not
> heard the FPB300 though ).
>
> There are of course several worthy alternatives, namely :
> 1) Bryston 7BST monoblocks - unbelievable value for money;
> very sweet and musical treble; not as detailed nor as transparent
> as the FPB200 though.
>
> 2) Mark Levinson 333 : State of the Art Solid State sound;exhibits
> a drier and smaller soundstage than the Krell; Excellent
> bass.
>
> 3)Spectral DMA180 : Fantastic soundstaging and imaging, period.
> Not particularly detailed or transparent though; may not work
> with the Caliper
WHAT??? How do you figure? If anything, the DMA180 IS DETAILED! Maybe too
much so for some folks. I have hard time naming any amp that is more
detailed. And why would it not work with the Caliper? I'm puzzled....
Ilya
> 4) Conrad Johnson Premier 8A - The best there is, except that
> it cannot drive low impedance loads like yours and mine ( Thiel
> CS7)
> Product to avoid :
> Pass Lab Aleph 1.2 monoblock : Didn't sound anything close
> to what Stereophile raved about; Similar in sound to the new Adcom
> 5802, except that it costs $12500 more for the designer label
>
> Still, there is nothing better than a home trial, that is if you
> can find a willing dealer nearby.
>
> Regards,
> A. Tang
--
Vodka, tractors and rock'n roll !
David Colver
I have heard both the FPB200 and the FPB300 and found the difference quite
audible, even though I have the prejudice that the differences between
competent amplifiers matter little. The 200 is great; the 300 is better.
I have yet to hear a 600.
In article <34F042...@bit-net.com>, at...@bit-net.com (A. Tang) wrote:
> Article: 145019 of rec.audio.opinion
> Path: cix.compulink.co.uk!peernews.cix.co.uk!peernews.ftech.net!news-spu
> r1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.51.
> 120.2!news.bit-net.com!not-for-mail
> From: "A. Tang" <at...@bit-net.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
> Subject: Re: Krell FPB-200 or 300?
> Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 10:23:41 -0500
> Organization: BIT-NET
> Lines: 57
> Message-ID: <34F042...@bit-net.com>
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> >
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>
> >
> > John Maio wrote:
> > >
> > > After many years, I'm building an all-Krell system. I have the
> > > KAV-300cd and KRC-3 preamplifier connected with Purist Audio Design
> > > Colossus cables driving an Aragon 4004 and Apogee Caliper Reference
> > > speakers. I understand that the KRC-3 and the new FPB series of
> > > amplifiers make a good match - especially when using with balanced
> > > interconnects.
> > >
> > > The question in my mind is *which* Krell amplifier I would be happie
> r
> > > with over the long run in this system, replacing the Aragon. Does th
> e
> > > FPB-200 sound musically like the FPB-300 or does the extra $$$ betwe
> en
> > > the two take me closer to audio heaven with the FPB-300?
> > >
> > > I haven't auditioned either amplifier yet and won't decide until I d
> o,
> > > but I would certainly welcome the observations of people in this
> > > group.
> > >
> > > John Maio
> > >
> > > jm...@ibm.net
> >
> Hi John,
> I highly recommend either the FPB200 or the FPB300 for your Apogee
> system. The Krell FPB200 is still the best sounding (high power )
> solid state amplifier that I have ever heard.
> It combines the best virtues of the State of the Art Tube and
> solid state sound in one box. (I have not
> heard the FPB300 though ).
>
> There are of course several worthy alternatives, namely :
> 1) Bryston 7BST monoblocks - unbelievable value for money;
> very sweet and musical treble; not as detailed nor as transparent
> as the FPB200 though.
>
> 2) Mark Levinson 333 : State of the Art Solid State sound;exhibits
> a drier and smaller soundstage than the Krell; Excellent
> bass.
>
> 3)Spectral DMA180 : Fantastic soundstaging and imaging, period.
> Not particularly detailed or transparent though; may not work
> with the Caliper
David erow
Zip, speaking of noisy transformers in Krell amps, what can Krell do to correct
it? And does the noise affect sound quality? I ask because my 300i
integrated's transformer is pretty noisy. Buzzes all the time. But I didn't
figure it was really hurting anything??? Advice please...
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
David erow wrote:
>
> Zip, speaking of noisy transformers in Krell amps, what can Krell do to correct
> it?
This is something that has plagued them for a long time. As I am not an
engineer, I think you'd have to take that up with them - or ask some of
the engineers on the group like Stu Pinkerton or Arnie Kreuger or JJ.
> And does the noise affect sound quality?
I can't answer this, but if I can hear an amp during the quiet passages
of some Debussy or Dead, it'd drive me up the wall.
I ask because my 300i
> integrated's transformer is pretty noisy. Buzzes all the time. But I didn't
> figure it was really hurting anything??? Advice please...
Ask one of the EE's here.
Zip
--
Sunshine Stereo, Inc
Tel: 305-757-9358 Fax: 305-757-1367
9535 Biscayne Blvd.
Miami Shores, FL 33138
PASS Labs Carver Lightstar CODA Jadis Audible Illusions
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Chiro Benz Micro Gallo Acoustics Dunlavy Audio NEAR NHT
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Rega Cleanlines by Vans Evers ENTECH by Monster Cable ESP
And a whole lot more :-)
Steve & Gigi want you to ENJOY THE MUSIC!
DO NOT USE COMPUSERVE
THEY RIPPED US OFF FOR TWO YEARS SERVICE
They told us to take a hike
NEVER USE COMPUSERVE
Francesco Donnarumma
On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:26:02 -0500, "Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo
Inc.)" <z...@sunshinestereo.com> wrote:
Please, tell me, do you sell any Krell in your shop??
Francesco
francesco...@proselin.com
(no pro x e-mail)
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
No sir. I sell PASS Labs. Before I started Sunshine, I was running the
high end program at Sound Advice, a 20 store chain in Florida. While I
was there I brought in Krell, so I had very extensive experience with
their products. These days, as a competitor of Krell, I still maintain
knowlege of their products by ocassionally wandering into some of the
Sound Advice stores, where I have several close friends.
Jim Murphy
I must be lucky because I own a FPB 300, an FPB 200 a KAV 500 and a 300i and
I do not have a noisy transformer in any of them. I suggest that you can
get Krell or your dealer to help with the problem.
Jim "Murf" Murphy
David erow wrote in message
<19980226041...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>Zip, speaking of noisy transformers in Krell amps, what can Krell do to
correct
>it? And does the noise affect sound quality? I ask because my 300i
DWest1023
>Zip, speaking of noisy transformers in Krell amps, what can Krell do to
>it? And does the noise affect sound quality? I ask because my 300i<BR>
>integrated's transformer is pretty noisy. Buzzes all the time.
Strange My 300I is dead silent.
Don
(Formerly, HO...@HIS.COM)
Johnny Y Boey
David erow wrote:
> Zip, speaking of noisy transformers in Krell amps, what can Krell do to correct
> it? And does the noise affect sound quality? I ask because my 300i
> integrated's transformer is pretty noisy. Buzzes all the time. But I didn't
> figure it was really hurting anything???
The KAV300i has a tiny transformer (relatively). It is supposed to be dead silent,
unless maybe if you stick your ear to the chassis. Definitely something wrong. I
have seen over 20 different KAV300i in operation and none of them is noisy.
JB
Andre T. Yew
davi...@aol.com (David erow) writes:
>Zip, speaking of noisy transformers in Krell amps, what can Krell do to correct
>it? And does the noise affect sound quality? I ask because my 300i
>integrated's transformer is pretty noisy. Buzzes all the time. But I didn't
>figure it was really hurting anything??? Advice please...
Toroid xformer buzz (assuming the Krells use toroids) is caused by DC offset
in the wall supply. DC offsets can be caused by motors, such as fridges
and hairdryers, on the same power distribution system. You don't need much
to cause a buzz. My Classe amp's power xformer will buzz various times of
the day, depending on what my neighbors are doing. You can build filters
to stop this:
Apparently, balanced power can solve this, too, except now you have to worry
about the balanced power xformer itself buzzing.
--Andre
--
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