"Breaking Bad" "Salud":: was Mike trying to kill Jesse? (spoiler)
Hunter
I found this slide show that looks like Mike aiming at Jesse. Was Mike about to
kill Jesse during their escape from Don Eladio's hacienda you decide:
http://www.flickr.com//photos/63652874@N07/sets/72157627578941123/show/
It sure does look like it to me. There was no reason for that movement. Any
potential danger was behind them and Jesse was looking out what was in front of
them. There was no reason for Mike to point the gun in Jesse's general
direction. It sure looks like that Jesse doesn't matter to Gus after all. That
Walt was right. Gus was leading Jesse by the nose.
It is a good plan. Kill Jesse there it would be out of the US and it looks like
he got caught in a middle of a Mob War. And even better Walt would just assume
that Jesse was down in Mexico working for the Cartel as Gus and Mike would no
doubt tell him since it is not likely a dead American who has a previous
criminal record for drug possession will make the news.
Of course this very well might change Gus and mike's minds about him and he
could be useful after all.
--
----->Hunter
"No man in the wrong can stand up against
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."
-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
Keith Keller
>
> I found this slide show that looks like Mike aiming at Jesse. Was Mike about to
> kill Jesse during their escape from Don Eladio's hacienda you decide:
>
> http://www.flickr.com//photos/63652874@N07/sets/72157627578941123/show/
>
> It sure does look like it to me. There was no reason for that movement. Any
> potential danger was behind them and Jesse was looking out what was in front of
> them. There was no reason for Mike to point the gun in Jesse's general
> direction. It sure looks like that Jesse doesn't matter to Gus after all. That
> Walt was right. Gus was leading Jesse by the nose.
behind him, and didn't turn quickly enough; or he was just trying to
cover behind him. Why kill Jesse at that moment? Why not let him die
with Don Eladio and his capos?
I've only had one actual viewing, though; I'd have to watch a second
time to be sure (and due to Real Life may not get that chance this
week).
--keith
--
kkeller...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
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Dano
news:MPG.28e26a06d...@news.optonline.net...
I found this slide show that looks like Mike aiming at Jesse. Was Mike about
to
kill Jesse during their escape from Don Eladio's hacienda you decide:
http://www.flickr.com//photos/63652874@N07/sets/72157627578941123/show/
It sure does look like it to me. There was no reason for that movement. Any
potential danger was behind them and Jesse was looking out what was in front
of
them. There was no reason for Mike to point the gun in Jesse's general
direction. It sure looks like that Jesse doesn't matter to Gus after all.
That
Walt was right. Gus was leading Jesse by the nose.
It is a good plan. Kill Jesse there it would be out of the US and it looks
like
he got caught in a middle of a Mob War. And even better Walt would just
assume
that Jesse was down in Mexico working for the Cartel as Gus and Mike would
no
doubt tell him since it is not likely a dead American who has a previous
criminal record for drug possession will make the news.
Of course this very well might change Gus and mike's minds about him and he
could be useful after all.
=======================================
Nah. I don't buy it. They were both looking all around, expecting an
attack by cartel shooters. Mike still needed Jesse anyway...if for no other
reason to help carry Gus. He had one healthy ally in a damn war zone. The
three were in it together for survival at that point.
tomcervo
are leaving." And what kind of plan involves killing off a committed
member of your crew in the middle of a hot zone? It's a long way home
yet--plenty of time to dispose of him once you get down the road.
Hunter
use...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us says...
> On 2011-09-20, Hunter <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> > I found this slide show that looks like Mike aiming at Jesse. Was Mike about to
> > kill Jesse during their escape from Don Eladio's hacienda you decide:
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com//photos/63652874@N07/sets/72157627578941123/show/
> >
> > It sure does look like it to me. There was no reason for that movement. Any
> > potential danger was behind them and Jesse was looking out what was in front of
> > them. There was no reason for Mike to point the gun in Jesse's general
> > direction. It sure looks like that Jesse doesn't matter to Gus after all. That
> > Walt was right. Gus was leading Jesse by the nose.
>
> I disagree--either Mike was turning in response to a perceived threat
> behind him, and didn't turn quickly enough; or he was just trying to
> cover behind him.
Jesse was covering what was in front of him. If Mike was looking in the
opposite direction at the hacienda as he should've been then he would've saw
the other thug coming and would not have gotten shot (incidentally on third
viewing of the whole poisoning incident I was wrong in thinking that the guy
Jesse killed was the same guy Mike garroted by the pool. They weren't. The guy
Mike strangled was wearing black pants; the guy Jesse shot was wearing blue
pants. They look a lot a like though).
> Why kill Jesse at that moment? Why not let him die
> with Don Eladio and his capos?
Mike needed an extra gun to defend them and also to carry Gus who Mike could
barely carry his near dead weight. As it was it was two against whatever many
as far as they knew. When they got to the car and piled Gus in all Mike had to
do was drive away. Jesse wasn't needed anymore.
> I've only had one actual viewing, though; I'd have to watch a second
> time to be sure (and due to Real Life may not get that chance this
> week).
>
> --keith
I actually hope you are right and it is just a trick of the camera angle or
something. It is just that it makes perfect sense to me.
Kill Jesse who killed Gale to tie up a loose end. If the authorities find out
somehow that Jesse killed Gale and Jesse's body was found in the middle of a
mob hit the Authorities can surmise that Jesse killed Gale on orders of the
Cartel. Jesse just got caught in the middle of a mob war. There will be no more
risk of a tie of Jesse to Gus-unless one of the illegal immigrants who work in
the legitimate laundry mat talks and I doubt that very much.
Meanwhile, unless a nobody like Jesse Pinkman somehow makes the news-I'm sure a
mass mob poisoning will make the news given how unique that is but not
necessarily a low level soldier like Pinkman-Gus can say that Jesse is making
Meth for the Cartel and not to worry.
Again I do hope you are righ, and even if my fears are correct and Mike did try
to kill Jesse on Gus's orders, Jesse's heroism under fire in defending them
both will cause them to reconsider I hope. Maybe we will hear a private
conversation between Gus and Mike while Jesse is out of earshot that will
settle the matter next week. :-)
Hunter
paradi...@gmail.com says...
>
> On Sep 20, 10:35ï¿œam, "Dano" <janeandd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "Hunter" ï¿œwrote in message
> >
> > news:MPG.28e26a06d...@news.optonline.net...
> >
> > I found this slide show that looks like Mike aiming at Jesse. Was Mike about
> > to
> > kill Jesse during their escape from Don Eladio's hacienda you decide:
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com//photos/63652874@N07/sets/72157627578941123/show/
> >
> > It sure does look like it to me. There was no reason for that movement. Any
> > potential danger was behind them and Jesse was looking out what was in front
> > of
> > them. There was no reason for Mike to point the gun in Jesse's general
> > direction. It sure looks like that Jesse doesn't matter to Gus after all.
> > That
> > Walt was right. Gus was leading Jesse by the nose.
> >
> > It is a good plan. Kill Jesse there it would be out of the US and it looks
> > like
> > he got caught in a middle of a Mob War. And even better Walt would just
> > assume
> > that Jesse was down in Mexico working for the Cartel as Gus and Mike would
> > no
> > doubt tell him since it is not likely a dead American who has a previous
> > criminal record for drug possession will make the news.
> >
> > Of course this very well might change Gus and mike's minds about him and he
> > could be useful after all.
> >
> > =======================================
> >
> > attack by cartel shooters. ï¿œMike still needed Jesse anyway...if for no other
> > reason to help carry Gus. ï¿œHe had one healthy ally in a damn war zone. ï¿œThe
> > three were in it together for survival at that point.
>
> The quote may not be exact, but . . . "We're all leaving or none of us
> are leaving." And what kind of plan involves killing off a committed
> member of your crew in the middle of a hot zone? It's a long way home
> yet--plenty of time to dispose of him once you get down the road.
To make him look like part of the battle at the hacienda. If you dump him in
the desert then you are telling the authorities he was part of the hit team and
not a soldier with the Don's organization. It would draw attention to Jesse
needlessly. Also Mike needed him to be an extra gun and to carry Gus to the car
(Gus would've known that the poison he would have to drink wouldn't respond
totally to the counter agent he took earlier, nor him vomiting up most of it in
his stomach). When that was accomplished Jesse fulfilled his usefulness and
could be disposed of.
Dano
news:MPG.28e2e0f91...@news.optonline.net...
> > attack by cartel shooters. Mike still needed Jesse anyway...if for no
> > other
> > reason to help carry Gus. He had one healthy ally in a damn war zone.
> > The
>
> The quote may not be exact, but . . . "We're all leaving or none of us
> are leaving." And what kind of plan involves killing off a committed
> member of your crew in the middle of a hot zone? It's a long way home
> yet--plenty of time to dispose of him once you get down the road.
----
To make him look like part of the battle at the hacienda. If you dump him in
the desert then you are telling the authorities he was part of the hit team
and
not a soldier with the Don's organization. It would draw attention to Jesse
needlessly. Also Mike needed him to be an extra gun and to carry Gus to the
car
(Gus would've known that the poison he would have to drink wouldn't respond
totally to the counter agent he took earlier, nor him vomiting up most of it
in
his stomach). When that was accomplished Jesse fulfilled his usefulness and
could be disposed of.
Have any of your theories EVER turned out to be true?
Malcom "Mal" Reynolds
> Again I do hope you are righ, and even if my fears are correct and Mike did
> try to kill Jesse on Gus's orders, Jesse's heroism under fire in defending
> them both will cause them to reconsider I hope. Maybe we will hear a private
> conversation between Gus and Mike while Jesse is out of earshot that will
> settle the matter next week. :-)
his primary instinctual response was to protect himself
Keith Keller
Hunter
bug...@invalid.invalid says...
True but he still responded correctly even it was just to save his own life. A
season ago-which probably translates into three months ago in the show's
timeline-I don't th9ink he could've done even that. He most likely would've
ducked and covered.
That said I think he was trying to genuinely save Mike's and Gus's life,
especially since Mike saved Jesse's life just a few days ago prior.
jazzyja...@gmail.com
Additionally, has there been any indication that Mike and Gus are thinking about Walt as anything more than a hired hand now? As long as Walt doesn't interfere with Mike's guys or Gus' business, he should be relatively safe from them.
Keith Keller
> Why bother killing Walt now? Jesse's allegiances have changed and Walt can't get anywhere near Gus. So any "threat" from Walt is effectively isolated.
The threat is isolated, but Walt is at this point completely
unpredictable. He gets Gus' illegals to help with his lab cleanup, he
calls the cops on Mike's henchman; what if he decides to cause more
trouble and tell Hank everything? We know Walt won't do that, but Gus
and Mike do not. (And, really, I'm not sure we know Walt won't go to
Hank; his character is at a tipping point right now, especially with his
amateur-criminal wife making really poor decisions about their criminal
enterprise.)
> Additionally, has there been any indication that Mike and Gus are thinking about Walt as anything more than a hired hand now? As long as Walt doesn't interfere with Mike's guys or Gus' business, he should be relatively safe from them.
I think that Gus, at least, can see Jesse as an acceptable replacement
for Walt till he can find another trained chemist, and so Walt is truly
disposable. The irony is that Walt may never ever see that Jesse has
actually turned into a good student, and so won't realize he's
expendable till Jesse turns up at his door the way he sent Jesse to
Gale's. (I actually don't think it's likely that they'd ask Jesse to do
the job, but it'd be a great scene!)
Dano
news:atlas-bugged-AA7E...@aquila.v.weretis.net...
Best way for him to do that was to protect them at that point.
PaulMofATL
That would have been funny the three of them piling into one of those
for their escape. At least they could have hauled ass out of their at
200 MPH. I suspect Gus and Mike might have been a tad uncomfortable!
Hunter
use...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us says...
>
> On 2011-09-21, jazzyja...@gmail.com <jazzyja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why bother killing Walt now? Jesse's allegiances have changed and Walt can't get anywhere near Gus. So any "threat" from Walt is effectively isolated.
>
> The threat is isolated, but Walt is at this point completely
> unpredictable. He gets Gus' illegals to help with his lab cleanup, he
> calls the cops on Mike's henchman; what if he decides to cause more
> trouble and tell Hank everything? We know Walt won't do that, but Gus
> and Mike do not.
Walt is only unpredictable when it comes to Jesse and if Gus thinks he may call
the police that would rush his potential death-and maybe Gus would get Jesse to
do it.
> (And, really, I'm not sure we know Walt won't go to
> Hank; his character is at a tipping point right now, especially with his
> amateur-criminal wife making really poor decisions about their criminal
> enterprise.)
What do you mean poor decisions? She has made great decisions. It is Walt that
has been doing reckless things like buying Walt Jr. the Dodge Challenger, which
he not only bought but then instead of returning it, torched it. Before that he
brought a couple of bottles of wine at $300 per bottle. He has been lose with
the money. So far the only questionable thing Skylar has done is tell Beneke
that she is his sugar momma. She may have had no choice to do it since he was
determined to spend away his "inheritance". Yes he also wanted to do noble
things like restart his business to get his people employed again but he must
pay his back taxes and penalties now. She had to make him see reason someway.
Other than that Skylar has been Walt's savior. Otherwise he would've gotten the
"Al Capone" treatment. And he still might because I don't trust Beneke at ALL.
He will either dime out Skylar if he gets caught or blackmail her. Walt or Mike
may have to kill him.
>
> > Additionally, has there been any indication that Mike and Gus are thinking about Walt as anything more than a hired hand now? As long as Walt doesn't interfere with Mike's guys or Gus' business, he should be relatively safe from them.
>
> I think that Gus, at least, can see Jesse as an acceptable replacement
> for Walt till he can find another trained chemist, and so Walt is truly
> disposable. The irony is that Walt may never ever see that Jesse has
> actually turned into a good student, and so won't realize he's
> expendable till Jesse turns up at his door the way he sent Jesse to
> Gale's. (I actually don't think it's likely that they'd ask Jesse to do
> the job, but it'd be a great scene!)
>
> --keith
----
Yes, I believe Jesse will be chosen to run the lab and maybe even kill Walt but
I don't see Jesse actually trying to shoot Walt despite the fight between them.
The bond between them is too strong. Still the attempt would make a great scene
by attempt I mean Jesse leveling a gun on Walt, not pulling the trigger even to
miss. It would be a symmetry to. Walt sent Jesse to kill Gale, now Gus may send
Jesse to kill Walt.
However, I wouldn't say that Jesse is a student. He just remember things by
rote just like Victor did.
Keith Keller
> ----
> What do you mean poor decisions? She has made great decisions.
I am thinking in particular of her plan for ''Aunt Birgit'', then for
admitting to Ted that the money was from her. She really needs to
listen to Saul (for once), because involving Ted further is only asking
for trouble.
> It is Walt that
> has been doing reckless things
Well, I never said Walt wasn't being reckless, only that Skyler is
making amateur-criminal mistakes.
> So far the only questionable thing Skylar has done is tell Beneke
> that she is his sugar momma. She may have had no choice to do it since he was
> determined to spend away his "inheritance".
If she really wanted to make sure Ted had to pay his taxes, she should
have had Saul figure out a way to get the''inheritance'' reported to
them in such a way that wouldn't raise suspicion. I doubt that's really
possible, so she should have taken Saul's initial advice.
Alan Smithee
> The irony is that Walt may never ever see that Jesse has
> actually turned into a good student, and so won't realize he's
> expendable till Jesse turns up at his door the way he sent Jesse to
> Gale's. (I actually don't think it's likely that they'd ask Jesse to do
> the job, but it'd be a great scene!)
Don't suggest scenes like that. If they do a cliffhanger ep like that,
I'm gonna die from the suspense.
Alan Smithee
> If she really wanted to make sure Ted had to pay his taxes, she should
> have had Saul figure out a way to get the''inheritance'' reported to
> them in such a way that wouldn't raise suspicion. I doubt that's really
> possible, so she should have taken Saul's initial advice.
This guy will be major trouble in the future.
Dano
====================================
He may be dead in the near future.
Keith Keller
> Keith Keller wrote:
>> If she really wanted to make sure Ted had to pay his taxes, she should
>> have had Saul figure out a way to get the''inheritance'' reported to
>> them in such a way that wouldn't raise suspicion. I doubt that's really
>> possible, so she should have taken Saul's initial advice.
>
> Or, she could've paid the tax debt in his name, Saul can probably do that.
money. Who knows, with Saul it might just be doable. :)
Here's Tim Goodman's review of the episode:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bastard-machine/breaking-bad-spoiled-bastard-ep-238417
An interesting quote: "We can have all the Mexican gunfights we, as
viewers and fans, might want at this point." But, to be honest, I
*don't* want any Mexican gunfights. I am more interested in the
characters than the action, which is why I felt the scenes with Walter
Jr. at least as interesting as the scenes in Mexico.
Hunter
use...@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us says...
>
> On 2011-09-23, Hunter <buffh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > ----
> > What do you mean poor decisions? She has made great decisions.
>
> I am thinking in particular of her plan for ''Aunt Birgit'', then for
> admitting to Ted that the money was from her. She really needs to
> listen to Saul (for once), because involving Ted further is only asking
> for trouble.
Actually it was a great plan, have a distant relative in Europe die that would
be difficult to trace back, but Beneke is greedy. But I concede that Skylar
should've known he would react like that. And yes I agree she shouldn't told
him that the money was from her. I guess she felt that was her last card to
play to make him see sense.
> > It is Walt that
> > has been doing reckless things
>
> Well, I never said Walt wasn't being reckless, only that Skyler is
> making amateur-criminal mistakes.
Well she is an armature criminal, but I think her only real misstep was telling
Beneke, otherwise I think she is doing very well. In any event I think things
will be rectified by a certain poisonous cigarette courtesy of Walter White Sr.
:-) Or maybe he will make up a new batch of racin if he lost the cigarette some
how (IMHO of course to those who are over sensitive to speculations like this
LOL!).
>
> > So far the only questionable thing Skylar has done is tell Beneke
> > that she is his sugar momma. She may have had no choice to do it since he was
> > determined to spend away his "inheritance".
>
> If she really wanted to make sure Ted had to pay his taxes, she should
> have had Saul figure out a way to get the''inheritance'' reported to
> them in such a way that wouldn't raise suspicion. I doubt that's really
> possible, so she should have taken Saul's initial advice.
>
> --keith
Whatever that was. Anyway I think it will be a moot point soon. :-)
Hunter
Beneke would have to explain where he got the money. If he didn't know and they
believe him the IRS would want to know where it came from to ensure it wasn't a
ill gotten gain. Al Capone could've paid off his tax bill but he had to show
were he got it from and that is what they nailed him with.
Hunter
Yes like Jesse turning into a killer as Gus groomed him to be one.
Gus not wanting to kill Hector, only to take away everything he loved including
his nephew, who Jesse killed, but not kill Hector himself.
That Gus wasn't electronically surveillance Walt's or Jesse's house or knew
somehow that Walt and Jesse were plotting to poison him.
That the season long plot arc was building up to the point that Walt will kill
Gus.
On "The Mentalist" my suspicion that the guy Jane shot in the Mall in the
second season finale wasn't Red John.
On "Justified" that Rayland Given's step mother/aunt Helen Givens was killed in
one of four scenario with the given evidence at the time.
On "The Event" that the Aliens was going to launch a biological warfare attack
on Earth to exterminate the human race.
In "Smallville" that the writers and producers were totally serious when they
said that Clark Kent won't fly and become superman until the last few minutes
of the last episode of "Smallville".
I am not right all the time to say the least, no one is, but I try-and I don't
keep others from trying to figure out where the show is going because that is
fun to do so. Others if they wish can opt out.
Another possibility in "Breaking Bad":
If Walt doesn't get out of the meth business-as he has now the perfect chance
to get out *TOTALLY* clean which he had at least one time before, but something
tells me he is not going to learn his lesson-he will start a meth lab in the
Car Wash.
I think he is that stupid not to get out now.
I will say this: Spoiler forth the forth season finale of "Breaking Bad"
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-----
I was right that Gus had nothing to do with Brock's illness, however, I was at
best half right half wrong that Walt wouldn't use a child to get what he wants.
I don't think he tried to kill Brock but yes he made him seriously ill. Now I
have to go back and figure out how he got those berries to Brock. The only
opportunity I can remember was when Walt showed up at Jesse's doorstep-but
wasn't let in by Jesse. After that he was kidnapped to the desert a few minutes
later. No chance, it seems, for him to plant the berries. We will have to all
go back and examine the last few episodes. :-)
