The Great Amps of Yesterday
Dutchtr827
drive. I have been listening to some good amps and preamps over the years. I
remember that the first thing I learned about power amps was that simpler was
better. As for preamps the same logic holds true. We all know the fewer
components in the system the purer the sound. Most good preamps have special
inputs that bypass the balance control to eilminate more junk for the signal to
go through. I would like to hear from everyone so we can put together a list
of the best amplifiers and preamplifier that have been available over the
years. It would make great reference material ofr us all. From the great
speakers of yesterday thread we have assembled a very nice list. Maybe soon we
can put it up to a vote and find out where we all feel this equipment ranks.
May we all learn from the past and use the knowledge to improve the future.
Morevoer, we all must make sure our childeren learn from our mistakes for they
are the future.
The best sounds to all
Johann
Bob Trosper
>
>I
> remember that the first thing I learned about power amps was that simpler was
> better. As for preamps the same logic holds true. We all know the fewer
> components in the system the purer the sound. Most good preamps have special
> inputs that bypass the balance control to eilminate more junk for the signal to
> go through.
Um - I'd hold back a bit on that "we all know". I don't know that
every balance control does or doesn't pollute the sound, or that
simpler designs or lower parts count do or don't sound better. It's
all relative to the design, implementation and USE of the component.
God knows the ARC Classic 120's I have sitting on the floor are one
hell of a lot more complicated than the Fourier OTL I have in its box
ready for shipping to anyone who would like to buy it (see
rec.audio.marketplace), but in my system they sound better to me.
That said ---
Amps
Audio Research Classic 60 One of the most natural sounding amps
I've heard in a system I actually owned.
Audio Research Classic 120 The 60 with more power.
Goldmund Mimesis 80 Almost bought this instead of the ARC. One of
the few transistor amps I've heard without either edginess or
dullness.
Conrad-Johnson Premier 8 Seems to lose a TINY bit of ultimate
detail, but a truly great amp.
Adcom 555 Go ahead and snicker, but for the money it was THE
affordable solution if you needed lots of power and pretty decent
sound
Pre-amps As in amps, the less sound of their own, the better
Adcom GTP-500 More snickering, I'm sure, but in single blind tests
the top pre-amps didn't beat this thing by all that much. Not enough
to be worth the money until ...
Audio Research SP-14 'cause I bought it used. All things come to he
who waits, eh? Great phono section, enough controls for everything
and a bypass mode. I'd still be using it exclusively if the 120's
weren't balanced mode which brings me to
Audio Research LS2B I've heard ugly things ABOUT this preamp, but
never FROM it. Yes, one of the switches is stuck OFF, so I've
bypassed it, and another one is getting a bit cranky, but the sound
is very, very neutral. If I ever get a CD player with balanced outs
we'll see what it really does.
Mark Levinson (29?) anyway, the one with the opto-electronic volume
control. Perhaps more neutral than the ARCs, but I haven't seen one
used (not that I've looked). All Levinson gear seems hopelessly
overpriced to me - well, most high-end gear in fact, but Levinson
perhaps a bit more so.
Klyne (SK-5A?) A wonderful match in the system it was in. Even more
neutral than the Levinson. Not too many show up used, which either
means their owners aren't letting go, or they're all blowing up.
Probably not the latter.
-- Bob T.
david
a free amp test day. I took my (relatively) cheap HK in. The test
guy hooked it up and ran tests for f/r, s/n, etc. He was blown away
because the amp's noise floor was lower than that of his test
equipment. He said it tested better than anything he'd seen that day
($$$$$$$.) Wish I hadn't sold it (whine, whine.)
Carl/Lisa Van Camp
impressed the bejeezus out of me, I'd pick the Audionics CC-2. I worked
at a hi end dealer in the late 70's (back when I thought fun was more
important that earning a living). We sold lots of stuff that was highly
regarded, but when the CC-2 came in I finally figured out what people
were talking about when they said B&W speakers were the best. The CC-2
made the B&Ws just sing.
Going farther back, back when tubes were actually a sensible choice,
I've never lost respect for the H-K Citation II. Fantastic for it's
day.
Best,
Carl Van Camp
Lewis Brown
its day, there wasn't a sweeter sounding solid state amp, and it could
drive anything from Dynamics to ribbons to electrostats. Why did Onkyo
stop their entry into high-end? Had they followed up, the successor to
the M-510 could have been even better.
JA, I'm also curious.... Since the M-510 got such a good review in
Stereophile (vol. 8, no. 8), why didn't it make it into recomended
components? The Absolute Sound also gave it a very good review
Preamps: Counterpoint SA-3000--what a delicate-sounding bargain! Are
you listening, Michael Elliott? Audio Research LS-2: revealing,
punchy, neutral-- all in one small chassis!
Regards,
Lewis Brown
Jason C. Cotton
>I would like to hear from everyone so we can put together a list
>of the best amplifiers and preamplifier that have been available over the
>years.
I would nominate the Hafler 220 as one of the classic amps from
yesteryear. It was affordable, rugged, very smooth and musical,
and was even offered in kit form.
-Jason
Michael Presley
>If I had to choose only one, the amp that from the very first moment
>impressed the bejeezus out of me...
My first real hi-fi amp was a Stromberg-Carlson tube unit I bought from a
guy that lived in Germany. I don't even remember th model number, but talk
about tube sound--plenty of that "liquid" distortion people here go ga-ga
over.
But seriously, my favorite amp from yesteryear was an original Quad 405/33
combo I purchased in London in 1977. People either loved or hated it, yet
it had so many good things going for it. Small footprint with a "modern"
Bauhaus industrial design; impeccable construction; plenty of that "I'm part
of the exclusive club" high-end panache (like the Mark Levinson gear of the
day it featured replaceable plug in cards for different input devices-- you
needed special connectors albeit DIN and not Camac-- and the fuses were tiny
non standard thingys you could never find in the States). Coupled with a
pair of the newer time aligned near field monitors that were starting to
make an appearance in those days (such as the LS/3 5A) you had a bonified
high end mini-system.
As with all the other gear I ever owned, I wish I still had it. <g> Also,
reflecting back, if I had all the money I spent on hi-fi gear...I'd spend it
on hi-fi gear.
Michael
Daniel Dicker
Can I submit a few of my own??
Amps:
Krell KSA-50, KMA-100
Klimo Linnet Monos
Jadis JA-50 Monos
Pre-amps:
Rowland consummate 1 Mk2
AR sp-15
Klimo Merlin
This is some of the best stuff I ever heard.....let me know what happens.
Regards,
Dan
[quoted text deleted -- deb]
Vincent J. Julian, Jr.
if that thread ever gets started, how about the Fisher 500-C. I still
own one and it still sounds great (vintage 1964) !!
-Vince (dam...@earthlink.net)
Vincent J. Julian, Jr.
ones that sounded great with real efficient speakers. Vintage late
70's early 80's.
-Vince (dam...@earthlink.net)
Dutchtr827 wrote:
> It is time to burn up some more megabites of storage on this newsgroups hard
> drive. I have been listening to some good amps and preamps over the years. I
> remember that the first thing I learned about power amps was that simpler was
> better. As for preamps the same logic holds true. We all know the fewer
> components in the system the purer the sound. Most good preamps have special
> inputs that bypass the balance control to eilminate more junk for the signal to
> go through. I would like to hear from everyone so we can put together a list
> of the best amplifiers and preamplifier that have been available over the
mikew...@mcmail.com
vintage, but certainly extinct as of 2 months ago. Ok, ok - so
they've been replaced, virtually model-for-model, by the TAGMcLaren
hype-machine - but I think it's rather sad to see such a
well-respected UK brand vanish from the shelves. A quick search
through the archives hasn't turned up any discussion on this topic,
which surprises me (even in the US, Audiolab had something of a
following, did it not ?).
In particular, I'd pick out the 8000S integrated as something of a
benchmark in terms of sound quality and flexibility under 1000gbp,
and the 8000Q, which remains an outstanding line-level pre-amp
design, worthy of power partners well in excess of its own price-tag.
Mike.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Stewart Pinkerton
>I'd like to nominate the entire Audiolab 8000 series; not exactly
>vintage, but certainly extinct as of 2 months ago. Ok, ok - so
>they've been replaced, virtually model-for-model, by the TAGMcLaren
>hype-machine - but I think it's rather sad to see such a
>well-respected UK brand vanish from the shelves. A quick search
>through the archives hasn't turned up any discussion on this topic,
>which surprises me (even in the US, Audiolab had something of a
>following, did it not ?).
What's to discuss? TAG-McLaren opened up their moneybox, and Audiolab
vanished, to reappear with fancy new front panels and a hefty price
increase a couple of months later. Autocar (yes, Autocar!) today has
a short note about the new F3 range, noting that the intent is to
release F2 and F1 series in the future, at prices around 4 and 10
times the price of the F3 series.
Note that nothing at all is said about parts content or sound
quality, but the *prices* are already fixed! What more do you need to
know about the reality of 'high-end' audio? :-(
>In particular, I'd pick out the 8000S integrated as something of a
>benchmark in terms of sound quality and flexibility under 1000gbp,
>and the 8000Q, which remains an outstanding line-level pre-amp
>design, worthy of power partners well in excess of its own price-tag.
Absolutely, classic designs and will be sadly missed. To be fair, if
I'd been offered the kind of money Scotland and Swift must have been
offered for the Audiolab name, I'd have sold out too!
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Irwin H. Zack
>of the best amplifiers and preamplifier that have been available over the
>years. It would make great reference material ofr us all. From the great
>speakers of yesterday thread we have assembled a very nice list. Maybe soon we
>can put it up to a vote and find out where we all feel this equipment ranks.
Back in the 70's I bi amped a pro JBL system with a McIntosh MC2205
and a McIntosh MC 250. I still see the 2200 series being sold for
fairly high prices today. I remember that system provided a real
sense of emotional involvement with the music.
==============================
Irwin H. Zack iz...@home.com
Toronto Ontario Canada
tom brennan
Klipsch LaScalas :-). I used to turn it up until the clipping
indicators came on, LaScalas handled it too. You really aren't doing
The Ramones' "Commandos" right unless your rig can cruise at 120db.
The amp eventualy burned up using to drive my band's PA, should'a
used a DC300A. But it was a nice amp, I imagine lots of people here
must have used one.
Tom Brennan
Nousaine
heavily abusive use. Survived 4 house moves. Only amplifier I have used that
will take down a 20-amp house breaker before reaching full output into 4 Ohms.
Replaced power supply filter caps 5 years ago. Still functions perfectly
although level controls will need replacement soon.
The toplogy (circuit board attached to heat sink that serves as side of
amplifier chassis) is still common on amplifiers today although I doubt it was
invented at Heath. Extensive attention to avoidance of error and fault
conditions combined with full documentation and massive power output make this
the best amplifier I have ever owned. And that includes a current stable of 12.
CCSman
from AR that sounded more tube like then most solid state gear of its
vintage.
How about the original Adcom GFA555- Big bang for the buck.
Has anyone mentioned GAS Ampzilla?
Tim Groves
compared it to a modern naim 92.90 and I still prefer the cyrus - It's
on loan at the moment to my boss who had his wedding reception in his
big garden - two dj's bought along nasty big insensitive speakers
the amps didn't run out of steam - I have heard 300w PA systems that
couldn't handle this.
tim
John Karam
predecessor. I built mine from kit many years ago and still use it today,
although with minor modifications.
John
Jason C. Cotton <j...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<71n96n$f...@news01.aud.alcatel.com>...
Barry/Muriel Wilkinson/Turner-Wilkinson
man who patented simplicity, David Hafler . His first patent was the
transformer that went into every amplifier calling itself HI-Fi
(there were no solid state amps). then he designed the PAM(pre
amplifier mono) using circuits he designed and patented, along with
the models ll &lll amplifiers. skipping along to the stereo age the
classic stereo 70,(35/ch) again with patented circuits, which with
AR's AR-3's filled New York's Grand central station with music. the
preamp was the PAS. Essentialy 2 pam's on one board. last I saw an
old 70 can still get up to $250 US. which is more than the original
price. Also they came in kits. after they started building SS amps
many of course preferred the tubes, because of unknown distortions in
all SS amplifier's. He sold the company and went into exile to work
for B&O , when he came back he designed the Hafler 200 and continued
improving the line until up to his resignation early this decade.
followed by his death a few years ago.
Barry Wilkinson
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Email harvesters won't want this address
ab...@cadvision.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------On
Mon, Nov 2, 1998 13:16, Dutchtr827 <mailto:dutch...@aol.com> wrote:
>It is time to burn up some more megabites of storage on this
>newsgroups hard drive. I have been listening to some good amps and
>preamps over the years. I remember that the first thing I learned
>about power amps was that simpler was better. As for preamps the
>same logic holds true. We all know the fewer components in the
>system the purer the sound. Most good preamps have special inputs
>that bypass the balance control to eilminate more junk for the signal
>to go through. I would like to hear from everyone so we can put
>together a list of the best amplifiers and preamplifier that have
>been available over the years. It would make great reference
>material ofr us all. From the great speakers of yesterday thread we
>have assembled a very nice list. Maybe soon we can put it up to a
>vote and find out where we all feel this equipment ranks.
>May we all learn from the past and use the knowledge to improve the
Ned Carlson
<wilk...@cadvision.com> wrote:
>When it came to simpler is better nobody followed throught like the
>man who patented simplicity, David Hafler . His first patent was the
>transformer that went into every amplifier calling itself HI-Fi
If Herman Hosmer Scott, Frank McIntosh, and Avery Fisher
were still around, they might have a slight disagreement with that
statement.
Still, David Hafler sure was a big influence in the 1950's.
> skipping along to the stereo age the
>classic stereo 70,(35/ch) again with patented circuits, which with
>AR's AR-3's filled New York's Grand central station with music. the
>preamp was the PAS.
That's an anecdote I hadn't heard before.
Ned Carlson Triode Electronics "where da tubes are!"
2225 W Roscoe Chicago, IL, 60618 USA
ph 773-871-7459 fax 773-871-7938
12:30 to 8 PM CT, (1830-0200 UTC) 12:30-5 Sat, Closed Wed & Sun
http://www.triodeel.com
Your Start Page for Tube and Tube Amp info on the net...
http://www.triodeel.com/tlinks.htm
Mark Raile
Considered by many, to this day, as the pinnacle of ARCs storied
offerings (and probably true up until the recent VT and Reference
models).
For those with silicon sentiments. My vote goes to the Mark Levinson
ML-2. Quite simply an amp for the ages!
Regards
Mr. Steven L. Bender
GMT:
>
> When it came to simpler is better nobody followed throught like the
> man who patented simplicity, David Hafler . His first patent was the
> transformer that went into every amplifier calling itself HI-Fi
Excuse me... he patented the Transformer... ??? I don't think so.
Maybe you mean the Ultralinear Output Transformer concept, which wasn't
Hafler, but his partner Herb Keroes, who was, I believe, the engineer,
Hafler was the "business" partner.
.. He sold the company and went into exile to work
> for B&O , when he came back he designed the Hafler 200 and continued
> improving the line until up to his resignation early this decade.
> followed by his death a few years ago.
>
> Barry Wilkinson
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Gee, Barry... I spoke to Dave Hafler only a few months ago... so
sorry to hear he died a few years ago, I'll have to tell him about
that...
Steven L. Bender, Designer of Vintage Audio Equipment
Email: buq...@prodigy.com <or> SLBe...@juno.com
*** The BENDER-2pp. a Transistor to Tube Amplifier Rebuild -
Nuts&Volts Magazine. February / March / April 1997 ***
Web Page: http://pages.prodigy.com/BUQU35D <- use CAPS
" If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made
out of meat " ??? -Tom Snyder
Jester
>Adcom 555 Go ahead and snicker, but for the money it was THE
>affordable solution if you needed lots of power and pretty decent
>sound
A bit bright on the top end, but with plenty of muscle for the price,
I have to agree that the 555 and 555II are still one of the best
bargains for the money.
>Mark Levinson (29?) anyway, the one with the opto-electronic volume
>control. Perhaps more neutral than the ARCs, but I haven't seen one
>used (not that I've looked). All Levinson gear seems hopelessly
>overpriced to me - well, most high-end gear in fact, but Levinson
>perhaps a bit more so.
It is high priced, but not when you can find it in the used market -
then it becomes a bargain. The preamp I believe you are referring to
is the No. 28 - the 29 is a power amplifier.
Jester
Jester
largely overlooked by all the attention garnered by it's bigger brothers.
Smooth and sweet, detailed and dynamic, driving a varoety of speakers.
A bargain now in the used market.
Also, the ARC d-240mkII, Sumo Andromeda II & III (bang for buck), and those
old Fisher receivers (I know, not exactly just amplifiers - but they still
sound great!), tubed, not siliconed.
Jester
Dutchtr827 wrote in message <71l3ur$4rm$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
<snip>
Dutchtr827
that there were more then 20-30 good amps over the last 50 years.
How about the Heath W5M, W7M, Dynaco ST-70, McIntosh 240, 275, and
so on. These were all good sounding amps that are still sought after
today. Most of us have used these amps most likely still have a
few laying around just because we cant part with them. Some kind of
sentimental thing. If our wives would say its the stereo gear or me,
it would take a little while to come up with the answer :-) There
were also some great FET amps that sounded great. Cannot remember
the make or model numbers right now. I am sure that some of the
fanatics (I think we all know who they are) who know much more about
the design of amplifiers, then I, have some nominations. So please
lets get the ball rolling here with some more amplifiers.
The best sounds today was when the office door closed and I knew I
would not have to back until next Monday :-)
The best to all
Johann
TimmyP
Linn Intek integrated that sounded much better than my friend's 555. The
Intek was capable of higher sound levels as well, even though it only
benches at 50wpc.
TimmyP
Jester wrote in message <72agpk$j...@news01.aud.alcatel.com>...
Tony
the Phase Linear 400 was mentioned. I had one of these "powerful" amps.
It more than held it's own comparing it against my friends McIntosh
2105. I even had the opportunity to take it to one of McIntosh's amp
clinics where they benched tested your amp with you there watching
(anyone remember those days?). 200 watts a side was a lot of muscle back
then and it was more than able to power a pair of inefficient Bose 901's
to levels that would actually start to move air (Weather Report's
Birdland cut comes to mind). But alas... when I had the chance to
compare it to the new (at the time) Carver 1.5t, I went away with my
head down and my Phase 400 under my arm in sonic sadness. Soooo, I
bought a 1.5t (another great amp whether "purists" will admit it or not)
that lasted 10yrs of driving Acoustat 1+1's before it died (and it will
be sent to Carver to be fixed for the great price of only $175).
Jms ent
JBL SE460
Yamaha B1
Yamaha B2
ARC D75
HK Citation II
McIntosh MC30
Dyna Stereo 35
Revox A740
Sony TAN900
VinylRules
彦utterman OTLs
筆oscode 300, 600
百pectral DMA 50
Vinylrules
Larry Spadacini
mentioned. But, I find it odd that nobody
has recalled Crown's Power Line One
from about 1980. It put out 50w/c, and
had exquisite specs. Coupled with its
preamp, the Straight Line One, it was
very hard to beat.
Larry Spadacini
Bill C
writes:
>
> Msg-ID: <72snct$o3d$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>
> References: <72n7h9$12o$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>
> Posted: 17 Nov 1998 20:47:25 GMT
>
> Org. : AOL http://www.aol.com
Would the SAE 2400, 2500, 2600 make it to the list. Were thay designed by
J Bongiorgno ( spelling)?
GAS Ampzilla.
Larry Spadacini
I just found out about this news group,
and I would like to say that it is very
interesting. Many great amps were
mentioned, but nobody remembered
Crown's Power Line One. This one
Barry/Muriel Wilkinson/Turner-Wilkinson
is now an improvement on the carver, is not so surprising when one knows
that all three amps were produced by the one and only, the magnificient and
unabashed self promoter,
BOB CARVER,
who started the whole idea of monster SS amps producing clean sound.
Barry Wilkinson
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Mjzuccaro
It's true-AR used this in their ad campaign-a few AR speakers were used in
Grand Central Station for background music.Wonder if they played those 50's
stereo sound effect records of trains going back and forth?
Best,
Mike Zuccaro
Ike
and it's successor Sumo The Power. The both made
the Dayton Wrights XG8's sound sooooo sweet.
Tony wrote:
> I think that I am joining this thread a little late and don't know is
> the Phase Linear 400 was mentioned. I had one of these "powerful" amps.
> It more than held it's own comparing it against my friends McIntosh
> 2105. I even had the opportunity to take it to one of McIntosh's amp
> clinics where they benched tested your amp with you there watching
> (anyone remember those days?). 200 watts a side was a lot of muscle back
> then and it was more than able to power a pair of inefficient Bose 901's
> to levels that would actually start to move air (Weather Report's
> Birdland cut comes to mind). But alas... when I had the chance to
> compare it to the new (at the time) Carver 1.5t, I went away with my
Arthur Shapiro
Actually, if very vague memories are correct, they tended to play
chamber music and solo instrumental works. I only visited the room
once or twice, not being a New Yoiker, but I don't recall any big
orchestral pieces.
Of course, you couldn't hear much due to all the pedestrian traffic
and the trains.
No, seriously, it was a decent well isolated glass-enclosed room.
Must have cost a fair amount. It worked on me - I went out and
bought my first pair of decent speakers: AR5. I just couldn't cough
up the whopping $250 per side on a college student's non-income for
the AR3A.
Art