Stacey Abrams: Fetal Heartbeats Are a Conspiracy; They Don't Exist

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BTR1701

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Sep 22, 2022, 7:27:02 PM (3 days ago) Sep 22
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Notorious election-denier Stacey Abrams is now pushing a theory that
ultrasound machines, used in hospitals now all over the world, were designed
by a cabal of men to manufacture a fake heartbeat sound on purpose in order to
convince women to keep unwanted pregnancies.

This is beyond QAnon shit but the media won't say a word about it.


https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1572741568234225667/vid/480x270/WfE_ptcfCE8oEbV9.mp4?tag=14



Rhino

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Sep 22, 2022, 8:42:47 PM (3 days ago) Sep 22
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I wonder when she thinks the baby's heart starts beating? Only after
it's born? Around the 12th birthday? Or are hearts just something some
man made up to oppress women in some way?

--
Rhino

suzeeq

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Sep 22, 2022, 9:00:24 PM (3 days ago) Sep 22
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According to obstetrics experts, it's about the 12th week.

shawn

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Sep 23, 2022, 12:39:33 AM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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Because that misses her point that the experts say there is no
heartbeat at six weeks old. I don't know what her comments are about
but one possibility is that some machines do interpret the electrical
signals that are expected at that stage of development as a heartbeat.
I would have to hear more from her on why she made that particular
statement to have an opinion. On the idea that there is no fetal
heartbeat at six weeks the science seems settled.

Adam H. Kerman

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Sep 23, 2022, 1:06:14 AM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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shawn <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 23:26:52 +0000, BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:

>>Notorious election-denier Stacey Abrams is now pushing a theory that
>>ultrasound machines, used in hospitals now all over the world, were designed
>>by a cabal of men to manufacture a fake heartbeat sound on purpose in order to
>>convince women to keep unwanted pregnancies.

>>This is beyond QAnon shit but the media won't say a word about it.

>>https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1572741568234225667/vid/480x270/WfE_ptcfCE8oEbV9.mp4?tag=14

>Because that misses her point that the experts say there is no
>heartbeat at six weeks old.

This Web page says that cells that will form the heart begin to cluster
and pulse during week 5 and there may be a detectable heartbeat with an
ultrasound at week 6 or so. It's done in part to confirm estimated due
date. There may not be a DETECTABLE heartbeat simply due to the position
of the foetus.

https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/fetal-development/fetal-heart-heartbeat-circulatory-system/

What expert are you quoting from that says that the heart isn't yet
developed enough by week 6 to beat?

Ubiquitous

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Sep 23, 2022, 3:30:47 AM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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Did Stacy Abrams consult "Doctor" Jill Biden on this matter?

--
Let's go Brandon!

trotsky

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Sep 23, 2022, 5:51:16 AM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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Correct, the media won't say a word about it because it's horseshit. A
couple of things, clearly she was using the word "manufactured" as a
synonym of "contrived". But then I have a strong understanding of the
language and you're so fucking stupid as to say it's literally possible
to drive off cliffs. On top of that, it's a known fact that you have
testicles and thus posted a 12 second clip because you're too scared
shitless to show the context. But you be you and tell us about how the
Oath Keepers think "this is beyond QAnon shit." Can't you just show us
the original email you got for the laughs?

Oh, and QAnon are right wing assholes just like yourself. Too bad too sad.


trotsky

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Sep 23, 2022, 6:13:51 AM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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But isn't according to the obstreperous assholes.

NoBody

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Sep 23, 2022, 7:07:46 AM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 23:26:52 +0000, BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:

This is from the intellectually challenged lady who never conceded her
election.

NoBody

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Sep 23, 2022, 7:10:29 AM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
Incorrect.

"The heart of an embryo starts to beat from around 5–6 weeks of
pregnancy. Also, it may be possible to see the first visible sign of
the embryo, known as the fetal pole, at this stage."

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/when-does-a-fetus-have-a-heartbeat#timeline

Ignore their attempt to try to change terminology.

Ubiquitous

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Sep 23, 2022, 7:59:40 AM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com wrote:

>Because that misses her point that the experts say there is no
>heartbeat at six weeks old. I don't know what her comments are about
>but one possibility is that some machines do interpret the electrical
>signals that are expected at that stage of development as a heartbeat.
>I would have to hear more from her on why she made that particular
>statement to have an opinion. On the idea that there is no fetal
>heartbeat at six weeks the science seems settled.


TROLL-O-METER

5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity


shawn

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Sep 23, 2022, 8:57:42 AM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 05:06:09 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:

>shawn <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 23:26:52 +0000, BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>>Notorious election-denier Stacey Abrams is now pushing a theory that
>>>ultrasound machines, used in hospitals now all over the world, were designed
>>>by a cabal of men to manufacture a fake heartbeat sound on purpose in order to
>>>convince women to keep unwanted pregnancies.
>
>>>This is beyond QAnon shit but the media won't say a word about it.
>
>>>https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1572741568234225667/vid/480x270/WfE_ptcfCE8oEbV9.mp4?tag=14
>
>>Because that misses her point that the experts say there is no
>>heartbeat at six weeks old.
>
>This Web page says that cells that will form the heart begin to cluster
>and pulse during week 5 and there may be a detectable heartbeat with an
>ultrasound at week 6 or so. It's done in part to confirm estimated due
>date. There may not be a DETECTABLE heartbeat simply due to the position
>of the foetus.
>
>https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/fetal-development/fetal-heart-heartbeat-circulatory-system/
>
>What expert are you quoting from that says that the heart isn't yet
>developed enough by week 6 to beat?

It comes down to what people mean by a heart beat. For me and
apparently many scientists it means an actual heart beating so there
is blood flow going through the heart. For others, like in your
article, it is enough for the cells that will become a heart to start
fluctuating in unison the way they will as a functioning heart.

https://www.livescience.com/65501-fetal-heartbeat-at-6-weeks-explained.html

But what exactly do we mean when we talk about a "fetal heartbeat" at
six weeks of pregnancy? Although some people might picture a
heart-shaped organ beating inside a fetus, this is not the case.

Rather, at six weeks of pregnancy, an ultrasound can detect "a little
flutter in the area that will become the future heart of the baby,"
said Dr. Saima Aftab, medical director of the Fetal Care Center at
Nicklaus Children's Hospital in Miami. This flutter happens because
the group of cells that will become the future "pacemaker" of the
heart gain the capacity to fire electrical signals, she said.

BTR1701

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Sep 23, 2022, 12:46:50 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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In article <p3brih1cf3t61i0u4...@4ax.com>,
None of that means the machines are designed by a conspiracy of men to
trick women into keeping their pregnancies.

Abrams is a nutcase.

Adam H. Kerman

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Sep 23, 2022, 1:48:37 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
shawn <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>Fri, 23 Sep 2022 05:06:09 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>shawn <nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 23:26:52 +0000, BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:

>>>>Notorious election-denier Stacey Abrams is now pushing a theory that
>>>>ultrasound machines, used in hospitals now all over the world, were
>>>>designed by a cabal of men to manufacture a fake heartbeat sound on
>>>>purpose in order to convince women to keep unwanted pregnancies.

>>>>This is beyond QAnon shit but the media won't say a word about it.

>>>>https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1572741568234225667/vid/480x270/WfE_ptcfCE8oEbV9.mp4?tag=14

>>>Because that misses her point that the experts say there is no
>>>heartbeat at six weeks old.

>>This Web page says that cells that will form the heart begin to cluster
>>and pulse during week 5 and there may be a detectable heartbeat with an
>>ultrasound at week 6 or so. It's done in part to confirm estimated due
>>date. There may not be a DETECTABLE heartbeat simply due to the position
>>of the foetus.

I should not have said "foetus" here as by definition, it's still an
embryo. I don't believe there's some sort of bright-line distinction
during normal development, just that a certain number of weeks have
passed.

>>https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/fetal-development/fetal-heart-heartbeat-circulatory-system/

>>What expert are you quoting from that says that the heart isn't yet
>>developed enough by week 6 to beat?

>It comes down to what people mean by a heart beat. For me and
>apparently many scientists it means an actual heart beating so there
>is blood flow going through the heart. For others, like in your
>article, it is enough for the cells that will become a heart to start
>fluctuating in unison the way they will as a functioning heart.

The words "pulse" and "beat" are synonymous. The cells in questions are the
cells which act upon electrical impulse to regulate the heartbeat itself.
The issue isn't whether the heart is yet developed enough for blood to
circulate.

In this instance, therefore, the pro-life types aren't screwing with
ordinary definitions of words and aren't misrepresenting this landmark
during pregnancy.

>https://www.livescience.com/65501-fetal-heartbeat-at-6-weeks-explained.html

>. . .

shawn

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Sep 23, 2022, 1:49:10 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
Stacey Abrams is anything but a nut case. Now I don't know where this
statement of hers comes from but I've heard her speak on many topics
and she is anything but a nut case. Now if you were talking about
Herschel Walker, well, that would be a different story. The man may
have been all there back in his heyday on the football field but he's
definitely lost a few too many brain cells.

BTR1701

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Sep 23, 2022, 2:47:33 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
In article <o8srihlj1tof44dmd...@4ax.com>,
She walked around for two years undermining our democracy and telling
anyone who would listen that she was the real governor of Georgia.

Now this ultra-sound conspiracy theory She's a grade-A lunatic.

moviePig

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Sep 23, 2022, 5:11:18 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
"Ultra sound" means her theory is very well founded, right? Because
here's what are apparently the facts:

"What health experts say “The language we use when discussing
reproductive health has a profound impact on what people hear and
learn,” The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists writes
online. The organization encourages people to use unbiased, “clinically
accurate” terminology when discussing reproductive health. Ultimately,
there appears to be some conflicting information among different health
professionals and organizations about when a heartbeat can be heard
during pregnancy. Dr. Ian Fraser Golding, a fetal cardiologist at Rady
Children’s Hospital in San Diego, told NBC News in April that “while the
heart does begin to develop at around six weeks, at this point the heart
as we know it does not yet exist.” According to the ACOG, it is
“inaccurate to use the word ‘heartbeat’ to describe the sound that can
be heard on ultrasound in very early pregnancy.” “In fact, there are no
chambers of the heart developed at the early stage in pregnancy that
this word is used to describe, so there is no recognizable ‘heartbeat,’”
the organization writes online."


BTR1701

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Sep 23, 2022, 5:18:36 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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trotsky

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Sep 23, 2022, 6:03:18 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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No, I already explained what you did wrong just like with Nikki Haley,
but you're hell bent on proving you're a dickless loser compounded by
being a eunuch.

trotsky

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Sep 23, 2022, 6:11:41 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
OMG, the right wing assholes are desperate to prove they have no wit and
no facts simulaneously. Just like when you literally drove off a cliff
about Nikki Haley. And was decimated.

trotsky

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Sep 23, 2022, 6:13:19 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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Maybe you'll figure out Derp and his Oath Keeper buddies don't give a
flying fuck about the facts.


trotsky

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Sep 23, 2022, 6:20:46 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
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Kemp committed numerous crimes, any guy with a brain and a pair of
testicle knows this. I can see how you ran into a snag, and instead
started billowing horseshit.


shawn

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Sep 23, 2022, 7:18:26 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
That BS that sounds like right-wing talking points. She conceded the
race but did claim that Kemp made efforts to change the results of the
election.

A quick Google search resulted in the following bit that addresses the
issue:

https://19thnews.org/2022/09/stacey-abrams-trump-democracy-big-lie/

Abrams acknowledged her loss to Kemp days after the 2018 election. But
she attributed that defeat — by less than 1.4 percentage points — to
efforts by Kemp, then the secretary of state, to suppress voter
turnout. Kemp denied the allegations.

“The issues that I raised in 2018 were not grounded in making me the
governor,” Abrams told The 19th’s Editor-at-Large Errin Haines at a
Monday event. “Not a single lawsuit filed would have reversed or
changed the outcome of the election. My point was that the access to
the election was flawed, and I refuse to concede a system that permits
citizens to be denied access. That is very different than someone
claiming fraudulent outcome.”


-----------
So she acknowledges that Kemp won the election but questions the
actions he took to help get there. Actions that would and are being
used in the upcoming elections such as limiting polling places.

BTR1701

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Sep 23, 2022, 9:47:53 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
In article <t9fsihta8q6uq2j7e...@4ax.com>,
How come there are never any left-wing talk points?

> She conceded the race

Eventually, but not before threatening our democracy by claiming to be
the real governor for extended period of time.

> but did claim that Kemp made efforts to change the results of the
> election.

> "The issues that I raised in 2018 were not grounded in making me the
> governor," Abrams told The 19th’s Editor-at-Large Errin Haines at a
> Monday event. "Not a single lawsuit filed would have reversed or
> changed the outcome of the election. My point was that the access to
> the election was flawed, and I refuse to concede a system that permits
> citizens to be denied access. That is very different than someone
> claiming fraudulent outcome."

Sounds like a lot of post-hoc rationalization to me to justify why "it
was different" when she did it.

BTR1701

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Sep 23, 2022, 9:52:11 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
In article <RhpXK.166149$IRd5....@fx10.iad>,
> this word is used to describe, so there is no recognizable 'heartbeat.'"

So the heart tissue is beating but it's not a heartbeat and no one ever
objected to describing it so until it became politically advantageous to
do so vis a vis state abortion laws.

Got it.

And, of course, none of that refutes Abrams' ridiculous conspiracy claim
that ultrasound machines were programmed to detect a beat to trick women
into keeping pregnancies.

shawn

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Sep 23, 2022, 11:54:08 PM (2 days ago) Sep 23
to
Oh there are but the thing with the left wing is that they seem to
have hundreds of talking points while the right wing tends to focus on
a few points over and over again.

>> She conceded the race
>
>Eventually, but not before threatening our democracy by claiming to be
>the real governor for extended period of time.

You mean conceding that year wasn't good enough for you?
I don't know if she conceded that night or week or the next week but
clearly by the 18th of November 2018 she had conceded. Hence the
article from NPR:
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/16/668737597/georgia-facing-final-deadline-for-ballot-certification-in-governors-race

Stacey Abrams has ended her bid to be Georgia's next governor. She
would have been the first black woman ever elected governor in U.S.
history. She fought a contentious race against Republican Brian Kemp.
Speaking to supporters today, Abrams says she saw no viable way to win
and spoke passionately about how the race played out.

>> but did claim that Kemp made efforts to change the results of the
>> election.
>
>> "The issues that I raised in 2018 were not grounded in making me the
>> governor," Abrams told The 19th’s Editor-at-Large Errin Haines at a
>> Monday event. "Not a single lawsuit filed would have reversed or
>> changed the outcome of the election. My point was that the access to
>> the election was flawed, and I refuse to concede a system that permits
>> citizens to be denied access. That is very different than someone
>> claiming fraudulent outcome."
>
>Sounds like a lot of post-hoc rationalization to me to justify why "it
>was different" when she did it.

No, the points she raised at the time were being raised before the
election. Being in Georgia I got to see it all first hand and the
issues kept being raised in local and statewide elections by many
people. It's some of the same issues that were being raised in other
states.

So this is really the typical political nit pick that both sides do
where they take what someone has said and focus on one point and
ignore the main point being made. In this case her statement that she
wouldn't say that she conceded (after the election was over) because
conceding means that it was a fair election and she felt that things
that were done weren't fair. However she did say that he won and there
weren't going to be any legal battles over the election.

So she didn't agree with the barriers put in the way of voters before
the election and thought that made the election unfair. Not an illegal
election or one that deserved to be contested with constant audits as
some others have done, but one where the system needs to be changed so
that everyone has the opportunity to vote. Something that I think we
are approaching as it is still easy enough to request a mail-in
ballot. So anyone who is registered to vote can vote regardless of if
they have the time to go to the polls on election day. Of course that
means there are bound to be claims of voter fraud much like Trump did
(we've already seen a few people start the discussion ) because
Republicans tend to vote on the day and Democrats do more early
voting. (I have no idea how Libertarians, Independents and others
trend in their voting habits.)

trotsky

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Sep 24, 2022, 6:02:53 AM (yesterday) Sep 24
to
Exactly, because it's heart tissue that will eventually form a heart.
Congrats, you understand this now!


and no one ever
> objected to describing it so until it became politically advantageous to
> do so vis a vis state abortion laws.
>
> Got it.


Hey, we're just trying to save actually lives. You're trying to get
mothers killed if their pregnancies go bad, when you're not busy tending
to the killing of school children by assault weapons in schools.


> And, of course, none of that refutes Abrams' ridiculous conspiracy claim
> that ultrasound machines were programmed to detect a beat to trick women
> into keeping pregnancies.


Because that's a fucking lie, and if you keep repeating it it will like
a fucking lie but you'll sound even more stupid and castrated by showing
you're too scared shitless of the truth. But you be you, pick out the
dimwitted and verbally challenged to spew horseshit all over.

moviePig

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Sep 24, 2022, 9:11:08 AM (yesterday) Sep 24
to
Or... until it was used as yet another "magic moment" of reproduction.


> Got it.

'It' being, "the heart as we know it does not yet exist"?


> And, of course, none of that refutes Abrams' ridiculous conspiracy claim
> that ultrasound machines were programmed to detect a beat to trick women
> into keeping pregnancies.

Got a cite of her saying that? Because it wasn't in your linked video...



NoBody

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Sep 24, 2022, 9:41:52 AM (yesterday) Sep 24
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 09:47:11 -0700, BTR1701 <atr...@mac.com> wrote:

One would think that no one would ever take her and Cortez seriously
as both are clearly batsh*t. Yet there they are - still in the public
arena.

NoBody

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Sep 24, 2022, 9:47:28 AM (yesterday) Sep 24
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 13:49:04 -0400, shawn
"Abrams says "when we allow democracy to be overtaken by those who
want to choose who can be heard, and those choices are not based on
anything other than animus or inconvenience, then that is wrong.""

https://katv.com/news/nation-world/critics-mock-stacey-abrams-after-she-compares-herself-supporters-to-zelenskyy-ukraine-volodymyr-russia-voter-reform-election-georgia-governor-comedy-central-daily-show-trevor-noah

Somehow she excluded her own party from this when they are the ones
silencing speech.


"
Stacey Abrams faced backlash Sunday for appearing in a photo
maskless with dozens of masked children.
Abrams pushed back in a statement Sunday and called the attacks
"pathetic, transparent, and silly."
The Georgia candidate for governor shared and later deleted the
photo from her visit to an Atlanta elementary school.

"
https://www.businessinsider.com/stacey-abrams-pushed-back-at-critics-of-maskless-photo-2022-2

She is a complete and utter moron.

The Horny Goat

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Sep 24, 2022, 12:48:53 PM (yesterday) Sep 24
to
On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 23:54:01 -0400, shawn
<nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:

>So she didn't agree with the barriers put in the way of voters before
>the election and thought that made the election unfair. Not an illegal
>election or one that deserved to be contested with constant audits as
>some others have done, but one where the system needs to be changed so
>that everyone has the opportunity to vote. Something that I think we
>are approaching as it is still easy enough to request a mail-in
>ballot. So anyone who is registered to vote can vote regardless of if
>they have the time to go to the polls on election day. Of course that
>means there are bound to be claims of voter fraud much like Trump did
>(we've already seen a few people start the discussion ) because
>Republicans tend to vote on the day and Democrats do more early
>voting. (I have no idea how Libertarians, Independents and others
>trend in their voting habits.)

I've read her book and while I don't agree that the obstacles amount
to voter suppression agree Georgia has much to do.

I don't have that much of a problem with mail votes delivered by the
standard mail system but take very very strong objection with
privately collecting and delivering of ballots via non post office
means since I think they are wide open to voter fraud.

We had a case of this locally where some 20-30 ballots were sent in
all together all collected in a certain ethnic community center where
people who didn't speak English had a meeting where they were told to
bring their ballots to the meeting and were instructed in how to fill
in their ballots.....all led by an agent for one of the candidates. It
was believed (but not proven) that this candidate had used other
agents in immigrant communities.

So no I am deathly opposed to private deliveries of ballots.

David Johnston

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Sep 24, 2022, 3:12:12 PM (yesterday) Sep 24
to
On 2022-09-22 5:26 p.m., BTR1701 wrote:
> Notorious election-denier Stacey Abrams is now pushing a theory that
> ultrasound machines, used in hospitals now all over the world, were designed
> by a cabal of men to manufacture a fake heartbeat sound on purpose in order to
> convince women to keep unwanted pregnancies.

It is true that "heartbeats" can be detected before there actually is a
functioning heart.

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