Battlestar Galactica - two earths (spoilers)
Richard Fangnail
Earth and it had burntout buildings and even a thing that might have
been Brooklyn Bridge. But in the season finale they really found
Earth. If that's true, what was the burntout planet?
Sean Walsh
wrote:
The 1st Earth they found *was* the Earth that the 13th Tribe left to
find - they populated it and eventually destroyed in a nuclear war,
2000 before the events of the series.
The 2nd Earth they found was a habitable planet......the planet that
ends up becoming *our* Earth.
--
Sean
Hunter
---
The first planet, the one that was burnt out was the first, original
Earth. The second planet that was beautiful and full of life is our
Earth. This planet is named after the original. Whom ever was the
force guiding the Fleet to the Original Earth meant it as a warning to
both the rebel Cylons and the humans to cooperate with each other or
end up like what happened on Original Earth, end up killing each
other.
------>Hunter
"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."
-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
Mason Barge
<richard...@excite.com> wrote:
You aren't the only person who thinks the end of the series was a confused
hot mess.
Richard Fangnail
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 12:16:33 -0800 (PST), Richard Fangnail
>
> >Near the end of the series they found a planet which they thought was
> >Earth and it had burntout buildings and even a thing that might have
> >been Brooklyn Bridge. But in the season finale they really found
> >Earth. If that's true, what was the burntout planet?
>
> ---
> The first planet, the one that was burnt out was the first, original
> Earth. The second planet that was beautiful and full of life is our
> Earth. This planet is named after the original. Whom ever was the
> force guiding the Fleet to the Original Earth meant it as a warning to
> both the rebel Cylons and the humans to cooperate with each other or
> end up like what happened on Original Earth, end up killing each
> other.
>
> ------>Hunter
In which episodes did they specifically explain all this?
David Johnston
wrote:
Did they need to? They obviously didn't come from our world, and our
world is where they ended up.
cloud dreamer
Hangnail is easily confused by the simplest things.
..
--
We must change the way we live
Or the climate will do it for us
Professor Bubba
<a2ee02c2-7053-4eef...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
David Johnston <davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think he's talking about the made-up stuff about the warning and so
forth. It's a not-unreasonable interpretation of what we saw, but the
warning wasn't stated, and in any case I would question the value of a
warning intended to prevent a disaster 150,000 years or so in the
future.
The original Earth had been subjected to some sort of nuclear attack
only two thousand years before. It seems to have come as a surprise,
even to the Cylons present at the time.
It seems unnecessary to point out that the planet we live on has a
bunch of names, virtually all of them of fairly recent vintage, and
none of them is derived from the name of some other planet somewhere.
Steve Bartman
<bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
>It seems unnecessary to point out that the planet we live on has a
>bunch of names, virtually all of them of fairly recent vintage, and
>none of them is derived from the name of some other planet somewhere.
How do you know?
Did we invent Apollo, Athena, Adam(a), the Thracian region of northern
Greece? The twelve names of the zodiac?
Clearly the writers were intending to say that some memory of these
things lasted (orally?) through about 148,000 years and seeped into
ancient language.
Steve
Professor Bubba
<sbar...@visi.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:37:54 -0500, Professor Bubba
> <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
>
> >It seems unnecessary to point out that the planet we live on has a
> >bunch of names, virtually all of them of fairly recent vintage, and
> >none of them is derived from the name of some other planet somewhere.
>
> How do you know?
>
> Did we invent Apollo, Athena, Adam(a), the Thracian region of northern
> Greece? The twelve names of the zodiac?
Yes, we did. We invented all of those things for ourselves, and for
our own purposes.
> Clearly the writers were intending to say that some memory of these
> things lasted (orally?) through about 148,000 years and seeped into
> ancient language.
I don't think that any tradition, oral or written, could possibly
persist for that long. Besides, I think the last sequence (the one
with all the cute robots) was trying to tell us that we were on the
same road to conflict that the Adama-era people were on, and that a
clash was inevitable.
Hunter
<richard...@excite.com> wrote:
>On Jan 16, 9:46=A0pm, Hunter <buffhun...@my-deja.com> (Hunter) wrote:
>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 12:16:33 -0800 (PST), Richard Fangnail
>>
>> <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >Near the end of the series they found a planet which they thought was
>> >Earth and it had burntout buildings and even a thing that might have
>> >been Brooklyn Bridge. =A0But in the season finale they really found
>> >Earth. =A0If that's true, what was the burntout planet?
>>
>> ---
>> The first planet, the one that was burnt out was the first, original
>> Earth. The second planet that was beautiful and full of life is our
>> Earth. This planet is named after the original. Whom ever was the
>> force guiding the Fleet to the Original Earth meant it as a warning to
>> both the rebel Cylons and the humans to cooperate with each other or
>> end up like what happened on Original Earth, end up killing each
>> other.
>>
>> ------>Hunter
>
>In which episodes did they specifically explain all this?
------
It wasn't explained in one single episode, but it is something that is
shown in the narrative. The beings as represented by Virtual Six (the
Six in Baltar's head that only he can see) and Virtual Baltar (the
Baltar only Caprica Six could see)-let's call them The Powers That Be
(TPTB)-where guiding them all that time and they had them stop over at
old, nuclear cinder Earth via beacon in resurrected Starbuck's brand
new vintage Viper Mk II, just when the Rebel Cylons and humans were
going to be at each other's throats again after the Final Five
revelation.
Then after everyone was significantly depressed to the point of
suicide and finding out what happened to the Colonies essentially
happened on Earth 2,000 years before They started using Hera as a
direct guide to what would be named by President Roslin and Admiral
Adama as new Earth (that was shown in the series finale). Having them
stop over at old Earth instead of sending them directly to New Earth
seems to me was meant as a warning to both the Rebel Cylons and the
Colonial humans as a warning to live together or die. I don't think
they had in mind Apollo forsaking high technology for the simple life
but live together was the message. Whether we will break the cycle of
it "happened before and it will happen again" is up to us, the
descendants of humans and Cylon about to make new sapient machines.
Hunter
<bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
-----
It wasn't stated out right but it was lets call them TPTB-who brought
Starbuck back and she and her brand spanking new Viper Mk II guided
them to the Original Earth right? Then then the Colonials and Rebel
Cylons when examining the remains found out that exactly the same
mutual annihilation crap happened on Original Earth as it did some
2,000 years later in the Colonies. Then TPTB started to guide them to
what we know now as new Earth using Hera and Starbuck. Why didn't TPTB
steer the Colonials and Rebel Cylons directly to new Earth if they
didn't want to let the Colonials and Rebel Cylons see what happened
before? Yes I admit that it is an interpretation but a pretty obvious
one since TPTB had been herding them all this time. However it is a
warning, to us what we do with it is up to us.
Now I don't think that they knew that Apollo would convince everyone
to ditch high tech and start over but yes they showed us in hopes that
we, both human and rebel Cylons would learn our lessons and work
together as one people but we still have free will so if we still
destroy each other 150,000 years later it is not as if we are ignorant
of it. Old Earth destroyed themselves, will you New Earth go down the
same path.The decision is ours.
>
>The original Earth had been subjected to some sort of nuclear attack
>only two thousand years before. It seems to have come as a surprise,
>even to the Cylons present at the time.
----
Yes that is why TPTB as represented by Virtual Six and Baltar steered
them there to shock them. To show them what happened before.
>
>It seems unnecessary to point out that the planet we live on has a
>bunch of names, virtually all of them of fairly recent vintage, and
>none of them is derived from the name of some other planet somewhere.
----
Well the implication is that we get a lot of historical things from
the ancient Greeks and Romans form the colonials something like
140,000 years before and it was passed down through our genes,
something we inherited from Hera and Sharon Agathon, an echo of
projection, hence Bob Dylan writing Sam's song of over 152 centuries
before. It is like having America and having say a Moscow, Georgia
without realizing that is a city in a county called Russia. We don't
know that a Moscow (and for that matter a country called Georgia)
existed before, but it did.
Zombie Elvis
Hunter
wrote:
----
Adtually it is a genectic memory. That is how Bob Dylan was able to
write "All Along the Watchtower" 150,000 years later. We benefit from
the Cylon ability of projection as an echo. It is the same
Adam H. Kerman
>On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:42:43 -0600, Steve Bartman <sbar...@visi.com> wrote:
>>Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
>>>It seems unnecessary to point out that the planet we live on has a
>>>bunch of names, virtually all of them of fairly recent vintage, and
>>>none of them is derived from the name of some other planet somewhere.
>>How do you know?
>>Did we invent Apollo, Athena, Adam(a), the Thracian region of northern
>>Greece? The twelve names of the zodiac?
>>Clearly the writers were intending to say that some memory of these
>>things lasted (orally?) through about 148,000 years and seeped into
>>ancient language.
>Adtually it is a genectic memory. That is how Bob Dylan was able to
>write "All Along the Watchtower" 150,000 years later. We benefit from
>the Cylon ability of projection as an echo. It is the same
If Bob Dylan is a Cylon, why cannot he sing?
Steve Bartman
<bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
>In article <lpd9j6hahkepvsj0q...@4ax.com>, Steve Bartman
><sbar...@visi.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:37:54 -0500, Professor Bubba
>> <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >It seems unnecessary to point out that the planet we live on has a
>> >bunch of names, virtually all of them of fairly recent vintage, and
>> >none of them is derived from the name of some other planet somewhere.
>>
>> How do you know?
>>
>> Did we invent Apollo, Athena, Adam(a), the Thracian region of northern
>> Greece? The twelve names of the zodiac?
>
>Yes, we did. We invented all of those things for ourselves, and for
>our own purposes.
Not in the BG universe. Which was my point.
>> Clearly the writers were intending to say that some memory of these
>> things lasted (orally?) through about 148,000 years and seeped into
>> ancient language.
>
>I don't think that any tradition, oral or written, could possibly
>persist for that long.
I don't either. Unless there were some supernatural assistance at
work. Which the final episode made abundantly clear to be the case in
the BG universe.
Besides, I think the last sequence (the one
>with all the cute robots) was trying to tell us that we were on the
>same road to conflict that the Adama-era people were on, and that a
>clash was inevitable.
Or such a clash was ours to avoid, if we choose.
Steve
Steve Bartman
(Hunter) wrote:
>Adtually it is a genectic memory. That is how Bob Dylan was able to
>write "All Along the Watchtower" 150,000 years later. We benefit from
>the Cylon ability of projection as an echo. It is the same
I just re-watched the entire series with GF (her first), and the final
ep. ten days ago. I had not considered this element of the blending of
the two species, but I think it's an excellent point.
Steve
Steve Bartman
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>If Bob Dylan is a Cylon, why cannot he sing?
Did we hear even one Cylon sing even once, in the entire series? I
can't think of a case.
Maybe they all sound like beagles.
Steve
Steve Bartman
(Hunter) wrote:
>Then after everyone was significantly depressed to the point of
>suicide and finding out what happened to the Colonies essentially
>happened on Earth 2,000 years before They started using Hera as a
>direct guide to what would be named by President Roslin and Admiral
>Adama as new Earth (that was shown in the series finale). Having them
>stop over at old Earth instead of sending them directly to New Earth
>seems to me was meant as a warning to both the Rebel Cylons and the
>Colonial humans as a warning to live together or die.
Also, as a piece of writing, it was very high-wire. "Earth" had been
the viewers' goal for 3.5 seasons lasting, what, six years or so? When
it was shown to be a cinder I remember thinking "Now what?" All of the
climax energy leaking away in that one final Season 3.5 closing shot
of the destroyed city/bridge, and then the need to rebuild new energy
for the dash to the finish.
They didn't need to do that cinder shot. A lesser series would have
had the happy-happy of children and Cylons playing in unbounded fields
of Earth grass, probably with robot puppies. But BG wasn't a lesser
series.
Steve
Anim8rFSK
Zombie Elvis <DELETErobe...@ameritech.net> wrote:
Then where were Hector and Vector?
--
"Please, I can't die, I've never kissed an Asian woman!"
Shego on "Shat My Dad Says"
IAPW
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:42:43 -0600, Steve Bartman <sbar...@visi.com>
> wrote:
> >How do you know?
> >
> >Did we invent Apollo, Athena, Adam(a), the Thracian region of northern
> >Greece? The twelve names of the zodiac?
> >
> >Clearly the writers were intending to say that some memory of these
> >things lasted (orally?) through about 148,000 years and seeped into
> >ancient language.
> Adtually it is a genectic memory. That is how Bob Dylan was able to
> write "All Along the Watchtower" 150,000 years later. We benefit from
> the Cylon ability of projection as an echo. It is the same
The Cylons are the ancient Hebrews, and the Jewish people are the
chosen people because the monotheist God chose them to come to the
new Earth.
Hunter
-----
Nope that was Earth, the original one. It was made clear in the finale
that Roslin and Adama named the second planet (ours) Earth. The First
one was the fabled Earth as foretold in the prophecies.
David Johnston
wrote:
> In article
> <a2ee02c2-7053-4eef-bcc7-cebb5e918...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
Since the premise turned out to be that humanity was caught in a
perpetual time loop where it would do the same exact things over and
over again, bound by supernatural forces, there's nothing odd about
that.
Hunter
wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 13:42:18 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
---
Actually I can think of one time right off the top of my head; when
the Final Five compared notes when they were first discovering that
they were Cylons and found out the same song was in all their heads.
They all whispered/mubled "All Along the Watch Tower" more or less in
tune.
Besides in we found out that it was Sam on Original Earth some
152,000 years ago that originally composed and sung. "All Along the
Watch Tower" so we know he sung. :-)
Steve Bartman
(Hunter) wrote:
>Besides in we found out that it was Sam on Original Earth some
>152,000 years ago that originally composed and sung. "All Along the
>Watch Tower" so we know he sung. :-)
True, but I'm going to maintain that in this off-camera work he
sounded EXACTLY like Bob D. <G>
Steve
Hunter
<bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
>In article <lpd9j6hahkepvsj0q...@4ax.com>, Steve Bartman
><sbar...@visi.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:37:54 -0500, Professor Bubba
>> <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >It seems unnecessary to point out that the planet we live on has a
>> >bunch of names, virtually all of them of fairly recent vintage, and
>> >none of them is derived from the name of some other planet somewhere.
>>
>> How do you know?
>>
>> Did we invent Apollo, Athena, Adam(a), the Thracian region of northern
>> Greece? The twelve names of the zodiac?
>
>Yes, we did. We invented all of those things for ourselves, and for
>our own purposes.
----
In reality yes, but not as the premise of the show's universe.
>
>> Clearly the writers were intending to say that some memory of these
>> things lasted (orally?) through about 148,000 years and seeped into
>> ancient language.
>
>I don't think that any tradition, oral or written, could possibly
>persist for that long.
-----
Odds are yes, especially with population bottle necks that has
happened between now and then. It is supposed to be a genetic memory
of colonial culture that people thought of thinking it was purley
their idea when in reality they were remembering it due to the Cylon
legacy of Hera and her mother Sharon Agathon as increasingly watered
down as it was.
>
> Besides, I think the last sequence (the one
>with all the cute robots) was trying to tell us that we were on the
>same road to conflict that the Adama-era people were on, and that a
>clash was inevitable.
----
As it looks like yes.
Default User
news:ih45bq$hrl$2...@news.albasani.net...
> Hunter <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>>Adtually it is a genectic memory. That is how Bob Dylan was able to
>>write "All Along the Watchtower" 150,000 years later. We benefit from
>>the Cylon ability of projection as an echo. It is the same
>
> If Bob Dylan is a Cylon, why cannot he sing?
Huh. In two different newsgroups, in very different threads, the subject of
Bob Dylan's singing ability has come up. The other group was
rec.arts.sf.written, so make of that what you will.
Brian
--
Day 713 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Current music playing: None.
Hunter
wrote:
>On Wed, 19 Jan 2011 11:10:49 GMT, Hunter <buffh...@my-deja.com>
----
Certainly doesn't look like him. :-)
Oh and that should've read "Besides in 'No Exit' we found out
that...." I meant to go back and plug in the episode title that had
slipped my mind at that moment before sending. I forgot to do that
LOL!
Hunter
<davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jan 17, 12:37=A0pm, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid>
>wrote:
>> In article
>> <a2ee02c2-7053-4eef-bcc7-cebb5e918...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Johnston <davidjohnsto...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > On Jan 17, 11:35=A0am, Richard Fangnail <richardfangn...@excite.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > On Jan 16, 9:46=A0pm, Hunter <buffhun...@my-deja.com> (Hunter) wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 12:16:33 -0800 (PST), Richard Fangnail
>>
>> > > > <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote:
>> > > > >Near the end of the series they found a planet which they thought =
>was
>> > > > >Earth and it had burntout buildings and even a thing that might ha=
>ve
>> > > > >been Brooklyn Bridge. =A0But in the season finale they really foun=
>d
>> > > > >Earth. =A0If that's true, what was the burntout planet?
>>
>> > > > ---
>> > > > The first planet, the one that was burnt out was the first, origina=
>l
>> > > > Earth. The second planet that was beautiful and full of life is our
>> > > > Earth. This planet is named after the original. Whom ever was the
>> > > > force guiding the Fleet to the Original Earth meant it as a warning=
> to
>> > > > both the rebel Cylons and the humans to cooperate with each other o=
>r
>> > > > end up like what happened on Original Earth, end up killing each
>> > > > other.
>>
>> > > > ------>Hunter
>>
>> > > In which episodes did they specifically explain all this?
>>
>> > Did they need to? =A0They obviously didn't come from our world, and our
>> > world is where they ended up.
>>
>> I think he's talking about the made-up stuff about the warning and so
>> forth. =A0It's a not-unreasonable interpretation of what we saw, but the
>> warning wasn't stated, and in any case I would question the value of a
>> warning intended to prevent a disaster 150,000 years or so in the
>> future.
>>
>> The original Earth had been subjected to some sort of nuclear attack
>> only two thousand years before. =A0It seems to have come as a surprise,
>> even to the Cylons present at the time.
>>
>> It seems unnecessary to point out that the planet we live on has a
>> bunch of names, virtually all of them of fairly recent vintage, and
>> none of them is derived from the name of some other planet somewhere.
>
>Since the premise turned out to be that humanity was caught in a
>perpetual time loop where it would do the same exact things over and
>over again, bound by supernatural forces, there's nothing odd about
>that.
-----
What?!? Well, assuming you aren't being snarky there was no "time
loop". It is just that it is possilble that man and machine keep
making the same mistake. Not literally the same mistake but the
conditions for making the same mistake arize every time mankind or
even Cylon kind produce sentient machines. Mankind doesn't recorgnize
the machines as living and sentient beings and the machines not really
understanding what death is and therefore not really appreciating how
precious life is wipe out mankind. The last few minutes of the Series
Finale was the question of if we will fall into that trap too.
David Johnston
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:02:51 -0800 (PST), David Johnston
>
>
>
It's more than that. They keep producing the same names, the same
architecture, the same clothing. History is repeating itself very
literally until we get it right.
SFTV_troy
wrote:
>
> Near the end of the series they found a planet which they thought was
> Earth and it had burntout buildings and even a thing that might have
> been Brooklyn Bridge.
I don't remember this. I remember they found a burnt-out planet, but
didn't see any evidence it was Earth. Perhaps it was a future colony
of our earth, or the planet that existed before earth (although
there's LOTS of evidence humans evolved on THIS planet, not some
transplanted species from some other planet).
> in the season finale they really found Earth.
They did?
Hunter
<davidjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Jan 21, 6:05=A0am, Hunter <buffhun...@my-deja.com> (Hunter) wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 20:02:51 -0800 (PST), David Johnston
>>
>>
>>
>> <davidjohnsto...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Jan 17, 12:37=3DA0pm, Professor Bubba <bu...@nowhere.edu.invalid>
>> >wrote:
>> >> In article
>> >> <a2ee02c2-7053-4eef-bcc7-cebb5e918...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> >> David Johnston <davidjohnsto...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> > On Jan 17, 11:35=3DA0am, Richard Fangnail <richardfangn...@excite.co=
>m>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > > On Jan 16, 9:46=3DA0pm, Hunter <buffhun...@my-deja.com> (Hunter) w=
>rote:
>>
>> >> > > > On Sun, 16 Jan 2011 12:16:33 -0800 (PST), Richard Fangnail
>>
>> >> > > > <richardfangn...@excite.com> wrote:
>> >> > > > >Near the end of the series they found a planet which they thoug=
>ht =3D
>> >was
>> >> > > > >Earth and it had burntout buildings and even a thing that might=
> ha=3D
>> >ve
>> >> > > > >been Brooklyn Bridge. =3DA0But in the season finale they really=
> foun=3D
>> >d
>> >> > > > >Earth. =3DA0If that's true, what was the burntout planet?
>>
>> >> > > > ---
>> >> > > > The first planet, the one that was burnt out was the first, orig=
>ina=3D
>> >l
>> >> > > > Earth. The second planet that was beautiful and full of life is =
>our
>> >> > > > Earth. This planet is named after the original. Whom ever was th=
>e
>> >> > > > force guiding the Fleet to the Original Earth meant it as a warn=
>ing=3D
>> > to
>> >> > > > both the rebel Cylons and the humans to cooperate with each othe=
>r o=3D
>> >r
>> >> > > > end up like what happened on Original Earth, end up killing each
>> >> > > > other.
>>
>> >> > > > ------>Hunter
>>
>> >> > > In which episodes did they specifically explain all this?
>>
>> >> > Did they need to? =3DA0They obviously didn't come from our world, an=
>d our
>> >> > world is where they ended up.
>>
>> >> I think he's talking about the made-up stuff about the warning and so
>> >> forth. =3DA0It's a not-unreasonable interpretation of what we saw, but=
> the
>> >> warning wasn't stated, and in any case I would question the value of a
>> >> warning intended to prevent a disaster 150,000 years or so in the
>> >> future.
>>
>> >> The original Earth had been subjected to some sort of nuclear attack
>> >> only two thousand years before. =3DA0It seems to have come as a surpri=
>se,
>> >> even to the Cylons present at the time.
>>
>> >> It seems unnecessary to point out that the planet we live on has a
>> >> bunch of names, virtually all of them of fairly recent vintage, and
>> >> none of them is derived from the name of some other planet somewhere.
>>
>> >Since the premise turned out to be that humanity was caught in a
>> >perpetual time loop where it would do the same exact things over and
>> >over again, bound by supernatural forces, there's nothing odd about
>> >that.
>>
>> -----
>> What?!? Well, assuming you aren't being snarky there was no "time
>> loop". It is just that it is possilble that man and machine keep
>> making the same mistake.
>
>It's more than that. They keep producing the same names, the same
>architecture, the same clothing. History is repeating itself very
>literally until we get it right.
-----
As I stated before I think that the reuse of clothing architecture and
names is that we got it as a form of DNA memory courtesy of Hera
through her mother Sharon Agathon. The reapted cycle is humanity
making the understandable mistake of not appreciating the machines
becoming sapient. It is a cycle but not a pre ordained cycle but it is
almost inevitable.