Great Speakers of Yesterday
Dutchtr827
some delightful speakers. I would like to hear from all of you who
participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
most. Here is my list:
Altec A7
Altec 19's
JBL 4343
JBL 4311
Ohm Walsh
Quad ESL
B&W 17
Enjoy your sounds the way they were meant to be heard. Through a
tube amp :-)
Best to all
Johann
Stewart Pinkerton
KEF Cresta
KEF Carlton
Lowther TP1
Tannoy GRF
Spendor BC1
B&W P2H
KEF104
JR149
Quad ESL-63
Yamaha NS1000M
Magneplanar MGIII
Apogee Duetta Signature
ATC SCM100A
JMlab Utopia
B&W N801
Enjoy your sounds the way they were meant to be heard - through a
powerful low-distortion amp!
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Dutchtr827
Magnepan Tymponi 1D
Celestion Ditton 662
B&W DM7
Lets not measure the quality of sound by the quantity of power, but
rather by the ability to reproduce music in space.
[ Let's also describe why one of these speakers was a favorite.
-- deb ]
The very best to all
Johann
Gary Rotter
featured Infinity two ways. The model was something like POS2000II.
When I bought my first real pair of speakers I went for the Infinity
Monitor Jr.
While the Monitor Jr speakers are not even close to today's high end
standards, I am still using them in a low end system that my three
year old son uses to play CDs.
Dutchtr827 wrote:
> Over the last three decades I have had the fortune to listen and own
> some delightful speakers. I would like to hear from all of you who
> participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
> most. Here is my list:
> Altec A7
> Altec 19's
> JBL 4343
> JBL 4311
> Ohm Walsh
> Quad ESL
> B&W 17
> Enjoy your sounds the way they were meant to be heard. Through a
> tube amp :-)
> Best to all
> Johann
Thomas Nulla
>Over the last three decades I have had the fortune to listen and own
>some delightful speakers. I would like to hear from all of you who
>participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
>most. Here is my list:
>
>Altec A7
>Altec 19's
>JBL 4343
>JBL 4311
>Ohm Walsh
>Quad ESL
>B&W 17
KLH electrostatic (model 9?) I remember as being head-and-shoulders above
eveything else of its time in the things that matter most to me. Too bad it
cost about half my annual income at the time...
Wish I could hear one today, to know if it's just fond memories or whether
it really was that good.
>Enjoy your sounds the way they were meant to be heard. Through a
>tube amp :-)
Hah! *Which* tube amp?
>Best to all
>
>Johann
Happy listening,
Thomas <now playing: Ozric Tentacles, "Erpland">
http://www.io.com/~nulla (high fidelity and miscellany)
SETI at your home, John Dunlavy r.a.* archive to 17 July 1998
"The Universe is the Practical Joke of the General at the Expense of
the Particular", quoth Frater Perdurabo, and laughed.
~EJP~
>Over the last three decades I have had the fortune to listen and own
>some delightful speakers. I would like to hear from all of you who
>participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
>most
Well, they might not be considered THAT old, but it was about 10
years ago.
Acoustat Spectra 11's. One of my first exposures to high end audio.
They had to be one of the all time bargains for about $1000.00.
I would have bought them except I was living in an apartment at the
time, and just didn't have the room. About the time I bought my
house, the company went belly up.
I was pissed.
>Enjoy your sounds the way they were meant to be heard. Through a
>tube amp :-)
I do! :-)
Best Regards,
~EJP~
confidential
posts are very outdated with their little clip-type connectors) are
the Advance A+....I bought a pair and the company went out of
business! Very "open" with good soundstage and well balanced freq.
response. Anyone else ever have these?
Dan Kwok wrote in message <71d83e$na2$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
Tom Alaerts
>JBL 4311
Whoa! classic JBL monitors! I actually don't know exactly which
models these are, I always forget the type numbers but I loved the
ones I've heard. My favorite must be the JBL 4435 (didn't forget that
nr), an awesome and gigantic (as big as a deepfreezer) monitor
featuring 2 38cm woofers and a biradial horn. I once was in a studio
where a saxophonist played a tune for a commercial. Very loud, this
instument in a confined space. Well, afterwards the 4435's reproduced
this at full, realistic volume. No difference could be heard. What
more can we want? A very much smaller speaker of course.
>Quad ESL
a friend of mine enjoys a pair in pristine condition. Incredible,
this 1955 design. The midrange is the best I ever heard and very well
possibly the best ever done. The most expensive speaker I heard was a
Witt. Excellent of course, but while I didn't do a real comparison,
it seemed that the vintage quad was still more refined. What a
fantastic brand.
Tom
NESTEGARD
KLH 9's, two per side
3-D Acoustics (sub-sat system) cheap but great
DavidKak
writes:
>Altec A7
>Altec 19's
>JBL 4343
>JBL 4311
>Ohm Walsh
>Quad ESL
>B&W 17
>
Dahlquist DQ-10
Spendor BC1
Linn Isobarik (DMS/PMS)
Snell Type A
Martin-Logan Sequel
Quad ESL/ESL 63
Hill Type I Plasmatronics (tweeter section only)
Rogers (et al) LS3/5A
Rectilinear 3
Dynaco A25
Advent Small/Large
IMF Studio IV (? - the large transmission line unit with a KEF B139 woofer)
.... and I'm sure many more I can't remember/think of at this moment
Dave Kakenmaster
Bob Trosper
>
> Over the last three decades I have had the fortune to listen and own
> participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
There have been a lot, but let's see how many K-lines the old brain can
activate ...
Mini-monitors
All of these did what mini's do best - disappear completely and leave an
always surprisingly large sound stage with exceptionally coherent image
placement (if not size). Timbral accuracy, within the frequency
limitations of the speaker, was uniformly very good. At some point I
lost interest in less than full-range speakers, so I haven't been
keeping up.
The Rana concrete block speakers
Celestion SL-600 (is that model right?)
Spendor
Various Missions
Floor-standing dynamics
Vandersteen II and III - for the money, still one of the best. Over time
I have come to believe that the Vandersteen sound is just a little TOO
pleasant to be realistic. Still the speaker I would recommend with the
fewest misgivings to the beginning audiophile.
B&W 801 and 800 - The 801 is one of more ACCURATE speakers, in my
opinion, perhaps too much so for me. Always sounded just a touch
analytical. Still a great speaker, however. The 800 impressed me much as
the the IRS Beta, below.
IRS Beta - One of the best reproductions of large scale dynamics (along
with the Cello) I have ever heard. When someone says "frightening bass"
or "startle factor" I think of these. And it was the first dynamic
"super speaker" I had ever heard.
Cello whatever they are - Heard these in New Orleans in an all Cello
system. Only system I've ever heard that was as clean on an orchestral
climax as the live orchestra and actually louder. Hope I didn't damage
my hearing. There's something about turning it up louder and LOUDER and
L-O-U-D-E-R and NEVER reaching compression before your ears give out
that's truly fascinating.
Ribbons and Magneplanars
Apogee Duettas - These were in the first true high-end system I ever
heard at Audition Audio in Salt Lake City, Utah. I used to drag people
in just to hear these things. Perhaps a SLIGHTLY fat bass, but still one
of the top performers in my opinion.
Magnepan MGIIIa's - One of the all time greats, in my opinion, in
real-world rooms. I have heard the Tympani IV's, but never in a great
venue. I owner the IIIa's for years, and for sheer musical involvement,
if not ABSOLUTE maximum dynamics these are STILL one of the great
bargains in high-end audio. Buy a used pair and throw out those
dynamics.
Electrostatics
Martin-Logan CLS's - Vexing, fussy, bass-limited, but they do jazz
combo, chamber music and vocals SO well. A great speaker to have if you
can afford TWO systems.
Soundlab A1's, Soundlab Ultimates - I have the A1's and they're the
speaker that moved me off the Maggies. True full range (in the usual
meaning of that term) electrostatics. Image size, soundspace, image
placement, timbral correctness and balance - now, if I could only afford
the upgrade to new electronics, panels and spacers :=). Perhaps if
someone would integrate a ribbon driver AND an electrostatic ...
A Final Word
These are by NO means the only speakers I've ever heard, but they're the
ones I'm familiar enough with to talk about, and think fondly enough of
to reminisce over. I've heard newer ones (Avalons, Hales, Watts/Puppies)
but I'm not so actively involved now in seeking out the latest and
greatest. Perhaps I've reached that point as dog-owners do, where I've
come to resemble my system so much, that nothing else quite seems to
fit.
-- Bob T.
Arthur Shapiro
for decades to come is the incomparable Joly Queen.
I normally don't let aesthetics govern my choice of audio gear, but even
a jaded audio nerd has to admit that there was a definite synergy
between the unusual sonics and the, uh, anatomically correct styling of
the speaker itself.
I don't think the Queen is still in the product line, but those of you
wondering what in Arthur's name I'm babbling about can get some idea by
looking at the picture of the smaller "Princess" model at
www.joly.com.tw/3.htm.
I must confess to never having been high enough in the audio pyramid to
even hope to own a Joly product, but perhaps those few lucky owners
could brag about their audio savvy.
Art
ROBERT C. LANG
>
> I would like to hear from all of you who participate in this newsgroup which
>
> Altec A7
> Altec 19's
> JBL 4343
> JBL 4311
> Ohm Walsh
> Quad ESL
> B&W 17
>
> tube amp :-)
>
>
> Johann
I agree with your list (although not always with a tube amp. More on
that later). I certainly agree with you on the Ohm Walsh, the Ohm F I
presume. The F's were a very special speaker for me. What was so great
about the F was that it was one of the few speakers that truly stood out
in relation to competing systems of the time. Friends use to come with
their records and were in total awe of those speakers, especially since
you could be practically anywhere in the room and experience high
quality sound. When Ohm introduced the replacement Walsh 4 and 5 they
touted them as being improvements on the F. And I'm sure they are but
they simply don't stand out in relation to the competition like the F
did.
The Ohm F's were a lot more controversial than they should have been
because many
users/reviewers simply did not know how to set them up or provide proper
amplification. I didn't either. I called the manufacturer, talked to
some technicians
(more than one) and learned a tremendous amount about the loudspeaker
and a little bit about speaker design in general.
I remember TAS did a review of the OHM F and had them placed against the
back wall driven by a tube amplifier, in a small room. A call to the
manfacturer would have informed them that the speakers should best be 4
ft
from any wall and driven driven by a high voltage, high damped solid
state amp. (The Ohm F is an exception to speakers that sound best driven
with a tube amplifier).
I purchased the SAE 2500 after talking to the people at Ohm. When I
first purchased the F's I had a 180 watt Sansui intergrated amp. But the
current limited Sansui could not properly drive the voltage hungary F's.
While the Sansui was 180 watt into 8 ohms it was only 190 watts into 4
ohms; the F's presented a fairly stable impedance draw of 3.7 to 4 ohms.
So I
called Ohm and talked to a few techs. They recommended either the SAE
2500, the GAS Ampzilla, and one couple of others. Interestingly,
they specifically recommended against any tube amp because the damping
factor
was too low. I remember them saying that a damping factor of a least 10
was
required. The way it was explained to me that any damping factor over 10
was superfluous. (10 to 1000 is a very insignficant improvement, but an
increase of say,
9 to 10 is a very significant improvement). While many amps were quoting
damping
factors of several hundred most tube amps were quoting damping factors
of 8 and below (MacIntosh rated all their amps tube and solid state at
5); not nearly adequate to control the Walsh driver. For this same
reason no tube amp was recommended.
I last listened to my F's about 5 years ago when I sent my Nestorovic
16's (the satellites) back to the maunfacturer to be updated. However,
it was not the same experience as when I purchased them in the late
70's. Full range they sounded fine, but I wasted a lot of time trying to
mate them with the Nestorovic subs which I had not returned for
updating. By the time I came close to making it work right with the subs
the Nestorovic satellites were returned and the F's went back to the
basement where they remain.
Of course, the Nestorovic's are superior to the F's in almost every way.
But at 10 times the cost!
Robert C. Lang
Dutchtr827
monitor series with Alnico magnets. 15" woofer, 10" midrange, High
end horn with a lens and a super bullet tweeter. These were in
Walnut. Weighed 183 lbs each. Stood about 4 feet tall, 3 feet wide
and 18" deep. Sounded awsome. There was a note in the manual that
stated they could preduce sound presure levels (117dB) that would do
permanent hearing damage. They were very acurate and efficient,
about 93 dB I think. My wife really liked these monsters. Wifes
noramally do not like large speakers unles they really sound good.
Why I sold them I will never know. A real nice guy from Wisconsin
drove down to pick them up.
The 4311 is the control monitor that is was used in many studios for
near field. Very acurate but a little harsh. The legendary JBL
L-100 came from this version. Also, some of the last Alnico magnet
systems. Most folks have no idea what that Alnico magnet does for
a speaker. The Alnico magnet is very strong for its size and
delivers more concentrated magetic flux lines for the voice coil then
any other magnet ever made. That is the reason so many collectors
are seeking these speakers. They know the Alnico speakers are more
sensitive and respond faster then any other speaker system. Also,
Alnico magnets are bringing a good buck on the open market. About $30
a pound. May approach gold prices if we wait long enough. I still
have the 4311's that I keep on the shelf in a controlled area.
There may be good imitations, but the best sounds are still available
from electrons moving through a vacuum.
Johann
Charlie Graves
>Over the last three decades I have had the fortune to listen and own
>some delightful speakers. I would like to hear from all of you who
>participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
>most. Here is my list:
>Altec A7
>Altec 19's
>JBL 4343
>JBL 4311
>Ohm Walsh
>Quad ESL
>B&W 17
To my ears, the Infinity Servo Statik I was a quantum leap in speaker
technology, particularly in the bass. It was the first system I heard
that used a servo amplifier to control distortion in the bass driver.
What a revelation it was to feel the depth and visceral impact that
one would expect from an 18" driver, but without sounding like it was
always lagging one or two steps behind the rest of the music, which
emanated from ES panels with many of the sonic virtues of the Quad
ESL...
I'm glad, however, I couldn't afford them at the time; they
apparently were not very reliable...
~CG
Vincent J. Julian, Jr.
vintage. If I remember, they had a marble top with front firing
midrange and tweeter. About 3.5 feet tall, and about 2.5 ft. in
diameter (top). They looked real good and were very heavy and
expensive (at the time). Also, what about the big Bozaks from the
same era??
-Vince (dam...@earthlink.net)
[quoted text deleted -- deb]
ch3 & mjh
Double pair of KLH 9's - great bass and mids, the highs were slightly
brittle. I tried using RTR ESR 6 tweeters in place of Janzen, and
got a somewhat smoother sound.
Infinity ServoStatik 1A - marvelous mids and highs, with more than
enough bass. I remember everyone wanting to hear the Mercury 1812
and hear the walls rattle from the cannon shots. Unfortunately,
never could get all the hum out of the bass amp/xover - could hear 60
Hz hum when nothing playing.
Joel Tatelman
Regarding "great speakers of yesterday", I suppose my favorites are
three: 15" Tannoy Monitor Golds in custom 8-10 cu. ft. cabinets; Altec
model 19s and a three-way Electro-Voice system (15" bass driver,
horn-loaded mid- and treble-) the model no. of which I no longer
remember. Right now I've got a pair of JBL 4412C Control Monitors.
They're not in the same league as the three aforementioned, but for 500
bucks, which is all I can afford these days, they're pretty good if
"loud and clear" is important.
Generally, I've always preferred the wide dynamic range and "presence"
afforded by high-efficiency, heavy-magneted of the type produced by
Tannoy and similar manufacturers. Presently am saving up for a pair of
Tannoy GWF Memory speakers.
Dutchtr827 wrote:
> Over the last three decades I have had the fortune to listen and own
> some delightful speakers. I would like to hear from all of you who
> participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
> most. Here is my list:
>
> Altec A7
> Altec 19's
> JBL 4343
> JBL 4311
> Ohm Walsh
> Quad ESL
> B&W 17
>
Fred Marchee
forget the Klipschorn, first sold in 1943, and it's still available!
See you,
Fred.
Fred Whitlock
available of course) and the EV Patrician. Oh, of course, the AR3a (still
have a pair in my basement.) Good listening.
Fred
AudioNow!
http://www.audionow.com
Charlie Graves wrote in message <71fge9$c...@news01.aud.alcatel.com>...
>On 29 Oct 1998 23:29:08 GMT, dutch...@aol.com (Dutchtr827) wrote:
>
>>Over the last three decades I have had the fortune to listen and own
>>some delightful speakers. I would like to hear from all of you who
>>participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
>>most. Here is my list:
>
>>Altec A7
>>Altec 19's
>>JBL 4343
>>JBL 4311
>>Ohm Walsh
>>Quad ESL
>>B&W 17
>
Clownie
state current they kicked. When my came, my neighbors thought each was a
refrigerator based on size of boxes, wondered why we needed 2 refrig's. Sold
them to a friend who won't sell them back...
Dutchtr827
am using them currently and cannot say enough good things about them Some
people say they are very colored. Some people say they are the best speaker
they ever listened to. If they are colored then maybe all speakers should
sound like this, or maybe what they claim about other speakers as being neutral
is really another term for really saying they are lacking. I may have to bring
out the HP spectrum analyzer and the calibrated mike and see if they are true
to form. I have always felt the best place to test the speaker is in their
present location and not in a chamber. I do not think my wife would like the
looks of a chamber in the living room :-) Tannoy over the years has presented
the audiophile with some wonderful speakers. It is a shame they do not do more
advertising so more people can truly learn more about these great speakers.
The best sounds that please the ear come from what we love the most , our
childeren at play.
Johann
Dutchtr827
in the horn.
Bozak Concert Grands. Dynamics that would leave you senseless
Janszen some of the first hybrid electrostatics. great sound for the
money. The set I has was some of the best sounds for the time for
$400.
Infinity IRS Beta. if you had the bucks and the room to place these
beast they would leave you wondering how you were going to improve on
this system.
The MArtin Logans are always a favorite. I was never disapointed
with them. Great detail in the sound stage.
And this addition is for Gordon :-)
The Carver Amazing series. I Auditioned these speakers several times
and was always impressed with them. On of the few Carver products I
ever truly liked. I will have to check up on Bob's products some
more. It appears he might have brought some of his equipment out of
the mud.
The very best sounds to all. Long live Triode amplification.
Johann
Rick Young
> Over the last three decades I have had the fortune to listen and own
> some delightful speakers. I would like to hear from all of you who
> participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
> most. Here is my list:
> Altec A7
> Altec 19's
> JBL 4343
> JBL 4311
> Ohm Walsh
> Quad ESL
> B&W 17
> Enjoy your sounds the way they were meant to be heard. Through a
> tube amp :-)
> Best to all
> Johann
Well, they aren't exactly antique, but they are no longer available,
so here goes:
I have 3D Acoustics '3D6' satellites driven by a low-powered tube
amp, with a '10B' subwoofer driven by a Yamaha A-700 SS integrated
... I think they sound very good for the $500 system price I paid in
~1983 ... A few other folks have called them 'an all-time great
audio bargain' or some such; I cannot disagree. - Rick.
Alan Braswell
>I got my start in HI-FI by listening to my friends system that
>featured Infinity two ways. The model was something like POS2000II.
>When I bought my first real pair of speakers I went for the Infinity
>Monitor Jr.
My first high end speakers were the Infinity Monitor II's
from the same line you referenced. This was back when Infinity was
its own little company with Arnold Nudell at the helm, a different
Infinity back then.
Add to the list of the Great Speakers of Yesteryear the
Acoustat Model III's and IV's. I still very much enjoy my III's
(now Medallion/B modified) after living with them for the last 15
years.
Regards,
Alan
abra...@worldnet.att.net
Alan Braswell
Houston, Texas
FZman
system I ever heard or saw. I'd also nominate the big Snells (A3, i
think?) for symphonic music, and the shahinian obelsik and diapasons
(also for orchestral music) -- they are both still inproduction, but
have been around for a while.
NESTEGARD
I bought mine about that same time. For several years I ran them
with a Velodyne ULD15 subwoofer, and they were great. Beautiful wide
and deep soundstage with a very open sound. They replaced some
AR3a,s which were good in their day, but no comparison to the 3D
Acoustics. I still use them as my second system, but it took me
about 5 years to find an affordable replacement (which were Dunlavy
SC1's) To bad the company didn't last, they would be making great
speakers today.
Honrado S. Lopez
speakers it was state of the art 20 years ago.
ROBERT C. LANG
>
> How about the Dahlquist DQ10? With a GAS Ampzilla driving the
> speakers it was state of the art 20 years ago.
I don't know about state of the art but it was a good speaker for the
money, around $800 in 1978, if I recall. One thing for sure, it was the
most beloved speaker of the era in the audiophile press. They loved that
speaker. I had the Dahlquist for a 30 day trial during my search for a
system. After auditioning about a dozen systems. I narrowed it down to
three, the KEF 105, the Acoustat X, and a large Beveridge model. I had
just about talked my wife into the outlandishly expensive Beveridge when
I, quite by accident, stumbled on a dark horse that I enjoyed much
better than all the rest, the Ohm F. I was pretty confident of my
choice at the time because I was at the top of my music listening skills
back then being a season ticket holder to the San Francisco, Oakland,
and San Jose Symphonies. Also, a friend of mine was a DJ at the local
soul station, KSOL, so we got free tickets to all the Soul concerts that
came to the Bay Area. I do wish I could have gotten my hands on the GAS.
It was one of the amps recommended to me by Ohm to drive the Ohm F. I
settled on the SAE 2500 because it was also recommended by Ohm and it
was a lot easier to find it on the West Coast than the GAS. Actually,
the SAE served me well for many years. I finally got rid after I had to
locate it near me in the listening room; the fan drove me crazy.
Robert C. lang
Dutchtr827
Darn,I forgot, I had the 3D's with the woofer also and cannot disagree that
for the price they were some of the best. The tweeter they used is what made
the system. I have found over the years that some of the best sounds I have
heard from a two way or three way system was with a silk dome tweeter. These
tweeters were made by Polydax in France. 3d, Polk, Audible Illusions just to
name a few all used this tweeter. They really put out highly detailed full
sounding sound with a very strong presence. I still have a few of these
tweeters laying around. Maybe someday I will put them in a system. Hmmm. I
have some AR93's that could use a boost. They would sound great in them.
The AR3's were also a great speaker system. Built like a rock and for the
time was one of the best speakers for the money. I still have a pair (oops, I
threw the cabinets away but kept the drivers).
Anyway, so many people have responded both through the newsgroup and
through email that I have been pleased there are so many people out there that
remember these great speakers. Lately when I have gone to the high end shop
to listen to some of the new speakers, I have heard harsh sounding units.
As a matter of fact they were giving me a headache. I would like to hear
other peoples opinion on this. I just want to make sure I am not being overly
critical.
The best to all in the way of sounds.
Johann
TEAShea
>and was always impressed with them. On of the few Carver products I
>ever truly liked. I will have to check up on Bob's products some
>more.
The new issue of Stereophile announces that Bob has signed a letter
of intent to become re-involved with Carver and that it might be
combined with Sunfire in the future. He certainly can be commended
for not being a sheep, following the same road as everyone else.
Tom Shea
- TEA (Tom)
Stewart Pinkerton
>How about the Dahlquist DQ10? With a GAS Ampzilla driving the
>speakers it was state of the art 20 years ago.
Oh no, let's not be getting into *that* kind of pushfight in this
thread! Let's just remember speakers we really enjoyed, otherwise
someone will point out that the Quad ESL was everything the DQ-10
tried to be...........
Oh no it wasn't, oh yes it was...............
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Tom Alaerts
>The JBL 4343 is a large studio monitor. It was one of the last
>monitor series with Alnico magnets. 15" woofer, 10" midrange, High
from your description, I think I know which speakers these are. I believe
that nowadays Alnico is reserved for military usage.
Actually, does anyone know why it is so expensive?
I would also be sorry if I sold the 4343's! Anyway, if it's a consolation,
the much applauded JBL S2600 and S3100 seem to be worthy successors of the
myth. These have the special Everest-horn tweeter/midrange. Unfortunately, I
have still not heard these.
ciao,
Tom
Bruce Abrams
I don't recall the model (Lotus SE?), but recall that it's an
extremely efficient 16 ohm load designed for use with low powered
S.E.T. amplifiers.
Tom Alaerts wrote in message <71l4da$5q0$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
*snip*
>that nowadays Alnico is reserved for military usage.
>Actually, does anyone know why it is so expensive?
*SNIP*
>ciao,
>
>Tom
>
Phil Anderson
"state of my house" for well over twenty years now. I
expected to receive my redesigned GAS Ampzilla back from
designer James Bongiorno today, but UPS tracking tells me it
went from Santa Barbara, CA on October 26 to "CACH, IL" (I
am in Peoria, IL) on October 29, to "LA-Grande Vista, CA" on
November 2.
I think UPS owes me Frequent Flyer miles for the annoyance.
Phil Anderson
philan...@prodigy.net
Honrado S. Lopez wrote in message
<71ko6f$g...@news01.aud.alcatel.com>...
eri...@batelnet.bs
I too was smitten by the Fulton Js and I still rank them as one of the best I
have heard. Bass that flapped the sleeves of my shirt from 15 feet away! And
those electrostatic tweeters (I think they were ESR 6s ) sounded lovely. The
demo record of choice back then was the Sheffield Lincoln Myorga and Friends
ll and the cut to hear was "From Menagio to Belagio". Good Stuff!!
My other choices for great speakers of yesteryear would be in no particular
order:
Kef 105 ll Quad Esl 57 AR LSTs ( I know, no self respecting audiophile would
be caught dead near 'em but I have Quad ESl 63s and I still like the LSTs so
sue me!) Advent Larger (The original - Loved the bass, everything else was
mediocre) K-Horns (See comment for Advent)
BTW I have never heard a JBL speaker that was worth diddly.
Finally, I have been reliably informed that solid state amplification is/was
an insidious plot by the communists to weaken the West by degrading their
appreciation of fine musical reproduction. Heh! Heh!
ESTG.
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Eternal Providence And justify the ways of God to Men." From John Milton's
"Paradise Lost".
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Stewart Pinkerton
Wilson Benesch also use Alnico magnets in their new speaker, to
provide a smaller magnet giving greater 'free space' behind the cone.
The price is/was largely due to the price of cobalt, and to the very
small quantities now being produced.
AudioMaven
recall the model (Lotus SE?), but recall that it's an
extremely efficient 16 ohm load designed for use with low powered S.E.T.
amplifiers.
>Tom Alaerts wrote in message <71l4da$5q0$1...@agate.berkeley.edu>...
>*snip* that nowadays Alnico is reserved for military usage. Actually, does
>anyone know why it is so expensive?
<<Wilson Benesch also use Alnico magnets in their new speaker, to provide a
smaller magnet giving greater 'free space' behind the cone. The price is/was
largely due to the price of cobalt, and to the very small quantities now being
produced.>>
Actually, Alon has been using the Alnico magnets in their drivers for
several years now. The first speaker using this technology was the
Phalanx which debuted at the NY Hi-Fi show and soon thereafter in the
smaller Adrianas - both of which we covered over a year ago in
Ultimate Audio. Alon's most recent speaker using Alnico is the
Circes, which ended up being a smaller version of the Phalanx.
(Actually, I'm not sure that the Lotus uses the Alnico drivers).
Myles Astor
Publisher
Ultimate Audio magazine
www.ultimateaudio.com
Stewart Pinkerton
>Finally, I have been reliably informed that solid state amplification is/was
>an insidious plot by the communists to weaken the West by degrading their
>appreciation of fine musical reproduction. Heh! Heh!
DEAD RIGHT! All those Sovtek, Golden Dragon and Svetlana tubes are
really just glass bottles with transistors hidden in the bases. Tube
fans are just too awestruck by the heater glow to notice! :-)
NESTEGARD
I remember being blown away by the sound of JBL Harsfield (singular
because I think this was about 1957, before stereo records). It was
a monster, about the size of K-horns. There were some other huge
speakers in those days by Electrovoice with 30 inch woofers,
Partrician I think was the name, that sure put out some bass. Oh, I
just remebered some great Wharfedales with sand filled cabinets and
upward firing tweeters that had a fairly spacious and open sound as
my failing memory tells me. One advantage of being old is that you
have seen almost the whole history of audio!
john001
My all time best pair of speakers I owned was the second pair I ever
built.
They were a 3 way using two 8.5" very stiff paper cone woofers from
Olsen's, Had a Telydyne label on them. These were mounted push pull
one directly under the other, off to the side so that the center of
the voice coils lined up vertically. Cabinet volume was around 1.7
ft^3 sealed and stuffed pretty full.
A 5.25" Peerless TOW125F mounted to some PVC fittings glued together
to form a ube some 10" long if memory serves was glued to the top and
a peerles 1" dome tweeter to its side. A small hole was melted into
the center of the dome ala Polk Audio and their monitor series.
Absolutly awsome sound. These speakers sounded fantastic, everyone
who ever heard them always walked away with a smile. The bass was
good into the 30's and was suprisingly full, the mid range was full
bodied and the highs were very smooth. The only thing that was better
were my brother in laws Dayton Wrights. These speakers amazed me at
low levels staying very balanced and when cranked quite hard with
some pretty serious amplification they rocked. They were responsible
for some damn good party music, used in a station wagon for a while,
and followed me 2 years into the military. Alas the woofer is a thing
of the past and peerless doesn't make that woofer with a foam
surround any more.
Since then the only pair of speakers I've owned that I liked that
much were the Maggies I had and recently sold and the JM Labs Magens
I sold a few years ago.
John Kramer
Dutchtr827 wrote:
> I forgot to add a few speakers:
>
> Magnepan Tymponi 1D
> Celestion Ditton 662
> B&W DM7
>
> Lets not measure the quality of sound by the quantity of power, but
> rather by the ability to reproduce music in space.
>
> [ Let's also describe why one of these speakers was a favorite.
> -- deb ]
>
> The very best to all
>
> Johann
tom brennan
in a single cabinet with curved front to reflect the sound to the
listener. I heard these once and liked them, a picture is at Tom
Dunker's Horn Speaker Homepage. Other great unmentioned vintage
speakers are the Altec 604-605 Duplexes, Altec 755, Jensen Imperial,
Lowthers, EV Sentry III & IV, Klipsch LaScala and Cornwall, Dynaco
A-25 and that big electrostat that Crown used to make. Oh yeah, that
15" RCA co-ax monitor (LC1A?) and various Western Electric and RCA
theater systems, which were (and still are) used in some fanatic's
homes.
Tom Brennan
Steven Johnson
:....... and the F's went back to the basement where they remain.
A sad fate for such wonderful speakers. I'll bet you have all kinds
of things you could do with that basement space. In appreciation of
the effort you made in composing your excellent post, I'd be
delighted to come over and haul them off :-)
Alas, I've heard but never owned Fs. I've had Walsh 4s for circa 12
years and they are one of few possessions I have which I've never
wished to or consider upgrading or replacing. I picked up a couple
Walsh 3s used a few years ago to go with them.
I don't have the ears that most who lurk here have, but in the spirit
of the original post I will mention the predecessors to my Ohms,
still in use and sounding fine. They are ElectroVoice Interface As,
one of the early renditions of passive woofer designs. I recall in
the late 70s they had a crisp clean open sound not shared by anything
near their modest price, and I think they still sound dandy today.
Steve Johnson
Thom Middlestadt
amazing, but then I was pretty new to the high-end at the time. They
were definitely unique. 6- 6 1/2 woofers and 16- 1" dome tweeters per
side in a tall cabinet. Never did meet anyone that had ever seen or
heard of them.
Thom
__________________________________________
Thom Middlestadt
bigHEAD brewery
http://members.delphi.com/BOHAY/index.html
__________________________________________
tom brennan
mining business went down the tubes after some big trouble in Zaire.
I remember that Altec and EV had an extra surcharge cost on their
drivers at that time while they redesigned for ferrite magnets. EV,
Altec and JBL redesigned their products with no apparent loss in
sound quality ( I was using lots of EV stuff then and never thought
the 1824M inferior to the 1823). TAD and Lowther use Alnico but look
at the prices, a 1" throat TAD compression driver goes for $800 U.S.
This has all caused the growing of an Alnico cult, especially among
the hornys, who can argue for hours the merits of alnico vs. ferrite
Altec 288s. The alnico drivers were prettier though, especially those
stove-crackle finish JBLs.
Tom Brennan
ROBERT C. LANG
>
> ROBERT C. LANG (lan...@pacbell.net) wrote:
>
> :....... and the F's went back to the basement where they remain.
Steven Johnson wrote:
>
> A sad fate for such wonderful speakers.
============================================================================
The Ohm F was a remarkable loudspeaker capable of a realism of musical
reproduction which in some ways cannot be duplicated by currently
available systems. While I have not used them for about a decade they
served me well for over a decade. I would have a very difficult time
parting with them; so I keep them in the basement.
My sentimental attachment probably stems in part from how hard I worked
to find the right speakers. I was really intent on finding first rate
speakers to replace my AR3a's and started my search a full year for
making my purchase, long before I knew of the existence of the F. That
year I went to over 20 classical concerts at three Bay Area symphony
orchestras as well as numerous soul music concerts (free tickets from a
DJ friend) in an attempt to have live music as my primary reference. I
listened to numerous speakers and actually brought several home on a
trial basis.
Actually, as the year progressed I found myself leaning heavily toward
electrostatics such as those from Acoustat, Dayton Wright, Beveridge,
and the like. I had never heard electrostatics before I began my search.
Then I stumbled on the on the Ohm F which was not widely distributed on
the West Coast (Infinity's and JBL's were everywhere). Of course the F
was not an electrostatic, but shared some of their charateristics of
having no crossovers, no woofers, no tweeters, no midrange drivers, for
a seamless musical reproduction. However, the since of realism was
greater with the F than with those electrostatics, perhaps because of
the omni directional sound projection of the F and because the bass had
greater authority and authenticity and because they could be played a
lot louder. I paid $1200 for the pair in 1977 (when they were replaced
by the Walsh 5 about 1990 they were going for $5000)
Yes, the F was indeed satisfying. One thing they did lack however, was
dynamic range. You needed at least 75 to 100 watts to make them "speak"
but they would only accept 250-300 watts. Analog recordings did not
cause a problem. Neither did Pop or Soul music at very loud decibel
levels. However, the wide dynamics of some of the early digital Telarc
classical discs began to really stress the F's. I purchased an Audio Pro
D2 50 sub woofer, which bought the F's a couple of more years of life.
My livingroom was just the right size (16 X 23) for them. This enabled
them to placed in the room at least 4 feet from the rear wall and at
least couple of feet from the side walls where they performed best.
However, when I moved to my current house with a larger livingroom (24ft
X 29ft with 10 foot ceilings), that proved to be too much for the F for
authentic listen levels of music with wide dynamics and deep bass
(Romantic classical, for example). In that respect you have to give
speakers such as the Klispch Horn their just due. They take the digital
age dynamics and large rooms like a walk on the beach.
So I started the entire speaker search all over again. I had to spend
over 10 times the original cost of the F's to obtain superior sound (not
counting $3000 I spent 5 years later to update the drivers and cross
overs). The Ohm F was a very tough act to follow.
Robert C. Lang
Ron
wrote:
I have a just sold my 23 year old pair of JBL L-65s 'Jubal'
speakers. They were a bargain when I got them in 1975 for
less than a thousand bucks. Startibf about 10 years ago, I
would get the urge to 'upgrade' every few years, make the
rounds of the high-end stores and never find anything
comparable to (let alone, better than) these Jubals, at
anything that I could afford.
A couple of years ago, the foam surrounds on both woofers
finally gave way and disintegrated. The speakers' 5 years
warranty had, of course, long expired. However, since the
warranty included a clause saying that JBL speakers should
never fail, and if they did due to failure of materials, the
time limit would be waived. JBL were good on their words and
renewed (cones, surrounds, VCs -- the works) both woofers,
under warranty, at no charge. Good speakers, good company.
A couple of years ago, I finally replaced them with B&W 801s
($5500 list) -- better speakers, but not by much. The 802s,
BTW, were decidedly inferiour.
-- Ron
Dutchtr827
about the only way you can connect this many speakers and end up with
the original impedance. There was a home built system that was called
the sweet sixteen that connect 16 small drivers in series and paralell
to end back up with 8 ohms. THe only problem with connecting that
many speakers together is phase aray distortion. There are just to
many driver ouput signals crossing paths. Phase aray distortion and
difraction distortion is still one of the biggest problems in speaker
systems today. It has been greatly reduced with the placement of the
drivers and the shape of the cabinets, but it is still there. Dipole
systems, even thought they sound nice, suffer from phase distortion
unless placed properly in the room. While dipole speakers sound
fuller and provide a nicer soundstage they still have their problems.
The sphere is the perfect enclosure, but who can build one of these
out of wood ? There are many different cabinet designs out there and
the more exotic they get the higher the cost of the system. One of
the best designs out there right now is the trapizoid enclosure. Not
all that hard to build and due to the fact there are no 90 degree
corners, outside or inside the cabinet, make for a very nice enclosure
that produces hardly any difraction distortion. If only the front
panel were not flat it would be perfect. I remember the Alison as
having a cabinet wothout any 90 degree corners. Very nice design.
I thank all of the people who have contributed to this thread. A very
nice list is being compiled. Maybe we can have a vote soon to decide
which system was the best. That should bring forth some noteworthy
comments :-)
The best sounds to all
Johann
VinylRules
百pica TC-50, TC-60 & Angelus
*These were/are among the finest soundstaging/imaging speakers in the
world - and that is "regardless of price". Utterly natural, ultra
wide and open soundstage. Fantastic with acoustic music.
弼SE Model 1 & 2
*Very musical IMHO. Lots of "bang-for-the buck" for their time (mid
eighties)
Vinylrules
WSpohn4
>*These were/are among the finest soundstaging/imaging speakers in the
>world - and that is "regardless of price".
I owned a pair of Angeli for several years, and except for an obvious
limitation in the lower register (still _much_ better than the TC's) they were
second only to such speakers as old Quads in terms of imaging and midrange.
Too bad John Bau went under/sold out.
Bill S.
Triodont
and regularly listen to my friend's quad esl's. imho they are the equal (and
not just second to) the esl, in terms of mids, imaging, and other things. the
tc-50, i think because of its paper cone has a slightly more natural midrange
than the angelus (but more inefficient) and sounds closer to the esl. this
friend also has vintage tannoys, altecs, acoustats, cls, but quads are his
speaker of choice.
VinylRules
very interesting thing happenned a couple of weeks ago...
I had a buddy over to listen to my new digital rig -- while not
analog, it is VERY nice nonetheless IMHO -- and I carried out 90% of
the 1.5 hour audition on my Spica TC-60s. This wasn't planned, as I
hadn't listened to them in several months since I had the Quads
refurbished by QS&D over the summer. And mind you, I basically just
plopped them right in front the Quads and got them semi leveled.
But... they sounded soooo good! Wow! So wide and open, so natural
and airy, so MAGICAL!
At the beginning of the audition my friend was skeptical as to why a
wasn't really using my "reference" speaker, but once we heard the
beautiful sounds being reproduced from the cd's he had brought, we
just forgot about the speaker issue and just got immersed in the
music.
Towards the end of the audition I decided to switch back to the Quads
just to show my friend he was getting the "royal treatment" he
deserved and, to our utter disbelieve, going back to the Quads was
somewhat of a letdown! I'm serious, we couldn't believe our ears!
The the gobs of air, the ultra wide, natural, open soundstage and the
layers upon layers of depth were quite diminished!! What was going
on here??? Anyhow, let's just say my buddy (a seasoned audiophile
himself) left my home scratching his head and I was left wondering if
I had spent all that money getting the Quads refurbished in vain.
Well... some minutes later and once my ears got to settle down to the
Quads, I started appreciate once again why they are so revered.
Quads do what they do best like hardly any other speaker in the
world. Utter neutrality and coherency from top to bottom, great
transient snap, and of course that utterly realistic midrange.
Let's just say I consider myself very fortunate to own these two
magnificent speakers. They are so similar in some respects but yet
so dissimilar in others - quite fascinating. The Spicas just do the
openness, depth, wide thing so much better IMHO than the Quads and
with a georgeous midrange to boot. I guess the best way I can
describe their differences is that the Quads appeal more to the brain
and the "unassuming" little Spicas appeal more to the heart. Oddly
enough, that's how I feel about the Quads in reference to most other
speakers out there (Quads appealing to the heart by comparison) --
except ProAcs, they do that "appealing to the heart" thing very well
indeed.
Vinylrules
Richard D Pierce
Dutchtr827 <dutch...@aol.com> wrote:
>Connecting 16 speakers together is a clasical arrangement. It is
>about the only way you can connect this many speakers and end up with
>the original impedance.
Nope, not correct. All integer square numbers will work this way,
allowing, for example, the connection of 1 (trivial), 4, 9, 16, 25, 36 and
so on in series-parallel combinations will all give a resulting impedance
that's the same as 1 driver.
>many driver ouput signals crossing paths. Phase aray distortion and
>difraction distortion is still one of the biggest problems in speaker
>systems today.
I've worked professionally in the loudspeaker for quite a number of years,
and the terms "phase array distortion" and "distraction distortion" are
utterly unheard of to me. Us physics types use terms like "interference."
It's a fully descriptive term, and one which the rest of the world
understands.
>The sphere is the perfect enclosure,
Says who? This is an ancient myth, one which does not survive well when
scrutinized objectively. The claim is made, for example, that a sphere has
no standing wave resonanced. Well, being more symmetrical than ANY
rectangular enclosure, it suffers from WHOPPING standing wave resonances,
all of them radial modes. The claim is made that spheres are
diffraction-free. This is also nonsense, and further, spheres can be shown
to suffer from some interesting diffraction modes, as a result of the path
length around the enclosure being absolutely equal in all directions.
>all that hard to build and due to the fact there are no 90 degree
>corners, outside or inside the cabinet, make for a very nice enclosure
>that produces hardly any difraction distortion. If only the front
>panel were not flat it would be perfect. I remember the Alison as
>having a cabinet wothout any 90 degree corners. Very nice design.
What is so evil about 90 degree angles?
--
| Dick Pierce |
| Professional Audio Development |
| 1-781/826-4963 Voice and FAX |
| DPi...@world.std.com |
Larry Spadacini
company that were known as the Ohm I's. They were the speakers with
a midrange and two tweeters on the top surface, as well as a
sub-woofer and tweeter facing the listener. They came out in about
1980, and were capable of reproducing concert hall sound pressure
levels. At the time, they were probably both the first loud and good
speakers.
Larry Spadacini
Rich Morin
years. They aren't going to shake the rooftops, but they sure do
play classical guitar nicely! BTW, if anyone has a pair of Beveridge
speakers and wants to be on the email list, let me know...
-r
--
Canta Forda Computer Laboratory | Prime Time Freeware - quality
UNIX consulting, training, & writing | freeware at affordable prices
+1 650-873-7841 | +1 408-433-9662 -0727 (Fax)
Rich Morin, r...@cfcl.com | www.ptf.com, in...@ptf.com
Richard D Pierce
Robert Moore
that I've heard reproduces a sound stage like them. I realize that
everything audio is subjective. It's that for my ears, when I listen to
pipe organ music on them, nothing else work. Of course, I do have a pair
of Hsu Research subs to get to the 32's :)
Dutchtr827 wrote:
>
> Over the last three decades I have had the fortune to listen and own
> some delightful speakers. I would like to hear from all of you who
> participate in this newsgroup which speakers of old you enjoyed the
> most. Here is my list:
>
> Altec A7
> Altec 19's
> JBL 4343
> JBL 4311
> Ohm Walsh
> Quad ESL
> B&W 17
>
> Enjoy your sounds the way they were meant to be heard. Through a
> tube amp :-)
>
> Best to all
>
> Johann
lemans...@webtv.net
have yet to hear any speaker I could realisitically afford that outdo
them to any significant degree.