Just Another Lovely Day in L.A.

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BTR1701

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Sep 9, 2022, 11:55:50 AMSep 9
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Ian J. Ball

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Sep 9, 2022, 11:58:16 AMSep 9
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On 2022-09-09 15:55:43 +0000, BTR1701 said:

> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>
>
> https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1568066660116107264/pu/vid/480x852/LmA1BzO_tHWVp-7J.mp4?tag=12
>

They allow bets, right?


--
"Who would ever do this to him!?" - HottCiara on DOOL (04-27-2020), asking
who would stab Victor Kirakis... How about ANYONE WHO'S EVER MET HIM??!!

RichA

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Sep 9, 2022, 6:03:00 PMSep 9
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On Friday, 9 September 2022 at 11:55:50 UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:
> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>
>
> https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1568066660116107264/pu/vid/480x852/LmA1BzO_tHWVp-7J.mp4?tag=12

I think even some in Hollywood took notice of the problem. There were at least 4 mentions in "The Big Bang Theory" (in jest, supposedly) about
killing hobos or homeless people.

Irish Mike

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Sep 9, 2022, 7:22:29 PMSep 9
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On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:58:16 AM UTC-4, Ian J. Ball wrote:
> On 2022-09-09 15:55:43 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>
> > Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
> >
> >
> > https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1568066660116107264/pu/vid/480x852/LmA1BzO_tHWVp-7J.mp4?tag=12
> >
> They allow bets, right?

I'm not sure. It's a left-wing liberal Democrat cultural event and, since they created the situation,
I think they'll have the final say about betting.

Irish Mike

kensi

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Sep 10, 2022, 12:14:15 AMSep 10
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On 2022-09-09 11:55 a.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>
> htt<SMACKAK00K!>
Read this, you heartless piece of shit:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/18/california-homelessness-crisis-mojave-desert

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate


trotsky

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Sep 10, 2022, 6:13:10 AMSep 10
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On 9/9/2022 11:14 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-09 11:55 a.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>>
>> htt<SMACKAK00K!>
> Read this, you heartless piece of shit:
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/18/california-homelessness-crisis-mojave-desert


He and the rest of the Oath Keepers just laugh at that stuff.

trotsky

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Sep 10, 2022, 6:16:16 AMSep 10
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Wow, and that show is so recent it has to be relevant!

More syphilitic utterances.

trotsky

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Sep 10, 2022, 6:35:03 AMSep 10
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It's lookin' like "Ed Stasiak" got put out to pasture and now we're
stuck with Irish Troll. Obviously Eunuch Derp has a lot of time on his
hands since he got forced into "retirement."

trotsky

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Sep 10, 2022, 6:39:43 AMSep 10
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On 9/9/2022 10:55 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>
>
> https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1568066660116107264/pu/vid/480x852/LmA1BzO_tHWVp-7J.mp4?tag=12


You'd think the Oath Keepers would be able to do something about this.

BTR1701

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Sep 10, 2022, 5:24:00 PMSep 10
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On Sep 9, 2022 at 9:14:09 PM PDT, "kensi" <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2022-09-09 11:55 a.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>>
>> htt<SMACKAK00K!>
>>
> Read this, you heartless piece of shit:

Oh, no! Some rando on Usenet called me a name. However will I go on?

Here's a clue: I and many, many others in this city have had it with the
"you're not compassionate" crowd when it comes to the vagrants. Call us all
the names you like. Who gives a shit? If it's "heartless" to refuse to allow
people to live on sidewalks and wallow in pools of their own vomit and poo as
they twitch and scream with the effects of their latest meth-bomb or fentanyl
dose, then sure, I'm heartless. Say it as many times as you like, I don't give
a shit.

>
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/18/california-homelessness-crisis-mojave-desert

Better they shit out in the desert than in our beaches and parks. Kids aren't
going to accidentally step on an HIV-infected used heroin needle out in the
Mojave the way they will on Venice Beach. Nor will they be treated to a scene
of a meth-head masturbating for them in front of their school if the guy is
out in the Mojave.

"They treat us like we’re a lost cause," one resident said.

That's because they are a lost cause for the most part. It's certainly not
going to make them any less lost for the government to allow them to camp
underneath swingsets and monkeybars in public parks and provide them free
drugs to shoot up in open-air drug dens. No drug addict ever recovered when
his addiction was fed with an endless supply of free drugs.

...like we’re just bums and alcoholics, like we’re
dirty and they don’t want to see us

That's because 90-95% of you *are* bums, alcoholics and drug addicts and yes,
you're filthy and you foul the environment everywhere you go. The vagrant
encampments in Venice look like landfills, with trash mountains and debris
blowing around in the streets, despite city putting out dumpsters for them to
use. They can't even be bothered to walk their trash over to the can. They
just toss it on the ground around them, then they whine that normal people
don't want them around.

The jug of a gallon she had left had overheated, the water
so hot it was barely drinkable. It was more than 110F (43C),
and no one was around to help. She recalled lying in her
tent, trying not to think about the heat exhaustion and
dehydration overtaking her.

How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up par-broiling in
that tent that day? But somehow it's my job to clean up her life for her.

...banning people from camping in certain spots

"Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in front
of schools and other places frequented by children". Because refusing to allow
vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have to play
Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent ex-cons is
just *such* an extreme position to take.

The crisis has become a public health disaster –
one that advocates say illustrates deep flaws in
California’s homelessness response.

What response? Other than complete tolerance of every conceivable human
degradation, California has no response.

While California is spending an unprecedented
amount of money to address this

Los Angeles alone has spent $2 billion in tax money so far and what have we
gotten for that immense pile of money? The vagrant population has doubled. Two
billion out the door and the problem is twice as bad. Progress!


kensi

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Sep 10, 2022, 10:53:44 PMSep 10
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On 2022-09-09 6:02 p.m., RichA klamed:
> There were at least 4 mentions in "The Big Bang Theory" (in jest,
> supposedly) about killing hobos or homeless people.

[at least 4 citations needed]

kensi

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Sep 10, 2022, 10:58:16 PMSep 10
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On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up par-broiling in
> that tent that day?

Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
"labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.

> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in front
> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because refusing to allow
> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have to play
> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent ex-cons is
> just *such* an extreme position to take.

What a load of bigoted stereotyping.

BTR1701

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Sep 10, 2022, 11:17:38 PMSep 10
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kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up par-broiling in
>> that tent that day?
>
> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>
>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in front
>> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because refusing to allow
>> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have to play
>> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
>> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent ex-cons is
>> just *such* an extreme position to take.
>
> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.

Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to every
manner of human degradation?

Ian J. Ball

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Sep 10, 2022, 11:18:57 PMSep 10
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You realize Seamus is just pure troll, right?

trotsky

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Sep 11, 2022, 5:42:34 AMSep 11
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On 9/10/2022 4:23 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Sep 9, 2022 at 9:14:09 PM PDT, "kensi" <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-09 11:55 a.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>>>
>>> htt<SMACKAK00K!>
>>>
>> Read this, you heartless piece of shit:
>
> Oh, no! Some rando on Usenet called me a name. However will I go on?

And yet you continue. Instance where you're full of shit #1.


> Here's a clue: I and many, many others in this city have had it with the
> "you're not compassionate" crowd when it comes to the vagrants.


Ah yes, another full of shit example where you've been in touch with
"many, many people" about this. Just about as full of shit as the
fattest, stupidest fuck in the world, DJ Trump: "A lot of people are
saying..." and the some horseshit ensues.


Call us all
> the names you like.


"Us" is you and the "many, many people?" That's funny!


Who gives a shit?


You must because you're posting ad nauseum about it. I've thrown up
twice already!


If it's "heartless" to refuse to allow
> people to live on sidewalks and wallow in pools of their own vomit and poo as
> they twitch and scream with the effects of their latest meth-bomb or fentanyl
> dose, then sure, I'm heartless. Say it as many times as you like, I don't give
> a shit.


And yet you're too stupid to move to one of the "free states." So you
have no valid opinion, glad we cleared that up.


>> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/18/california-homelessness-crisis-mojave-desert
>
> Better they shit out in the desert than in our beaches and parks. Kids aren't
> going to accidentally step on an HIV-infected used heroin needle out in the
> Mojave the way they will on Venice Beach. Nor will they be treated to a scene
> of a meth-head masturbating for them in front of their school if the guy is
> out in the Mojave.


Hm, you also seem to be too stupid to mention that a significant number
(a majority?) of the homeless have mental health problems and right wing
assholes like yourself pretend these problems don't exist because you
don't have the brains or balls to deal with them. Instance where you're
full of shit #1000.


> "They treat us like we’re a lost cause," one resident said.
>
> That's because they are a lost cause for the most part.


If such is the case why don't you consider SHUTTING THE FUCK UP ABOUT
THEM YOU FUCKING PANSY! "I'M EUNUCH DERP THE PATRON SAINT OF BITCHING
ABOUT LOST CAUSES." Just finish transitioning already, your testicles
aren't going to grow back.


It's certainly not
> going to make them any less lost for the government to allow them to camp
> underneath swingsets and monkeybars in public parks and provide them free
> drugs to shoot up in open-air drug dens. No drug addict ever recovered when
> his addiction was fed with an endless supply of free drugs.


So you let's see if I have this straight: because you're as stupid as a
bag of dog shit you "think" that drugs are the only cause of
homelessness? Or are you just truncating reality to fit your narrative
the way all right wing assholes do? Instance where you're full of
shit--oh fuck it, I've lost count.


> ...like we’re just bums and alcoholics, like we’re
> dirty and they don’t want to see us
>
> That's because 90-95% of you *are* bums, alcoholics and drug addicts and yes,
> you're filthy and you foul the environment everywhere you go.


Surprise! You're full of shit again. Let's consult the facts just for
shits and giggles:

Causes of homelessness statistics
that the top four causes of homelessness among unaccompanied individuals
were (1) lack of affordable housing, (2) unemployment, (3) poverty, (4)
mental illness and the lack of needed services, and (5) substance abuse
and the lack of needed services.

Homelessness In America: Overview of Data and Causes
https://homelesslaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Homeless_Stats_Fact_Sheet.pdf

Oh look, "substance abuse" is last on the list! A list which that piece
of dog shit you call a brain couldn't even produce. I'll be brusque:
the ignorance and contempt you've shown for this issue and this country
is a far bigger problem than homelessness will ever be. Ask the ten
year old who had to go to another state for an abortion if you and your
ilk are the problem. Ask the kids in Uvalde--the ones that are still
living I mean. You represent the stupid as a bag of dogshit faction in
this country, and appear to be proud of this fact. So proud that you
don't even have the fucking balls to have an actually identity! How
brave! I wonder if you wake up in the middle of the night screaming
because you were dreaming about what a piece of shit you've turned into.
Honestly, I really do.


The vagrant
> encampments in Venice


Fuck all the way off I'm sick of your horseshit.

trotsky

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Sep 11, 2022, 5:52:42 AMSep 11
to
On 9/10/2022 9:53 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-09 6:02 p.m., RichA klamed:
>> There were  at least 4 mentions in "The Big Bang Theory"  (in jest,
>> supposedly) about killing hobos or homeless people.
>
> [at least 4 citations needed]


Don't say that, he'll post jpegs of parking tickets.


trotsky

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Sep 11, 2022, 5:55:05 AMSep 11
to
Hello, Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz called and want their claims to sexual
exploitation of children back! You belong to the party of fucking and
killing kids with automatic weapons just in case you need to be reminded.

trotsky

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Sep 11, 2022, 5:56:06 AMSep 11
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On 9/10/2022 10:18 PM, Ian J. Ball wrote:
> On 2022-09-11 03:17:32 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>
>> kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>>>> par-broiling in
>>>> that tent that day?
>>>
>>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>>
>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping
>>>> in front
>>>> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>> refusing to allow
>>>> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have
>>>> to play
>>>> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
>>>> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent
>>>> ex-cons is
>>>> just *such* an extreme position to take.
>>>
>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>>
>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>> every
>> manner of human degradation?
>
> You realize Seamus is just pure troll, right?


No, he's far too stupid. Thanks for pointing this out girly man!


NoBody

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Sep 11, 2022, 10:36:46 AMSep 11
to
On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 03:17:32 +0000, BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Because *they* are sickos who want to normalize this behavior.

Rhino

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Sep 11, 2022, 11:13:18 AMSep 11
to
On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>> par-broiling in
>> that tent that day?
>
> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>
You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
hardship.

After WW II, Stalin allowed the Soviet Union's theatres to show The
Grapes of Wrath, presumably because leftist film critics praised it is a
stunning indictment of capitalism. Imagine his surprise when Soviet
citizens were overheard leaving the theatres openly talking about
emigrating to America! After all, the Joads had their own car and their
own home and were free to move to other areas in search of work. These
were things that only a very few Soviet citizens had. Private cars were
almost non-existent and reserved for the top Party elites. Most Soviet
citizens were made to share already poor accommodations with other
families and individuals. Soviet citizens had to stay in the district
where they were registered via the internal passport system and couldn't
leave without special permission from the Party, which was not normally
possible. They had to stay at jobs they hated in their assigned
districts. To them, the United States was a paradise of opportunity!

In today's Venezuela, everything is tremendously expensive and it can
take an entire month's wages to buy a few items of food. Stores are
nearly always empty and only get a meagre restocking once a week so
people line up there the night before to increase their odds of getting
into the store right when it opens the next day. But despite large
numbers waiting in line, Maduro's regime packs a bus with its supporters
and supplies a few armed police which arrive at the store a few minutes
before it opens; the police bar the people who had been waiting all
night from entering and then allow the people from the bus to pick over
all the newly arrived stock in the store, rarely leaving anything for
the people who had been in line all night. THAT is how the "socialists"
do "social justice"!


>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping
>> in front
>> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because refusing
>> to allow
>> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have to
>> play
>> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
>> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent
>> ex-cons is
>> just *such* an extreme position to take.
>
> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>
Open your fucking eyes and go see for yourself that it's exactly like
BTR1701 says.

--
Rhino

trotsky

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Sep 11, 2022, 11:21:54 AMSep 11
to
Really? I thought Gaetz and Gym Jordan already did this.

suzeeq

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Sep 11, 2022, 12:00:19 PMSep 11
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On 9/11/2022 8:13 AM, Rhino wrote:
> On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:
>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>>> par-broiling in
>>> that tent that day?
>>
>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>
> You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
> reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
> Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
> hardship.
>
What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
communism.

Adam H. Kerman

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Sep 11, 2022, 12:04:51 PMSep 11
to
Rhino <no_offlin...@example.com> wrote:
>On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:

>>>. . .

>>What a load of bigoted stereotyping.

>Open your fucking eyes and go see for yourself that it's exactly like
>BTR1701 says.

Rhino, there are no eyes to open. It's a seamus sockpuppet. seamus will
put on another stinky linty sockpuppet to argue with you trying to
pretend that the STOOPID and the insults are well supported, but it's
all sockpuppetry.

A sockbutton doesn't have eyes, just bits of cloth sewn on. Your demand
is impossible to meet.

Rhino

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Sep 11, 2022, 12:20:36 PMSep 11
to
I've heard it said by people that have lived in those countries that
they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't know; I
haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about them.

--
Rhino

Rhino

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Sep 11, 2022, 12:23:11 PMSep 11
to
Yeah, I know. But if there are any actual human beings reading these
threads, I want to make sure that "kensi's" damnable lies are challenged
with truth rather than seeing the gullible tricked by "her" bullshit.

--
Rhino

trotsky

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Sep 11, 2022, 12:31:53 PMSep 11
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"Rhino" is stupid as fuck and clearly doesn't know what the difference is.

suzeeq

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Sep 11, 2022, 12:52:39 PMSep 11
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Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs which
actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education and
other social services. It's called democratic socialism which is in no
way like communist socialism.

Adam H. Kerman

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Sep 11, 2022, 12:59:52 PMSep 11
to
suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>On 9/11/2022 8:13 AM, Rhino wrote:

>>>. . .

>>You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
>>reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
>>Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
>>hardship.

>What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>communism.

No they aren't. Think about the definitions you learned in school.

Capitalism: Means of production are privately owned by those in business
to make a profit.

Socialism: A transition into Communism in which there is more and more
centralized control of the eocnomy, the means of production are commonly
owned or owned outright by the state and won't be sold off to private
businesses. Socialism can include a number of transitional systems.

Communism: The end result of socialist transition after which all
private ownership of the means of production has been abolished and
society has become classless without a central state government.

Marx saw the state as one of the means the top echelons of society
maintained control and oppressed everyone else.

Contrast state socilism in which only some means of production have
become publicly owned and the end result is not abolishing all private
ownership of the means of production.

It's kind of a welfare state in part but not entirely.

The United States has a great many aspects of state socialism,
especially all the programs that fall under Social Security -- old age
pension, disability, Medicare/Medicaid, unemployment insurance. Highway,
marine, airports, are generally examples of state socialism. Even with
highways, private ownership isn't abolished and there are a few examples
of privately owned roads.

Other examples of state socialism are regulated public utilities, even
though there is private ownership.

"State socialism" isn't a transition state into communism.

I have no idea how to classify North Korea, which is a complete pariah.
Pretty much society's only objective is to repel another conventional
war with the United States. Everything funds the military, and the
people pretty much starve much of the time.

Venezuala wanted to be Cuba but was massively incompetent.

Are all the countries Rhino mentioned truly making a transition into
communism as envisioned by Marx? I don't think that will ever happen.
But the way socialism has been implemented, it's just another means of
state control of the population who have had liberty denied them.

Adam H. Kerman

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Sep 11, 2022, 1:02:13 PMSep 11
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suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>On 9/11/2022 9:20 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>On 2022-09-11 12:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:

>>>>. . .

>>>What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>>>communism.

>>I've heard it said by people that have lived in those countries that
>>they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't know; I
>>haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about them.

>Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs which
>actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education and
>other social services. It's called democratic socialism which is in no
>way like communist socialism.

"Provide programs which actually help their citizens"? That's not a
political philosophy, suzeeq. That's a straight line.

There is no shortage of examples of programs intended to help but result
in economic damage.

Adam H. Kerman

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Sep 11, 2022, 1:04:02 PMSep 11
to
There is no actual human being behind the laundry basket of filthy
sockpuppets that gets rotated among various Usenet groups. It's just a
trolling entity.

suzeeq

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Sep 11, 2022, 1:27:26 PMSep 11
to
On 9/11/2022 10:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>> On 9/11/2022 9:20 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-11 12:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>
>>>>> . . .
>
>>>> What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>>>> communism.
>
>>> I've heard it said by people that have lived in those countries that
>>> they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't know; I
>>> haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about them.
>
>> Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs which
>> actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education and
>> other social services. It's called democratic socialism which is in no
>> way like communist socialism.
>
> "Provide programs which actually help their citizens"? That's not a
> political philosophy, suzeeq. That's a straight line.

No, it's a socialist idea. Just ask the republicans.

suzeeq

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Sep 11, 2022, 1:30:56 PMSep 11
to
I wasn't speaking in economic or political terms, but more about social
programs.

Rhino

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Sep 11, 2022, 1:33:27 PMSep 11
to
I'm not talking about "kensi" as such a person. I meant other people,
especially lurkers who we never or only rarely see but are here anyway.

--
Rhino

anim8rfsk

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 1:51:59 PMSep 11
to
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>> On 9/11/2022 8:13 AM, Rhino wrote:
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>> You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
>>> reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
>>> Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
>>> hardship.
>
>> What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>> communism.
>
> No they aren't. Think about the definitions you learned in school.
>
> Capitalism: Means of production are privately owned by those in business
> to make a profit.
>
> Socialism: A transition into Communism in which there is more and more
> centralized control of the eocnomy, the means of production are commonly
> owned or owned outright by the state and won't be sold off to private
> businesses. Socialism can include a number of transitional systems.
>
> Communism:

I always liked “a communist is a socialist with a gun“



--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

Adam H. Kerman

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 1:52:46 PMSep 11
to
suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>On 9/11/2022 10:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>On 9/11/2022 9:20 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>On 2022-09-11 12:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:

>>>>>>. . .

>>>>>What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>>>>>communism.

>>>>I've heard it said by people that have lived in those countries that
>>>>they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't know; I
>>>>haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about them.

>>>Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs which
>>>actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education and
>>>other social services. It's called democratic socialism which is in no
>>>way like communist socialism.

>>"Provide programs which actually help their citizens"? That's not a
>>political philosophy, suzeeq. That's a straight line.

>No, it's a socialist idea. Just ask the republicans.

I have no experience with social welfare provided through government
programs which may help a few people in the short term but haven't done
serious economic damage in the long term.

I'll grant that it's possible to have government that's not incompetent,
even possibly in Norway and Sweden. Maybe other states have less
incompetent government. A couple I'm friends with had moved to Indiana.
The wife kept telling me that the move was relatively easy with respect
to changing their primary residence to Indiana on myriad forms filed
with different government offices.

I'm just not familiar with this helpful nature of government.

Adam H. Kerman

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 1:56:56 PMSep 11
to
That social and welfare programs and some aspects of business are
provided by the state to citizens is very much a matter of economics and
politics and cannot be seen in a separate light. The question is whether
aspects of socialization are seen by those who run a country as the
first step in further socialization of more of the economy and further
restricting the liberty of citizens, or if it's just seen as a better
way to provide basic services. It is absolutely a political question.

>>. . .

Rhino

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 1:57:04 PMSep 11
to
That's one of the biggest problems with "socialism": the word has taken
on so many meanings that it's nearly impossible discuss it because each
person in the conversation has a different understanding of what
socialism actually is.

Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
when "people" like "kensi" talk about "socialism" while wanting to smash
capitalism, it's very clear to me that "she" (or soulmates like AOC)
are cheerleading for the "socialism" that was practiced in the Soviet
Union, Mao's China, North Korea and Venezuela.

While the Bolshevik Party eventually changed its name to the Communist
Party, it was strictly an aspirational thing: they wanted communism but
they didn't know how to get there. Marx hadn't known in any detail and
Lenin didn't either. All they could do was to install socialism, as best
they could understand it, and hope against hope that Marx was right in
asserting that after socialism had been in place for a long enough time
- and NO ONE knew how many years or centuries that might take! - real
communism would arise. In the meantime, they told their citizens that
they were "building socialism" and that actual communism would come
along eventually. They even named their empire the Union of Soviet
SOCIALIST Republics to emphasize that.

My remarks to "kensi" were to contrast "her" juvenile fantasies about
workers paradises with the reality of life in those countries once their
"socialists" had come to power. We KNOW what this life was like because
various observers, many of whom lived through those times in those
places, have given us first-hand accounts. We see many of the same
privations in today's "socialist" states like Venezuela and North Korea.

COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK AND NEVER HAS. No one has been able to make
communism work on even the level of a small village except via coercion
- a gun to the head or the threat of being deprived of all food - and as
soon as the coercion vanished, the experiment of communism failed in
that place. The day someone gets communism to work WITHOUT coercion,
even on the level of a small village, then there may be something to
talk about and even try. Until then, anyone talking of smashing
capitalism and implementing "socialism" is trying to sell snake oil and
needs to be actively resisted.

>>
>> There is no shortage of examples of programs intended to help but result
>> in economic damage.
>>
>


--
Rhino

BTR1701

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 2:03:37 PMSep 11
to
On Sep 11, 2022 at 8:13:13 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offlin...@example.com>
wrote:

> On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:
>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>>> par-broiling in
>>> that tent that day?
>>
>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>
> You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
> reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
> Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
> hardship.

These kooks always say that's not *real* socialism or communism, which is why
it failed and there were atrocities.

> In today's Venezuela, everything is tremendously expensive and it can
> take an entire month's wages to buy a few items of food. Stores are
> nearly always empty and only get a meagre restocking once a week so
> people line up there the night before to increase their odds of getting
> into the store right when it opens the next day. But despite large
> numbers waiting in line, Maduro's regime packs a bus with its supporters
> and supplies a few armed police which arrive at the store a few minutes
> before it opens; the police bar the people who had been waiting all
> night from entering and then allow the people from the bus to pick over
> all the newly arrived stock in the store, rarely leaving anything for
> the people who had been in line all night. THAT is how the "socialists"
> do "social justice"!

People in Venezuela are eating their pets.

Progress!


BTR1701

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 2:05:53 PMSep 11
to
And it only worked when they had a homogenous, near universally-employed
populace. Now that they've voluntarily imported hundreds of thousands of
3rd-worlders, a significant percentage of whom refuse to assimilate into the
culture or even work, their socialist system is collapsing. When the takers
outweigh the makers, the center cannot hold.


BTR1701

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 2:23:44 PMSep 11
to
Collectivism: Ideas so awesome they have to be mandatory, and always seem to
be just one execution away from utopia.


Rhino

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 4:26:38 PMSep 11
to
On 2022-09-11 2:03 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Sep 11, 2022 at 8:13:13 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offlin...@example.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>>>> par-broiling in
>>>> that tent that day?
>>>
>>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>>
>> You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
>> reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
>> Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
>> hardship.
>
> These kooks always say that's not *real* socialism or communism, which is why
> it failed and there were atrocities.
>
And yet when you ask them what they'd do differently than Stalin, Mao,
Pol Pot or whoever, they never have an answer. They have NO IDEA how to
make socialism or communism work yet keep insisting it will be AWESOME
if only you will get out of the way and let them establish it.

>> In today's Venezuela, everything is tremendously expensive and it can
>> take an entire month's wages to buy a few items of food. Stores are
>> nearly always empty and only get a meagre restocking once a week so
>> people line up there the night before to increase their odds of getting
>> into the store right when it opens the next day. But despite large
>> numbers waiting in line, Maduro's regime packs a bus with its supporters
>> and supplies a few armed police which arrive at the store a few minutes
>> before it opens; the police bar the people who had been waiting all
>> night from entering and then allow the people from the bus to pick over
>> all the newly arrived stock in the store, rarely leaving anything for
>> the people who had been in line all night. THAT is how the "socialists"
>> do "social justice"!
>
> People in Venezuela are eating their pets.
>
> Progress!
>
>


--
Rhino

suzeeq

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 4:47:22 PMSep 11
to
That's not what I'm talking about.
True commmunism can work in small groups, not in countries. And even
there, only for a short period of time.

Rhino

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 5:39:25 PMSep 11
to
Then what ARE you talking about?
I actually did a full course in Utopian communities in university and
looked at a variety of them in a variety of places. All of them were
small groups, not countries, and none of them lasted more than a few
years before falling apart. Yet the "socialists" who despise capitalism
- let's face it, these people are Marxists - keep trying to make whole
countries become "socialist" (building up to a communism that they don't
know how to achieve). It's insane. If they had a brain in their pointed
little heads, they'd get communism working on a small scale and then
figure out how to scale it up to larger and larger groupings until the
finally hit the size of a province, state or region and it worked
successfully there. Then, and only then, should they ever begin to talk
about doing it and a national level. NO ONE should pay any attention to
them until they can do that much.

--
Rhino

suzeeq

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 7:00:08 PMSep 11
to
Social programs paid for by the government. Education, health care and
all those services the republicans want to do away with.
Yep, that's what I meant by working for only a short time. It's just not
sustainable.

Rhino

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 7:40:52 PMSep 11
to
I was reading conservative media in the US for years and I didn't see
anything that suggested any serious percentage of Republicans were
pushing for that. A few libertarians may have wanted to privatize some
functions normally done by the government but I never had the sense that
this was anything like a groundswell. For instance, I remember some
people thinking that the FEDERAL department of education was a very bad
idea and that education should revert to being ENTIRELY a state-level
concern as it has been before Jimmy Carter created the Department of
Education. But that's not the same as ELIMINATING publicly funded
education by a long shot.
--
Rhino

kensi

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 11:08:43 PMSep 11
to
On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up par-broiling in
>>> that tent that day?
>>
>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>
>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in front
>>> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because refusing to allow
>>> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have to play
>>> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
>>> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent ex-cons is
>>> just *such* an extreme position to take.
>>
>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>
> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to every
> manner of human degradation?

We're not. You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
school bathrooms, etc.) but that's just your paranoia. Nobody is
plotting against the children ... unless you are, and you're projecting.

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate


kensi

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 11:23:31 PMSep 11
to
On 2022-09-11 1:56 p.m., Rhino wrote:
> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
> when "people" like "kensi"

Gratuitous dehumanization noted and logged, ko0k.

> talk about "socialism" while wanting to smash capitalism, it's very
> clear to me that "she" (or soulmates like AOC) are cheerleading for the
> "socialism" that was practiced in the Soviet Union, Mao's China, North > Korea and Venezuela.

Nope. Try New Harmony:

https://www.workers.org/2018/09/38915/

From 1825 to 1827, New Harmony [in Indiana], now in the hands of Owen,
attracted many of the most idealistic and inventive reformers of the
day, as well as women and men of the natural sciences. In addition, many
jobless people found their way there, inspired by public lectures Owen
gave in many Eastern cities.

The principles of the community were explained as follows: “Within the
community all work was to be equal. One was to receive that which was
necessary to him. The teachers’ work was to be on the same footing with
the laborer, the farmer the equal of either. All were to perform to the
best of their ability and receive the same compensation.” (“The New
Harmony Story” by Don Blair)

In its few short years of existence, the communist society at New
Harmony broke new ground. It introduced into the United States the first
kindergarten, the first infant school, the first trade school, the first
free public school system, the first women’s club, the first free
library, the first civic dramatic club, and it was the seat of the first
geological survey.

The progressive achievements of this little utopian colony inevitably
became the basis for important demands taken up later by the
working-class movement. The bosses are still fighting tooth and nail
against such benefits and cutting them back wherever they can. To the
extent that they are today more generally available to the workers, it
is owing to bitter class battles across the country. How interesting
that what were at that time considered utopian have now become very
practical and indeed necessary.

Long after it ceased to be a communist colony, New Harmony was a social
and cultural oasis. It was to become a center of both the abolitionist
and the women’s movements.

> Until then, anyone talking of smashing capitalism and implementing
> "socialism" is trying to sell snake oil and needs to be actively
> resisted.

Bring it, kOOk.

kensi

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 11:31:05 PMSep 11
to
On 2022-09-11 4:26 p.m., Rhino wrote:
> And yet when you ask them what they'd do differently than Stalin, Mao,
> Pol Pot or whoever, they never have an answer.

Worker-owned business co-ops. Decentralized governance. No despotic
dictator. No centrally-planned command economy.

BTR1701

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 11:44:39 PMSep 11
to
In article <tfm8nf$nvm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-09-11 1:56 p.m., Rhino wrote:

> > Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
> > implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
> > when "people" like "kensi"
>
> Gratuitous dehumanization noted and logged, ko0k.

LOL! "Logged". As if you're the keeper of some official Usenet archive.

What are your plans for this log of yours, kooky? Gonna sit in the dark
and masturbate furiously over it or something?

kensi

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 11:49:59 PMSep 11
to
On 2022-09-11 11:44 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tfm8nf$nvm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-11 1:56 p.m., Rhino wrote:
>
>>> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
>>> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
>>> when "people" like "kensi"
>>
>> Gratuitous dehumanization noted and logged, ko0k.
>
> LOL! "Logged". As if you're the keeper of some official Usenet archive.
>
> What are your plans for this log of yours, kooky?
You need to change that nym. Using that number while being not only
virulently anti-socialism but out-and-out fascist is an insult to the
memory of Gene Roddenberry.

Until you do, I will refer to you only as "kOok" and variations thereupon.

BTR1701

unread,
Sep 11, 2022, 11:59:02 PMSep 11
to
In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> > kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:

> >>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
> >>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
> >>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
> >>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
> >>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
> >>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
> >>> take.
> >>
> >> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
> >
> > Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
> > every manner of human degradation?
>
> We're not.

Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.

> You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
> innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
> school bathrooms, etc.)

Except when boys are putting on dresses so they can waltz into a girl's
bathroom and go a-rapin'.

https://wjla.com/amp/features/i-team/teen-suspect-found-guilty-in-loudoun
-county-public-school-stone-bridge-high-bathroom-assault

And, of course, the school admin then proceeds to cover it up because a
boy in dress raping a girl in the girl's bathroom is bad for the Agenda.

> Nobody is plotting against the children...

Weird, then, that when the L.A. City Council met last week to vote to
clear out the vagrant encampments around schools (after several students
have been assaulted by vagrants while trying to get into their schools
and others have come down with medieval diseases like trench fever after
having been exposed while jumping over turds in the encampments that
surround their schools), the 'progressive' activists slithered out of
the weeds to stage a screaming protest and tried to shut down the
council meeting so a vote could not be taken. They sure as shit seemed
pretty invested in making sure kids continue to be exposed to filth and
degradation on a daily basis.

suzeeq

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 12:09:57 AMSep 12
to
I'm talking about higher education, whether university or vocational
programs. Though the Dept of Education has also cut funding for preK-12
the last decades or so.

suzeeq

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 12:11:42 AMSep 12
to
On 9/11/2022 8:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <tfm7rn$9q7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>
>>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
>>>>> front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>>> refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
>>>>> the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
>>>>> way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
>>>>> offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
>>>>> take.
>>>>
>>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>>>
>>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>>> every manner of human degradation?
>>
>> We're not.
>
> Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.
>
>> You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
>> innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
>> school bathrooms, etc.)
>
> Except when boys are putting on dresses so they can waltz into a girl's
> bathroom and go a-rapin'.

Where've you been, girls don't wear dresses that much anymore.
Especially of an age that the boys would be capable of rape.

BTR1701

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 12:57:41 AM (13 days ago) Sep 12
to
The particular boy who raped the girl in Virginia was reportedly wearing
a dress or a skirt.

BTR1701

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 12:58:51 AM (13 days ago) Sep 12
to
In article <tfma93$126q$2...@gioia.aioe.org>,
kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-09-11 11:44 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> > In article <tfm8nf$nvm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> > kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-09-11 1:56 p.m., Rhino wrote:
> >
> >>> Adam has correctly defined several forms of socialism - and the
> >>> implications of those forms - in his remarks in this thread. However,
> >>> when "people" like "kensi"
> >>
> >> Gratuitous dehumanization noted and logged, ko0k.
> >
> > LOL! "Logged". As if you're the keeper of some official Usenet archive.
> >
> > What are your plans for this log of yours, kooky? Gonna sit in the dark
> > and masturbate furiously over it or something?

> You need to change that nym. Using that number while being not only
> virulently anti-socialism but out-and-out fascist is an insult to the
> memory of Gene Roddenberry.
>
> Until you do, I will refer to you only as "kOok" and variations thereupon.

Oh no! The Usenet rando is calling me names again. I suppose if I was
six years old that might really be concerning.

suzeeq

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 1:09:43 AM (13 days ago) Sep 12
to
Was the girl?

BTR1701

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 1:34:44 AM (13 days ago) Sep 12
to
Wasn't reported.

BTR1701

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 1:43:30 AM (13 days ago) Sep 12
to
On Sep 11, 2022 at 8:13:13 AM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offlin...@example.com>
wrote:

> On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:
>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>>> par-broiling in
>>> that tent that day?
>>
>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>
> You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
> reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
> Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
> hardship.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtxx07bzesokwr0/Capitalism_Failed.png?dl=0


Adam H. Kerman

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 2:07:53 AM (13 days ago) Sep 12
to
BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>On 2022-09-10 11:17 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:

>>>>>"Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in
>>>>>front of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>>>refusing to allow vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing
>>>>>the kids to have to play Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their
>>>>>way into and out of school everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex
>>>>>offenders and violent ex-cons is just *such* an extreme position to
>>>>>take.

>>>>What a load of bigoted stereotyping.

>>>Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>>>every manner of human degradation?

>>We're not.

>Kid-time drag queen shows called. They beg to differ.

>>You rightists are suddenly seeing threats to children's poor
>>innocence everywhere (e.g., drag queens in libraries, trans people in
>>school bathrooms, etc.)

>Except when boys are putting on dresses so they can waltz into a girl's
>bathroom and go a-rapin'.

Isn't this the story about the father of one of the victims was arrested
for trying to speak out at a school board meeting to counter the
superintendant's false public report covering his own ass and the elected
prosecutor, a political ally of the school board, personally prosecuted
him for disorderly conduct and won a conviction?

trotsky

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 5:01:04 AM (13 days ago) Sep 12
to
Whilst you side with the dystopian assholes. Are you finally showing
self awareness?


trotsky

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 5:48:57 AM (13 days ago) Sep 12
to
And yet, for some queer reason, they never bothered to mention Larry
Craig in bathrooms.


trotsky

unread,
Sep 12, 2022, 5:55:04 AM (13 days ago) Sep 12