Tweeter attenuation on Magnepan 2.7's
Dave Forbis
adding the tweeter and midrange attenuation resistors to the Magnepan
2.7's (or any other of their models, I suppose). Do the majority of
the owners prefer to keep them unmodifed, or attenuate the high end?
The Maggies are being driven by a Bryston 3B-ST and an Audio Research
SP-9 with a Parasound 1600 DAC as the primary source (various
CD/DAT/DSS fed into it). My primary listening includes rock, blues,
and jazz, so a slightly excessive high end is noticeable (that's why
I'm asking this question!).
Thanks,
Dave
The Southern Ear
I've run various Magnepan's over the years...SMG,MG1b, MG2.5R,
MG2.6R...currently on a pair of the new MG1.6/QR's...they really are
as good as the reviews.
Haven't had to resort to slugging the tweeter yet. Definitely prefer
the sound unmolested! Used both solid state and tube amps. Have had a
Krell KAV-300i and a Jadis DA-60 on the MG1.6, both amps produce
different but very listenable high ends, no excess of highs.
May I suggest you play around with the positioning of the speakers and
of your listening seat before getting out the resistors ? My MG1.6's
are about 2 meters from the rear wall, with my listening seat in the
nearfield. These speakers really do need room to breathe.
Cheers
Norman Schwartz
news:7j7pjv$c24$1...@agate.berkeley.edu...
I mostly listen to classical through Tympani IVa's, driven by a pair
of Bryston 7B-ST's and pad the tweeter with the 1 ohm resistors (in a
large room, carpeted with plenty of furniture, etc.)
Norman
Peter Wendell
> I was wondering if I could solicit some opinions/experiences with
> adding the tweeter and midrange attenuation resistors to the Magnepan
> 2.7's (or any other of their models, I suppose). Do the majority of
> the owners prefer to keep them unmodifed, or attenuate the high end?
>
> The Maggies are being driven by a Bryston 3B-ST and an Audio Research
> SP-9 with a Parasound 1600 DAC as the primary source (various
> CD/DAT/DSS fed into it). My primary listening includes rock, blues,
> and jazz, so a slightly excessive high end is noticeable (that's why
> I'm asking this question!).
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
I use a pair of Tympani IV's unattenuated with Bryston 4BST in a
fairly lively room. I've found them to be quite sensitive to toe in,
both in terms of imaging and frequency balance. I would suggest
playing around with positioning to achieve a sound that YOU like, and
only use the resistors if absolutely necessary.
Just My Opinion
bart luff
The bulk of my experience has been with the 1.5qr but I think the same
principles will apply.
I found the sound generally more pleasant with a 1ohm resistor in the
circuit, but it was at the expense of some detail & transient
information. I actually enjoyed the speakers both ways,
Position of the speakers is very important to the quality of the
treble. Experiment with toe-in. You should also try switching the
speakers from left to right.
Ultimately, I ended up with the speakers 7' apart, 14' from my seat,
with them about 6' from the front wall. I preferred them with the
tweeters to the outside, & toed in towards my armrests.
Good luck.
Bart
CCSman
resistor, is a matter of taste. Most of the time, I do use a
resistor, but I found, in my application, that the supplies 1 ohm
resistor a bit much. I've gotten a hold of some 1/2 ohm and 3/4 ohm
resistors; right now I am using the 3/4 ohm resistors, but there
times, months at a time, when I run the speakers straight.
The Devil
>I was wondering if I could solicit some opinions/experiences with
>adding the tweeter and midrange attenuation resistors to the Magnepan
>2.7's (or any other of their models, I suppose). Do the majority of
>the owners prefer to keep them unmodifed, or attenuate the high end?
That really depends, I'd say. I've heard Maggies sound very
bright and very dull in a variety of different rooms. I
think the key to getting the right top end balance is toe-in
and positioning. I'd spend some time here to get things as
right as you can. I've also noticed quite dramatic changes
to the top end and mids by arranging heavy wall-hung rugs
behind the panels. IMO, a thick rug with some fiber used for
stuffing cabinets behind it works exceptionally well at
taming reflected treble energy. I'd say you could make some
serious improvements here to bring the treble quality up to
scratch. If the speakers still sound too bright, then a
non-inductively wound resistor could be used to tailor the
quality to suit.
Good luck! :-)
__
www.pcavretch.cjb.net
Roy Briggs
Pamela Hughes
>
> for...@fnord.io.com (Dave Forbis) wrote:
>
> That really depends, I'd say. I've heard Maggies sound very
> bright and very dull in a variety of different rooms. I
> think the key to getting the right top end balance is toe-in
> and positioning. I'd spend some time here to get things as
> right as you can. I've also noticed quite dramatic changes
> to the top end and mids by arranging heavy wall-hung rugs
> behind the panels. IMO, a thick rug with some fiber used for
> stuffing cabinets behind it works exceptionally well at
> taming reflected treble energy. I'd say you could make some
> serious improvements here to bring the treble quality up to
> scratch. If the speakers still sound too bright, then a
> non-inductively wound resistor could be used to tailor the
> quality to suit.
And if the room isn't wide enough for that or you can't hang rugs
back there, you can do what I did and put fake trees behind them
(pattio door is behind my entertainment center and my maggies
angle in a bit so the sound fires slightly toward the corners on
either side of the door so I put fake trees there to cut down the
corner reflections... worked great and looks really nice too!)
James M. Cate
_____________________________________________________-
I heard the Maggie 3.6 at a local dealer yesterday and was very
impressed. The balance of treble, mids, lows seemed to be about right
to me. To my ears, the sound was dynamic, the bass and mids were very
tight and natural, and they seemed capable of reproducing complex
sounds, as in dynamic orchestral music, at high volumes without any
muddying or "smearing" of individual instruments.
I have not listened to them much in the past and would appreciate any
comments on good and bad points I should be aware of. I listen to
classical music for the most part along with some Rolling Stones,
folk, organ, and chorus music.- It seemed to me that a good sub,
adjusted to handle only bass below around 40-50 Hz, might help. Also,
I would be interested in knowing whether they have any particular
requirements other than lots of space and power. I assume that a
relatively high current amp is needed.
JimCate
Thomas Schafbauer
> > the sound unmolested! Used both solid state and tube amps. Have had a
> > Krell KAV-300i and a Jadis DA-60 on the MG1.6, both amps produce
> > different but very listenable high ends, no excess of highs.
> I heard the Maggie 3.6 at a local dealer yesterday and was very
> impressed. The balance of treble, mids, lows seemed to be about right
> to me. To my ears, the sound was dynamic, the bass and mids were very
> folk, organ, and chorus music.- It seemed to me that a good sub,
> adjusted to handle only bass below around 40-50 Hz, might help. Also,
> I would be interested in knowing whether they have any particular
> requirements other than lots of space and power. I assume that a
> relatively high current amp is needed.
James,
I got my Magnepan 3.6R a week ago.
Sound is close to perfection except for two things
- no deep base (I added two ACI Titan Subwoofers, which integrate
very nicely)
- very power-hungry, my Classe CA-400 (2x800W into 4 Ohm) is not
strong enough to drive them loud, I would recommend powerful
mono-blocks for large rooms and high levels
Other then that, they are great. I have them currently running
attenuated, since my room is on the bright side.
Thomas
James M. Cate
[quoted text deleted -- deb]
> James,
> I got my Magnepan 3.6R a week ago.
> Sound is close to perfection except for two things
> - no deep base (I added two ACI Titan Subwoofers, which integrate
> very nicely)
> - very power-hungry, my Classe CA-400 (2x800W into 4 Ohm) is not
> strong enough to drive them loud, I would recommend powerful
> mono-blocks for large rooms and high levels
> Other then that, they are great. I have them currently running
> attenuated, since my room is on the bright side.
__________________________________________
Thomas, I understand that they require a substantial break-in period.
Perhaps yours are not yet "loosened up", and will improve with your
present amp over the next few weeks.
Jim
Jonathan P. Best
As one with a lot of listening experience with the Magnepan 3.6R's in
conjunction with sundry amplifier/front-end combo's, I have a couple of
questions:
1. Just how "large" a room are we talking here?
2. What kind of music?
3. How "high" a level?
4. Have the speakers been tried in a multitude of locations in the room,
all with no deep bass?
5. Don't really want to go there, but what interconnects and speaker
cables?
I've heard them sound stunning in a 15 x 30 x 8 room, driven by an Audio
Research 100.2 solid state amp, with excellent deep bass. Even at higher
than warranted levels (for the selection being played) I have not heard a
collapsing sound stage, or the onset of noticeable clipping.
In my experience, it's hard to go wrong initially placing them according
to the "rule of thirds" (HP's or whomever's) but room placement is a
critical factor - read this NG or dig up some old reviews of Maggies.....
Something, IMHO, is wrong if you think you need more than a CA-400 to
drive Magnepan 3.6R's. I'd be interested in more information.....
Regards,
JB
SAW
them the dealer let me use the demo pair (for 3 weeks). When I got
mine I noticed that they had less bass appeal than the floor model
had. This did open up after a few weeks. But I don't listen to
stuff with deep deep bass. And the 40hz the 1.6's go hit low E on a
bass guitar I believe. 3.6's go down to 35hz if I remember right
(love that true ribbon tweeter too).
James M. Cate <jim...@pdq.net> wrote in message
news:7ko8ud$8...@news01.aud.alcatel.com...
> Thomas Schafbauer wrote:
> > James,
> > I got my Magnepan 3.6R a week ago.
> > Sound is close to perfection except for two things
> > - no deep base (I added two ACI Titan Subwoofers, which integrate
> > very nicely)
> > - very power-hungry, my Classe CA-400 (2x800W into 4 Ohm) is not
> > strong enough to drive them loud, I would recommend powerful
> > mono-blocks for large rooms and high levels
>
> > Other then that, they are great. I have them currently running
> > attenuated, since my room is on the bright side.
> Thomas, I understand that they require a substantial break-in period.
Thomas Schafbauer
> > > Sound is close to perfection except for two things
> > > - no deep base (I added two ACI Titan Subwoofers, which integrate
> > > very nicely)
> > > - very power-hungry, my Classe CA-400 (2x800W into 4 Ohm) is not
> > > strong enough to drive them loud, I would recommend powerful
> > > mono-blocks for large rooms and high levels
> > Thomas, I understand that they require a substantial break-in period.
> 1. Just how "large" a room are we talking here?
Approx 28' x 20' with a rising ceiling. from 7' to 12'
> 2. What kind of music?
The music where this problem usually is most visible is rock with a
base-drum and electric bass. Whoever heard a live base-drum, hears
immediately the difference between a "puf" and a "boom" Also songs
with accoustic base sound too flat (I actually have a real one for
comparison right in that room). Try Charly Antolini "Super Knockout",
song 7. It was recorded directly to vinyl (then remastered) in a large
hall. The accompaning electronic base must be clearly coming out. Also
recommendable is Sergio Mendes "Brasiliero", song 1, with several
percussionist (this still sounds too faint and distant in current
setup).
> 3. How "high" a level?
I would describe it as "party-level". The volume control on the Pass
Aleph P is about 75% (before distortion). The level is loud but not
extremely loud (we are talking here of almost pumping 2x800W into the
speakers!). I had Heco box-speakers before and could not turn the knob
to more than 1/4 to 1/3 without being afraid of damage to speakers.
It is not a big problem, except if you want some crescendi too go
really high.
> 4. Have the speakers been tried in a multitude of locations in the room,
> all with no deep bass?
Yes. I think they are now in their best position, placed on long side
with left speaker 4 feet from corner, right: center of wall 3 feet
into room, subs behind speakers, speakers apart 8 feet. Mid-bass
improved, still poor deep base. Without the subwoofers there is a
significant part in music missing IMHO. I knew it from listening to
2.7s at dealers before buying the 3.6. The 2.7 w/o subs lacked much of
the liveliness of a live concert, but the mids and highs are excellent
already. This results in a kind of curtain effect.
> 5. Don't really want to go there, but what interconnects and speaker cables?
Silver Audio balanced interconnects, Monster Cable to speaker (not the
best choice, but OK).
Thomas
James M. Cate
[quoted text deleted -- deb]
> As one with a lot of listening experience with the Magnepan 3.6R's in
> conjunction with sundry amplifier/front-end combo's, I have a couple of
> questions:
> 1. Just how "large" a room are we talking here?
> 2. What kind of music?
> 3. How "high" a level?
> 4. Have the speakers been tried in a multitude of locations in the room,
> all with no deep bass?
> 5. Don't really want to go there, but what interconnects and speaker
> cables?
> I've heard them sound stunning in a 15 x 30 x 8 room, driven by an Audio
> Research 100.2 solid state amp, with excellent deep bass. Even at higher
> than warranted levels (for the selection being played) I have not heard a
> collapsing sound stage, or the onset of noticeable clipping.
> In my experience, it's hard to go wrong initially placing them according
> to the "rule of thirds" (HP's or whomever's) but room placement is a
> critical factor - read this NG or dig up some old reviews of Maggies.....
> Something, IMHO, is wrong if you think you need more than a CA-400 to
> drive Magnepan 3.6R's. I'd be interested in more information.....
__________________________________________________-
I believe that your comments were addressed to Johnathan, but since
you are apparently a Maggie expert, I would also appreciate getting
your suggestions about placement and amps. - My room is about 20 X 16
ft., with a six-foot doorway on one side opening into a very large
closet area. Because of the location of some doors on the long
walls, it would probably be impractical for me to put the speakers on
one of the long wall. My present system seems to sound best with the
main speakers positioned about six feet out from one of the short
walls, spaced in about 3 feet in from the long walls, while seated
about 5-6 feet out from the opposite short wall. I will obviously
want to experiment with positioning the MG 3.6's, but would this
correlate to what would you suggest?
Regarding your other questions, I listen to a wide variety of music,
usually classical orchestral music at pretty high volumes. Also
choral, folk, organ, and some Rolling Stones and jazz. I presently
have an older integrated amp rated at 110 watts rms into 8 ohms. (I
have been using it to drive two sets of speakers connected in
parallel at quite high levels for some while, with no problems or
noticeable clipping.) I have a Velodyne F-1800 sub (with 1,200 watt
class D amp), which I plan to use in bypass mode with crossover set
around 40 Hz or lower, subject again to further experimentation when
the Maggie 3.6's are broken in. Interconnects are Monster Cable, and
speaker wires are 12-gage multistrand cables, 12 feet long, with gold
ends (raw cable purchased from Builders' Square).
I would appreciate your (or anyone's) comments and suggestions on
this set up, including the proposed sub arrangement. I have been
told that to drive the Maggies at high levels I will probably need a
good high current amp with 200 watts or so, but since I plan to
bypass the power amp section and the main speakers in the extreme low
frequencies, I plan to give it a try.
Thanks,
JimCate
cboo...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
speaker cables?
>
> best choice, but OK).
>
> Thomas
>
The Monster Cable may be part of your problem. I used 10 gauge Monster
with my SMGc's before I purchased D.H. Labs interconnects and speaker
cable. I switched the interconnects first then, a few months later, I
added the speaker cable. I swear when I switched I thought I'd
accidentally switched my subwoofer on (I have a single ACI Titan behind
and between the speakers). Also, the speakers were much cleaner
sounding. Even if you don't believe in cables, give them a try. You
can order them from www.audioc.com at a discount and if you don't like
them, send 'em back. I can guarantee you won't.
Chad ;)
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