Is the Hale Design Group Going Out of Business

[mdapson]

Hi,
I was thinking about buying some Hales speakers. Can anyone confirm
a rumor that they are bankrupt?

Matt

[Jeff A. Wiseman]

In article <95k2m...@news1.newsguy.com>,

Hales Design Group no longer exists. Last summer or thereabouts,
Wadia bought them. The Hales folks thought that this might be a good
thing since they were having a problem keeping up with all of the
orders they had and needed capital to expand their manufacturing
facility. Unfortunately Wadia had been having some long term money
problems and instead of putting into Hales, they were extracting
resources. Even worse, it still wasn't enough to solve Wadia's
problem and a few months later, Wadia's note was called in and THEY
were Bankrupt (dragging Hales down with them).

During the period following that (basically last fall), apparently
several investors tried to separate Hales from the Wadia bankruptcy
but apparently there was not much success. During that time Paul Hale
was offered a lucritive opportunity working with QSC (a pro-audio
type company) that he decided to accept. Hales Design group was gone.

Just around Christmas last year it was announced that QSC had
purchased all of the Hales inventory, parts, and the rights to use
the Hales name. Furthermore, they announced that they were planning
on setting up a service center for Hales speakers for as long as
their parts inventory lasted. After that, they were not sure what
would happen. Note that this center was for servicing only and NOT
warranty work. Anyone buying Hales speakers today do so without a
warranty. However, parts "should" be available should you damage your
speakers in the near future.

Note that even without warranty, I think that the Hales are still the
best sounding speakers in their price range. I just bought another
pair for my second system.

If you are buying though, You should not be paying the regular list
price as several dealers are trying to clear these now due to them
not having warrranties anymore.

Note that the preceeding is just my take on the events leading up to
today and are just my own personal view on what all has happened
created from the bits and pieces of information I've gathered over
the last 6-9 months.

- Jeff

--
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Jeff Wiseman Alcatel USA
Jeff.W...@usa.alcatel.com Plano, Texas
(972)477-3044

[Jeff A. Wiseman]

In article <95q16...@news1.newsguy.com>,
jms...@aol.com (Jms ent) writes:
> The big question is which parts are in the Hales inventory
> purchased by QSC. There is no guarantee that the driver
> that might fail in a particular Hales model will be one
> which will be in that stock. And if its not, the chances of
> finding an exact replacement are slim. Hales had a tendency to
> use a lot of different drivers from quite a few different suppliers
> in his various models, many of which were custom units. It would be
> wise to contact QSC to see if they have drivers for the particular
> Hales model in question before buying the speakers.

Actually, if I understand correctly, many of the drivers are off-the-shelf
drivers from the same manufacturer and the custom drivers were also
from that same manufacturer (I forget the name but i thought it
started with a "V"). Also, QSC is supposed to be putting some of
this information and ordering information on their web site (wherever
that is).

[John Stone]

Jeff Wiseman writes:
>Actually, if I understand correctly, many of the drivers are off-the-shelf
>drivers from the same manufacturer and the custom drivers were also
>from that same manufacturer (I forget the name but i thought it
>started with a "V"). Also, QSC is supposed to be putting some of
>this information and ordering information on their web site (wherever
>that is).

Hales purchased drivers from Vifa, Seas, Audax, Focal, and Alumapro.
These are the ones I know about,there could be others.
E.g., the T8 used a Vifa tweeter,a Seas midrange, and Alumapro woofers.
I represent SEAS, and I know for sure that our drivers were not off
the shelf. The same holds true for at least some off the Vifa drivers. For
instance, the Vifa-built tweeter in the Transcendence series is also completely
custom. Where custom drivers are concerned, most OEM's
will require a minimum production quantity for a manufacturing run.
Usually this involves far more than the small quantity desired to maintain
repair parts on a discontinued model, so, often-times the part becomes
unavailable.

[tom brennan]

John Stone---Just what does "custom" mean? Are there problems with stock
drivers or sometimes does nothing in the wide range made by outfits like
SEAS or Vifa suit some company's needs? Surely custom must mean
"different" rather than "better".
Tom Brennan

http://community.webtv.net/irishtom/TommysHornSpeaker
http://community.webtv.net/irishtom/MoreLinks

[John Stone]

tom brennan writes:
>John Stone---Just what does "custom" mean? Are there problems with stock
>drivers or sometimes does nothing in the wide range made by outfits like
>SEAS or Vifa suit some company's needs? Surely custom must mean
>"different" rather than "better".

A good, and rather complex question. "Custom" can mean anything from
minor cosmetic changes to a full-blown special driver resembling
nothing in the standard range. Typical custom woofers will have
changes from the standard such as, voice coil impedance and length,
different former materials;(e.g. kapton vs aluminum) spider and
surround stiffness and damping, cone coatings, dust cap hardness,etc.
This is done, of course, to better match the designer's idea of the
best driver for his particular application. It also always brings
with it trade-offs in other performance areas. Some designers go much
further, even designing special cones and magnet systems, which we
then make for them. This can get very expensive. So yes, custom
certainly means "different" and depending on the application, and
whom you ask, it can also mean "better". Custom tweeters tend to
deviate less from standard units with changes confined mostly to
cosmetics, impedance, and voice coil materials. They are far
more"black magic" than woofers in that small physical changes can
often result in unexpected, large acoustic changes-usually negative.
Good tweeter designers are very hard to find, and most system
designers shy away from trying to change tweeters very much.

[IMRAW1]

I have one question for all of you about speaker usage and why you are worried
about parts. First, Hales Design speakers, as mentioned earlier, are excellent
speakers. If you can get a great deal on them then do not hesitate to purchase
them, even with out a warranty. With regard to needing warranty, during my
time of selling Hales speakers not a single one came back for warranty work.
Unless you are pumping mega watts of pure distortion into these speakers, or
any quality speaker for that matter, you really have no fear of blowing them.
If you do blow a quality speaker like Hales, then you get what you deserve. If
I was looking for a pair of speakers and found a dealer clearing them out, I
would own a pair. It is really no different then buying used speakers off of
the net, except for the fact you are getting a brand new pair without a
warranty, and a quality pair at that.
Randy

[John Stone]

Have you never heard of Murphy's law? Amplifiers have been
known to blow and take speakers with them. Interconnects
get yanked by accident with the volume up full. Junior comes
along and puts his finger right into the tweeter dome. The cat
suddenly decides the grille is his favorite scratching post.
etc., etc., etc., Suddenly that great deal turns into a pair
of useless mini-coffins.

[Jeff Wiseman]

John Stone wrote:
> Have you never heard of Murphy's law? Amplifiers have been
> known to blow and take speakers with them. Interconnects
> get yanked by accident with the volume up full. Junior comes
> along and puts his finger right into the tweeter dome. The cat
> suddenly decides the grille is his favorite scratching post.
> etc., etc., etc., Suddenly that great deal turns into a pair
> of useless mini-coffins.

This is true and if you would never consider purchasing anything
used (i.e., without warranty), then you are correct, bad things
can happen. However, I have found the sound on these to be so
wonderful--especially at their price range that I for one am
willing to take the risk and keep the cats out of the house :-)

- Jeff

[IMRAW1]

All of the things you mention are not covered under warranty though.
And as far as the cat goes, any $10 cat that tears up a $4000 pair of
speakers would be one dead cat. Dont get me wrong, I love cats.
Once again, these things are not covered under warranty.

My point was simply this, Hales Design Group makes/did make excellent
speakers and a buyer should not be affraid to purchase them if they
can get a great deal on them from a dealer trying to clear his
inventory. What better way to get a great pair of speakers.

On top of that, under normal and even abnormal use, the speakers will
deliver years and years of enjoyment.
Randy

[jason]

Here's an ethical question...

What would you consider a pair of T5's to be worth? They're 6.5K new,
right? So factor in used + out of production + can't get new parts = ??

I do have a reason for asking this, not just idle curiosity.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

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