Remembering WHY the U.S. invaded Iraq

[RichA]

AP July 2008

The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program — a huge
stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached a Canadian port
Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week
airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake" — the seed material for
higher-grade nuclear enrichment — was a significant step toward
closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy. It also brought relief
to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach
insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions.

[Barb May]

The US didn't invade Iraq over yellowcake. And this particular
yellowcake was not a threat or proof that Bush was right.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/yellowcake.asp

"The yellowcake removed from Iraq in 2008 was material that had long
since been identified, documented, and stored in sealed containers under
the supervision of UN inspectors. It was not a "secret" cache that was
recently "discovered" by the US and the yellowcake had not been
purchased by Iraq in the years immediately preceding the 2003 invasion.
The unranium was the remnants of decades-old nuclear reactor projects.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25546334
"Tuwaitha and an adjacent research facility were well known for decades
as the centerpiece of Saddam's nuclear efforts. Israeli warplanes bombed
a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented
and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and
containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any
yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said."

--
Barb

[W/Q]

Faulty memory, it seems. Also from AP via NBC:

"U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had
been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf
War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991,
the official said."

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25546334

In other words, translation for brain-dead right wingnuts: the yellow
cake that was removed had been there since the 80s all along, not
something fresh and new leading up to, or appearing after, 9/11. You,
as a dead-head right wingnut, wholly and unquestioningly fell for the
Bush shenanigans to make you believe that was the reason why Iraq
needed to be invaded. If yellow cake in Iraq was good enough for
Reagan, Daddy Bush and Clinton to not do anything about it, then it
should've been good enough for li'l Georgie, too. The US would've
saved itself a trillion bucks in war costs, thousands of troops' lives
and tens of thousands of troops returning home damaged, not to mention
the 100,000+ Iraqi lives lost.

[Antonio E. Gonzalez]

More like 1.5 million Iraqi lives lost.

Anyway, 550 tons of yellowcake are no more a nuclear bomb than 700
tons of bauxite are a 747.

The invasion of Iraq in 2003 is easily the US's greatest military
mistake since Vietnam.

--

- Officially, President Obama will be the best US President since FDR
on 2017. Unofficially, he already is.

--

- ReFlex76

- <http://twitter.com/ReFlex76>

[Adam H. Kerman]

Antonio E. Gonzalez <AntE...@aol.com> wrote:

>--

>- Officially, President Obama will be the best US President since FDR
>on 2017. Unofficially, he already is.

>--

> - ReFlex76

> - <http://twitter.com/ReFlex76>

Two .sig delimiters? Brilliant, dude.

Any particular reason?

I'd say both Clinton and Ford were superior by far, and Truman was in a
class by himself. The rest had their merits, and bad points. Johnson
got the first meaningful civil rights legislation on the books since
Reconstruction, but got us deeply involved in Viet Nam, which Kennedy
irrevocably committed us to. Kennedy solved the Cuban Missile Crisis,
but attempted the Bay of Pigs and would have escalated Viet Nam War much
sooner if he'd lived. Carter had one foreign policy disaster after another
after he fired Cyrus Vance, but achieved the first breakthrough in Middle
East peace with the treaty between Egypt and Israel. Eisenhower presided
over a period of economic prosperity that he mostly didn't fuck up, but
wasn't strong enough not to let the Dulles brothers run amok.

Nixon, uh, went to China and signed some fine legislation written by a
Congress that wasn't an extreme embarassment, like the Clean Air Act and
NEPA and started EPA.

[Remysun]

On Feb 1, 11:53 pm, Antonio E. Gonzalez <AntEGM...@aol.com> wrote:

>   The invasion of Iraq in 2003 is easily the US's greatest military
> mistake since Vietnam.

I'd say it was greater. At least Vietnam didn't reverse America's
status in the Cold War. The Russians had their Vietnam in Afghanistan
and everything worked out. The Invasion of Iraq gave life to Al-Qaida,
by allowing Bin Laden an extra eight years to live, providing
justification for their ideology, as well as providing American
targets to the insurgency.

[Remysun]

On Feb 2, 12:48 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> I'd say both Clinton and Ford were superior by far, and Truman was in a
> class by himself. The rest had their merits, and bad points.

Ford? With the fiscal cliff, Clinton is an easy choice for great
president, but do tell about Ford.

[Adam H. Kerman]

He whipped inflation now!

Strong points for being just what the country needed after Nixon's resignation.
Strong domestic policy. If I'd been old enough to vote, I'd have voted for
him versus Carter.

[Barb May]

And instead of decreasing Shia dominated Iran's influence in the region,
the invasion of Sunni dominated Iraq put the Shias in charge, giving
Iran even more influence.

--
Barb

[hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com]

On Feb 2, 12:48 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> Nixon, uh, went to China and signed some fine legislation written by a
> Congress that wasn't an extreme embarassment, like the Clean Air Act and
> NEPA and started EPA.

Also signed the law creating Amtrak.

With the passage of time--and performance of subsequent Republican
administrations--the Nixon years have gotten more respect. See
Ambrose's three volume history on Nixon. Ambrose didn't like Nixon
and didn't want to do the biography, but as he got into it, he
discovered the picture was far more complex than he first thought.

Nixon was a brilliant foreign policy president and a brilliant
politician. He should've known better than the hire the jerks (like
Colson and the Plumbers).

Ironically, Nixon knew TV well enough to take his 'special
fund' (Checkers) case direct to the public and made a speech that was
a huge success. Yet he blew his TV image for the Kennedy debate.

[Remysun]

On Feb 2, 3:00 pm, "Barb May" <barb...@nonofyourbusinessx.tv> wrote:

> And instead of decreasing Shia dominated Iran's influence in the region,
> the invasion of Sunni dominated Iraq put the Shias in charge, giving
> Iran even more influence.

Yup, especially once they figured out we were stretched trying to run
two theaters. And calling North Korea the Axis of Evil, when the key
to Asian diplomacy is to give the other party a chance to save face.

Flubba Dubba-- the only thing that made me like him was when the
reporter threw his shoes. That the guy didn't get shot dead said a lot
for this country.

[Adam H. Kerman]

Remysun <remys...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Feb 1, 11:53 pm, Antonio E. Gonzalez <AntEGM...@aol.com> wrote:

>>The invasion of Iraq in 2003 is easily the US's greatest military
>>mistake since Vietnam.

>I'd say it was greater. At least Vietnam didn't reverse America's
>status in the Cold War. The Russians had their Vietnam in Afghanistan
>and everything worked out.

I hope that's sarcasm. Viet Nam proved to the Russians that we were a
nation of imbeciles, clearly demonstrating that they were better at
foreign policy than we were, till Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski provoked
the Russians into invading Afghanistan, where we armed and created what
became the Taliban.

>The Invasion of Iraq gave life to Al-Qaida, by allowing Bin Laden an
>extra eight years to live, providing justification for their ideology,
>as well as providing American targets to the insurgency.

I don't know about that. As Al-Qaida isn't Shi'ite, I don't think Iraq
had the same implications of holiness as having foreign troops in Saudi
Arabia did.

[Adam H. Kerman]

But we meant to do that!

I haven't heard of any foreign policy disasters under Hillary, at least
not yet, so she may turn out to be the bestest Secretary of State in
recent memory, but we won't know for a few years.

[Adam H. Kerman]

hanc...@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>On Feb 2, 12:48 am, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>>Nixon, uh, went to China and signed some fine legislation written by a
>>Congress that wasn't an extreme embarassment, like the Clean Air Act and
>>NEPA and started EPA.

>Also signed the law creating Amtrak.

Uh, that was hostile to intercity passenger rail. That it worked at all
was due to Volpe's sabotage of Nixon's sabotage by turning out to be a
fantastic Secretary of Transportation.

[Remysun]

On Feb 3, 12:09 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> But we meant to do that!
>
> I haven't heard of any foreign policy disasters under Hillary, at least
> not yet, so she may turn out to be the bestest Secretary of State in
> recent memory, but we won't know for a few years.

The comments in an NPR story said it all. Seven incidents resulting in
loss of life under Rumsfeld-Powell/Rice. Benghazi under Clinton.

[Adam H. Kerman]

I'm not some asshole US Senator second-guessing the State Department.
She gets a pass from me. I seriously question why military-like
interrogations are performed at an embassy or consulate under any
circumstances, thus making them military targets, which none of the
asshole US Senators questioned. Perhaps the next Secretary of State
will reverse this policy.

[Remysun]

On Feb 3, 12:07 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> Remysun <remysun2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 1, 11:53 pm, Antonio E. Gonzalez <AntEGM...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>The invasion of Iraq in 2003 is easily the US's greatest military
> >>mistake since Vietnam.
> >I'd say it was greater. At least Vietnam didn't reverse America's
> >status in the Cold War. The Russians had their Vietnam in Afghanistan
> >and everything worked out.
>
> I hope that's sarcasm. Viet Nam proved to the Russians that we were a
> nation of imbeciles, clearly demonstrating that they were better at
> foreign policy than we were, till Carter and Zbigniew Brzezinski provoked
> the Russians into invading Afghanistan, where we armed and created what
> became the Taliban.

And that was pretty imbecilic of the Russians, but you should take my
comments in context that I was referring to Iraq erasing the sympathy
that 9/11 created. See below.

> >The Invasion of Iraq gave life to Al-Qaida, by allowing Bin Laden an
> >extra eight years to live, providing justification for their ideology,
> >as well as providing American targets to the insurgency.
>
> I don't know about that. As Al-Qaida isn't Shi'ite, I don't think Iraq
> had the same implications of holiness as having foreign troops in Saudi
> Arabia did.

After 9/11, all but the most nutcase of Muslims believed that Al Qaida
had gone too far. We had reasons for going into Afghanistan. We never
had a reason to go into Iraq and create the suffering that we did for
the people we quote-unquote "liberated." It's not about Sunni or
Shi'ite, but that Al-Qaida had painted American Imperialism as an
aggression against Muslims, and the unwarranted actions played right
into their propaganda. That imperalism falls in, as you noted, to the
situation of Americans in Saudi Arabia. Check out some old PBS
Frontline episodes if you need further details.

[trotsky]

On 2/3/13 12:41 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Remysun <remys...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 3, 12:09 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>> I haven't heard of any foreign policy disasters under Hillary, at least
>>> not yet, so she may turn out to be the bestest Secretary of State in
>>> recent memory, but we won't know for a few years.
>
>> The comments in an NPR story said it all. Seven incidents resulting in
>> loss of life under Rumsfeld-Powell/Rice. Benghazi under Clinton.
>
> I'm not some asshole

Come on.

[Remysun]

On Feb 3, 1:41 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

I wasn't complaining about you, but the Tea Party vitriol I've seen on
Facebook, except I try to stay more politically neutral there, since
those folks are actually friends, and I'm an outlier in that as a
minority, I'm a Venn Diagram intersection od several groups who would
otherwise have nothing to do with each other. What you just said makes
good sense.

[Remysun]

On Feb 3, 12:07 pm, "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com> wrote:

> Remysun <remysun2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 1, 11:53 pm, Antonio E. Gonzalez <AntEGM...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>The invasion of Iraq in 2003 is easily the US's greatest military
> >>mistake since Vietnam.
> >I'd say it was greater. At least Vietnam didn't reverse America's
> >status in the Cold War. The Russians had their Vietnam in Afghanistan
> >and everything worked out.
>
> I hope that's sarcasm. Viet Nam proved to the Russians that we were a
> nation of imbeciles, clearly demonstrating that they were better at
> foreign policy than we were,

I also say that because the Tet Offensive was technically an American
Pyrrhic victory. It was successfully rebuffed, but showed that the
American public had no stomach for what was going on. Meanwhile, the
most successful foreign policy that the Communists had was avoiding
the Pearl Harbor-Remember the Maine-type situation which would anger
us into action.

[Tom]

On Feb 1, 11:10 am, "W/Q" <i...@email.com> wrote:
> On 1 Feb, 11:51, RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > AP July 2008
>
> > The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program — a huge
> > stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached a Canadian port
> > Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week
> > airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.
>
> > The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake" — the seed material for
> > higher-grade nuclear enrichment — was a significant step toward
> > closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy. It also brought relief
> > to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach
> > insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions.
>
> Faulty memory, it seems.  Also from AP via NBC:

Nah... Rich is just stupid and like to put it on display.

>
> "U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had
> been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf
> War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991,
> the official said."
>
> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25546334
>
> In other words, translation for brain-dead right wingnuts: the yellow
> cake that was removed had been there since the 80s all along, not
> something fresh and new leading up to, or appearing after, 9/11.  You,
> as a dead-head right wingnut, wholly and unquestioningly fell for the
> Bush shenanigans to make you believe that was the reason why Iraq
> needed to be invaded.  If yellow cake in Iraq was good enough for
> Reagan, Daddy Bush and Clinton to not do anything about it, then it
> should've been good enough for li'l Georgie, too.  The US would've
> saved itself a trillion bucks in war costs, thousands of troops' lives
> and tens of thousands of troops returning home damaged, not to mention
> the 100,000+ Iraqi lives lost.

Fact... a four letter word to turds like Rich.

Tom

[Tom]

After President Ford died, there were many articles and TV analyses of
his presidency.

As I recall, all provided a favorable reexamination of his time in
office and also stated the downfall of the Soviet Union actually began
with President Ford, not Ronald Reagan.

Tom

[Irish Mike]

On Feb 1 2013 1:10 PM, W/Q wrote:

> On 1 Feb, 11:51, RichA <rander3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > AP July 2008
> >
> > The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program � a huge
> > stockpile of concentrated natural uranium � reached a Canadian port
> > Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week
> > airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.
> >
> > The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake" � the seed material for
> > higher-grade nuclear enrichment � was a significant step toward
> > closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy. It also brought relief
> > to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach
> > insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions.
>
> Faulty memory, it seems.

The Democrats have more than "faulty memory" - they have selective
amnesia. The fact is the resolution to go to war with Iraq was approved by
82 Democrats in Congress and 28 Democrats in the Seante - where Democrats
held the majority. The resolution could never have passed with out these
Democrat votes. And, BTW, the resolution was based on more than "yellow
cake".

"The resolution cited many factors to justify the use of military force
against Iraq:[2][3]
Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 ceasefire agreement,
including interference with U.N. weapons inspectors.

Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such
weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and
international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region."

Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population."

Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction
against other nations and its own people".

Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993
assassination attempt on former President George H. W. Bush and firing on
coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War.

Members of al-Qaeda, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks
on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks
that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq.

Iraq's "continu[ing] to aid and harbor other international terrorist
organizations," including anti-United States terrorist organizations.

Iraq paid bounty to families of suicide bombers.

The efforts by the Congress and the President to fight terrorists, and
those who aided or harbored them.

The authorization by the Constitution and the Congress for the President
to fight anti-United States terrorism.

The governments in Turkey, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia feared Saddam and
wanted him removed from power.

Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, the resolution reiterated that it
should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein
regime and promote a democratic replacement."

Of all the left wing hypocrisy on this issue, one of the most blantant was
by Bill Clinton. Clinton stated that he has seen the same intelligence
reports that President Bush received and, based on the content of those
reports, would have taken the same action. Of course Clinton later
developed selective amnesia on this issue.

Irish Mike

Proud to be one of the 59,133,000 plus Americans who voted against Obama.