Thiel 2.3 comments (welcome critiques?)
will
interesting results with these when I heard them, I'm wondering what
other people think about it?
Associated equipment was pretty much in line with what I'd expect of this
speaker, CD Source was a California Audio Labs CL-15, preamp was an Audio
Research LS-15, amp was a German brand that I didn't recongnize, it was
100x2 Class A however, and cost around $4000... Cabling was all Tara
Decade, the speakers were located in a 12x15 foot room, treated, with
tube traps, etc...
I put in Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" and played track 3, hotel california,
I was immediately struck by the clear imaging and accuracy. Bass,
however, seemed a little weak on this track (which is extremely deep on
my reference system) Vocals seemed allright, a little on the bright side
if anything, but the nice thing about this was the image.
Switching discs to "The Best of Sade", I put on track 3, "Smooth
Operator" and was impressed with the bass punch on this song. Vocals
came off pretty well, although this song, like its name, is silky smooth
on almost all systems... Midrange was a little colored however...
I then played the remastered "Freedom Sessions" by Sarah Mclachlan, track
1, elsewhere, came off with nice bass and midbass, but was fairly bright
at the high end...
Switching to classical music, I put in a gold remaster of Mahler's 1st
Symphony, and played the fourth movement, with its thunderous dynamics.
This was rendered excellently, although the high end was again somewhat
piercing. Bass here was outstanding, and this speaker is definitely
capable of excellent dynamics without inordinate amounts of power
(although it is a 4 ohm load)
To test this midrange coloration/top end brightness theory, I put in a
wonderfully recorded classical CD, Svirvoslav Richter, playing
Racmanhinoff's Piano Concerto #2 and Tsiachovsky's Piano Concerto with
the Warsaw Philharmonic... one of the best piano and orchestra
recordings of all time. I was struck by the piercing highs and colored
midrange in this otherwise wonderful recording...
Giving them another chance, I played a recording of Aaron Copland's
"Fanfare for the Common Man" performed by the Chicago Symphony. The
second the horns came through, i switched the CD off, it was horribly
piercing... Bass was great, but I couldn't possibly stand that highs on
this setup.
Another bass test was "El Cid" played by the Cleveland Symphony under
Kunzel, and this was wonderful, great extension and presence...
I gave the speakers one last chance and put in a recording of the
Paganini Violin Concerto #1, recorded by Sarah Chang and the NY Symphony.
This was somewhat better but still not good enough on the mids/highs to
stand...
After I commented to the dealer about the brightness of the mids/highs,
he attributed that to the amp in the setup. I found similar results,
although to not as extreme an extent when I had heard the older 2.2s in a
system with either the Audio Research D-400 or the VT-200, both of which
I find to be very neutral amplifiers. While some of the brightness may
be due to the amplfication, I refuse to believe that a setup that costs
in excess of $15000 has mids/highs that sound worse in alot of ways to a
$400 bookshelf system.
In fact, since my Gallo Nucleus Solos are in service, I have a pair of
JBL bookshelves (really cheap ones, like $100 from Best Buy), powered by
a Krell KSA-200S (don't ask lol), through a Conrad Johnson PF-R, and a
Adcom GCD-700, driven by a Wadia X-32 via Illuminati D-60, and that
system sounds better than the 2.3s in midrange and highs, although
obviously it doesn't stage or image like the Thiels, or have close to as
much bass...
I would recommend the Thiel 2.3s to anyone who likes dynamics and good
bass, and likes their mids/highs on the bright side, although I find
these speakers far too hard to listen to to consider purchasing them.
-Warren
Johnny Y Boey
> the speakers were located in a 12x15 foot room, treated, with
> tube traps, etc...
>
> I would recommend the Thiel 2.3s to anyone who likes dynamics and good
> bass, and likes their mids/highs on the bright side, although I find
> these speakers far too hard to listen to to consider purchasing them.
>
First of all, the room 12x15 is obviously too small. How are the speakers set
up? The Thiels are time-aligned for listeners ~10ft away, so they obviously
have to place them along the 12" wall, and now they have serious problem
placing them away from the side walls, maybe ~2.5ft max. With this short
distance, they probably toe them in to minimize first reflection, and that is
one of the main reasons Thiels sound bright to a lot of people. They are
designed to be placed straight ahead, and the listeners ~10ft away.
JB
stewart ono
cancel out the woofer's upper frequency content. You may be hearing this
anomaly. Just remember the air coming off the passive is moving
diametrically opposite to the driven woofer. ... Stu
will
speakers were about 4' from the side walls and about 6' apart, and I was
sitting roughly 8' from the front of each speaker... i guess that would
make the room roughly 16x18...
LM...@hotmail.com
speakers were in a large (dealer) room, say 20 X 30, driven by a Proceed AMP2,
Transparent Ultra Cables, ML 39 cd player and ML 380S.
Although my session was far from extensive, I listened and thoroughly enjoyed
playing the "Buena Vista Social Club" CD. In a word, neutral. It just said
what was on the CD without much comment; And no I did not buy them.
My guess is you heard equipment or room interaction. The Proceed AMP 2 is far
from expensive although the 39 and 380s are not cheap; Then again, this is the
story of high-end, what sounds great to one person sounds terrible to another.
Just my $ .02
Sergio Rivera
LM...@hotmail.com
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Lost in Space
are, without question, on the bright side. I haven't heard the CS 2.3
yet, but I see no reason why it wouldn't follow the same lineage. The
only Thiel speaker I've heard that was not overly bright was the CS 5.
For this reason, I did not move up another notch in the Thiel series,
going instead to a different brand altogether.
I should add that the Thiel's brightness was evident regardless of the
source material and equipment. Yes, I tried both solid state and tube
equipment, even listening to my 3.6's through supossedly "dark"
sounding amplification.
Chuck Ross
>
> To test this midrange coloration/top end brightness theory, I put in a
> wonderfully recorded classical CD, Svirvoslav Richter, playing
> Racmanhinoff's Piano Concerto #2 and Tsiachovsky's Piano Concerto with
> the Warsaw Philharmonic... one of the best piano and orchestra
> recordings of all time. I was struck by the piercing highs and colored
> midrange in this otherwise wonderful recording...
>
> Giving them another chance, I played a recording of Aaron Copland's
> "Fanfare for the Common Man" performed by the Chicago Symphony. The
> second the horns came through, i switched the CD off, it was horribly
> piercing... Bass was great, but I couldn't possibly stand that highs on
> this setup.
For some reason, Thiel speakers are often accused of having "piercing"
high ends, but in most cases, this can be traced to something upstream
causing it, possibly the amp, cabling, even AC power quality, as I found
out the hard way. When Thiels like everything in the system, there
is no stridency to speak of unless, of course, it's in the recording,
which is not uncommon.
--
Johnny Y Boey
> As a past owner of both the CS 2 2 and the CS 3.6, I can say that they
> are, without question, on the bright side. I haven't heard the CS 2.3
> yet, but I see no reason why it wouldn't follow the same lineage.
how bout a change in tweeter design? All new Thiels use coaxial tweeters.
> I should add that the Thiel's brightness was evident regardless of the
> source material and equipment. Yes, I tried both solid state and tube
> equipment, even listening to my 3.6's through supossedly "dark"
> sounding amplification.
I do not find them bright at all. The high is very extended and might
sound bright to those who used to slightly rolled off speakers. By far the
most important is the setup. They are designed to be fired straight ahead.
You'll definitely need side-wall treatment if you can't place them at
least 5ft away from the sidewalls. When properly set-up, they should not
sound bright.
JB
Zipper413
recording as being accurate. How else do you explain the phenomenon you
described? Changes in the crossover between cuts? Gimme a break, the 2.3's
are excellent speakers.
LM...@hotmail.com
LM...@hotmail.com
Lost in Space
are, without question, on the bright side. I haven't heard the CS 2.3
only Thiel speaker I've heard that was not overly bright was the CS 5.
For this reason, I did not move up another notch in the Thiel series,
going instead to a different brand altogether.
I should add that the Thiel's brightness was evident regardless of the