Best DAC under $3000
Kim
Hi,
I'm looking for a DAC with volume control, which allow
me directly connect to my power amps.
Price range from USD$700-$3000.
I think AA DCEv3 is a good choice for price/performance.
However, I would like to know if there are any other DAC with volume
control in the above price range. I only know the Procced DAP does,
also. But I have no idea for the quality.
Anyone, any other good choice ?
Thanks a lot.
Kim
Scott W.
Kim,
I use the Proceed DAP w/HDCD (latest model) and chose it over the Theta Basic
III, and the Sonic Frontiers. I am not, however, using its volume control.
Any D/A that has a volume control is most likely reducing bits....the Proceed
reduces bits for 10db, then switches in a 10db resistor and restores the
bits. This method means that the bit reduction never exceeds more than 10 db
(which I'm not sure how many bits of resolution that equates to...maybe 12-15
bits....only the engineers know that stuff....)
What ends up happening though is you are either putting extra resistors into
the signal path or reducing the bit resolution of the D/A that you just paid
so much money for.....
Rather than buy a $3k D/A, buy a $2k D/A and get yourself a fine preamp for
$1k.....Classe, Melos SHA, Audible Illusions Line Stage, or other...you might
be better off.
Remember....price isn't always the arbiter of quality...I PREFFERRED the $2k
Proceed DAP to the more expensive units from Theta and Sonic Frontiers. I
also prefer my $2k Pass Aleph 3 to more expensive units. Just because a D/A
is $3k doesn't necessarily mean it sounds better than a $2k unit.
Happy hunting!
Scott
Stewart Pinkerton
"Scott W." <sco...@interramp.com> writes:
>Rather than buy a $3k D/A, buy a $2k D/A and get yourself a fine preamp for
>$1k.....Classe, Melos SHA, Audible Illusions Line Stage, or other...you might
>be better off.
Bzzzzt! Bad choice - get a $2900 DAC and a $100 pot which you wire to
the input of your power amp. Best possible sound and a very small cost
hit, even if the $100 covers a box, the wire and the RCA connectors.
ALPS Blue Velvet or Black Beauty can be had for this kind of money and
you won't find better in any of the high-end preamps. My Blue Velvet was
bought for 20 quid from my local dealer as a spare for the Naim NAC 52!
>Remember....price isn't always the arbiter of quality...I PREFFERRED the $2k
>Proceed DAP to the more expensive units from Theta and Sonic Frontiers. I
>also prefer my $2k Pass Aleph 3 to more expensive units. Just because a D/A
>is $3k doesn't necessarily mean it sounds better than a $2k unit.
True of course, but why buy a preamp at all if you don't need one?
Roland Yap Hock Chuan
Kim (k...@hactl.com.hk) wrote:
: Hi,
: I'm looking for a DAC with volume control, which allow
: me directly connect to my power amps.
: Price range from USD$700-$3000.
: I think AA DCEv3 is a good choice for price/performance.
: However, I would like to know if there are any other DAC with volume
: control in the above price range. I only know the Procced DAP does,
: also. But I have no idea for the quality.
Requiring a volume control certainly narrows your choices.
Why don't you have a look at the new AA DDE v1.2? The v3 uses digital
attenuation for HDCD but the v1.2 I think uses analog which is preferable.
How much is the DDE v3 going for in HK$?
Roland
Mark Schifter
Requiring a volume control certainly narrows your choices.
>Why don't you have a look at the new AA DDE v1.2? The v3 uses digital
>attenuation for HDCD but the v1.2 I think uses analog which is
preferable.
>
>How much is the DDE v3 going for in HK$?
>
>Roland
DDE v3.0 sells for 5180 HK$'s...
Thanks... and all the best... mls
-
MARK SCHIFTER LWB...@prodigy.com
Felix M.C. Li
Roland Yap Hock Chuan wrote:
>
> Requiring a volume control certainly narrows your choices.
> Why don't you have a look at the new AA DDE v1.2? The v3 uses digital
> attenuation for HDCD but the v1.2 I think uses analog which is preferable.
That 6db attenuation for non-HDCD in V3 can be defeated, just like any
other DAC equipped with the PMD100 chip, it made a difference but not
that much. Adding a PS2 made a bigger difference.
Regards,
Felix M.C. Li
David Kwan
> Kim wrote:
> > I'm looking for a DAC with volume control, which allow me directly
> > connect to my power amps. Price range from USD$700-$3000.
> > I think AA DCEv3 is a good choice for price/performance.
> Remember....price isn't always the arbiter of quality...I PREFFERRED the $2k
> Proceed DAP to the more expensive units from Theta and Sonic Frontiers. I
> also prefer my $2k Pass Aleph 3 to more expensive units. Just because a D/A
> is $3k doesn't necessarily mean it sounds better than a $2k unit.
>
> Scott
I recently bought the Proceed DAP at HK$13,500. It's great. I chose it over the
comparably priced Wadia, Sonic Frontier and PS Audio.
David
Michael N. Goldshteyn
In article <320E2D...@hk.super.net>,
So, how do you defeat the digital attenuation in the v3. I am sure plenty
of people would LOVE to do it!
Mike
mi...@wwa.com
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
> "Scott W." <sco...@interramp.com> writes:
>
> >Rather than buy a $3k D/A, buy a $2k D/A and get yourself a fine preamp for
> >$1k.....Classe, Melos SHA, Audible Illusions Line Stage, or other...you might
> >be better off.
>
> Bzzzzt! Bad choice - get a $2900 DAC and a $100 pot
BZZZZZT
Worse choice!
which you wire to
> the input of your power amp. Best possible sound and a very small cost
> hit, even if the $100 covers a box, the wire and the RCA connectors.
> ALPS Blue Velvet or Black Beauty can be had for this kind of money and
> you won't find better in any of the high-end preamps. My Blue Velvet was
> bought for 20 quid from my local dealer as a spare for the Naim NAC 52!
>
> >Remember....price isn't always the arbiter of quality...I PREFFERRED the $2k
> >Proceed DAP to the more expensive units from Theta and Sonic Frontiers. I
> >also prefer my $2k Pass Aleph 3 to more expensive units. Just because a D/A
> >is $3k doesn't necessarily mean it sounds better than a $2k unit.
>
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Where are my ACDPRO's??????
:) :) :)
Zip
Stewart Pinkerton
"Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)" <z...@netrunner.net> writes:
>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>>
>> "Scott W." <sco...@interramp.com> writes:
>>
>> >Rather than buy a $3k D/A, buy a $2k D/A and get yourself a fine preamp for
>> >$1k.....Classe, Melos SHA, Audible Illusions Line Stage, or other...you might
>> >be better off.
>>
>> Bzzzzt! Bad choice - get a $2900 DAC and a $100 pot
>BZZZZZT
>Worse choice!
Ahh, how lovely to see the doyen of reasoned argument returned safely to
the fold! Acapulco huh? Nice to see you've persuaded adequate numbers of
folks that they really do have to chop in their nasty ol' Krells for
those nice Alephs :-)
I guess you think Audio Alchemy DDEv3.0 and TLC is the answer (giggle)?
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Do you mean DLC? No I don't. I like the v3.0 with its built in volume
control ( I have the gain reduced so I run it near full out for normal
listening - but to tell the truth, I kinda like their v1.2 better....
uh, don't tell Mark!
By the way, tieing my success (or lack of) to my trip to Mexico is a bit
much. Considering it was our (my wonderful wife Gigi & I) first
vacation in a year & a half or so, I'd say it was mandatory R&R. If I
continue to recommend PASS over Krell, Stew, it is only because the PASS
amps sound considerably better, not because I have to spend 5 days
sipping Pina Coladas on a beach - I can do that right here in Miami! I
really did need the vaca - to keep from burning out :)
Cheers & happy listening (despite your Krell amp!)
Zip
Roland Yap Hock Chuan
Felix M.C. Li (mc...@hk.super.net) wrote:
: Roland Yap Hock Chuan wrote:
: >
: > Requiring a volume control certainly narrows your choices.
: > Why don't you have a look at the new AA DDE v1.2? The v3 uses digital
: > attenuation for HDCD but the v1.2 I think uses analog which is preferable.
: That 6db attenuation for non-HDCD in V3 can be defeated, just like any
: other DAC equipped with the PMD100 chip, it made a difference but not
: that much. Adding a PS2 made a bigger difference.
While this is a different D/A, in the Aug Stereophile review of
the Theta Chroma, Robert Hartley writes that the digital attenuation
on the Theta can be defeated using a small mod and to paraphrase:
The improvement in sound quality rendered by the modification
is not subtle.
I suppose your tweak must be something to do with turning off a pin
on the PMD100 HDCD chip. What about matching levels though ...
I wonder if the AA DDE v1.2 is more than just that.
Roland
Roland Yap Hock Chuan
Felix M.C. Li (mc...@hk.super.net) wrote:
: Roland Yap Hock Chuan wrote:
: >
: > Requiring a volume control certainly narrows your choices.
: > Why don't you have a look at the new AA DDE v1.2? The v3 uses digital
: > attenuation for HDCD but the v1.2 I think uses analog which is preferable.
: That 6db attenuation for non-HDCD in V3 can be defeated, just like any
: other DAC equipped with the PMD100 chip, it made a difference but not
: that much. Adding a PS2 made a bigger difference.
: Regards,
: Felix M.C. Li
--
--------------
Roland Yap E-mail: ry...@iscs.nus.sg
Dept. of Information Systems & Computer Science
National University of Singapore Telephone: +65 772-2972
Lower Kent Ridge Road Fax: +65 779-4580
Singapore 119260
Mark Schifter
>>That 6db attenuation for non-HDCD in V3 can be defeated, just like any
>>other DAC equipped with the PMD100 chip, it made a difference but not
>>that much. Adding a PS2 made a bigger difference.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Felix M.C. Li
>
>So, how do you defeat the digital attenuation in the v3. I am sure
plenty
>of people would LOVE to do it!
>
>Mike
>mi...@wwa.com
>
PLEASE hold on a day or two...
Audio Alchemy will be making an upgrade card to defeat the 6 dB
attenuation matter, as well as making the DDE v3.0 a *true* 20 Bit DAC
(as opposed to 19 Bit now with the digital domain implementation).
This card will plug into the socket where the PMD-100 HDCD Filter plugs
in now... and will offer new, unrealized performance benefit(s)...
More in a day or two...
Thanks,
Mark L. Schifter
President / CEO
Audio Alchemy, Inc.
-
MARK SCHIFTER LWB...@prodigy.com
Felix M.C. Li
Michael N. Goldshteyn wrote:
>
> >That 6db attenuation for non-HDCD in V3 can be defeated, just like any
> >other DAC equipped with the PMD100 chip, it made a difference but not
> >that much. Adding a PS2 made a bigger difference.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Felix M.C. Li
>
> So, how do you defeat the digital attenuation in the v3. I am sure plenty
> of people would LOVE to do it!
I don't know if it is appropriate for me to post it out, since I get it
from a mail reply from AA. If you are using AA's DDE V3, I think it is
more appropriate for you to send a mail to AA or ask AA or any company
to post it out.
BTW, one post in this thread mention the level matching, it is true the
sound from non-HDCD is louder than before. IMHO, that's not a problem
for the CDs that I usually played. (I add a 10db attenuation to the
analog output by setting the jumpers)
Regards,
Felix M.C. Li
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Felix M.C. Li wrote:
> > So, how do you defeat the digital attenuation in the v3. I am sure plenty
> > of people would LOVE to do it!
>
> I don't know if it is appropriate for me to post it out, since I get it
> from a mail reply from AA. If you are using AA's DDE V3, I think it is
> more appropriate for you to send a mail to AA or ask AA or any company
> to post it out.
Felix:
Mark Schifter has already said it would be posted here. Why don't you
simply do everyone here a good samaritan service & post it! Beat them
to the punch as it were:) It WOULD be most appropriate.
Cheers & happy listening!
Zip
kim
Mark Schifter wrote:
> PLEASE hold on a day or two...
>
> Audio Alchemy will be making an upgrade card to defeat the 6 dB
> attenuation matter, as well as making the DDE v3.0 a *true* 20 Bit DAC
> (as opposed to 19 Bit now with the digital domain implementation).
>
> This card will plug into the socket where the PMD-100 HDCD Filter plugs
> in now... and will offer new, unrealized performance benefit(s)...
>
Wow, sounds great ?
When ?
Should I wait for the upgrade ?
Kim
Hong Geun Im
In article <4ur47h$1q...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> LWB...@prodigy.com (Mark Schifter) writes:
>
>Audio Alchemy will be making an upgrade card to defeat the 6 dB
>attenuation matter, as well as making the DDE v3.0 a *true* 20 Bit DAC
>(as opposed to 19 Bit now with the digital domain implementation).
>
this attenuation in analog domain. So, is the attenuation defeatable
in 1.2 as well? Do we also need the upgrade card to do that?
Hong
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.)
Hong Geun Im wrote:
> And what about the new DDEv1.2 ? I understand 1.2 does
> this attenuation in analog domain. So, is the attenuation defeatable
> in 1.2 as well? Do we also need the upgrade card to do that?
Unnecessary. The real improvement in the 3.0 mod brings the unit from
19 bit to 20 bit on non-HDCD recordings - which means on just about
everything.
The v1.2 is already 20bit on non-HDCD stuff.
I got this from Peter Madnick today.
Cheers & happy listening
Zip
Felix M.C. Li
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) wrote:
>
> Mark Schifter has already said it would be posted here. Why don't you
> simply do everyone here a good samaritan service & post it! Beat them
> to the punch as it were:) It WOULD be most appropriate.
I didn't saw any post from Mr. Mark Schifter that it would be posted
here. I rather saw a post from him that there will be an upgrade card
slipping in between PMD100 and its socket comming soon for defeating the
6db (may be more, I don't know).
IMO, I don't think it is appropriate to post a mail from someone out
without the permission of the sender. Sorry that I really don't want
to embarass anyone even it might be a good thing for every DDE V3.0
users in the world.
Regards,
Felix M.C. Li
Michael N. Goldshteyn
In article <321004...@netrunner.net>,
Steve Zipser (Sunshine Stereo Inc.) <z...@netrunner.net> wrote:
>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>>
>> "Scott W." <sco...@interramp.com> writes:
>>
>> >Rather than buy a $3k D/A, buy a $2k D/A and get yourself a fine preamp for
>> >$1k.....Classe, Melos SHA, Audible Illusions Line Stage, or other...you might
>> >be better off.
>>
>> Bzzzzt! Bad choice - get a $2900 DAC and a $100 pot
>
>
>
>BZZZZZT
>Worse choice!
Worse choice, if you want to throw your money away on equipment which
changes the original sound. If you want your recording to come out as true
to the original as possible, nothing will beat the most money you can
spent on a DAC and the rest spent on a $150 passive pre-amp (e.g. QED CD
volume control). Any money that you spend on a pre-amp is generally money
spent towards making the listening worse, unless you are using the world's
cheapest CD player or your DAC has a very low power output (e.g. Muse,
etc...)
Mike
mi...@wwa.com