Just Another Lovely Day in L.A.

[BTR1701]

Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!


https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1568066660116107264/pu/vid/480x852/LmA1BzO_tHWVp-7J.mp4?tag=12

[Ian J. Ball]

On 2022-09-09 15:55:43 +0000, BTR1701 said:

> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>
>
> https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1568066660116107264/pu/vid/480x852/LmA1BzO_tHWVp-7J.mp4?tag=12
>

They allow bets, right?


--
"Who would ever do this to him!?" - HottCiara on DOOL (04-27-2020), asking
who would stab Victor Kirakis... How about ANYONE WHO'S EVER MET HIM??!!

[RichA]

On Friday, 9 September 2022 at 11:55:50 UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:
> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>
>
> https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1568066660116107264/pu/vid/480x852/LmA1BzO_tHWVp-7J.mp4?tag=12

I think even some in Hollywood took notice of the problem. There were at least 4 mentions in "The Big Bang Theory" (in jest, supposedly) about
killing hobos or homeless people.

[Irish Mike]

On Friday, September 9, 2022 at 11:58:16 AM UTC-4, Ian J. Ball wrote:
> On 2022-09-09 15:55:43 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>
> > Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
> >
> >
> > https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1568066660116107264/pu/vid/480x852/LmA1BzO_tHWVp-7J.mp4?tag=12
> >
> They allow bets, right?

I'm not sure. It's a left-wing liberal Democrat cultural event and, since they created the situation,
I think they'll have the final say about betting.

Irish Mike

[kensi]

On 2022-09-09 11:55 a.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>

> htt<SMACKAK00K!>
Read this, you heartless piece of shit:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/18/california-homelessness-crisis-mojave-desert

--
"To explain the unknown by the known is a logical procedure; to explain
the known by the unknown is a form of theological lunacy." ~David Brooks
"I get fooled all the time by the constant hosiery parade
in here." ~Checkmate

[trotsky]

On 9/9/2022 11:14 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-09 11:55 a.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>>
>> htt<SMACKAK00K!>
> Read this, you heartless piece of shit:
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/18/california-homelessness-crisis-mojave-desert

He and the rest of the Oath Keepers just laugh at that stuff.

[trotsky]

Wow, and that show is so recent it has to be relevant!

More syphilitic utterances.

[trotsky]

It's lookin' like "Ed Stasiak" got put out to pasture and now we're
stuck with Irish Troll. Obviously Eunuch Derp has a lot of time on his
hands since he got forced into "retirement."

[trotsky]

On 9/9/2022 10:55 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>
>
> https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1568066660116107264/pu/vid/480x852/LmA1BzO_tHWVp-7J.mp4?tag=12

You'd think the Oath Keepers would be able to do something about this.

[BTR1701]

On Sep 9, 2022 at 9:14:09 PM PDT, "kensi" <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2022-09-09 11:55 a.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>>
>> htt<SMACKAK00K!>
>>
> Read this, you heartless piece of shit:

Oh, no! Some rando on Usenet called me a name. However will I go on?

Here's a clue: I and many, many others in this city have had it with the
"you're not compassionate" crowd when it comes to the vagrants. Call us all
the names you like. Who gives a shit? If it's "heartless" to refuse to allow
people to live on sidewalks and wallow in pools of their own vomit and poo as
they twitch and scream with the effects of their latest meth-bomb or fentanyl
dose, then sure, I'm heartless. Say it as many times as you like, I don't give
a shit.

>
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/18/california-homelessness-crisis-mojave-desert

Better they shit out in the desert than in our beaches and parks. Kids aren't
going to accidentally step on an HIV-infected used heroin needle out in the
Mojave the way they will on Venice Beach. Nor will they be treated to a scene
of a meth-head masturbating for them in front of their school if the guy is
out in the Mojave.

"They treat us like we’re a lost cause," one resident said.

That's because they are a lost cause for the most part. It's certainly not
going to make them any less lost for the government to allow them to camp
underneath swingsets and monkeybars in public parks and provide them free
drugs to shoot up in open-air drug dens. No drug addict ever recovered when
his addiction was fed with an endless supply of free drugs.

...like we’re just bums and alcoholics, like we’re
dirty and they don’t want to see us

That's because 90-95% of you *are* bums, alcoholics and drug addicts and yes,
you're filthy and you foul the environment everywhere you go. The vagrant
encampments in Venice look like landfills, with trash mountains and debris
blowing around in the streets, despite city putting out dumpsters for them to
use. They can't even be bothered to walk their trash over to the can. They
just toss it on the ground around them, then they whine that normal people
don't want them around.

The jug of a gallon she had left had overheated, the water
so hot it was barely drinkable. It was more than 110F (43C),
and no one was around to help. She recalled lying in her
tent, trying not to think about the heat exhaustion and
dehydration overtaking her.

How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up par-broiling in
that tent that day? But somehow it's my job to clean up her life for her.

...banning people from camping in certain spots

"Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in front
of schools and other places frequented by children". Because refusing to allow
vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have to play
Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent ex-cons is
just *such* an extreme position to take.

The crisis has become a public health disaster –
one that advocates say illustrates deep flaws in
California’s homelessness response.

What response? Other than complete tolerance of every conceivable human
degradation, California has no response.

While California is spending an unprecedented
amount of money to address this

Los Angeles alone has spent $2 billion in tax money so far and what have we
gotten for that immense pile of money? The vagrant population has doubled. Two
billion out the door and the problem is twice as bad. Progress!

[kensi]

On 2022-09-09 6:02 p.m., RichA klamed:

> There were at least 4 mentions in "The Big Bang Theory" (in jest,
> supposedly) about killing hobos or homeless people.

[at least 4 citations needed]

[kensi]

On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up par-broiling in
> that tent that day?

Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
"labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.

> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in front
> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because refusing to allow
> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have to play
> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent ex-cons is
> just *such* an extreme position to take.

What a load of bigoted stereotyping.

[BTR1701]

kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up par-broiling in
>> that tent that day?
>
> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>
>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping in front
>> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because refusing to allow
>> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have to play
>> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
>> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent ex-cons is
>> just *such* an extreme position to take.
>
> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.

Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to every
manner of human degradation?

[Ian J. Ball]

You realize Seamus is just pure troll, right?

[trotsky]

On 9/10/2022 4:23 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> On Sep 9, 2022 at 9:14:09 PM PDT, "kensi" <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-09 11:55 a.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> Come to L.A and see a bum fight on every corner!
>>>
>>> htt<SMACKAK00K!>
>>>
>> Read this, you heartless piece of shit:
>
> Oh, no! Some rando on Usenet called me a name. However will I go on?

And yet you continue. Instance where you're full of shit #1.

> Here's a clue: I and many, many others in this city have had it with the
> "you're not compassionate" crowd when it comes to the vagrants.

Ah yes, another full of shit example where you've been in touch with
"many, many people" about this. Just about as full of shit as the
fattest, stupidest fuck in the world, DJ Trump: "A lot of people are
saying..." and the some horseshit ensues.

Call us all
> the names you like.

"Us" is you and the "many, many people?" That's funny!


Who gives a shit?


You must because you're posting ad nauseum about it. I've thrown up
twice already!

If it's "heartless" to refuse to allow
> people to live on sidewalks and wallow in pools of their own vomit and poo as
> they twitch and scream with the effects of their latest meth-bomb or fentanyl
> dose, then sure, I'm heartless. Say it as many times as you like, I don't give
> a shit.

And yet you're too stupid to move to one of the "free states." So you
have no valid opinion, glad we cleared that up.

>> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/18/california-homelessness-crisis-mojave-desert
>
> Better they shit out in the desert than in our beaches and parks. Kids aren't
> going to accidentally step on an HIV-infected used heroin needle out in the
> Mojave the way they will on Venice Beach. Nor will they be treated to a scene
> of a meth-head masturbating for them in front of their school if the guy is
> out in the Mojave.

Hm, you also seem to be too stupid to mention that a significant number
(a majority?) of the homeless have mental health problems and right wing
assholes like yourself pretend these problems don't exist because you
don't have the brains or balls to deal with them. Instance where you're
full of shit #1000.

> "They treat us like we’re a lost cause," one resident said.
>
> That's because they are a lost cause for the most part.

If such is the case why don't you consider SHUTTING THE FUCK UP ABOUT
THEM YOU FUCKING PANSY! "I'M EUNUCH DERP THE PATRON SAINT OF BITCHING
ABOUT LOST CAUSES." Just finish transitioning already, your testicles
aren't going to grow back.

It's certainly not
> going to make them any less lost for the government to allow them to camp
> underneath swingsets and monkeybars in public parks and provide them free
> drugs to shoot up in open-air drug dens. No drug addict ever recovered when
> his addiction was fed with an endless supply of free drugs.

So you let's see if I have this straight: because you're as stupid as a
bag of dog shit you "think" that drugs are the only cause of
homelessness? Or are you just truncating reality to fit your narrative
the way all right wing assholes do? Instance where you're full of
shit--oh fuck it, I've lost count.

> ...like we’re just bums and alcoholics, like we’re
> dirty and they don’t want to see us
>
> That's because 90-95% of you *are* bums, alcoholics and drug addicts and yes,
> you're filthy and you foul the environment everywhere you go.

Surprise! You're full of shit again. Let's consult the facts just for
shits and giggles:

Causes of homelessness statistics
that the top four causes of homelessness among unaccompanied individuals
were (1) lack of affordable housing, (2) unemployment, (3) poverty, (4)
mental illness and the lack of needed services, and (5) substance abuse
and the lack of needed services.

Homelessness In America: Overview of Data and Causes
https://homelesslaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Homeless_Stats_Fact_Sheet.pdf

Oh look, "substance abuse" is last on the list! A list which that piece
of dog shit you call a brain couldn't even produce. I'll be brusque:
the ignorance and contempt you've shown for this issue and this country
is a far bigger problem than homelessness will ever be. Ask the ten
year old who had to go to another state for an abortion if you and your
ilk are the problem. Ask the kids in Uvalde--the ones that are still
living I mean. You represent the stupid as a bag of dogshit faction in
this country, and appear to be proud of this fact. So proud that you
don't even have the fucking balls to have an actually identity! How
brave! I wonder if you wake up in the middle of the night screaming
because you were dreaming about what a piece of shit you've turned into.
Honestly, I really do.

The vagrant
> encampments in Venice

Fuck all the way off I'm sick of your horseshit.

[trotsky]

On 9/10/2022 9:53 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-09 6:02 p.m., RichA klamed:
>> There were  at least 4 mentions in "The Big Bang Theory"  (in jest,
>> supposedly) about killing hobos or homeless people.
>
> [at least 4 citations needed]

Don't say that, he'll post jpegs of parking tickets.

[trotsky]

Hello, Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz called and want their claims to sexual
exploitation of children back! You belong to the party of fucking and
killing kids with automatic weapons just in case you need to be reminded.

[trotsky]

On 9/10/2022 10:18 PM, Ian J. Ball wrote:
> On 2022-09-11 03:17:32 +0000, BTR1701 said:
>
>> kensi <kkensingto...@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>>>> par-broiling in
>>>> that tent that day?
>>>
>>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>>
>>>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping
>>>> in front
>>>> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because
>>>> refusing to allow
>>>> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have
>>>> to play
>>>> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
>>>> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent
>>>> ex-cons is
>>>> just *such* an extreme position to take.
>>>
>>> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>>
>> Why are all you leftists suddenly so invested in exposing children to
>> every
>> manner of human degradation?
>
> You realize Seamus is just pure troll, right?

No, he's far too stupid. Thanks for pointing this out girly man!

[NoBody]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 03:17:32 +0000, BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Because *they* are sickos who want to normalize this behavior.

[Rhino]

On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:
> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>> par-broiling in
>> that tent that day?
>
> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>

You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
hardship.

After WW II, Stalin allowed the Soviet Union's theatres to show The
Grapes of Wrath, presumably because leftist film critics praised it is a
stunning indictment of capitalism. Imagine his surprise when Soviet
citizens were overheard leaving the theatres openly talking about
emigrating to America! After all, the Joads had their own car and their
own home and were free to move to other areas in search of work. These
were things that only a very few Soviet citizens had. Private cars were
almost non-existent and reserved for the top Party elites. Most Soviet
citizens were made to share already poor accommodations with other
families and individuals. Soviet citizens had to stay in the district
where they were registered via the internal passport system and couldn't
leave without special permission from the Party, which was not normally
possible. They had to stay at jobs they hated in their assigned
districts. To them, the United States was a paradise of opportunity!

In today's Venezuela, everything is tremendously expensive and it can
take an entire month's wages to buy a few items of food. Stores are
nearly always empty and only get a meagre restocking once a week so
people line up there the night before to increase their odds of getting
into the store right when it opens the next day. But despite large
numbers waiting in line, Maduro's regime packs a bus with its supporters
and supplies a few armed police which arrive at the store a few minutes
before it opens; the police bar the people who had been waiting all
night from entering and then allow the people from the bus to pick over
all the newly arrived stock in the store, rarely leaving anything for
the people who had been in line all night. THAT is how the "socialists"
do "social justice"!

>> "Certain spots". Media soft-pedal for "they were banned from camping
>> in front
>> of schools and other places frequented by children". Because refusing
>> to allow
>> vagrant encampments in and around schools, forcing the kids to have to
>> play
>> Turd Hopscotch and Needle Roulette on their way into and out of school
>> everyday, having to run a gauntlet of sex offenders and violent
>> ex-cons is
>> just *such* an extreme position to take.
>
> What a load of bigoted stereotyping.
>

Open your fucking eyes and go see for yourself that it's exactly like
BTR1701 says.

--
Rhino

[trotsky]

Really? I thought Gaetz and Gym Jordan already did this.

[suzeeq]

On 9/11/2022 8:13 AM, Rhino wrote:
> On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:
>> On 2022-09-10 5:23 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
>>> How many exceedingly poor life choices did she make to end up
>>> par-broiling in
>>> that tent that day?
>>
>> Not overthrowing a capitalist system that deems whole swathes of people
>> "labor units surplus to requirements", I guess.
>>
> You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
> reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
> Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
> hardship.
>

What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
communism.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Rhino <no_offlin...@example.com> wrote:
>On 2022-09-10 10:58 PM, kensi wrote:

>>>. . .

>>What a load of bigoted stereotyping.

>Open your fucking eyes and go see for yourself that it's exactly like
>BTR1701 says.

Rhino, there are no eyes to open. It's a seamus sockpuppet. seamus will
put on another stinky linty sockpuppet to argue with you trying to
pretend that the STOOPID and the insults are well supported, but it's
all sockpuppetry.

A sockbutton doesn't have eyes, just bits of cloth sewn on. Your demand
is impossible to meet.

[Rhino]

I've heard it said by people that have lived in those countries that
they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't know; I
haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about them.

--
Rhino

[Rhino]

Yeah, I know. But if there are any actual human beings reading these
threads, I want to make sure that "kensi's" damnable lies are challenged
with truth rather than seeing the gullible tricked by "her" bullshit.

--
Rhino

[trotsky]

"Rhino" is stupid as fuck and clearly doesn't know what the difference is.

[suzeeq]

Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs which
actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education and
other social services. It's called democratic socialism which is in no
way like communist socialism.

[Adam H. Kerman]

suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>On 9/11/2022 8:13 AM, Rhino wrote:

>>>. . .

>>You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
>>reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
>>Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
>>hardship.

>What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>communism.

No they aren't. Think about the definitions you learned in school.

Capitalism: Means of production are privately owned by those in business
to make a profit.

Socialism: A transition into Communism in which there is more and more
centralized control of the eocnomy, the means of production are commonly
owned or owned outright by the state and won't be sold off to private
businesses. Socialism can include a number of transitional systems.

Communism: The end result of socialist transition after which all
private ownership of the means of production has been abolished and
society has become classless without a central state government.

Marx saw the state as one of the means the top echelons of society
maintained control and oppressed everyone else.

Contrast state socilism in which only some means of production have
become publicly owned and the end result is not abolishing all private
ownership of the means of production.

It's kind of a welfare state in part but not entirely.

The United States has a great many aspects of state socialism,
especially all the programs that fall under Social Security -- old age
pension, disability, Medicare/Medicaid, unemployment insurance. Highway,
marine, airports, are generally examples of state socialism. Even with
highways, private ownership isn't abolished and there are a few examples
of privately owned roads.

Other examples of state socialism are regulated public utilities, even
though there is private ownership.

"State socialism" isn't a transition state into communism.

I have no idea how to classify North Korea, which is a complete pariah.
Pretty much society's only objective is to repel another conventional
war with the United States. Everything funds the military, and the
people pretty much starve much of the time.

Venezuala wanted to be Cuba but was massively incompetent.

Are all the countries Rhino mentioned truly making a transition into
communism as envisioned by Marx? I don't think that will ever happen.
But the way socialism has been implemented, it's just another means of
state control of the population who have had liberty denied them.

[Adam H. Kerman]

suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>On 9/11/2022 9:20 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>On 2022-09-11 12:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:

>>>>. . .

>>>What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>>>communism.

>>I've heard it said by people that have lived in those countries that
>>they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't know; I
>>haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about them.

>Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs which
>actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education and
>other social services. It's called democratic socialism which is in no
>way like communist socialism.

"Provide programs which actually help their citizens"? That's not a
political philosophy, suzeeq. That's a straight line.

There is no shortage of examples of programs intended to help but result
in economic damage.

[Adam H. Kerman]

There is no actual human being behind the laundry basket of filthy
sockpuppets that gets rotated among various Usenet groups. It's just a
trolling entity.

[suzeeq]

On 9/11/2022 10:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>> On 9/11/2022 9:20 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>> On 2022-09-11 12:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:
>
>>>>> . . .
>
>>>> What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>>>> communism.
>
>>> I've heard it said by people that have lived in those countries that
>>> they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't know; I
>>> haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about them.
>
>> Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs which
>> actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education and
>> other social services. It's called democratic socialism which is in no
>> way like communist socialism.
>
> "Provide programs which actually help their citizens"? That's not a
> political philosophy, suzeeq. That's a straight line.

No, it's a socialist idea. Just ask the republicans.

[suzeeq]

I wasn't speaking in economic or political terms, but more about social
programs.

[Rhino]

I'm not talking about "kensi" as such a person. I meant other people,
especially lurkers who we never or only rarely see but are here anyway.

--
Rhino

[anim8rfsk]

Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>> On 9/11/2022 8:13 AM, Rhino wrote:
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>> You think capitalism is bad? Just wait until you try "socialism"! Try
>>> reading a book about life in Stalin's Soviet Union, Mao's China, North
>>> Korea, Cuba or Venezuela under Chavez and Maduro and you'll see REAL
>>> hardship.
>
>> What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>> communism.
>
> No they aren't. Think about the definitions you learned in school.
>
> Capitalism: Means of production are privately owned by those in business
> to make a profit.
>
> Socialism: A transition into Communism in which there is more and more
> centralized control of the eocnomy, the means of production are commonly
> owned or owned outright by the state and won't be sold off to private
> businesses. Socialism can include a number of transitional systems.
>
> Communism:

I always liked “a communist is a socialist with a gun“



--
The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it is still on my list.

[Adam H. Kerman]

suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>On 9/11/2022 10:02 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>suzeeq <su...@imbris.com> wrote:
>>>On 9/11/2022 9:20 AM, Rhino wrote:
>>>>On 2022-09-11 12:00 PM, suzeeq wrote:

>>>>>>. . .

>>>>>What about Norway and Sweden? They're socialist countries without the
>>>>>communism.

>>>>I've heard it said by people that have lived in those countries that
>>>>they are MORE capitalist than Canada or America are. I don't know; I
>>>>haven't visited either country nor have I read that much about them.

>>>Yes, but they're also socialist in that they provide programs which
>>>actually help their citizens. Medical, post secondary education and
>>>other social services. It's called democratic socialism which is in no
>>>way like communist socialism.

>>"Provide programs which actually help their citizens"? That's not a
>>political philosophy, suzeeq. That's a straight line.

>No, it's a socialist idea. Just ask the republicans.

I have no experience with social welfare provided through government
programs which may help a few people in the short term but haven't done
serious economic damage in the long term.

I'll grant that it's possible to have government that's not incompetent,
even possibly in Norway and Sweden. Maybe other states have less
incompetent government. A couple I'm friends with had moved to Indiana.
The wife kept telling me that the move was relatively easy with respect
to changing their primary residence to Indiana on myriad forms filed
with different government offices.

I'm just not familiar with this helpful nature of government.