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Requiring Picture ID raises voter participation levels, opposite to what the media says
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weary flake
Jan 12, 2022, 9:59:59 PM1/12/22
to
Members of our media monopoly never differ with each other on the matter of
election integrity nor any other subject and they have unanimously declared
that to require picture ID for voting in the USA is the "moral equivalent of murder".
Here's a countering statement the judge and jury at The New York Times, CBS,
AT&T, Comcast, Disney, NBC, PBS, Zuckerberg, Larry Page and the whole gang wants
to make illegal:
from October 2021:
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/ensuring-election-integrity-anti-democratic/
Sixteen years ago, in 2005, the Carter-Baker Commission on
Federal Election Reform issued a report that proposed a uniform
system of requiring a photo ID in order to vote in U.S.
elections. The report also pointed out that widespread absentee
voting makes vote fraud more likely. Voter files contain
ineligible, duplicate, fictional, and deceased voters, a fact
easily exploited using absentee ballots to commit fraud. Citizens
who vote absentee are more susceptible to pressure and
intimidation. And vote-buying schemes are far easier when
citizens vote by mail.
Who was behind the Carter-Baker Commission? Donald Trump? No. The
Commission’s two ranking members were former President Jimmy
Carter, a Democrat, and former Secretary of State James Baker
III, a Republican. Other Democrats on the Commission were former
Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and former Indiana Congressman
Lee Hamilton. It was a truly bipartisan commission that made what
seemed at the time to be common sense proposals.
How things have changed. Some of the Commission’s members, Jimmy
Carter among them, came out last year to disavow the Commission’s
work. And despite surveys showing that Americans overwhelmingly
support measures to ensure election integrity—a recent Rasmussen
survey found that 80 percent of Americans support a voter ID
requirement—Democratic leaders across the board oppose such
measures in the strongest terms.
Here, for instance, is President Biden speaking recently in
Philadelphia, condemning the idea of voter IDs: “There is an
unfolding assault taking place in America today—an attempt to
suppress and subvert the right to vote in fair and free
elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an
assault on who we are—who we are as Americans. For, make no
mistake, bullies and merchants of fear and peddlers of lies are
threatening the very foundation of our country.” Sadly but
predicably, he went on to suggest that requiring voter IDs would
mean returning people to slavery.
But the fact is that the U.S. is an outlier among the world’s
democracies in not requiring voter ID. Of the 47 countries in
Europe today, 46 of them currently require government-issued
photo IDs to vote. The odd man out is the United Kingdom, in
which Northern Ireland and many localities require voter IDs, but
the requirement is not nationwide. The British Parliament,
however, is considering a nationwide requirement, so very soon
all 47 European countries will likely have adopted this
common-sense policy.
When it comes to absentee voting, we Americans, accustomed as we
are to very loose rules, are often shocked to learn that 35 of
the 47 European countries—including France, Italy, the
Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden—don’t allow absentee voting for
citizens living in country. Another ten European
countries—including England, Ireland, Denmark, Portugal, and
Spain—allow absentee voting, but require voters to show up in
person and present a photo ID to pick up their ballots. It isn’t
like in the U.S., where a person can say he’s going to be out of
town and have a ballot mailed to him.
England used to have absentee voting rules similar to ours in the
U.S. But in 2004, in the city of Birmingham, officials uncovered
a massive vote fraud scheme in the city council races. The six
winning Labor candidates had fraudulently acquired about 40,000
absentee votes, mainly from Muslim areas of the city. As a
result, England ended the practice of mailing out absentee
ballots and required voters to pick up their ballots in person
with a photo ID.
Up until 1975, France also had loose absentee voting rules. But
when massive vote fraud was discovered on the island of
Corsica—where hundreds of thousands of dead people were found to
be voting and even larger-scale vote-buying operations were
occurring—France banned absentee voting altogether.
On the topic of buying votes, I should point out that we in the
U.S. did not always have secret ballots. It wasn’t until 1880
that the first state adopted the secret ballot, and the last
state to adopt it was South Carolina in 1950. Perhaps
surprisingly, when secret ballots were adopted, the percentage of
people voting fell by about twelve percent. Why was that? Prior
to the adoption of the secret ballot, lots of people would get
paid for voting. In those days, people voted by placing pieces of
colored paper in the ballot box, with different colors
representing different parties. Party officials would be present
to observe what color paper each voter put into the box, and
depending on the color, the voter would often get paid. Secret
ballots put an end to this practice.
France learned in 1975 that the use of absentee ballots led to
the same practice—it allowed third parties to know how people
voted and pay them for voting a certain way. This same problem is
now proliferating in the U.S. in the form of “ballot harvesting,”
the increasingly common practice where party functionaries
distribute and collect ballots.
Defenders of our current voting rules point out that in lieu of
absentee voting, some European countries allow “proxy voting,”
whereby one person can designate another to vote for him. And
while it is true that eight of the 47 European countries allow
proxy voting—meaning that 39 do not—there are strict
requirements. In five of the eight countries—Belgium, England,
Monaco, Poland, and Sweden—proxy voting is limited to those with
a disability or an illness or who are out of the country. In
Poland, it also requires the approval of the local mayor, and in
Monaco the approval of the general secretariat. In France and the
Netherlands, proxy voting has to be arranged through a notary
public. Switzerland is the only country in Europe with a
relatively liberal proxy voting policy, requiring only a
signature match.
How about our neighbors, Canada and Mexico? Canada requires a
photo ID to vote. If a voter shows up at the polls without an ID,
he is allowed to vote only if he declares who he is in writing
and if there is someone working at the polling station who can
personally verify his identity.
Mexico has had a long history of election fraud. Partly because
its leaders were concerned about a drop in foreign investment if
it wasn’t perceived to be a legitimate democracy, Mexico recently
instituted strict reforms. Voters must present a biometric ID—an
ID with not only a photo, but also a thumb print. Voters also
have indelible ink applied to their thumbs, preventing them from
voting more than once. And absentee voting is prohibited, even
for people living outside the country.
Those who oppose election integrity reform here in the U.S. often
condemn it as a means of “voter suppression.” But in Mexico, the
percent of people voting rose from 59 percent before the reforms
to 68 percent after. It turned out that Mexicans were more, not
less, likely to vote when they had confidence that their votes
mattered.
H.R. 1, the radical bill Democratic Party leaders have been
pushing to adopt this year, would prohibit states from requiring
voter ID and require states to allow permanent mail-in voting.
And mail-in voting, I hardly need to point out, is even worse, in
terms of vote fraud, than absentee voting. With absentee voting,
a person at least has to request a ballot. With mail-in voting—as
we saw in too many places in the 2020 election—ballots are simply
mailed out to everyone. With loose absentee voting rules, a
country is making itself vulnerable to vote fraud. With mail-in
voting, a country is almost begging for vote fraud.
If the rhetoric we hear from the Left today is correct—if voter
ID requirements and restrictions on absentee (or even mail-in)
voting are un-democratic -- then so are the countries of Europe and
the rest of the developed world. But this is utter nonsense.
Those opposing common sense measures to ensure integrity in U.S.
elections—measures such as those recommended by the bipartisan
Carter-Baker Commission in 2005—are not motivated by a concern
for democracy, but by partisan interests.
election integrity nor any other subject and they have unanimously declared
that to require picture ID for voting in the USA is the "moral equivalent of murder".
Here's a countering statement the judge and jury at The New York Times, CBS,
AT&T, Comcast, Disney, NBC, PBS, Zuckerberg, Larry Page and the whole gang wants
to make illegal:
from October 2021:
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/ensuring-election-integrity-anti-democratic/
Sixteen years ago, in 2005, the Carter-Baker Commission on
Federal Election Reform issued a report that proposed a uniform
system of requiring a photo ID in order to vote in U.S.
elections. The report also pointed out that widespread absentee
voting makes vote fraud more likely. Voter files contain
ineligible, duplicate, fictional, and deceased voters, a fact
easily exploited using absentee ballots to commit fraud. Citizens
who vote absentee are more susceptible to pressure and
intimidation. And vote-buying schemes are far easier when
citizens vote by mail.
Who was behind the Carter-Baker Commission? Donald Trump? No. The
Commission’s two ranking members were former President Jimmy
Carter, a Democrat, and former Secretary of State James Baker
III, a Republican. Other Democrats on the Commission were former
Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and former Indiana Congressman
Lee Hamilton. It was a truly bipartisan commission that made what
seemed at the time to be common sense proposals.
How things have changed. Some of the Commission’s members, Jimmy
Carter among them, came out last year to disavow the Commission’s
work. And despite surveys showing that Americans overwhelmingly
support measures to ensure election integrity—a recent Rasmussen
survey found that 80 percent of Americans support a voter ID
requirement—Democratic leaders across the board oppose such
measures in the strongest terms.
Here, for instance, is President Biden speaking recently in
Philadelphia, condemning the idea of voter IDs: “There is an
unfolding assault taking place in America today—an attempt to
suppress and subvert the right to vote in fair and free
elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an
assault on who we are—who we are as Americans. For, make no
mistake, bullies and merchants of fear and peddlers of lies are
threatening the very foundation of our country.” Sadly but
predicably, he went on to suggest that requiring voter IDs would
mean returning people to slavery.
But the fact is that the U.S. is an outlier among the world’s
democracies in not requiring voter ID. Of the 47 countries in
Europe today, 46 of them currently require government-issued
photo IDs to vote. The odd man out is the United Kingdom, in
which Northern Ireland and many localities require voter IDs, but
the requirement is not nationwide. The British Parliament,
however, is considering a nationwide requirement, so very soon
all 47 European countries will likely have adopted this
common-sense policy.
When it comes to absentee voting, we Americans, accustomed as we
are to very loose rules, are often shocked to learn that 35 of
the 47 European countries—including France, Italy, the
Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden—don’t allow absentee voting for
citizens living in country. Another ten European
countries—including England, Ireland, Denmark, Portugal, and
Spain—allow absentee voting, but require voters to show up in
person and present a photo ID to pick up their ballots. It isn’t
like in the U.S., where a person can say he’s going to be out of
town and have a ballot mailed to him.
England used to have absentee voting rules similar to ours in the
U.S. But in 2004, in the city of Birmingham, officials uncovered
a massive vote fraud scheme in the city council races. The six
winning Labor candidates had fraudulently acquired about 40,000
absentee votes, mainly from Muslim areas of the city. As a
result, England ended the practice of mailing out absentee
ballots and required voters to pick up their ballots in person
with a photo ID.
Up until 1975, France also had loose absentee voting rules. But
when massive vote fraud was discovered on the island of
Corsica—where hundreds of thousands of dead people were found to
be voting and even larger-scale vote-buying operations were
occurring—France banned absentee voting altogether.
On the topic of buying votes, I should point out that we in the
U.S. did not always have secret ballots. It wasn’t until 1880
that the first state adopted the secret ballot, and the last
state to adopt it was South Carolina in 1950. Perhaps
surprisingly, when secret ballots were adopted, the percentage of
people voting fell by about twelve percent. Why was that? Prior
to the adoption of the secret ballot, lots of people would get
paid for voting. In those days, people voted by placing pieces of
colored paper in the ballot box, with different colors
representing different parties. Party officials would be present
to observe what color paper each voter put into the box, and
depending on the color, the voter would often get paid. Secret
ballots put an end to this practice.
France learned in 1975 that the use of absentee ballots led to
the same practice—it allowed third parties to know how people
voted and pay them for voting a certain way. This same problem is
now proliferating in the U.S. in the form of “ballot harvesting,”
the increasingly common practice where party functionaries
distribute and collect ballots.
Defenders of our current voting rules point out that in lieu of
absentee voting, some European countries allow “proxy voting,”
whereby one person can designate another to vote for him. And
while it is true that eight of the 47 European countries allow
proxy voting—meaning that 39 do not—there are strict
requirements. In five of the eight countries—Belgium, England,
Monaco, Poland, and Sweden—proxy voting is limited to those with
a disability or an illness or who are out of the country. In
Poland, it also requires the approval of the local mayor, and in
Monaco the approval of the general secretariat. In France and the
Netherlands, proxy voting has to be arranged through a notary
public. Switzerland is the only country in Europe with a
relatively liberal proxy voting policy, requiring only a
signature match.
How about our neighbors, Canada and Mexico? Canada requires a
photo ID to vote. If a voter shows up at the polls without an ID,
he is allowed to vote only if he declares who he is in writing
and if there is someone working at the polling station who can
personally verify his identity.
Mexico has had a long history of election fraud. Partly because
its leaders were concerned about a drop in foreign investment if
it wasn’t perceived to be a legitimate democracy, Mexico recently
instituted strict reforms. Voters must present a biometric ID—an
ID with not only a photo, but also a thumb print. Voters also
have indelible ink applied to their thumbs, preventing them from
voting more than once. And absentee voting is prohibited, even
for people living outside the country.
Those who oppose election integrity reform here in the U.S. often
condemn it as a means of “voter suppression.” But in Mexico, the
percent of people voting rose from 59 percent before the reforms
to 68 percent after. It turned out that Mexicans were more, not
less, likely to vote when they had confidence that their votes
mattered.
H.R. 1, the radical bill Democratic Party leaders have been
pushing to adopt this year, would prohibit states from requiring
voter ID and require states to allow permanent mail-in voting.
And mail-in voting, I hardly need to point out, is even worse, in
terms of vote fraud, than absentee voting. With absentee voting,
a person at least has to request a ballot. With mail-in voting—as
we saw in too many places in the 2020 election—ballots are simply
mailed out to everyone. With loose absentee voting rules, a
country is making itself vulnerable to vote fraud. With mail-in
voting, a country is almost begging for vote fraud.
If the rhetoric we hear from the Left today is correct—if voter
ID requirements and restrictions on absentee (or even mail-in)
voting are un-democratic -- then so are the countries of Europe and
the rest of the developed world. But this is utter nonsense.
Those opposing common sense measures to ensure integrity in U.S.
elections—measures such as those recommended by the bipartisan
Carter-Baker Commission in 2005—are not motivated by a concern
for democracy, but by partisan interests.
moviePig
Jan 12, 2022, 11:18:30 PM1/12/22
to
On 1/12/2022 9:59 PM, weary flake wrote:
> Members of our media monopoly never differ with each other on the matter of
> election integrity nor any other subject and they have unanimously declared
> that to require picture ID for voting in the USA is the "moral equivalent of murder".
> Here's a countering statement the judge and jury at The New York Times, CBS,
> AT&T, Comcast, Disney, NBC, PBS, Zuckerberg, Larry Page and the whole gang wants
> to make illegal:
>
> from October 2021:
>
> https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/ensuring-election-integrity-anti-democratic/
>
> Sixteen years ago, in 2005, the Carter-Baker Commission on
> Federal Election Reform issued a report that proposed a uniform
> system of requiring a photo ID in order to vote in U.S.
> elections. ...
> Members of our media monopoly never differ with each other on the matter of
> election integrity nor any other subject and they have unanimously declared
> that to require picture ID for voting in the USA is the "moral equivalent of murder".
> Here's a countering statement the judge and jury at The New York Times, CBS,
> AT&T, Comcast, Disney, NBC, PBS, Zuckerberg, Larry Page and the whole gang wants
> to make illegal:
>
> from October 2021:
>
> https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/ensuring-election-integrity-anti-democratic/
>
> Sixteen years ago, in 2005, the Carter-Baker Commission on
> Federal Election Reform issued a report that proposed a uniform
> system of requiring a photo ID in order to vote in U.S.
>
> Those opposing common sense measures to ensure integrity in U.S.
> elections—measures such as those recommended by the bipartisan
> Carter-Baker Commission in 2005—are not motivated by a concern
> for democracy, but by partisan interests.
Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
> Those opposing common sense measures to ensure integrity in U.S.
> elections—measures such as those recommended by the bipartisan
> Carter-Baker Commission in 2005—are not motivated by a concern
> for democracy, but by partisan interests.
from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
BTR1701
Jan 13, 2022, 12:00:20 AM1/13/22
to
or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
RichA
Jan 13, 2022, 12:28:48 AM1/13/22
to
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 13, 2022, 1:07:31 AM1/13/22
to
BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>. . .
>>Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
Hey losing candidate. You didn't lose because lots and lots of
fraudulent votes were cast in person on election day. You lost because
you didn't connect with the voters, didn't get your message out, and
flat out ran a lousy campaign. Just ask Hillary.
>moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>. . .
>>Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
Hey losing candidate. You didn't lose because lots and lots of
fraudulent votes were cast in person on election day. You lost because
you didn't connect with the voters, didn't get your message out, and
flat out ran a lousy campaign. Just ask Hillary.
BTR1701
Jan 13, 2022, 2:21:48 AM1/13/22
to
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>> Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>> from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>> impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>> in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>
>> Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>> or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>> insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>
> There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
> voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>
> The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
> to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>
> Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
> appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
I didn't. I filled out a card and dropped it in the mail. Never showed
> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>> Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>> from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>> impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>> in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>
>> Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>> or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>> insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>
> There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
> voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>
> The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
> to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>
> Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
> appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
anyone any ID.
Ubiquitous
Jan 13, 2022, 8:00:56 AM1/13/22
to
5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity
suzeeq
Jan 13, 2022, 11:08:29 AM1/13/22
to
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 13, 2022, 11:17:18 AM1/13/22
to
change?
California isn't a real place, just a bad example for the rest of the
country. I love how your state legislature makes my state legislature
look like a reform body.
My state had implemented federal Motor Voter way back in the beginning
in 1991. There had been a lot of controversy because Secretary of
State's motor vehicle services had always been supposed to offer voter
registration services but they rarely had a clerk in the facility who
was a resident of the right county. Generally, the voter had to apply to
a deputy county clerk or a municipal or township clerk or a voter registrar.
A registrar was just a volunteer trained to fill out forms but had to be
registered with the county clerk, which meant that both the voter and
registrar had to live in the same county.
The secretary of state serves the entire state and any deputy secretary
of state in an office that serves the public should have been allowed to
register a voter regardless of what county the employee lived in. In
fact, the state board of elections had already come up with a suggested
voter registration application -- three parts with carbons -- that most
counties had implemented versions of. For the counties that hadn't, they
could have kept a small inventory of forms.
With the implementation of Motor Voter, yeah, there could still be
volunteer registrars but that became rare. Instead, there was a
statewide application, which also served as register-by-mail. If the
voter did it in person, he showed the required ID. If the voter
registered by mail, then he was required to vote in person next time and
to show ID at the polls the first time.
Federal Motor Voter required that the driver's license database (which
includes the state-issued ID for nondrivers) and Social Security database
be extracted and everyone's application run against one or the other
database. You had to have either a driver's license number or Social
Security Number. You had to show something with a current address to
prove residence, but that could be the driver's license if that showed
the current address.
Federal law has mandated procedures for people who don't have SSNs or a
driver's license and it's possible to register to vote without this.
This is why I'm so fed up with this "show voter ID at the polls" crap,
since the states that passed such legislation already mandated showing
ID (complying with federal law) to register in the first place.
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 13, 2022, 11:20:42 AM1/13/22
to
BTR1701
Jan 13, 2022, 2:50:57 PM1/13/22
to
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> . . .
>
>>>>> Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>>>> from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>>>> impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>>>> in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>
>>>> Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>>>> or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>>>> insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>
>>> There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
>>> voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>
>>> The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
>>> to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>
>>> Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
>>> appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
>
>> I didn't. I filled out a card and dropped it in the mail. Never showed
>> anyone any ID.
>
> For your initial voter registration in California or for an address
> change?
Initial registration.
> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> . . .
>
>>>>> Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>>>> from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>>>> impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>>>> in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>
>>>> Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>>>> or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>>>> insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>
>>> There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
>>> voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>
>>> The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
>>> to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>
>>> Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
>>> appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
>
>> I didn't. I filled out a card and dropped it in the mail. Never showed
>> anyone any ID.
>
> For your initial voter registration in California or for an address
> change?
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 13, 2022, 4:36:15 PM1/13/22
to
My initial voter registrations were long before Motor Voter. I never
showed ID. In theory if I'd never moved out of that county, I'd have
been able to change my voting address by mail, never showing ID.
The Horny Goat
Jan 13, 2022, 6:46:36 PM1/13/22
to
On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 18:59:48 -0800, weary flake <weary...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Here, for instance, is President Biden speaking recently in
>Philadelphia, condemning the idea of voter IDs: “There is an
>unfolding assault taking place in America today—an attempt to
>suppress and subvert the right to vote in fair and free
>elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an
>assault on who we are—who we are as Americans. For, make no
>mistake, bullies and merchants of fear and peddlers of lies are
>threatening the very foundation of our country.�€? Sadly but
In our area we have a personal ID card which is exactly the same as a
driver's licence except for the words saying it's not valid for
driving. Yes there's a fee but if one is receive social assistance
that's waived. Since we're in Canada and have what you folks call
"socialized medicine" it's used for that purpose as well. For voting
all they do in ensure the photo on the card looks something like you
and that your address on the card matches what's on their list.
(There's a simply change of address sticker they'll issue you if you
move within the term of the card. There's also a box on the standard
income tax form authorizing the tax man to share your info with the
voters' list people)
And I have nothing but contempt for Biden attempting to conjoin this
with slavery as if this is an issue that is primarily of interest to
blacks. I've taken mine out of my wallet twice since new year's most
recently yesterday at the doctor's office where they mostly wanted to
confirm address and date of birth.
As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
wrote:
>Here, for instance, is President Biden speaking recently in
>Philadelphia, condemning the idea of voter IDs: “There is an
>unfolding assault taking place in America today—an attempt to
>suppress and subvert the right to vote in fair and free
>elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an
>assault on who we are—who we are as Americans. For, make no
>mistake, bullies and merchants of fear and peddlers of lies are
>predicably, he went on to suggest that requiring voter IDs would
>mean returning people to slavery.
Methinks your president has redefined the term "over the top"
>mean returning people to slavery.
In our area we have a personal ID card which is exactly the same as a
driver's licence except for the words saying it's not valid for
driving. Yes there's a fee but if one is receive social assistance
that's waived. Since we're in Canada and have what you folks call
"socialized medicine" it's used for that purpose as well. For voting
all they do in ensure the photo on the card looks something like you
and that your address on the card matches what's on their list.
(There's a simply change of address sticker they'll issue you if you
move within the term of the card. There's also a box on the standard
income tax form authorizing the tax man to share your info with the
voters' list people)
And I have nothing but contempt for Biden attempting to conjoin this
with slavery as if this is an issue that is primarily of interest to
blacks. I've taken mine out of my wallet twice since new year's most
recently yesterday at the doctor's office where they mostly wanted to
confirm address and date of birth.
As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
The Horny Goat
Jan 13, 2022, 6:54:56 PM1/13/22
to
>On the topic of buying votes, I should point out that we in the
>U.S. did not always have secret ballots. It wasn’t until 1880
>that the first state adopted the secret ballot, and the last
>state to adopt it was South Carolina in 1950. Perhaps
>surprisingly, when secret ballots were adopted, the percentage of
>people voting fell by about twelve percent. Why was that? Prior
>to the adoption of the secret ballot, lots of people would get
>paid for voting. In those days, people voted by placing pieces of
>colored paper in the ballot box, with different colors
>representing different parties. Party officials would be present
>to observe what color paper each voter put into the box, and
>depending on the color, the voter would often get paid. Secret
>ballots put an end to this practice.
Long ago Canada didn't either and one had to go up on a platform to
>U.S. did not always have secret ballots. It wasn’t until 1880
>that the first state adopted the secret ballot, and the last
>state to adopt it was South Carolina in 1950. Perhaps
>surprisingly, when secret ballots were adopted, the percentage of
>people voting fell by about twelve percent. Why was that? Prior
>to the adoption of the secret ballot, lots of people would get
>paid for voting. In those days, people voted by placing pieces of
>colored paper in the ballot box, with different colors
>representing different parties. Party officials would be present
>to observe what color paper each voter put into the box, and
>depending on the color, the voter would often get paid. Secret
>ballots put an end to this practice.
cast their ballot. They even used to publicly announce "Mr ______ has
voted for <candidate>" and when one came down from the platform one
was offered a whiskey shot from the agent of the candidate you had
voted for.
While I don't know whether this is true or not, it used to be said
that entire elections turned on which agent had the better quality
booze that day.
Not that I have any personal knowledge of course since Canada has had
the secret ballot since 1874 shortly after the UK but before nearly
all of Europe.
moviePig
Jan 13, 2022, 7:02:37 PM1/13/22
to
On 1/13/2022 6:46 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 18:59:48 -0800, weary flake <weary...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here, for instance, is President Biden speaking recently in
>> Philadelphia, condemning the idea of voter IDs: “There is an
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2022 18:59:48 -0800, weary flake <weary...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here, for instance, is President Biden speaking recently in
>> unfolding assault taking place in America today—an attempt to
>> suppress and subvert the right to vote in fair and free
>> elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an
>> assault on who we are—who we are as Americans. For, make no
>> elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an
>> mistake, bullies and merchants of fear and peddlers of lies are
>> threatening the very foundation of our country.� Sadly but
>> predicably, he went on to suggest that requiring voter IDs would
>> mean returning people to slavery.
>
> Methinks your president has redefined the term "over the top"
>
> In our area we have a personal ID card which is exactly the same as a
> driver's licence except for the words saying it's not valid for
> driving. Yes there's a fee but if one is receive social assistance
> that's waived. Since we're in Canada and have what you folks call
> "socialized medicine" it's used for that purpose as well. For voting
> all they do in ensure the photo on the card looks something like you
> and that your address on the card matches what's on their list.
> (There's a simply change of address sticker they'll issue you if you
> move within the term of the card. There's also a box on the standard
> income tax form authorizing the tax man to share your info with the
> voters' list people)
>
> And I have nothing but contempt for Biden attempting to conjoin this
> with slavery as if this is an issue that is primarily of interest to
> blacks. I've taken mine out of my wallet twice since new year's most
> recently yesterday at the doctor's office where they mostly wanted to
> confirm address and date of birth.
>
> As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
> time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
> RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>> mean returning people to slavery.
>
> Methinks your president has redefined the term "over the top"
>
> In our area we have a personal ID card which is exactly the same as a
> driver's licence except for the words saying it's not valid for
> driving. Yes there's a fee but if one is receive social assistance
> that's waived. Since we're in Canada and have what you folks call
> "socialized medicine" it's used for that purpose as well. For voting
> all they do in ensure the photo on the card looks something like you
> and that your address on the card matches what's on their list.
> (There's a simply change of address sticker they'll issue you if you
> move within the term of the card. There's also a box on the standard
> income tax form authorizing the tax man to share your info with the
> voters' list people)
>
> And I have nothing but contempt for Biden attempting to conjoin this
> with slavery as if this is an issue that is primarily of interest to
> blacks. I've taken mine out of my wallet twice since new year's most
> recently yesterday at the doctor's office where they mostly wanted to
> confirm address and date of birth.
>
> As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
> time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
> RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
The Horny Goat
Jan 13, 2022, 7:06:07 PM1/13/22
to
>How about our neighbors, Canada and Mexico? Canada requires a
>photo ID to vote. If a voter shows up at the polls without an ID,
>he is allowed to vote only if he declares who he is in writing
>and if there is someone working at the polling station who can
>personally verify his identity.
>
Canada also allows mail in votes for those living outside the country
>photo ID to vote. If a voter shows up at the polls without an ID,
>he is allowed to vote only if he declares who he is in writing
>and if there is someone working at the polling station who can
>personally verify his identity.
>
though one can vote at the embassy (which is discouraged as it's on a
very busy corner of Trafalgar Square in London). My daughter who lives
in London voted that way in the last three Canadian federal elections.
(She also voted in the election for mayor of London, a by-election to
replace the parliamentary seat vacated by the new mayor of London, the
Brexit referendum and two UK general elections)
One thing that is common in Canada is for the elections staff to take
a ballot box through the hospital wards on election day. One has to
register with the nursing staff to vote since they escort the election
staff to the appropriate hospital rooms. Not sure if that's done coast
to coast but federal, provincial and municipal elections are all done
that way in BC. Now you DON'T get to choose your own time of the 12
hour period healthy voters get but you DO get to vote.
No question Canadian election line ups are shorter but then with
separate federal provincial and municipal elections, this is hardly
surprising. My ballot last September had 5 or 6 candidates and I was
in and out in 20-30 minutes which is longer than usual but they were
being strict on Covid protocols so the line was longer than usual.
The Horny Goat
Jan 13, 2022, 7:14:04 PM1/13/22
to
On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 06:07:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>Hey losing candidate. You didn't lose because lots and lots of
>fraudulent votes were cast in person on election day. You lost because
>you didn't connect with the voters, didn't get your message out, and
>flat out ran a lousy campaign. Just ask Hillary.
Another reason is that you failed to get your partisans out to vote.
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>Hey losing candidate. You didn't lose because lots and lots of
>fraudulent votes were cast in person on election day. You lost because
>you didn't connect with the voters, didn't get your message out, and
>flat out ran a lousy campaign. Just ask Hillary.
If somebody is strongly 'leaning your way' but doesn't bother to get
to the polling station on election day that's a vote lost.
Don't know if it's true but 2016 was said to be one of the worst in
the last 30 years for the Democrats in 'getting the vote out' and
obviously they did much better in 2020.
Hey Trump got 11-12 million MORE votes in 2020 than 2016 but the voter
turnout went from 56% -> 66% which is a huge improvement but still
lower than most of America's allies, despite the amazing amounts US
parties spend on election ads - they do better spending more time and
effort in canvassing then pushing hard to get their supporters out on
election day. From the numbers that looks like what Biden's people did
do.
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 13, 2022, 8:59:49 PM1/13/22
to
The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>Thu, 13 Jan 2022 06:07:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>Hey losing candidate. You didn't lose because lots and lots of
>>fraudulent votes were cast in person on election day. You lost because
>>you didn't connect with the voters, didn't get your message out, and
>>flat out ran a lousy campaign. Just ask Hillary.
>Another reason is that you failed to get your partisans out to vote.
>If somebody is strongly 'leaning your way' but doesn't bother to get
>to the polling station on election day that's a vote lost.
Absolutely right.
>Don't know if it's true but 2016 was said to be one of the worst in
>the last 30 years for the Democrats in 'getting the vote out' and
>obviously they did much better in 2020.
That exactly accounts for Hillary's loss.
>Hey Trump got 11-12 million MORE votes in 2020 than 2016 but the voter
>turnout went from 56% -> 66% which is a huge improvement but still
>lower than most of America's allies, despite the amazing amounts US
>parties spend on election ads - they do better spending more time and
>effort in canvassing then pushing hard to get their supporters out on
>election day. From the numbers that looks like what Biden's people did
>do.
Sure. Campaigning 101.
>Thu, 13 Jan 2022 06:07:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>Hey losing candidate. You didn't lose because lots and lots of
>>fraudulent votes were cast in person on election day. You lost because
>>you didn't connect with the voters, didn't get your message out, and
>>flat out ran a lousy campaign. Just ask Hillary.
>Another reason is that you failed to get your partisans out to vote.
>If somebody is strongly 'leaning your way' but doesn't bother to get
>to the polling station on election day that's a vote lost.
>Don't know if it's true but 2016 was said to be one of the worst in
>the last 30 years for the Democrats in 'getting the vote out' and
>obviously they did much better in 2020.
>Hey Trump got 11-12 million MORE votes in 2020 than 2016 but the voter
>turnout went from 56% -> 66% which is a huge improvement but still
>lower than most of America's allies, despite the amazing amounts US
>parties spend on election ads - they do better spending more time and
>effort in canvassing then pushing hard to get their supporters out on
>election day. From the numbers that looks like what Biden's people did
>do.
trotsky
Jan 14, 2022, 2:24:11 AM1/14/22
to
but my freedoms!" crowd are being massive hypocrites as usual.
The Horny Goat
Jan 14, 2022, 10:10:32 AM1/14/22
to
On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 19:02:32 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
wrote:
>> As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
>> time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
>> RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
>
>The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
Which still does not demonstrate favoring slavery.
In any case, with suitable advertising how long do you think it would
take minority voters to obtain such ID?
I don't know if this is handled by the local department of motor
vehicles or some other agency but once it's introduced (which
presumably would be immediately after an election to give the maximum
opportunity to register) I would expect word to get around quickly.
I'm afraid I can't remember who posted it but one of our regulars
posted a video showing numberous black Angelenos reacting with anger
to a suggestion that they couldn't quickly locate the local DMV or any
other government office.
wrote:
>> As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
>> time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
>> RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
>
>The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
In any case, with suitable advertising how long do you think it would
take minority voters to obtain such ID?
I don't know if this is handled by the local department of motor
vehicles or some other agency but once it's introduced (which
presumably would be immediately after an election to give the maximum
opportunity to register) I would expect word to get around quickly.
I'm afraid I can't remember who posted it but one of our regulars
posted a video showing numberous black Angelenos reacting with anger
to a suggestion that they couldn't quickly locate the local DMV or any
other government office.
moviePig
Jan 14, 2022, 10:12:38 AM1/14/22
to
For me, the question is one of fundamental 'propriety'. I.e., in a
democracy, is it proper/ethical to dissuade one's political opposition
from voting? Though we do it routinely, I can't see canonizing it...
The Horny Goat
Jan 14, 2022, 10:18:43 AM1/14/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 01:59:45 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Don't know if it's true but 2016 was said to be one of the worst in
>>the last 30 years for the Democrats in 'getting the vote out' and
>>obviously they did much better in 2020.
>
>That exactly accounts for Hillary's loss.
>
>>Hey Trump got 11-12 million MORE votes in 2020 than 2016 but the voter
>>turnout went from 56% -> 66% which is a huge improvement but still
>>lower than most of America's allies, despite the amazing amounts US
>>parties spend on election ads - they do better spending more time and
>>effort in canvassing then pushing hard to get their supporters out on
>>election day. From the numbers that looks like what Biden's people did
>>do.
>
>Sure. Campaigning 101.
Well said.
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>Don't know if it's true but 2016 was said to be one of the worst in
>>the last 30 years for the Democrats in 'getting the vote out' and
>>obviously they did much better in 2020.
>
>That exactly accounts for Hillary's loss.
>
>>Hey Trump got 11-12 million MORE votes in 2020 than 2016 but the voter
>>turnout went from 56% -> 66% which is a huge improvement but still
>>lower than most of America's allies, despite the amazing amounts US
>>parties spend on election ads - they do better spending more time and
>>effort in canvassing then pushing hard to get their supporters out on
>>election day. From the numbers that looks like what Biden's people did
>>do.
>
>Sure. Campaigning 101.
I'm currently reading "Game Change: Obama and the Clintons, McCain and
Palin, and the Race of A Lifetime" which covers the 2008 campaign and
it says that one of the major differences between Obama in 2008 and
Clinton was that he was MUCH more comfortable calling the movers and
shakers in the Democratic party asking for their support. That for
some reason Clinton was rather reticent.
Which says to me that that's a lesson from 2008 Hillary failed to
learn for 2016 and no question it hurt her in both campaigns.
Every sales person knows you have to ask for the sale even if you're
stone cold certain the customer is itching to buy what you're selling.
A Friend
Jan 14, 2022, 10:38:58 AM1/14/22
to
In article <ak43ug5gr9fd4vdg5...@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
Yes. This.
Not at all the same thing, but in my senior year of high school, a guy
I'd known since I was four was running for class president. He was
meeting and greeting in a hallway as I passed by, and he told me, oh, I
don't have to ask you for your vote. Oh, really? I wound up voting
for some other guy. This would probably surprise him if he were to
read it here.
Everybody likes to be asked.
Not at all the same thing, but in my senior year of high school, a guy
I'd known since I was four was running for class president. He was
meeting and greeting in a hallway as I passed by, and he told me, oh, I
don't have to ask you for your vote. Oh, really? I wound up voting
for some other guy. This would probably surprise him if he were to
read it here.
Everybody likes to be asked.
suzeeq
Jan 14, 2022, 11:11:56 AM1/14/22
to
though....
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 14, 2022, 11:45:51 AM1/14/22
to
The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 19:02:32 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
>>>time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
>>>RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
>>The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>Which still does not demonstrate favoring slavery.
He's wrong, anyway. There are no statistics to that effect. Several
>>>As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
>>>time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
>>>RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
>>The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>Which still does not demonstrate favoring slavery.
states have been trying to purge voting roles of those who haven't voted
in a number of years. As long as there is a procedure to re-instate
yourself at the polls, it's not going to slash and purge.
There will be a handful of voters who for some reason are not listed on
official government databases who would be unfairly disenfranchise not
having actually moved. This is why I oppose Voter ID at the polls. But
disenfranchise enough voters to change the results of an election?
moviePig is deluded.
>. . .
Ed Stasiak
Jan 14, 2022, 1:12:29 PM1/14/22
to
> The Horny Goat
in line for over an hour) its never taken me more then 10-15 mins
to vote.
But then I live in the ‘burbs, not the city Detroit, world renown for
its governmental incompetence at all levels…
>
> No question Canadian election line ups are shorter but then with
> separate federal provincial and municipal elections, this is hardly
> surprising. My ballot last September had 5 or 6 candidates and I was
> in and out in 20-30 minutes which is longer than usual but they were
> being strict on Covid protocols so the line was longer than usual.
Other then the 2016 presidential election, (where I was standing
> No question Canadian election line ups are shorter but then with
> separate federal provincial and municipal elections, this is hardly
> surprising. My ballot last September had 5 or 6 candidates and I was
> in and out in 20-30 minutes which is longer than usual but they were
> being strict on Covid protocols so the line was longer than usual.
in line for over an hour) its never taken me more then 10-15 mins
to vote.
But then I live in the ‘burbs, not the city Detroit, world renown for
its governmental incompetence at all levels…
Ed Stasiak
Jan 14, 2022, 1:23:53 PM1/14/22
to
> trotsky
> > moviePig
down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
of Americans have valid legal ID.
The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
valid legal ID.
> It's more than that, it's a fundamental American right, so the "but but
> but my freedoms!" crowd are being massive hypocrites as usual.
Speaking of massive hypocrites, you're cool with literal FBI background
checks and assloaods of other restrictions (many of which require a
straight-up payment) on American’s fundamental human right to keep
and bear arms.
> > moviePig
> >
> > The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
> > voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
> > damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
> > The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
> > voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
> > damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
of Americans have valid legal ID.
The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
valid legal ID.
> It's more than that, it's a fundamental American right, so the "but but
> but my freedoms!" crowd are being massive hypocrites as usual.
checks and assloaods of other restrictions (many of which require a
straight-up payment) on American’s fundamental human right to keep
and bear arms.
BTR1701
Jan 14, 2022, 2:34:31 PM1/14/22
to
Ed Stasiak <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> trotsky
>>> moviePig
>>>
>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>
> Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
> down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
> of Americans have valid legal ID.
>
> The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
> valid legal ID.
Especially with all these Wuhan Flu vaccine passport schemes popping up all
>> trotsky
>>> moviePig
>>>
>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>
> Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
> down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
> of Americans have valid legal ID.
>
> The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
> valid legal ID.
over the country.
It's amazing how the same people who claim that requiring an ID to vote
somehow suppresses the black vote also have no problem with requiring those
same blacks to show an ID to eat at a restaurant or go to a movie or enter
a government building or do basically any other activity common to normal
life in America.
I don't know how they can go through life with that kind of cognitive
dissonance constantly buzzing around in their heads.
Rhino
Jan 14, 2022, 2:44:27 PM1/14/22
to
of whites at Berkeley insisting that blacks would have trouble getting
ID followed by blacks baffled at why that would be a problem - and
posted it here, probably to support a post of BTRs. The video I posted
showed blacks in NYC - Harlem specifically - not Angelenos but perhaps
you just misremembered that detail.
Here's the link again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW2LpFkVfYk [less
than 5 minutes]
Poor ol' FPP really floundered in trying to rebut this video!
--
Rhino
shawn
Jan 14, 2022, 3:03:06 PM1/14/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 13:34:22 -0600, BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
>Ed Stasiak <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> trotsky
>>>> moviePig
>>>>
>>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>>
>> Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
>> down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
>> of Americans have valid legal ID.
>>
>> The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
>> valid legal ID.
>
>Especially with all these Wuhan Flu vaccine passport schemes popping up all
>over the country.
>
>It's amazing how the same people who claim that requiring an ID to vote
>somehow suppresses the black vote also have no problem with requiring those
>same blacks to show an ID to eat at a restaurant or go to a movie or enter
>a government building or do basically any other activity common to normal
>life in America.
What world do you live in where that is normal? I've never shown an ID
to eat at any place, or go to a movie or anything other than if I
wanted to buy alcohol or get stopped by the cops.
wrote:
>Ed Stasiak <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> trotsky
>>>> moviePig
>>>>
>>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>>
>> Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
>> down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
>> of Americans have valid legal ID.
>>
>> The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
>> valid legal ID.
>
>Especially with all these Wuhan Flu vaccine passport schemes popping up all
>over the country.
>
>It's amazing how the same people who claim that requiring an ID to vote
>somehow suppresses the black vote also have no problem with requiring those
>same blacks to show an ID to eat at a restaurant or go to a movie or enter
>a government building or do basically any other activity common to normal
>life in America.
to eat at any place, or go to a movie or anything other than if I
wanted to buy alcohol or get stopped by the cops.
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 14, 2022, 3:29:45 PM1/14/22
to
breakfast at a restaurant she likes. She had had to fast for the blood
draw. They had signs up requiring us to show vaccination record cards
with picture IDs for verification per local ordinance but the restaurant
didn't enforce it.
City of Chicago just copied New York on the proof of vaccine for
restaurants, bars, and gyms. Of course, it's just if you're seated.
Waiting inside the restaurant for takeout doesn't requiring proof.
shawn
Jan 14, 2022, 3:41:39 PM1/14/22
to
in Georgia it's basically same as in 2018 but with many people wearing
masks. Very few places will require proof of vaccination other than
special event locations.
moviePig
Jan 14, 2022, 3:49:02 PM1/14/22
to
On 1/14/2022 1:23 PM, Ed Stasiak wrote:
>> trotsky
>>> moviePig
>>>
>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>
> Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
> down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
> of Americans have valid legal ID.
>
> The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
> valid legal ID.
>
>> ...
>> trotsky
>>> moviePig
>>>
>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>
> Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
> down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
> of Americans have valid legal ID.
>
> The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
> valid legal ID.
>
Okay, why do *YOU* think the GOP is hell-bent for voter-IDs? Do you
really think it's to prevent "voter fraud"?
BTR1701
Jan 14, 2022, 4:23:34 PM1/14/22
to
have to show your vax card plus a picture ID to do just about anything.
But somehow requiring blacks to do that isn't racist while requiring them
to show the same ID at the polls is.
BTR1701
Jan 14, 2022, 4:23:35 PM1/14/22
to
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
the vax card + ID requirement? What kind of official ID does a 10-year-old
have?
anim8rfsk
Jan 14, 2022, 4:25:01 PM1/14/22
to
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
made up for seeing the medical vampires. Even if it was just Denny’s.
Especially if it was someplace new.
--
“The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on my list.”
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 14, 2022, 4:29:16 PM1/14/22
to
has a driver's license. You gonna get the kid a state non-driver ID just
to verify the name on the vaccination record card?
trotsky
Jan 14, 2022, 5:08:55 PM1/14/22
to
trotsky
Jan 14, 2022, 5:20:48 PM1/14/22
to
On 1/14/2022 1:34 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> Ed Stasiak <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> trotsky
>>>> moviePig
>>>>
>>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>>
>> Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
>> down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
>> of Americans have valid legal ID.
>>
>> The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
>> valid legal ID.
>
> Especially with all these Wuhan Flu vaccine passport schemes popping up all
> over the country.
>
> It's amazing how the same people who claim that requiring an ID to vote
> somehow suppresses the black vote also have no problem with requiring those
> same blacks to show an ID to eat at a restaurant
Yes, if you're a Republican that can't get elected legitimately you look
> Ed Stasiak <edstas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> trotsky
>>>> moviePig
>>>>
>>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>>
>> Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
>> down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
>> of Americans have valid legal ID.
>>
>> The fact is, you pretty much can't function in modern society without
>> valid legal ID.
>
> Especially with all these Wuhan Flu vaccine passport schemes popping up all
> over the country.
>
> It's amazing how the same people who claim that requiring an ID to vote
> somehow suppresses the black vote also have no problem with requiring those
> same blacks to show an ID to eat at a restaurant
at voting like it's a disease just like Covid. You stupid fucking
bastard, you're too stupid to know how fucked you just made yourself look.
RichA
Jan 14, 2022, 5:29:41 PM1/14/22
to
On Wednesday, 12 January 2022 at 21:59:59 UTC-5, weary flake wrote:
> Members of our media monopoly never differ with each other on the matter of
> election integrity nor any other subject and they have unanimously declared
> that to require picture ID for voting in the USA is the "moral equivalent of murder".
> Here's a countering statement the judge and jury at The New York Times, CBS,
> AT&T, Comcast, Disney, NBC, PBS, Zuckerberg, Larry Page and the whole gang wants
> to make illegal:
>
> from October 2021:
>
> https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/ensuring-election-integrity-anti-democratic/
>
> Sixteen years ago, in 2005, the Carter-Baker Commission on
> Federal Election Reform issued a report that proposed a uniform
> system of requiring a photo ID in order to vote in U.S.
> elections. The report also pointed out that widespread absentee
> voting makes vote fraud more likely. Voter files contain
> ineligible, duplicate, fictional, and deceased voters, a fact
> easily exploited using absentee ballots to commit fraud. Citizens
> who vote absentee are more susceptible to pressure and
> intimidation. And vote-buying schemes are far easier when
> citizens vote by mail.
>
> Who was behind the Carter-Baker Commission? Donald Trump? No. The
> Commission’s two ranking members were former President Jimmy
> Carter, a Democrat, and former Secretary of State James Baker
> III, a Republican. Other Democrats on the Commission were former
> Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and former Indiana Congressman
> Lee Hamilton. It was a truly bipartisan commission that made what
> seemed at the time to be common sense proposals.
>
> How things have changed. Some of the Commission’s members, Jimmy
> Carter among them, came out last year to disavow the Commission’s
> work. And despite surveys showing that Americans overwhelmingly
> support measures to ensure election integrity—a recent Rasmussen
> survey found that 80 percent of Americans support a voter ID
> requirement—Democratic leaders across the board oppose such
> measures in the strongest terms.
> unfolding assault taking place in America today—an attempt to
> democracies in not requiring voter ID. Of the 47 countries in
> Europe today, 46 of them currently require government-issued
> photo IDs to vote. The odd man out is the United Kingdom, in
> which Northern Ireland and many localities require voter IDs, but
> the requirement is not nationwide. The British Parliament,
> however, is considering a nationwide requirement, so very soon
> all 47 European countries will likely have adopted this
> common-sense policy.
>
> When it comes to absentee voting, we Americans, accustomed as we
> are to very loose rules, are often shocked to learn that 35 of
> the 47 European countries—including France, Italy, the
> Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden—don’t allow absentee voting for
> citizens living in country. Another ten European
> countries—including England, Ireland, Denmark, Portugal, and
> Spain—allow absentee voting, but require voters to show up in
> person and present a photo ID to pick up their ballots. It isn’t
> like in the U.S., where a person can say he’s going to be out of
> town and have a ballot mailed to him.
>
> England used to have absentee voting rules similar to ours in the
> U.S. But in 2004, in the city of Birmingham, officials uncovered
> a massive vote fraud scheme in the city council races. The six
> winning Labor candidates had fraudulently acquired about 40,000
> absentee votes, mainly from Muslim areas of the city. As a
> result, England ended the practice of mailing out absentee
> ballots and required voters to pick up their ballots in person
> with a photo ID.
>
> Up until 1975, France also had loose absentee voting rules. But
> when massive vote fraud was discovered on the island of
> Corsica—where hundreds of thousands of dead people were found to
> be voting and even larger-scale vote-buying operations were
> occurring—France banned absentee voting altogether.
>
> On the topic of buying votes, I should point out that we in the
> U.S. did not always have secret ballots. It wasn’t until 1880
> that the first state adopted the secret ballot, and the last
> state to adopt it was South Carolina in 1950. Perhaps
> surprisingly, when secret ballots were adopted, the percentage of
> people voting fell by about twelve percent. Why was that? Prior
> to the adoption of the secret ballot, lots of people would get
> paid for voting. In those days, people voted by placing pieces of
> colored paper in the ballot box, with different colors
> representing different parties. Party officials would be present
> to observe what color paper each voter put into the box, and
> depending on the color, the voter would often get paid. Secret
> ballots put an end to this practice.
>
> France learned in 1975 that the use of absentee ballots led to
> the same practice—it allowed third parties to know how people
> voted and pay them for voting a certain way. This same problem is
> now proliferating in the U.S. in the form of “ballot harvesting,”
> the increasingly common practice where party functionaries
> distribute and collect ballots.
>
> Defenders of our current voting rules point out that in lieu of
> absentee voting, some European countries allow “proxy voting,”
> whereby one person can designate another to vote for him. And
> while it is true that eight of the 47 European countries allow
> proxy voting—meaning that 39 do not—there are strict
> requirements. In five of the eight countries—Belgium, England,
> Monaco, Poland, and Sweden—proxy voting is limited to those with
> a disability or an illness or who are out of the country. In
> Poland, it also requires the approval of the local mayor, and in
> Monaco the approval of the general secretariat. In France and the
> Netherlands, proxy voting has to be arranged through a notary
> public. Switzerland is the only country in Europe with a
> relatively liberal proxy voting policy, requiring only a
> signature match.
> its leaders were concerned about a drop in foreign investment if
> it wasn’t perceived to be a legitimate democracy, Mexico recently
> instituted strict reforms. Voters must present a biometric ID—an
> ID with not only a photo, but also a thumb print. Voters also
> have indelible ink applied to their thumbs, preventing them from
> voting more than once. And absentee voting is prohibited, even
> for people living outside the country.
>
> Those who oppose election integrity reform here in the U.S. often
> condemn it as a means of “voter suppression.” But in Mexico, the
> percent of people voting rose from 59 percent before the reforms
> to 68 percent after. It turned out that Mexicans were more, not
> less, likely to vote when they had confidence that their votes
> mattered.
>
> H.R. 1, the radical bill Democratic Party leaders have been
> pushing to adopt this year, would prohibit states from requiring
> voter ID and require states to allow permanent mail-in voting.
> And mail-in voting, I hardly need to point out, is even worse, in
> terms of vote fraud, than absentee voting. With absentee voting,
> a person at least has to request a ballot. With mail-in voting—as
> we saw in too many places in the 2020 election—ballots are simply
> mailed out to everyone. With loose absentee voting rules, a
> country is making itself vulnerable to vote fraud. With mail-in
> voting, a country is almost begging for vote fraud.
>
> If the rhetoric we hear from the Left today is correct—if voter
> ID requirements and restrictions on absentee (or even mail-in)
> voting are un-democratic -- then so are the countries of Europe and
> the rest of the developed world. But this is utter nonsense.
>
> Those opposing common sense measures to ensure integrity in U.S.
> elections—measures such as those recommended by the bipartisan
> Carter-Baker Commission in 2005—are not motivated by a concern
> for democracy, but by partisan interests.
Even if requiring I.D. means disenfranchising some potential voters, do they really want these people choosing?
> Members of our media monopoly never differ with each other on the matter of
> election integrity nor any other subject and they have unanimously declared
> that to require picture ID for voting in the USA is the "moral equivalent of murder".
> Here's a countering statement the judge and jury at The New York Times, CBS,
> AT&T, Comcast, Disney, NBC, PBS, Zuckerberg, Larry Page and the whole gang wants
> to make illegal:
>
> from October 2021:
>
> https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/ensuring-election-integrity-anti-democratic/
>
> Sixteen years ago, in 2005, the Carter-Baker Commission on
> Federal Election Reform issued a report that proposed a uniform
> system of requiring a photo ID in order to vote in U.S.
> elections. The report also pointed out that widespread absentee
> voting makes vote fraud more likely. Voter files contain
> ineligible, duplicate, fictional, and deceased voters, a fact
> easily exploited using absentee ballots to commit fraud. Citizens
> who vote absentee are more susceptible to pressure and
> intimidation. And vote-buying schemes are far easier when
> citizens vote by mail.
>
> Who was behind the Carter-Baker Commission? Donald Trump? No. The
> Commission’s two ranking members were former President Jimmy
> Carter, a Democrat, and former Secretary of State James Baker
> III, a Republican. Other Democrats on the Commission were former
> Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and former Indiana Congressman
> Lee Hamilton. It was a truly bipartisan commission that made what
> seemed at the time to be common sense proposals.
>
> How things have changed. Some of the Commission’s members, Jimmy
> Carter among them, came out last year to disavow the Commission’s
> work. And despite surveys showing that Americans overwhelmingly
> support measures to ensure election integrity—a recent Rasmussen
> survey found that 80 percent of Americans support a voter ID
> requirement—Democratic leaders across the board oppose such
> measures in the strongest terms.
>
> Here, for instance, is President Biden speaking recently in
> Philadelphia, condemning the idea of voter IDs: “There is an
> Here, for instance, is President Biden speaking recently in
> unfolding assault taking place in America today—an attempt to
> suppress and subvert the right to vote in fair and free
> elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an
> assault on who we are—who we are as Americans. For, make no
> elections, an assault on democracy, an assault on liberty, an
> mistake, bullies and merchants of fear and peddlers of lies are
> threatening the very foundation of our country.” Sadly but
> predicably, he went on to suggest that requiring voter IDs would
> mean returning people to slavery.
>
> But the fact is that the U.S. is an outlier among the world’s
> mean returning people to slavery.
>
> democracies in not requiring voter ID. Of the 47 countries in
> Europe today, 46 of them currently require government-issued
> photo IDs to vote. The odd man out is the United Kingdom, in
> which Northern Ireland and many localities require voter IDs, but
> the requirement is not nationwide. The British Parliament,
> however, is considering a nationwide requirement, so very soon
> all 47 European countries will likely have adopted this
> common-sense policy.
>
> When it comes to absentee voting, we Americans, accustomed as we
> are to very loose rules, are often shocked to learn that 35 of
> the 47 European countries—including France, Italy, the
> Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden—don’t allow absentee voting for
> citizens living in country. Another ten European
> countries—including England, Ireland, Denmark, Portugal, and
> Spain—allow absentee voting, but require voters to show up in
> person and present a photo ID to pick up their ballots. It isn’t
> like in the U.S., where a person can say he’s going to be out of
> town and have a ballot mailed to him.
>
> England used to have absentee voting rules similar to ours in the
> U.S. But in 2004, in the city of Birmingham, officials uncovered
> a massive vote fraud scheme in the city council races. The six
> winning Labor candidates had fraudulently acquired about 40,000
> absentee votes, mainly from Muslim areas of the city. As a
> result, England ended the practice of mailing out absentee
> ballots and required voters to pick up their ballots in person
> with a photo ID.
>
> Up until 1975, France also had loose absentee voting rules. But
> when massive vote fraud was discovered on the island of
> Corsica—where hundreds of thousands of dead people were found to
> be voting and even larger-scale vote-buying operations were
> occurring—France banned absentee voting altogether.
>
> On the topic of buying votes, I should point out that we in the
> U.S. did not always have secret ballots. It wasn’t until 1880
> that the first state adopted the secret ballot, and the last
> state to adopt it was South Carolina in 1950. Perhaps
> surprisingly, when secret ballots were adopted, the percentage of
> people voting fell by about twelve percent. Why was that? Prior
> to the adoption of the secret ballot, lots of people would get
> paid for voting. In those days, people voted by placing pieces of
> colored paper in the ballot box, with different colors
> representing different parties. Party officials would be present
> to observe what color paper each voter put into the box, and
> depending on the color, the voter would often get paid. Secret
> ballots put an end to this practice.
>
> France learned in 1975 that the use of absentee ballots led to
> the same practice—it allowed third parties to know how people
> voted and pay them for voting a certain way. This same problem is
> now proliferating in the U.S. in the form of “ballot harvesting,”
> the increasingly common practice where party functionaries
> distribute and collect ballots.
>
> Defenders of our current voting rules point out that in lieu of
> absentee voting, some European countries allow “proxy voting,”
> whereby one person can designate another to vote for him. And
> while it is true that eight of the 47 European countries allow
> proxy voting—meaning that 39 do not—there are strict
> requirements. In five of the eight countries—Belgium, England,
> Monaco, Poland, and Sweden—proxy voting is limited to those with
> a disability or an illness or who are out of the country. In
> Poland, it also requires the approval of the local mayor, and in
> Monaco the approval of the general secretariat. In France and the
> Netherlands, proxy voting has to be arranged through a notary
> public. Switzerland is the only country in Europe with a
> relatively liberal proxy voting policy, requiring only a
> signature match.
>
> How about our neighbors, Canada and Mexico? Canada requires a
> photo ID to vote. If a voter shows up at the polls without an ID,
> he is allowed to vote only if he declares who he is in writing
> and if there is someone working at the polling station who can
> personally verify his identity.
>
> Mexico has had a long history of election fraud. Partly because
> How about our neighbors, Canada and Mexico? Canada requires a
> photo ID to vote. If a voter shows up at the polls without an ID,
> he is allowed to vote only if he declares who he is in writing
> and if there is someone working at the polling station who can
> personally verify his identity.
>
> its leaders were concerned about a drop in foreign investment if
> it wasn’t perceived to be a legitimate democracy, Mexico recently
> instituted strict reforms. Voters must present a biometric ID—an
> ID with not only a photo, but also a thumb print. Voters also
> have indelible ink applied to their thumbs, preventing them from
> voting more than once. And absentee voting is prohibited, even
> for people living outside the country.
>
> Those who oppose election integrity reform here in the U.S. often
> condemn it as a means of “voter suppression.” But in Mexico, the
> percent of people voting rose from 59 percent before the reforms
> to 68 percent after. It turned out that Mexicans were more, not
> less, likely to vote when they had confidence that their votes
> mattered.
>
> H.R. 1, the radical bill Democratic Party leaders have been
> pushing to adopt this year, would prohibit states from requiring
> voter ID and require states to allow permanent mail-in voting.
> And mail-in voting, I hardly need to point out, is even worse, in
> terms of vote fraud, than absentee voting. With absentee voting,
> a person at least has to request a ballot. With mail-in voting—as
> we saw in too many places in the 2020 election—ballots are simply
> mailed out to everyone. With loose absentee voting rules, a
> country is making itself vulnerable to vote fraud. With mail-in
> voting, a country is almost begging for vote fraud.
>
> If the rhetoric we hear from the Left today is correct—if voter
> ID requirements and restrictions on absentee (or even mail-in)
> voting are un-democratic -- then so are the countries of Europe and
> the rest of the developed world. But this is utter nonsense.
>
> Those opposing common sense measures to ensure integrity in U.S.
> elections—measures such as those recommended by the bipartisan
> Carter-Baker Commission in 2005—are not motivated by a concern
> for democracy, but by partisan interests.
Even if requiring I.D. means disenfranchising some potential voters, do they really want these people choosing?
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 14, 2022, 5:47:00 PM1/14/22
to
RichA <rande...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Even if requiring I.D. means disenfranchising some potential voters, do
>they really want these people choosing?
Go fuck yourself, Rich, and your "papers please" mentality. If the
>Even if requiring I.D. means disenfranchising some potential voters, do
>they really want these people choosing?
voter's name and address on the voting rolls are correct, and he was
properly registered to vote to begin with, then he's a voter, period,
and gets to vote.
moviePig
Jan 14, 2022, 6:10:26 PM1/14/22
to
On 1/14/2022 5:29 PM, RichA wrote:
> ...
> ...
>
> Even if requiring I.D. means disenfranchising some potential voters, do they really want these people choosing?
No, only some sort of democracy freak could want that.
> Even if requiring I.D. means disenfranchising some potential voters, do they really want these people choosing?
trotsky
Jan 14, 2022, 7:56:37 PM1/14/22
to
On 1/14/2022 9:12 AM, moviePig wrote:
> On 1/14/2022 2:24 AM, trotsky wrote:
>> On 1/13/2022 6:02 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 1/13/2022 6:46 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>
>>>> As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
>>>> time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
>>>> RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
>>>
>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>>
>> It's more than that, it's a fundamental American right, so the "but
>> but but my freedoms!" crowd are being massive hypocrites as usual.
>
> But opponents can argue that no one's right to vote is being abrogated.
They can argue that if they want to then be identified as full of shit.
> On 1/14/2022 2:24 AM, trotsky wrote:
>> On 1/13/2022 6:02 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 1/13/2022 6:46 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>
>>>> As for slavery nobody's told me to 'tote that bale' in a VERY long
>>>> time (I think it was during high school when our group sang "Old Man
>>>> RIver" which is probably now cancelled as well)
>>>
>>> The voter-ID is a proposal that will -- deliberately -- slash black
>>> voter rolls. One can argue (as indeed many do) that "It's their own
>>> damn fault!", but, as the saying goes, that's putting lipstick on a pig.
>>
>> It's more than that, it's a fundamental American right, so the "but
>> but but my freedoms!" crowd are being massive hypocrites as usual.
>
> But opponents can argue that no one's right to vote is being abrogated.
Ed Stasiak
Jan 15, 2022, 8:49:23 AM1/15/22
to
> moviePig
> > Ed Stasiak
also hell bent on preventing Black-Americans from voting.
> > Ed Stasiak
> >
> > Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
> > down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
> > of Americans have valid legal ID.
>
> > Absolute nonsense. Other then drug-addled kooks living in tents
> > down the road from BTR1701s house, the overwhelming majority
> > of Americans have valid legal ID.
>
> Okay, why do *YOU* think the GOP is hell-bent for voter-IDs? Do you
> really think it's to prevent "voter fraud"?
Yes, unless you believe 47 European countries with voter ID laws are
> really think it's to prevent "voter fraud"?
also hell bent on preventing Black-Americans from voting.
Ed Stasiak
Jan 15, 2022, 8:50:11 AM1/15/22
to
> BTR1701
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/73ceb402-e8d7-472e-a3ca-17956d6d53a5_1.9a67f9b248df3193a9085906c5023fab.jpeg
>
> Since the vax passport applies to people as young as five, how do they meet
> the vax card + ID requirement? What kind of official ID does a 10-year-old
> have?
I've heard they've got electronic covid passports nowadays?…
> Since the vax passport applies to people as young as five, how do they meet
> the vax card + ID requirement? What kind of official ID does a 10-year-old
> have?
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/73ceb402-e8d7-472e-a3ca-17956d6d53a5_1.9a67f9b248df3193a9085906c5023fab.jpeg
moviePig
Jan 15, 2022, 10:35:47 AM1/15/22
to
The Horny Goat
Jan 15, 2022, 2:14:55 PM1/15/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:38:51 -0500, A Friend <no...@noway.com> wrote:
>Not at all the same thing, but in my senior year of high school, a guy
>I'd known since I was four was running for class president. He was
>meeting and greeting in a hallway as I passed by, and he told me, oh, I
>don't have to ask you for your vote. Oh, really? I wound up voting
>for some other guy. This would probably surprise him if he were to
>read it here.
>
>Everybody likes to be asked.
Of course they do. I ran unsuccessfully for class VP and made lots of
>Not at all the same thing, but in my senior year of high school, a guy
>I'd known since I was four was running for class president. He was
>meeting and greeting in a hallway as I passed by, and he told me, oh, I
>don't have to ask you for your vote. Oh, really? I wound up voting
>for some other guy. This would probably surprise him if he were to
>read it here.
>
>Everybody likes to be asked.
mistakes but definitely didn't make that one particularly with close
friends.
The Horny Goat
Jan 15, 2022, 2:24:53 PM1/15/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:45:46 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>He's wrong, anyway. There are no statistics to that effect. Several
>states have been trying to purge voting roles of those who haven't voted
>in a number of years. As long as there is a procedure to re-instate
>yourself at the polls, it's not going to slash and purge.
I've never heard of that but how could that be constitutional? On the
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>He's wrong, anyway. There are no statistics to that effect. Several
>states have been trying to purge voting roles of those who haven't voted
>in a number of years. As long as there is a procedure to re-instate
>yourself at the polls, it's not going to slash and purge.
other hand, if there is an enumeration and somebody's not listed that
could easily happen. 30 years ago my parents lost their vote when the
enumerator registered their downstairs parents (a newly married couple
who I'd known the wife since childhood) but failed to ask if anybody
else lived there - and missed my parents who at the time were out of
the country in AZ and didn't return until after the close of revisions
to the enumeration.
But then that would never happen to me since in my entire voting age
life I've only missed voting once - and that was when I was in the
midst of moving 1500 miles away 3 weeks after voting day and didn't
think I should be voting if I was going to be living elsewhere when
the winning candidate was sworn in.
>There will be a handful of voters who for some reason are not listed on
>official government databases who would be unfairly disenfranchise not
>having actually moved. This is why I oppose Voter ID at the polls. But
>disenfranchise enough voters to change the results of an election?
>moviePig is deluded.
the box authorizing the tax authorities to give the data to the
elections people), motor vehicle records, and several other federal
and provincial authorities.
Now this isn't foolproof - I once was on the list twice (once under my
full legal name and once under my middle name which is what I've gone
by from early childhood) After voting I asked for the person in charge
of the voting station, told them "this person won't be voting today
because he's me and I just voted" then showed him my ID which both
showed my full name and what name I normally went by. (i.e. my
driver's licence and my VISA card)
The Horny Goat
Jan 15, 2022, 2:46:36 PM1/15/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:03:00 -0500, shawn
<nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>It's amazing how the same people who claim that requiring an ID to vote
>>somehow suppresses the black vote also have no problem with requiring those
>>same blacks to show an ID to eat at a restaurant or go to a movie or enter
>>a government building or do basically any other activity common to normal
>>life in America.
>
>What world do you live in where that is normal? I've never shown an ID
>to eat at any place, or go to a movie or anything other than if I
>wanted to buy alcohol or get stopped by the cops.
>
We're in an area currently using vaccine passports which essentially
<nanof...@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>It's amazing how the same people who claim that requiring an ID to vote
>>somehow suppresses the black vote also have no problem with requiring those
>>same blacks to show an ID to eat at a restaurant or go to a movie or enter
>>a government building or do basically any other activity common to normal
>>life in America.
>
>What world do you live in where that is normal? I've never shown an ID
>to eat at any place, or go to a movie or anything other than if I
>wanted to buy alcohol or get stopped by the cops.
>
give your name and a VR code with your vaccine history. There's a
Chinese cafe I'm partial to and go every 1-2 weeks so they looked at
mine the first time after the edict but haven't done since. (Which got
interesting when I took my daughter from the UK there when she was
here in October as they asked for hers - which they DO use in the UK
though the waiter had never seen UK documents before) Which means in
practice that the unvaccinated are deprived on quite a few things two
years ago we would have taken for granted.
One thing that has just started was the local library is now demanding
"passports" which is a pain due to the time taken to whip it out.
They've been demanding masks for most of the year which is relatively
easy since there's nothing to check - one either is visibly wearing
one or not.
The Horny Goat
Jan 15, 2022, 2:48:41 PM1/15/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 20:29:41 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>City of Chicago just copied New York on the proof of vaccine for
>restaurants, bars, and gyms. Of course, it's just if you're seated.
>Waiting inside the restaurant for takeout doesn't requiring proof.
Hmmm. The local fish + chip place made me wait outside when I did my
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>City of Chicago just copied New York on the proof of vaccine for
>restaurants, bars, and gyms. Of course, it's just if you're seated.
>Waiting inside the restaurant for takeout doesn't requiring proof.
takeout order 2 weeks ago. I suppose I could have gone to my wallet
for my "passport"....as they're still doing eating in though have
removed about half the tables.
The Horny Goat
Jan 15, 2022, 2:52:55 PM1/15/22
to
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:48:57 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
wrote:
>Okay, why do *YOU* think the GOP is hell-bent for voter-IDs? Do you
>really think it's to prevent "voter fraud"?
Most of the acrimony in our area refers to new immigrants usually in
their first election where their English is often suspect. In one
riding they discovered a ring collecting voting cards where it was
demonstrated one person had voted 20+ times. We're talking at most 50
incidents in a city of 2 million but that's still bad news and no
question there have been cries of racism - but then on the other hand
there have ALSO been documented cases of social media "fake news" in
Chinese language web sites that have been traced to the PRC
wrote:
>Okay, why do *YOU* think the GOP is hell-bent for voter-IDs? Do you
>really think it's to prevent "voter fraud"?
their first election where their English is often suspect. In one
riding they discovered a ring collecting voting cards where it was
demonstrated one person had voted 20+ times. We're talking at most 50
incidents in a city of 2 million but that's still bad news and no
question there have been cries of racism - but then on the other hand
there have ALSO been documented cases of social media "fake news" in
Chinese language web sites that have been traced to the PRC
The Horny Goat
Jan 15, 2022, 2:55:42 PM1/15/22
to
the Canadian SSID) mostly because it's required for most education
savings plans. My son + wife expect to do the same for their child
(and for the same reason) who is due in May.
This is not however a picture ID. (I got mine as a teenager and the
physical card wore out long ago)
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 15, 2022, 3:05:30 PM1/15/22
to
The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:45:46 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>He's wrong, anyway. There are no statistics to that effect. Several
>>states have been trying to purge voting roles of those who haven't voted
>>in a number of years. As long as there is a procedure to re-instate
>>yourself at the polls, it's not going to slash and purge.
>I've never heard of that but how could that be constitutional?
Every so often, some newspaper tries to figure out how many registered
voters as listed on the register either died or moved away to take a cheap
shot at the county clerk for incompetance. Then people get horrified
that the register doesn't get updated and that the dead vote, etc.
An easy purge is to assume that anyone not voting regularly died or
moved. You send a letter that doesn't get forwarded asking someone to
reply to prove he's alive and still resident. If there's no reply, the
name is purged.
A better way to do it is to suspend but not purge the registration to
allow the person to reinstate his registration next time he votes in
person.
>On the
>other hand, if there is an enumeration and somebody's not listed that
>could easily happen. 30 years ago my parents lost their vote when the
>enumerator registered their downstairs parents (a newly married couple
>who I'd known the wife since childhood) but failed to ask if anybody
>else lived there - and missed my parents who at the time were out of
>the country in AZ and didn't return until after the close of revisions
>to the enumeration.
Fine. In the United States, the census registry is not used as the voter
register.
>>. . .
>Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:45:46 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>He's wrong, anyway. There are no statistics to that effect. Several
>>states have been trying to purge voting roles of those who haven't voted
>>in a number of years. As long as there is a procedure to re-instate
>>yourself at the polls, it's not going to slash and purge.
>I've never heard of that but how could that be constitutional?
voters as listed on the register either died or moved away to take a cheap
shot at the county clerk for incompetance. Then people get horrified
that the register doesn't get updated and that the dead vote, etc.
An easy purge is to assume that anyone not voting regularly died or
moved. You send a letter that doesn't get forwarded asking someone to
reply to prove he's alive and still resident. If there's no reply, the
name is purged.
A better way to do it is to suspend but not purge the registration to
allow the person to reinstate his registration next time he votes in
person.
>On the
>other hand, if there is an enumeration and somebody's not listed that
>could easily happen. 30 years ago my parents lost their vote when the
>enumerator registered their downstairs parents (a newly married couple
>who I'd known the wife since childhood) but failed to ask if anybody
>else lived there - and missed my parents who at the time were out of
>the country in AZ and didn't return until after the close of revisions
>to the enumeration.
register.
>>. . .
moviePig
Jan 15, 2022, 3:56:16 PM1/15/22
to
being pursued in the U.S. today almost solely to reduce the Lib turnout.
Ymmv on the acceptability of that motive and tactic.
anim8rfsk
Jan 15, 2022, 5:18:06 PM1/15/22
to
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
people and just make up the results they want.
shawn
Jan 15, 2022, 6:30:53 PM1/15/22
to
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:18:02 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net>
wrote:
It's not the Census Bureau fault that your postman is friends with
Pharmacy Girl and so sabotages all your mail deliveries.
wrote:
Pharmacy Girl and so sabotages all your mail deliveries.
BTR1701
Jan 15, 2022, 6:50:39 PM1/15/22
to
vote, too.
E.g., their relentless push for ballot harvesting, which throws the door
wide open for corruption and fraud and is therefore illegal in the vast
majority of states, but they're attempting to override those state laws
with their 'voting rights' act and make ballot harvesting legal nationwide
Then there's the indefatigable Democrat push to allow non-citizens to vote,
even as they throw open our border to hundreds of thousands of illegal
aliens.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/09/new-york-allows-non-citizens-vote-controversial-law
And for all their bitching and moaning about Republican gerrymandering, the
Democrats' own gerrymandering in this latest round of redistricting has
resulted in a greater net benefit for them than for Republicans. More seats
will either be retained as Democrat or switched from Republican to Democrat
than vice versa. Yet Republicans are supposedly the ones who are 'killing
democracy' with gerrymandering.
Rhino
Jan 15, 2022, 7:00:26 PM1/15/22
to
Mine is in rather mangled shape because it was made of a rather brittle
plastic that didn't stand the test of time; various corners have broken
off and there are large cracks in the card. I went to the local
government office a few years ago to replace it but got handed a form
advising me that they simply don't replace them any more. (That's not a
problem really since I memorized mine back when I first got it and still
haven't forgotten it.)
--
Rhino
anim8rfsk
Jan 15, 2022, 7:08:09 PM1/15/22
to
mine had disintegrated after being in my wallet for 50 years.
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 15, 2022, 7:13:03 PM1/15/22
to
BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>And for all their bitching and moaning about Republican gerrymandering, the
>Democrats' own gerrymandering in this latest round of redistricting has
>resulted in a greater net benefit for them than for Republicans. More seats
>will either be retained as Democrat or switched from Republican to Democrat
>than vice versa. Yet Republicans are supposedly the ones who are 'killing
>democracy' with gerrymandering.
At what level of government? That sure as hell isn't true for Congress.
>And for all their bitching and moaning about Republican gerrymandering, the
>Democrats' own gerrymandering in this latest round of redistricting has
>resulted in a greater net benefit for them than for Republicans. More seats
>will either be retained as Democrat or switched from Republican to Democrat
>than vice versa. Yet Republicans are supposedly the ones who are 'killing
>democracy' with gerrymandering.
BTR1701
Jan 15, 2022, 8:09:55 PM1/15/22
to
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 15, 2022, 10:11:50 PM1/15/22
to
Democratic in 2020. Republicans are gerrymandering, but good, except in
a handful of states like Iowa that has a nonpartisan method of drawing
maps. I'm rather confused as to how California's nonpartisan map making
isn't going too good.
With respect to state legislative districts, I'm not sure how that goes
a different way in the same state.
I was falling over with hysterics the other day after federal courts
declared my state's redistricting map in compliance with the Voting
Rights Act. Republicans did a smart play: They teamed up with Hispanic
interest groups to draw more majority Hispanic groups than the Democrats
had but it didn't persuade federal judges.
My token public policy Republican friend was telling me that his group
is trying to educate Republicans in competitive state house districts. I
laughed, saying we have no competitive districts. He said half of them
are, for a very generous definition of "competitive". Mapmakers know how
to redistrict to avoid competition.
A Friend
Jan 15, 2022, 10:21:14 PM1/15/22
to
In article
<313596729.663984197.25...@news.easynews.com>,
Mine is going on 60 and seems fine. I had to get it when I was in an
opera when I was a kid. The thieves.
<313596729.663984197.25...@news.easynews.com>,
opera when I was a kid. The thieves.
moviePig
Jan 15, 2022, 10:54:41 PM1/15/22
to
at its whim, I don't see how the framers in their wisdom could ever have
thought this gerrymandering insanity was less than inevitable. And I
*still* haven't heard a coherent proposal to replace it.
weary flake
Jan 16, 2022, 2:38:46 AM1/16/22
to
they are thick paper. That local office may have been wrong; was it a social
security office or some other agency? As far as I know all local social security
offices are closed.
weary flake
Jan 16, 2022, 3:27:15 AM1/16/22
to
On 1/12/22 10:07 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>> Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>> >from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>> impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>> in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>
>> Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>> or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>> insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>
> There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
> voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>
> The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
> to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>
The proposed law referred to is the banning of picture ID requirements
anywhere in the USA, which as far as I know is required in 3 states,
Louisiana, Hawaii and Colorado, there may be others, but my knowledge of
such is limited by the dumbing down of the same media that you take your
viewpoint from. Perhaps you support the proposed law as the media consensus
demands it and I don't recall you ever disagreeing with the media.
> Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
> appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
>
> Hey losing candidate. You didn't lose because lots and lots of
> fraudulent votes were cast in person on election day. You lost because
> you didn't connect with the voters, didn't get your message out, and
> flat out ran a lousy campaign. Just ask Hillary.
The media is lying to us when they say that only Republicans want Picture ID.
The media is lying to us about conditions in other countries and they lie about
us to other countries with the intention to keep us ignorant of others. CNN,
or rather the AT&T corporation, for example, is a politically powerful
organization and wise Europeans have condemned AT&T as anti-European:
this is in our mutual interest in the friendship between countries as AT&T
should also be condemned as anti-American.
> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>
>>>> . . .
>
>>> Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>> >from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>> impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>> in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>
>> Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>> or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>> insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>
> There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
> voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>
> The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
> to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>
The proposed law referred to is the banning of picture ID requirements
anywhere in the USA, which as far as I know is required in 3 states,
Louisiana, Hawaii and Colorado, there may be others, but my knowledge of
such is limited by the dumbing down of the same media that you take your
viewpoint from. Perhaps you support the proposed law as the media consensus
demands it and I don't recall you ever disagreeing with the media.
> Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
> appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
>
> Hey losing candidate. You didn't lose because lots and lots of
> fraudulent votes were cast in person on election day. You lost because
> you didn't connect with the voters, didn't get your message out, and
> flat out ran a lousy campaign. Just ask Hillary.
The media is lying to us when they say that only Republicans want Picture ID.
The media is lying to us about conditions in other countries and they lie about
us to other countries with the intention to keep us ignorant of others. CNN,
or rather the AT&T corporation, for example, is a politically powerful
organization and wise Europeans have condemned AT&T as anti-European:
this is in our mutual interest in the friendship between countries as AT&T
should also be condemned as anti-American.
trotsky
Jan 16, 2022, 5:18:22 AM1/16/22
to
On 1/15/2022 5:50 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>> On 1/15/2022 2:52 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:48:57 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay, why do *YOU* think the GOP is hell-bent for voter-IDs? Do you
>>>> really think it's to prevent "voter fraud"?
>>>
>>> Most of the acrimony in our area refers to new immigrants usually in
>>> their first election where their English is often suspect. In one
>>> riding they discovered a ring collecting voting cards where it was
>>> demonstrated one person had voted 20+ times. We're talking at most 50
>>> incidents in a city of 2 million but that's still bad news and no
>>> question there have been cries of racism - but then on the other hand
>>> there have ALSO been documented cases of social media "fake news" in
>>> Chinese language web sites that have been traced to the PRC
>>
>> I don't think there's much (honest) debate that voter-encumbrances are
>> being pursued in the U.S. today almost solely to reduce the Lib turnout.
>> Ymmv on the acceptability of that motive and tactic.
>
> And libs try to enact all sorts of shenanigans to reduce the Republican
> vote, too.
Wow, to hear you tell it you're a card carrying member of the Proud Boys
> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>> On 1/15/2022 2:52 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 15:48:57 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay, why do *YOU* think the GOP is hell-bent for voter-IDs? Do you
>>>> really think it's to prevent "voter fraud"?
>>>
>>> Most of the acrimony in our area refers to new immigrants usually in
>>> their first election where their English is often suspect. In one
>>> riding they discovered a ring collecting voting cards where it was
>>> demonstrated one person had voted 20+ times. We're talking at most 50
>>> incidents in a city of 2 million but that's still bad news and no
>>> question there have been cries of racism - but then on the other hand
>>> there have ALSO been documented cases of social media "fake news" in
>>> Chinese language web sites that have been traced to the PRC
>>
>> I don't think there's much (honest) debate that voter-encumbrances are
>> being pursued in the U.S. today almost solely to reduce the Lib turnout.
>> Ymmv on the acceptability of that motive and tactic.
>
> And libs try to enact all sorts of shenanigans to reduce the Republican
> vote, too.
who thinks the "Big Lie" and the insurrection were justified.
trotsky
Jan 16, 2022, 6:00:10 AM1/16/22
to
be participating in it. They in no way predicted the level of depravity
and corruption coming from the right. That's the work-around, do stuff
that harms rather than benefits the citizenry. Dems, getting an F- in
messaging, never talk about this.
moviePig
Jan 16, 2022, 10:26:56 AM1/16/22
to
infect entire swaths of legislators ...a naivete I can identify with.
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 16, 2022, 1:27:03 PM1/16/22
to
weary flake <weary...@gmail.com> wrote:
>. . . Perhaps you support the proposed law as the media consensus demands
>it and I don't recall you ever disagreeing with the media. . . .
Ah. Right for the straw man. Since you're making up my arguments, you
don't need my actual participation.
crap snip
>. . . Perhaps you support the proposed law as the media consensus demands
>it and I don't recall you ever disagreeing with the media. . . .
Ah. Right for the straw man. Since you're making up my arguments, you
don't need my actual participation.
crap snip
trotsky
Jan 16, 2022, 1:53:01 PM1/16/22
to
the American people. Income at high levels was taxed accordingly. The
GOP didn't have a lot to show for the 60s so Lee Atwater developed the
"southern strategy" and dogwhistle politics and it just went downhill
from there. Nixon is an obvious landmark for corruption. Reagan should
be too, but he began a trend in lack of accountability and lack of
justice in Washington. His illegal arms dealing should have resulted in
impeachment and/or indictment, but didn't. Bush Sr. was next, a guy who
helmed the CIA when assassinations were in vogue. But if you thought he
was bad, his shitbag son was even worse, turning over the reins to one
of the most corrupt people I've ever seen in the entire world, Dick
Cheney. Now look where we are, the GOP are swimming in a toilet bowl of
their own devising. Denny Hastert fucking young boys, Larry Craig
soliciting an ass fucking in a Minnesota airport, Gym Jordan enabling
more boys being sexually assaulted, Matt Gaetz illegally sex trafficking
and the list goes on and on. Trump came along and was at the absolute
bottom of the heap, the biggest piece of shit this country has ever
seen, so naturally a good portion of right wing fucking morons ate it
up, literally and/or figuratively. Don't even tell me Thomas Jefferson,
Ben Franklin and others could ever envision this gigantic pile of shit
the GOP has become. There's no way.
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 6:04:27 PM1/16/22
to
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:05:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>>Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:45:46 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>>Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:45:46 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>I've never heard of that but how could that be constitutional?
>
>Every so often, some newspaper tries to figure out how many registered
>voters as listed on the register either died or moved away to take a cheap
>shot at the county clerk for incompetance. Then people get horrified
>that the register doesn't get updated and that the dead vote, etc.
>
>An easy purge is to assume that anyone not voting regularly died or
>moved. You send a letter that doesn't get forwarded asking someone to
>reply to prove he's alive and still resident. If there's no reply, the
>name is purged.
But more than half the time the person who has moved has stayed in the
>
>Every so often, some newspaper tries to figure out how many registered
>voters as listed on the register either died or moved away to take a cheap
>shot at the county clerk for incompetance. Then people get horrified
>that the register doesn't get updated and that the dead vote, etc.
>
>An easy purge is to assume that anyone not voting regularly died or
>moved. You send a letter that doesn't get forwarded asking someone to
>reply to prove he's alive and still resident. If there's no reply, the
>name is purged.
same district.
As for the dead - I can't imagine expunging someone from the list
would be at all controversial. Surely all that would be required would
be a once a year listing of the deceased with their last known
addresses.
If an error is made and somebody turns up on voting day with proper ID
why would you deny them the vote? (I would never dream of going to
vote without ID but then it's the same ID I carry around every day -
driver's licence which has my address and my bank cards)
>A better way to do it is to suspend but not purge the registration to
>allow the person to reinstate his registration next time he votes in
>person.
>
>>On the
>>other hand, if there is an enumeration and somebody's not listed that
>>could easily happen. 30 years ago my parents lost their vote when the
>>enumerator registered their downstairs parents (a newly married couple
>>who I'd known the wife since childhood) but failed to ask if anybody
>>else lived there - and missed my parents who at the time were out of
>>the country in AZ and didn't return until after the close of revisions
>>to the enumeration.
>
>Fine. In the United States, the census registry is not used as the voter
>register.
the US the Canadian census is every 10 years so of limited use for the
voters' list. (Your censuses are in years ending in 0, ours in years
ending in 1 - I've no idea as to why but both have been that way for
150+ years)
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 6:06:23 PM1/16/22
to
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 15:56:11 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
wrote:
>I don't think there's much (honest) debate that voter-encumbrances are
>being pursued in the U.S. today almost solely to reduce the Lib turnout.
> Ymmv on the acceptability of that motive and tactic.
I've never heard of such 'encumbrances' being used to limit the
liberal turnout - the accusations have been about limiting the BLACK
vote which is a very different thing.
(And it is of course much easier to determine someone's race than
their politics if they don't actually tell you anyhow!)
wrote:
>I don't think there's much (honest) debate that voter-encumbrances are
>being pursued in the U.S. today almost solely to reduce the Lib turnout.
> Ymmv on the acceptability of that motive and tactic.
liberal turnout - the accusations have been about limiting the BLACK
vote which is a very different thing.
(And it is of course much easier to determine someone's race than
their politics if they don't actually tell you anyhow!)
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 6:10:27 PM1/16/22
to
>May as well given that they don’t actually deliver either form to the
>people and just make up the results they want.
On the last two Canadian censuses (2021 and 2011) I did mine online -
>people and just make up the results they want.
they have a 'short form' which takes about 5 minutes to fill out and
the 'long form' done by roughly 10% of the population each time round
which takes about 30-40 minutes to fill out. I got the short form in
2021 and the long form in 2011.
Neither is used for voting except to count heads for how many voters
in each district. (There IS a box on the Canadian income tax form
where by checking it you authorize the tax man to give your personal
information to the election authorities presumably for registration. I
didn't check it this year as I knew I was already registered and none
of my personal information had changed since the last election)
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 6:12:45 PM1/16/22
to
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:50:31 -0600, BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
>Then there's the indefatigable Democrat push to allow non-citizens to vote,
>even as they throw open our border to hundreds of thousands of illegal
>aliens.
So would organizations like Democrats Abroad register me to vote in US
elections?
wrote:
>Then there's the indefatigable Democrat push to allow non-citizens to vote,
>even as they throw open our border to hundreds of thousands of illegal
>aliens.
elections?
moviePig
Jan 16, 2022, 6:13:03 PM1/16/22
to
employ tactics that are de facto racist.
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 6:18:31 PM1/16/22
to
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 17:08:05 -0700, anim8rfsk <anim...@cox.net>
wrote:
>When I signed up for Social Security they gave me a new SSN card because
>mine had disintegrated after being in my wallet for 50 years.
Oh no question they'd issue me a new one if I applied for it but most
of the time if I really needed that level of ID I'd use my passport.
I've been filing my taxes faithfully for 30+ years without ever been
asked for anything but the number itself and that's firmly memorized
in these grey cells.
Incidentally, in Canada all citizens and people with permanent status
get a SIN number starting with 1-8 (which number says where your
original application was made which is my my wife's starts with 4 -
ON, whereas me and the kids all have numbers starting with 7 - BC). If
you are NOT a citizen but have a visa allowing you to work they issue
you one starting with 9.
We had a young Irish woman who was on a 2 year work visa who left us
shortly before the end of her visa and returned to Ireland. Great gal,
would definitely have kept her if we could. End result was that 3
months later we got a letter from Canada Immigration advising us that
she was no longer eligible to work in Canada which I binned as she was
already back in Dublin at that point!
wrote:
>When I signed up for Social Security they gave me a new SSN card because
>mine had disintegrated after being in my wallet for 50 years.
of the time if I really needed that level of ID I'd use my passport.
I've been filing my taxes faithfully for 30+ years without ever been
asked for anything but the number itself and that's firmly memorized
in these grey cells.
Incidentally, in Canada all citizens and people with permanent status
get a SIN number starting with 1-8 (which number says where your
original application was made which is my my wife's starts with 4 -
ON, whereas me and the kids all have numbers starting with 7 - BC). If
you are NOT a citizen but have a visa allowing you to work they issue
you one starting with 9.
We had a young Irish woman who was on a 2 year work visa who left us
shortly before the end of her visa and returned to Ireland. Great gal,
would definitely have kept her if we could. End result was that 3
months later we got a letter from Canada Immigration advising us that
she was no longer eligible to work in Canada which I binned as she was
already back in Dublin at that point!
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 6:24:25 PM1/16/22
to
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 22:21:09 -0500, A Friend <no...@noway.com> wrote:
>> When I signed up for Social Security they gave me a new SSN card because
>> mine had disintegrated after being in my wallet for 50 years.
>
>Mine is going on 60 and seems fine. I had to get it when I was in an
>opera when I was a kid. The thieves.
A lot of Canadian kids get theirs as infants as our version of the SSN
>> When I signed up for Social Security they gave me a new SSN card because
>> mine had disintegrated after being in my wallet for 50 years.
>
>Mine is going on 60 and seems fine. I had to get it when I was in an
>opera when I was a kid. The thieves.
is required for various government programs like registered education
plans.
My first grandchild is due in May and I expect my son and his wife
will duly register their tyke early when the time comes as I think
they know we're planning on such a plan fairly early.
(My mother and grandmother started one for him and his siblings way
back when as did we which ended up paying about 80% of their tuition
costs - and I'm pretty sure he knows that. Though he stayed away at
Christmas as my wife is unvaccinated and he's just as fanatical the
other way and I haven't seen him since and didn't want to deal with
this on the phone)
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 6:26:45 PM1/16/22
to
On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 23:38:36 -0800, weary flake <weary...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> They won't even replace SIN (Social Insurance Number) cards any more. Mine is in rather mangled shape because it was made of a rather brittle plastic that didn't stand the test of time; various corners have broken off and there are large cracks in the card. I went to the local government office a few years ago to replace it but got handed a form advising me that they simply don't replace them any more. (That's not a problem really since I memorized mine back when I first got it and still haven't forgotten it.)
>>
>
>They feds do replace lost social security cards. What plastic are you talking about,
>they are thick paper. That local office may have been wrong; was it a social
>security office or some other agency? As far as I know all local social security
>offices are closed.
What I was talking about was not a US SSN but a Canadian SIN and the
card was on plastic the size of a credit card but with plastic about
1/2 the thickness of your typical Visa/MC.
My card was badly cracked long before that nasty "C word" entered our
lives a little less than two years ago
wrote:
>
>> They won't even replace SIN (Social Insurance Number) cards any more. Mine is in rather mangled shape because it was made of a rather brittle plastic that didn't stand the test of time; various corners have broken off and there are large cracks in the card. I went to the local government office a few years ago to replace it but got handed a form advising me that they simply don't replace them any more. (That's not a problem really since I memorized mine back when I first got it and still haven't forgotten it.)
>>
>
>They feds do replace lost social security cards. What plastic are you talking about,
>they are thick paper. That local office may have been wrong; was it a social
>security office or some other agency? As far as I know all local social security
>offices are closed.
card was on plastic the size of a credit card but with plastic about
1/2 the thickness of your typical Visa/MC.
My card was badly cracked long before that nasty "C word" entered our
lives a little less than two years ago
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 6:30:36 PM1/16/22
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 10:26:51 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
wrote:
>> The framers set up this government believing that men of integrity would
>> be participating in it. They in no way predicted the level of depravity
>> and corruption coming from the right. That's the work-around, do stuff
>> that harms rather than benefits the citizenry. Dems, getting an F- in
>> messaging, never talk about this.
>
>The framers may have felt that such concerted corruption could never so
>infect entire swaths of legislators ...a naivete I can identify with.
What evidence do you have that the Founding Fathers were in any way
naive?
In fact several of them wrote with what seems to me to be cynicism
about human nature generally none more so than Franklin whose "Poor
Richard's" is chock full of cynicism about human nature.
While I seriously doubt the Founding Fathers contemplated an America
with the role in the world it has now when they wrote the key
documents 250 years ago, I have no doubt they understood the human
heart extremely well and that hasn't changed a bit.
wrote:
>> The framers set up this government believing that men of integrity would
>> be participating in it. They in no way predicted the level of depravity
>> and corruption coming from the right. That's the work-around, do stuff
>> that harms rather than benefits the citizenry. Dems, getting an F- in
>> messaging, never talk about this.
>
>The framers may have felt that such concerted corruption could never so
>infect entire swaths of legislators ...a naivete I can identify with.
naive?
In fact several of them wrote with what seems to me to be cynicism
about human nature generally none more so than Franklin whose "Poor
Richard's" is chock full of cynicism about human nature.
While I seriously doubt the Founding Fathers contemplated an America
with the role in the world it has now when they wrote the key
documents 250 years ago, I have no doubt they understood the human
heart extremely well and that hasn't changed a bit.
moviePig
Jan 16, 2022, 7:01:37 PM1/16/22
to
On 1/16/2022 6:30 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 10:26:51 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> The framers set up this government believing that men of integrity would
>>> be participating in it. They in no way predicted the level of depravity
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 10:26:51 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> The framers set up this government believing that men of integrity would
>>> and corruption coming from the right. That's the work-around, do stuff
>>> that harms rather than benefits the citizenry. Dems, getting an F- in
>>> messaging, never talk about this.
>>
>> The framers may have felt that such concerted corruption could never so
>> infect entire swaths of legislators ...a naivete I can identify with.
>
> What evidence do you have that the Founding Fathers were in any way
> naive?
>
> In fact several of them wrote with what seems to me to be cynicism
> about human nature generally none more so than Franklin whose "Poor
> Richard's" is chock full of cynicism about human nature.
>
> While I seriously doubt the Founding Fathers contemplated an America
> with the role in the world it has now when they wrote the key
> documents 250 years ago, I have no doubt they understood the human
> heart extremely well and that hasn't changed a bit.
The issue here is how the drawing of district lines was ever supposed to
>>
>> The framers may have felt that such concerted corruption could never so
>> infect entire swaths of legislators ...a naivete I can identify with.
>
> What evidence do you have that the Founding Fathers were in any way
> naive?
>
> In fact several of them wrote with what seems to me to be cynicism
> about human nature generally none more so than Franklin whose "Poor
> Richard's" is chock full of cynicism about human nature.
>
> While I seriously doubt the Founding Fathers contemplated an America
> with the role in the world it has now when they wrote the key
> documents 250 years ago, I have no doubt they understood the human
> heart extremely well and that hasn't changed a bit.
work. With our hindsight, it seems a Petri-dish for partisan corruption.
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 16, 2022, 8:08:32 PM1/16/22
to
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 16, 2022, 8:29:29 PM1/16/22
to
The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>Sat, 15 Jan 2022 20:05:27 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>>>Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:45:46 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>>I've never heard of that but how could that be constitutional?
>>Every so often, some newspaper tries to figure out how many registered
>>voters as listed on the register either died or moved away to take a cheap
>>shot at the county clerk for incompetance. Then people get horrified
>>that the register doesn't get updated and that the dead vote, etc.
>>An easy purge is to assume that anyone not voting regularly died or
>>moved. You send a letter that doesn't get forwarded asking someone to
>>reply to prove he's alive and still resident. If there's no reply, the
>>name is purged.
>But more than half the time the person who has moved has stayed in the
>same district.
We aren't talking about where someone moved to. If he moved, he's
>>>Fri, 14 Jan 2022 16:45:46 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>>I've never heard of that but how could that be constitutional?
>>Every so often, some newspaper tries to figure out how many registered
>>voters as listed on the register either died or moved away to take a cheap
>>shot at the county clerk for incompetance. Then people get horrified
>>that the register doesn't get updated and that the dead vote, etc.
>>An easy purge is to assume that anyone not voting regularly died or
>>moved. You send a letter that doesn't get forwarded asking someone to
>>reply to prove he's alive and still resident. If there's no reply, the
>>name is purged.
>But more than half the time the person who has moved has stayed in the
>same district.
obliged to notify the county clerk of his current residence.
>As for the dead - I can't imagine expunging someone from the list
>would be at all controversial. Surely all that would be required would
>be a once a year listing of the deceased with their last known
>addresses.
deceased registry but they find out only if someone dies in hospital or
a nursing home and the bill is sent to Medicare/Medicaid. Voting records
don't include Social Security Numbers so this registry cannot be
matched.
>If an error is made and somebody turns up on voting day with proper ID
>why would you deny them the vote?
the voter is supposed to be put into a suspense file but not purged in
case of error.
>>. . .
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 10:35:50 PM1/16/22
to
On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 18:12:58 -0500, moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com>
wrote:
>> (And it is of course much easier to determine someone's race than
>> their politics if they don't actually tell you anyhow!)
>
>Here, anyway, I'm not saying there's overt racism, just a willingness to
>employ tactics that are de facto racist.
Now THAT I might believe - it's the 'if the white guy gets out of bed
in the morning and puts on his socks before his shoes - that's a
racist act' mentality that makes people like me cuckoo!
wrote:
>> (And it is of course much easier to determine someone's race than
>> their politics if they don't actually tell you anyhow!)
>
>Here, anyway, I'm not saying there's overt racism, just a willingness to
>employ tactics that are de facto racist.
in the morning and puts on his socks before his shoes - that's a
racist act' mentality that makes people like me cuckoo!
The Horny Goat
Jan 16, 2022, 10:39:18 PM1/16/22
to
On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 01:29:25 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>If an error is made and somebody turns up on voting day with proper ID
>>why would you deny them the vote?
>
>As I said, there should be a reinstatement procedure. Under Motor Voter,
>the voter is supposed to be put into a suspense file but not purged in
>case of error.
When the above situation happened to my parents they were actually
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>>If an error is made and somebody turns up on voting day with proper ID
>>why would you deny them the vote?
>
>As I said, there should be a reinstatement procedure. Under Motor Voter,
>the voter is supposed to be put into a suspense file but not purged in
>case of error.
purged which rather surprised them after regularly voting on election
day for 25+ years. They knew when election day was and knew they would
be home by then so never dreamed there would be a problem.
(They're both now gone so I can't really ask them how it finally
worked out....)
A Friend
Jan 16, 2022, 10:53:36 PM1/16/22
to
In article <c1a9ugt1m90t8n74i...@4ax.com>, The Horny Goat
<lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 22:21:09 -0500, A Friend <no...@noway.com> wrote:
>
> >> When I signed up for Social Security they gave me a new SSN card because
> >> mine had disintegrated after being in my wallet for 50 years.
> >
> >Mine is going on 60 and seems fine. I had to get it when I was in an
> >opera when I was a kid. The thieves.
>
> A lot of Canadian kids get theirs as infants as our version of the SSN
> is required for various government programs like registered education
> plans.
I understand that now, in the U.S., SSNs are issued at birth.
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2022 22:21:09 -0500, A Friend <no...@noway.com> wrote:
>
> >> When I signed up for Social Security they gave me a new SSN card because
> >> mine had disintegrated after being in my wallet for 50 years.
> >
> >Mine is going on 60 and seems fine. I had to get it when I was in an
> >opera when I was a kid. The thieves.
>
> A lot of Canadian kids get theirs as infants as our version of the SSN
> is required for various government programs like registered education
> plans.
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 16, 2022, 11:20:12 PM1/16/22
to
A Friend wrote:
>I understand that now, in the U.S., SSNs are issued at birth.
They can be. There's a birth certificate application that simultaneously
>I understand that now, in the U.S., SSNs are issued at birth.
applies for the SSN. The reason is that IRS got pissed a couple of
decades back that there were massively more dependants claimed than the
census showed children in the country.
These days, any dependant claimed must be listed with the SSN.
A Friend
Jan 17, 2022, 7:48:53 AM1/17/22
to
The Horny Goat
Jan 17, 2022, 2:29:48 PM1/17/22
to
So what was the story on the "massively more dependants" thing?
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 17, 2022, 2:52:34 PM1/17/22
to
The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>Mon, 17 Jan 2022 04:20:07 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman" <a...@chinet.com>:
>>A Friend wrote:
>>>I understand that now, in the U.S., SSNs are issued at birth.
>>They can be. There's a birth certificate application that simultaneously
>>applies for the SSN. The reason is that IRS got pissed a couple of
>>decades back that there were massively more dependants claimed than the
>>census showed children in the country.
>>These days, any dependant claimed must be listed with the SSN.
>I am duly edjumicated!
>So what was the story on the "massively more dependants" thing?
The SSN of a dependant child over a certain age had to be listed. This
>>>I understand that now, in the U.S., SSNs are issued at birth.
>>They can be. There's a birth certificate application that simultaneously
>>applies for the SSN. The reason is that IRS got pissed a couple of
>>decades back that there were massively more dependants claimed than the
>>census showed children in the country.
>>These days, any dependant claimed must be listed with the SSN.
>I am duly edjumicated!
>So what was the story on the "massively more dependants" thing?
age was lowered over several years till even a child born during the tax
year had to have his SSN listed. As the SSN requirement was implemented,
dependants without SSNs were no longer being declared.
IRS assumed they were ficticious but didn't typically seek back taxes.
Another problem was Social Security didn't instantly issue the number so
that was something else to implement.
These days in my state, the birth certificate is issued by the state and
not by the local vital statistics registrar (county clerk or municipal
board of health) and I think that was done as part of implementing the
joint application for birth certificate and SSN assignment.
It makes sense to do it at birth as SSN assignment required submitting a
birth certificate as part of document review.
Prior to the change in tax law, a child didn't receive an SSN until
there was a need to do so: a job paying salary or wages from which there
was FICA/HI (Social Security/Medicare tax) withholding or at age 15, to
apply for the driver's learner permit. Every state requires an SSN to
have a driver's license although there's an exception for non-immigrant
foreign nationals post 9/11 who can no longer be assigned a "not valid
for work" SSN.
A Friend
Jan 17, 2022, 3:33:47 PM1/17/22
to
In article <ss4hdu$3m8$3...@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
For old people like me, you had to get an SSN when you took the SAT
and, maybe, the prior PSAT. I actually got yelled at in high school by
some damn stupid-ass Jesuit for not applying for an SSN while everyone
else was sitting there in class doing so. I already had one, I told
him. He seemed shocked, but some of those guys were pretty stupid.
and, maybe, the prior PSAT. I actually got yelled at in high school by
some damn stupid-ass Jesuit for not applying for an SSN while everyone
else was sitting there in class doing so. I already had one, I told
him. He seemed shocked, but some of those guys were pretty stupid.
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 17, 2022, 3:57:08 PM1/17/22
to
A Friend wrote:
>For old people like me, you had to get an SSN when you took the SAT
>and, maybe, the prior PSAT. I actually got yelled at in high school by
>some damn stupid-ass Jesuit for not applying for an SSN while everyone
>else was sitting there in class doing so. I already had one, I told
>him. He seemed shocked, but some of those guys were pretty stupid.
Really? My public school didn't make be provide SSN for standardized
>For old people like me, you had to get an SSN when you took the SAT
>and, maybe, the prior PSAT. I actually got yelled at in high school by
>some damn stupid-ass Jesuit for not applying for an SSN while everyone
>else was sitting there in class doing so. I already had one, I told
>him. He seemed shocked, but some of those guys were pretty stupid.
tests and I certainly took the PSAT before I had an SSN.
I didn't have an employer as a kid. My earliest jobs were self employed
and they didn't enforce SSN collection at the time. IRS is gonna come
after me for lots of back taxes owed.
You know, if nuns weren't horrid and scary, no one would have written
horror fiction.
A Friend
Jan 17, 2022, 4:10:23 PM1/17/22
to
In article <ss4l70$e41$2...@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
I've tried to get over my well-earned prejudice against nuns. I have
been largely unsuccessful.
been largely unsuccessful.
Adam H. Kerman
Jan 17, 2022, 4:17:25 PM1/17/22
to
a whole lot scarier than yours!
A Friend
Jan 17, 2022, 5:19:35 PM1/17/22
to
In article <ss4md1$e41$4...@dont-email.me>, Adam H. Kerman
Didn't he go to Georgetown? So, yes. At least I was spared that.
The Horny Goat
Jan 17, 2022, 5:47:46 PM1/17/22
to
On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 19:52:30 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>It makes sense to do it at birth as SSN assignment required submitting a
>birth certificate as part of document review.
>
>Prior to the change in tax law, a child didn't receive an SSN until
>there was a need to do so: a job paying salary or wages from which there
>was FICA/HI (Social Security/Medicare tax) withholding or at age 15, to
>apply for the driver's learner permit. Every state requires an SSN to
>have a driver's license although there's an exception for non-immigrant
>foreign nationals post 9/11 who can no longer be assigned a "not valid
>for work" SSN.
Sounds a lot like our system though a SIN has never been required (to
<a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>It makes sense to do it at birth as SSN assignment required submitting a
>birth certificate as part of document review.
>
>Prior to the change in tax law, a child didn't receive an SSN until
>there was a need to do so: a job paying salary or wages from which there
>was FICA/HI (Social Security/Medicare tax) withholding or at age 15, to
>apply for the driver's learner permit. Every state requires an SSN to
>have a driver's license although there's an exception for non-immigrant
>foreign nationals post 9/11 who can no longer be assigned a "not valid
>for work" SSN.
my knowledge and obviously I haven't had anything to do with licencing
since my youngest passed his road test 10-12 years ago) for a driver's
licence.
Ubiquitous
Jan 18, 2022, 5:06:47 AM1/18/22
to
In article <lKNDJ.282962$ya3....@fx38.iad>, pwal...@moviepig.com wrote:
>On 1/12/2022 9:59 PM, weary flake wrote:
>> Members of our media monopoly never differ with each other on the matter of
>> election integrity nor any other subject and they have unanimously declared
>> that to require picture ID for voting in the USA is the "moral equivalent of murder".
>> Here's a countering statement the judge and jury at The New York Times, CBS,
>> AT&T, Comcast, Disney, NBC, PBS, Zuckerberg, Larry Page and the whole gang wants
>> to make illegal:
>>
>> from October 2021:
>>
>> https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/ensuring-election-integrity-anti-democratic/
>>
>> Sixteen years ago, in 2005, the Carter-Baker Commission on
>> Federal Election Reform issued a report that proposed a uniform
>> system of requiring a photo ID in order to vote in U.S.
>> elections. ...
> >
>> Those opposing common sense measures to ensure integrity in U.S.
>> elections—measures such as those recommended by the bipartisan
>> Carter-Baker Commission in 2005—are not motivated by a concern
>> for democracy, but by partisan interests.
>
>Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>in the number of *legitimate* votes.
TROLL-O-METER
5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity
>On 1/12/2022 9:59 PM, weary flake wrote:
>> Members of our media monopoly never differ with each other on the matter of
>> election integrity nor any other subject and they have unanimously declared
>> that to require picture ID for voting in the USA is the "moral equivalent of murder".
>> Here's a countering statement the judge and jury at The New York Times, CBS,
>> AT&T, Comcast, Disney, NBC, PBS, Zuckerberg, Larry Page and the whole gang wants
>> to make illegal:
>>
>> from October 2021:
>>
>> https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/ensuring-election-integrity-anti-democratic/
>>
>> Sixteen years ago, in 2005, the Carter-Baker Commission on
>> Federal Election Reform issued a report that proposed a uniform
>> system of requiring a photo ID in order to vote in U.S.
>> elections. ...
> >
>> Those opposing common sense measures to ensure integrity in U.S.
>> elections—measures such as those recommended by the bipartisan
>> Carter-Baker Commission in 2005—are not motivated by a concern
>> for democracy, but by partisan interests.
>
>Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>in the number of *legitimate* votes.
TROLL-O-METER
5* 6* *7
4* *8
3* *9
2* *10
1* | *stuporous
0* -*- *catatonic
* |\ *comatose
* \ *clinical death
* \ *biological death
* _\/ *demonic apparition
* * *damned for all eternity
Ubiquitous
Jan 18, 2022, 5:09:03 AM1/18/22
to
In article <srofiv$gpp$1...@dont-email.me>, a...@chinet.com wrote:
> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>>or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>>insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>
>There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
>voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>
>The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
>to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>
>Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
>appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
Nice strawman. Get back to us when you have a real argument to make.
[Kerman's incorrect formatting fixed.]
--
Let's go Brandon!
> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>>from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>>impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>>in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>>>Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>>from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>>impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>
>>Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>>or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>>insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>
>There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
>voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>
>The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
>to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>
>Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
>appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
Nice strawman. Get back to us when you have a real argument to make.
[Kerman's incorrect formatting fixed.]
--
Let's go Brandon!
Ubiquitous
Jan 18, 2022, 5:12:03 AM1/18/22
to
>>>> Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>>>>>>from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>>>>>>impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>>>>>>in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>>>>>>or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>>>>>>insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>>>>>
>>>>>There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
>>>>>voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>>>>>
>>>>>The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
>>>>>to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>>>>>
>>>>>Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
>>>>>appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
>>>>
>>>>I didn't. I filled out a card and dropped it in the mail. Never showed
>>>>> BTR1701 <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> moviePig <pwal...@moviepig.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>Photo-ID might well result in fewer fraudulent votes ...dropping, say,
>>>>>>>from single-digits to even lower single-digits. By far the major
>>>>>>>impact, however, will be a massive -- and massively partisan -- decrease
>>>>>>>in the number of *legitimate* votes. Pretend not otherwise...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ridiculous. The very people who are presumed not to have the intelligence
>>>>>>or the wherewithal to make it to the DMV for a free ID card are both
>>>>>>insulted by the concept and overwhelming in support of the requirement.
>>>>>
>>>>>There are people who don't have the required ID who aren't committing
>>>>>voting fraud and won't be allowed to vote.
>>>>>
>>>>>The proposed law is an ass. I oppose having laws for symbolic reasons or
>>>>>to appease political narratives. The question is why you don't.
>>>>>
>>>>>Voter ID accomplishes nothing. These people ALREADY provided the
>>>>>appropriate ID upon registering to vote.
>>>>
>>>>anyone any ID.
>>>
>>>For your initial voter registration in California or for an address
>>>change?
>>
>>Initial registration.
>
>They just trusted your honesty!
Did you hear that zooming noise pass overhead?
weary flake
Jan 18, 2022, 9:06:18 PM1/18/22
to
quitting making the cards at all?
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