It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.

[FPP]

It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.

> "My first day in office, I am going to ask Congress to put a bill on my desk getting rid of this disastrous law and replacing it with reforms that expand choice, freedom, affordability," said Trump on Oct. 25, a day after he St. Augustine speech, in Sanford, Florida.
>
> "You're going to have such great health care at a tiny fraction of the cost. And it's going to be so easy."

Sooooo eeeasy...

Donald Trump:
> "So easy."
> "So much winning!"

Mitch McConnell:
> "This is clearly a disappointing moment."
> "It is time to move on.
Repeal and Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul - even with
Republicans controlling the Senate, the House, and the White House.

They had the majorities, they had the ability. What they didn't have
was a plan to replace Obamacare.

And that's because the Republican plan has *always* been Obamacare. Ask
The Heritage Foundation. Ask Mitt Romney.
--
Sign on Donald Trump's desk: "Whose buck is this? I think Obama left
this here." - S. Colbert

[Ubiquitous]

In article <olet05$m32$1...@dont-email.me>, fred...@gmail.com wrote:

>It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
>And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.

And you posted this off-topic article here because?

--
Dems & the media want Trump to be more like Obama, but then he'd
have to audit liberals & wire tap reporters' phones.

[FPP]

On 7/28/17 7:01 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
> In article <olet05$m32$1...@dont-email.me>, fred...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
>> And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.
>
> And you posted this off-topic article here because?

IDIOT-O-METER

5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *Watching Fox News... for NEWS.
0* -*- *Cutting and Pasting Fox
transcripts.
* |\ *Re-directing posts to other
groups.
* \ *Quoting Right Wing Loonies as fact.
* \ *Sockpuppet NoBody.
* _\/ *Fake #FakeNews Hashtag.
* * *Believing Republicans Could Repeal or
Replace Anything!

[trotsky]

On 7/28/2017 6:05 AM, FPP wrote:
> On 7/28/17 7:01 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>> In article <olet05$m32$1...@dont-email.me>, fred...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
>>> And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.
>>
>> And you posted this off-topic article here because?
>
> IDIOT-O-METER
>
> 5* 6* *7
> 4* *8
> 3* *9
> 2* *10
> 1* | *Watching Fox News... for NEWS.
> 0* -*- *Cutting and Pasting Fox
> transcripts.
> * |\ *Re-directing posts to other
> groups.
> * \ *Quoting Right Wing Loonies as
> fact.
> * \ *Sockpuppet NoBody.
> * _\/ *Fake #FakeNews Hashtag.
> * * *Believing Republicans Could Repeal or
> Replace Anything!

If this were feudal Japan they would be obligated to gut themselves with
their own swords.

[trotsky]

The MSM seems to have missed that point.

[NoBody]

On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 04:39:19 -0400, FPP <fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

>It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
>And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.
>
>> "My first day in office, I am going to ask Congress to put a bill on my desk getting rid of this disastrous law and replacing it with reforms that expand choice, freedom, affordability," said Trump on Oct. 25, a day after he St. Augustine speech, in Sanford, Florida.
>>
>> "You're going to have such great health care at a tiny fraction of the cost. And it's going to be so easy."
>
>Sooooo eeeasy...

And you'll probably blame the Republicans when Obamacare bellies up in
a short while.

[Ubiquitous]

NoB...@nowhere.com wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 04:39:19 -0400, FPP <fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
>>And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.
>

>And you'll probably blame the Republicans when Obamacare bellies up in
>a short while.

"Probably"?

If memory serves, he blamed RINOcare for it before they even voted for it.

[Ubiquitous]

thomas.sw...@gmail.com wrote:

>On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 8:01:49 AM UTC-4, NoBody wrote:

>> And you'll probably blame the Republicans when Obamacare bellies
>> up in a short while.
>

> since the GOP controls Congress and the White
> House, the Republicans would be to blame!

QED.

Thanks for making his point!

[Ed Stasiak]

> FPP

>
> And that's because the Republican plan has *always* been Obamacare.
> Ask The Heritage Foundation.  Ask Mitt Romney.

Indeed, and don’t forget to ask the Insurance industry, the Medical industry
and the Pharmaceutical industry, who payed off both the Reps and Dems
and wrote ObamaCare to benefit Wall Street.

Americans shouldn’t be forced to do business with private and for-profit
corporations, who they have absolutely no control over.

ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia shake-down,
with the government acting as the muscle.

[moviePig]

It's what could get passed. And, inadequacies notwithstanding, millions
have coverage now who didn't before. The tug-of-war now is whether to
move forward or to move back. Choose a rope...

--

- - - - - - - -
YOUR taste at work...
http://www.moviepig.com

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 4:39:25 AM UTC-4, FPP wrote:
> It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
> And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.

And the despite all their chest-thumping and pious speeches, the
Republicans have done absolutely nothing about the ever-increasing
cost of health care, which is the real underlying issue. This
has been going on for years before Obamacare, NOT because of it.

Republicans have no problem with the massive administrative costs
or the enormous profits of big pharma. The Phila Inqr did an expose
of big pharma and found that despite their claims of spending a ton
of money on research, they actually do not.

[Wayne]

I think you missed what happened.
With 8 years of Obamacare, healthcare (essentially government paid)
became a "right" in the eyes of the MSM. Any change to Obamacare will
be subject to lies about the outcome. Whine.....10 million people
will lose healthcare.....without regard to more than that losing
healthcare if congress does nothing.

The dems played the game superbly and painted the republicans into a
corner they can't possibly get out of.

[FPP]

On 7/28/17 7:01 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:

> thomas.sw...@gmail.com wrote:

>> On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 4:39:21 AM UTC-4, FPP wrote:
>
>>> It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
>>> And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.
>>

>> This is a *Big Win* for tens of millions of Americans!
>
> Sarcasm noted.

Aw.... poor baby! Does it sting, creampuff?
--
"Fox News is dropping its 'fair and balanced' slogan... I assume because
they finally watched themselves." -Stephen Colbert

[FPP]

On 7/28/17 7:01 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:

> thomas.sw...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 8:01:49 AM UTC-4, NoBody wrote:
>
>>> And you'll probably blame the Republicans when Obamacare bellies
>>> up in a short while.
>>
>> since the GOP controls Congress and the White
>> House, the Republicans would be to blame!
>
> QED.
>
> Thanks for making his point!

They had more than enough votes in the House.
They had more than enough votes in the Senate.
They had their Mad King waiting, with pen in hand.

The result?

All he has now, is his (limp) dick in his hand... which the Republicans
spent the last month tripping over.

Congrats! Mazel tov! You've shown what can be accomplished, by
Republicans, when they control ALL the levers of power in Washington.

Exactly nothing! Nada. Zip. Zilch.
And, now you're whining, and crying because the big mean old Democrats
wouldn't let you have your rattle.

Grow up, creampuff! And get used to it.

[FPP]

Can't disagree with that.

It's a shit sandwich... but the more bread there is in the sandwich, the
less shit you gotta' eat.

[FPP]

People tend to forget... the Dems never intended the bill that got
passed to be the final product. It was the Senate's vehicle, which was
supposed to go to conference with the House and get the bugs worked out.

But when Kennedy died, and Brown took his seat, the 60th Senate vote was
gone - and the only way to get anything passed was for the House to pass
the Senate bill, as is, WITH NO CHANGES.

Had the Dems kept their 60 vote majority in the Senate, Obamacare would
have been a much better bill.

The choice was between eating half a shit sandwich, or starving.
Between getting millions of people life saving coverage, or getting NOTHING.

The Dems *didn't* choose nothing.

[FPP]

*I* have any number of CBO scores showing how many people will lose
coverage if the ACA is repealed.

*You* have a handfull of bullshit showing how many people will lose
coverage if the ACA stays.

And BEFORE you whine and stamp your feet about the CBO score - remember,
Congress changed how the CBO scores bills to "dynamic scoring" - which
favors Republican goals.

And the new head of the CBO is a conservative Republican, who was hand
picked BY THE Republicans to head the office.

You have ZERO excuses. You OWN Washington, from top to bottom.
Try GOVERNING it, instead of making excuses for why you can't.

[FPP]

In the end, the Senate Republicans wanted their bill to pass - but they
didn't want it to become law. In fact, they needed to get assurances
from the House that if the Senate DID pass the bill, the House wouldn't
just pass it, and allow it to become law.

Think about that for a minute. They disliked their own bill so much,
they needed assurances it would NOT become law. I love this
explanation from Vox:

> The argument for the HCFA was precisely that it would never become law. It was proposed as a vehicle to begin negotiations with the House. "The skinny bill, as policy, is a disaster," said Lindsey Graham, a Republican senator from South Carolina. Yet he voted for it anyway. By the end of the process, Senate Republicans were in the absurd position of begging House Speaker Paul Ryan for assurances that he would not let the House pass the bill the Senate was sending them.
>
> This never made a lick of sense: If Senate Republicans didn’t want the bill they had released to become law, and they wanted to write a better one instead, why didn’t they abandon the bill they didn’t want to become law, and write a better one instead? How would involving the House — and giving up control over both the policy and the process — make their job easier or the final bill, in their eyes, better?
>
> There was never an answer to these questions. The bill was garbage, and the process was nonsense. And 49 Republican senators voted for it anyway.

And you wonder why people don't think the Republicans can govern...
Maybe it's because they CAN'T fucking govern.

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

NoB...@nowhere.com wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 04:39:19 -0400, FPP <fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
>>And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.
>

>And you'll probably blame the Republicans when Obamacare bellies up in
>a short while.

Cites?

[Ubiquitous]

In article <olgd06$fri$1...@dont-email.me>, fred...@gmail.com wrote:
>On 7/28/17 7:01 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
>> thomas.sw...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 4:39:21 AM UTC-4, FPP wrote:

>>>> It's over! Repeal & Replace is deader than Donald Trump's soul.
>>>> And so is a straight repeal of Obamacare.
>>>
>>> This is a *Big Win* for tens of millions of Americans!
>>
>> Sarcasm noted.
>
>Aw.... poor baby! Does it sting, creampuff?

Well, there goes that selective reading comprehension problem of yours
again...

[Ed Stasiak]

> moviePig
> > Ed Stasiak

> >
> > Americans shouldn’t be forced to do business with private and for-profit
> > corporations, who they have absolutely no control over.
>

> It's what could get passed.

You don’t really believe that, do you?

The Reps and Dems got PAID to pass ObamaCare and did exactly what
their Wall Street masters told them to do.

> And, inadequacies notwithstanding, millions have coverage now who
> didn't before.

Millions of Americans are being forced to pay out the ass for coverage
they couldn’t afford before and _still_ can’t afford today, because the
fundamental problem of the outrageous cost of health care was ignored,
all so that Wall Street could make even more profits.

> The tug-of-war now is whether to move forward or to move back.
> Choose a rope...

And put it around our neck, as both parties conspired to fuck Americans
over.

[Ed Stasiak]

> FPP
> > Ed Stasiak

> >
> > ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia shake-down,
> > with the government acting as the muscle.
>
> Can't disagree with that.

And yet you continue to blindly support it, simply because it was
“your team” pushing for it.

So fuck the People and common sense, as long as you can score
some points on Usenet…

[FPP]

On 7/29/17 4:09 AM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> moviePig
>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> Americans shouldn’t be forced to do business with private and for-profit
>>> corporations, who they have absolutely no control over.
>>
>> It's what could get passed.
>
> You don’t really believe that, do you?
>
> The Reps and Dems got PAID to pass ObamaCare and did exactly what
> their Wall Street masters told them to do.

Oh, Ed... of course they got paid. By everybody.
You mean paid off.

Yeah, that's a first in politics.

[FPP]

Nope. It helps millions. Some of them are the disabled, on Medicare.
Without the ACA expansion, some of them would be taken out of their
homes, where they're cared for by a loved one.

In some cases, the cuts would mean that those living at home right now,
would be taken from their families care, and shipped to different places
in the state.

The same holds true for includes the sick and the old. Repeal would
throw old people out of Nursing Homes, and back into homes not equipped,
or able to care for them.

That's not just WRONG... that's downright *cruel*. Obamacare ain't
perfect, or even great - but it sure as fuck is absolutely necessary.

[trotsky]

It seemed to work as Romneycare. If it had been tweaked by Congress
instead of the GOP constantly looking like idiots trying to repeal it
who knows where we'd be right now.

[FPP]

Aw, we'd be laughing at Republicans for some other boneheaded policy
they pull out of their asses. Like the old chestnut where tax cuts for
the super rich pay for themselves.

If it wasn't healthcare they were trying to take away from people, it'd
be something else.

Medicare Food Stamps. Social Security. Family Medical Leave. More
Medicare. More Social Security.

You get the idea, right? I know for a fact Republicans do!

[moviePig]

If Wall St. is pulling *all* the strings, then why did Obamacare get
passed but is now being hunted by villagers with pitchforks? Did Wall
St. change its mind? Even malevolent and powerful hidden masters must
have their limits...

[moviePig]

*I* support it because, afaics, it's a move toward a rational
consideration of socialized medicine. ('Rational' means examined with
the same practical principles you'd apply to buying the family car.)

[mog...@hotmail.com]

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 11:59:21 AM UTC-4, #BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
> On 07/29/2017 09:30 AM, NoBody wrote:
> > On Fri, 28 Jul 2017 22:43:12 GMT, a322x1n <vo...@void.void> wrote:
> >
> >> Fred Oinka <stardu...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >> news:960aa7e2-3186-40ef...@googlegroups.com:
> >>
> >>> Here comes total government control of everything in your life.
> >>
> >> At this point, total government take over of health care sounds good.
> >
> > Been to the DMV lately?
> >
>
> If ObamaCare didn't work... and was chaos then 100% government health
> care will only be worse.

Even after Pence and Trump resign in a few week?

[BTR1701]

In article <597c9603$0$51808$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>,

moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:

> On 7/29/2017 4:11 AM, Ed Stasiak wrote:

> >> FPP

> >>> Ed Stasiak
> >>>
> >>> ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia
> >>> shake-down, with the government acting as the muscle.
> >>
> >> Can't disagree with that.
> >
> > And yet you continue to blindly support it, simply because it was
> > "your team" pushing for it.
> >
> > So fuck the People and common sense, as long as you can score

> > some points on Usenet...

>
> *I* support it because, afaics, it's a move toward a rational
> consideration of socialized medicine. ('Rational' means examined with
> the same practical principles you'd apply to buying the family car.)

Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
again how great government run services are.

**Or the VA-- a handy window into the perfect hell of a health care
system run by the federal government. 'Coverage' doesn't mean much if
you die before they let you see a doctor. Our vets are 'covered'. Isn't
doing them much good. (And before FPP chimes in with "But Republicans!",
yes, I hold them all to blame for the VA shitshow. R and D alike.)

[Wayne]

It's still not an apples/apples measure. Why don't we just use your
logic, keep Obamacare as it is and see what happens?

Cleverly, democrats have republicans against the wall to fix a problem
that democrats created.

[moviePig]

Pretending for a moment that a 'rational consideration' could ever begin
with "Great...", please tell me what unique property of our country
renders us unable to support socialized healthcare of a quality similar
to that of nations that have enjoyed one for many years.

[BTR1701]

In article <597cd415$0$10584$c3e8da3$5d8f...@news.astraweb.com>,

Ask the folks at the VA. I'm sure they're well-versed on their 'unique
properties'.

[BTR1701]

In article <597cd415$0$10584$c3e8da3$5d8f...@news.astraweb.com>,

Oh, and don't forget the data breaches. Every government agency these
days has a yearly data breach of some kind. You can almost set your
calendar by it.

Can't wait till all my medical records are stored on systems like that.

[bruce2...@gmail.com]

On 7/29/17 4:09 AM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> moviePig
>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>
>>> Americans shouldn’t be forced to do business with private and for-profit
>>> corporations, who they have absolutely no control over.
>>
>> It's what could get passed.
>
> You don’t really believe that, do you?
>
> The Reps and Dems got PAID to pass ObamaCare and did exactly what
> their Wall Street masters told them to do.

Do you have quotes from experts to prove it?

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 12:51:29 PM UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:

> Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
> preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
> in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
> again how great government run services are.

Actually, my DMV has me in and out in five minutes.

However, my privately run physicians' offices are as you describe
--long waits only to be told to come back. Staff ignoring key
written histories.

> **Or the VA-- a handy window into the perfect hell of a health care
> system run by the federal government. 'Coverage' doesn't mean much if
> you die before they let you see a doctor. Our vets are 'covered'. Isn't
> doing them much good. (And before FPP chimes in with "But Republicans!",
> yes, I hold them all to blame for the VA shitshow. R and D alike.)

Why aren't the Republicans doing anything to fix that? Why did they
do nothing during the last eight years when they had power? Why
didn't Bush Jr do anything when he was in office?

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 3:00:19 PM UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:

> Oh, and don't forget the data breaches. Every government agency these
> days has a yearly data breach of some kind. You can almost set your
> calendar by it.

So does every large private sector company.

> Can't wait till all my medical records are stored on systems like that.

You didn't hear of hospital data systems compromised by a computer
virus? It happened.

[moviePig]

Your point seems to be that the current VA is the best system of this
sort that we're capable of, instead of just another guise of the
red-headed stepchild we've long deemed our returning military. My point
would be that when *everyone's* asses are on the line, the line will be
drawn with much greater care.

[#BeamMeUpScotty]

Admitting that ObamaCare will put more than 10 million out of system
when it fails, is NOT feeding the narrative that the Liberal Media wants
to present. They want you to think inside their box and their box only.



--
That's Karma

[BTR1701]

In article <597ce1ad$0$43852$c3e8da3$5e5e...@news.astraweb.com>,

No, my point is that it's the sort of system we'll get, regardless of
theoretical capabilities.

> My point would be that when *everyone's* asses are on the line, the
> line will be drawn with much greater care.

And... we're back to the DMV.

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Friday, July 28, 2017 at 5:23:41 PM UTC-4, Wayne wrote:

> I think you missed what happened.
> With 8 years of Obamacare, healthcare (essentially government paid)
> became a "right" in the eyes of the MSM.

The ACA provided subsidies so moderately poor people could get
conventional health insurance, and expanded Medicaid so that more
very poor people could get health insurance.

The rest of the people continued as before, though with some
improvements:

--Children could continue to be insured a few years longer than before.
--Pre existing conditions were covered, which previously was a major
problem.
--older people rates' were capped.

> Any change to Obamacare will
> be subject to lies about the outcome. Whine.....10 million people
> will lose healthcare.....without regard to more than that losing
> healthcare if congress does nothing.

The Republicans have been lying about it and refusing to participate
ever since the start. They continue to do so now, but today, with
the Republicans in TOTAL CONTROL, their lies and incompetence have
come around to bite them on the butt.

> The dems played the game superbly and painted the republicans into a
> corner they can't possibly get out of.

Yeah, the Dems painted the Republicans right into controlling Congress,
the White House, and the Supreme Court. Yet Trump still blames the
Dems for his screw-ups.

[moviePig]

...and quite possibly more often than has been reported.

[moviePig]

With the advent of computers, my DMV has improved literally 1000% in the past few years. Moreover, with the medical industry (unlike with the DMV) we're talking about eliminating a vast and greedy middleman. The potential for gain there is too enormous to ignore for a cynical "we always fuck everything up".

[BTR1701]

In article <17aa692e-89f5-46e9...@googlegroups.com>,

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:

> On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 12:51:29 PM UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:
>
> > Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
> > preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
> > in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
> > again how great government run services are.
>
> Actually, my DMV has me in and out in five minutes.

Since they started giving illegals drivers licenses here in Cali, the
DMV here has descended to an all-new level of hell. There's no more
waiting for hours in the chairs until they call your name. Now there's a
line out the door and all the way down the block just to *get* to the
point where you can wait in the chairs. Every DMV office in L.A. is like
this. You can make an appointment on-line, but that doesn't get you
around any of it. I'm not sure what the point of the appointment system
even is.

A friend had to get his license renewed in person because a new photo
was required, and he paid his kid to sit in line for him, then call him
when he got near the front. Kid showed up at 0700, two hours before the
doors opened, and the line was already hundreds deep. He sat there all
day until the doors closed at 1700, and never even made it inside.

Just one more way our fearless leaders in California have catered to the
illegals at the expense of its legitimate citizens

> > **Or the VA-- a handy window into the perfect hell of a health care
> > system run by the federal government. 'Coverage' doesn't mean much if
> > you die before they let you see a doctor. Our vets are 'covered'. Isn't
> > doing them much good. (And before FPP chimes in with "But Republicans!",
> > yes, I hold them all to blame for the VA shitshow. R and D alike.)
>
> Why aren't the Republicans doing anything to fix that?

Why aren't the Democrats?

> Why did they do nothing during the last eight years when they had power?

Why didn't the Democrats do it when they had power?

> Why didn't Bush Jr do anything when he was in office?

Why didn't Obama?

[FPP]

Obamacare (now that Obama is out of office) is enjoying majority support
with the American people.
>
> June 2017 - Obamacare tops 50 percent popularity among Americans for first time in new poll, after Senate unveils bill to gut health-care law.
>
> 51 percent of the public now sees Obamacare favorably.
> Majorities of the public oppose cuts to Medicaid.
>
> There is also strong opposition to weakening federal Obamacare rules requiring certain health benefits, and that prevent insurers from charging sicker customers more.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/23/obamacare-tops-50-percent-support-for-first-time-new-poll-shows.html

Well, fancy that!
When you take the black out of the black and white, it polls much
better, now doesn't it?

[FPP]

When did private Insurance companies become government run, moron?

And how many vets like their care? Look at the stats from 2013 when
Obama was still in office.

> The American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI), an independent customer service survey, ranks the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) customer satisfaction among Veteran patients among the best in the nation and equal to or better than ratings for private sector hospitals. The 2013 ACSI report assessed satisfaction among Veterans who have recently been patients of VA’s Veterans Health Administration (VHA) inpatient and outpatient services. ACSI is the nation’s only cross-industry measure of customer satisfaction, providing benchmarking between the public and private sectors.
>
> In 2013, the overall ACSI satisfaction index for VA was 84 for inpatient care and 82 for outpatient care, which compares favorably with the U.S. hospital industry (scores of 80 and 83, respectively). Since 2004, the ACSI survey has consistently shown that Veterans give VA hospitals and clinics a higher customer satisfaction score, on average, than patients give private sector hospitals.

https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=2537

From "Military Times":

> Poll: Veterans oppose plans to 'privatize' VA.
> Veterans like choice. But they don't like privatization.

Now, go peddle your bullshit lies somewhere else. We're tired of them here.

[FPP]

They did. They've spoken. They don't want private insurance.
Who in their right mind does?

[FPP]

Then why aren't all the other civilized countries with socialized
universal healthcare complaining? How many of them do you see wanting
to adopt the American model of healthcare?

Hint: It's around "0". And it's that high because they don't usually
poll in negative numbers.

[FPP]

Great decision the Trump administration made to put ALL US VOTER DATA in
one convenient location, then, isn't it?

More leftist thinking? Sure it is... sure it is.

[FPP]

I haven't actually BEEN to a DMV in around 15 years. I renew my license
online, or at a local AAA office.

The last time I was in a DMV was to get my son his license, and he's 35 now.

[FPP]

Another stupid argument. Democrats have wanted to tweak Obamacare since
the day it was passed. They're not the ones stopping making changes to it.

Every major piece of legislation needs to be tweaked. Banana
Republicans forgot that... or just don't care.

Now that the dogs have caught the car, they're finding it hard to read
the owners manual, aren't the?

Seven years of passing repeals, and promising the world, and when push
comes to govern - they just can't get it up.

[FPP]

Proof? No?

As usual, then... The crackpot rants, and then retreats back into his
bumper sticker sloganeering.

[FPP]

On 7/29/17 4:50 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article<17aa692e-89f5-46e9...@googlegroups.com>,
> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 12:51:29 PM UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:
>>
>>> Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
>>> preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
>>> in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
>>> again how great government run services are.
>> Actually, my DMV has me in and out in five minutes.
> Since they started giving illegals drivers licenses here in Cali, the
> DMV here has descended to an all-new level of hell. There's no more
> waiting for hours in the chairs until they call your name. Now there's a

> line out the door and all the way down the block just to*get* to the

> point where you can wait in the chairs. Every DMV office in L.A. is like
> this. You can make an appointment on-line, but that doesn't get you
> around any of it. I'm not sure what the point of the appointment system
> even is.
>
> A friend had to get his license renewed in person because a new photo
> was required, and he paid his kid to sit in line for him, then call him
> when he got near the front. Kid showed up at 0700, two hours before the
> doors opened, and the line was already hundreds deep. He sat there all
> day until the doors closed at 1700, and never even made it inside.
>
> Just one more way our fearless leaders in California have catered to the
> illegals at the expense of its legitimate citizens
>
>>> **Or the VA-- a handy window into the perfect hell of a health care
>>> system run by the federal government. 'Coverage' doesn't mean much if
>>> you die before they let you see a doctor. Our vets are 'covered'. Isn't
>>> doing them much good. (And before FPP chimes in with "But Republicans!",
>>> yes, I hold them all to blame for the VA shitshow. R and D alike.)
>> Why aren't the Republicans doing anything to fix that?
> Why aren't the Democrats?

They're not in power. The don't control the House, or any committee
chairs. The don't control the Senate, or any committee chairs. They
don't control the Executive branch.

Great question? Can I help you with anything else, Capt. Obvious?

[BTR1701]

In article <olivam$s2e$2...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
wrote:

They were and they did nothing when they were.

> The don't control the House, or any committee chairs.

They did and they did nothing when they did.

> The don't control the Senate, or any committee chairs.

They did and they did nothing when they did.

> They don't control the Executive branch.

They did and they did nothing when they did.

As I said before, I blame everyone of those bastards in both branches of
government, both parties, for the inexcusable state of the VA.

hancock, however, wants to pretend it was only Republicans who are at
fault. As do you, apparently.

[Ed Stasiak]

> moviePig

>
> *I* support it because, afaics, it's a move toward a rational consideration
> of socialized medicine.

But it’s not socialized medicine, it’s straight up capitalist corporate medicine,
the primary motive of which is profit above all.

> (‘Rational' means examined with the same practical principles you'd apply
> to buying the family car.)

The government isn’t forcing you to buy a car (yet…)

[BTR1701]

In article <oliuc8$ol1$3...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Because they're not the US. Maybe their DMVs function just fine, too,
for all I know. Or maybe they're just used to being told to wait six
months to see a doctor for a lump that will kill them in four, and it's
all they've ever known so they don't complain.

As for those 'civilized' countries, they can keep their Charlie Gard
death panels. We don't need any of that shite here.

[BTR1701]

In article <oliufh$ol1$4...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
wrote:

It's not conservative thinking, either.

It's just more Trump stupidity.

[BTR1701]

In article <oliu80$ol1$2...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
wrote:

The asshat bureaucrats who have destroyed the VA have spoken? And I'm
supposed to care what they say, as if it's authoritative? I'm supposed
to care whether they want private insurance or not?

[Ed Stasiak]

> bruce2...@gmail.com
> > Ed Stasiak

> > The Reps and Dems got PAID to pass ObamaCare and did exactly
> > what their Wall Street masters told them to do.
>
> Do you have quotes from experts to prove it?

http://imgur.com/1F47zAv

[BTR1701]

In article <oliu60$ol1$1...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > The American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI), an independent customer
> > service survey, ranks the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) customer
> > satisfaction among Veteran patients among the best in the nation

It's hard for vets who died waiting for care to take a survey. They
probably wouldn't be all that satisfied with their service if they
could, you know, speak.

[Ed Stasiak]

> BTR1701

>
> > Actually, my DMV has me in and out in five minutes.
>
> Since they started giving illegals drivers licenses here in Cali,
> the DMV here has descended to an all-new level of hell.

Here in metro Detroit, the Sec.of State closed down all the small offices
with 3-4 girls who got you in and out in no time and consolidated them
into fewer huge offices, which saved payroll/pension and operation costs

Now we have electronic kiosks at the front door, where you enter your info
and phone number and they’ll text you 15-20mins or so before you need to
get in line (where the wait is still a lot longer than before). Of course this
leaves you sitting in the parking lot with nothing to do until you get the text,
but it’s better then standing in line.

Now if the DMV’s office was privatized and profit motivated, we could do it all
quickly and easily on-line!… but we’d be paying per month what we currently
pay per year.

[Ed Stasiak]

> FPP

>
> Then why aren't all the other civilized countries with socialized
> universal healthcare complaining?

There’s plenty to complain about but it’s still better by a long shot
then Wall Street extortion that is ObamaCare.

[Ed Stasiak]

> FPP

>
> Democrats have wanted to tweak Obamacare since
> the day it was passed.

The only “tweak” needed is eliminating the individual mandate.

[Ed Stasiak]

> BTR1701

>
> As for those 'civilized' countries, they can keep their Charlie Gard
> death panels. We don't need any of that shite here.

Private and for-profit insurance has “death panels” also, they ain’t
going to pay forever.

When my mom went in the hospice back in 2008, her top-of-the-line
General Motors-UAW Blue Cross/Blue Shield health insurance would
have paid for 9 months.

After which, her Social Security, pension and savings would have to
be used and her house could be sold (which my friend is currently
doing for his mom) but if that wasn’t enough, I would have had to make
up the difference in cost or ship her to a cheeper old folks home and
if all she had was SS, it wouldn’t be the kinda place you’d want to put
your mom.

[BTR1701]

In article <87562e46-09f6-4948...@googlegroups.com>,

Ed Stasiak <esta...@att.net> wrote:

> > BTR1701
> >
> > As for those 'civilized' countries, they can keep their Charlie Gard
> > death panels. We don't need any of that shite here.
>
> Private and for-profit insurance has "death panels" also, they ain't
> going to pay forever.

But these people had the money to pay and the doctors willing to provide
the treatment, but the government overruled the parents and forbade them
from pursuing it for no other apparent reason than to just assert its
dominion over the proles.

[Ed Stasiak]

> BTR1701
> > Ed Stasiak

> >
> > Private and for-profit insurance has "death panels" also, they ain't
> > going to pay forever.
>
> But these people had the money to pay and the doctors willing to provide
> the treatment, but the government overruled the parents and forbade them
> from pursuing it for no other apparent reason than to just assert its
> dominion over the proles.

I believe in Canuckistan and the Caliphate of Britain, you can still get private
health insurance on top of the socialized medicine.

[shawn]

Agreed. At this point the only reason to go to the DMV is to get a new
license, renew one when your current one isn't REAL ID compliant or
you've reached the age where they want to verify you can drive safely
(check the eyesight and such). Otherwise it can all be done over the
computer or by mail.

[FPP]

The Dems were blocked and filibustered (require 60 votes to proceed) in
unprecedented numbers - and you know it. Record breaking numbers of
them, in fact.
But you knew that, liar.

Here are what we call "facts", hypocrite:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/11/charts-explain-why-democrats-went-nuclear-filibuster/

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/05/senate-republicans-barack-obama-judicial-nominees-courts/

Answer your question why the Dems didn't get more done, moron?
Now lie some more.
--
Trump University was a business that gave out business advice, that
literally went out-of-business -Ari Melber

[FPP]

Fucking GREAT answer! Now we all UNDERSTAND!

Maybe their DMVs function just fine, too,
> for all I know. Or maybe they're just used to being told to wait six
> months to see a doctor for a lump that will kill them in four, and it's
> all they've ever known so they don't complain.
>
> As for those 'civilized' countries, they can keep their Charlie Gard
> death panels. We don't need any of that shite here.

No, we have Republicans for that. They ARE our Death Panels.

Answer the question, asshole. You say universal healthcare is SO BAD -
then why do all the countries with it keep it?

How many seniors want to abolish Medicare and go for the Paul Ryan
model? Answer the question, asshole.

How many veterans want to abolish the VA, and go strictly private?
Answer the question, asshole.

You don't see any populations calling for going to a US style private
insurance model, do you?
No one does. Only people like you, who don't care about anybody but
themselves, think healthcare is a privilege.

We call those people "assholes". So, asshole... answer the questions.
How many people in the US and the world receiving government healthcare
want to go to a US style private insurance market?

C'mon! You can figure it out, counselor. You pretend to be
intelligent. Prove it.

[FPP]

Nice oversimplification from someone who pretends to have "legal training".

If you looked at their legal system, you KNOW why they advocated on
behalf of the child's well being, instead of bowing to the wishes of the
parents.

If it has been the reverse - the parents REFUSING life saving treatment
to their sick child, the reasons become pretty clear pretty quickly why
their system functions as it does.

The government advocated on behalf of the child, not the parents,
because sometimes the parent don't have the best interests of the child
at heart. Even when they THINK they do.

Emotions being what they are, parents can't always see what's best - and
then someone has to step in, for the good of the child.

The government just didn't mandate it - it was adjudicated in court.
That's what courts are for, counselor... or did you skip that "Lore
Skool" class too?

[FPP]

And, prior to Obamacare, it was ten times worse.

No insurance for some people, at any price.
Being thrown off insurance for getting sick.
Yearly and Lifetime caps on benefits.
Arbitrary premium increases.
No standards for overage.

Sure Obamacare is the worst American healthcare system - except for all
the previous ones.

[FPP]

Nope. The vets have spoken. Loudly.

[FPP]

And which side supports Trump again? The leftists?

[FPP]

So it isn't government healthcare that's bad- it's the half-assed
implementation of it.
Maybe if Bush's fanciful wars hasn't created so many more vets, the
system might have been able to handle the load better.

Bottom line, the vets still like their VA care, and do NOT want it
privatized.
So spend the fucking money, already, and fund the VA and modernize it's
operation.

[FPP]

Which eliminates the funds for Obamacare. Not a solution.
Why shouldn't people be required to carry health insurance? You have to
carry car insurance if you want to drive.

The law mandates emergency medical care for everyone... so why can't the
law require they be able to pay for it? (Ask Reagan... he pushed for it.)

Why should *I* have to pay for someone hit by a bus because *they*
aren't responsible enough to pay their own way?

It's a fucking conservative idea!

[BTR1701]

In article <oljamd$rmi$1...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 7/29/17 6:41 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
> >> FPP
> >>
> >> Democrats have wanted to tweak Obamacare since
> >> the day it was passed.
> >
> > The only "tweak" needed is eliminating the individual mandate.

> Why shouldn't people be required to carry health insurance?

Basic freedom.

> You have to carry car insurance if you want to drive.

But you don't have to drive. You can choose not to if your budget can't
accommodate car insurance.

[BTR1701]

In article <olj9k9$pg0$1...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>

> > Because they're not the US. Maybe their DMVs function just fine, too,

> > for all I know. Or maybe they're just used to being told to wait six
> > months to see a doctor for a lump that will kill them in four, and it's
> > all they've ever known so they don't complain.
> >
> > As for those 'civilized' countries, they can keep their Charlie Gard
> > death panels. We don't need any of that shite here.
>
> No, we have Republicans for that. They ARE our Death Panels.
>

> You say universal healthcare is SO BAD - then why do all the countries
> with it keep it?

Hate speech laws are also SO BAD, but those same countries choose to
keep them, too. We don't. I'm not responsible for explaining the choices
of people in other cultures.

[BTR1701]

In article <olja0g$qai$1...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 7/29/17 6:59 PM, BTR1701 wrote:

> > In article <87562e46-09f6-4948...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Ed Stasiak <esta...@att.net> wrote:
> >
> >>> BTR1701
> >>>
> >>> As for those 'civilized' countries, they can keep their Charlie Gard
> >>> death panels. We don't need any of that shite here.
> >>
> >> Private and for-profit insurance has "death panels" also, they ain't
> >> going to pay forever.
> >
> > But these people had the money to pay and the doctors willing to provide
> > the treatment, but the government overruled the parents and forbade them
> > from pursuing it for no other apparent reason than to just assert its
> > dominion over the proles.
>
> Nice oversimplification from someone who pretends to have "legal training".
>
> If you looked at their legal system, you KNOW why they advocated on
> behalf of the child's well being, instead of bowing to the wishes of the
> parents.
>
> If it has been the reverse - the parents REFUSING life saving treatment
> to their sick child, the reasons become pretty clear pretty quickly why
> their system functions as it does.
>
> The government advocated on behalf of the child, not the parents,
> because sometimes the parent don't have the best interests of the child
> at heart. Even when they THINK they do.

This was't a case of overwrought parents blinded by emotion demanding
the taxpayers pay for their folly.

They had money and top-notch doctors willing to provide treatment. The
government said no, because they couldn't have individuals being seen to
triumph over the state in such a public way.

[BTR1701]

In article <olja7k$qai$3...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>

That isn't what you claimed.

moviePig and I were discussing VA administrators. I said ask them. You
said "They did. They've spoken."

Now you backpedal and claim it's the vets who have spoken.

[BTR1701]

In article <olja8v$qai$4...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>

Not conservatives. Just Republicans. And yeah, some leftists, too, who
would have voted for Bernie, but couldn't stomach voting for the Wicked
Witch of Chappequa.

[BTR1701]

In article <olj96h$ogv$1...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>

Man those goalposts sure do move fast. What do you have attached to
them? A 390-horsepower 5.6-liter V8?

[Ubiquitous]

esta...@att.net wrote:
>> FPP
>> > Ed Stasiak

>> > ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia shake-down,
>> > with the government acting as the muscle.
>>
>> Can't disagree with that.
>
>And yet you continue to blindly support it, simply because it was
>"your team" pushing for it.
>
>So fuck the People and common sense, as long as you can score

>some points on Usenet…

Yeah, funny how often that is the case with FPPsky.

--
The old Soviet leaders had it right. Our destruction comes from within:
Moochers, parasites, and Obama.

[FPP]

What does "basic freedom" mean? You could give that excuse to justify
anything.

Yep, and you can' choose not to need medical care. When the need
arises, you almost never have any control over it.

Answer the question. Why shouldn't individuals be responsible for their
own medical costs?

Since anybody could be in dire need at any second in their life, it
stands to reason they should carry insurance to pay whatever costs they
may incur.

I shouldn't be responsible for whatever bills another individual may
rack up. Since they get the care, by law, they should also be made to
act responsibly, by law.

This is a conservative idea. That's just a fact, and a provable fact,
at that. Ask that bastion of lefty's, the Heritage Foundation.
--
One difference between Nixon and Trump: when the Republicans nominated
Nixon, they didn't actually KNOW he was a crook. -S King

[FPP]

Did you read that in the legal briefs counselor? Because that sounds
like some made up bullshit from Alex Jones.

[FPP]

How swollen is your tongue? How do you get a lie that fat out?

So you don't have any idea why they ALL keep similar systems? And they
don't WANT to change to our superior way of life?

What kind of a bullshit excuse are you trying to make? You KNOW why
they keep their systems... because it's better than not having a system.

And it's WAY better than the system WE have.
Your response is just lame.

Why do billionaires keep their money, instead of giving it away to the poor?
Can you answer that one, counselor? Or are you suddenly struck dumb in
the presence of common sense?

Hint: the two answers are startlingly similar. Both LIKE what they
have, and are better off if they keep it, than if they were to throw it
away.

[FPP]

Semantic bullshit. Take it to somebody who cares.

[FPP]

Name some Republicans that aren't conservative.
Name the prominent politicians on the left who support Trump.
Name the prominent leftists who support Trump.

You are SO full of shit.
Why aren't you able to answer simple questions anymore? Did a keg of
nails fall on your head recently?

So answer it. Which side supports Trump again? Think hard, this time.
I KNOW you can figure it out!

[FPP]

You have no answer, so you've resorted to your usual strawman.

"Aww..., Mom! The big kids have moved the goalposts again!"

You said the Dems did nothing when they were in power, and I showed you
exactly what that's a crock of shit. The Republicans abused the 60 vote
threshold like it has never been abused in our nation's history.

No goalposts were moved. You asked the question, and I answered it.
You just don't like the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on, now
- so you whiiiiiinne about it, by pretending the goalposts were moved on
you.

[FPP]

On 7/29/17 2:08 PM, Ubiquitous wrote:
> esta...@att.net wrote:
>>> FPP
>>>> Ed Stasiak
>
>>>> ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia shake-down,
>>>> with the government acting as the muscle.
>>>
>>> Can't disagree with that.
>>
>> And yet you continue to blindly support it, simply because it was
>> "your team" pushing for it.
>>
>> So fuck the People and common sense, as long as you can score

>> some points on Usenet…

>
> Yeah, funny how often that is the case with FPPsky.

Auto-response noted. Do you even know the subject of the thread, or do
you just paste whatever is in your clipboard?

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 7:08 AM, FPP wrote:
> On 7/29/17 7:42 AM, trotsky wrote:
>> On 7/29/2017 5:09 AM, FPP wrote:

>>> On 7/29/17 4:11 AM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>> FPP
>>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia shake-down,
>>>>>> with the government acting as the muscle.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can't disagree with that.
>>>>
>>>> And yet you continue to blindly support it, simply because it was
>>>> “your team” pushing for it.
>>>>
>>>> So fuck the People and common sense, as long as you can score

>>>> some points on Usenet…
>>>
>>> Nope. It helps millions. Some of them are the disabled, on
>>> Medicare. Without the ACA expansion, some of them would be taken out
>>> of their homes, where they're cared for by a loved one.
>>>
>>> In some cases, the cuts would mean that those living at home right
>>> now, would be taken from their families care, and shipped to
>>> different places in the state.
>>>
>>> The same holds true for includes the sick and the old. Repeal would
>>> throw old people out of Nursing Homes, and back into homes not
>>> equipped, or able to care for them.
>>>
>>> That's not just WRONG... that's downright *cruel*. Obamacare ain't
>>> perfect, or even great - but it sure as fuck is absolutely necessary.
>>
>>
>> It seemed to work as Romneycare. If it had been tweaked by Congress
>> instead of the GOP constantly looking like idiots trying to repeal it
>> who knows where we'd be right now.
>
> Aw, we'd be laughing at Republicans for some other boneheaded policy
> they pull out of their asses. Like the old chestnut where tax cuts for
> the super rich pay for themselves.
>
> If it wasn't healthcare they were trying to take away from people, it'd
> be something else.
>
> Medicare Food Stamps. Social Security. Family Medical Leave. More
> Medicare. More Social Security.
>
> You get the idea, right? I know for a fact Republicans do!


Of course we're misspeaking if we don't clarify the only reason they're
doing this is to provide a tax cut to the wealthy.

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 11:46 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <597c9603$0$51808$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>,
> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>

>> On 7/29/2017 4:11 AM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>
>>>> FPP
>
>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>>
>>>>> ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia
>>>>> shake-down, with the government acting as the muscle.
>>>>
>>>> Can't disagree with that.
>>>
>>> And yet you continue to blindly support it, simply because it was
>>> "your team" pushing for it.
>>>
>>> So fuck the People and common sense, as long as you can score

>>> some points on Usenet...
>>
>> *I* support it because, afaics, it's a move toward a rational
>> consideration of socialized medicine. ('Rational' means examined with
>> the same practical principles you'd apply to buying the family car.)
>

> Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
> preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
> in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
> again how great government run services are.

Don't you think (of course you don't) that Medicare is what you need to
be discussing here when you finally pull your head from your ass?

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 1:55 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <597cd415$0$10584$c3e8da3$5d8f...@news.astraweb.com>,
> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:

>
>> On 7/29/2017 12:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <597c9603$0$51808$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>,
>>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/29/2017 4:11 AM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> FPP
>>>
>>>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia
>>>>>>> shake-down, with the government acting as the muscle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can't disagree with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet you continue to blindly support it, simply because it was
>>>>> "your team" pushing for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> So fuck the People and common sense, as long as you can score
>>>>> some points on Usenet...
>>>>
>>>> *I* support it because, afaics, it's a move toward a rational
>>>> consideration of socialized medicine. ('Rational' means examined with
>>>> the same practical principles you'd apply to buying the family car.)
>>>
>>> Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
>>> preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
>>> in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
>>> again how great government run services are.
>>>

>>> **Or the VA-- a handy window into the perfect hell of a health care
>>> system run by the federal government. 'Coverage' doesn't mean much if
>>> you die before they let you see a doctor. Our vets are 'covered'. Isn't
>>> doing them much good. (And before FPP chimes in with "But Republicans!",
>>> yes, I hold them all to blame for the VA shitshow. R and D alike.)
>>

>> Pretending for a moment that a 'rational consideration' could ever begin
>> with "Great...", please tell me what unique property of our country
>> renders us unable to support socialized healthcare of a quality similar
>> to that of nations that have enjoyed one for many years.
>
> Oh, and don't forget the data breaches. Every government agency these
> days has a yearly data breach of some kind. You can almost set your
> calendar by it.
>
> Can't wait till all my medical records are stored on systems like that.
>

Well anonyshitted!

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 3:19 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <597ce1ad$0$43852$c3e8da3$5e5e...@news.astraweb.com>,
> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:

>> My point would be that when *everyone's* asses are on the line, the
>> line will be drawn with much greater care.
>
> And... we're back to the DMV.

No we're not you stupid fuck. We're not going to have govt. facilities
when single payer finally gets instituted. You think the govt. is going
to buy every hospital in America and manage them? You stupid fuck.

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 3:50 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <17aa692e-89f5-46e9...@googlegroups.com>,

> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 12:51:29 PM UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:
>>

>>> Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
>>> preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
>>> in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
>>> again how great government run services are.
>>

>> Actually, my DMV has me in and out in five minutes.
>
> Since they started giving illegals drivers licenses here in Cali, the
> DMV here has descended to an all-new level of hell. There's no more
> waiting for hours in the chairs until they call your name. Now there's a

> line out the door and all the way down the block just to *get* to the

> point where you can wait in the chairs. Every DMV office in L.A. is like
> this. You can make an appointment on-line, but that doesn't get you
> around any of it. I'm not sure what the point of the appointment system
> even is.
>
> A friend had to get his license renewed in person because a new photo
> was required, and he paid his kid to sit in line for him, then call him
> when he got near the front. Kid showed up at 0700, two hours before the
> doors opened, and the line was already hundreds deep. He sat there all
> day until the doors closed at 1700, and never even made it inside.
>
> Just one more way our fearless leaders in California have catered to the
> illegals at the expense of its legitimate citizens
>

>>> **Or the VA-- a handy window into the perfect hell of a health care
>>> system run by the federal government. 'Coverage' doesn't mean much if
>>> you die before they let you see a doctor. Our vets are 'covered'. Isn't
>>> doing them much good. (And before FPP chimes in with "But Republicans!",
>>> yes, I hold them all to blame for the VA shitshow. R and D alike.)
>>

>> Why aren't the Republicans doing anything to fix that?
>
> Why aren't the Democrats?

What a fucking stupid question.

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 4:50 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <olivam$s2e$2...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>

>> On 7/29/17 4:50 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>
>>> In article<17aa692e-89f5-46e9...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, July 29, 2017 at 12:51:29 PM UTC-4, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
>>>>> preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
>>>>> in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
>>>>> again how great government run services are.
>
>>>> Actually, my DMV has me in and out in five minutes.
>
>>> Since they started giving illegals drivers licenses here in Cali, the
>>> DMV here has descended to an all-new level of hell. There's no more
>>> waiting for hours in the chairs until they call your name. Now there's a

>>> line out the door and all the way down the block just to*get* to the

>>> point where you can wait in the chairs. Every DMV office in L.A. is like
>>> this. You can make an appointment on-line, but that doesn't get you
>>> around any of it. I'm not sure what the point of the appointment system
>>> even is.
>>>
>>> A friend had to get his license renewed in person because a new photo
>>> was required, and he paid his kid to sit in line for him, then call him
>>> when he got near the front. Kid showed up at 0700, two hours before the
>>> doors opened, and the line was already hundreds deep. He sat there all
>>> day until the doors closed at 1700, and never even made it inside.
>>>
>>> Just one more way our fearless leaders in California have catered to the
>>> illegals at the expense of its legitimate citizens
>>>
>>>>> **Or the VA-- a handy window into the perfect hell of a health care
>>>>> system run by the federal government. 'Coverage' doesn't mean much if
>>>>> you die before they let you see a doctor. Our vets are 'covered'. Isn't
>>>>> doing them much good. (And before FPP chimes in with "But Republicans!",
>>>>> yes, I hold them all to blame for the VA shitshow. R and D alike.)
>
>>>> Why aren't the Republicans doing anything to fix that?
>
>>> Why aren't the Democrats?
>>

>> They're not in power.
>
> They were and they did nothing when they were.

So you would describe the ACA as "nothing"? You stupid fuck.

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 4:52 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <oliuc8$ol1$3...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>
>> On 7/29/17 4:19 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>
>>> In article <597ce1ad$0$43852$c3e8da3$5e5e...@news.astraweb.com>,
>>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>

>>>> On 7/29/2017 2:54 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>
>>>>> In article <597cd415$0$10584$c3e8da3$5d8f...@news.astraweb.com>,
>>>>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/29/2017 12:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <597c9603$0$51808$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>,
>>>>>>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 7/29/2017 4:11 AM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> FPP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia
>>>>>>>>>>> shake-down, with the government acting as the muscle.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can't disagree with that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And yet you continue to blindly support it, simply because it was
>>>>>>>>> "your team" pushing for it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So fuck the People and common sense, as long as you can score
>>>>>>>>> some points on Usenet...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *I* support it because, afaics, it's a move toward a rational
>>>>>>>> consideration of socialized medicine. ('Rational' means examined with
>>>>>>>> the same practical principles you'd apply to buying the family car.)
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
>>>>>>> preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
>>>>>>> in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
>>>>>>> again how great government run services are.
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> **Or the VA-- a handy window into the perfect hell of a health care
>>>>>>> system run by the federal government. 'Coverage' doesn't mean much if
>>>>>>> you die before they let you see a doctor. Our vets are 'covered'. Isn't
>>>>>>> doing them much good. (And before FPP chimes in with "But Republicans!",
>>>>>>> yes, I hold them all to blame for the VA shitshow. R and D alike.)
>>>>>>

>>>>>> Pretending for a moment that a 'rational consideration' could ever begin
>>>>>> with "Great...", please tell me what unique property of our country
>>>>>> renders us unable to support socialized healthcare of a quality similar
>>>>>> to that of nations that have enjoyed one for many years.
>>>>>

>>>>> Ask the folks at the VA. I'm sure they're well-versed on their 'unique
>>>>> properties'.
>>>>

>>>> Your point seems to be that the current VA is the best system of this
>>>> sort that we're capable of
>>>
>>> No, my point is that it's the sort of system we'll get, regardless of
>>> theoretical capabilities.
>>>

>>>> My point would be that when *everyone's* asses are on the line, the
>>>> line will be drawn with much greater care.
>>>
>>> And... we're back to the DMV.
>>

>> Then why aren't all the other civilized countries with socialized
>> universal healthcare complaining?
>
> Because they're not the US. Maybe their DMVs

The DMVs are a false equivalency, and you know it. If you don't you're
a stupid fuck.

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 4:55 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <oliu80$ol1$2...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>> They did. They've spoken. They don't want private insurance.
>
> The asshat bureaucrats who have destroyed the VA have spoken?

Another false equivalency. The govt. won't be owning every hospital in
America. I really can't decide if you're intentionally trying to be
this stupid or if you really are this fucking stupid so I'm going with
the latter.

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 4:56 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> moviePig

>>
>> *I* support it because, afaics, it's a move toward a rational consideration
>> of socialized medicine.
>

> But it’s not socialized medicine, it’s straight up capitalist corporate medicine,
> the primary motive of which is profit above all.

>
>> (‘Rational' means examined with the same practical principles you'd apply
>> to buying the family car.)
>

> The government isn’t forcing you to buy a car (yet…)
>


Well played, Thanny.

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 4:57 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <oliu60$ol1$1...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>
>> On 7/29/17 12:46 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>> In article <597c9603$0$51808$c3e8da3$f626...@news.astraweb.com>,
>>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 7/29/2017 4:11 AM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> FPP
>>>
>>>>>>> Ed Stasiak
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ObamaCare is the worst of both worlds; a corporate mafia
>>>>>>> shake-down, with the government acting as the muscle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can't disagree with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet you continue to blindly support it, simply because it was
>>>>> "your team" pushing for it.
>>>>>
>>>>> So fuck the People and common sense, as long as you can score
>>>>> some points on Usenet...
>>>>

>>>> *I* support it because, afaics, it's a move toward a rational

>>>> consideration of socialized medicine. ('Rational' means examined with

>>>> the same practical principles you'd apply to buying the family car.)
>>>

>>> Great, let the government take over health care completely. And for a
>>> preview of what going to the doctor will be like, go to the DMV**, wait
>>> in line five hours, only to be told to come back tomorrow, and tell me
>>> again how great government run services are.
>>>
>>> **Or the VA-- a handy window into the perfect hell of a health care
>>> system run by the federal government. 'Coverage' doesn't mean much if
>>> you die before they let you see a doctor. Our vets are 'covered'. Isn't
>>> doing them much good. (And before FPP chimes in with "But Republicans!",
>>> yes, I hold them all to blame for the VA shitshow. R and D alike.)
>

>>> The American Customer Satisfaction Index (ACSI), an independent customer
>>> service survey, ranks the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) customer
>>> satisfaction among Veteran patients among the best in the nation
>
> It's hard for vets who died waiting for care to take a survey.

Bullshit, your guy Trump says they're still voting.

[trotsky]

On 7/29/2017 8:28 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <oljamd$rmi$1...@dont-email.me>, FPP <fred...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/29/17 6:41 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>> FPP
>>>>
>>>> Democrats have wanted to tweak Obamacare since
>>>> the day it was passed.
>>>
>>> The only "tweak" needed is eliminating the individual mandate.
>
>> Why shouldn't people be required to carry health insurance?
>
> Basic freedom.
>
>> You have to carry car insurance if you want to drive.
>
> But you don't have to drive.

So true! And as the GOP's Deathcare experiments have shown us we
Americans don't have to live either. Although "life, liberty, and the
pursuit of happiness" did seem pretty clear cut. Who knew?