Seattle: Guy steals car, is surrounded by cops, he just drives away. No pursuit policy

[RichA]

The lunatics ARE running the liberal asylum.

https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1478859437305589761

[anim8rfsk]

RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The lunatics ARE running the liberal asylum.
>
> https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1478859437305589761
>
>

I remember as far back as high school they were hippie dippy people who
insisted that the police shouldn’t ever chase anybody for any reason. I
never did understand why.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

[BTR1701]

RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The lunatics ARE running the liberal asylum.
>
> https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1478859437305589761

Well done, progs!

[BTR1701]

anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:

> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> The lunatics ARE running the liberal asylum.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1478859437305589761
>>
> I remember as far back as high school they were hippie dippy people who
> insisted that the police shouldn’t ever chase anybody for any reason. I
> never did understand why.

Chicago won't even let cops chase criminals on *foot* any more.

The world has become a theater of the absurd.

[RichA]

If cops can't do their job now, it's up to the private citizen.
I honestly can't see any problem defunding them if they aren't allowed to do their jobs thanks to the politicians.
Spend $1B a year on cops in a big city, so they can hand out parking tickets and and tickets minor road violations? No...
Or at least do what Ontario did; get rid of 1/2 of the city politicians as dead-wood.

[shawn]

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 19:57:15 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net>
wrote:

>RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The lunatics ARE running the liberal asylum.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1478859437305589761
>>
>>
>
>I remember as far back as high school they were hippie dippy people who
>insisted that the police shouldn’t ever chase anybody for any reason. I
>never did understand why.

I get the reason for avoiding high speed pursuit. Especially if they
know the individual's name and vehicle since they can easily call for
backup to block in the suspect's car in most cases.

[anim8rfsk]

And if they don’t? They should just let a guy get away driving down the
sidewalk? This is like the Dukes of Hazzard where the rules said that if
you could get out of sight of the cops you got away with whatever you were
doing even if they knew who you were.

[shawn]

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 21:00:01 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net>
wrote:

No, but you still want to take advantage of the technology we have
today to call in backup to keep track of criminals instead of engaging
in high speed pursuit. I mean if it's "24"/Jack Bauer level event then
high speed pursuit is probably justified but not for most crimes.

[Adam H. Kerman]

They never did anything with that.

[The Horny Goat]

On Thu, 06 Jan 2022 20:58:10 -0600, BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Stupid question but if police believe they've stopped a stolen car and
have two police cars (as they did in that twitter) why would they not
park 6" in front and 6" in back?

That ought to prevent anything like that video...no pursuit needed!
Easy-peasy!

[trotsky]

Lie #8.

[trotsky]

Lie #9.

[trotsky]

On 1/6/2022 9:26 PM, RichA wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 January 2022 at 22:01:17 UTC-5, BTR1701 wrote:
>> anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> The lunatics ARE running the liberal asylum.
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1478859437305589761
>>>>
>>> I remember as far back as high school they were hippie dippy people who
>>> insisted that the police shouldn’t ever chase anybody for any reason. I
>>> never did understand why.
>> Chicago won't even let cops chase criminals on *foot* any more.
>>
>> The world has become a theater of the absurd.
>
> If cops can't do their job now,

You misspelled "jobs."

[Micky DuPree]

The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> writes:

> Stupid question but if police believe they've stopped a stolen car and
> have two police cars (as they did in that twitter) why would they not
> park 6" in front and 6" in back?
>
> That ought to prevent anything like that video...no pursuit needed!
> Easy-peasy!

Yeah, I look at it and see a police tactical failure, not a public policy
failure.

That said, there are a lot of problems with collateral damage in
high-speed pursuits (and with police-involved shootings in public
places). Canadian police procedure seems to be much more sane on the
whole.

-Micky

[Micky DuPree]

Lord knows, you can buy a whole heap of brand-new drones these days for
the price of just one used helicopter.

-Micky

[The Horny Goat]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 06:28:31 +0000 (UTC),
MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:

>That said, there are a lot of problems with collateral damage in
>high-speed pursuits (and with police-involved shootings in public
>places). Canadian police procedure seems to be much more sane on the
>whole.

Canadian police manage to avoid the worst excesses of US poliicing but
there are still the occasional atrocities. Things like the death of
Robert Dziekanski who in Oct 2007 was fatally tasered 6 times in 30
seconds.

At the end of the day the 4 RCMP constables attending were charged and
convicted not with murder but for perjury. Had a witness not captured
it all on his phone the officers would likely have walked.

He had arrived on a flight from Poland, missed his pickup and was
wandering around the international arrivals area for 10-12 hours
withot food or water before his final encounter. I asked a retired
Vancouver police inspector how the case would have been handled
pre-taser and he said (bearing in mind the deceased was 6'6" and none
of the attending officers were over 5'10") "they probably would have
taken him down with batons and it's highly likely they might have
broken bones or teeth - but for sure he'd be alive. He said he was
especially disgusted at them falsifying their police report since
"behind the blue line" that's almost as bad as murder. And that their
judge was insanely easy on them.

Unlike Floyd, Dziezkanski had no criminal record at all - his "crime"
was being a very big guy and disoriented.

I asked the retired inspector why the officers - who knew the didn't
speak English - didn't just yell "PASSPORT" at him until he figured
out what was being required of him and told him my wife's Polish born
uncle had confirmed to me that while the Poles don't pronounce
passport the way we do a Pole who didn't speak English would quickly
figure it out and once the officers saw his passport (which of course
said Poland in about 6 different languages) they could get on the
pholne and even at 2 am get a Polish-speaking person on the phone to
him to tell him what the police wanted of him (the Vancouver airport
has interpreters on call speaking 70+ languages and any officer who
regularly serves at the airport probably has the direct line on his
speed dial - and that this definitely would have been the case in
2007)

So probably not nearly as graphic as the Floyd video but graphic
enough to get the officers convicted if not of the charge they should
have faced.

Still the fact that I readily remember a 15 year old case in my home
town should tell you it doesn't happen nearly as often as in the US.

(The case was particularly personal for me as he was killed in the
Vancouver International Customs Secondary Inspection area which is a
room I know well as I had made 10+ trips overseas purchasing for my
business and had dealt with the Customs inspectors in that room
multiple times including in the midnight - 2 am time interval)

[BTR1701]

But when the cops do that and start using them, the ACLU and all the other
leftist grievance groups throw a fit.

[Rhino]

A few years ago, an incel named Alek Minassian drove down a sidewalk in
Toronto and killed 11 people and injured 15, some critically. A single
traffic cop stopped the guy and, despite him apparently desiring
suicide-by-cop, took him in without firing a shot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_van_attack

The last I heard, the courts are still trying to decide if the judge can
sentence him to consecutive life sentences or if they will all be
concurrent.

Last year, a guy with a pickup truck ran over a family of Muslims
killing four of the five in London.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London,_Ontario_truck_attack

I guess the Seattle police aren't worried about anything like that
happening in their town....

--
Rhino

[Rhino]

And even if a Polish interpreter hadn't been available, a man of his age
would certainly have spoken Russian as Russian was mandatory at Polish
schools until Poland broke free in 1989. (I believe Russian stopped
being mandatory shortly after 1989 but couldn't give you an exact date.)
Dziezkanski was old enough to have had at least some of his education in
that time.

> So probably not nearly as graphic as the Floyd video but graphic
> enough to get the officers convicted if not of the charge they should
> have faced.
>
> Still the fact that I readily remember a 15 year old case in my home
> town should tell you it doesn't happen nearly as often as in the US.
>
> (The case was particularly personal for me as he was killed in the
> Vancouver International Customs Secondary Inspection area which is a
> room I know well as I had made 10+ trips overseas purchasing for my
> business and had dealt with the Customs inspectors in that room
> multiple times including in the midnight - 2 am time interval)

--
Rhino

[Rhino]

On 2022-01-06 9:57 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The lunatics ARE running the liberal asylum.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1478859437305589761
>>
>>
>
> I remember as far back as high school they were hippie dippy people who
> insisted that the police shouldn’t ever chase anybody for any reason. I
> never did understand why.
>

We stopped most police chases in Ontario after some bad accidents
involving vehicles who were fleeing police. At least one of these turned
out to be teenaged joyriders and thus the deaths in these accidents were
deemed unnecessary tragedies.

I don't think chases were banned in *every* case though; I remember an
unusually violent robbery of a jewelry store (or maybe a bank) which led
to a successful police chase after the robbers and I'm pretty sure that
was *after* police policy changed to minimize chases. I think the
thieves actually fired at the police on the road which may have had
something to do with the chase continuing! I don't remember enough
details to find news accounts of the crime so I'm a little fuzzy on
exactly what happened.

Two or three years ago, I read about a new technology that the OPP is
trying to avoid police chases. They fire a sort of soft dart containing
a tracker/transponder that sticks to the car they're chasing, then drop
back and contact relevant agencies to make an arrest, typically when the
vehicle has stopped. They can formulate an arrest plan and then swoop
down on the perps without so much danger to road traffic. I'm not sure
how well this tech is working. If I were the perps and could detect the
dart hitting the car, I'd pull over as soon as the police were out of
sight and pull it off the car and, if possible, attach it to another
vehicle that was heading in some direction different from their own and
hope the people monitoring didn't figure out that the dart wasn't on the
original vehicle any more.

--
Rhino

[Adam H. Kerman]

Rhino <no_offlin...@example.com> wrote:

>We stopped most police chases in Ontario after some bad accidents
>involving vehicles who were fleeing police. At least one of these turned
>out to be teenaged joyriders and thus the deaths in these accidents were
>deemed unnecessary tragedies.

An unnecessary tragedy is collateral damage -- death, serious trauma --
to an uninvolved third party. Who cares if the perpetrators live.

>. . .

[Rhino]

There are also places you can't fly a drone, like near airports, for
safety reasons. Smart criminals would then head for those places.

--
Rhino

[Rhino]

I can't cite the details of the specific incidents that caused the
policy change; they were probably at least a couple of decades back and
might well have been pre-Internet.

I also don't know if it was some "bleeding heart" in the police
bureaucracy or government that banned the chases or the result of a
lawsuit, even a threatened one.

I just saw the policy change mentioned in passing in a news article at
the time without a whole lot of background.

Hmm. I just did some further research, this time on "police chases
Ontario Canada" and found several relatively recent ones. It's possible
that the policy change I read about back in the day was not a blanket
prohibition on chases but only a prohibition on chasing speeders or
stolen cars....

Here's one chase from 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLkHpbYTzak

This one shows a substantial number of officers trying to catch a
pedestrian who stole a bicycle. He won't stop when they tell him to so
they try to knock him over with a car, tase him a bunch of time and use
pepper spray; the video cuts off before he's in cuffs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smzQh2GS8q8

There was apparently a police chase in this case as well, although we
don't actually see it. Under the circumstances, I'm assuming it was a
car chase:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/police-truck-chase-sudbury-1.6162557

--
Rhino

[BTR1701]

In article <ss9akh$n57$3...@dont-email.me>,

That's what Dennis Hopper did in SPEED!

[Rhino]

Did he? I had forgotten that....

--
Rhino

[Ed Stasiak]

> Rhino

>
> Two or three years ago, I read about a new technology that the OPP is
> trying to avoid police chases. They fire a sort of soft dart containing
> a tracker/transponder that sticks to the car they're chasing, then drop
> back and contact relevant agencies to make an arrest, typically when the
> vehicle has stopped.

I remember seeing something on tv years back about an invention
to stop fleeing cars that consisted of a model rocket motor on a small
skateboard type of thing carrying a large capacitor with two folded
antennas.

It was mounted in a box under the front bumper of the cop car and
when fired off, would scoot along the road and under the fleeing car,
where the compactor would discharge thru the frame and short out
the car's electrical system, causing it to come to a rolling stop.

Dunno why it never made it into production, as it seems like a cheep
and easy way to stop fleeing criminals?

[moviePig]

Pacemakers?

[shawn]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:42:48 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
wrote:

I would expect it to have a large issue with reliability. It's great
if the road is perfectly smooth but we know that isn't the case in
many cities. So the skateboard would end up flying off course.

[Rhino]

Excellent question. I wish I knew the answer to that. I'm also curious
whether the sticky dart/tracker worked out. I may reach out to a friend
whose retired OPP about the dart/tracker; he was already retired when
they first started using it but he may still know what happened.

--
Rhino

[Rhino]

On 2022-01-19 8:28 PM, shawn wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 18:42:48 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/19/2022 6:30 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>>>> Rhino
>>>>
>>>> Two or three years ago, I read about a new technology that the OPP is
>>>> trying to avoid police chases. They fire a sort of soft dart containing
>>>> a tracker/transponder that sticks to the car they're chasing, then drop
>>>> back and contact relevant agencies to make an arrest, typically when the
>>>> vehicle has stopped.
>>>
>>> I remember seeing something on tv years back about an invention
>>> to stop fleeing cars that consisted of a model rocket motor on a small
>>> skateboard type of thing carrying a large capacitor with two folded
>>> antennas.
>>>
>>> It was mounted in a box under the front bumper of the cop car and
>>> when fired off, would scoot along the road and under the fleeing car,
>>> where the compactor would discharge thru the frame and short out

>>> the car's electrical system, causing it to come to a rolling stop.trac

>>>
>>> Dunno why it never made it into production, as it seems like a cheep
>>> and easy way to stop fleeing criminals?
>>
>> Pacemakers?
>
> I would expect it to have a large issue with reliability. It's great
> if the road is perfectly smooth but we know that isn't the case in
> many cities. So the skateboard would end up flying off course.

The sticky dart/tracker I mentioned doesn't have *that* problem but I
expect there are others. Like what if it is fired and hits someone on a
passing motorcycle causing them to crash.

--
Rhino

[The Horny Goat]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 09:40:00 -0500, Rhino
<no_offlin...@example.com> wrote:

>And even if a Polish interpreter hadn't been available, a man of his age
>would certainly have spoken Russian as Russian was mandatory at Polish
>schools until Poland broke free in 1989. (I believe Russian stopped
>being mandatory shortly after 1989 but couldn't give you an exact date.)
>Dziezkanski was old enough to have had at least some of his education in
>that time.

I saw a newspaper report around that time saying a Polish language
interpreter WAS on call that night had he or she been called. From
what I've read about YVR (the Vancouver airport authority) they have
interpreters for 70-80 languages on call via telephone 24x7 - they
work in close cooperation with Canadian immigration.

[The Horny Goat]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 10:47:41 -0500, Rhino
<no_offlin...@example.com> wrote:

>On 2022-01-19 10:21 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>> Rhino <no_offlin...@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We stopped most police chases in Ontario after some bad accidents
>>> involving vehicles who were fleeing police. At least one of these turned
>>> out to be teenaged joyriders and thus the deaths in these accidents were
>>> deemed unnecessary tragedies.
>>
>> An unnecessary tragedy is collateral damage -- death, serious trauma --
>> to an uninvolved third party. Who cares if the perpetrators live.
>>
>
>I can't cite the details of the specific incidents that caused the
>policy change; they were probably at least a couple of decades back and
>might well have been pre-Internet.
>
>I also don't know if it was some "bleeding heart" in the police
>bureaucracy or government that banned the chases or the result of a
>lawsuit, even a threatened one.
>
>I just saw the policy change mentioned in passing in a news article at
>the time without a whole lot of background.
>

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLkHpbYTzak
>
>This one shows a substantial number of officers trying to catch a
>pedestrian who stole a bicycle. He won't stop when they tell him to so
>they try to knock him over with a car, tase him a bunch of time and use
>pepper spray; the video cuts off before he's in cuffs:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smzQh2GS8q8

Uh they tried to knock him down with a car or they set up a roadblock?

And multiple taserings? How far apart? (I ask because in the
Dziezkanski case above the victim was tased 5 times in 30 seconds
which caused cardiac arrest - and the victim was NOT aged)

That's heavily over the top with respect to the OPP but 'just warming
up' by the standards of Detroit or NY

[Your Name]

Banning car police chases simply means criminal scum *know* they can
get away just by speeding from police ... so it's likely *more* of them
will attempt it, probably resulting in more accidents, not less.

[danny burstein]

In <ssavcu$1rmc$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> writes:

[snip]

>Banning car police chases simply means criminal scum *know* they can
>get away just by speeding from police ... so it's likely *more* of them
>will attempt it, probably resulting in more accidents, not less.

Bullshit.

As the advertising slogan had it a half century ago,
"you can't outrun Motorola".


--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

[Your Name]

On 2022-01-20 06:45:27 +0000, danny burstein said:
> In <ssavcu$1rmc$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> writes:
>
> [snip]
>
>> Banning car police chases simply means criminal scum *know* they can
>> get away just by speeding from police ... so it's likely *more* of them
>> will attempt it, probably resulting in more accidents, not less.
>
> Bullshit.

A large part of the reason there are so many crimes these days is
because criminal scum know the western "justice" system is weak-kneed
and at worst they'll get a free short stay in a luxury holiday camp.

> As the advertising slogan had it a half century ago,
> "you can't outrun Motorola".

Motorola aren't the police. :-p

Motorola isn't even a particularly good cellphone company these days
... Google bought it up, then two years later sold it off to China.

[Rhino]

It's all in the video at the link. The video is only about 2 minutes long.

> And multiple taserings? How far apart? (I ask because in the
> Dziezkanski case above the victim was tased 5 times in 30 seconds
> which caused cardiac arrest - and the victim was NOT aged)
>
> That's heavily over the top with respect to the OPP but 'just warming
> up' by the standards of Detroit or NY
>
>> There was apparently a police chase in this case as well, although we
>> don't actually see it. Under the circumstances, I'm assuming it was a
>> car chase:
>>
>> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/police-truck-chase-sudbury-1.6162557

--
Rhino

[BTR1701]

On Jan 19, 2022 at 7:15:15 AM PST, "Rhino" <no_offlin...@example.com>
wrote:

> On 2022-01-06 9:57 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The lunatics ARE running the liberal asylum.
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1478859437305589761
>>>
>> I remember as far back as high school they were hippie dippy people who
>> insisted that the police shouldn’t ever chase anybody for any reason. I
>> never did understand why.
>>
> We stopped most police chases in Ontario after some bad accidents
> involving vehicles who were fleeing police. At least one of these turned
> out to be teenaged joyriders and thus the deaths in these accidents were
> deemed unnecessary tragedies.

This one is pretty spectacular in its conclusion. Only one dead is the
criminal, who wasn't even being pursued on the ground, just tracked by
helicopter, as he raced the motorcycle he'd stolen along the city streets at
speeds approaching 100mph.

He chose... poorly.

https://twitter.com/CBSLA/status/1484279564423483395?s=20

[BTR1701]

On Jan 20, 2022 at 7:58:10 PM PST, "BTR1701" <atr...@mac.com> wrote:

> On Jan 19, 2022 at 7:15:15 AM PST, "Rhino" <no_offlin...@example.com
> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-01-06 9:57 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The lunatics ARE running the liberal asylum.
>>>>
>>>> https://twitter.com/jasonrantz/status/1478859437305589761
>>>>
>>> I remember as far back as high school they were hippie dippy people who
>>> insisted that the police shouldn’t ever chase anybody for any reason. I
>>> never did understand why.
>>>
>> We stopped most police chases in Ontario after some bad accidents
>> involving vehicles who were fleeing police. At least one of these turned
>> out to be teenaged joyriders and thus the deaths in these accidents were
>> deemed unnecessary tragedies.
>
> This one is pretty spectacular in its conclusion. Only one dead is th

> criminal, who wasn't even being pursued on the ground, just tracked b

> helicopter, as he raced the motorcycle he'd stolen along the city streets a

> speeds approaching 100mph.
>
> He chose... poorly.
>
> https://twitter.com/CBSLA/status/1484279564423483395?s=20

Here's another angle from the ground.

https://twitter.com/mozarella_chese/status/1484362380112908290?s=20

[anim8rfsk]

I’d like to point out that the scrubbing works really really well on that
video.

--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”

[Micky DuPree]

The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> writes:

> On Wed, 19 Jan 2022 06:28:31 +0000 (UTC),
> MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:

>> That said, there are a lot of problems with collateral damage in
>> high-speed pursuits (and with police-involved shootings in public
>> places). Canadian police procedure seems to be much more sane on the
>> whole.
>
> Canadian police manage to avoid the worst excesses of US poliicing but
> there are still the occasional atrocities. Things like the death of
> Robert Dziekanski who in Oct 2007 was fatally tasered 6 times in 30
> seconds.

It does seem self-contradictory to choose a presumably nonlethal weapon,
but then proceed to administer a lethal dose of it.

I was thinking of an example you've cited before, though, of multiple
Canadian law enforcement officers beating down a man with a large blade,
I think? Yeah, he was contused, but at least he was alive.

As you've said elsewhere, the general public tends to get its ideas
about how police encounters go down from film and TV, while real life is
usually less well contained.

-Micky

[The Horny Goat]

As I said the tasering case was a cause celebre in Canada when it
happened particularly during the perjury trial of the 4 officers who
were charged with falsifying their reports. No one said the victim was
mentally ill - he was just disoriented from being stuck in the airport
terminal for 12+ hours without food or drink and not speaking the
local language. I'm familiar with the specific area he was killed and
it's NOT a high volume area within the airport.

(My connection with the room is that it was the first place you
arrived at when arriving from overseas with commercial goods you
needed to declare for Customs.T he goods would typically be kept on a
baggage cart in a locked room until you returned from Customs with
your paperwork marked "taxes paid" at which point they brought out
your cart and you were good to go. This type of foreign buying trip
was something I did 15-20 times through the years)

In the second case the guy with the broadsword and leather armor was
at the top of the stairs leading to one of the busiest subway stops in
the city. Leather armor of course neutralizes tasers (which only work
where the darts can connect to flesh - and they don't have to
penetrate very far to get a debilitating zap) and it was clear the guy
WAS mentally ill and they wanted to get him out of there before the
peak of the rush hour.

In my opinion the police handled the second case extremely well.

At the time I asked a now retired city councillor who was a 27 year
police veteran how the first case would have been handled pre-tasers
and he described a strategy very much like what happened in the second
case. (The way the former officer described it "he'd probably have a
few bruises and possibly a broken bone or two or need dental work but
that's definitely an improvement on being dead")

And he was particularly venomous when he heard the 4 officers were
charged with falsifying their police reports.

I think most reasonable people would be supportive of how the second
case was handled.

I presume you understand this was an old school "heart of gold" police
captain of the type most metropolitain police departments wish they
had more of. Tough but fair and an exceptional listener who didn't
have time for bullcrap. In my books the only thing wrong with him is
that he's not 30 years younger.

[Micky DuPree]

The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> writes:

> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 13:45:21 +0000 (UTC),
> MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:

>> I was thinking of an example you've cited before, though, of multiple
>> Canadian law enforcement officers beating down a man with a large
>> blade, I think? Yeah, he was contused, but at least he was alive.
>>
>> As you've said elsewhere, the general public tends to get its ideas
>> about how police encounters go down from film and TV, while real life
>> is usually less well contained.
>
> As I said the tasering case was a cause celebre in Canada when it
> happened particularly during the perjury trial of the 4 officers who
> were charged with falsifying their reports. No one said the victim was
> mentally ill - he was just disoriented from being stuck in the airport
> terminal for 12+ hours without food or drink and not speaking the
> local language. I'm familiar with the specific area he was killed and
> it's NOT a high volume area within the airport.

> In the second case the guy with the broadsword and leather armor was
> at the top of the stairs leading to one of the busiest subway stops in
> the city. Leather armor of course neutralizes tasers (which only work
> where the darts can connect to flesh - and they don't have to
> penetrate very far to get a debilitating zap) and it was clear the guy
> WAS mentally ill and they wanted to get him out of there before the
> peak of the rush hour.
>
> In my opinion the police handled the second case extremely well.

I concur.

> At the time I asked a now retired city councillor who was a 27 year
> police veteran how the first case would have been handled pre-tasers
> and he described a strategy very much like what happened in the second
> case. (The way the former officer described it "he'd probably have a
> few bruises and possibly a broken bone or two or need dental work but
> that's definitely an improvement on being dead")

That makes it particularly sad, since presumably the taser is meant to
be safer for both sides. The officers don't have to close with the
suspect, and the suspect has a shorter stay in the hospital. As I said,
I don't understand why one would reach for a weapon meant to be
nonlethal but then administer a lethal dose of it.

> And he was particularly venomous when he heard the 4 officers were
> charged with falsifying their police reports.
>
> I think most reasonable people would be supportive of how the second
> case was handled.

Absolutely.

> I presume you understand this was an old school "heart of gold" police
> captain of the type most metropolitain police departments wish they
> had more of. Tough but fair and an exceptional listener who didn't
> have time for bullcrap. In my books the only thing wrong with him is
> that he's not 30 years younger.

And we can't clone him.

-Micky

[The Horny Goat]

On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 12:32:32 +0000 (UTC),

MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:

>The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 13:45:21 +0000 (UTC),
>> MDu...@theworld.com.snip.to.reply (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>
>> At the time I asked a now retired city councillor who was a 27 year
>> police veteran how the first case would have been handled pre-tasers
>> and he described a strategy very much like what happened in the second
>> case. (The way the former officer described it "he'd probably have a
>> few bruises and possibly a broken bone or two or need dental work but
>> that's definitely an improvement on being dead")
>
>That makes it particularly sad, since presumably the taser is meant to
>be safer for both sides. The officers don't have to close with the
>suspect, and the suspect has a shorter stay in the hospital. As I said,
>I don't understand why one would reach for a weapon meant to be
>nonlethal but then administer a lethal dose of it.

The coroner's report said 6 taser shots received within 30 seconds
triggered his cardiac arrest. Now given there were 4 officers in
attendance that means at least one of them tasered him more than once
even if they all fired.

All for being 6'6", arriving at the airport from abroad not speaking
the local language and "attacking" 4 armed officers ... with a stapler
- I kid you not. And if a passerby hadn't had a cell phone with a
camera they would have gotten away with it.

>> I presume you understand this was an old school "heart of gold" police
>> captain of the type most metropolitain police departments wish they
>> had more of. Tough but fair and an exceptional listener who didn't
>> have time for bullcrap. In my books the only thing wrong with him is
>> that he's not 30 years younger.
>
>And we can't clone him.

Oh he has children (including a drop dead gorgeous daughter) but so
far as I know none of them have gone into policing. Before his
retirement I was a guest in his home several times though he has moved
to the BC Gulf Islands which is certainly a beautiful place though not
somewhere I'd want to retire to (though my wife would).