Alec Baldwin shoots two people and kills one, injures another

[RichA]

https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/

[BTR1701]

On Oct 21, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM PDT, "RichA" <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/

Back when I did my consulting gig on CSI:HORATIO, I remember how the studio
armorer went white as a sheet when he realized I'd been sitting around on set
all day with a loaded handgun on my hip. They apparently have ironclad rules
(which no one had mentioned to me up to that point) about who can possess and
handle firearms on a production set and when they can touch them just to
prevent things like this from happening, because although they're never loaded
with live ammo, even blanks can kill if fired at close enough range.

Makes me wonder if that's what happened here or if the gun was somehow loaded
with actual ammo. Either way, Baldwin should never have been playing around
with a gun outside of an actual filmed scene, and certainly shouldn't have
been pointing it at people. What possible reason could he have had for
pointing it at the director and the DP?

Although the police don't seem inclined to charge Baldwin criminally, he
should certainly face some kind of consequence for this.

[RichA]

He joins the august group consisting of Jon Erik Hexum and Brandon Lee. Even if the idiot isn't charged criminally, the lawsuits against him should hurt.

[Adam H. Kerman]

When I first heard the story, I was assuming an actor or an extra had
been shot. Then I heard Alec Baldwin fired the shot, and I figured if it
was during a take and he was following the shot, then the armorer was at
fault for failure to properly test and load the prop weapon.

Then I heard that Baldwin himself is producing, which makes him
ultimately responsible for the armorer's failures.

But then I heard... the woman he shot was the director of photography? I
just can't imagine a scenario in which a weapon aimed during a take
could be aimed at the director of photography.

It's like an episode of Columbo.

I sure don't see how Baldwin's acting career can survive.

[anim8rfsk]

BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM PDT, "RichA" <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>
> Back when I did my consulting gig on CSI:HORATIO, I remember how the studio
armorer went white as a sheet when he realized I'd been sitting around on
set
all day with a loaded handgun on my hip. They apparently have ironclad
rules
(which no one had mentioned to me up to that point) about who can
possess and
handle firearms on a production set and when they can touch them just to
prevent things like this from happening, because although they're never
loaded
with live ammo, even blanks can kill if fired at close enough range.
>

Would you have (did you) surrender your weapon?

> Makes me wonder if that’s what happened here or if the gun was somehow loaded
with actual ammo. Either way, Baldwin should never have been playing around
with a gun outside of an actual filmed scene, and certainly shouldn't have
been pointing it at people. What possible reason could he have had for
pointing it at the director and the DP?
>

And did he fire one round or two?

The reporting on this is incompetent even for modern American journalism.
They’re saying both live round and blank and they’re saying he cocked the
gun shooting two people. And they keep saying the gun “misfired“. Idiots.



—
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

[BTR1701]

In article <sktikh$r8h$1...@dont-email.me>,

Reading between the lines of admittedly horrible reporting, it sounds
like he was playing around with the gun between takes and was showing
off or something and ended up shooting two of the crew. Why it was
loaded with ammo is something else that's not explained.

[BTR1701]

In article
<1128336802.656584482.0...@news.easynews.com>,

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

> BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 21, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM PDT, "RichA" <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-cr
> >>> ew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
> >
> > Back when I did my consulting gig on CSI:HORATIO, I remember how the
> > studio armorer went white as a sheet when he realized I'd been sitting
> > around on set all day with a loaded handgun on my hip. They apparently
> > have ironclad rules (which no one had mentioned to me up to that point)
> > about who can possess and handle firearms on a production set and when
> > they can touch them just to prevent things like this from happening,
> > because although they're never loaded with live ammo, even blanks can
> > kill if fired at close enough range.

> Would you have (did you) surrender your weapon?

Not to him. I just went out and locked it up in the gun safe in the
trunk of my G-car.

> > Makes me wonder if that's what happened here or if the gun was somehow
> > loaded with actual ammo. Either way, Baldwin should never have been
> > playing around with a gun outside of an actual filmed scene, and
> > certainly shouldn't have been pointing it at people. What possible
> > reason could he have had for pointing it at the director and the DP?

> And did he fire one round or two?
>
> The reporting on this is incompetent even for modern American journalism.
> They're saying both live round and blank and they're saying he cocked the
> gun shooting two people. And they keep saying the gun "misfired". Idiots.

Yes, a combination of unclear info and a reporter ignorant about guns
and using terms that mean different things interchangeably adds up to
even crappier than usual 'journalism'.

[trotsky]

Another Gay/Proud Boys insurrection perhaps?

[trotsky]

Wow you sure like kissing Derpshit's ass. Gross.

[trotsky]

Excellent, now go back into the closet.

[trotsky]

Wait, what? Right wing shit like Daily Caller and the Federalist don't
have all the deets? This is incredibly disappointing!!!!!!!!

[trotsky]

On 10/22/21 4:43 AM, BTR1701 wrote:

> In article
> <1128336802.656584482.0...@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>>> On Oct 21, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM PDT, "RichA" <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-cr
>>>>> ew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>>>
>>> Back when I did my consulting gig on CSI:HORATIO, I remember how the
>>> studio armorer went white as a sheet when he realized I'd been sitting
>>> around on set all day with a loaded handgun on my hip. They apparently
>>> have ironclad rules (which no one had mentioned to me up to that point)
>>> about who can possess and handle firearms on a production set and when
>>> they can touch them just to prevent things like this from happening,
>>> because although they're never loaded with live ammo, even blanks can
>>> kill if fired at close enough range.
>
>> Would you have (did you) surrender your weapon?
>
> Not to him. I just went out and locked it up in the gun safe in the
> trunk of my G-car.

At least you finally admit to having a Gay car. Is it pink?

[Ubiquitous]

In article <sktikh$r8h$1...@dont-email.me>, a...@chinet.com wrote:

>I sure don't see how Baldwin's acting career can survive.

TROLL-O-METER

5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity

[Ubiquitous]

That was the first thing I thought when I heard about it because he's an
asshole.


--
Let's go Brandon!

[Rhino]

On 2021-10-22 12:55 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM PDT, "RichA" <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>
> Back when I did my consulting gig on CSI:HORATIO, I remember how the studio
> armorer went white as a sheet when he realized I'd been sitting around on set
> all day with a loaded handgun on my hip. They apparently have ironclad rules
> (which no one had mentioned to me up to that point) about who can possess and
> handle firearms on a production set and when they can touch them just to
> prevent things like this from happening, because although they're never loaded
> with live ammo, even blanks can kill if fired at close enough range.
>

Are you REQUIRED to be armed at all times when you are an active USSS
agent? The reason I ask is that I'm under the impression that some
police departments require you to be armed 24/7, including when you are
off-duty, so that you can act if you see a crime going down.

I remember a Third Watch episode that hinged on Faith having her backup
gun on her when she went to the bank while she was off-duty and stumbled
on a robbery. I'm not sure if that requirement is true or just something
they made up for that episode.

Of course a USSS agent isn't the same as a regular police officer so I
can imagine the rules being different even if regular cops do have to be
armed at all times.

> Makes me wonder if that's what happened here or if the gun was somehow loaded
> with actual ammo. Either way, Baldwin should never have been playing around
> with a gun outside of an actual filmed scene, and certainly shouldn't have
> been pointing it at people. What possible reason could he have had for
> pointing it at the director and the DP?
>
> Although the police don't seem inclined to charge Baldwin criminally, he
> should certainly face some kind of consequence for this.
>
>

As one of the producers of the film, I imagine he can be sued for
allowing the accident to happen in the first place by ignoring the
established safety protocols. I'm not sure if he's at any legal risk of
criminal charges, assuming he didn't actually put live rounds in the gun
himself. According to the comments under the article, some of which seem
to be written by people familiar with the rules, it would be the
armourer or prop master that would be criminally responsible if live
rounds got put in the gun.

--
Rhino

[Adam H. Kerman]

I just heard this morning that he also wounded the director/writer. He's
in hospital but it doesn't say how serious his condition is.

The movie is a western set in the 1880's about... the accidental
shooting of a rancher.

[trotsky]

On 10/22/21 8:45 AM, super70s wrote:
>> Reading between the lines of admittedly horrible reporting, it sounds
>> like he was playing around with the gun between takes and was showing
>> off or something and ended up shooting two of the crew. Why it was
>> loaded with ammo is something else that's not explained.
>

> He didn't necessarily have to be "playing around" or "showing off," he
> could've been running through a scene with the DOP and director and for
> some reason the damn gun fired.
>
> In this day and age of digital wonder why don't they just use completely
> mock weapons on a movie set and then dub the video and sound FX in.
>
> There must be thousands of accidental shootings in the US every year and
> one is bound to happen on a movie set from time to time (as in The Crow
> almost 30 years ago).


The dipshits might want to read up on how Brandon Lee died.

[Adam H. Kerman]

super70s <supe...@super70s.invalid> wrote:

>>Reading between the lines of admittedly horrible reporting, it sounds
>>like he was playing around with the gun between takes and was showing
>>off or something and ended up shooting two of the crew. Why it was
>>loaded with ammo is something else that's not explained.

>He didn't necessarily have to be "playing around" or "showing off," he
>could've been running through a scene with the DOP and director and for
>some reason the damn gun fired.

You shoot. You know better. The weapon discharged because he had his
finger on the trigger. The director of photography and the
director/writer were shot because Baldwin had aimed the gun at them.

There's just no way to shoot behind-the-camera people (the D.P. is
literally behind the camera) accidentally without having deliberately
aimed at them.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, I was completely taken aback when I
learned that the victims weren't other actors and that this wasn't
during production.

>In this day and age of digital wonder why don't they just use completely
>mock weapons on a movie set and then dub the video and sound FX in.

>There must be thousands of accidental shootings in the US every year and
>one is bound to happen on a movie set from time to time (as in The Crow
>almost 30 years ago).

The reason this is so very uncommon on movie sets is because actors are
known to be stupid, not sober, and stupid whilst sober and not sober, so
there is an employee called the armorer who retains all the weapons and
doesn't hand them to the actors till it's time to go into production.
Actors aren't allowed to load and unload their weapons either 'cuz
actors are stupid.

[RichA]

First picture of Baldwin, he's on the phone after the shooting. Probably to his lawyer.

[RichA]

Deets? Keep channeling the 13 year old girl in your, poofter.

[moviePig]

Probably not much crappier than usual when a celebrity's involved.

[RichA]

On Thursday, 21 October 2021 at 23:12:02 UTC-4, RichA wrote:
> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/

Pointed gun at a camera person? Did she catch his bad side?

"Criminal negligence — when the homicide was the result of an act or a failure to act that showed wanton or reckless disregard for the lives of others. An act is generally considered negligent if a reasonable person would have foreseen that the action would endanger a life"

[bruce bowser]

On Friday, October 22, 2021 at 12:55:51 AM UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM PDT, "RichA" <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>
> Back when I did my consulting gig on CSI:HORATIO

You're lying. You never did any consulting anywhere.

[moviePig]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit_happens

[anim8rfsk]

“a principal castmember cocked a gun, hitting Souza, 48 and Hutchins, 42,
on set”

That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of it works!

--

[anim8rfsk]

If in as his capacity as producer Baldwin ordered the armorer to give him a
loaded weapon against all safety protocols he could well be in trouble.

—

[Adam H. Kerman]

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

>"a principal castmember cocked a gun, hitting Souza, 48 and Hutchins, 42,
>on set"

>That's not how it works. That's not how any of it works!

You're saying there's a second shooter?

[Horace LaBadie]

In article
<531490523.656614076.61...@news.easynews.com>,

As I recall, Hexum shot himself in the head with a .44 loaded with
blanks on the set of Cover Up between scenes. And Brandon Lee was killed
during filming The Crow, when a metal object that had been in the
barrel of the gun was turned into a projectile.

[Ian J. Ball]

Grassy knoll!!!


--
"Who would ever do this to him!?" - HottCiara on DOOL (04-27-2020), asking
who would stab Victor Kirakis... How about ANYONE WHO'S EVER MET HIM??!!

[moviePig]

I'd think *everyone* who knowingly flouted safety protocols is toast...

[anim8rfsk]

Ian J. Ball <IJB...@mac.invalid> wrote:
> On 2021-10-22 17:03:05 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
>
>> anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> "a principal castmember cocked a gun, hitting Souza, 48 and Hutchins, 42,
>>> on set"
>>
>>> That's not how it works. That's not how any of it works!
>>
>> You're saying there's a second shooter?
>
> Grassy knoll!!!
>
>

I am an unindicted co-conspirator.

—

[BTR1701]

In article
<1879094830.656621302.5...@news.easynews.com>,

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

> Ian J. Ball <IJB...@mac.invalid> wrote:
> > On 2021-10-22 17:03:05 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:
> >
> >> anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> "a principal castmember cocked a gun, hitting Souza, 48 and Hutchins, 42,
> >>> on set"
> >>
> >>> That's not how it works. That's not how any of it works!
> >>
> >> You're saying there's a second shooter?
> >
> > Grassy knoll!!!

> I am an unindicted co-conspirator.

But if they're shooting this in Arizona, there are no grassy knolls.
More like brown, dusty, boiling knolls.

[David Johnston]

"Gun-safety protocol on sets in the United States has improved since
then, said Steven Hall, a veteran director of photography in Britain.
But he said one of the riskiest positions to be in is behind the camera
because that person is in the line of fire in scenes where an actor
appears to point a gun at the audience."

The real question is how he managed to shoot two people. That suggests
a live round.

[David Johnston]

On 2021-10-22 9:32 a.m., RichA wrote:
> On Thursday, 21 October 2021 at 23:12:02 UTC-4, RichA wrote:
>> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>
> Pointed gun at a camera person? Did she catch his bad side?
>

In 1903 during the first showing of The Great Train the story goes that
people panicked a bit at the ending because of this bit:


https://youtu.be/y3jrB5ANUUY?t=623

Since then many many actors have "shot" at the audience. Which means
really they were shooting at the camera, and the camera operator.

[Adam H. Kerman]

They weren't in production. It was between takes, but yes, I see the
point about how DURING PRODUCTION the camera operator could be in the
line of fire.

>The real question is how he managed to shoot two people. That suggests
>a live round.

You don't think he shot off multiple rounds? I think that's what
shooting two different people suggests.

[moviePig]

Worth mentioning that YouTube followed that clip up, for some reason,
with the quite funny "What's My Line" appearance of Salvador Dali...

[moviePig]

And, given the fatality, a lively one.

[David Johnston]

Given that it seems to be an accident the most likely cause for two
people getting shot is that the bullets passed through one victim and
hit another person. That's something TV misses in human shield scenarios.

[trotsky]

Get a room already. I mean another room after the first few dozen.

[trotsky]

I don't know, if they needed a sword swallowing consult he's the guy.

[trotsky]

So true, if they can prove in a court of law he knew the gun had live
ammo in it you'd be right. As it is though you're pulling stuff out of
your ass as usual.

[trotsky]

You're not American you piece of shit. You have no fucking idea what
urban slang is here. And that was before your precipitous cognitive
decline you fucking vegetable.

[BTR1701]

In article <skv6g4$19ae$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Yeah, I saw the new James Bond flick yesterday and both the girlfriend
and I laughed out loud during the gunfight at the end when Bond grabbed
a dead soldier and used him as a shield to absorb a dozen or so AK
rounds shot from another bad guy. Unless the henchmen are made of sand,
that *so* would not be a winning strategy.

[BTR1701]

In article
<super70s-1AAD72...@reader02.eternal-september.org>,
super70s <supe...@super70s.invalid> wrote:

> In article <skuhft$uff$1...@dont-email.me>,

> "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> > The reason this is so very uncommon on movie sets is because actors are
> > known to be stupid, not sober, and stupid whilst sober and not sober, so
> > there is an employee called the armorer who retains all the weapons and
> > doesn't hand them to the actors till it's time to go into production.
> > Actors aren't allowed to load and unload their weapons either 'cuz
> > actors are stupid.
>
> This might not have been human negligence on either Baldwin's or his
> armorer's part, the gun could have just fired for some arbitrary reason.
>
> This is of course why the gun lobby has ordered the Republican party to
> pass laws to protect gun manufacturers from being sued and prevent guns
> from being treated like any other consumer product.

(1) Guns don't just fire for no reason. Unless you're arguing the gun is
possessed by a demon or something, it's just an inanimate object. A gun
doesn't spontaneously fire any more than your car spontaneously starts
up and drives around the block a few times during the night.

(2) No, they want laws to prevent guns being treated *differently* than
any other product.

For example, in order for me to sue the manufacturer of my toaster under
product liability law, I have to show that the toaster had a defect or
malfunctioned in some way and caused me damage.

The gun grabbers, however, want to be able to sue a gun manufacturer
without having to show the gun had any defect or show that it
malfunctioned in any way. They want to do the *opposite* of what's
required of every other plaintiff and hold gun manufacturers liable
under product liability law when their product works perfectly as
designed and intended.

So Congress passed a law that shields gun manufacturers from that kind
of duplicitous end-run around the requirements of product liability law.
If a gun actually *does* malfunction and cause injury, the gun
manufacturers are still liable for it just like any other product
manufacturer would be. They're just shielded from liability from
gun-grabbing organizations who want to abuse product liability in a
disingenuous attempt to bankrupt the entire industry and make it
impossible for people to buy firearms. The grabbers have resorted to
misusing the court system to achieve what they can't achieve at the
ballot box and Congress rightly stopped that shit cold.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <skv6g4$19ae$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Hey, Gibbs deliberately shot Agent Lee on NCIS to get the terrorist
holding her hostage. She was a traitor, and gave him the nod to do it,
both of them knowing she would be killed. But this season he shot from
behind the guy holding Kasie hostage, and she was okay. She made a point
of telling Gary Cole that he should do the same if that ever happened
again.

On the other hand, a character was shot in the head from about a foot
behind her on Rizzoli & Isles, and her face was pristine after.

To be fair, police are supposed to use "light loads" in their ammo to
prevent through-and-through situations.

[Neill Massello]

Baldwin is just a patsy.

[Rhino]

I remember when Bruce Willis DELIBERATELY shot through the human shield
to take out the bad guy (Timothy Olyphant) in the 4th Die Hard movie. I
don't think I'd ever seen a plot do THAT before....

--
Rhino

[Ed Stasiak]

> Adam H. Kerman
> > super70s
> >
> > He didn't necessarily have to be "playing around" or "showing off," he
> > could've been running through a scene with the DOP and director and
> > for some reason the damn gun fired.
>
> You shoot. You know better. The weapon discharged because he had his
> finger on the trigger. The director of photography and the director/writer
> were shot because Baldwin had aimed the gun at them.

Indeed. Baldwin is a typical idiot liberal; guns are bad when average
Americans own them but they're good when he's making money using
a gun in a movie.

I'm guessing he didn't have any firearm safety training, (also typical of
liberals) unlike Keanu Reeves, who went thru a full-on tacticool shooting
course for the “John Wick” movies, so he’d no only look like badasses in
the flick but also learned how to SAFELY handle a gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jLTSzf-5p4

> There's just no way to shoot behind-the-camera people (the D.P. is
> literally behind the camera) accidentally without having deliberately
> aimed at them.

I suppose if the scene called for Baldwin to point the gun at the camera,
then I could see it happening.

[BTR1701]

On Oct 22, 2021 at 2:30:23 PM PDT, "Ed Stasiak" <edstas...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> Adam H. Kerman
>> > super70s
>> >
>> > He didn't necessarily have to be "playing around" or "showing off," he
>> > could've been running through a scene with the DOP and director and
>> > for some reason the damn gun fired.
>>
>> You shoot. You know better. The weapon discharged because he had his
>> finger on the trigger. The director of photography and the director/writer
>> were shot because Baldwin had aimed the gun at them.
>
> Indeed. Baldwin is a typical idiot liberal; guns are bad when average
> Americans own them but they're good when he's making money using
> a gun in a movie.
>
> I'm guessing he didn't have any firearm safety training, (also typical of
> liberals) unlike Keanu Reeves, who went thru a full-on tacticool shooting
> course for the “John Wick” movies, so he’d no only look like badasses in
> the flick but also learned how to SAFELY handle a gun.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jLTSzf-5p4

I was part of a group that was invited up for a day of shooting at Taran
Tactical a couple years ago. That guy is like Mozart with a gun. It's spooky
how good (and fast) he can shoot.

[anim8rfsk]

Lol

--

[Ed Stasiak]

> Adam H. Kerman
> > David Johnston

> >
> > The real question is how he managed to shoot two people.
> > That suggests a live round.

It could have been a fragment of a blank round but I don’t see
how that would have enough energy to ricochet off one guy
(injuring him) and then kill another guy?

https://cdn3.volusion.com/jodua.csmpx/v/vspfiles/photos/SA37-3.jpg?1547474328

> You don't think he shot off multiple rounds? I think that's
> what shooting two different people suggests.

If it was multiple rounds and not a ricochet, Baldwin was probably
surprised by the first shot and this caused him to accidentally
pulled the trigger again.

[anim8rfsk]

Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

Robin is posting the most recent news. The last article she put up said
only one round was fired. Then again it said he fired it by cocking the
weapon.

—

[anim8rfsk]

BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
> In article
> <super70s-1AAD72...@reader02.eternal-september.org>,
> super70s <supe...@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In article <skuhft$uff$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>> The reason this is so very uncommon on movie sets is because actors are
>>> known to be stupid, not sober, and stupid whilst sober and not sober, so
>>> there is an employee called the armorer who retains all the weapons and
>>> doesn't hand them to the actors till it's time to go into production.
>>> Actors aren't allowed to load and unload their weapons either 'cuz
>>> actors are stupid.
>>
>> This might not have been human negligence on either Baldwin's or his
>> armorer's part, the gun could have just fired for some arbitrary reason.
>>
>> This is of course why the gun lobby has ordered the Republican party to
>> pass laws to protect gun manufacturers from being sued and prevent guns
>> from being treated like any other consumer product.
>
> (1) Guns don't just fire for no reason. Unless you're arguing the gun is
> possessed by a demon or something, it's just an inanimate object. A gun
> doesn't spontaneously fire any more than your car spontaneously starts
> up and drives around the block a few times during the night.
>

They’re working on that.


--

[anim8rfsk]

It worked for Ahnold in Total Recall.

—

[moviePig]

Under the theory that it was a movie shot (so to speak), it wouldn't be
unusual in calling for multiple firings in rapid succession.

[Adam H. Kerman]

super70s <supe...@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>"Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>super70s <supe...@super70s.invalid> wrote:

>>>He didn't necessarily have to be "playing around" or "showing off," he
>>>could've been running through a scene with the DOP and director and for
>>>some reason the damn gun fired.

>>You shoot. You know better. The weapon discharged because he had his
>>finger on the trigger. The director of photography and the
>>director/writer were shot because Baldwin had aimed the gun at them.

>>There's just no way to shoot behind-the-camera people (the D.P. is
>>literally behind the camera) accidentally without having deliberately
>>aimed at them.

>We're still learning the details, this could have been a ricochet
>situation.

Let's go with he fired repeatedly as that's a lot more likely. Yeah I
saw Deadpool did that.

>>>In this day and age of digital wonder why don't they just use completely
>>>mock weapons on a movie set and then dub the video and sound FX in.

>>>There must be thousands of accidental shootings in the US every year and
>>>one is bound to happen on a movie set from time to time (as in The Crow
>>>almost 30 years ago).

>>The reason this is so very uncommon on movie sets is because actors are
>>known to be stupid, not sober, and stupid whilst sober and not sober, so
>>there is an employee called the armorer who retains all the weapons and
>>doesn't hand them to the actors till it's time to go into production.
>>Actors aren't allowed to load and unload their weapons either 'cuz
>>actors are stupid.

>This might not have been human negligence on either Baldwin's or his
>armorer's part, the gun could have just fired for some arbitrary reason.

You said this already. You know that's not true. You're wrong here.

>This is of course why the gun lobby has ordered the Republican party to
>pass laws to protect gun manufacturers from being sued and prevent guns
>from being treated like any other consumer product.

If a gun did what you claim it could, then that's a manufacturing defect
and the manufacturer is not shielded.

Just stop talking now.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Speed! Shoot the hostage scenario

[Adam H. Kerman]

Isn't there an episode of The Wild Wild West in which a trick gun is set
up to do that?

[David Johnston]

Oh that's perfectly possible. If you pull the thingie back but it
doesn't lock in place but just snaps forward again, it's like you pulled
the trigger.

[BTR1701]

On Oct 21, 2021 at 10:36:17 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <a...@chinet.com>
wrote:

I talked to a few actor friends about this today and they said that in any
production involving firearms, it's made clear to the actors that it's their
responsibility to check the firearm with the armorer every time it's handed to
them to ensure it's either unloaded or loaded with the proper dummy
ammunition.

So Baldwin really has no excuse for what happened here. It was his affirmative
duty to check every firearm he handled on set and he obviously didn't do it in
this case.

[BTR1701]

On Oct 22, 2021 at 3:31:53 PM PDT, "super70s" <supe...@super70s.invalid>
wrote:

> I'm arguing guns are subject to manufacturing defects like anything else
> that is designed and made by humans, there's no good reason why they
> should get special treatment under the law.

If they're *actually* defective, they don't get special treatment.

[BTR1701]

And here's a director saying the same thing:

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1451613080648130566?s=20

[BTR1701]

On Oct 22, 2021 at 9:50:49 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> It's like an episode of Columbo.
>>>
>>> I sure don't see how Baldwin's acting career can survive.
>>

>> First picture of Baldwin, he's on the phone after the shooting. Probably
>> to his lawyer.

>>
> "a principal castmember cocked a gun, hitting Souza, 48 and Hutchins, 42,
> on set"
>
> That’s not how it works. That’s not how any of it works!

I just found out that Alec Baldwin has blocked me on the Twitters.

I guess that's for the best. If he can't see me, he can't hit me.

[BTR1701]

@AlecBaldwin: I'm going to make bright, banana yellow t-shirts that read "My
hands are up. Please don't shoot me."

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tylpxce5c7opocg/Baldwin.png?dl=0

Hey, Alec, are those still available?

Asking for a production assistant...

[RichA]

You are an idiot. Why would Baldwin have pointed the gun at a cinema photog and pulled the trigger? Did she suddenly start acting and was in a scene??

[RichA]

On Thursday, 21 October 2021 at 23:12:02 UTC-4, RichA wrote:
> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/

I think the main problem is Baldwin himself. They put a gun in the hand of a left-liberal. What did they think would happen?
BTW, he said: "I'm fully co-operating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred."
How? He POINTED a gun and pulled the trigger. Lets say it was loaded with a blank. Do you know what a cotton wadding
traveling at 1500fps can do? Jon Erik Hexum caved in part of his brain, killing himself instantly with a blank .44 magnum cartridge.

wiki:

While blanks are less dangerous than live ammunition, they are far from harmless, and can in fact be fatal. Beside the hot combustion gases, any objects in the cartridge itself (like wadding or a bullet-shaped plug keeping the propellant in place) or the barrel will be propelled at high velocity and cause injury or death at close range.

[Ed Stasiak]

> David Johnston
> > anim8rfsk

> >
> > Robin is posting the most recent news. The last article she put up said
> > only one round was fired. Then again it said he fired it by cocking the
> > weapon.
>
> Oh that's perfectly possible. If you pull the thingie back but it doesn't
> lock in place but just snaps forward again, it's like you pulled the trigger.

No.

https://www.usacarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/7-Transfer-Bar.jpg

[moviePig]

What does it mean to "check the firearm with the armorer", and how are
you rock solid certain he didn't do that?

[BTR1701]

Work the action, visually inspect the chamber, confirm that it's empty or that
the ammo isn't live.

> and how are you rock solid certain he didn't do that?

Because this happened. Res ipsa loquitur.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article
<999587670.656632547.35...@news.easynews.com>,

The evening news just said that two previous misfires of the same weapon
had been reported by crew during the filming.

[JG Rove]

> >Reading between the lines of admittedly horrible reporting, it sounds
> >like he was playing around with the gun between takes and was showing
> >off or something and ended up shooting two of the crew. Why it was
> >loaded with ammo is something else that's not explained.
> I just heard this morning that he also wounded the director/writer. He's
> in hospital but it doesn't say how serious his condition is.
>
> The movie is a western set in the 1880's about... the accidental
> shooting of a rancher.

Baldwin was rehearsing his SNL Trump character shooting down Fifth Avenue in Manhattan with no repercussions.

[BTR1701]

On Oct 22, 2021 at 4:03:46 PM PDT, "moviePig" <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:

Will Smith knows his business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpmLr3Sxdv0

[Ed Stasiak]

> Horace LaBadie
> > anim8rfsk

> >
> > Robin is posting the most recent news. The last article she put up said
> > only one round was fired. Then again it said he fired it by cocking the
> > weapon.

Once again in case anybody missed it:

https://www.usacarry.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/7-Transfer-Bar.jpg

> The evening news just said that two previous misfires of the same weapon
> had been reported by crew during the filming.

https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2020/11/9/gun-safety-misfires-hangfires

“A misfire is a failure of the priming mixture to be initiated after the primer
(or rim of a rimfire case) has been struck an adequate blow by the firing pin,
or the failure of the initiated primer to ignite the powder. This term is also
commonly used to refer to a failure to fire caused by an insufficient hit on
the primer (perhaps more appropriately called a "light hit").

A misfire is experienced as the complete failure of a cartridge to fire when
the trigger is pulled and the hammer or firing pin falls. A light firing pin hit
is probably the most common cause of misfires, but occasionally they may
also result from deteriorated or defective ammunition. When a light firing
pin hit is the cause of the misfire, a shallow indentation of the primer cup
will usually be seen when the misfiring cartridge is removed from the chamber.”

[shawn]

And the first tweet below the one you linked to is this response shown
below. Now I don't know the guy but it wouldn't surprise me at all to
find that his experience is the reality on many sets.

That said Baldwin is experienced enough that I would expect he does
check the weapon. At least normally so either he forgot to check it
this time or he knew it was loaded but thought it was loaded with
blanks. It seems like it wasn't loaded with blanks for which I have no
explanation as I can't think of any reason to have a prop gun loaded
with real ammunition.


Geoff Pilkington@geoffpilkington
Replying to @robbystarbuck

No it's not the actor's duty to check the gun. That is false. I've
been on countless sets where prop guns are present and rarely do I see
talent checking the guns. You have a prop team, stunts, armourer etc
present who's job that is.


Robby Starbuck@robbystarbuck
5h
Reiterating what I said yesterday. Having directed a LOT of scenes
with guns. This should NEVER happen and it’s total negligence for an
actor not to check the gun with the person handing it off to him. Alec
had a duty to check the gun. As a director I always checked the guns
too.

Geoff Pilkington@geoffpilkington
Replying to @robbystarbuck
No it’s not the actor’s duty to check the gun. That is false. I’ve
been on countless sets where prop guns are present and rarely do I see
talent checking the guns. You have a prop team, stunts, armourer etc
present who’s job that is.
3:30 PM · Oct 22, 2021 from Los Angeles, CA·Twitter for iPhone


Robby Starbuck@robbystarbuck
3h
Replying to @geoffpilkington
They’re supposed to check the gun in front of actor, most actors check
the gun themselves too (all should) as a potentially deadly weapon is
in your hands. I’ve produced over 1,000 projects and planned the
safety for a TON of shooting scenes.
Geoff Pilkington@geoffpilkington
·
3h
That I agree with except for “most” actors check it themselves. I’d
say some do (at most). Many actors have little to no weapons training.
Hundreds of background artists carry prop guns. An actor is not
required to check it but it would be nice if they always did.

[BTR1701]

There's a difference between a prop gun and a real working gun. Prop guns
are just big hunks of plastic molded in the shape of a gun, which is what
background cast use. They don't need to check them because there's nothing
to check.

[shawn]

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 23:55:43 -0500, BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:

>On Oct 21, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM PDT, "RichA" <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>
>Back when I did my consulting gig on CSI:HORATIO, I remember how the studio
>armorer went white as a sheet when he realized I'd been sitting around on set
>all day with a loaded handgun on my hip. They apparently have ironclad rules
>(which no one had mentioned to me up to that point) about who can possess and
>handle firearms on a production set and when they can touch them just to
>prevent things like this from happening, because although they're never loaded
>with live ammo, even blanks can kill if fired at close enough range.
>
>Makes me wonder if that's what happened here or if the gun was somehow loaded
>with actual ammo. Either way, Baldwin should never have been playing around
>with a gun outside of an actual filmed scene, and certainly shouldn't have
>been pointing it at people. What possible reason could he have had for
>pointing it at the director and the DP?
>
>Although the police don't seem inclined to charge Baldwin criminally, he
>should certainly face some kind of consequence for this.
>

Given this update it seems like Baldwin is not at fault here. While it
would have been better if he had checked the weapon this weapon was
supposedly checked by at least two people with the prop
master/armourer doing the original check and the assistant director
picking the weapon up. That said I also saw a report that this weapon
had supposedly misfired a couple of times already. So one would assume
the armourer would have been giving it extra attention to make sure
nothing goes wrong.






https://www.abqjournal.com/2439807/baldwin-shocked-and-saddened-at-tragic-accident-that-left-colleague-dead.html

During filming outside Santa Fe on Thursday, an assistant director
grabbed one of three “prop guns” from a rolling cart, yelled “cold
gun” – indicating it was not loaded – and handed it to Alec Baldwin.

Baldwin fired the gun, striking cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and
director Joel Souza.

Hutchins, 42, died after being airlifted to an Albuquerque hospital
and Souza, 48, was hospitalized in Santa Fe and was released Friday.

Authorities learned the assistant director did not know live rounds
were in the prop gun at the time.

Court records detail what led up to the deadly incident at the Bonanza
Creek Ranch and 911 calls detail the chaos that followed as crew
members summoned emergency personnel to the scene.

In one call, a woman identifying herself as a script supervisor tells
dispatch, “we’ve had two people accidentally shot by a prop gun; we
need help immediately.”

“Was it loaded with a real bullet?” a dispatcher asks.

The caller replies, “I don’t… I can’t tell you that… And this
(expletive) AD that yelled at me at lunch – asking about revisions,
this mother (expletive) – he’s supposed to check the guns, he’s
responsible for what happens on the set.”

“We were rehearsing and it went off and I ran out, we all ran out,”
the woman tells dispatch.

Crews were filming “Rust” on Bonanza Creek Ranch at the time, a
Western centered around a teen’s flight from prosecution for an
accidental murder.

Nobody has been charged in the incident and the Santa Fe County
Sheriff’s Office is investigating.

[anim8rfsk]

Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com> wrote:
> In article <skv6g4$19ae$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

> David Johnston <davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>> On 2021-10-22 1:48 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>> David Johnston <davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2021-10-21 11:36 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>>>>> BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Oct 21, 2021 at 8:12:00 PM PDT, "RichA" <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-
>>>>>>> crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>>>
>>>>>> Back when I did my consulting gig on CSI:HORATIO, I remember how the
>>>>>> studio armorer went white as a sheet when he realized I'd been
>>>>>> sitting around on set all day with a loaded handgun on my hip. They
>>>>>> apparently have ironclad rules (which no one had mentioned to me up
>>>>>> to that point) about who can possess and handle firearms on a
>>>>>> production set and when they can touch them just to prevent things
>>>>>> like this from happening, because although they're never loaded with
>>>>>> live ammo, even blanks can kill if fired at close enough range.
>>>
>>>>>> Makes me wonder if that's what happened here or if the gun was
>>>>>> somehow loaded with actual ammo. Either way, Baldwin should never
>>>>>> have been playing around with a gun outside of an actual filmed
>>>>>> scene, and certainly shouldn't have been pointing it at people. What
>>>>>> possible reason could he have had for pointing it at the director and
>>>>>> the DP?
>>>
>>>>>> Although the police don't seem inclined to charge Baldwin criminally, he
>>>>>> should certainly face some kind of consequence for this.
>>>

>>>>> When I first heard the story, I was assuming an actor or an extra had
>>>>> been shot. Then I heard Alec Baldwin fired the shot, and I figured if it
>>>>> was during a take and he was following the shot, then the armorer was at
>>>>> fault for failure to properly test and load the prop weapon.
>>>
>>>>> Then I heard that Baldwin himself is producing, which makes him
>>>>> ultimately responsible for the armorer's failures.
>>>
>>>>> But then I heard... the woman he shot was the director of photography? I
>>>>> just can't imagine a scenario in which a weapon aimed during a take
>>>>> could be aimed at the director of photography.
>>>

>>>>> It's like an episode of Columbo.
>>>
>>>>> I sure don't see how Baldwin's acting career can survive.
>>>

>>>> "Gun-safety protocol on sets in the United States has improved since
>>>> then, said Steven Hall, a veteran director of photography in Britain.
>>>> But he said one of the riskiest positions to be in is behind the camera
>>>> because that person is in the line of fire in scenes where an actor
>>>> appears to point a gun at the audience."
>>>
>>> They weren't in production. It was between takes, but yes, I see the
>>> point about how DURING PRODUCTION the camera operator could be in the
>>> line of fire.
>>>
>>>> The real question is how he managed to shoot two people. That suggests
>>>> a live round.
>>>
>>> You don't think he shot off multiple rounds? I think that's what
>>> shooting two different people suggests.
>>>
>>

>> Given that it seems to be an accident the most likely cause for two
>> people getting shot is that the bullets passed through one victim and
>> hit another person. That's something TV misses in human shield scenarios.
>

> Hey, Gibbs deliberately shot Agent Lee on NCIS to get the terrorist
> holding her hostage. She was a traitor, and gave him the nod to do it,
> both of them knowing she would be killed. But this season he shot from
> behind the guy holding Kasie hostage, and she was okay. She made a point
> of telling Gary Cole that he should do the same if that ever happened
> again.
>
> On the other hand, a character was shot in the head from about a foot
> behind her on Rizzoli & Isles,

Please tell me it was her mother.



--

[danny burstein]

In <1534491508.656632852.9...@news.easynews.com> anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> writes:

[snip]

>>> Given that it seems to be an accident the most likely cause for two
>>> people getting shot is that the bullets passed through one victim and
>>> hit another person. That's something TV misses in human shield scenarios.
>>
>> Hey, Gibbs deliberately shot Agent Lee on NCIS to get the terrorist
>> holding her hostage. She was a traitor, and gave him the nod to do it,
>> both of them knowing she would be killed. But this season he shot from
>> behind the guy holding Kasie hostage, and she was okay. She made a point
>> of telling Gary Cole that he should do the same if that ever happened
>> again.
>>
>> On the other hand, a character was shot in the head from about a foot
>> behind her on Rizzoli & Isles,

>Please tell me it was her mother.

With only one day left in the week, it sure looks like
we've got a winner.

>--
>“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

[Adam H. Kerman]

'Rust' Production Was Chaotic Prior to Fatal Prop Gun Accident,
Producers Launch Internal Safety Review
by Pat Saperstein
Variety
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/rust-crew-members-safety-issues-alec-baldwin-1235095828/

[anim8rfsk]

I’m pretty sure there was one were the gun shot backwards…

—

[Adam H. Kerman]

>I'm pretty sure there was one were the gun shot backwards...

That I recall. That was a Lovelace episode.

[anim8rfsk]

He might hit you while aiming at me.

[anim8rfsk]

Yeah, the journalists use of both the terms “prop gun” and “misfire” seem
to be indefensible.

[moviePig]

Isn't the armorer a person, and therefore capable of error ...or laxity?

And, if the armorer is supposed to check a weapon each time it's handed
to an actor, wouldn't we expect the armorer to present on the set and
serving as redundant assurance that the check was performed?

[David Johnston]

People don't magically become bulletproof if they are behind the camera
instead of in front of it.

[David Johnston]

On 2021-10-22 4:59 p.m., RichA wrote:
> On Thursday, 21 October 2021 at 23:12:02 UTC-4, RichA wrote:
>> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>
> I think the main problem is Baldwin himself. They put a gun in the hand of a left-liberal. What did they think would happen?
> BTW, he said: "I'm fully co-operating with the police investigation to address how this tragedy occurred."
> How? He POINTED a gun and pulled the trigger. Lets say it was loaded with a blank. Do you know what a cotton wadding
> traveling at 1500fps can do?

Can it shoot through someone and injure someone else?

[Horace LaBadie]

In article
<1534491508.656632852.9...@news.easynews.com>,

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

> > On the other hand, a character was shot in the head from about a foot
> > behind her on Rizzoli & Isles,
>
> Please tell me it was her mother.

Sorry, all the horrible mothers in that show survived, even Sharon
Lawrence. Jackie Bisset seemed to just disappear, though.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Horace LaBadie <hlab...@nospam.com> wrote:
>anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

>>>On the other hand, a character was shot in the head from about a foot
>>>behind her on Rizzoli & Isles,

>>Please tell me it was her mother.

>Sorry, all the horrible mothers in that show survived, even Sharon
>Lawrence. Jackie Bisset seemed to just disappear, though.

I just saw her, late 30s, robbing the cradle with Andrew McCarthy (lucky
boy) in erotic love scenes in Class (1983). Miss Bisset was one of the
most beautiful actresses ever. ePix if anyone cares.

[RichA]

On Thursday, 21 October 2021 at 23:12:02 UTC-4, RichA wrote:
> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/

Claim: Gun ruled "safe" by assistant director who handed it to Baldwin. It's a Western. The gun would be a single-action revolver.
With a single-action revolver, the ammunition held within is clearly visible from the front and if the loading lever is opened. "Safe" with
a gun means unloaded. Not loaded with blanks or live ammo. In addition, the gun breach should be OPEN in order to declare it fully-safe.
The guy who handled it would then PROVE it safe in FRONT of whomever he was handing it to, by showing the open breach and by
manually looking into the barrel from the rear side to see it was not blocked. In addition, the gun at NO time would be pointed at someone
not in the actual scene. Despite guns being brandished as fictionally working in a scene being shot, there was no purposed to pointing at
one of the camera crew and pulling a trigger. Also, you cannot "accidentally discharge" a single-action revolver (what they used in the old West)
unless it is cocked to fire.

CNN:
The gun that actor Alec Baldwin fired on set, killing a woman, was handed to him by an assistant director who told him it was safe, court records show.
The unnamed director did not know the prop contained live ammunition and indicated it was unloaded by shouting "cold gun!", the records say.
Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was fatally shot in the chest in Thursday's incident on the set of the film Rust.

[anim8rfsk]

Miss good thighs?

[anim8rfsk]

Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

I remember her idiot agent for some reason denying that she ever had or
ever would appeared nudely naked which resulted in said pictures becoming
widespread.

—

[Your Name]

On 2021-10-22 03:12:00 +0000, RichA said:

> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>

These days there's simply no need at all for guns (or explosives,
inlcuding the blood-spurts and broken windows for bullet hits) of *any*
kind on a TV / movie set, including a supposedly "safe" prop gun.

All they need is a plastic model and insert everything else in post-production.

[BTR1701]

Not every show or movie has the budget for realistic CGI.

[trotsky]

On 10/22/2021 9:45 AM, RichA wrote:

>> It's like an episode of Columbo.
>>
>> I sure don't see how Baldwin's acting career can survive.
>
> First picture of Baldwin, he's on the phone after the shooting. Probably to his lawyer.

Who the fuck would you call you fucking douchebag? A priest? That you
know in the Biblical sense?

[trotsky]

On 10/22/2021 11:50 AM, anim8rfsk wrote:

> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, 21 October 2021 at 23:12:02 UTC-4, RichA wrote:
>>> https://deadline.com/2021/10/alec-baldwin-movie-fatal-shooting-director-crew-member-dead-rust-1234860500/
>>

>> Pointed gun at a camera person? Did she catch his bad side?
>>
>> "Criminal negligence — when the homicide was the result of an act or a
>> failure to act that showed wanton or reckless disregard for the lives of
>> others. An act is generally considered negligent if a reasonable person
>> would have foreseen that the action would endanger a life"
>>
>

> If in as his capacity as producer Baldwin ordered the armorer to give him a
> loaded weapon against all safety protocols he could well be in trouble.


Sure, and you could go home an eat another plate of bullshit. Same
difference.

[trotsky]

On 10/22/2021 5:31 PM, super70s wrote:
> BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>> In article
>> <super70s-1AAD72...@reader02.eternal-september.org>,
>> super70s <supe...@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <skuhft$uff$1...@dont-email.me>,

>>> "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>

>>>> The reason this is so very uncommon on movie sets is because actors
>>>> are known to be stupid, not sober, and stupid whilst sober and not
>>>> sober, so there is an employee called the armorer who retains all
>>>> the weapons and doesn't hand them to the actors till it's time to go
>>>> into production. Actors aren't allowed to load and unload their
>>>> weapons either 'cuz actors are stupid.
>>>
>>> This might not have been human negligence on either Baldwin's or his
>>> armorer's part, the gun could have just fired for some arbitrary
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> This is of course why the gun lobby has ordered the Republican party
>>> to pass laws to protect gun manufacturers from being sued and prevent
>>> guns from being treated like any other consumer product.
>>
>> (1) Guns don't just fire for no reason. Unless you're arguing the gun is
>> possessed by a demon or something, it's just an inanimate object. A gun
>> doesn't spontaneously fire any more than your car spontaneously starts
>> up and drives around the block a few times during the night.
>
> I'm arguing guns are subject to manufacturing defects like anything else
> that is designed and made by humans, there's no good reason why they
> should get special treatment under the law.


I'm arguing that you're pulling something out of your ass as usual.

[trotsky]

On 10/22/2021 5:38 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2021 at 10:36:17 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <a...@chinet.com>

> I talked to a few actor friends about this today and they said that in any
> production involving firearms,

How's Kevin Sorbo doing these days?

[trotsky]

On 10/22/2021 5:39 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Oct 22, 2021 at 3:31:53 PM PDT, "super70s" <supe...@super70s.invalid>

> wrote:
>
>> BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <super70s-1AAD72...@reader02.eternal-september.org>,
>>> super70s <supe...@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <skuhft$uff$1...@dont-email.me>,

>>>> "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>

>>>>> The reason this is so very uncommon on movie sets is because actors
>>>>> are known to be stupid, not sober, and stupid whilst sober and not
>>>>> sober, so there is an employee called the armorer who retains all
>>>>> the weapons and doesn't hand them to the actors till it's time to go
>>>>> into production. Actors aren't allowed to load and unload their
>>>>> weapons either 'cuz actors are stupid.
>>>>
>>>> This might not have been human negligence on either Baldwin's or his
>>>> armorer's part, the gun could have just fired for some arbitrary
>>>> reason.
>>>>
>>>> This is of course why the gun lobby has ordered the Republican party
>>>> to pass laws to protect gun manufacturers from being sued and prevent
>>>> guns from being treated like any other consumer product.
>>>
>>> (1) Guns don't just fire for no reason. Unless you're arguing the gun is
>>> possessed by a demon or something, it's just an inanimate object. A gun
>>> doesn't spontaneously fire any more than your car spontaneously starts
>>> up and drives around the block a few times during the night.
>>
>> I'm arguing guns are subject to manufacturing defects like anything else
>> that is designed and made by humans, there's no good reason why they
>> should get special treatment under the law.
>

> If they're *actually* defective, they don't get special treatment.


Just like Republicans!

[trotsky]

On 10/22/2021 5:43 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Oct 22, 2021 at 3:38:13 PM PDT, "BTR1701" <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 21, 2021 at 10:36:17 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <a...@chinet.com>

>> production involving firearms, it's made clear to the actors that it's their
>> responsibility to check the firearm with the armorer every time it's handed
>> to
>> them to ensure it's either unloaded or loaded with the proper dummy
>> ammunition.
>>
>> So Baldwin really has no excuse for what happened here. It was his
>> affirmative
>> duty to check every firearm he handled on set and he obviously didn't do it
>> in
>> this case.
>

> And here's a director saying the same thing:
>
> https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1451613080648130566?s=20

"Robby Starbuck" responding to the NY Post, the pinnacle of credibility!!

[trotsky]

Who is "Robby Starbuck" anyway? Did he direct a Planter's Peanuts
commerical maybe. Or Planter's Warts?