Great Turntables Of Yesterday
Dutchtr827
so dear to our music untill the CD player came along. My first real
quality turntable was the very basic AR. No frills, just basic good
reliabilty wiht no nonsense good specs. Next was the B&O 3000, which
I still have but no longer use. The Rabco I had with the linear
tracking arm was a nice toy, but no show winner. Then came the B&O
8002. Now this is a nice toy. I still use it and only because it
fits nicely in the stereo rack. Even sounds good and makes it hard to
mess up when you are partying with a bunch of friends. I had the
Elac 770 (still do) which. were truly oustanding for their time. The
Garrard model "A" which, was another wonderful table for its time.
Provided the first gentle stacking for albums. I still have a
Garrard model 4HF. This unit looks awsome. The white, chrome and
red accents make this table look like something that should be in a
museum. I never got into buying the newer suoer high end tables of
today. Why ? I do not know. Gues I was happy enough with the table I
had and could not justify the bucks for the $3000 table. The
Technincs 1200 mark II was a real work horse. Still have a couple of
them sitting around I picked up just to try out. Was real
interesting watching the platter stop on a dime. The Philips 312
was a very nice table. Similar to the AR in the suspension. Loved
those green lit buttons for table operation. Still have a couple of
those in my collection. All of the above tables were sure fun to
use and I thoroughly enjoyed using them all. I know there are many
more that people enjoyed and would like to hear about.
The very best sounds to all
Johann
AXY189
but one that many, many people cut their teeth on, was the Pioneer
PL12-D
Gereon Maas
CEC 2000 (cheap, but for a students money quite acceptable)
DUAL CS 731Q (quality and sound performance was quite good, but it looked
and felt not as a sophisticated table)
THORENS TD 160 (a very nice one with excellent sound)
SONY PSX 60 (a heavy direct drive turntable)
AUDIO LINEAR (with the SME 3009 III series a quite good one, looks like a
Transrotor, still I have it and use it from time to time, equipped with a
Ortofon X3MC)
TRANSROTOR Hydraulic (the TRANSROTOR with the "fluid brake" for adjusting
the speed, with a SME 3009 II and a DENON DL 160 I am still using it. It
looks graet and sound performance is still OK)
The biggest problem I have with my two turntables to find amplifiers on the
market with 2 phono inputs and also good quality of these inputs. Most of
the amplifiers (even expensive ones) have just cheap amplifiers for the
phono section; esspecially if you look for a good Prologicamplifier.
Dutchtr827 schrieb in Nachricht <71ko79$g...@news01.aud.alcatel.com>...
Fred Whitlock
TTS-3000 on which I had mounted a Grace 707 tonearm. I bought it in 1968 or
69. The TTS-3000 was the state of the art for its day and would compete
well with modern tables. I was stupid for selling it. I had a marantz 8b
I feel stupid for selling as well. You can't keep it all, I guess. Good
listening.
Fred
AudioNow!
http://www.audionow.com
Michael Presley
>Well, here we go again with another search for what a lot of us found
>so dear to our music untill the CD player came along...
Johann:
1) Garrard Zero100. This was only a marginal player, but it's
designers had the right idea. Actually, I think Sao Win designed an
updated pantograph arm which I would have loved to have seen and
heard.
2) Transcriptors Skeleton. This belt drive was, I believe, one of
JA Michell's first tables. Heavy platter; belt drive; 3 point
suspension spyder; and heavy plate glass outer shell. From an
aesthetic standpoint alone it was worth buying. I wish I'd never
sold mine.
3) Original AR. With a Shure M-91 this is the table really got me
into music reproduction.
4) Technics SL 1200-2. Although still in production it is a fairly
old design and, thus, qualifies for inclusion. It is also probably
the best mid-range deck out there today. This 'table is often
overlooked because of it's present day "blue collar" working
background, but let us not forget that it was designed with the
consumer market in mind (just look at the instruction manual and you
will know what I mean). The platter is damped on both sides with no
ringing. The base is also acoustically dead. And the tone arm is
better than a $500.00 (street price) table has a right to. Even has
adjustable VTA during record play. And I don't even want to talk
about rock solid speed stability and torque. Finally, for a
cartridge changer (like me) the standard headshell is wonderful.
The beauty about each of the above was that none of them were very
expensive to own.
Michael
Arthur Shapiro
>If I could have one of my old turntables back I would choose my old Sony
>TTS-3000 on which I had mounted a Grace 707 tonearm. I bought it in 1968 or
>69. The TTS-3000 was the state of the art for its day and would compete
>well with modern tables.
Wow...I guess I have to gently disagree with Fred. I used to own
this guy, actually a TTS3000A, complete with Rabco SL8-E arm -
arguably the creme de la creme of arms back in 1972. It was a
decent enough turntable, but I don't know if it merits the degree of
praise Fred is giving it. The base was a rather thin (eighth inch?)
resonant wood, if memory serves, and the plinth was nothing
particularly outstanding. The plinth floated on the base with four
ordinary hardware-store coil springs, resting in brass cups mounted
on threaded studs in the base, so that one could level the turntable
fairly easily. Workable, but hardly an innovative design for the
ages. The turntable was fairly susceptible to side-to-side
disruption, as the springs had little springiness in other than the
up-and-down direction. And I vaguely recall that there wasn't a
hellacious amount of torque. I don't mean to claim that a turntable
needs the torque of a metal lathe, but the pressure of a record
brush shouldn't stall the motor either.
Am I overlooking something outstanding about the unit?
Art
Alan Braswell
>>so dear to our music untill the CD player came along...
>3) Original AR.
A real classic - worthy, simple, honest.
It was my first real turntable, excluding the one I had in my
early teens that was built right into the top of the receiver. (Hey,
don't laugh - I mowed a lot of yards to buy that thing - and it
started me on the way <g>).
The Linn Sondek LP12 -
Interesting in that it was a great turntable of Yesteryear and remains
so today, still in production, and with all the major upgrades
available as retrofits to the original model.
I still remember that orignal TAS review saying it looked like it was
"built in a Bronx garage", as well as the follow up review where the
TAS reviewer concluded that the turntable itself could indeed affect
the realism of the music, a somewhat novel idea at that time.
I bought my LP12 in 1978 (second or third year of production, I
believe) for about $400 (US) - a hefty price for a turntable in those
days. In the years that followed I had the Nirvana mod done and
upgraded to the Valhalla power supply, and upgraded to the Itok arm.
After several years of complacency (and budget limitations), I very
recently (on the advice of input primarily from readers of this ng)
put it through a major overhaul - with the Cirkus and Trampolin mods,
as well as replacing the aging capacitors on the Valhalla board - even
a new dust cover (Linn is very proud of their dust covers, btw, and
charge accordingly - $100 US).
The cost of the two mods - excluding dust cover and Valhalla repair -
was more than twice the cost of the orginal table. And here I will
offer my thanks again to all those who advised me on the upgrade - it
was worth every penny of it. For the first time in a very long time,
I felt goose bumps arise as Thelma Houston once again - for the
thousandth time - sang her heart out for me on that almost ancient
Sheffield Labs LP (one day, for a very special occasion, I'll open my
last virgin copy). Who would have thought - substantially improved
imaging, focus, transparency, openess, smoother midrange, tighter
bass - just a heck of a lot more musical. I'll probably be digging
out a lot of those old LP's in the months to come.
Regards,
Alan
abra...@worldnet.att.net
Alan Braswell
Houston, Texas
tomh
production Linn Sondek LP12!
As far as i'm concerned, its a must-audition for anyone looking in
its (rather wide) price range.
Tom
john001
tonearm for its time, but rather heavy. SO I ended up drilling a
bunch of holes and trying different counterweights until one day, the
arm fell apart from all the tinkering I did to it. I must say I had
fun with that table. My finest was a Denon direct drive with a Grace
707 arm on it. Right now I have a good old Technics SL1700 MK2 with a
Denon high output MC, (model # unknown and to lazy to go look).
Suites me fine these days.
John Kramer
[quoted text deleted -- deb]
Vincent J. Julian, Jr.
no automatic anything. Didn't even have a lift device (cueing for you
techno nerds).
-Vince (dam...@earthlink.net)
Vincent J. Julian, Jr.
me back !!! Or how about the Garrard AT-60 ??
-Vince (dam...@earthlink.net)
Bob Olhsson
>If I could have one of my old turntables back I would choose my old Sony
>TTS-3000 on which I had mounted a Grace 707 tonearm. I bought it in 1968 or
>69. The TTS-3000 was the state of the art for its day and would compete
>well with modern tables. I was stupid for selling it.
My initiation into "high-end" audio came when I compared a 25 year old
Thorens 124 with my Sony TTS-3000 and that old Thorens left it in the dust!
--
Bob Olhsson Audio | Science is about the creation and manipulation
Box 555, Novato CA | of models for the purpose of learning about and
94948 | understanding reality. It's very
important to not
415.457.2620 | confuse one's model with reality its self!
Bruce Normann
drive monsters being the best. I have a direct drive DQX-500, which
is an all metal creation with a 16" platter. Sounds great, and will
no doubt last forever.
bruce.
Richard King
Still using my old Kenwood KD500 turntable with my Infinity Black
Widow tonearm here. Bought it in approx 1970 or so. I am currently
using an AKG cartridge of some kind that I haven't really looked at
in years. This turntable weighs in at about 35 pounds or so and is
very resistant to any feed back problems. Still runs as stable as
the day I bot it.
Richard King
Jeff Swauger
> 1) Garrard Zero100. This was only a marginal player, but it's
> designers had the right idea. Actually, I think Sao Win designed an
> updated pantograph arm which I would have loved to have seen and
> heard.
A neat idea, but with an absolutely horrible implementation. High
mass arm and the bearings that controlled the movement of the
headshell tended to get loose and let the headshell sag, creating not
only a VTA problem, but tipping the stylus to point towards the
inside of the record. Argh. I had a Zero92 that was just hideous.
> 2) Transcriptors Skeleton. This belt drive was, I believe, one of
> JA Michell's first tables. Heavy platter; belt drive; 3 point
> suspension spyder; and heavy plate glass outer shell. From an
> aesthetic standpoint alone it was worth buying. I wish I'd never
> sold mine.
I wish I'd had the money to buy one when I was working in a stereo
store in college. One of the most incredibly beautiful tables ever,
and sounded quite good, very quiet. Absolutely horrible arm, the
Vestigal, everytime the weather would change the thing would go out
of alignment. I used to have to set these up, and it was a tedious,
frustrating experience. We sold most of them with Mayware Formula IV
arms, which worked really well with the table, and looked as cool or
cooler than the Vestigal.
> 4) Technics SL 1200-2. Although still in production it is a fairly
> old design and, thus, qualifies for inclusion. It is also probably
> the best mid-range deck out there today. This 'table is often
> overlooked because of it's present day "blue collar" working
> background, but let us not forget that it was designed with the
> consumer market in mind (just look at the instruction manual and you
> will know what I mean). The platter is damped on both sides with no
> ringing. The base is also acoustically dead. And the tone arm is
> better than a $500.00 (street price) table has a right to. Even has
> adjustable VTA during record play. And I don't even want to talk
> about rock solid speed stability and torque. Finally, for a
> cartridge changer (like me) the standard headshell is wonderful.
A table which is unjustly maligned by many IMO.
For the era, I'd add the Denon DP-1100 and DP-1200 to the list as
being exceptionally good tables for the money. AC direct drive, and a
decent tone arm on the 1100. I used an 1100 for years, and a friend
is still happily using it.
--
Jeff Swauger
Remove "mypants" to reply.....
Coruptissima republicae, plurimae leges - Tacitus
(The worse the state, the more laws it has.)
Matthias Weber
> No one mentioned the mighty, legendary, timeless and still in
> production Linn Sondek LP12!
I think, those Transrotor turntables (AC, Hydraulik ...) should have
their place in this virtual hall of fame. Besides they are real
eye-catchers even the oldest models (J.A. Michell) in combination
with a decent arm and a fitting cartridge can put up to just about
anything in the original price-range of up to 1.500 USD.
So long,
Matt
## CrossPoint v3.11 R ##
Barry/Muriel Wilkinson/Turner-Wilkinson
the Thorens 224 (or was it 225) the only HI-FI changer, watching it
meticulously pick up the played disc , put it in the played pile ,
then go to the waiting pile piock up a disc and drop it on the
platter, then the arm would move into play and the auto lift would
disengage. I believe it would take 10 discs at a time. Barry
Wilkinson
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Email harvesters won't want this address
ab...@cadvision.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stewart Pinkerton
>Hi there,
That's actually Transcriptors Ltd, an early brand name used by John
Michell, the Hydraulic Reference being the model featured in 'A
Clockwork Orange'. Transrotor is an entirely different product!
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Alan Polinsky
have cursed rather than been astonished. The 224 was a Thorens 124 with
an ancilliary automatic mechanism added to the side. When it worked
properly which was exceeding rare, it would act exactly as you
described. Unfortunately, too often, the lift arm would not quite raise
the record it was carrying high enough, so the top post of its stack
would place a nasty scratch on the bottom of the record. Alternatively,
if the pickup arm did not release at the right time, the record would
not be properly placed on the turntable platter, and it would turn in an
elliptical path until it crashed into the tonearm rest. When I owned
mine, there was only one person in the Thorens company who would handle
the machine; I seem to recall his name was John Spear. Though he was
extremely competent, Thorens never provided him with adequate supplies,
so in order to fix the machines, he used to canibalize whatever
unfixable machine was at hand, for parts. Though many of the parts
seemed to be the same as the ones on the 124, there were differences.
For instance, the rubber dampers which supported the machine were
different because of the extra record support mechanism on the side. The
124 had for identical dampers. I was elated when the "friction bolt",
broke on mine and I could no longer repair it. Though for a short period
of time I thought of making one in a machine shop, I took the break as
an omen. I threw out the table and never regretted it.
My Ar turntables continue to work flawlessly. They are the true classics
of yesterday, and probably tomorrow.
micha...@my-dejanews.com
swa...@magicnet.net wrote:
> > 1) Garrard Zero100.
> A neat idea, but with an absolutely horrible implementation. High
> mass arm and the bearings that controlled the movement of the
> headshell tended to get loose and let the headshell sag, creating not
> only a VTA problem, but tipping the stylus to point towards the
> inside of the record. Argh. I had a Zero92 that was just hideous.
Yeah, but other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? <g>
> > 2) Transcriptors Skeleton
> I wish I'd had the money to buy one when I was working in a stereo
> store in college. One of the most incredibly beautiful tables ever,
> and sounded quite good, very quiet. Absolutely horrible arm, the
> Vestigal, everytime the weather would change the thing would go out
> of alignment. I used to have to set these up, and it was a tedious,
> frustrating experience. We sold most of them with Mayware Formula IV
> arms, which worked really well with the table, and looked as cool or
> cooler than the Vestigal.
The Vestigal was an odd device. Imagine, using thread for a
headshell pivot! (But didn't Dynavector produce an arm with a similar
headshell pivot--albeit using a standard bearing) You're right,
though. When I bought mine the dealer didn't even offer the thing.
It was either the Formula 4 or one of the Grace tonearms. I opted
for the 707 instead of the Mayware unipivot. I guess I just wanted a
high priced Dual arm. Either way, from an aesthetic point of view
(and, really, a sonic standpoint) thus fitted the Transcriptors was a
nice machine.
> For the era, I'd add the Denon DP-1100 and DP-1200 to the list as
> being exceptionally good tables for the money. AC direct drive, and a
> decent tone arm on the 1100. I used an 1100 for years, and a friend
> is still happily using it.
People should remember that Denon was a major player in the analog
market. Their tables were always a cut above. And the Denon
cartridges were always worth while.
Michael
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Jay1Bala
solicon damping and all that).... possibly considered a classic? Is this
considered at least one of the best?
Thanks, Jay.