Who you gonna believe?

[ScottW]

I believe the people who live in it.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1155253573959028737

ScottW

[Art Sackman]

It’s pretty bad. But I don’t blam Cummmngs. He’s only a Congressman. He’s not in charge of anything. It’s a rare case when a Congressman can have a major impact on a city. The one case i can think if is AOC vs Amazon but that kind of rare.

Cummings is a nonentity. Didn’t do anything to help, but didn’t cause harm either.

[ScottW]

On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 12:35:01 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
> It’s pretty bad. But I don’t blam Cummmngs. He’s only a Congressman. He’s not in charge of anything. It’s a rare case when a Congressman can have a major impact on a city. The one case i can think if is AOC vs Amazon but that kind of rare.
>
> Cummings is a nonentity. Didn’t do anything to help, but didn’t cause harm either.

Doing nothing in the face of what was happening from a guy in his position causes harm.

ScottW

[Art Sackman]

He’s not in a position to solve Baltimore’s problems. It’s not the position of Congress. It’s not the position of the Federal government. It’s a state and local issue to be resolved by the people closest to the city. The mayor, the Council, the governor. And cooperation but not less responsibility by the Stste legislature.


As a Conservative, you do believe in States rights, don’t you?

If it’s Congress’ problem, the it is also the responsibility of Congress to solve all the problems of every other American city. Congress has other things to do than to meddle in such local affairs.

However, having said that, it is possible that a Congressman can have an impact good or bad, here and there on a local issue. Such as AOC chasing out Amazon. But it was due to her loudmouth bully pulpit, not by any proposed act of Congress.

[ScottW]

On Sunday, July 28, 2019 at 5:47:05 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
> He’s not in a position to solve Baltimore’s problems. It’s not the position of Congress. It’s not the position of the Federal government. It’s a state and local issue to be resolved by the people closest to the city. The mayor, the Council, the governor. And cooperation but not less responsibility by the Stste legislature.

Trump and republicans created Opportunity Zones to try and reverse the trend of decay and job loss in urban areas.

Congress people used to bring federal dollars back to their districts in many forms via earmarks and general pork spending. I've read many argue to bring back earmarks as they provided the grease to get congress to act. Bribe them and they will vote. It's a pretty sad testament to politicians.

But there are many opportunities to bring federal assistance to a district. Obama's infrastructure stimulus was desperately looking for "shovel ready" projects. Sounds like they could have easily found use of some bulldozers and dump trucks.

I don't generally agree with this kind of spending particularly in light of a deficit but Cummings has been around long enough to have done something over the years.

ScottW

[Art Sackman]

The problems of Baltimore are of local origin. Neglect, progressive ideology over practical actions, corruption, politically correct attempts to subvert effective and necessary law enforcement, State funding shortfalls, excessive real estate taxes, legendary high heroin usage, etc. a couple of Federaly funded jonstruction projects won’t make a difference and don’t address that very real
Problems of Baltimore.

There already has been a massive project and it didn’t do shit to help the city, other than demolish the blight in about a 25 square block area and replace it with gentrification. I’m talking about the Johns Hopkins redevelopment project. I know a lot about it. I worked on it. It didn’t solve the problems of the displaced residents. It just displaced them and spread the problems to other areas.

Honestly, you don’t know much about this area and you should stop arguing about a reality you are not too familiar with.

[Art Sackman]

Cummings was a strong proponent of the east west Re line light rail project.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/bs-mtblog-2009-06-cummings_stay_course_on_red_li-story.html?outputType=amp

https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-ci-maglev-20150605-story,amp.html

It was planned, designed, but never built, a decision made by our governor, who did not want to commit the state funding portion. Instead, Hogan went for the purple line in the DC suburbs.

It was a good project, but funds are limited and even if it were built it would have been a but a grain of sand in going towards solving Baltimore’s problems.

Not a Cummings fan but I’ll stand up against unfair and wrongful attempts to blame him for the mess that Baltimore is in. Of all the corrupt and inept Democrat scoundrels infesting Baltimore, Cummings is not one of them

[ScottW]

Hey, Arny...it's called conversing.
I'm not arguing about the reality. Simply pointing out that the feds often play a role in redevelopment with grants etc. I suspect there was some federal money in that John Hopkins public and privately funded project.

I don't disagree that most cities redevelopment amounts to a displace and replace the non-working resident population. Sadly, many efforts to employ the chronically unemployed have demonstrated that many of these people are really unemployable. No ability to show up on time ready to work.
It becomes a chronic generational issue....kids with parents who don't work follow in their footsteps. Breaking that cycle is tough.

ScottW

[Art Sackman]

My take is that the problems are mainly policing and schools. Piling up bricks isn’t going to solve Baltimore

I don’t know what can be done with the schools but the police have to get more procative and restore order and civility.

You remember that former mayor, during the riots she ordered police to stand down to give the neighborhood troublemakers a safe space to vent their anger through violent destruction.

[ScottW]

On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 10:22:14 AM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
> My take is that the problems are mainly policing

Policing is definitely the first step. Without order...nothing good can be done.

> and schools.

Schools without appropriate discipline become peer pressure centers where good kids are taken down by their numerous peers to the lowest common denominator.
Progressive educational policies have really disabled schools ability to provide safe havens for kids free of bullying and abuse.
Public schools in some of these inner cities are doing more to sustain the cycle than break it.
Parents who want to give their kids a better life need school choice.

ScottW

[MiNe109]

Baltimore city schools are chronically underfunded. Discipline can't
make up for unheated rooms in the winter.

[Art Sackman]

Utter nonsense!

The per pupil cost in Baltimore ranked 5th in 2018 and 3rd in 2019 among the 100 largest IS cities


https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2019/05/21/baltimore-city-third-in-u-s-for-per-pupil-spending.html

https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2018/05/21/five-maryland-school-districts-rank-among-top-10.html

Baltimore has the worst schools in Maryland and has the second highest per pupil cost in Maryland



https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2018/05/21/five-maryland-school-districts-rank-among-top-10.html

The average private high school tuition is Baltimore is less than the per pupil cost for Baltimore public schools


https://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2018/05/21/five-maryland-school-districts-rank-among-top-10.htmlU

[George M. Middius]

MiNe109 wrote:

> Baltimore city schools are chronically underfunded. Discipline can't
> make up for unheated rooms in the winter.

Time to renew your "debating trade" license. Choose the reply
Witlessmongrel is most likely to yap:

(A) Baltimore is too nonwhite to care about.

(B) "Allowing" students to have prayer in class would fix everything.

(C) Notice how all the black guys stick together to attack Prezzie Drumpf?

(D) You say "unheated", we say "undisciplined". Swampee, swampier,
swampiest.

[ScottW]

If the public school system in Baltimore is that broken...then it seems school choice is a must. How does a school district really get that broke?
Must have bought a whole bunch of those useless kiddy books.

ScottW

[ScottW]

Why am I not surprised that Stephen has been taken in by some propaganda probably sourced by some teachers union?

Meanwhile we have George swallowing the turd that Mitch is in the bag with Putin for refusing to pass a BS election security package by unanimous consent.

I guess that's the new NORMAL...believe everything that fits your paradigm...no matter what.

ScottW

[ScottW]

Another tour of some Baltimore neighborhoods.

https://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2019/07/29/this-thread-wow-benny-johnson-toured-rep-cummings-baltimore-district-and-heres-what-he-found-out/

Sounds like Detroit during it's decay period....which in spite of what many imply...that city continues to bleed residents.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/detroit-population/

Perhaps not all cities should be saved.

ScottW

[ScottW]

I guess the Mayor agreed.

https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1155574627869122560

ScottW

[Art Sackman]

https://conduitstreet.mdcounties.org/2017/10/04/chart-shows-marylands-2017-school-funding-per-student/

Montgomery and Howard Counties spend less than Baltimore and they are among the best school districts in the country.

[Art Sackman]

Don’t be deceived by those photos of vacant and bioarded up houses. They are not vacant at all. There are ‘at leased’ 6 registered Democrat voters listed in each one!

[MiNe109]

Charter schools aren't working out as hoped, unless what was hoped was
the financial benefit of their backers.

How? Underfunding by bureaucratic sabotage, for instance not including
adjustments for inflation/cost of living. It's not the school district,
it's the funding from the state.

https://www.naacpldf.org/press-release/concerned-parents-civil-rights-organizations-call-state-maryland-provide-education-funding-baltimore-schools-investment-children-color/

"For more than a decade, the State has been in violation of court orders
that require sufficient funding to ensure that Baltimore City students
have access to the quality education they deserve. Compounding matters,
the state recently announced that a state commission studying the issue
would delay its funding formula until at least December of 2019, and a
new statewide proposal for improving school facilities is not likely to
fully address the abysmal conditions of many Baltimore City school
buildings. The net effect on both school facilities and school
operational funding has led to learning disadvantages for Black and
Latinx students and students from low-income families in Baltimore,
leaving them unacceptably shortchanged."

[Art Sackman]

Money money Money. More and more and more of it is not going to fix the problem. Baltimore City is the worst school district in the state. And it already spends more per student than Howard and Montgomery Counties. Two of the BEST SCHOOL DISTRICTS in the USA. The entire USA!!!!!!!

If you really care about the lives and well being of the children, almost all African American, you would support vouchers in Baltimore so that the children can get a decent education. The lives and prospects of these kids can

[Art Sackman]

Continued.

The lives and prospects of these kids can be greatly improved in just the span of one year. Baltimore public schools cannot be fixed at all, certainly not for decades.


Please please please. If you really care about the kids consider supporting vouchers to private schools.

I mean really, isn’t it racist to consign African American kids to a perpetually failed public school system?

[ScottW]

Your opinion on these matters are worthless. But in an open education market, parents can have a choice and aren't stuck in "schools that aren't working out".

>
> How? Underfunding by bureaucratic sabotage, for instance not including
> adjustments for inflation/cost of living. It's not the school district,
> it's the funding from the state.
>
> https://www.naacpldf.org/press-release/concerned-parents-civil-rights-organizations-call-state-maryland-provide-education-funding-baltimore-schools-investment-children-color/
>
> "For more than a decade, the State has been in violation of court orders
> that require sufficient funding to ensure that Baltimore City students
> have access to the quality education they deserve. Compounding matters,
> the state recently announced that a state commission studying the issue
> would delay its funding formula until at least December of 2019, and a
> new statewide proposal for improving school facilities is not likely to
> fully address the abysmal conditions of many Baltimore City school
> buildings. The net effect on both school facilities and school
> operational funding has led to learning disadvantages for Black and
> Latinx students and students from low-income families in Baltimore,
> leaving them unacceptably shortchanged."

Art has already a far more compelling set of facts that show that lack of money is the real issue in Baltimore.
You've just provided the usual union crap...mo money...mo money...

ScottW

[MiNe109]

As are yours. Good thing there are studies. Here's one:

http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_CREDO.pdf

>> How? Underfunding by bureaucratic sabotage, for instance not
>> including adjustments for inflation/cost of living. It's not the
>> school district, it's the funding from the state.
>>
>> https://www.naacpldf.org/press-release/concerned-parents-civil-rights-organizations-call-state-maryland-provide-education-funding-baltimore-schools-investment-children-color/

>> "For more than a decade, the State has been in violation of court orders
>> that require sufficient funding to ensure that Baltimore City
>> students have access to the quality education they deserve.
>> Compounding matters, the state recently announced that a state
>> commission studying the issue would delay its funding formula until
>> at least December of 2019, and a new statewide proposal for
>> improving school facilities is not likely to fully address the
>> abysmal conditions of many Baltimore City school buildings. The net
>> effect on both school facilities and school operational funding has
>> led to learning disadvantages for Black and Latinx students and
>> students from low-income families in Baltimore, leaving them
>> unacceptably shortchanged."
>
> Art has already a far more compelling set of facts that show that
> lack of money is the real issue in Baltimore. You've just provided
> the usual union crap...mo money...mo money...

Art: lack of money is the real issue

NAACP: lack of money is the real issue

[ScottW]

As usual... you can't read your own reference.

"There is some good news as well. Nationally, elementary and middle school charter students exhibited higher learning gains than equivalent students in the traditional public school system.  In  addition,  some  subgroups  demonstrated  greater  academic  growth  than  their  TPS  twins.  Specifically, students in poverty and ELL students experience larger learning gains in charter  schools.  Other subgroups, however, including Black and Hispanic students as a whole, have  learning gains that are significantly smaller than those of their TPS twins.    Our pooled study also revealed that time plays a significant role in the academic growth of  charter school students. First year charter students experience significantly smaller learning gains  compared to their TPS peers. Second and third year charter students not only reverse this trend,  but can anticipate larger learning gains than those of their TPS counterparts.  

>
> >> How? Underfunding by bureaucratic sabotage, for instance not
> >> including adjustments for inflation/cost of living. It's not the
> >> school district, it's the funding from the state.
> >>
> >> https://www.naacpldf.org/press-release/concerned-parents-civil-rights-organizations-call-state-maryland-provide-education-funding-baltimore-schools-investment-children-color/
>
> >> "For more than a decade, the State has been in violation of court orders
> >> that require sufficient funding to ensure that Baltimore City
> >> students have access to the quality education they deserve.
> >> Compounding matters, the state recently announced that a state
> >> commission studying the issue would delay its funding formula until
> >> at least December of 2019, and a new statewide proposal for
> >> improving school facilities is not likely to fully address the
> >> abysmal conditions of many Baltimore City school buildings. The net
> >> effect on both school facilities and school operational funding has
> >> led to learning disadvantages for Black and Latinx students and
> >> students from low-income families in Baltimore, leaving them
> >> unacceptably shortchanged."
> >
> > Art has already a far more compelling set of facts that show that
> > lack of money is the real issue in Baltimore. You've just provided
> > the usual union crap...mo money...mo money...
>
> Art: lack of money is the real issue

I mistyped....obviously I meant lack of money is NOT the real issue.

>
> NAACP: lack of money is the real issue

But hey...if your argument hangs on a typo...what kind of argument have you got?

ScottW

[Art Sackman]

What? I said the opposite. There is plants of money that gets near zero performance.

There are those parents and children who don’t value education. They can’t beefucated cuz they resist.
But there are those who do value it. Let them find success by escaping via vouchers for private education that works

[Art Sackman]

What? Plenty of money is spent on horrible results

[MiNe109]

The point was to get you to read it.

> "There is some good news as well. Nationally, elementary and middle
> school charter students exhibited higher learning gains than
> equivalent students in the traditional public school system. In
> addition, some subgroups demonstrated greater academic growth
> than their TPS twins. Specifically, students in poverty and ELL
> students experience larger learning gains in charter schools. Other
> subgroups, however, including Black and Hispanic students as a whole,
> have learning gains that are significantly smaller than those of
> their TPS twins. Our pooled study also revealed that time plays a
> significant role in the academic growth of charter school students.
> First year charter students experience significantly smaller learning
> gains compared to their TPS peers. Second and third year charter
> students not only reverse this trend, but can anticipate larger
> learning gains than those of their TPS counterparts.

I see your usual inability to weigh conflicting information continues.

>>>> How? Underfunding by bureaucratic sabotage, for instance not
>>>> including adjustments for inflation/cost of living. It's not
>>>> the school district, it's the funding from the state.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.naacpldf.org/press-release/concerned-parents-civil-rights-organizations-call-state-maryland-provide-education-funding-baltimore-schools-investment-children-color/

>>> Art has already a far more compelling set of facts that show
>>> that lack of money is the real issue in Baltimore. You've just
>>> provided the usual union crap...mo money...mo money...
>>
>> Art: lack of money is the real issue
>
> I mistyped....obviously I meant lack of money is NOT the real issue.

How is that obvious when it is the real issue?

>> NAACP: lack of money is the real issue
>
> But hey...if your argument hangs on a typo...what kind of argument
> have you got?

Not my typo, not my argument. But here's more:

https://www.wmar2news.com/news/region/baltimore-city/parents-of-city-students-sue-maryland-for-lack-of-funding-for-baltimore-city-schools

A $2 billion hole takes more than "discipline" to overcome.

[Art Sackman]

I already showed you the funding situation. Second highest out of 24 state jurisdictions in spending per student

More spending per student than excellent systems in Howard and Montgomery Counties

[Art Sackman]

You can give them $4 billion extra and the performance would not improve.

They already spend the second highest of 24 in the state and rank 24 dead last in performance.

[ScottW]

I see your inability to read past the large print continues.

ScottW

[ScottW]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 5:30:56 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
> I already showed you the funding situation. Second highest out of 24 state jurisdictions in spending per student
>
> More spending per student than excellent systems in Howard and Montgomery Counties

Too many facts. Stephen only accepts biased special interest propaganda.

ScottW

[MiNe109]

On 7/30/19 10:19 PM, ScottW wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 2:46:53 PM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:
>> On 7/30/19 12:26 PM, ScottW wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 10:10:58 AM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:

>>>>>> Charter schools aren't working out as hoped, unless what was
>>>>>> hoped was the financial benefit of their backers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your opinion on these matters are worthless. But in an open
>>>>> education market, parents can have a choice and aren't stuck in
>>>>> "schools that aren't working out".
>>>>
>>>> As are yours. Good thing there are studies. Here's one:
>>>>
>>>> http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_CREDO.pdf
>>>
>>> As usual... you can't read your own reference.
>>
>> The point was to get you to read it.

>> I see your usual inability to weigh conflicting information continues.
>
> I see your inability to read past the large print continues.

All I did was point out that neither of us know anything about charter
schools but that there are studies of them. If the size of print is your
level of discernment, carry on.

[MiNe109]

On 7/30/19 10:19 PM, ScottW wrote:

Perhaps it costs more to educate students in Baltimore because funding
is diverted to non-educational purposes such as building maintenance.

And Art didn't show me anything. He's in "wailing and gnashing of teeth"
land.

[Art Sackman]

More nonsense. The good systems are in areas with population expansions. They spend a chunk of their money on me school construction.


More to follow

[Art Sackman]

A lot of the mo eye goes to school administrators. Baltimore’s per pupil cost for administrators is the highest in the country


http://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-schools-1-in-america-for-admin-costs



More to follow

[Art Sackman]

http://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/baltimore-city-schools-1-in-america-for-admin-costs

That’s the published budget

Approximately 8% of the budget goes to plant (facilities)

See pages 61,62

[ScottW]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 8:39:52 PM UTC-7, MINe109 wrote:
> On 7/30/19 10:19 PM, ScottW wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 5:30:56 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
> >> I already showed you the funding situation. Second highest out of
> >> 24 state jurisdictions in spending per student
> >>
> >> More spending per student than excellent systems in Howard and
> >> Montgomery Counties
> >
> > Too many facts. Stephen only accepts biased special interest
> > propaganda.
>
> Perhaps it costs more to educate students in Baltimore because funding
> is diverted to non-educational purposes such as building maintenance.

Weren't you just complaining the students didn't have heated classrooms in winter?

>
> And Art didn't show me anything. He's in "wailing and gnashing of teeth"
> land.

Lots of links with lots of data. You only read what you want to hear.
The primary reason you're owned by the dem party. You refuse to consider reality and think for yourself.
Hence, I call you a foolish tool....and a perv.

ScottW

[ScottW]

You brought up charter schools in response to my call for school choice.
There will always be successes and failures.
The problem is you condemn kids to failing systems without choice.

ScottW

[Art Sackman]

Steve spews more nonsense

Operation and maintenance of plant is 9.3 percent of the Howard County school biudget. That’s a lower percentage than Baltimore allocates

https://www.boarddocs.com/mabe/hcpssmd/Board.nsf/files/B9L38G788D57/$file/02%2019%202019%20FY%202020%20%20Score%20Sheets.pdf


See page 16

[Art Sackman]

It’s the Socialist ‘way’

It’s unfair if some kids have better opportunities than others. Fairness dictates that the potential for each person be brought down to the lowest common denominator. If one person is doomed to failure it’s only fair to doom everyone to failure. Equality rules!!!!

[Art Sackman]

You forgot to accuse him of racism. He wants inner city blacks to be bound to the long time failing puckish school system.

[ScottW]

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 9:26:04 PM UTC-7, Art Sackman wrote:
> You forgot to accuse him of racism. He wants inner city blacks to be bound to the long time failing puckish school system.

Good point.

Oh well...the dems just fired all the white people from their senior DCCC positions over the color of their skin.
It's just the beginning of a white purge of the new racist dem party.
George and Stephen might be next.

ScottW

[Art Sackman]

george is desperate. He’ll do anything to keep his DCCC job

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/02/04/opinion/04bouieSub/04bouieSub-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale