TV Guide's 50 Greatest Stars of All Time thoughts
James C Carson
For those who haven't seen the list in the upcoming week's TV Guide:
TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
1. Lucille Ball
2. Johnny Carson
3. Jackie Gleason
4. James Garner
5. Mary Tyler Moore
6. Oprah Winfrey
7. Carol Burnett
8. Michael Landon
9. Bill Cosby
10. Dick Van Dyke
11. Lassie
12. Andy Griffith
13. George Burns and Gracie Allen
14. Milton Berle
15. Walter Cronkite
16. Dinah Shore
17. Bob Newhart
18. Richard Chamberlain
19. Tom Selleck
20. James Arness
21. Peter Falk
22. Edward R. Murrow
23. Miss Piggy
24. Robert Young
25. Bob Hope
26. Farrah Fawcett
27. Don Knotts
28. Roseanne
29. Sid Caesar
30. Jerry Seinfeld
31. Phil Silvers
32. Rocky and Bullwinkle
33. Telly Savalas
34. Barbara Walters
35. Fred Rogers
36. David Janssen
37. Susan Lucci
38. Carroll O'Connor
39. Michael J. Fox
40. Patty Duke
41. Alan Alda
42. Phil Donahue
43. Lawrence Welk
44. Raymond Burr
45. David Letterman
46. Julia Child
47. Howard Cosell
48. Bart Simpson
49. Ricky Nelson
50. Ed Sullivan
A few that I would have included:
- Henry Winkler
- Kermit the Frog (instead of Miss Piggy)
- Bugs Bunny (instead of Rocky and Bullwinkle -- I'm as big a Moose
and Squirrel fan as anyone)
- Harry Anderson
Also, except for Cosell, sports figures were not given consideration.
The best nominees from this field IMHO would be Arnold Palmer and
Michael Jordan, plus ABC's Voice of the Olympics for so many years,
Jim McKay.
Any thoughts on TV Guide's 50 ?
---Jim
magicarb
>jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu (James C Carson) wrote:
>For those who haven't seen the list in the upcoming week's TV Guide:
>TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
<The List - snipped>
>A few that I would have included:
>- Kermit the Frog (instead of Miss Piggy)
Not just any Muppet, where was Jim Henson's name!
>- Bugs Bunny (instead of Rocky and Bullwinkle -- I'm as big a Moose
> and Squirrel fan as anyone)
Not so much. Bugs was/is movies, Jay Ward (Crusader Rabbit) was TV.
>Also, except for Cosell, sports figures were not given consideration.
Most sports figures didn't/don't affect the medium of television as
much as the coverage they receive ON television.
>...plus ABC's Voice of the Olympics for so many years, Jim McKay.
I'll give you that one, for sure. And, behind the scenes, Roone
Arledge, BIG time.
arb
John Stone
Let me guess, is Bart Simpson on the list? Most likely, after all
TV Guide is Fox. Ed O'Neil? please I hope not. John S.
Mark Maral
How about Capt. Kangaroo - Bob Keeshan. The
Mr. Rogers of my era.
Mark
KLB
> > >jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu (James C Carson) wrote:
> > >For those who haven't seen the list in the upcoming week's TV Guide:
> > >TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
> >
> > <The List - snipped>
> >
Okay, let me get this straight, they put Burns and Allen, as well as Bob
Hope on the list, but they didn't put Jack Benny?
And, Milton Berle, Mr. Television was number 14? Are they nuts??
--
--KLB
st93...@pip.cc.brandeis.edu
" " -Harpo Marx (smarter words were never spoken)
Check out my web page at: http://www.brandeis.edu/students/st931200
Bill Groves
James C Carson wrote:
>
> A few that I would have included:
>
> - Henry Winkler
> - Kermit the Frog (instead of Miss Piggy)
> - Bugs Bunny (instead of Rocky and Bullwinkle -- I'm as big a Moose
> and Squirrel fan as anyone)
> - Harry Anderson
>
> Also, except for Cosell, sports figures were not given consideration.
> The best nominees from this field IMHO would be Arnold Palmer and
> Michael Jordan, plus ABC's Voice of the Olympics for so many years,
> Jim McKay.
>
> Any thoughts on TV Guide's 50 ?
>
> ---Jim
>
> jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu
What about Fred MacMurray? My Three Sons ran for 12 years, for crying
out loud.
BrYan Westbrook
Only coming through in waves, jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu (James C Carson) wrote:
>Also, except for Cosell, sports figures were not given consideration.
>The best nominees from this field IMHO would be Arnold Palmer and
>Michael Jordan, plus ABC's Voice of the Olympics for so many years,
>Jim McKay.
What about O.J.? He has certainly changed (temporarilly, I hope) the face of
tv. TVG certainly thought he was a major influence when they did that most
memorable scenes issue.
_______________________________
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Carpal Tunnel Resource Page The Woody Allen FAQ
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Annie Keitz
John Stone <sto...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
>Let me guess, is Bart Simpson on the list? Most likely, after all
>TV Guide is Fox. Ed O'Neil? please I hope not. John S.
Bart was 48th? I think. I don't think any other Fox actor/actress was
on the list, very surprising.
Cheers to TV Guide for putting Lassie #11!
Would have liked to have seen Tony Randal or Jack Glugman on it though
:-(
Annandale, VA Viewers for Quality Television
ke...@his.com http://www.vqt.org
Pamela-Marie
>
>TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
>A few that I would have included:
>
>- Henry Winkler
He could replace Bart Simpson
>- Kermit the Frog (instead of Miss Piggy)
>- Bugs Bunny (instead of Rocky and Bullwinkle -- I'm as big a Moose
> and Squirrel fan as anyone)
I agree with all of these. I think Kermit definitely was shafted, he is as
important to muppets as mickey mouse is to disney.
Pamela-Marie
Chris Lambert!
Jim, good to see you. Your team's better than mine, but you knew that.
Personally, even if you're not a game show nut like myself, I'd think you
would include Bob Barker on the Top 50. The guy's been on TV every weekday
since 1957 for cryin' out loud.
I also agree with Roone Arledge...and would add Pete Rozelle.
Oh, and Steve Allen.
-C!
--
Chris Lambert! --> http://ChrisL.home.ml.org <--- wlam...@indiana.edu
That URL leads to the Award-Winning Game $how Page! and Big Ten Women's
Basketball On-Line. Plus my new "Match Game" Page and my IU wbkb page.
All that, and it softens hands while you do dishes.
Pamela-Marie
west...@hsnp.com (BrYan Westbrook) wrote:
>Only coming through in waves, jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu (James C Carson) wrote:
>
>>Also, except for Cosell, sports figures were not given consideration.
>>The best nominees from this field IMHO would be Arnold Palmer and
>>Michael Jordan, plus ABC's Voice of the Olympics for so many years,
>>Jim McKay.
>
>What about O.J.? He has certainly changed (temporarilly, I hope) the face of
>tv. TVG certainly thought he was a major influence when they did that most
>memorable scenes issue.
OJ is hardly one of the greatest stars!!!!
My vote is for Jim Mc Kay as well. Otherwise, I can't think of anyone who
I was digusted to see missing.
Pamela-Marie
thomas conroy
James C Carson (jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu) wrote:
: For those who haven't seen the list in the upcoming week's TV Guide:
: TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
: 1. Lucille Ball
Appropriate #1 choice; she did help to define the sitcom
: 2. Johnny Carson
ditto; he helped to define a genre
: 3. Jackie Gleason
a great presence
: 4. James Garner
that's ranking him a bit too high, IMHO
: 5. Mary Tyler Moore
deserves to rank high for having been part of two classic sitcoms
: 6. Oprah Winfrey
overrated here, but classier than Jennie Jones et. al. but I'm not a big
daytime talk show fan
: 7. Carol Burnett
hosted one of the best sketch shows in TV history
: 8. Michael Landon
a bit too wholesome for my tastes, but a decent enough actor. Played a
pretty good teenage werewolf, in fact, the DEFINITIVE teenage werewolf.
: 9. Bill Cosby
does this include the Jello commercials?
: 10. Dick Van Dyke
didn't really do very much on the tube after the Dick Van Dyke Show, or
am I forgetting something?
: 11. Lassie
I prefer Flipper.
: 12. Andy Griffith
gets credit for what was really good ensemble acting on Mayberry
RFD/The AGS; the other actors were really more interesting
: 13. George Burns and Gracie Allen
a great comedy team and deserve to rank much higher. The Burns and Allen show
was close to high conceptual comedy, at least in its best moments
: 14. Milton Berle
I wasn't born yet, but everything would shut down when Uncle Miltie was on
each week, so I guess he has to be included in the top 50
: 15. Walter Cronkite
: 16. Dinah Shore
my favorite Dinah Shore moment; Dinah's interview with Iggy Pop and David
Bowie back in the late 1970. I wish I owned a VCR back then. But, for the
most part, I fail to see what's so special about her. Could someone enlighten
me?
: 17. Bob Newhart
a good choice with a unique style of humor. There's nothing quite like a late
night rerun of The Bob Newhart Show. Inspired a drinking game, so there you
go.
: 18. Richard Chamberlain
seems, to me, to be an epitome of a certain school of inauthentically bad, yet
passible, characteristically miniseries/movie-of-the-week style of acting. How
come he made the list, and the eons more charasmatic bad actor William
Shatner did not?
: 19. Tom Selleck
probably wouldn't have come close to making my top 50
: 20. James Arness
decent choice
: 21. Peter Falk
excellent choice
: 22. Edward R. Murrow
heroic choice
: 23. Miss Piggy
not one of my favorite muppets, but I guess she's famous
: 24. Robert Young
I grew up watching Marcus Welby, so he probably would have made it into my
top 50, but mostly for sentimental reasons; his Mr. Coffee commercials are
also evocative of the shag green carpet era
: 25. Bob Hope
old ski nose. I guess he'd have to be included, but I prefer Dean Martin
style smarm to the Bob Hope version
: 26. Farrah Fawcett
What ever happened to my red swimsuit poster, anyway?
: 27. Don Knotts
from Mr. Chicken to Mr. Furley, a great American original
: 28. Roseanne
whatever
: 29. Sid Caesar
sort of an interesting physical performer from the golden era
: 30. Jerry Seinfeld
absolutely. the man revolutionized the sitcom (for good and bad)
: 31. Phil Silvers
a great choice - a very funny, charismatic guy
: 32. Rocky and Bullwinkle
interesting choice. no compliants here.
: 33. Telly Savalas
even if it is for one particular character/show, it is one of the
better characters/shows of its era
: 34. Barbara Walters
if you could be a twee, what kind of twee would you be? sorry, but I have a
hard time taking her too seriously.
: 35. Fred Rogers
he's still on the air, looking old and grey, but stilll visiting the Land of
Make Believe.
: 36. David Janssen
what else has he done besides the Fugative?
: 37. Susan Lucci
I never liked soap operas, even (or especially) when they were supposedly
"hip" (the Luke and Laura early 80s, when I was dismayed to see my 60s
informed values give way to upsetting yuppie/materialist/neo-conservatism)
but I take it that as actors from such crap goes, she's said to have some
actual talent.
: 38. Carroll O'Connor
despite the weaknesses of Archie Bunker's place, definitely belongs.
: 39. Michael J. Fox
Michael Landon was a much better teenage werewolf.
: 40. Patty Duke
I mostly remember her accepting an award (an Oscar?) while completely
wasted.
: 41. Alan Alda
is best when he goes against casting (ie. plays a scoundral)
: 42. Phil Donahue
once upon a time had a halfway interesting, substantive talk show,
(before the advent of "talk shows" turning into trash TV)
: 43. Lawrence Welk
seeing reruns of this on PBS is a delirous experience. Its so bad its
entertaining (but in a way these geritol pitchmen could not have possibly
imagined). Anyway, it takes an hour or so of some Buckweat Zydaco to hear
the musicality of the accordian, arguably the musical instrument with the
worst reputation.
: 44. Raymond Burr
classy actor
: 45. David Letterman
used to be so much funnier, before he took himself so seriously (or fawned so
much over his guests - now practically all his fellow rich and famous).
However, his anniversary shows prove that he's still capable
of comedy greatness
: 46. Julia Child
no one messes up on camera quite as well
: 47. Howard Cosell
in spite of the occasional racist/reactionary blurting, one of the more
insightful commentators
: 48. Bart Simpson
certainly an icon
: 49. Ricky Nelson
probably the most musically talented teen idols (not that there's much
competition)
: 50. Ed Sullivan
another icon
Brian Westley
>Any thoughts on TV Guide's 50 ?
I thought Ernie Kovacs was more significant than, say,
Michael J. Fox.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
Nick Pedicini
bart simpson? before:
dick clark?
jack klugman and tony randall?
ron howard?
carl reiner and mel brooks?
NJP
Mark Maral <ma...@Sun.COM> wrote in article
<58n9g9$h...@male.EBay.Sun.COM>...
John Stone
Bill Groves wrote:
>
> James C Carson wrote:
> >
>
> > A few that I would have included:
> >
> > - Henry Winkler
> > - Bugs Bunny (instead of Rocky and Bullwinkle -- I'm as big a Moose
> > and Squirrel fan as anyone)
> >
> > Also, except for Cosell, sports figures were not given consideration.
> > The best nominees from this field IMHO would be Arnold Palmer and
> > Michael Jordan, plus ABC's Voice of the Olympics for so many years,
> > Jim McKay.
> >
> >
> >
> > jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu
>
> What about Fred MacMurray? My Three Sons ran for 12 years, for crying
> out loud.
A few choices that TV guide made that I would not have included:
Ricky Nelson - their reasoning is that he sold a lot of records
by singing songs on the show and paved the way
for MTV style videos - OH please give me a break
here!! what about Dick Clark, Ed Sullivan, Smothers
Brothers etc. surely they with their music guest
stars have to count for something (Ed Sullivan did
make the list of course but to elevate Ricky Nelson,
I was LOL when I saw that.
Tom Selleck - A second rate actor at best, who comes up with these
choices?.
Michael J. Fox - they have to be kidding me - OK Family Ties was
kind of a fun show but not a exactly a groundbreaker.
Both Andy Griffith and Don Knotts? - I like both actors but two from
the same show is a bit much.
Farah Fawcett Majors - she sold a lot of posters back in 1976 with
that hair and her smile but hardly a great
actor or influence as far as I am concerned.
The Burning Bed was a decent TV movie though.
I wouldn't have put her on the list.
Miss Piggy - I like the muppets in general but she always got on my
nerves, I would have picked Kermit.
There were some other poor choices but I can't remember them at the
moment - feel free to add to the list.
John S.
to...@fred.net
KLB (st93...@pip.cc.brandeis.edu) wrote:
:
: > > >For those who haven't seen the list in the upcoming week's TV Guide:
: > >
: > > <The List - snipped>
: > >
: Okay, let me get this straight, they put Burns and Allen, as well as Bob
: Hope on the list, but they didn't put Jack Benny?
:
: And, Milton Berle, Mr. Television was number 14? Are they nuts??
Ed Sullivan at #50; James Garner at #3. Teah, right.
And I agree with Roone Arledge.
At least the cast of Friends didn't make it.
To...@fred.Net
http://www.fred.net/tomr
Marianne Becktel
> My vote is for Jim Mc Kay as well. Otherwise, I can't think of anyone who
> I was digusted to see missing.
>
Munich, when the terrorist attack unfolded. Most riveting.
Marianne B
Ian J. Ball
> Cheers to TV Guide for putting Lassie #11!
>
> Would have liked to have seen Tony Randal or Jack Glugman on it though
> :-(
I only saw a couple of outrages. There was one inclusion that should *not*
have been in there (Farrah Fawcet).
But there were several *exclusions* that bugged me. One was Bob Denver who
was on two important or groundbreaking shows (Gilligan's Island, Dobbie
Gillis). In addition, I also though Buddy Ebsen should be in there for his
two shows. Klugman's also a good point for his two shows (The Odd Couple,
Quincy ME).
--
Ian J. Ball | Want my TV episode guides or rec.arts.tv FAQ?
Grad Student, UCLA | http://members.aol.com/IJBall/WWW/IJBall.html
IJB...@aol.com | ftp://members.aol.com/IJBall3/FTP/
i...@ucla.edu | "What to do, with time so short?..."
Ian J. Ball
In article <32B007...@pilot.msu.edu>, John Stone
<sto...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
> A few choices that TV guide made that I would not have included:
>
> Ricky Nelson - their reasoning is that he sold a lot of records
> by singing songs on the show and paved the way
> for MTV style videos - OH please give me a break
> here!!
He was an icon and heartthrob of the 50's, and a defining one at that. His
inclusion is warrented.
> Tom Selleck - A second rate actor at best, who comes up with these
> choices?
This is your opinion. But objectively, Selleck was in one of, if not *the*
defining drama seres of the 1980's. His inclusion was warrented.
(Speaking of this, was Larry Hagmn in there? He *should* have been if he
wasn't!)
> Michael J. Fox - they have to be kidding me - OK Family Ties was
> kind of a fun show but not a exactly a groundbreaker.
Actually, it was a groundbreaker. And "Spin City" may add to this list.
His inclusion is warrented.
> Both Andy Griffith and Don Knotts? - I like both actors but two from
> the same show is a bit much.
Only Knotts. His portray strikes me as over-the-top and dated. Knotts is
probably in there for inspiring all the "Kramers", "Harrys", etc., but I'm
iffy on his inclusion.
Griffith was at least in two prominent series, so he deserves to be in there.
> Farah Fawcett Majors - she sold a lot of posters back in 1976 with
> that hair and her smile but hardly a great
> actor or influence as far as I am concerned.
> The Burning Bed was a decent TV movie though.
> I wouldn't have put her on the list.
Are you kidding?! There is *no* way Fawcett should have been in here! What
a joke!
> Miss Piggy - I like the muppets in general but she always got on my
> nerves, I would have picked Kermit.
I agree. But Kermit has gotten the shaft not only from TV Guide, but also
from the Muppet people themselves! Is Kermit even still on "Sesame
Street"?! He was like their original Muppet!
> There were some other poor choices but I can't remember them at the
> moment - feel free to add to the list.
As I said, I agree with some of your peeves, but not others.
RFerrie
Ian J. Ball wrote:
<snip>
> I agree. But Kermit has gotten the shaft not only from TV Guide, but also
> from the Muppet people themselves! Is Kermit even still on "Sesame
> Street"?! He was like their original Muppet!
Ian, my understanding is that Kermit was "retired" when Jim Henson died,
as he was the ONE Muppet that nobody else felt they could do justice to -
it was Henson's signature voice, etc. etc. He is no longer an "active"
muppet out of respect, not insult. FWIW.
Renee
John Stone
> from the Muppet people themselves! Is Kermit even still on "Sesame
> Street"?! He was like their original Muppet!
>
> > moment - feel free to add to the list.
>
> As I said, I agree with some of your peeves, but not others.
> --
> Ian J. Ball | Want my TV episode guides or rec.arts.tv FAQ?
> Grad Student, UCLA | http://members.aol.com/IJBall/WWW/IJBall.html
> IJB...@aol.com | ftp://members.aol.com/IJBall3/FTP/
> i...@ucla.edu | "What to do, with time so short?..."
Well a list like this is always subjective, I think perhaps Larry Hagman
should have been included. Magnum PI was a "defining drama" of the
80's"? well maybe, if so it shows how low drama had fallen in that
decade.
I fail to see how "Family Ties" was groundbreaking in any way, can
you explain further?
Ok, maybe I was a bit hard on Ricky Nelson but his inclusion is still
suspect in my mind.
Its fun to pick apart a list like this, we all have different opinions
and can learn something from each other.
John S.
Matt Ackeret
In article <58pqba$6...@news.istar.ca>, RFerrie <rfe...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>Ian J. Ball wrote:
><snip>
>> from the Muppet people themselves! Is Kermit even still on "Sesame
>> Street"?! He was like their original Muppet!
>as he was the ONE Muppet that nobody else felt they could do justice to -
>it was Henson's signature voice, etc. etc. He is no longer an "active"
>muppet out of respect, not insult. FWIW.
Nope that's not true. Kermit continues to be done. For example, he's
on "Muppets Tonight" (whenever ABC deigns us and shows it).
You may be thinking about Ernie.
--
mat...@apple.com
Christopher Siciliano
James C Carson wrote:
>
> For those who haven't seen the list in the upcoming week's TV Guide:
>
> TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
>
> 2. Johnny Carson
> 3. Jackie Gleason
> 4. James Garner
> 5. Mary Tyler Moore
> 6. Oprah Winfrey
> 7. Carol Burnett
> 8. Michael Landon
> 9. Bill Cosby
> 10. Dick Van Dyke
> 11. Lassie
> 12. Andy Griffith
> 15. Walter Cronkite
> 16. Dinah Shore
>
> - Henry Winkler
> - Kermit the Frog (instead of Miss Piggy)
> - Bugs Bunny (instead of Rocky and Bullwinkle -- I'm as big a Moose
> and Squirrel fan as anyone)
> - Harry Anderson
>
> Also, except for Cosell, sports figures were not given consideration.
> The best nominees from this field IMHO would be Arnold Palmer and
> Michael Jordan, plus ABC's Voice of the Olympics for so many years,
> Jim McKay.
>
> Any thoughts on TV Guide's 50 ?
>
> ---Jim
>
> jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu
Jim Mckay should be on their for not only the Olympics, but for "Wide
World of Sports, also.
Chris
Greg Sarcasm Is A Way Of Life Spira
In <jcarson.850326280@hubcap> jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu (James C Carson) writes:
>For those who haven't seen the list in the upcoming week's TV Guide:
>TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
>A few that I would have included:
>- Henry Winkler
Big role in one series, but I wouldn't have put him in the top 50.
>- Kermit the Frog (instead of Miss Piggy)
I agree here. Kermit rules!
>- Bugs Bunny (instead of Rocky and Bullwinkle -- I'm as big a Moose
> and Squirrel fan as anyone)
I tend to think Bugs is more a movie star than a tv star; that's where his
origins lie.
>- Harry Anderson
Harry's had one very good but not great series and another mediocre
but successful series; I wouldn't put him on there.
>Also, except for Cosell, sports figures were not given consideration.
>The best nominees from this field IMHO would be Arnold Palmer and
>Michael Jordan, plus ABC's Voice of the Olympics for so many years,
>Jim McKay.
I think its pretty clear that they weren't looking at athletes - if
they had, they's have to look at newsmakers and put folks like Ronald
Reagan on the list.
In general, I don't think there are many sportscasters who belong on
the list. Maybe McKay and John Madden.
>Any thoughts on TV Guide's 50 ?
verall, I thought it was a very good list.
Greg
Barb Johnson
In article <58qih8$c...@news4.snfc21.pacbell.net>
Pamela-Marie <pamel...@juno.com> writes:
>
>rgil...@netnet.net (Richard) wrote:
>>Where's Larry Hagman? His performance as J.R. Ewing in DALLAS was one
>>of the dominant icons of its era, plus he had a fine run on I DREAM OF
>>GENIE. Very few performers have excelled in both sitcoms and prime
>>time dramas.
>
>This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
>how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
>
>Pamela-Marie
In that case, how about Steve Allen?
--Barb
Richard
Where's Larry Hagman? His performance as J.R. Ewing in DALLAS was one
of the dominant icons of its era, plus he had a fine run on I DREAM OF
GENIE. Very few performers have excelled in both sitcoms and prime
time dramas.
Richard
Clifford Blau
con...@bu.edu (thomas conroy) wrote:
>James C Carson (jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu) wrote:
>: 14. Milton Berle
>I wasn't born yet, but everything would shut down when Uncle Miltie was on
>each week, so I guess he has to be included in the top 50
Actually, should be in the top 5, if not number one. Proclaimed as
the man who sold more tv sets than anyone else.
>: 36. David Janssen
>what else has he done besides the Fugitive?
Richard Diamond, Private Eye and Harry-O.
>
--------------
The opinions expressed in this post are mine, if you agree with them, and someone else's if you don't.
Pamela-Marie
This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
Jim Hill
In article <58pqba$6...@news.istar.ca>, RFerrie <rfe...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>Ian J. Ball wrote:
><snip>
>> I agree. But Kermit has gotten the shaft not only from TV Guide, but also
>> from the Muppet people themselves!
>
>as he was the ONE Muppet that nobody else felt they could do justice to -
>it was Henson's signature voice, etc. etc. He is no longer an "active"
>muppet out of respect, not insult. FWIW.
Sure, but a metric shitload of the people on TVG's list are pushing up
daisies. Why should Kermit have been excluded because (a) Henson died
and (b) Kemrit is "retired?"
Jim
--
jim...@swcp.com http://www.swcp.com/~jimhill/
"Greed, for lack of a better word, is good."
JRE26
Hello? We're overlooking the obvious here!!!!!
Larry Hagman, aka J.R. Ewing, holder of the second most watched television
show in the history of television. He also helped make cliffhangers a
staple in our television landscape. Serialized programs in prime time owe
their existence to the success of Dallas.
Need I say more?
(someone please post an email address for TV Guide, I want to set them
straight!!!)
Pamela-Marie
IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) wrote:
>In article <58nne0$p...@news2.his.com>, ke...@his.com wrote:
>
>> Cheers to TV Guide for putting Lassie #11!
>>
>> Would have liked to have seen Tony Randal or Jack Glugman on it though
>> :-(
>
>I only saw a couple of outrages. There was one inclusion that should *not*
>have been in there (Farrah Fawcet).
>
>But there were several *exclusions* that bugged me. One was Bob Denver who
>was on two important or groundbreaking shows (Gilligan's Island, Dobbie
>Gillis). In addition, I also though Buddy Ebsen should be in there for his
>two shows. Klugman's also a good point for his two shows (The Odd Couple,
>Quincy ME).
This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
Farrah Fawcett is the most remembered "Angel"
Buddy Ebsen is definitely not on my list and as good as the Odd Couple was
it hardly was the greatest show its time.
Pamela-Marie
LoreChick
In article <32AF1A...@pilot.msu.edu>, John Stone
<sto...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>Let me guess, is Bart Simpson on the list? Most likely, after all
>TV Guide is Fox. Ed O'Neil? please I hope not. John S.
>
>
Bart Simpson is number 48 on the list.
Bart Simpson, but no Bill Shatner? I'm disappointed...
LLAW,
Anne K.
"I'm not (gay), but if people want to think so, it's fine, that's part of the mystery."
- Brent Spiner
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=
A Cat's Christmas
'Twas the night before Christmas
and all through the house
Not a creature was stirring,
not even a mouse.
'Cuz the cat had pounced on him
and tore him apart -
Ate his mousey intestines
and chewed up his heart.
Kitty thought he heard sleighbells,
which made him take pause -
He stopped daintily licking
the blood from his claws.
"Must be Santa," thought Kitty
(that quite clever cat)
'Cuz nobody else climbs down
the chimney like that.
Indeed it was ol' Santa,
so jolly and fat
With a load of presents
and all for the cat!
"Wow, the best Christmas ever!"
Kitty thought with a purr,
Then he coughed up a hairball
and shed some more fur.
Meowy Christmas.....
Jay Smith
A top 50 TV list and no mention of Ernie Kovacs?
John Stone
Odd Couple was not the greatest show of its time but was Charlie's
Angels the greatest of its time? And is Charlie's Angels really
more "famous" than the Odd Couple? Farah Fawcett's selection just
shows how shallow TV Guide can be.
I would have put Buddy Ebsen on the list, not only was the Beverly
Hillbillies one of my favorite shows, I also liked Davey Crockett
on Disney which Ebsen starred as Crockett's (sp?) side kick.
John S.
es
Pamela-Marie <pamel...@juno.com> wrote:
>rgil...@netnet.net (Richard) wrote:
>>Where's Larry Hagman? His performance as J.R. Ewing in DALLAS was one
>>of the dominant icons of its era, plus he had a fine run on I DREAM OF
>>GENIE. Very few performers have excelled in both sitcoms and prime
>>time dramas.
>This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
>how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
>Pamela-Marie
But Larry Hagman's "Who Shot JR" episode was, at the time, THE most
watched show in the US...additionally, he created a character that
endures so well in the collective culture, he IS our culture to many
tv watchers overseas. THAT'S groundbreaking!
es
Ian J. Ball
> Where's Larry Hagman? His performance as J.R. Ewing in DALLAS was one
> of the dominant icons of its era, plus he had a fine run on I DREAM OF
> GENIE. Very few performers have excelled in both sitcoms and prime
> time dramas.
That's what I said, in another thread. Another major omission...
Ian J. Ball
In article <58qig8$c...@news4.snfc21.pacbell.net>, Pamela-Marie
<pamel...@juno.com> wrote:
> IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) wrote:
> >I only saw a couple of outrages. There was one inclusion that should *not*
> >have been in there (Farrah Fawcet).
> >
> >But there were several *exclusions* that bugged me. One was Bob Denver who
> >was on two important or groundbreaking shows (Gilligan's Island, Dobbie
> >Gillis). In addition, I also though Buddy Ebsen should be in there for his
> >two shows. Klugman's also a good point for his two shows (The Odd Couple,
> >Quincy ME).
>
> This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
> how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
It should be more about *influence* than anything.
But you objected to Hagamn earlier. He was perhaps the most famous "star"
of the 1980's, *and* he was in *the* groundbreaking show of the late 70's
(created the nighttime soap genre), *and* he was in another very
successful series of the 60's.
Hagman, at least, should have been in there.
> Farrah Fawcett is the most remembered "Angel"
Very short-lived fame. Not worthy of note.
> Buddy Ebsen is definitely not on my list
He was in the highest rated sitcom of the 1960's. I think you could make a
good argument that he should have been included.
> and as good as the Odd Couple was
> it hardly was the greatest show its time.
It was *among* the greatest of its time though. But I agree that it's not
so clear cut in this case.
Someone else they omitted: ***Rod Serling***.
Alan Sepinwall
In article <IJBall-1212961000020001@mac_rbk_3.chem.ucla.edu>,
Ian J. Ball <IJB...@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <32B007...@pilot.msu.edu>, John Stone
><sto...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
>
>> A few choices that TV guide made that I would not have included:
>>
>> Ricky Nelson - their reasoning is that he sold a lot of records
>> by singing songs on the show and paved the way
>> for MTV style videos - OH please give me a break
>> here!!
>
>He was an icon and heartthrob of the 50's, and a defining one at that. His
>inclusion is warrented.
Agree fully, and yet later you say...
>
>Are you kidding?! There is *no* way Fawcett should have been in here! What
>a joke!
Fawcett was *at least* as huge in the 70s as Nelson was in the 50s, and
probably quite a lot bigger. The fact that she starred on an unrepentant
piece of crap doesn't matter; this is the 50 biggest *stars*, not the 50
best performers, or anything like that. Fawcett was a supernova in the
mid-late 70s.
Alan Sepinwall * e-mail: sepi...@force.stwing.upenn.edu
Homepage: http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~sepinwal/
NYPD Blue page: http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~sepinwal/nypd.html
*******************************************************
Save EZ Streets! Contact "Save...@aol.com"
or visit http://members.aol.com/SaveEZSts
for more information.
********************************************************
wal...@donovn.com
In article <19961213054...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, jr...@aol.com
(JRE26) wrote:
A mediocre actor, so so personality, who got lucky with a single hit.
k
Kelly Richmond
First, I'm surprised by the omission of Ted Danson -- the star of one of the
most popular and critically acclaimed comedies of all time. And don't say it
was an ensemble piece -- so was the Mary Tyler Moore show, the Bob Newhart
show, etc., but those stars were recognized for being the glue that held the
show together. And Danson was at least as important to Cheers as Alan Alda was
to MASH, if not more so, and Alda is on the list.
Second, Tom Selleck #19???? Give me a break.
Kelly Richmond
>> Tom Selleck - A second rate actor at best, who comes up with these
>> choices?
>This is your opinion. But objectively, Selleck was in one of, if not *the*
>defining drama seres of the 1980's. His inclusion was warrented.
Magnum P.I. was the "defining" drama of the 1980s? Well, I guess I'll buy that
if you mean that it took a mediocre show to define a pretty worthless decade.
But Magnum was one of the least *significant* shows -- far overshadowned by
Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, 30something and China Beach, to name just a
few -- so Selleck's inclusion was a bad joke.
Pamela-Marie
Who? :)
Pamela-Marie
Pamela-Marie
RFerrie <rfe...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>Ian J. Ball wrote:
><snip>
>> I agree. But Kermit has gotten the shaft not only from TV Guide, but also
>> Street"?! He was like their original Muppet!
>Ian, my understanding is that Kermit was "retired" when Jim Henson died,
>as he was the ONE Muppet that nobody else felt they could do justice to -
>it was Henson's signature voice, etc. etc. He is no longer an "active"
>muppet out of respect, not insult. FWIW.
As a distant accquaintance of Brian Henson (Jim's son), I can verify that
Kermit *is not* "retired". His voice is being done by another puppet and
Kermit recently stared in "Muppet Treasure Island" and "Muppets Tonight"
So Ian is right, Kermit was shafted!
Pamela-Marie
Pamela-Marie
IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) wrote:
>In article <58qig8$c...@news4.snfc21.pacbell.net>, Pamela-Marie
><pamel...@juno.com> wrote:
>> IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) wrote:
>> >I only saw a couple of outrages. There was one inclusion that should >> >*not* have been in there (Farrah Fawcet).
ligan's Island, >> >Dobbie Gillis). In addition, I also though Buddy Ebsen should be in
>> >there for his two shows. Klugman's also a good point for his two shows
>> >(The Odd Couple, Quincy ME).
>> This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
>> how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
>
>It should be more about *influence* than anything.
I agree. Buddy Ebsen and Bob Denver have influenced very little. Farrah
Fawcett has influenced a lot.
>But you objected to Hagamn earlier. He was perhaps the most famous "star"
>of the 1980's, *and* he was in *the* groundbreaking show of the late 70's
>(created the nighttime soap genre), *and* he was in another very
>successful series of the 60's.
>
>Hagman, at least, should have been in there.
Well...all right, I'll trade him for David Jansen or Julia Child
>> Farrah Fawcett is the most remembered "Angel"
>
>Very short-lived fame. Not worthy of note.
Maybe not for you becuase she is a lousy actress, I agree, but I can see
that this beauty icon of one of the most famous shows in the history of
television and a cult classic, who is the most remembered actress is
included.
>> Buddy Ebsen is definitely not on my list
>
>He was in the highest rated sitcom of the 1960's. I think you could make >a good argument that he should have been included.
But I doubt he was considered after the show left the air.
>Someone else they omitted: ***Rod Serling***.
Oh please! I would have just as quickly added Aaron Spelling! Goodness
knows he's had the biggest impact on night time TV.
Pamela-Marie
Pamela-Marie
ma...@Sun.COM (Mark Maral) wrote:
>How about Capt. Kangaroo - Bob Keeshan. The
>Mr. Rogers of my era.
As much as I love Capt. Kangaroo who has definitely been in his "pockets"
longer than Mr Rogers his "shoes", I think TV Guide was going for a tad
more recognizable face in kid TV.
Pamela-Marie
Nick Pedicini
How about Redd Foxx? Seems to me that all the success of a-american sitcoms
can be traced to that junkyard.
And for longevity, what about Harry Morgan..how many shows was he on?
December Bride, Dragnet, Mash.....
NJP
Pamela-Marie
"Nick Pedicini" <jny...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>bart simpson? before:
>
>dick clark?
>jack klugman and tony randall?
>ron howard?
>carl reiner and mel brooks?
Ron Howard is a movie guy.
Same for Carl and Mel
I'll go with you on Dick Clark though.
Pamela-Marie
Jamie Plummer
In article <58pqba$6...@news.istar.ca>, RFerrie <rfe...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>Ian J. Ball wrote:
><snip>
>> I agree. But Kermit has gotten the shaft not only from TV Guide, but also
>> from the Muppet people themselves! Is Kermit even still on "Sesame
>> Street"?! He was like their original Muppet!
>> <snip>
>
>Ian, my understanding is that Kermit was "retired" when Jim Henson died,
>as he was the ONE Muppet that nobody else felt they could do justice to -
>it was Henson's signature voice, etc. etc. He is no longer an "active"
>muppet out of respect, not insult. FWIW.
>
Your understanding is incorrect. Since Henson's death Kermit the Frog has
been on the Tonight Show, given commencement addresses, sat in for Larry King,
and co-starred on "Muppets Tonight."
Jamie Plummer jc...@virginia.edu
http://faraday.clas.virginia.edu/~jcp9j
MST3k returns in February 1997! On the Sci-Fi Channel!
"Show me a woman, I sometimes say, and I will show you someone who is
going to ignore my observations." -- Bertie Wooster
Martin Nathan
Here are some of my opinions:
Ed Sullivan should have been much higher than #50, probably at about
#8, where Michael Landon is. He should have been about #40, where
Patty Duke is, and she should be out of the top 50. I think Phil
Donahue should be neck and neck with Oprah, both of them are at the
top of the heap in the talk show field. I was glad to see Bart get
some recognition. Lawrence Welk deserved to be in the top 50 but not
higher than ES. I would have put Carson #1 and Lucy #2. Her shows
were great in their day, but seem to have lost some of their luster
over the years. Carson was able to put on a great show night after
night, live!
Martin Nathan
Nick Pedicini
Pamela-Marie <pamel...@juno.com> wrote in article
<58td77$f...@news2.snfc21.pacbell.net>...
> "Nick Pedicini" <jny...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> Ron Howard is a movie guy.
>
> Same for Carl and Mel
Well, Howard is not a movie "star." He's a director. His starring efforts
were all in television. Opie on the Andy Griffith show--some mid sixties
Henry Fonda show the name of which I've forgotten--and Happy Days. Carl and
Mel were both involved in television--Your Show of Shows, The Dick Van Dyke
Show, Get Smart--long before any movie careers.
Besides, Lucy--aka Technicolor Tessie--was a film star before she stepped
into television. Hope was a big film star and really just moved his
successful radio format into television.
NJP
Dave Mackey
RFerrie (rfe...@inforamp.net) wrote:
:
: Ian, my understanding is that Kermit was "retired" when Jim Henson died,
: it was Henson's signature voice, etc. etc. He is no longer an "active"
: muppet out of respect, not insult. FWIW.
My understanding is that Kermit is still being performed by Steve
Whitmire. He was recently on the Leno show, and Kermit's made tons of
appearances (including the film "A Muppet Christmas Carol") since Jim
Henson's death.
--
dma...@raven.cybercomm.net Dave Mackey
All Unsolicited E-Mail Of A Commercial Nature Is Ignored
http://www.cybercomm.net/~dmackey
JSTONE9352
I would put Lucy ahead of Carson. The reason being is that the old
Lucy shows hold up well in reruns but Carson's old shows are really
dated with the topical topics they cover and do not hold up as well.
John S.
Bill Groves
Pamela-Marie wrote:
>
> "Nick Pedicini" <jny...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >bart simpson? before:
> >
> >dick clark?
> >jack klugman and tony randall?
> >ron howard?
> >carl reiner and mel brooks?
>
>
And which theater did The Andy Griffith Show and Happy Days play at in
your town?
Bill Groves
Pamela-Marie wrote:
>
> >Someone else they omitted: ***Rod Serling***.
>
> Oh please! I would have just as quickly added Aaron Spelling! Goodness
> knows he's had the biggest impact on night time TV.
>
> Pamela-Marie
Except that Aaron Spelling doesn't host any of his shows on-camera, as
Serling did.
Christopher Siciliano
Ian J. Ball wrote:
>
> In article <58qig8$c...@news4.snfc21.pacbell.net>, Pamela-Marie
> <pamel...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) wrote:
> > >I only saw a couple of outrages. There was one inclusion that should *not*
> > >have been in there (Farrah Fawcet).
> > >
> > >But there were several *exclusions* that bugged me. One was Bob Denver who
> > >Gillis). In addition, I also though Buddy Ebsen should be in there for his
> > >two shows. Klugman's also a good point for his two shows (The Odd Couple,
> > >Quincy ME).
> >
> > This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
> > how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
>
> It should be more about *influence* than anything.
>
> of the 1980's, *and* he was in *the* groundbreaking show of the late 70's
> (created the nighttime soap genre), *and* he was in another very
> successful series of the 60's.
>
> Hagman, at least, should have been in there.
>
>
> Very short-lived fame. Not worthy of note.
>
>
> He was in the highest rated sitcom of the 1960's. I think you could make a
> good argument that he should have been included.
>
> > it hardly was the greatest show its time.
>
> It was *among* the greatest of its time though. But I agree that it's not
> so clear cut in this case.
>
Bravo, on the Rod Serling comment.
broom...@aol.com
In article <IJBall-1312960931440001@mac_rbk_3.chem.ucla.edu>,
IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) writes:
>> Farrah Fawcett is the most remembered "Angel"
>
>Very short-lived fame. Not worthy of note.
I would have to guess that the author of this note was not a teenage boy
when this show was on. All the hoop-la! and I think Angels was the start
of a huge genre that includes Babe Watch,etc.
Maybe not high-quality tv, but it surely influenced what's on tv.
Christopher Siciliano
I think you are penlizing Carson for the type of show he had and for
being on for 30 years. I can't really quarrel with which should be #1
or #2. I think only "I Love Lucy" was classic in her carrer, her other
two sitcoms were nothing close to the original. She got the nod for #1
because of owning and running a studio, and rightly so.
Chris
Clifford Blau
lore...@aol.com (LoreChick) wrote:
>In article <32AF1A...@pilot.msu.edu>, John Stone
><sto...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>
>>Let me guess, is Bart Simpson on the list? Most likely, after all
>>TV Guide is Fox. Ed O'Neil? please I hope not. John S.
>>
>
> Bart Simpson is number 48 on the list.
>
> Bart Simpson, but no Bill Shatner? I'm disappointed...
Why is Bart Simpson on the list? He is a character, not a star. Why
not have Captain Kirk or Mr. Spock then? I don't see anyone claiming
that Nancy Cartwright or June Foray should be on the list. This makes
the list inconsistent.
--------------
The opinions expressed in this post are mine, if you agree with them, and someone else's if you don't.
Pamela-Marie
John Stone <sto...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
>> >> Cheers to TV Guide for putting Lassie #11!
>> >> Would have liked to have seen Tony Randal or Jack Glugman on it though :-(
>> >have been in there (Farrah Fawcet).
>> >
>> >Klugman's also a good point for his two shows (The Odd Couple,Quincy >> >ME).
>>
>> This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
>> how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
>>
>Odd Couple was not the greatest show of its time but was Charlie's
>Angels the greatest of its time? And is Charlie's Angels really
>more "famous" than the Odd Couple?
Yes. Any cult classic is more "famous" than Odd Couple
>Farah Fawcett's selection just
>shows how shallow TV Guide can be.
Hey if the public is shallow than TV guide merely went for the public
choice.
>I would have put Buddy Ebsen on the list, not only was the Beverly
>Hillbillies one of my favorite shows, I also liked Davey Crockett
>on Disney which Ebsen starred as Crockett's (sp?) side kick.
Glad you enjoyed him. You are not the majority.
Pamela-Marie
Pamela-Marie
MNat...@ix.netcom.com (Martin Nathan) wrote:
>Here are some of my opinions:
>Ed Sullivan should have been much higher than #50, probably at about
>#8, where Michael Landon is. He should have been about #40, where
>Patty Duke is, and she should be out of the top 50. I think Phil
>Donahue should be neck and neck with Oprah, both of them are at the
>top of the heap in the talk show field. I was glad to see Bart get
>some recognition.
Wait a second, you are glad Bart Simpson got some recognition, but you
want Patty Duke removed? Just how old are you???
>Lawrence Welk deserved to be in the top 50 but not
>higher than ES.
Agreed!
>I would have put Carson #1 and Lucy #2. Her shows
>were great in their day, but seem to have lost some of their luster
>over the years.
Have you lost your mind? I love Lucy is still in syndication and every
other Lucy series is on Nick at Nite. She has hardly lost her luster.
>Carson was able to put on a great show night after
>night, live!
Lucy filmed her show live and did several shows all successfully and a
great deal longer than Carson. She has versatality, longervity, and public
adoration on her side. Sorry, she deserved the spot.
Pamela-Marie
Pamela-Marie
Bill Groves <tv...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Pamela-Marie wrote:
>>
>> "Nick Pedicini" <jny...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> >bart simpson? before:
>> >
>> >dick clark?
>> >jack klugman and tony randall?
>> >ron howard?
>> >carl reiner and mel brooks?
>>
>> Ron Howard is a movie guy.
>And which theater did The Andy Griffith Show and Happy Days play at in
>your town?
Who stared in those shows? Ron Howard is famous for his directing more
than his days as Opie.
Pamela-Marie
Ian J. Ball
In article <kelly.162...@voicenet.com>, ke...@voicenet.com (Kelly
Richmond) wrote:
> In article <IJBall-1212961000020001@mac_rbk_3.chem.ucla.edu>
IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) writes:
>
> >> Tom Selleck - A second rate actor at best, who comes up with these
> >> choices?
>
> >This is your opinion. But objectively, Selleck was in one of, if not *the*
> >defining drama seres of the 1980's. His inclusion was warrented.
>
> Magnum P.I. was the "defining" drama of the 1980s?
In the ratings... yes!
> Well, I guess I'll buy
> that if you mean that it took a mediocre show to define a pretty worthless
> decade.
Hardly. While "Magnum" had a lot of what I'd call "humdrum" episodes, it
did have several that were quite funny, and some that were *excellent*
drama.
I think Selleck was also included, though, for his popular stints as a
guest star on "Rockford Files" and "Friends".
> But Magnum was one of the least *significant* shows -- far
> overshadowned by Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, 30something and China
> Beach, to name just a few -- so Selleck's inclusion was a bad joke.
That's *your* opinion. Many people laud "Hill Street", "St. Elesehwere"
and "30something" (though I'm not among them, as I thought all were
overrated at the time), but in terms of popularity, "Magnum" blew them all
away.
And as for "China Beach", I always laugh when people point to that, when
IMO it was but the ugly step-sister to the *far* superior "Tour of Duty",
probably the best show of its era, and maybe the best drama of all time.
David L. Campbell
con...@bu.edu (thomas conroy) wrote:
>James C Carson (jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu) wrote:
>
>: For those who haven't seen the list in the upcoming week's TV Guide:
To save bandwidth, I'll only deal with the choices I think are wrong,
terribly wrong and obscenely wrong...
>: TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
>
>: 6. Oprah Winfrey
>overrated here, but classier than Jennie Jones et. al. but I'm not a big
>daytime talk show fan
#6? No way in the world if Phil Donahue is #42!
Oprah has capitalized on the fact that her competitors had to battle not
only her, but Phil, the father of the talkshow genre, and the established
newcomers to the market (most notably but not limited to Geraldo and Ricki
Lake) by presenting subjects more gossipy, sexy, or smutty then the ones
that ALL of them had been guilty of promoting previously. I don't know if
Oprah ever had strippers (male or female) on her show, but she HAS had
bigots, bigamists (in a famous case she failed to detect a guy who claimed
to be the husband of a female bigamist), people who claimed to be able to
go into a special dark room and talk to their dead relatives, and a
conversation with people who said that they were victims of child abuse
not in their childhood--but in their mothers' wombs.
Ms. Winfrey has stepped away, says she, from these "trashy" subjects, but
for her to pretend that she wasn't one of the builders of the talk show
Frankenstein that she is now credited with chasing with a torch is, at
best, deceptive.
Donahue was doing what she does now for nearly 20 years when she came on
the scene. I don't think she has in 10 years earned the mantle of #6 of
all time.
BTW, IMHO the greatest talk show of all time was 1995's Dennis Prager
Show. He was simply too good for TV.
>: 8. Michael Landon
>a bit too wholesome for my tastes, but a decent enough actor. Played a
>pretty good teenage werewolf, in fact, the DEFINITIVE teenage werewolf.
Ha Ha Ha. Hey, pal, he doesn't get credit for screen roles! And exactly
what does "too wholesome" mean? You would have liked for Little Joe to
shoot a guy over a saloon showgirl? You would have liked Charles Ingalls
to cop a little feel on Nellie Oleson? (Alison Arngrim, once you got her
out of those curls, was a BABE...I'm not kidding!) You'd have liked his
angel character to be a chain smoking party animal? Oops...sorry...I
ventured into Travolta's upcoming "angel" movie. No wholesomeness there.
Get in line now. James.
>: 12. Andy Griffith
>gets credit for what was really good ensemble acting on Mayberry
>RFD/The AGS; the other actors were really more interesting
Yeah. Like you would have watched the Floyd the Barber Show.
>
>: 13. George Burns and Gracie Allen
>a great comedy team and deserve to rank much higher. The Burns and Allen show was close to high conceptual comedy, at least in its best moments.
I agree, despite the shaky format of that show (George spying on Gracie
using a hidden camera).
>
>: 14. Milton Berle
>I wasn't born yet, but everything would shut down when Uncle Miltie was on each week, so I guess he has to be included in the top 50
Movie execs were scared silly of Berle, seeing him as anchor for a new
entertainment device that would cost them millions. It's a crime to rank
him that low.
>
>: 15. Walter Cronkite
Too low.
: 16. Dinah Shore
>my favorite Dinah Shore moment; Dinah's interview with Iggy Pop and David
>Bowie back in the late 1970. I wish I owned a VCR back then. But, for the
>most part, I fail to see what's so special about her. Could someone enlighten
>me?
Whatever people think is so hotsy-totsy about Rosie O' Donnell now, that's
what they thought of Dinah back in the 70's. Plus she had a previous
variety show that was immensely popular in the 60's, which was an
extension of earlier radio success.
>: 17. Bob Newhart
>a good choice with a unique style of humor. There's nothing quite like a late night rerun of The Bob Newhart Show. Inspired a drinking game, so there you go.
Exactly how old are you? Aren't you aware that Newhart was to the 60's
what Steve Martin was to the 70's and Robin Williams was to the 80's? That
Newhart was one of few to have hit shows in the 60's, 70's and 80s?
>
>: 19. Tom Selleck
>probably wouldn't have come close to making my top 50
Obscene, when you consider the next three:
>: 20. James Arness
Being the star of the longest-running drama in TV history doesn't beat
being the star of "Magnum, P.I."?
>: 21. Peter Falk
>: 22. Edward R. Murrow
>: 23. Miss Piggy
This is flat out the worst choice of the entire list. The Muppets need to
be represented on this list, but Miss Piggy is not the one! The Muppets
are responsible for the success of Sesame Street, going strong for
30+ years now (and assuredly getting a boost from the "Elmo" hysteria).
The Muppets are responsible for building PBS from its predecessor, NET
(National Educational Television). Yet whoever wrote the "Miss Piggy"
blurb only goes as far back as "The Muppet Show" to track the Muppets
success story. Even by that standard, Miss Piggy was NOT the star of that
show!
I could live with Big Bird in the Muppet slot that is deserved on this
list, but personally think that it belongs to Kermit the Frog, Jim
Henson's first creation. Whoever thought Miss Piggy should get it must
have been influenced by a good breakfast of bacon and eggs ( and I know
that Miss P. would give me a karate chop for saying that--I'd respond by
busting her chops...pun intended).
>: 25. Bob Hope
I guess half a century on TV doesn't count for much.
>: 28. Roseanne
Yeah, right. From "domestic goddess" and overnight success story to
mooning, tantrum-throwing, multiple-personalitied, allegedly former
hooker, ex-husband trashing, cosmetically-adjusted "everywoman". "Yeah,
her show shows life like it really is."
But then again, she can't be that bad an actress. Remember how she wanted
us all to believe Tom Arnold was a really talented guy? He'll be living
for years off people actually buying that.
>
>: 29. Sid Caesar
Too low.
>: 32. Rocky and Bullwinkle
>interesting choice. no compliants here.
I'm surprised they got this one right!
>: 34. Barbara Walters
>if you could be a twee, what kind of twee would you be? sorry, but I have a hard time taking her too seriously.
I think that she is overrated as a interviewer, but that she definitely
earned her place on the list. BTW, that "tree" question was in response to
Katherine Hepburn's unsolicited self-assessment as being tree-like.
>
>: 35. Fred Rogers
>he's still on the air, looking old and grey, but still visiting the Land of Make Believe.
Every time I hear about slimebag parents who think they sleep around
and/or do drugs under their kids' noses, I hope the kids at least watch
Mr. Rogers. He's corny as heck once you reach puberty, but in your
adulthood you recognize the value of guys like him. Too low.
>: 40. Patty Duke
>I mostly remember her accepting an award (an Oscar?) while completely
>wasted.
Huh? I think you have her confused with Rickie Lee Jones, or maybe Eddie
Vedder.
>
>: 41. Alan Alda
Too low!
>: 42. Phil Donahue
See Oprah, #6.
>
>: 43. Lawrence Welk
>seeing reruns of this on PBS is a delirous experience. Its so bad its
>entertaining (but in a way these geritol pitchmen could not have possibly
>imagined). Anyway, it takes an hour or so of some Buckweat Zydaco to hear
>the musicality of the accordian, arguably the musical instrument with the
>worst reputation.
Look, far be it from me to get in the way of your "I'll never, EVER
concede there was anything good about previous generations'
entertainment!" attitude, but I prefer to build a bridge to the 19th
century rather than burn it.
>: 44. Raymond Burr
>classy actor
Too low.
>: 47. Howard Cosell
>in spite of the occasional racist/reactionary blurting, one of the more
>insightful commentators
You owe Cosell an apology. Give one example of his racism.
>
>: 48. Bart Simpson
>certainly an icon
What are you (and TV Guide) smoking? A Simpson on the list and not Fred
Flintstone? May I remind you that the Simpsons haven't been a hit show
since Fox moved it from its comfort zone on Sunday, thinking that evil
(Bart) could win out over good (Cosby)?
>: 50. Ed Sullivan
>another icon
Waaaaaaay too low. Sullivan was the MTV of his time. The Beatles wouldn't
have gotten as far as they did sans Sullivan, among many.
DLC
David L. Campbell
>
>>Someone else they omitted: ***Rod Serling***.
>
>knows he's had the biggest impact on night time TV.
>
Spelling isn't a star, he's a writer-producer-nepotist (Come off it,
Aaron. Tori had no impressive body of work before getting her 90210 gig).
He's never had a regular role in front of the camera. as did Serling. He
planted the seed for the sci-fi/fantasy glut we've got on the air now, but
on top of that, "Twilight Zone" was a complete original and to many, has
yet to be surpassed.
DLC
Richard
Pamela-Marie <pamel...@juno.com> wrote:
>rgil...@netnet.net (Richard) wrote:
>>Where's Larry Hagman? His performance as J.R. Ewing in DALLAS was one
>>of the dominant icons of its era, plus he had a fine run on I DREAM OF
>>GENIE. Very few performers have excelled in both sitcoms and prime
>>time dramas.
>This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
>how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
>Pamela-Marie
At its peak DALLAS had an astounding 80% share in the ratings, and the
"Who Shot J.R." cliffhanger ending to the season was groundbreaking
for prime time television. Overall I think the TV Guide list
credible, but given the criteria you mention it's difficult to
understand the ommision of Larry Hagman from the list of 50 Greatest
Television Stars.
Richard
wal...@donovn.com
He was a mediocre actor and personality who was at the right place
at the right time. Sort of like Jay Leno. There are lots of people
on the list, that I wouldn't put there, but Hagman is not one of them.
k
Nicole Celeste
Well, if that list was about a star's impact and popularity, Larry
Hagman should have replaced Tom Selleck. Dallas was much bigger than
Magnum. Jeanie was pretty popular too.
If TV Guide did a list of most *significant* shows, I'm quite confident
Hill Street Blues (and maybe St. Elsewhere and thirtysomething but not
China Beach) would place higher than Magnum.
Nicole
azo...@ic3.ithaca.edu
On Sun, 15 Dec 1996, Otto Hack-Man Heuer wrote:
>
> Since so many people have asked for my opinion on TV Guide's 50
> Greatest TV stars of all time, I've decided to step back out of lurk
> mode after all these years. I wanted some thought to go into my
> comments, so I waited a week after the list came out.
>
> First I'll add comments on the placement of TVG's 50, then I'll add my
> own list to the bottom.
>
> : TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
>
> : 4. James Garner
>
> Who did he blow at TVG to get ranked in the top 50, much less #4?
He had 2 hit shows: the Rockford Files and Maverick. Both popular shows
of their genre
> : 6. Oprah Winfrey
>
> Sorry. One "National Enquirer" talk show host on the list is more
> than enough, and I'd give the nod to Donahue over Oprah.
Oprah isn't a National Enquirer talk show host. She takes a positive
attitude and remains in the top spot. She has lasted for a long time and
helped the talk show industry expand.
> : 8. Michael Landon
>
> See James Garner.
Like James Garner, he had several hit shows of different genres, Little
House on the Praire, Highway to Heave, and Bonanza.
> : 11. Lassie
>
> See James Garner.
Started the whole genre of shows about animals.
> : 13. George Burns and Gracie Allen
>
> There are quite a few "duos" listed as a single number. Burns
> probably belongs on the list, but I wouldn't include Allen.
I never saw Burns' and Allen's show, but I heard that George was the more
serious one and Gracie was the funny. It wasn't until after Allen died
that Burns did comedies like Oh God. If that's true than Allen deserves
to be on there as much as Burns
> : 20. James Arness
> : 21. Peter Falk
>
> I was never into the genre of the westerns or detective TV shows, so I
> wouldn't have ranked either of these in the top 100.
Well, than that's a better excuse for not including James Garner and
Michael Landon
> : 26. Farrah Fawcett
>
> Ummm... One year of a TV show and she makes #26? I drooled over her
> as much as the rest of the audience, but I wouldn't put her in the top
> 25.
I've never cared for Aaron Spellings' dramas, but they're very
successful. Fawcett was the first popular girl from his series, before
Tori Spelling and Heather Locklear
> : 28. Roseanne
>
> Excuse me? I'd rate her just below "The Blue Power Ranger" on the top
> 1000 list. She's only slightly less annoying than she was before she
> got the TV show.
I find her very funny and even if you don't like her, for several years,
she had a top ten hit. She successfully was able to take what was
allowed on TV to a new limit
> : 29. Sid Caesar
>
> Wouldn't have even thought of putting him on a top 100 list.
His show was the influence for just about every variety show and shows
like SNL.
> : 30. Jerry Seinfeld
>
> Another case of "good ensemble cast for a sitcom". I'm sure he ranks
> slightly higher than Bob Denver on the list of "lead character of a
> sitcom whose popularity is due to the strengths of the entire cast",
> but I'm not sure I'd put either of them in the top 50 greatest TV
> stars of all time. Same with the casts of WKRP and Cheers.
> : 39. Michael J. Fox
>
> Hasn't really had much impact on TV outside of the last couple years
> of Family Ties. He might be on my Top n Movie Stars, but I don't
> think he'd be on my top 50 TV stars list.
He was everyone's favorite part about Family Ties and then there's his
new show Spin City
> : 44. Raymond Burr
>
> See Peter Falk.
You're overlooking the popular genre of cops and lawyers. Perry Mason is
probably the most famous TV lawyer.
> ===== HACK-MAN'S LIST OF THE 50 GREATEST TV STARS OF ALL TIME =====
>
> Note that this list was compiled without reading any comments on
> Usenet--I just grabbed the list from someone else's article to avoid
> having to type them in out of TVG myself for the above list.
> 3. Ed O'Neill. Is Married With Children the longest running show
> currently on prime-time or just in the "comedy" category? In any
> case, Ed deserves a lot of credit for the work he's put in on the show
> over all these years.
I don't like MWC, but it does deserve some credit since its longlasting.
You should realize the same about Roseanne. Also number 3 is too high
for him.
> 33. Jason Alexander. Both for George Costanza and the voice of
> DuckMan.
Maybe I'm the only one here, but I don't care for Duckman.
> 36. Johnny Carson. An idiot, but still an icon.
How is Carson an idiot? He's a great interviewer. IMO, neither Leno nor
Letterman have lived up to him.
> 38. Larry Hagman. Mostly for I Dream of Jeannie, not Dallas.
Dallas started the whole genre of nighttime soaps in the '80s.
> 44. Connie Chung.
What's she done since she got fired from CBS?
Aaron
Pamela-Marie
heue...@gold.tc.umn.edu (Otto "Hack-Man" Heuer) wrote:
>
>Since so many people have asked for my opinion on TV Guide's 50
>Greatest TV stars of all time, I've decided to step back out of lurk
>mode after all these years. I wanted some thought to go into my
>comments, so I waited a week after the list came out.
>
>First I'll add comments on the placement of TVG's 50, then I'll add my
>own list to the bottom.
Hack-Man, you sound like an arrogant generation x-er who doesn't
appreciate the TV of the times.
>: TV Guide's 50 Greatest TV Stars of All Time:
>: 26. Farrah Fawcett
>
>Ummm... One year of a TV show and she makes #26? I drooled over her
>as much as the rest of the audience, but I wouldn't put her in the top
>25.
Idiot, she isn't in the top 25, she is 26!
>===== HACK-MAN'S LIST OF THE 50 GREATEST TV STARS OF ALL TIME =====
>3. Ed O'Neill. Is Married With Children the longest running show
>currently on prime-time or just in the "comedy" category? In any
>case, Ed deserves a lot of credit for the work he's put in on the show
>over all these years.
He deserves for endurance?! What ever happened to be an influence, a good
actor, oh and yeah famous? Please.
>15. John Belushi. He and Dan and Chevy *made* SNL.
You really want to put a man on the list who is remebered for the awful TV
biography movie that was made on him?
>20. Bart Simpson. If the show hadn't lasted for this many years and
>sold so much merchandize, I wouldn't have put Bart on the list--but
>the show has obviously had an impact, and Bart seems to be the main
>character.
You are a FOX junkie! No wonder you don't appreciate past quality TV
>26. The actor who played Beaver Cleaver.
Maybe Beaver Cleaver, but not Jerry, Beaver is an icon, not the actor.
>32. Robot. From Lost In Space.
Pleease!
>35. Tom Wopat, John Schneider, and Cathy Bach. Hell, "The Dukes of
>Hazzard" was at the top of the ratings for something like ten years.
>How many shows since then can say that? MASH? Cheers? That's about
>it.
Ah yes, the most un-politically correct show in history!Not to mention
none of these people have done anything worth since.
>37. Lucille Ball. I never found her funny, but she had an impact on
>the industry.
Definitely a FOX fan
>39. Howard Hessman? (the guy who played Johnny Fever on WKRP)
Oh goodness! Why not Loni Anderson?!
>40. George Wendt.
Why?
>41. Kelsey Grammer. He's been on two successful TV shows. Why not?
A better question is why?
>45. Lorne Greene. For Battlestar Galactica--not the Western he was
>on.
Give me a break!
>48. Loni Anderson. Hell... I'm running out of names and refused to
>put Farrah Fawcett on for the one season she did. :-)
I spoke too soon!
>I know a lot of my choices will evoke "what the hell are you smoking?"
>responses.
Well, what are you smoking?
Pamela-Marie
Annie Keitz
Pamela-Marie <pamel...@juno.com> wrote:
>John Stone <sto...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
>>Pamela-Marie wrote:
>>> IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) wrote:
>>> >In article <58nne0$p...@news2.his.com>, ke...@his.com wrote:
>>> >> Cheers to TV Guide for putting Lassie #11!
>>> >> Would have liked to have seen Tony Randal or Jack Glugman on it though :-(
>>> >I only saw a couple of outrages. There was one inclusion that should *not*
>>> >have been in there (Farrah Fawcet).
>>> >
>>> >But there were several *exclusions* that bugged me. In addition, I >> >also though Buddy Ebsen should be in there for his two shows.
>>> >Klugman's also a good point for his two shows (The Odd Couple,Quincy >> >ME).
>>>
>>> how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
>>>
>>> Buddy Ebsen is definitely not on my list and as good as the Odd Couple >>was it hardly was the greatest show its time.
>>Odd Couple was not the greatest show of its time but was Charlie's
>>Angels the greatest of its time? And is Charlie's Angels really
>>more "famous" than the Odd Couple?
>Yes. Any cult classic is more "famous" than Odd Couple
Oh pooh, we always considered the Odd Couple to have cult status, I
guess it was a local thing, it ran in reruns on channel 5 here in
Washington, DC for years.
Annandale, VA Viewers for Quality Television
ke...@his.com http://www.vqt.org
Annie Keitz
"David L. Campbell" <king...@hooked.net> wrote:
>>: 47. Howard Cosell
>>in spite of the occasional racist/reactionary blurting, one of the more
>>insightful commentators
>You owe Cosell an apology. Give one example of his racism.
Unfortunately it's true. While I feel there was much to admire about
the man, he did make a huge gaffe on Monday Night Football in the
1980's, saying Washington Redskin Art Monk, "ran like a little
monkey".
Virgilio 'Dean' B. Velasco Jr.
Bart Simpson was ground-breaking in his own way, but I think
that Bugs Bunny is more deserving of that honor.
--
Virgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr, Department of Electrical Eng'g and Applied Physics
graduate student slave, roboticist-in-training and Q wannabe
http://dora.eeap.cwru.edu/vbv/vbv.html | Remember: Wise men still seek Christ.
"And I shall shed my light over dark evil, for darkness cannot stand the light."
Christopher Siciliano
Rod Serling did not just do TZ, don't forget his three emmys in a row
for writing "Requiem for a Heavyweight" "Patters" and The Comedians"
ANIM8Rfsk
((> : 4. James Garner
>
> Who did he blow at TVG to get ranked in the top 50, much less #4?
He had 2 hit shows: the Rockford Files and Maverick. Both popular shows
of their genre))
TV Guide probably also considered all those Polaroid ads he did.
What about Jack Benny? Not to mention Steve Allen.
And SOMEBODY (or something) from Star Trek; especially given TV Guide
features the show like once a month!
Ian J. Ball
In article <596gi4$9...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>, v...@giskard.cwru.edu
("Virgilio 'Dean' B. Velasco Jr.") wrote:
> Bart Simpson was ground-breaking in his own way, but I think
> that Bugs Bunny is more deserving of that honor.
The justification for excluding Bugs (which I think is justified) is that
Bugs was a movie star *first*. Otherwise, you could argue that Jimmy
Stewart or Judy Garland should have been in the list for their famous
movies getting repeated on TV (endlessly).
Denise Perry
In article <58q1ls$1...@news.spies.com> mat...@vax.area.com (Matt Ackeret) writes:
>From: mat...@vax.area.com (Matt Ackeret)
>Subject: Re: These stars should not have made TV Guide's top 50 list
>Date: 12 Dec 1996 22:41:00 GMT
>In article <58pqba$6...@news.istar.ca>, RFerrie <rfe...@inforamp.net> wrote:
>>Ian J. Ball wrote:
>><snip>
>>> I agree. But Kermit has gotten the shaft not only from TV Guide, but also
>>> from the Muppet people themselves! Is Kermit even still on "Sesame
>>> Street"?! He was like their original Muppet!
>>Ian, my understanding is that Kermit was "retired" when Jim Henson died,
>>as he was the ONE Muppet that nobody else felt they could do justice to -
>>it was Henson's signature voice, etc. etc. He is no longer an "active"
>>muppet out of respect, not insult. FWIW.
>Nope that's not true. Kermit continues to be done. For example, he's
>on "Muppets Tonight" (whenever ABC deigns us and shows it).
>You may be thinking about Ernie.
>--
>mat...@apple.com
Kermit was also in Muppet Treasure Island. I think they wanted to retire
Kermit to honor Henson, but you just can't have the Muppets without him!
Denise Perry WILL Radio
Internet: dpe...@uiuc.edu 810 S. Wright St. Rm 228
Phone: (217) 333-0850 Urbana, IL 61801
"We're public broadcasting; we put the 'fun' in dysfunctional!"
- PBS President Ervin Duggan
Denise Perry
In article <58tcad$f...@news2.snfc21.pacbell.net> Pamela-Marie <pamel...@juno.com> writes:
>From: Pamela-Marie <pamel...@juno.com>
>Subject: Re: These stars should not have made TV Guide's top 50 list
>ja...@pacbell.net (Jay Smith) wrote:
>>
>>A top 50 TV list and no mention of Ernie Kovacs?
>Who? :)
>Pamela-Marie
Kill me now. I must REALLY be old! You've got to be kidding -- you have NO
idea what Ernie Kovacs meant to TV? He died too soon.
Bill Groves
David L. Campbell wrote:
>
> con...@bu.edu (thomas conroy) wrote:
> >James C Carson (jca...@hubcap.clemson.edu) wrote:
> >
> >: For those who haven't seen the list in the upcoming week's TV Guide:
>
> To save bandwidth, I'll only deal with the choices I think are wrong,
> terribly wrong and obscenely wrong...
>
> >: 17. Bob Newhart
> >a good choice with a unique style of humor. There's nothing quite like a late night rerun of The Bob Newhart Show. Inspired a drinking game, so there you go.
>
> Exactly how old are you? Aren't you aware that Newhart was to the 60's
> what Steve Martin was to the 70's and Robin Williams was to the 80's? That
> Newhart was one of few to have hit shows in the 60's, 70's and 80s?
> DLC
Correction: Newhart's early-60s variety series wasn't a hit. It only
lasted one season. Also, to single him out above probably a dozen or so
hot stand-up comics of the 60s is overstating the point. Newhart's
great, but in the 60s, he wasn't ever the leader of any pack. Your
assessment of "hit shows in the 60s, 70s and 80s" comes closer to
suiting Bill Cosby (I Spy, The Bill Cosby Show [which went two seasons;
not a long time, but twice that of Newhart's first series], and Cosby).
Pamela-Marie
anim...@aol.com (ANIM8Rfsk) wrote:
>And SOMEBODY (or something) from Star Trek; especially given TV Guide
>features the show like once a month!
Well that could be anyone, they could have picked Gene Roddenberry or his
wife who has made an guest spot on all series and movies, or William
Shatner (though I wouldn't choose him) or Brent Spiner, or...
Pamela-Marie
Pamela-Marie
>>>in spite of the occasional racist/reactionary blurting, one of the more
>>>insightful commentators
>
>>You owe Cosell an apology. Give one example of his racism.
>
>the man, he did make a huge gaffe on Monday Night Football in the
>1980's, saying Washington Redskin Art Monk, "ran like a little
>monkey".
That was racist because?
Pamela-Marie
Chris Eilers
In <19961215004...@ladder01.news.aol.com> broom...@aol.com
writes:
>
>In article <IJBall-1312960931440001@mac_rbk_3.chem.ucla.edu>,
>>
>
>I would have to guess that the author of this note was not a teenage
boy
>when this show was on. All the hoop-la! and I think Angels was the
start
>of a huge genre that includes Babe Watch,etc.
>
>Maybe not high-quality tv, but it surely influenced what's on tv.
Granted, I was but a wee babe when the show was in it's height, but I
always liked Cheryl Ladd and Jaqueline Smith (ouch! mad spelling
error!) best
Anthony Dean
Ian J. Ball (IJB...@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <596gi4$9...@alexander.INS.CWRU.Edu>, v...@giskard.cwru.edu
: ("Virgilio 'Dean' B. Velasco Jr.") wrote:
: > Bart Simpson was ground-breaking in his own way, but I think
: > that Bugs Bunny is more deserving of that honor.
: The justification for excluding Bugs (which I think is justified) is that
: Bugs was a movie star *first*. Otherwise, you could argue that Jimmy
: Stewart or Judy Garland should have been in the list for their famous
: movies getting repeated on TV (endlessly).
Actually, I was sort of wondering if Fred Flintstone should be on this list,
given the Flintstones' longevity.
Although the thought of *Lassie* making 11th place, ahead of, among other
people, Edward R. Murrow, might give some clue to their decision-making
process...
Anthony
--
ad...@expert.cc.purdue.edu
http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~adean/ My home page
http://expert.cc.purdue.edu/~adean/maggie.html The Maggie Simpson page
"Do not hug me." -----Worf, Star Trek:DS9
"Yes, Virginia, there *is* a Santa Claus...and he kicks butt!!"
------Earthworm Jim
John Stone
The top 50 list was not thought out well by TV guide. To me it had
a "thrown together at the last minute" feel to it and it showed in
some of their selections. John S.
ANIM8Rfsk
((The top 50 list was not thought out well by TV guide. To me it had
a "thrown together at the last minute" feel to it and it showed in
Agreed. And please; no CAPTAIN KANGAROO!?!?!?!?!
Thomas C. Allard
Been following this thread for a while and I haven't seen ANYONE mention
Steve Allen (forgive me if I missed any). After all, he really created
the late-night talk show format as we know it today. Carson deserves
his spot at #2 just for endurance and quality, but Steve Allen was the
real innovator here. Nearly all of Johnny's skits were lifted directly
from Steve.
Not to mention, among others (source: http://us.imdb.com/):
"Songs for Sale" (1950) TV Series .... Host
"I've Got a Secret" (1952) TV Series .... Moderator (1964-1967)
"Talent Patrol" (1953) TV Series .... Host
"Steve Allen Show, The" (1956) TV Series .... Host
"Steve Allen Comedy Hour, The" (1967) TV Series .... Host
"Meeting of Minds" (1977) TV Series
"Steve Allen Comedy Hour, The" (1980) TV Series .... Host
"Start of Something Big, The" (1985) TV Series .... Host
"Life's Most Embarrassing Moments" (1985) TV Series .... Host
Certainly he's done more for Television than Farah Fawcett, whose
televison series credits include "Charlie's Angels" (which she didn't
even stick with through the end of the series) and "Good Sports" (which
I'd never heard of until looking her up on imdb) plus a gazillion
made-for-TV-movies, with only "The Burning Bed" being memorable at all.
--
rgds-- TA (tal...@frb.gov)
I don't speak for the Federal Reserve Board, it doesn't speak for me.
DO NOT SEND UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL EMAIL
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r...@netvision.net.il
In article <walker-1312...@129.59.196.38>,
wal...@Donovn.com wrote:
>
> In article <19961213054...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, jr...@aol.com
> (JRE26) wrote:
>
> > Hello? We're overlooking the obvious here!!!!!
> >
> > Larry Hagman, aka J.R. Ewing, holder of the second most watched television
> > show in the history of television. He also helped make cliffhangers a
> > staple in our television landscape. Serialized programs in prime time owe
> > their existence to the success of Dallas.
> >
> > Need I say more?
> > (someone please post an email address for TV Guide, I want to set them
> > straight!!!)
>
> A mediocre actor, so so personality, who got lucky with a single hit.
>
>
Let's count together: I dream of Jeannie, Dallas.... I count at least 2 that i
know of. Maybe I don't know how to count???????
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
thomas conroy
: >>in spite of the occasional racist/reactionary blurting, one of the more
: >>insightful commentators
: >You owe Cosell an apology. Give one example of his racism.
: Unfortunately it's true. While I feel there was much to admire about
: the man, he did make a huge gaffe on Monday Night Football in the
: 1980's, saying Washington Redskin Art Monk, "ran like a little
: monkey".
Not only that, but during the World Series (`77 or `78, I forgot which), ABC
happened to have shown an arial shot of some burning buildings in the South
Bronx (which is where the Yankees, who were then playing, are
located). Without even attempting to provide any sort of context (of an
historical or sociological sort), Cosell instead shot off at the mouth
with a derogatory comment, along the lines of how `typical' of the local
residents to go around setting their own neighborhood; Cosell didn't go so
far as to call them savages, but he came awfully close. He probably shut
have kept his big yap shut in this instance, though I'm sure that would have
been hard for him, given that he was the type of individual who has to have
an opinion on anything and everything. Anyway, this was a CLASSIC
example of blaming the victim.
So, I'm certainly not apologizing to Cosell.
Bill Groves
Pamela-Marie wrote:
>
> Bill Groves <tv...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >> Exactly how old are you? Aren't you aware that Newhart was to the 60's
> >> what Steve Martin was to the 70's and Robin Williams was to the 80's?
> >> That Newhart was one of few to have hit shows in the 60's,70's and 80s?
>
> >lasted one season. Also, to single him out above probably a dozen or so
> >hot stand-up comics of the 60s is overstating the point.
>
> was a great stand up comic and is still sold-out quite often.
Look, I'm not trying to jump up and down on you with golf shoes or
anything, but it appears to me as though you're too young to remember
the 60s; otherwise, you wouldn't have dismissed Ron Howard as "a movie
guy" and disqualified him from the list (mind you, I wouldn't have
ranked him in the top 50 either, but there's no way more people think of
him more as a director than as Opie or Richie, for the simple reason
that people who pay attention to directors are in the minority of people
who watch movies and TV overall). I'll say it again, Newhart is -- and
was in the 60s -- a great stand-up comic, but there are probably at
least a half dozen comics that were equally popular, including Cosby.
>
> >Newhart's
> >great, but in the 60s, he wasn't ever the leader of any pack.
>
> Neither was Steve Martin. Sorry, but it's true.
>
Again, I have to disagree. Standup wasn't as big in the 70s (due
probably to the decline of the variety show format) as in the 60s, so
despite what you think, Steve Martin was more of a phenomenon (also due
to his popularity with a younger audience, as opposed to Newhart's more
adult following).
> >Your
> >assessment of "hit shows in the 60s, 70s and 80s" comes closer to
> >suiting Bill Cosby (I Spy, The Bill Cosby Show [which went two seasons;
> >not a long time, but twice that of Newhart's first series], and Cosby).
>
> Actually you are skipping Fat Albert and The Cosby Show, see he's done
> more.
>
I'm aware of that, plus his stint on The Electric Company and the
short-lived Cos. I was referring only to prime time hit series to make
my point.
> But both of Newhart's sitcoms lasted nearly entire decades. Cosby can't
> say that.
>
> Pamela-Marie
Well, if you want to call 6 years (The Bob Newhart Show) "nearly an
entire decade," be my guest, but please tell me you're not an
accountant.
Pamela-Marie
Bill Groves <tv...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>David L. Campbell wrote:
>>
>> con...@bu.edu (thomas conroy) wrote:
>> To save bandwidth, I'll only deal with the choices I think are wrong,
>> terribly wrong and obscenely wrong...
>> >: 17. Bob Newhart
>> >a good choice with a unique style of humor. There's nothing quite like a late night rerun of The Bob Newhart Show. Inspired a dr=
inking game, so there you go.
>>
>> Exactly how old are you? Aren't you aware that Newhart was to the 60's
>> what Steve Martin was to the 70's and Robin Williams was to the 80's?
>> That Newhart was one of few to have hit shows in the 60's,70's and 80s?
>Correction: Newhart's early-60s variety series wasn't a hit. It only
>lasted one season. Also, to single him out above probably a dozen or so
>hot stand-up comics of the 60s is overstating the point.
No actually, Newhart was probably a lot more popular than you realize. He
was a great stand up comic and is still sold-out quite often.
>Newhart's
>great, but in the 60s, he wasn't ever the leader of any pack.
Neither was Steve Martin. Sorry, but it's true.
>Your
>assessment of "hit shows in the 60s, 70s and 80s" comes closer to
>suiting Bill Cosby (I Spy, The Bill Cosby Show [which went two seasons;
>not a long time, but twice that of Newhart's first series], and Cosby).
Actually you are skipping Fat Albert and The Cosby Show, see he's done
more.
But both of Newhart's sitcoms lasted nearly entire decades. Cosby can't
say that.
Pamela-Marie
Pamela-Marie
Some people will read meanings into anything!
Pamela-Marie
Pamela-Marie
What's your problem with the Captain!?
Pamela-Marie
wri...@sabu.ebay.sun.com
I cannot believe that Jack Benny was not included, especially
when the list includes Rocky & Bullwinkle, Lassie, Julia Child,
Bart Simpson, Phil Silvers, Miss Piggy, Ricky Nelson, etc.
He is the only really great comic not included. Ridiculous!
Sabu
thomas conroy
: >Anyway, this was a CLASSIC example of blaming the victim.
: >So, I'm certainly not apologizing to Cosell.
: Some people will read meanings into anything!
Look, you can defend Cosell all you want. I simply don't care! If you would
only bother to go back to what I originally said, I commented that he was one
of the more insightful commentator in spite of the occasional racist
comment. This simple little statement was then read as an outrage against
Cosell's memory, and evidence was asked for. I and another poster then
provided evidence. His comments were publicly made, on the air, and are
available for the public record.
Anyway, why should it be so probablematic to figure that Cosell had a bit of
racism in him. America is a racist society after all (as are other
societies). In New York, which is were Cosell was from, blacks and Jews had a
particulartly complex, occasionally problematic relationship (as in such
instances as the Crown Heights riots, or in instances of black support for
Louis Farrakhan, or in instances of Jewish support for extremists like
Dov Hivkind). When you think about it, Cosell's positioning - as a
non-atheletic white intellectual participant in the non-intellectual world
of sports, particularly sports like football and boxing, inevitably would
have led to a certain degree of condescension; Cosell was, after all, standing
apart and commenting upon this world, from a degree of (ironic) distance; but
the fact that he was also offering himself up as a moral commentator was fuel
for his condension. This need not have been explicitly racist, but there was
a racist subtext, for sure.
John Stone
I've always admired Cosell for his "tell it like it is" commentary and
his sticking it to the sports establishment from time to time.
I don't believe Cosell was a racist, he stuck up for Muhammah Ali when
no other sports commentator would. He started calling him Ali right
away after he changed his name from Cassius Clay because he felt it
was the right thing to do. The comment about Alvin Garret (sp?) the
Washington Redskins player who was called "a little monkey" (I think the
exact quote was "look at that little monkey run" was
unfortunant (sp?) but I think it was said in the excitement of the
moment and was not intended to be racist. I think if it was anyone
but Cosell that had made that statement there would not have been a
big deal made about it. I think on the other had the comment made
by the late Jimmy the Greek was certainly in poor taste and could be
considered racist. John S.
Pamela-Marie
con...@bu.edu (thomas conroy) wrote:
>Pamela-Marie (pamel...@juno.com) wrote:
>: con...@bu.edu (thomas conroy) wrote:
>
>: >Anyway, this was a CLASSIC example of blaming the victim.
>
>: >So, I'm certainly not apologizing to Cosell.
>
>: Some people will read meanings into anything!
>This need not have been explicitly racist, but there was
>a racist subtext, for sure.
What makes you so sure? And even if there is a racial subtext how do you
know that Cosell meant it that way? You may or not be right when you say
America is racist, but you are proof America is prejudice.
BTW, who said I was from America?
Pamela-Marie
wal...@donovn.com
> > >
> > > Larry Hagman, aka J.R. Ewing, holder of the second most watched television
> > > show in the history of television. He also helped make cliffhangers a
> > > staple in our television landscape. Serialized programs in prime time owe
> > > their existence to the success of Dallas.
> > >
> > > Need I say more?
> > > (someone please post an email address for TV Guide, I want to set them
> > > straight!!!)
> >
> > A mediocre actor, so so personality, who got lucky with a single hit.
> >
> >
> Let's count together: I dream of Jeannie, Dallas.... I count at least 2
that i
> know of. Maybe I don't know how to count???????
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Yeah forgot that one -- a mediocre actor, so so personality who got
lucky with one totally forgettable role and another in a hot show.
k
Pamela-Marie
Bill Groves <tv...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Look, I'm not trying to jump up and down on you with golf shoes or
>anything, but it appears to me as though you're too young to remember
>the 60s; otherwise, you wouldn't have dismissed Ron Howard as "a movie
>guy" and disqualified him from the list (mind you, I wouldn't have
>ranked him in the top 50 either, but there's no way more people think of
>him more as a director than as Opie or Richie, for the simple reason
>that people who pay attention to directors are in the minority of people
>who watch movies and TV overall).
I was not trying to dismiss him or say he is remembered for his acting, my
point was he was more reveered as a director than an actor.
>> >Newhart's
>> >great, but in the 60s, he wasn't ever the leader of any pack.
>>
>> Neither was Steve Martin. Sorry, but it's true.
>Again, I have to disagree. Standup wasn't as big in the 70s (due
>probably to the decline of the variety show format) as in the 60s, so
>despite what you think, Steve Martin was more of a phenomenon (also due
>to his popularity with a younger audience, as opposed to Newhart's more
>adult following).
That doesn't make him the leader of the pack, it makes him the idiot of
the brat pack (can you tell I hated Martin's stand-up?)
>> >Your assessment of "hit shows in the 60s, 70s and 80s" comes closer to
>> >suiting Bill Cosby (I Spy, The Bill Cosby Show [which went two
>> >seasons; not a long time, but twice that of Newhart's first series],>> >and Cosby).
>> Actually you are skipping Fat Albert and The Cosby Show, see he's done
>> more.
>>
>I'm aware of that, I was referring only to prime time hit series to make
>my point.
Um ... The Cosby Show was a prime time hit.
>> But both of Newhart's sitcoms lasted nearly entire decades. Cosby can't
>> say that.
>Well, if you want to call 6 years (The Bob Newhart Show) "nearly an
>entire decade," be my guest, but please tell me you're not an
>accountant.
I accidentally put the word "both" instead of combined. I can add, and no,
I'm not an accountant!
Pamela-Marie
crknotts
Pamela-Marie wrote:
>
> John Stone <sto...@pilot.msu.edu> wrote:
> >Pamela-Marie wrote:
> >> IJB...@aol.com (Ian J. Ball) wrote:
> >> >In article <58nne0$p...@news2.his.com>, ke...@his.com wrote:
> >> >> Cheers to TV Guide for putting Lassie #11!
> >> >> Would have liked to have seen Tony Randal or Jack Glugman on it though :-(
> >> >I only saw a couple of outrages. There was one inclusion that should *not*
> >> >have been in there (Farrah Fawcet).
> >> >
> >> >But there were several *exclusions* that bugged me. In addition, I
>> >also though Buddy Ebsen should be in there for his two shows.
> >> >Klugman's also a good point for his two shows (The Odd Couple,Quincy >> >ME).
> >>
> >> This is not necessarily about how many shows a person does, it is about
> >> how much famous there show was or what groundbreakers they achieved.
> >> Farrah Fawcett is the most remembered "Angel"
> >>
>
> >Odd Couple was not the greatest show of its time but was Charlie's
> >Angels the greatest of its time? And is Charlie's Angels really
> >more "famous" than the Odd Couple?
>
> Yes. Any cult classic is more "famous" than Odd Couple
>
> >Farah Fawcett's selection just
> >shows how shallow TV Guide can be.
>
> Hey if the public is shallow than TV guide merely went for the public
> choice.
>
> >I would have put Buddy Ebsen on the list, not only was the Beverly
> >Hillbillies one of my favorite shows, I also liked Davey Crockett
> >on Disney which Ebsen starred as Crockett's (sp?) side kick.
>
> Glad you enjoyed him. You are not the majority.
>
> Pamela-MarieBeverley hillibilies was one of the highest rated shows in history, plus
shows like barnaby jones, the problem with the TV guide selections were
they (like many things in entertainment) were too influenced by the likes
and dislikes of the Baby Boomers.
thomas conroy
Pamela-Marie (pamel...@juno.com) wrote:
: What makes you so sure? And even if there is a racial subtext how do you
: America is racist, but you are proof America is prejudice.
I'm not sure what you mean by your last line here. Could you clarify it?
I don't know what Cosell "meant" but I know enough about what he said and I
know enough about the context in which he said it. And by the way, I did not,
initially, say that Cosell the man was racist; he may or may not have
been. What I said was that some of the things he said, from time to time, were
racist. There's a bit of a difference in this. While racists presumably use
racist language (especially, as in the recent Texaco case, when they think
that no one is listening), its possible that some racists self-monitor and
keep their racist comments to themselves. Also, the use of a racist expression
or comment may not necessarily be intended as racist; it could be intended as
a clumsy attempt to generalize or to tell a joke (or perhaps to quote, as, for
instance, when Quentin Tarantino uses the term "nigger" in his dialogue; I
don't believe that Tarentino is a racist, considering the context in which he
uses such terms, not to mention the way he depicts members of his own race).
Getting back to Cosell, I can only read his comments in context, which was, as
I said, one of intellectual superiority over the realm in which he,
detachedly, offered commentary. Given the implicit moral authority in his
relationship to his audience, via his claim to "tell it like it is," the
nastiness of his comments about the burning of the South Bronx, let alone the
audacity of his being in a position to comment (as well as ABC Sports position
of reinforcing racist stereotypes) simply must be challenged. I'm not saying
that the South Bronx wasn't burning, or that there wasn't a story there, but I
am saying that the way the story was told matters; Howard Cosell, from his
position of priveledged detachment, helped to tell a story which reinforced
his audience's recoiling in fear and horror, a story which was part of a
bigger story of escalating racial (and social class) tension. For a smart guy,
Cosell should have known better.
Bill Groves
Pamela-Marie wrote:
>
> Um ... The Cosby Show was a prime time hit.
>
>
> Pamela-Marie
I didn't realize I had omitted that originally. At the time, I may have
not typed it in because I assumed that The Cosby Show, being the most
recent and long-lived of his series, went without saying, especially
since the point I was addressing was three hit shows in as many
decades. More likely I meant to type it and just screwed up.