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Downton Abbey: about that blind soldier (SPOILERS!!!)
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Sarah B
Jan 8, 2012, 11:09:07 PM1/8/12
to
OK, I just watched the first episode of season 2 of Downton Abbey, and
I have a question.
Spoilers, obviously, so if you don't want to know what happened, don't
read any further!!!
Anyway...are we supposed to believe that the blind soldier really did
kill himself, or are we supposed to suspect that Thomas killed him
(because he was freaking out right after the soldier died)? It almost
looked to me like the latter, but it might have just been the editing
and I'm making up wild soap-opera stuff in my head. Any ideas?
I have a question.
Spoilers, obviously, so if you don't want to know what happened, don't
read any further!!!
Anyway...are we supposed to believe that the blind soldier really did
kill himself, or are we supposed to suspect that Thomas killed him
(because he was freaking out right after the soldier died)? It almost
looked to me like the latter, but it might have just been the editing
and I'm making up wild soap-opera stuff in my head. Any ideas?
tdciago
Jan 9, 2012, 12:46:46 AM1/9/12
to
about having to leave the village hospital, and his situation in
general. Thomas had bonded with him, so the only reason he would've
had to assist with a suicide or kill the guy himself was if the
soldier begged him to help as a mercy. That's not the impression I
got, but Thomas is a bastard, so who knows. I think this was just a
situation in which he actually felt a human emotion.
Obveeus
Jan 9, 2012, 7:14:05 AM1/9/12
to
"Sarah B" <sarah...@gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, I just watched the first episode of season 2 of Downton Abbey, and
> I have a question.
>
> Spoilers, obviously, so if you don't want to know what happened, don't
> read any further!!!
>
> Anyway...are we supposed to believe that the blind soldier really did
> kill himself, or are we supposed to suspect that Thomas killed him
> (because he was freaking out right after the soldier died)?
Still, the way this show is written, it would not surprise me if it turns
out that Thomas molested him, then killed him so he couldn't tell...or even
killed him and then molested him.
RichA
Jan 9, 2012, 9:43:30 AM1/9/12
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On Jan 8, 11:09 pm, Sarah B <sarah.ly...@gmail.com> wrote:
Patty Winter
Jan 9, 2012, 12:02:54 PM1/9/12
to
In article <05027c14-8a45-4e1e...@m4g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>,
Sarah B <sarah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Spoilers, obviously, so if you don't want to know what happened, don't
>read any further!!!
>Anyway...are we supposed to believe that the blind soldier really did
>kill himself, or are we supposed to suspect that Thomas killed him
>(because he was freaking out right after the soldier died)?
Oh, I'm sure it was suicide. Thomas was crying because he had become
>
>Spoilers, obviously, so if you don't want to know what happened, don't
>read any further!!!
>Anyway...are we supposed to believe that the blind soldier really did
>kill himself, or are we supposed to suspect that Thomas killed him
>(because he was freaking out right after the soldier died)?
fond of the man. With that, and Thomas' talk about how hard it is
being "different," it appears that we're meant to have a bit of
sympathy for him this season and not just see him as a weasel. Well,
I'm reserving judgment on that. Now that he's back near O'Brien, I'm
expecting the two of them to cook up some dirty tricks again. (Although
presumably O'Brien has mellowed a bit after her last sabotage turned
out to be for for a mistaken reason.)
Patty
tdciago
Jan 9, 2012, 12:33:49 PM1/9/12
to
On Jan 9, 12:02 pm, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> Now that he's back near O'Brien, I'm
> expecting the two of them to cook up some dirty tricks again.
I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
> Now that he's back near O'Brien, I'm
> expecting the two of them to cook up some dirty tricks again.
the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake. She
authorizes a risky procedure to save her husband's life, and this is
the thanks she gets.
Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
Patty Winter
Jan 9, 2012, 1:42:41 PM1/9/12
to
In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
[about Thomas]
>I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
>the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
>the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
>As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
>I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
>root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
>Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
Patty
Obveeus
Jan 9, 2012, 2:25:39 PM1/9/12
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> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
He pretty much spelled that out with his dialog and actions. Not much
> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
different than many of the reserve troops a decade or so back that thought
joining meant lifetime government support and weekend warrior vacations
with zero risk.
> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
>>I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
>>root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
>
> I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
> thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing hinted
at that for me.
>>Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
>
> Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
years of war and women's rights pushing has simply left the house with a
less mousy go-getter this time.
Mason Barge
Jan 9, 2012, 2:54:10 PM1/9/12
to
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 20:09:07 -0800 (PST), Sarah B <sarah...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Suicide. I don't even see the issue.
wrote:
Mason Barge
Jan 9, 2012, 3:01:23 PM1/9/12
to
On 09 Jan 2012 18:42:41 GMT, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
>tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>[about Thomas]
>
>>I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
>>the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
>>the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
>>As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
>
>I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
>first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
>that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
>Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
He actually said something very brief, to the effect of how shocked he
>
>In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
>tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>[about Thomas]
>
>>I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
>>the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
>>the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
>>As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
>
>I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
>first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
>that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
>Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
was, because he thought volunteering early and getting in the medical
corps would keep him off the front lines.
It was just before the other stretcher carrier got shot.
>
>>I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
>>root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
the shades of grey, i.e. Edith and Mary. I don't think Edith is really
likeable, just pitiful. After calling Mary a "slut", she's kissing
someone's husband, and a tenant farmer, to boot.
>I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
>thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
>
>>Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
>
>Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
she's certainly getting paid back for her irritating personality!
tdciago
Jan 9, 2012, 3:02:11 PM1/9/12
to
On Jan 9, 2:25 pm, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
> Why would you think that she was virtuous? Jealous and petty, sure.
> Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing hinted
> at that for me.
Edith called Mary a slut for her tryst with the Turkish guy. Until
> Why would you think that she was virtuous? Jealous and petty, sure.
> Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing hinted
> at that for me.
this episode, Edith seemed to be the one willing to play by the rules
and settle for a traditional life. She was even happy about the
prospect of marrying that dull older guy. She often accused Mary of
being too obvious in baiting men, and she was bitter about Mary's
eagerness to get out of mourning clothes after Patrick died. It
seemed disrespectful to her. So this Edith, throwing caution to the
wind by boldly getting cozy with a married man, was a surprise.
Heh. I bet the Saudis are going to use this as an example of how
allowing women to drive would lead to promiscuity.
Obveeus
Jan 9, 2012, 3:35:37 PM1/9/12
to
"tdciago" <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Jan 9, 2:25 pm, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Why would you think that she was virtuous? Jealous and petty, sure.
>> Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing
>> hinted
>> at that for me.
>
>Edith called Mary a slut for her tryst with the Turkish guy. Until
>this episode, Edith seemed to be the one willing to play by the rules
>and settle for a traditional life. She was even happy about the
>prospect of marrying that dull older guy.
in every effort to land a rich, name husband. She just isn't in the prime
position (inheritance line or looks) to get the attention that Mary does.
> She often accused Mary of
>being too obvious in baiting men, and she was bitter about Mary's
>eagerness to get out of mourning clothes after Patrick died. It
>seemed disrespectful to her.
> So this Edith, throwing caution to the
>wind by boldly getting cozy with a married man, was a surprise.
One can only hope that her own transgression causes her to rethink her off
and on desire to destroy her sister's life with 'gossip'. if she casn get
past that desire, there may be hope for the two sisters to reconcile.
>Heh. I bet the Saudis are going to use this as an example of how
>allowing women to drive would lead to promiscuity.
that holding and lifting of 'sacks'. Any chance the Saudis will pass a
decree that allowing women to carry anything can cause them to become
promiscuous?
Patty Winter
Jan 9, 2012, 3:51:02 PM1/9/12
to
In article <5c6abab0-015b-49c7...@p13g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>Heh. I bet the Saudis are going to use this as an example of how
>allowing women to drive would lead to promiscuity.
LOL! Well, maybe it's only a risk if they're allowed to drive tractors...
>
>Heh. I bet the Saudis are going to use this as an example of how
>allowing women to drive would lead to promiscuity.
Patty
tomcervo
Jan 9, 2012, 4:17:10 PM1/9/12
to
If this is driving you nuts now, just wait. Word from the British
viewer blogs is that the writing this season is so bad that it seems
to be intention parody--that Fellowes is trying to write the Red Noses
sketches himself. There are other reports that he had to write a lot
of scripts in a short time.
Anyway, dramatic and character inconsistences and historical
anachronisms mean nothing more than Johnny Deadline is at work.
(The officer killed himself. I know it's crashingly sudden and
unexpected, but there's more of that to come.)
viewer blogs is that the writing this season is so bad that it seems
to be intention parody--that Fellowes is trying to write the Red Noses
sketches himself. There are other reports that he had to write a lot
of scripts in a short time.
Anyway, dramatic and character inconsistences and historical
anachronisms mean nothing more than Johnny Deadline is at work.
(The officer killed himself. I know it's crashingly sudden and
unexpected, but there's more of that to come.)
Jim G.
Jan 9, 2012, 4:22:38 PM1/9/12
to
Sarah B sent the following on Sun, 8 Jan 2012 20:09:07 -0800 (PST):
scared of leaving his two new supportive friends, and it was all just
too much for him.
If it was more than that, then I missed any clues, for sure. We didn't
even see Thomas washing his hands, for example...
--
Jim G. | Waukesha, WI
NoCLoDS Founding Member (No Cop, Lawyer or Doctor Shows)
> are we supposed to believe that the blind soldier really did
> kill himself, or are we supposed to suspect that Thomas killed him
> (because he was freaking out right after the soldier died)? It almost
> looked to me like the latter, but it might have just been the editing
> and I'm making up wild soap-opera stuff in my head. Any ideas?
My guess is that it was a WYSIWYG moment. He was depressed, in shock,
> kill himself, or are we supposed to suspect that Thomas killed him
> (because he was freaking out right after the soldier died)? It almost
> looked to me like the latter, but it might have just been the editing
> and I'm making up wild soap-opera stuff in my head. Any ideas?
scared of leaving his two new supportive friends, and it was all just
too much for him.
If it was more than that, then I missed any clues, for sure. We didn't
even see Thomas washing his hands, for example...
--
Jim G. | Waukesha, WI
NoCLoDS Founding Member (No Cop, Lawyer or Doctor Shows)
Mason Barge
Jan 9, 2012, 5:31:11 PM1/9/12
to
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 15:35:37 -0500, "Obveeus" <Obv...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>"tdciago" <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>On Jan 9, 2:25 pm, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Why would you think that she was virtuous? Jealous and petty, sure.
>>> Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing
>>> hinted
>>> at that for me.
>>
>>Edith called Mary a slut for her tryst with the Turkish guy. Until
>>this episode, Edith seemed to be the one willing to play by the rules
>>and settle for a traditional life. She was even happy about the
>>prospect of marrying that dull older guy.
>
>He wasn't dull to her, but to be sure, yes, she is scrambling just like Mary
>in every effort to land a rich, name husband. She just isn't in the prime
>position (inheritance line or looks) to get the attention that Mary does.
>
Or brains or personality. AFAIK, Mary doesn't have any advantages over
>
>"tdciago" <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>On Jan 9, 2:25 pm, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Why would you think that she was virtuous? Jealous and petty, sure.
>>> Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing
>>> hinted
>>> at that for me.
>>
>>Edith called Mary a slut for her tryst with the Turkish guy. Until
>>this episode, Edith seemed to be the one willing to play by the rules
>>and settle for a traditional life. She was even happy about the
>>prospect of marrying that dull older guy.
>
>He wasn't dull to her, but to be sure, yes, she is scrambling just like Mary
>in every effort to land a rich, name husband. She just isn't in the prime
>position (inheritance line or looks) to get the attention that Mary does.
>
the younger sisters as far as aristocratic oomph. She might have a larger
settlement - I dunno'.
>> She often accused Mary of
>>being too obvious in baiting men, and she was bitter about Mary's
>>eagerness to get out of mourning clothes after Patrick died. It
>>seemed disrespectful to her.
>
>My take on that was that Edith had a thing for Patrick.
with Patrick and her dislike of Mary stems from Mary not loving him and
yet not getting out of the way so that Edith could have a shot at him. She
was still sufficiently bitter about it that she was all over Mary for not
wearing her mourning attire longer.
The prescribed period of mourning for a cousin was (apparently) less than
for a fiance, and Grantham told Mary that since the engagement had not
been announced, she could choose whether to mourn Patrick as cousin or
fiance. She, of course, chose the shorter mourning period which just
pissed Edith off, all over again.
>> So this Edith, throwing caution to the
>>wind by boldly getting cozy with a married man, was a surprise.
>
>Any port in a storm.
spinsterhood.
A married tenant farmer makes Sybil's chauffeur look like a prize catch!
>One can only hope that her own transgression causes her to rethink her off
>and on desire to destroy her sister's life with 'gossip'. if she casn get
>past that desire, there may be hope for the two sisters to reconcile.
Downton is, it is after all only a tv show, not Jane Austen or George
Elliot.
Obveeus
Jan 9, 2012, 5:45:22 PM1/9/12
to
"Mason Barge" <mason...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Or brains or personality. AFAIK, Mary doesn't have any advantages over
> the younger sisters as far as aristocratic oomph. She might have a larger
> settlement - I dunno'.
there would be no reason for guys to be lining up (before the rumors) for
Mary while none are interested in the youngest, Sybil.
> A married tenant farmer makes Sybil's chauffeur look like a prize catch!
>>One can only hope that her own transgression causes her to rethink her off
>>and on desire to destroy her sister's life with 'gossip'. if she casn get
>>past that desire, there may be hope for the two sisters to reconcile.
>
> If only. This sort of thing is just reminds us that, as much fun as
> Downton is, it is after all only a tv show, not Jane Austen or George
> Elliot.
enjoy it.
Artis
Jan 9, 2012, 6:27:50 PM1/9/12
to
On Jan 9, 4:45 pm, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
I do not see why some viewers think Mary is more ethical/virtuous than
Edith. Mary is only prettier.
Edith. Mary is only prettier.
tomcervo
Jan 9, 2012, 8:34:08 PM1/9/12
to
On Jan 9, 5:45 pm, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
If you're into meta, try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dMlXentLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dMlXentLw
Stan Brown
Jan 10, 2012, 7:39:57 AM1/10/12
to
On 09 Jan 2012 17:02:54 GMT, Patty Winter wrote:
> (Although
> presumably O'Brien has mellowed a bit after her last sabotage turned
> out to be for for a mistaken reason.)
I've watched only about the first 40 minutes so far, but I thought
> (Although
> presumably O'Brien has mellowed a bit after her last sabotage turned
> out to be for for a mistaken reason.)
she still seemed pretty evil with the trick she played on Ethel.
I liked Carson's comment later when O'Brien got snarky: Her Ladyship
has instructed me to forget the incident. Don't tempt me to disobey.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
"Children -- so adorable. In a way they're like people."
-- Veronica, on /Better Off Ted/
Stan Brown
Jan 10, 2012, 7:45:38 AM1/10/12
to
On 09 Jan 2012 18:42:41 GMT, Patty Winter wrote:
> In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> [about Thomas]
> In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> [about Thomas]
> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
Back then, attitudes were *very* different. Almost everyone thought
> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
that any young man with no uniform and no obvious disability was a
coward ad a near traitor. The "white feather" incident in the
concert rang true with my reading: people really did go up to
strangers and hand them white feathers as a way to shame them
publicly. (Lord Grantham showed considerable courage by denouncing
them publicly. But remember how keenly even he felt about "being in
the Army" and not just doing war work as a civilian?)
So I think Thomas felt he *had* to be in the Army and be in uniform,
or his reputation would take a fatal blow. I do agree with you that
he may have thought, mistakenly, that he'd be serving in a hospital
behind the lines. Actually, come to think of it, when he wangled
that job it was before the outbreak of war, so maybe he didn't even
realize there would be combat at all. In the 1900s and 1910s there
had been one crisis after another, all resolved peacefully, so I can
believe that the actual outbreak of war took most people by surprise.
Patty Winter
Jan 10, 2012, 12:15:01 PM1/10/12
to
In article <MPG.2975fbac8...@news.individual.net>,
Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>On 09 Jan 2012 17:02:54 GMT, Patty Winter wrote:
>> (Although
>> presumably O'Brien has mellowed a bit after her last sabotage turned
>> out to be for for a mistaken reason.)
>
>I've watched only about the first 40 minutes so far, but I thought
>she still seemed pretty evil with the trick she played on Ethel.
I said she'd mellowed "a bit." Humiliating a new maid isn't on par
>On 09 Jan 2012 17:02:54 GMT, Patty Winter wrote:
>> (Although
>> presumably O'Brien has mellowed a bit after her last sabotage turned
>> out to be for for a mistaken reason.)
>
>I've watched only about the first 40 minutes so far, but I thought
>she still seemed pretty evil with the trick she played on Ethel.
with causing a miscarriage...
Patty
Obveeus
Jan 10, 2012, 12:29:35 PM1/10/12
to
"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
> Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>On 09 Jan 2012 17:02:54 GMT, Patty Winter wrote:
>>> (Although
>>> presumably O'Brien has mellowed a bit after her last sabotage turned
>>> out to be for for a mistaken reason.)
>>
>>I've watched only about the first 40 minutes so far, but I thought
>>she still seemed pretty evil with the trick she played on Ethel.
>
> I said she'd mellowed "a bit." Humiliating a new maid isn't on par
> with causing a miscarriage...
environments, but it shouldn't be expected to cause miscarriage.
Jim G.
Jan 10, 2012, 1:57:26 PM1/10/12
to
Patty Winter sent the following on 09 Jan 2012 18:42:41 GMT:
thought that the combination would keep him in a relatively safe place.
> >I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
> >root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
I haven't ever wanted to root for her. On a good day, she's petty and
vindictive.
> I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
> thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
Nah, the good adjectives all belong to Sybil in a save the best for last
sort of way.
> >Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
Ethel is the personification of the changes to come in class structure.
Yes, she's annoying, but I can't fault people who don't want to settle
for a lot in life that has essentially been determined for them by
others.
> Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
I wonder if we'll see Gwen again. Given that her story didn't really
have a complete ending that we saw, I'm guessing that we just might see
more of her.
>
> In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> [about Thomas]
>
> >I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
> >the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
> >the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
> >As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
>
> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
IIRC, he went for a medical angle and volunteered early because he
> In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> [about Thomas]
>
> >I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
> >the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
> >the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
> >As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
>
> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
thought that the combination would keep him in a relatively safe place.
> >I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
> >root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
vindictive.
> I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
> thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
sort of way.
> >Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
Yes, she's annoying, but I can't fault people who don't want to settle
for a lot in life that has essentially been determined for them by
others.
> Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
have a complete ending that we saw, I'm guessing that we just might see
more of her.
Jim G.
Jan 10, 2012, 1:57:26 PM1/10/12
to
tdciago sent the following on Mon, 9 Jan 2012 12:02:11 -0800 (PST):
And all this time, I thought that it was the farmer's *daughter* who got
into trouble...
into trouble...
Jim G.
Jan 10, 2012, 1:57:26 PM1/10/12
to
Mason Barge sent the following on Mon, 09 Jan 2012 15:01:23 -0500:
admirable there.
> After calling Mary a "slut", she's kissing
> someone's husband, and a tenant farmer, to boot.
True, but at least her deal developed over a bit of time and seemed to
be accompanied by genuine feelings for the guy. And it *was* just a
kiss. Mary, OTOH, didn't know Pretty Boy from Adam, but she had an itch
that she wanted to scratch and she scratched it. Scratched it hard
enough to kill the guy, even. :)
> >I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
> >thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
>
> She's a hypocrite for sure.
True, but it's a reminder for me that, even with hypocrisy, there are
varying degrees.
> >>Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
> >
> >Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
>
> I miss Gwen too, but I think Ethel is a riot. Yes, very annoying, but
> she's certainly getting paid back for her irritating personality!
The hazing has been funny and would be even funnier if O'Brien weren't
the one behind it. And it's great that the upstairs folks seem to get a
kick out of it, even though they clearly know what's going on.
> On 09 Jan 2012 18:42:41 GMT, Patty Winter <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> >tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >[about Thomas]
> >
> >>I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
> >>the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
> >>the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
> >>As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
> >
> >I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
> >first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> >that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
> >Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
>
> He actually said something very brief, to the effect of how shocked he
> was, because he thought volunteering early and getting in the medical
> corps would keep him off the front lines.
>
> It was just before the other stretcher carrier got shot.
>
> >
> >>I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
> >>root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
>
> Looks like Mrs. Drake can take care of herself, LOL. I have to say, I like
> the shades of grey, i.e. Edith and Mary. I don't think Edith is really
> likeable, just pitiful.
Exactly. At best, I feel sorry for her at times. But there's nothing
>
> >
> >In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> >tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >[about Thomas]
> >
> >>I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
> >>the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
> >>the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
> >>As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
> >
> >I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
> >first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> >that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
> >Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
>
> He actually said something very brief, to the effect of how shocked he
> was, because he thought volunteering early and getting in the medical
> corps would keep him off the front lines.
>
> It was just before the other stretcher carrier got shot.
>
> >
> >>I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
> >>root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
>
> Looks like Mrs. Drake can take care of herself, LOL. I have to say, I like
> the shades of grey, i.e. Edith and Mary. I don't think Edith is really
> likeable, just pitiful.
admirable there.
> After calling Mary a "slut", she's kissing
> someone's husband, and a tenant farmer, to boot.
be accompanied by genuine feelings for the guy. And it *was* just a
kiss. Mary, OTOH, didn't know Pretty Boy from Adam, but she had an itch
that she wanted to scratch and she scratched it. Scratched it hard
enough to kill the guy, even. :)
> >I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
> >thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
>
> She's a hypocrite for sure.
varying degrees.
> >>Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
> >
> >Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
>
> I miss Gwen too, but I think Ethel is a riot. Yes, very annoying, but
> she's certainly getting paid back for her irritating personality!
the one behind it. And it's great that the upstairs folks seem to get a
kick out of it, even though they clearly know what's going on.
Patty Winter
Jan 10, 2012, 2:11:34 PM1/10/12
to
In article <mc1pg7h5hfsg0gp5j...@4ax.com>,
Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
>Patty Winter sent the following on 09 Jan 2012 18:42:41 GMT:
>>
>Patty Winter sent the following on 09 Jan 2012 18:42:41 GMT:
>>
>> Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
>
>I wonder if we'll see Gwen again. Given that her story didn't really
>have a complete ending that we saw, I'm guessing that we just might see
>more of her.
How so that her story didn't have a complete ending?
>
>I wonder if we'll see Gwen again. Given that her story didn't really
>have a complete ending that we saw, I'm guessing that we just might see
>more of her.
Patty
~consul
Jan 10, 2012, 4:03:27 PM1/10/12
to
'tis on Mon, 9 Jan 2012 09:33:49 -0800 (PST), wrote tdciago thus to essay our thoughts to discern upon,
I thought Cora knew, but evidently she didn't.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, consul -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
-------- Original Message --------
> On Jan 9, 12:02 pm, Patty Winter<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>> Now that he's back near O'Brien, I'm
>> expecting the two of them to cook up some dirty tricks again.
> I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
> the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
> the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
> As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
I think it seems like Lord Grantham didn't know who the side deal was for. He seemed surprised when he heard about it, I think at a dinner.
> On Jan 9, 12:02 pm, Patty Winter<pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>> Now that he's back near O'Brien, I'm
>> expecting the two of them to cook up some dirty tricks again.
> I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
> the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
> the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
> As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
I thought Cora knew, but evidently she didn't.
--
"... respect, all good works are not done by only good folk. For here, at the end of all things, we shall do what needs to be done."
--till next time, consul -x- <<poetry.dolphins-cove.com>>
~consul
Jan 10, 2012, 4:06:05 PM1/10/12
to
'tis on 09 Jan 2012 18:42:41 GMT, wrote Patty Winter thus to essay our thoughts to discern upon,
>> I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
>> root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
> I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
> thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
She narced on her sister with the Pook character to the Turkish Embassy.
-------- Original Message --------
> In article<ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> tdciago<tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
> [about Thomas]
>> I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
>> the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
>> the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
>> As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
I think he was hoping for some easy appointment attached to someone high up, so he wouldn't be at the front. Like as if he was with Lord Grantham's honorary position, or that he would be in a local surguery like the recovery hospital. That's why he was so keen on making the connection with that doctor.
> In article<ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> tdciago<tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
> [about Thomas]
>> I couldn't understand why Cora was willing to help get him a job at
>> the hospital, but then I realized that Lord Grantham and Carson kept
>> the information about Thomas' thieving from the ladies of the house.
>> As far as Cora knew, Thomas left their employ honorably.
> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
>> I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
>> root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
> I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
> thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
Mason Barge
Jan 10, 2012, 6:54:10 PM1/10/12
to
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 17:45:22 -0500, "Obveeus" <Obv...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>"Mason Barge" <mason...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Or brains or personality. AFAIK, Mary doesn't have any advantages over
>> the younger sisters as far as aristocratic oomph. She might have a larger
>> settlement - I dunno'.
>
>She must have a larger settlement...or the only settlement. Otherwise,
>there would be no reason for guys to be lining up (before the rumors) for
>Mary while none are interested in the youngest, Sybil.
Well, we all love Sybil. But I can easily see how a powerful English
>
>"Mason Barge" <mason...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Or brains or personality. AFAIK, Mary doesn't have any advantages over
>> the younger sisters as far as aristocratic oomph. She might have a larger
>> settlement - I dunno'.
>
>She must have a larger settlement...or the only settlement. Otherwise,
>there would be no reason for guys to be lining up (before the rumors) for
>Mary while none are interested in the youngest, Sybil.
up-and-comer would have a clear preference for Mary.
Mary's smarter and has some street creds. She really would be the perfect
person to run a place like Downton.
Mason Barge
Jan 10, 2012, 6:57:33 PM1/10/12
to
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 15:27:50 -0800 (PST), Artis <Forward...@Inbox.com>
wrote:
Edith is really completely self-absorbed and deluded. Mary, on the other
hand, has done nice things for other people without seeking credit.
Take the scene where the really venal Duke of Crowsomething makes her take
him around the servants' quarters (in order to steal Thomas' letters). She
apologizes to Bates for invading his privacy; the Duke asks her "Why did
you apologize to that *man*?" and she says "It's a habit of mine,
apologizing when I'm in the wrong."
Edith would never have apologized in the first place.
wrote:
hand, has done nice things for other people without seeking credit.
Take the scene where the really venal Duke of Crowsomething makes her take
him around the servants' quarters (in order to steal Thomas' letters). She
apologizes to Bates for invading his privacy; the Duke asks her "Why did
you apologize to that *man*?" and she says "It's a habit of mine,
apologizing when I'm in the wrong."
Edith would never have apologized in the first place.
Mason Barge
Jan 10, 2012, 6:58:15 PM1/10/12
to
would add a bit of fun to the show . . . .
Mason Barge
Jan 10, 2012, 7:05:02 PM1/10/12
to
And personally, I think kissing a married man like that is way worse than
a bit of heavy petting, even by Victorian standards. Well, maybe a tie by
Victorian standards, sigh.
By modern standards, Edith's sin is much worse than Mary's. I mean, not
just the implication of adultery, but using the extreme difference in
social and financial position to get her ya-ya's.
>> >I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
>> >thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
>>
>> She's a hypocrite for sure.
>
>True, but it's a reminder for me that, even with hypocrisy, there are
>varying degrees.
>> >>Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
>> >
>> >Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
>>
>> I miss Gwen too, but I think Ethel is a riot. Yes, very annoying, but
>> she's certainly getting paid back for her irritating personality!
>
>The hazing has been funny and would be even funnier if O'Brien weren't
>the one behind it. And it's great that the upstairs folks seem to get a
>kick out of it, even though they clearly know what's going on.
Carson would have had O'Brien's head on a silver platter.
Mason Barge
Jan 10, 2012, 7:09:44 PM1/10/12
to
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 07:45:38 -0500, Stan Brown
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>On 09 Jan 2012 18:42:41 GMT, Patty Winter wrote:
>> In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
>> tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> [about Thomas]
>
>> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
>> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
>> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
>> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
>
>Back then, attitudes were *very* different. Almost everyone thought
>that any young man with no uniform and no obvious disability was a
>coward ad a near traitor. The "white feather" incident in the
>concert rang true with my reading: people really did go up to
>strangers and hand them white feathers as a way to shame them
>publicly. (Lord Grantham showed considerable courage by denouncing
>them publicly. But remember how keenly even he felt about "being in
>the Army" and not just doing war work as a civilian?)
There was a rahter good old movie called "The Four Feathers" about the use
<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>On 09 Jan 2012 18:42:41 GMT, Patty Winter wrote:
>> In article <ab25fede-db83-4065...@k8g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
>> tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> [about Thomas]
>
>> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
>> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
>> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
>> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
>
>Back then, attitudes were *very* different. Almost everyone thought
>that any young man with no uniform and no obvious disability was a
>coward ad a near traitor. The "white feather" incident in the
>concert rang true with my reading: people really did go up to
>strangers and hand them white feathers as a way to shame them
>publicly. (Lord Grantham showed considerable courage by denouncing
>them publicly. But remember how keenly even he felt about "being in
>the Army" and not just doing war work as a civilian?)
of white feathers to humiliate men who dodged service. For someone of
more social standing than William, it could be extremely serious.
>So I think Thomas felt he *had* to be in the Army and be in uniform,
>or his reputation would take a fatal blow.
lines. He's a clever guy but totally without chivalry or patriotic spirit.
>I do agree with you that
>he may have thought, mistakenly, that he'd be serving in a hospital
>behind the lines. Actually, come to think of it, when he wangled
>that job it was before the outbreak of war, so maybe he didn't even
>realize there would be combat at all. In the 1900s and 1910s there
>had been one crisis after another, all resolved peacefully, so I can
>believe that the actual outbreak of war took most people by surprise.
one who got shot). They spelled it out for us.
Mason Barge
Jan 10, 2012, 7:17:28 PM1/10/12
to
and risking serious injury, knowing Cora was pregnant. Legally speaking,
she is guilty of reckless feticide, the equivalent of manslaughter. And I
wouldn't put it past a court to find her guilty of the equivalent of
murder.
If you shoot a gun at someone, even if you're only trying to injure him,
and the bullet hits someone else who dies, I'm fairly certain that's
second-degree murder at Common Law. (This actually sounds like part of a
law school exam question, LOL.)
Charles Bishop
Jan 10, 2012, 8:15:01 PM1/10/12
to
In article <jefevm$bhg$1...@dont-email.me>, "Obveeus" <Obv...@aol.com> wrote:
>"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>"Patty Winter" <pat...@wintertime.com> wrote:
>
>> tdciago <tdc...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> [about Thomas]
>
>> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
>> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
>> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
>
>He pretty much spelled that out with his dialog and actions. Not much
>>
>> [about Thomas]
>
>> I never understood why he volunteered for the medical corps in the
>> first place. Maybe it was because he knew he'd be drafted and thought
>> that being a medic would be slightly safer than being an infantryman?
>
>different than many of the reserve troops a decade or so back that thought
>joining meant lifetime government support and weekend warrior vacations
>with zero risk.
>
>> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
>
>He did...it just took him 2 years to figure out how.
>> Still, I'm surprised he didn't try to weasel into some safer job.
>
>
> >>I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
>>>root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
>>
> >>I continue to be frustrated by Edith's character. Just when I want to
>>>root for her, she does something bad. Poor Mrs. Drake.
>>
>> I wouldn't have expected Edith to pull a stunt like that, either. I
>> thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
>
>> thought she was the most virtuous of the daughters.
>
>Why would you think that she was virtuous? Jealous and petty, sure.
>Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing hinted
>at that for me.
>
>Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing hinted
>at that for me.
>
>>>Are we never going to see Gwen again? Ethel is a pain in the ass.
>>
>> Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
>
>They replaced one maid with a desire for more in life with another. Two
>>
>> Gwen got a secretarial job. She's gone. Yes, Ethel is annoying.
>
>years of war and women's rights pushing has simply left the house with a
>less mousy go-getter this time.
Isn't this part of the history? That the war(s) provided servants with
more to do, with their limited education, than be servants? Is that why
we're being shown them moving on?
--
charles
Obveeus
Jan 10, 2012, 8:36:19 PM1/10/12
to
"Mason Barge" <mason...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And personally, I think kissing a married man like that is way worse than
> a bit of heavy petting, even by Victorian standards. Well, maybe a tie by
> Victorian standards, sigh.
gave out. The thing is, if each had been caught in the act of what they
were doing, Mary likely would have ended up forced to wed her guy (setting
aside the silliness of his departure for a second) while Edith would be
wearing some sort of scarlet letter and shunned from polite society. Yes,
by Victorian standards, I think Edith commited the worse offense.
> By modern standards, Edith's sin is much worse than Mary's. I mean, not
> just the implication of adultery, but using the extreme difference in
> social and financial position to get her ya-ya's.
'using her position'...I don't think that Edith is doing that, at least not
intentionally. The guy may be hooked by the titillation of access to high
fruit, but I don't think that she has even considered that as a part of his
motivation.
Obveeus
Jan 10, 2012, 8:43:10 PM1/10/12
to
"Mason Barge" <mason...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 12:29:35 -0500, "Obveeus" <Obv...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Dropping a bar of soap might cause an undesired conjugal visit in certain
>>environments, but it shouldn't be expected to cause miscarriage.
>>
>
> Right, BUT . . . she did do it for the express purpose of making Cora fall
> and risking serious injury, knowing Cora was pregnant.
(along with the petty vengence aspect of it).
> Legally speaking,
> she is guilty of reckless feticide, the equivalent of manslaughter. And I
> wouldn't put it past a court to find her guilty of the equivalent of
> murder.
>
> If you shoot a gun at someone, even if you're only trying to injure him,
> and the bullet hits someone else who dies, I'm fairly certain that's
> second-degree murder at Common Law. (This actually sounds like part of a
> law school exam question, LOL.)
writing (all you need to do is twist your mustache, drop the soap, and
presto you rid the world of innocent unborn children). As to the legal
issue as it would apply to the show...it would never come up since no one
would think to lay a murder charge (or negligence or anything else) against
her for the existence of the soapy floor. Only the home viewer had the
vision of the 'true event'.
Obveeus
Jan 10, 2012, 8:53:45 PM1/10/12
to
Riveter' process for American women in WWII.
Mason Barge
Jan 11, 2012, 2:38:50 PM1/11/12
to
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 20:36:19 -0500, "Obveeus" <Obv...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>"Mason Barge" <mason...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And personally, I think kissing a married man like that is way worse than
>> a bit of heavy petting, even by Victorian standards. Well, maybe a tie by
>> Victorian standards, sigh.
>
>Heavy petting? I think Mary did a lot more than that before the poor man
>gave out.
Maybe, maybe not LOL. If the instruments of pleasure were hands, it's
>
>"Mason Barge" <mason...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> And personally, I think kissing a married man like that is way worse than
>> a bit of heavy petting, even by Victorian standards. Well, maybe a tie by
>> Victorian standards, sigh.
>
>Heavy petting? I think Mary did a lot more than that before the poor man
>gave out.
what I'd call heavy petting.
>The thing is, if each had been caught in the act of what they
>were doing, Mary likely would have ended up forced to wed her guy (setting
>aside the silliness of his departure for a second) while Edith would be
>wearing some sort of scarlet letter and shunned from polite society. Yes,
>by Victorian standards, I think Edith commited the worse offense.
be Muslim, not to mention a wog. Either family might prefer the
consquences of moral ruin to a marriage between them. (And of course, he
would not automatically be as "ruined" as Mary, although his diplomatic
career would be over.)
Letting this play out, I'd assume that Pamook could be arrested for this
even as late as 1913. But then, he'd probably have diplomatic immunity,
meaning the Foreign Office would get involved and have him set free over
the objections of a furious, powerful father.
I wonder what Grantham would do if Pamook made it out of the country. Hire
someone to kill him or horsewhip him? Find some way to exact economic or
social revenge?
Really, this would make a fascinating book or movie, even though it's a
lot more along the lines of David Mamet than Julian Fellowes.
>> By modern standards, Edith's sin is much worse than Mary's. I mean, not
>> just the implication of adultery, but using the extreme difference in
>> social and financial position to get her ya-ya's.
>
>Yes to the adultery aspect being the worst of the offenses, but as to Edith
>'using her position'...I don't think that Edith is doing that, at least not
>intentionally. The guy may be hooked by the titillation of access to high
>fruit, but I don't think that she has even considered that as a part of his
>motivation.
Actually, Edith may not be pretty, but (as nobody but yours truly seems to
have noticed) she easily has the hottest bod on the show. Sybil's a
round-shouldered little dumpling and Mary's a stick figure.
If his morals are a bit loose, I can see him wanting to hit that out of
nothing but lust. His wife looks pretty worn out.
Jim G.
Jan 11, 2012, 2:44:04 PM1/11/12
to
Patty Winter sent the following on 10 Jan 2012 19:11:34 GMT:
I don't recall any mention of her after she had her interview in the
library (another moment when Dad proved to me how cool he is.) Was there
some follow-up to indicate that she had gotten the job, and all that?
library (another moment when Dad proved to me how cool he is.) Was there
some follow-up to indicate that she had gotten the job, and all that?
Jim G.
Jan 11, 2012, 2:44:04 PM1/11/12
to
Mason Barge sent the following on Tue, 10 Jan 2012 18:58:15 -0500:
Well, heck, if we're gonna add a bit of fun to the show, you already
know what I'd root for. Yep, a cat fight (and more) between Edith and
the farmer's wife. In the rain. Okay, no, that actually won't work for
me at all, as Edith is unattractive on pretty much every level these
days. I know! Sybil shows up to protect her sister in some way, and
*she* gets into the cat fight (and more) with the farmer's wife.
Yeah, that's much better.
know what I'd root for. Yep, a cat fight (and more) between Edith and
the farmer's wife. In the rain. Okay, no, that actually won't work for
me at all, as Edith is unattractive on pretty much every level these
days. I know! Sybil shows up to protect her sister in some way, and
*she* gets into the cat fight (and more) with the farmer's wife.
Yeah, that's much better.
Jim G.
Jan 11, 2012, 2:44:04 PM1/11/12
to
Mason Barge sent the following on Tue, 10 Jan 2012 18:54:10 -0500:
prettier.
> Mary's smarter and has some street creds. She really would be the perfect
> person to run a place like Downton.
I don't know that we've seen anything to indicate Sybil's intelligence,
whether on its own or relative to Mary's. The only thing that stands out
is that Sybil doesn't pretend to know things that she doesn't know.
> On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 17:45:22 -0500, "Obveeus" <Obv...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Mason Barge" <mason...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Or brains or personality. AFAIK, Mary doesn't have any advantages over
> >> the younger sisters as far as aristocratic oomph. She might have a larger
> >> settlement - I dunno'.
> >
> >She must have a larger settlement...or the only settlement. Otherwise,
> >there would be no reason for guys to be lining up (before the rumors) for
> >Mary while none are interested in the youngest, Sybil.
>
> Well, we all love Sybil. But I can easily see how a powerful English
> up-and-comer would have a clear preference for Mary.
When Mary came with a huge payday, sure. But Sybil is far nicer and far
>
> >
> >"Mason Barge" <mason...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Or brains or personality. AFAIK, Mary doesn't have any advantages over
> >> the younger sisters as far as aristocratic oomph. She might have a larger
> >> settlement - I dunno'.
> >
> >She must have a larger settlement...or the only settlement. Otherwise,
> >there would be no reason for guys to be lining up (before the rumors) for
> >Mary while none are interested in the youngest, Sybil.
>
> Well, we all love Sybil. But I can easily see how a powerful English
> up-and-comer would have a clear preference for Mary.
prettier.
> Mary's smarter and has some street creds. She really would be the perfect
> person to run a place like Downton.
whether on its own or relative to Mary's. The only thing that stands out
is that Sybil doesn't pretend to know things that she doesn't know.
Jim G.
Jan 11, 2012, 2:44:04 PM1/11/12
to
Mason Barge sent the following on Tue, 10 Jan 2012 19:05:02 -0500:
> But she did submit.
I think you misspelled "actively participate." :)
> And personally, I think kissing a married man like that is way worse than
> a bit of heavy petting, even by Victorian standards. Well, maybe a tie by
> Victorian standards, sigh.
Yeah, that's an interesting morality question. In those days, which
would have been worse: kissing a married man (in that way) or bedding an
unmarried one?
> By modern standards, Edith's sin is much worse than Mary's.
Agreed. Heck, I wonder how many people under the age of 70 would even
consider what Mary did to be a mortal sin nowadays?
> I mean, not
> just the implication of adultery, but using the extreme difference in
> social and financial position to get her ya-ya's.
IMO, the latter would really only be an issue if she didn't truly care
for the man. If she were using her higher social status as a form of
rape, or some such thing.
> >> She's a hypocrite for sure.
> >
> >True, but it's a reminder for me that, even with hypocrisy, there are
> >varying degrees.
>
> That's pretty much 100% in my book.
Well, she hasn't slept with the guy yet, and she does seem to have
genuine feelings for him, as opposed to Mary simply wanting to scratch
that itch.
> >> I miss Gwen too, but I think Ethel is a riot. Yes, very annoying, but
> >> she's certainly getting paid back for her irritating personality!
> >
> >The hazing has been funny and would be even funnier if O'Brien weren't
> >the one behind it. And it's great that the upstairs folks seem to get a
> >kick out of it, even though they clearly know what's going on.
>
> Well, you notice that the Earl has to tell Carson not to take action.
> Carson would have had O'Brien's head on a silver platter.
I suspect that that is partly because Carson will always remain
professional even when his heart may not be in it, and partly because
he, too, sees O'Brien for what she is.
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 12:57:26 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >Mason Barge sent the following on Mon, 09 Jan 2012 15:01:23 -0500:
> >
>
> >Mason Barge sent the following on Mon, 09 Jan 2012 15:01:23 -0500:
> >
> >> After calling Mary a "slut", she's kissing
> >> someone's husband, and a tenant farmer, to boot.
> >
> >True, but at least her deal developed over a bit of time and seemed to
> >be accompanied by genuine feelings for the guy. And it *was* just a
> >kiss. Mary, OTOH, didn't know Pretty Boy from Adam, but she had an itch
> >that she wanted to scratch and she scratched it. Scratched it hard
> >enough to kill the guy, even. :)
>
> In all fairness, she was seduced fairly forcibly.
Oh, c'mon. She could have snapped that pretty little boy like a twig.
> >> someone's husband, and a tenant farmer, to boot.
> >
> >True, but at least her deal developed over a bit of time and seemed to
> >be accompanied by genuine feelings for the guy. And it *was* just a
> >kiss. Mary, OTOH, didn't know Pretty Boy from Adam, but she had an itch
> >that she wanted to scratch and she scratched it. Scratched it hard
> >enough to kill the guy, even. :)
>
> In all fairness, she was seduced fairly forcibly.
> But she did submit.
I think you misspelled "actively participate." :)
> And personally, I think kissing a married man like that is way worse than
> a bit of heavy petting, even by Victorian standards. Well, maybe a tie by
> Victorian standards, sigh.
would have been worse: kissing a married man (in that way) or bedding an
unmarried one?
> By modern standards, Edith's sin is much worse than Mary's.
consider what Mary did to be a mortal sin nowadays?
> I mean, not
> just the implication of adultery, but using the extreme difference in
> social and financial position to get her ya-ya's.
for the man. If she were using her higher social status as a form of
rape, or some such thing.
> >> She's a hypocrite for sure.
> >
> >True, but it's a reminder for me that, even with hypocrisy, there are
> >varying degrees.
>
> That's pretty much 100% in my book.
genuine feelings for him, as opposed to Mary simply wanting to scratch
that itch.
> >> I miss Gwen too, but I think Ethel is a riot. Yes, very annoying, but
> >> she's certainly getting paid back for her irritating personality!
> >
> >The hazing has been funny and would be even funnier if O'Brien weren't
> >the one behind it. And it's great that the upstairs folks seem to get a
> >kick out of it, even though they clearly know what's going on.
>
> Well, you notice that the Earl has to tell Carson not to take action.
> Carson would have had O'Brien's head on a silver platter.
professional even when his heart may not be in it, and partly because
he, too, sees O'Brien for what she is.
Patty Winter
Jan 11, 2012, 4:03:48 PM1/11/12
to
In article <gdorg79b314b7j3n2...@4ax.com>,
Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
>Patty Winter sent the following on 10 Jan 2012 19:11:34 GMT:
>>
>> In article <mc1pg7h5hfsg0gp5j...@4ax.com>,
>> Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >I wonder if we'll see Gwen again. Given that her story didn't really
>> >have a complete ending that we saw, I'm guessing that we just might see
>> >more of her.
>>
>> How so that her story didn't have a complete ending?
>
>I don't recall any mention of her after she had her interview in the
>library (another moment when Dad proved to me how cool he is.) Was there
>some follow-up to indicate that she had gotten the job, and all that?
Yes. She goes to work for the telephone seller. Sybil tells her the
>Patty Winter sent the following on 10 Jan 2012 19:11:34 GMT:
>>
>> In article <mc1pg7h5hfsg0gp5j...@4ax.com>,
>> Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >I wonder if we'll see Gwen again. Given that her story didn't really
>> >have a complete ending that we saw, I'm guessing that we just might see
>> >more of her.
>>
>> How so that her story didn't have a complete ending?
>
>I don't recall any mention of her after she had her interview in the
>library (another moment when Dad proved to me how cool he is.) Was there
>some follow-up to indicate that she had gotten the job, and all that?
good news at the garden party.
Patty
~consul
Jan 11, 2012, 4:20:16 PM1/11/12
to
'tis on 11 Jan 2012 21:03:48 GMT, wrote Patty Winter thus to essay our thoughts to discern upon,
The house gets a call, the chauffer answers and he runs to find Sybil, and they run together to tell Gwen and they do a charming group hug. I think the cook says, "congrats but lets celebrate after the party." or something like that.
Jim G.
Jan 11, 2012, 5:41:01 PM1/11/12
to
~consul sent the following on Wed, 11 Jan 2012 13:20:16 -0800:
> 'tis on 11 Jan 2012 21:03:48 GMT, wrote Patty Winter thus to essay our thoughts to discern upon,
> -------- Original Message --------
> > In article<gdorg79b314b7j3n2...@4ax.com>,
> > Jim G.<jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> I don't recall any mention of her after she had her interview in the
> >> library (another moment when Dad proved to me how cool he is.) Was there
> >> some follow-up to indicate that she had gotten the job, and all that?
> > Yes. She goes to work for the telephone seller. Sybil tells her the
> > good news at the garden party.
>
> The house gets a call, the chauffer answers and he runs to find Sybil, and they run together to tell Gwen and they do a charming group hug. I think the cook says, "congrats but lets celebrate after the party." or something like that.
Thanks for the info!
> -------- Original Message --------
> > In article<gdorg79b314b7j3n2...@4ax.com>,
> > Jim G.<jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> I don't recall any mention of her after she had her interview in the
> >> library (another moment when Dad proved to me how cool he is.) Was there
> >> some follow-up to indicate that she had gotten the job, and all that?
> > Yes. She goes to work for the telephone seller. Sybil tells her the
> > good news at the garden party.
>
> The house gets a call, the chauffer answers and he runs to find Sybil, and they run together to tell Gwen and they do a charming group hug. I think the cook says, "congrats but lets celebrate after the party." or something like that.
Jim G.
Jan 11, 2012, 5:41:01 PM1/11/12
to
Patty Winter sent the following on 11 Jan 2012 21:03:48 GMT:
This is the problem when you watch something live, with other people who
all seem to have varying degrees of ADHD. You miss a lot of stuff.
Thanks for the update!
all seem to have varying degrees of ADHD. You miss a lot of stuff.
Thanks for the update!
Patty Winter
Jan 11, 2012, 6:21:25 PM1/11/12
to
In article <jv3sg79ndvkh48dkn...@4ax.com>,
Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
>Patty Winter sent the following on 11 Jan 2012 21:03:48 GMT:
>>
>Patty Winter sent the following on 11 Jan 2012 21:03:48 GMT:
>>
>> Yes. She goes to work for the telephone seller. Sybil tells her the
>> good news at the garden party.
>
>This is the problem when you watch something live, with other people who
>all seem to have varying degrees of ADHD. You miss a lot of stuff.
The garden party was an especially eventful scene, so it would
>> good news at the garden party.
>
>This is the problem when you watch something live, with other people who
>all seem to have varying degrees of ADHD. You miss a lot of stuff.
have been easy to miss a quick segment like this.
Patty
Mason Barge
Jan 11, 2012, 7:47:52 PM1/11/12
to
and down.
Actually I think Anna was with them. A three-way!
tomcervo
Jan 11, 2012, 8:01:52 PM1/11/12
to
On Jan 11, 2:38 pm, Mason Barge <masonba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 20:36:19 -0500, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollywoodHomely
Walk around waiting for another insult from your sister or your father
("And this is daughter #2" in the Red Noses parody, but the casual
assumption that she will care for them in their old age may be even
crueller) and you'll have the same whipped dog air. Even so, she's no
candidate for the Glenda Jackson biopic.
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 20:36:19 -0500, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
Walk around waiting for another insult from your sister or your father
("And this is daughter #2" in the Red Noses parody, but the casual
assumption that she will care for them in their old age may be even
crueller) and you'll have the same whipped dog air. Even so, she's no
candidate for the Glenda Jackson biopic.
tomcervo
Jan 11, 2012, 8:18:29 PM1/11/12
to
On Jan 9, 5:31 pm, Mason Barge <masonba...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 15:35:37 -0500, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
> >in every effort to land a rich, name husband. She just isn't in the prime
> >position (inheritance line or looks) to get the attention that Mary does.
>
> No need for a take. Edith spells it out in S.1 Ep. 1; she was in love
> with Patrick and her dislike of Mary stems from Mary not loving him and
> yet not getting out of the way so that Edith could have a shot at him. She
> was still sufficiently bitter about it that she was all over Mary for not
> wearing her mourning attire longer.
>
> The prescribed period of mourning for a cousin was (apparently) less than
> for a fiance, and Grantham told Mary that since the engagement had not
> been announced, she could choose whether to mourn Patrick as cousin or
> fiance. She, of course, chose the shorter mourning period which just
> pissed Edith off, all over again.
And not only Edith.
Mary had almost no feeling for Patrick, unlike Edith who seemed
genuinely moved at his death. But she was quite ready to marry him to
get her hands on those big tracts o' land. She's ready to marry
Matthew for the same reason, until he looks be to out of the
inheritance, and then it's Let's Not Be So Hasty.
If you meet a woman like that in read life, pray that you rumble her
before it's too late--fetching astigmatism or not.
> On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 15:35:37 -0500, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> Why would you think that she was virtuous? Jealous and petty, sure.
> >>> Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing
> >>> hinted
> >>> at that for me.
>
> >>> Forgotten and unattractive (by comparison), sure. Virtuous? Nothing
> >>> hinted
> >>> at that for me.
>
> >>Edith called Mary a slut for her tryst with the Turkish guy. Until
> >>this episode, Edith seemed to be the one willing to play by the rules
> >>and settle for a traditional life. She was even happy about the
> >>prospect of marrying that dull older guy.
>
> >He wasn't dull to her, but to be sure, yes, she is scrambling just like Mary
> >>this episode, Edith seemed to be the one willing to play by the rules
> >>and settle for a traditional life. She was even happy about the
> >>prospect of marrying that dull older guy.
>
> >in every effort to land a rich, name husband. She just isn't in the prime
> >position (inheritance line or looks) to get the attention that Mary does.
>
> Or brains or personality. AFAIK, Mary doesn't have any advantages over
> the younger sisters as far as aristocratic oomph. She might have a larger
> settlement - I dunno'.
>
> Or brains or personality. AFAIK, Mary doesn't have any advantages over
> the younger sisters as far as aristocratic oomph. She might have a larger
> settlement - I dunno'.
>
> >> She often accused Mary of
> >>being too obvious in baiting men, and she was bitter about Mary's
> >>eagerness to get out of mourning clothes after Patrick died. It
> >>seemed disrespectful to her.
>
> >My take on that was that Edith had a thing for Patrick.
> >>being too obvious in baiting men, and she was bitter about Mary's
> >>eagerness to get out of mourning clothes after Patrick died. It
> >>seemed disrespectful to her.
>
>
> No need for a take. Edith spells it out in S.1 Ep. 1; she was in love
> with Patrick and her dislike of Mary stems from Mary not loving him and
> yet not getting out of the way so that Edith could have a shot at him. She
> was still sufficiently bitter about it that she was all over Mary for not
> wearing her mourning attire longer.
>
> The prescribed period of mourning for a cousin was (apparently) less than
> for a fiance, and Grantham told Mary that since the engagement had not
> been announced, she could choose whether to mourn Patrick as cousin or
> fiance. She, of course, chose the shorter mourning period which just
> pissed Edith off, all over again.
And not only Edith.
Mary had almost no feeling for Patrick, unlike Edith who seemed
genuinely moved at his death. But she was quite ready to marry him to
get her hands on those big tracts o' land. She's ready to marry
Matthew for the same reason, until he looks be to out of the
inheritance, and then it's Let's Not Be So Hasty.
If you meet a woman like that in read life, pray that you rumble her
before it's too late--fetching astigmatism or not.
Jim G.
Jan 11, 2012, 8:40:51 PM1/11/12
to
Mason Barge sent the following on Wed, 11 Jan 2012 19:47:52 -0500:
Now I'm *really* upset that I missed that bit.
> Actually I think Anna was with them. A three-way!
Okay, now you're just being evil.
(Actually, none of Anna's appeal to me lies in her ability to jump up
and down, but I feel that I have an obligation to keep the theme alive.)
> Actually I think Anna was with them. A three-way!
(Actually, none of Anna's appeal to me lies in her ability to jump up
and down, but I feel that I have an obligation to keep the theme alive.)
Jim G.
Jan 11, 2012, 8:40:51 PM1/11/12
to
Patty Winter sent the following on 11 Jan 2012 23:21:25 GMT:
Yeah, a lot of things were playing out at that point, IIRC. It's kind of
funny to see how people can *usually* hide their ADHD (as I put it) when
there are commercial breaks available (or a pause button on a DVR), but
they out themselves in a big, big way when you watch something live,
relatively long, and commercial-free with them. Some folks have a
personal mute button that tops out at ten minutes or less...
funny to see how people can *usually* hide their ADHD (as I put it) when
there are commercial breaks available (or a pause button on a DVR), but
they out themselves in a big, big way when you watch something live,
relatively long, and commercial-free with them. Some folks have a
personal mute button that tops out at ten minutes or less...
tomcervo
Jan 12, 2012, 10:09:45 AM1/12/12
to
On Jan 10, 8:53 pm, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com> wrote:
> "Charles Bishop" <ctbis...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > In article <jefevm$bh...@dont-email.me>, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com>
in London, there was much more for the servants to do. Rose became a
bus conductor and Ruby went to work in a munitions factory--if you
knew how clumsy Ruby was, that almost seemed like a joke.
> "Charles Bishop" <ctbis...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > In article <jefevm$bh...@dont-email.me>, "Obveeus" <Obve...@aol.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>They replaced one maid with a desire for more in life with another. Two
> >>years of war and women's rights pushing has simply left the house with a
> >>less mousy go-getter this time.
>
> > Isn't this part of the history? That the war(s) provided servants with
> > more to do, with their limited education, than be servants? Is that why
> > we're being shown them moving on?
>
> Good point. That does seem a likely process, just as the 'Rosie the
> Riveter' process for American women in WWII.
Again, all this was covered in "Upstairs Downstairs". Since it was set
>
> >>They replaced one maid with a desire for more in life with another. Two
> >>years of war and women's rights pushing has simply left the house with a
> >>less mousy go-getter this time.
>
> > Isn't this part of the history? That the war(s) provided servants with
> > more to do, with their limited education, than be servants? Is that why
> > we're being shown them moving on?
>
> Good point. That does seem a likely process, just as the 'Rosie the
> Riveter' process for American women in WWII.
in London, there was much more for the servants to do. Rose became a
bus conductor and Ruby went to work in a munitions factory--if you
knew how clumsy Ruby was, that almost seemed like a joke.
Charles H. Sampson
Jan 12, 2012, 12:17:04 PM1/12/12
to
Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Patty Winter sent the following on 11 Jan 2012 23:21:25 GMT:
> >
> > In article <jv3sg79ndvkh48dkn...@4ax.com>,
> > Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > >Patty Winter sent the following on 11 Jan 2012 21:03:48 GMT:
> > >>
> > >> Yes. She goes to work for the telephone seller. Sybil tells her the
> > >> good news at the garden party.
> > >
> > >This is the problem when you watch something live, with other people who
> > >all seem to have varying degrees of ADHD. You miss a lot of stuff.
> >
> > The garden party was an especially eventful scene, so it would
> > have been easy to miss a quick segment like this.
>
> Yeah, a lot of things were playing out at that point, IIRC. It's kind of
> funny to see how people can *usually* hide their ADHD (as I put it) when
> there are commercial breaks available (or a pause button on a DVR), but
> they out themselves in a big, big way when you watch something live,
> relatively long, and commercial-free with them. Some folks have a
> personal mute button that tops out at ten minutes or less...
Let me give another example of this puzzling phenomenom. My wife
> Patty Winter sent the following on 11 Jan 2012 23:21:25 GMT:
> >
> > In article <jv3sg79ndvkh48dkn...@4ax.com>,
> > Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
> > >Patty Winter sent the following on 11 Jan 2012 21:03:48 GMT:
> > >>
> > >> Yes. She goes to work for the telephone seller. Sybil tells her the
> > >> good news at the garden party.
> > >
> > >This is the problem when you watch something live, with other people who
> > >all seem to have varying degrees of ADHD. You miss a lot of stuff.
> >
> > The garden party was an especially eventful scene, so it would
> > have been easy to miss a quick segment like this.
>
> Yeah, a lot of things were playing out at that point, IIRC. It's kind of
> funny to see how people can *usually* hide their ADHD (as I put it) when
> there are commercial breaks available (or a pause button on a DVR), but
> they out themselves in a big, big way when you watch something live,
> relatively long, and commercial-free with them. Some folks have a
> personal mute button that tops out at ten minutes or less...
and I went to a theater to see Hugo a few days ago. We sat and watched
it almost motionless for all of its 2 hours and 7 minutes length. Yet
when we watch almost anything on the DVD at home longer than a 30 minute
sitcom, she can't make it without going to the bathroom, getting a snack
in the kitchen, etc. ????
Charlie
--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)
chicagofan
Jan 12, 2012, 1:07:51 PM1/12/12
to
Patty Winter wrote:
> In article<MPG.2975fbac8...@news.individual.net>,
>
Indeed!
I was so disappointed to see that I was wrong about O'Brien being
dismissed last season. I was so sure she had gotten caught doing
something [not as bad as the soap business] and had been finally been
fired. :(
Hate to see Thomas crawling about again this season too.
bj
> In article<MPG.2975fbac8...@news.individual.net>,
> Stan Brown<the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>> On 09 Jan 2012 17:02:54 GMT, Patty Winter wrote:
>>
>>> (Although
>>> presumably O'Brien has mellowed a bit after her last sabotage turned
>>> out to be for for a mistaken reason.)
>>>
>> I've watched only about the first 40 minutes so far, but I thought
>> she still seemed pretty evil with the trick she played on Ethel.
>>
> I said she'd mellowed "a bit." Humiliating a new maid isn't on par
> with causing a miscarriage...
>
>
> Patty
>
>> On 09 Jan 2012 17:02:54 GMT, Patty Winter wrote:
>>
>>> (Although
>>> presumably O'Brien has mellowed a bit after her last sabotage turned
>>> out to be for for a mistaken reason.)
>>>
>> I've watched only about the first 40 minutes so far, but I thought
>> she still seemed pretty evil with the trick she played on Ethel.
>>
> I said she'd mellowed "a bit." Humiliating a new maid isn't on par
> with causing a miscarriage...
>
>
>
Indeed!
I was so disappointed to see that I was wrong about O'Brien being
dismissed last season. I was so sure she had gotten caught doing
something [not as bad as the soap business] and had been finally been
fired. :(
Hate to see Thomas crawling about again this season too.
bj
Mason Barge
Jan 12, 2012, 5:13:50 PM1/12/12
to
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:18:29 -0800 (PST), tomcervo
<paradi...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
expected, that an aristocratic woman would marry to improve the family and
not for love. She would have been a good wife for him, I imagine.
Edith loved Patrick, no doubt. Also the old knight down the road, the
local tenant farmer, and who knows what next. And do you think *Edith*
would have minded being Countess Grantham?
<paradi...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
>>
>> No need for a take. Edith spells it out in S.1 Ep. 1; she was in love
>> with Patrick and her dislike of Mary stems from Mary not loving him and
>> yet not getting out of the way so that Edith could have a shot at him. She
>> was still sufficiently bitter about it that she was all over Mary for not
>> wearing her mourning attire longer.
>>
>> The prescribed period of mourning for a cousin was (apparently) less than
>> for a fiance, and Grantham told Mary that since the engagement had not
>> been announced, she could choose whether to mourn Patrick as cousin or
>> fiance. She, of course, chose the shorter mourning period which just
>> pissed Edith off, all over again.
>
>And not only Edith.
>Mary had almost no feeling for Patrick, unlike Edith who seemed
>genuinely moved at his death. But she was quite ready to marry him to
>get her hands on those big tracts o' land. She's ready to marry
>Matthew for the same reason, until he looks be to out of the
>inheritance, and then it's Let's Not Be So Hasty.
>If you meet a woman like that in read life, pray that you rumble her
>before it's too late--fetching astigmatism or not.
Eh, you're too hard on her. It was completely approved, and even
>> No need for a take. Edith spells it out in S.1 Ep. 1; she was in love
>> with Patrick and her dislike of Mary stems from Mary not loving him and
>> yet not getting out of the way so that Edith could have a shot at him. She
>> was still sufficiently bitter about it that she was all over Mary for not
>> wearing her mourning attire longer.
>>
>> The prescribed period of mourning for a cousin was (apparently) less than
>> for a fiance, and Grantham told Mary that since the engagement had not
>> been announced, she could choose whether to mourn Patrick as cousin or
>> fiance. She, of course, chose the shorter mourning period which just
>> pissed Edith off, all over again.
>
>And not only Edith.
>Mary had almost no feeling for Patrick, unlike Edith who seemed
>genuinely moved at his death. But she was quite ready to marry him to
>get her hands on those big tracts o' land. She's ready to marry
>Matthew for the same reason, until he looks be to out of the
>inheritance, and then it's Let's Not Be So Hasty.
>If you meet a woman like that in read life, pray that you rumble her
>before it's too late--fetching astigmatism or not.
expected, that an aristocratic woman would marry to improve the family and
not for love. She would have been a good wife for him, I imagine.
Edith loved Patrick, no doubt. Also the old knight down the road, the
local tenant farmer, and who knows what next. And do you think *Edith*
would have minded being Countess Grantham?
Mason Barge
Jan 12, 2012, 5:17:05 PM1/12/12
to
around barefoot. She has that schoolgirl innocence.
The redhead, on the other hand, gives me thoughts of rough trade in her
father's haystack!
Mason Barge
Jan 12, 2012, 5:19:35 PM1/12/12
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of opportunities for distraction.
My wife is just the same.
Mason Barge
Jan 12, 2012, 5:21:24 PM1/12/12
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On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 13:07:51 -0500, chicagofan <chica...@privacy.net>
wrote:
I'd only be happy if they both go to prison.
O'Brien actually committed a felony that would get her 10 years.
wrote:
O'Brien actually committed a felony that would get her 10 years.
Stephen Newport
Jan 13, 2012, 12:11:44 AM1/13/12
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From: chica...@privacy.net (chicagofan) I was so disappointed to see
SN: She's more interesting this season. I liked her "power behind the
throne" scenes.
http://community.webtv.net/NewportsRetro/SteveRhondasPetPics
that I was wrong about O'Brien being dismissed last season.
---------------------------------------
SN: She's more interesting this season. I liked her "power behind the
throne" scenes.
http://community.webtv.net/NewportsRetro/SteveRhondasPetPics
Jim G.
Jan 13, 2012, 2:03:10 PM1/13/12
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Mason Barge sent the following on Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:17:05 -0500:
Yep. Different kind of appeal. Not necessarily better or worse. Just
different.
> The redhead, on the other hand, gives me thoughts of rough trade in her
> father's haystack!
She seemed pretty demure to me. Are you sure that you aren't engaging in
a bit of retconning here? :)
different.
> The redhead, on the other hand, gives me thoughts of rough trade in her
> father's haystack!
a bit of retconning here? :)
Mason Barge
Jan 13, 2012, 5:10:22 PM1/13/12
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Jim G.
Jan 15, 2012, 4:56:38 PM1/15/12
to
Mason Barge sent the following on Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:10:22 -0500:
didn't seem to be *that* kind of redhead. :)
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:03:10 -0600, Jim G. <jimg...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> >Mason Barge sent the following on Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:17:05 -0500:
> >
>
> >Mason Barge sent the following on Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:17:05 -0500:
> >
> >> The redhead, on the other hand, gives me thoughts of rough trade in her
> >> father's haystack!
> >
> >She seemed pretty demure to me. Are you sure that you aren't engaging in
> >a bit of retconning here? :)
>
> Totally demure and innocent. A dormant volcano!!!!1!
It's true that you always have to watch out for the redheads, but Gwen
> >> father's haystack!
> >
> >She seemed pretty demure to me. Are you sure that you aren't engaging in
> >a bit of retconning here? :)
>
> Totally demure and innocent. A dormant volcano!!!!1!
didn't seem to be *that* kind of redhead. :)
tomcervo
Jan 15, 2012, 8:04:09 PM1/15/12
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On Jan 15, 4:56 pm, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
> Mason Barge sent the following on Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:10:22 -0500:
>
> Mason Barge sent the following on Fri, 13 Jan 2012 17:10:22 -0500:
>
> > On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:03:10 -0600, Jim G. <jimgy...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> > >Mason Barge sent the following on Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:17:05 -0500:
>
> > >> The redhead, on the other hand, gives me thoughts of rough trade in her
> > >> father's haystack!
>
> > >She seemed pretty demure to me. Are you sure that you aren't engaging in
> > >a bit of retconning here? :)
>
> > Totally demure and innocent. A dormant volcano!!!!1!
>
> It's true that you always have to watch out for the redheads, but Gwen
> didn't seem to be *that* kind of redhead. :)
There's her, and "Ginger Lavinia" as the British boards put it, and of
>
> > >Mason Barge sent the following on Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:17:05 -0500:
>
> > >> The redhead, on the other hand, gives me thoughts of rough trade in her
> > >> father's haystack!
>
> > >She seemed pretty demure to me. Are you sure that you aren't engaging in
> > >a bit of retconning here? :)
>
> > Totally demure and innocent. A dormant volcano!!!!1!
>
> It's true that you always have to watch out for the redheads, but Gwen
> didn't seem to be *that* kind of redhead. :)
course HRH Dame Maggie herself.
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