Opinions Wanted Re: ATC20 & ATC50 Active Monitors
kelso, gregory
I'm soliciting opinions on these 2 British Monitors. I'm particularly
interested in the Active versions. The 20 is biamped with 250/50 watts
per side. The 50 is triamped with 200/100/50 watts per side. I've
always been intrigued with the idea of a powered speaker with the
crossover done at line level and the drivers, crossover, amplifier and
box designed as an integrated unit. It seems like a more purist way to
design a speaker, with the each amplifier optimised for the driver
it's powering and the crossover taylored for the the individual drive
units and amplifier. If properly designed, it seems to me a speaker
like this would squeeze better performance out of its component parts
than an equivalent passive speaker. I also might be interested in
purchasing a used pair of either of these speakers. Thanks for any
input.
--
Greg Kelso
Music Cataloging Unit
Technical Services
University of Georgia Libraries
Athens, Ga. 30602
Internet address: GKE...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Stewart Pinkerton
"kelso, gregory" <GKE...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> writes:
>I'm soliciting opinions on these 2 British Monitors. I'm particularly
>interested in the Active versions. The 20 is biamped with 250/50 watts
>per side. The 50 is triamped with 200/100/50 watts per side. I've
>always been intrigued with the idea of a powered speaker with the
>crossover done at line level and the drivers, crossover, amplifier and
>box designed as an integrated unit. It seems like a more purist way to
>design a speaker, with the each amplifier optimised for the driver
>it's powering and the crossover taylored for the the individual drive
>units and amplifier. If properly designed, it seems to me a speaker
>like this would squeeze better performance out of its component parts
>than an equivalent passive speaker. I also might be interested in
>purchasing a used pair of either of these speakers. Thanks for any
>input.
Your speculation on the benefits of active drive is correct, they also
play very loudly with less apparent clipping distortion, since it's
rare for all three amps to clip simultaneously. The SCM50A is one of
the very finest speakers on the market, while the brand new SCM20slA
must be one of the great 'high-end' bargains, especially for those
with limited space.
The only downside of these speakers is that they are extremely
revealing, the 50 having more bass and a little more midrange detail.
As a result, they will ruthlessly show up any recording defect (many
studios use ATC speakers as main monitors), and you may find that some
favourite music becomes almost unlistenable, if the recording quality
is poor. If this unforgiving nature is not a drawvack, then I don't
think you'll find a better box speaker at less than twice the cost.
You may find the occasional 50 and 50A on the used market, but the
active version of the 20sl is brand new, so it's unlikely that there
will be any used ones available yet.
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
ASP Consulting |
(44) 1509 880112 |
Bob Ludwig
Dear Gregory,
I use the ATC50s at home and I like them a lot.
At our studio we use the ATC100s (a larger more rugged version) in
our editing/CD preparation room. We use a sub-woofer with the ATC
100s in the studio, at home I haven't felt the need for one.
Generally, I found the ATC 50s a more perfectly balanced speaker, but
the 100's have withstood hour after hour of use in a professional
edit room with no component replacement needed in almost 5 years.
Clients like them a lot, too.
Bob Ludwig
President
Gateway Mastering Studios, Inc.
--
Ian B. McLean
kelso, gregory wrote:
> If properly designed, it seems to me a speaker like this would
> squeeze better performance out of its component parts than an
> equivalent passive speaker.
I owned a pair of SCM100A's (same amps as the 50A's). My experience
with these was that the amps actually clouded detail (MOSFETS I
think), were too readily able to be mucked up with RFI/EMI
interference, and were far from resilient to the resonance issues of
being a part of the speaker cabinet.
The last two problems (RFI/EMI and resonance) I was able to remedy to
some degree by running the amps externally and 'caging' the amps,
however, these amps were, IMHO, far from high end in their
construction and parts. This may have also had some bearing on the
resulting sonic problems or poor sound staging, amp 'glare' and treble
resolution issues.
I'm told that the passive 100's (and 50's), when mated with the right
amps give a far better result. I could not be bothered. I found the
company very unhelpful to deal with.
In Australia, the active ATC speakers also lose their value an almost
reverse exponentiality. For example, SCM100A was $26,000 retail, 12
months later, you could pick up that same speaker for around $11,000!
So, second-hand you may find yourself a bargain relative to the new
price, but not relative to the MUSICAL result.
I can imagine that these speakers, in a monitoring sense could be, and
are, useful. However, IMHO, they are not a speaker for recreating the
musical event. There are few speakers in the world that do well as
great studio monitors and musical consumer speakers. Wilson is an
exception. Their speakers are designed to allow the recording
engineer to hear ALL aspects including sound staging, imaging etc. The
larger ATC speakers are far more limited in their abilities.
If you're intent on an English monitor, then you should consider
B&W. The 801's are fine speakers, and the 800's simply stunning.
No, I don't own Wilsons. At the moment I own VSR VR 4.5's.
Ian McLean
Roy Parrish
kelso, gregory <GKE...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> wrote in article
<65c70a$e...@eyrie.graphics.cornell.edu>...
> I'm soliciting opinions on these 2 British Monitors. I'm particularly
> interested in the Active versions. The 20 is biamped with 250/50 watts
> per side. The 50 is triamped with 200/100/50 watts per side. I've
> always been intrigued with the idea of a powered speaker with the
> crossover done at line level and the drivers, crossover, amplifier and
> box designed as an integrated unit. It seems like a more purist way to
> design a speaker, with the each amplifier optimised for the driver
> it's powering and the crossover taylored for the the individual drive
> like this would squeeze better performance out of its component parts
> than an equivalent passive speaker.
Yes indeed it most certainly does.
I have not heard the active 20s yet, but the 50s are amongst the best
loudspeakers you can buy. They are widely used in the recording industry
for monitoring classical recordings. I reckon they are perfect domestic
speakers. Not too big, plenty of power for accurate dynamics and the most
transparent mid-range you're likely to find anywhere. They are quite
expensive, but considering you get the power amps thrown in they are in
fact excellent value for money.
I am in the UK, but I believe the US importer is FlatEarth Audio,
1-888-653-5454,
1-203-387-0878, www.flatearthaudio.com, f...@ct1.nai.net
Roy.
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk
In article <65c70a$e...@eyrie.graphics.cornell.edu>, "kelso, gregory" <GKE...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> wrote:
>I'm soliciting opinions on these 2 British Monitors. I'm particularly
>interested in the Active versions.
I own a pair of (active) SCM100A's, so what follows might be regarded as
biased.
All ATCs are very accurate and neutral and can go very loud with minimal
distortion. A possible downside is that since they are so clean you might not
realise just how loud you're playing them. Several times I've finished an
evening of listening only to find when I switch off that my ears are ringing
slightly. They are also utterly revealing of source quality; some recordings
are rather unpleasant to listen to on ATCs. Note also that most vinyl doesn't
sound much cop out of ATCs; not unlistenable as such, but exposed for the
dog's dinner that it is.
The 20 is a fabulous modestly-sized speaker, in passive or active form. Beware
that the passive 20's need a monster amp to work at their best; now that the
active 20's are out, there's little point in the passives.
The 50 is the same only more so; it'll go a bit louder and deeper than the 20.
However, passive 50's should be avoided; getting suitable partnering amps is
tricky and unnecessarily expensive, and they'll still never sound as good as
the actives.
The 100 is much better value than the 50, as it's only about 25% more and has
significantly better performance. Some people prefer the sound of the 50,
which has a rather drier bass that on first aquaintance seems more articulate,
but is basically down to the fact that the 100 just has more bass. Another
thing is that while the 50 is pretty acceptable domestically, the 100 is
physically rather imposing in a typical lounge.
ATCs are not cheap, but for their performance they are cheap, if you see what
I mean.
Clive Backham
Capita Managed Services Ltd. (+44) 1442 872121
cl...@capita.nildram.co.uk
Saill White and/or Sean Streiff
From the description, and Stewart's high opinion, it seems that the
active versions are quite a wonder. What, pray tell, would these
lovelies cost (new) in the US?
-Sean
Larry
Roy Parrish wrote:
> kelso, gregory <GKE...@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> wrote in article
> <65c70a$e...@eyrie.graphics.cornell.edu>...
> > I'm soliciting opinions on these 2 British Monitors. I'm particularly
> > interested in the Active versions. The 20 is biamped with 250/50 watts
> > per side. The 50 is triamped with 200/100/50 watts per side.
[ quoted text deleted -- jwd ]
> Yes indeed it most certainly does.
> I have not heard the active 20s yet, but the 50s are amongst the best
> loudspeakers you can buy. They are widely used in the recording industry
> for monitoring classical recordings. I reckon they are perfect domestic
> speakers. Not too big, plenty of power for accurate dynamics and the most
> transparent mid-range you're likely to find anywhere. They are quite
> expensive, but considering you get the power amps thrown in they are in
> fact excellent value for money.
Flat Earth is the US Importer. They have a web page. Retail on the
passive SCM 50's is about $8,900.00. AMplified I expect that the
numbers nearly double - ouch! I think the cost doubles because the
price includes two 100 watt class "A" amplifiers and one 50 watt class
"A" amplifier.
Personally, I thought that the 20's sounded better than the 50's in
the rooms I have heard them in, I'm guessing here, because the rooms
were sufficiently large. I found the 10's better than the 20's in a
room smaller than the one the 50's were in.
francois millet
> Flat Earth is the US Importer. They have a web page. Retail on the
> passive SCM 50's is about $8,900.00. AMplified I expect that the
> numbers nearly double - ouch! I think the cost doubles because the
> price includes two 100 watt class "A" amplifiers and one 50 watt class
> "A" amplifier.
Referring to european prices, i think you may add roughly $1,200 for
the active model. The MOSFET-based amps are 200w, 100w and 50w, and,
as ATC says, "operate predominantly at class A with considerable
headroom available in class B if it is required".
My interpretation is that if you listen at 112db/w/1m continuous
(guaranteed specs), there is some class B operation <G>.
Toezmysoul
All of the posts in this thread haven't hit my newsreader yet so
please excuse me if I'm asking for information that has already been
provided, however, someone stated that the U.S. importer for ATC has a
web page. Would someone please post or email the URL? A search for
"flatearth/ATC/etc" didn't turn up their web page but turned up a lot
of specious hits.
Interesting that this thread popped up though, I've heard the ATC
monitors and loved them but I'd like opinions on using them in a home
theater/music setup in a relatively small room. Anyone tried this or
have any thoughts on it?
Thanks,
j.
Graham Gibson
Toezmysoul <toezm...@aol.com> wrote in article
<65sib6$s...@eyrie.graphics.cornell.edu>...
You can find ATC on the net at http://www.hhb.co.uk/atc.html
I've had a pair of active 50s for a couple of years and love them, but
you do have to be careful with room size. In small rooms with the
speakers pushed against the rear and side walls, the bass can become
overblown, leading to a slightly dull and "fat" sort of sound. My
advice would be to try the (active) 20s and 50s in your own room and
decide for yourself. The 10s, 20s, 50s, 100s - in fact, the entire
range - are all superb.
I'm not sure about prices in the 'States. I would guess that a pair of
active 50s would cost around $9,000. It all depends on the
distributer's mark up. Unfortunately, you have the same problem with
buying British equipment as we have buying American gear (inflated
prices). Active 50s are unbelievably good value in the UK, considering
what it would cost to put a comparable Wilson/Krell type system
together over here. Of course, ATCs are miles better than Wilsons
anyway :-)
I'd be happy to help if you want any more info.
Cheers,
Graham
All opinions expressed are solely those of the author and not of
Logica.