ER: "Fire in the Belly" Summary/Review

[Scott Hollifield]

E.R., Season 2, Episode 19, "Fire in the Belly"
Production number #457219
Written by: Paul Manning
Directed by: Felix Enriquez Alcala'

PLOT ONE: STITCHING UP
Peter Benton's day begins as he's told by Dr. Hicks that he's been
bumped from the round of surgery he was penned in for -- because the
doctor in charge refused to work with him. It seems Peter's reputation
as a traitorous ingrate has been spreading since he ratted on Doug Ross
several weeks ago, and he feels the sting of ostracism again when fellow
doctors desert his table at lunchtime. Later, Peter has a problem of a
different sort: Mrs. Mendoza, a woman whom Jeanie, with his approval,
sent home, is back with misdiagnosed appendicitis, and the delay in
diagnosis causes her organ to burst. Although she manages to pull
through, Peter confronts Jeanie about letting her go home earlier. He
eventually owns up to the mistake himself, however, especially after a
reproach from Hicks, who reminds him of the Doug Ross incident ("Reap
what you sow," she chides). Abashed, Peter admits his error to Mr.
Mendoza. Later, he slaps a bundle of papers in front of Dr. Hicks' face
-- its his evidence against Dr. Vucelich, and Peter is ready to go on
the record about it at last. "No more excuses," he says.

PLOT TWO: LET'S GET PHYSICAL
Shep's early-morning bid to Carol for them to both play hooky for a day
gets plea-bargained down to an hour of tardiness, but they both end up
wishing they'd stayed in bed after all. Carol tries to cope with a
young boy named Jeremy who's in shock from having witnessed his mother's
gunshot murder point-blank, and at one point, Jeremy escapes the staffs'
supervision and is found standing idly down the hall, staring at a
bloodied patient in another room. Later, a homeless man plastered in
commemorative buttons from head to toe is brought into the ER, and
without warning, goes berserk; Shep gets a scraped face for his trouble
in trying to restrain the man. While getting patched up, Shep bemoans
the chaotic state of urban society, and pointedly tells Carol: "We're
not raising our kids here." (Her response, after reflection, is a
pensive "Okay.") At the end of the day, Carol is accompanying Shep in
the ambulance when they run into some sort of disturbance on the street.
Without warning, a man tosses a brick at the ambulance's windshield,
which throws Shep into a frenzy; he leaps from the vehicle, tackles the
man and pummels him repeatedly in the face. When Carol tries to
restrain Shep, he abruptly turns to raise a fist at her, but stops
himself.

PLOT THREE: AND MOMMY MAKES TWO
Having decided to fight to prevent Chloe from visiting baby Susie, Susan
is meeting with her sister and a lawyer later in the day. First,
however, she has to contend with Ethel Garvey, a hostile, high-strung
patient whose interest lies in repeatedly asking to have her treatment
explained to her. Mrs. Garvey's attitude only worsens when she spies a
look at Susan's chart and sees all the nasty things Susan's written
about her. At wit's end, Susan uses a pen-and-paper diagram to
illustrate to Mrs. Garvey the consequences of not being treated, a
violent heart explosion punctuated by a flourish of jagged ink streaks
from Susan's pen. "You're a sick woman," demurs Mrs. Garvey at Susan's
display. Later, Susan happens by to see Kerry Weaver very patiently
explaining the procedure to Ethel with an elaborate chart on an easel.
Afterward, Kerry offers some friendly advice meant to apply to Susan's
"inflexibility" with patients: "If you feel yourself getting dug in,
call me." Luckily, Susan makes it out the other end of her "walking
anxiety attack", and meets with her dad outside the lawyer's office.
For weeks, Henry Lewis has been siding with Susan's case, but has now
changed his tune, and tells Susan that he believes Chloe has truly
changed. He also shares the revelation that Chloe's new beau Joe is a
policeman. Inside the office, the news doesn't get any better; Susan is
told by the attorney that Chloe will be given temporary visitation
rights until the adoption situation is sorted. Furthermore, Susan is
also bluntly told (when Chloe is out of the room) that if she insists in
pursuing the case against giving Chloe visitation rights, she will lose.
That evening at dinner, Susan has a chance to witness firsthand her
sister's new lifestyle. Joe is a nine-year recovering alcoholic as
well as a cop, and seems to be a strong pillar of support. Despite all,
Susan still tells Chloe that she's skeptical, but Chloe insists that the
thing she wants most in the world is to be a good mother to baby Susie.
After both woman lavish good-night kisses onto the baby, Susan watches
somberly as Chloe takes the baby up to bed.

PLOT FOUR: THE APPENDIX THAT WASN'T
Carter has reservations for himself and Harper on a moonlight dinner
cruise of Lake Michigan, but his romantic mood is hampered by the
intrusion of Dale, an old friend of Harper's who's just matched for his
surgical internship at Cook County, like Carter. Dale's last medical
port of call was Boston, where, Carter is startled to find out, the med
students get to do appendectomies (which Dale brushes off as "small
stuff"). Having never done an "appy", Carter is eager to mark his
territory--er, establish his dominance in the ER. To that end, he
insists on running the code for an incoming gunshot victim, but as luck
would have it, the woman is already dead. Harper's subsequent
revelation that she slept with Dale ("just once") sends Carter running
off to find an appendix that needs removing. Dr. Hicks lets him do one,
but again, Carter gets a bum deal; the patient's appendix is healthy and
all that needed removing was a toothpick. Hicks also takes a minute to
inform Carter about the hospital's new "pyramid system" for first-year
residents: they get ranked, from top to bottom, and the lowest third of
them get culled at the end of that first year. When he hears that Dale
has been promised the chance to run an incoming trauma in, Carter lures
Dale and Harper to lunch in the cafeteria, and posits himself to run the
trauma instead. Dale and Harper arrive just in time to see Carter
accompanying the patient up to surgery, but not before Harper aims a
vicious glare at him. After work, at the fairgrounds, a ticked-off
Harper informs Carter that their date -- and their relationship -- is
off. "You're a weasel!" she says, accusing him of being shamelessly
singleminded in his pursuit of procedures. She angrily stalks off,
leaving Carter with his only condolence being a balloon offered by a
mime.

PLOT FIVE: THE CAMERA NEVER LIES
Mark is still skittish about wading into the waters of single dating,
despite Doug's plan to set him up for a double date with Hulda and
"Inga". However, the winds of fate, namely Kerry Weaver's new
brainstorm of videotaping trauma procedures for critical analysis,
bring Mark together once again with Iris, the red-haired infomercial
director, who's at the hospital to head up the ER video crew.
Privately, Doug urges Mark to go for the gusto, but Mark reveals the
source for some of his reticence: Jenn is the only woman he's ever had
sex with, and he fears that he'll run into embarrassing obstacles if he
attempts intimacy with another woman, particularly one he's only just
met. Later, complimenting Mark on his physical condition, Iris tries to
flatter him into pitching an exercise program for her, and, as with
their last encounter, she works a dinner date into the agenda.
Unlike last time, Mark accepts, albeit belatedly, while Kerry is
screening a trauma videotape for everyone. Seconds after he and Iris
make their date, however, Mark is mortified when the videotape Kerry is
playing accidentally happens upon a mistakenly-recorded segment of
Mark's private conversation with Doug, concerning his sexual concerns.
Despite being gravely humiliated, Mark and Iris still go out, and even
make it into bed, an experience which apparently succeeds despite Mark's
worries. "I feel like I just plucked the virtue of a virgin," sighs
Iris contentedly.

MISCELLANEOUS THREADS:
Jeremy, the little boy who apparently witnessed his mother being shot by
an angry boyfriend (see PLOT TWO), is questioned at one point by a
detective. Doug sharply reproaches the detective for questioning the
traumatized boy; "you could have set him back weeks," he says. Later,
the detective returns and tells Doug and the other doctors the real
tragic story behind Jeremy's ordeal: it seems that Jeremy, hearing the
fight between his mom and her companion, retrieved a gun to protect his
mother, and ended up accidentally shooting her himself.

At one point during the day, Doug applies for a loan to pay for the
Bowmans' cancer treatment, which he pledged to do after failing to
detect the bone tumor in Mr. Bowman's grandson. His loan is turned down
(by a company whose motto is, "We lend money to anybody," Doug wryly
notes), but he receives twenty-five thousand dollars in cash from
another source: his father. At first, he loudly declaims that he's
going to return the money, because keeping it would mean having to say
"thank you", but in the end, Doug apparently decides he's going to do
the latter, and pays a visit to Ray's apartment. Ray is out for the
night, but staying there is Karen, the blonde companion whom Doug found
with Ray on the night that Ray stood Doug up. She coyly ducks Doug's
insinuation that she's sleeping with his father, and instead asks Doug
what he's doing there, as she draws the blinds. "I have no idea," says
Doug, after a sip of scotch.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

A very tightly packed episode, as May sweeps -- and the
concluding arc of the show's second season -- rolls out of the station.

What goes around, comes around, and Peter's attitude reaches a
significant curve this week. Still wallowing in guilt and indecision
resultant from the hypocricy he exhibited in busting Doug last month,
Peter receives a welcome chance for redemption. In fact, I'm almost
inclined to argue that the Mendozas' situation was perhaps TOO
convenient, as the morals of it roughly paralleled the Bowman case.
After some soul-searching, and a pre-emptive attempt to lash out at
Jeanie, which didn't take, Peter is given the opportunity to rectify his
mistake by coming clean about his own misjudgement, thus balancing his
scales somewhat. I love this show, but one of its few, slight dramatic
flaws is that sometimes the characters are given cut-and-dried scenarios
from which to clear the slate of their troubled souls. However, it's a
testament to the intelligence of the writing that the characters stay
constantly evolving, so I don't think we can fault them too much for
this, since there's always somewhere new to go. Peter is in the
process of reaching a new plateau, emotionally; in his own way, he still
has as many personal obstacles to overcome as Carter, and the road to
becoming a more mature physician is by taking responsibility such as we
saw him do this week. That notwithstanding, I was still somewhat
surprised to see Peter suddenly passionate about the Vucelich affair
again, on which I thought he'd all but given up. I also noted the irony
inherent in the fact that, after being snubbed by his fellow doctors for
snitching on one of them, he's finally prepared to do the same thing yet
again, this time in the cause of honor. The fact that Dr. Hicks played
such a large role in this episode makes me hope that we see both her and
Vucelich as May progresses, and that it'll be something a little more
complicated than Peter and his new moral second wind suddenly snatching
victory from defeat in the final hour.

Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the
effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep
revealing himself as an abusive type. At the time, I didn't believe it,
because I simply didn't see it up there on the screen; Shep is a bounder
and a lug, but he's no monster. The harrowing final scene that Carol
and Shep shared this week, however, provided a possible stepping stone
to making that rumor a reality, and true to the promise of this show,
did so with no small amount of believability. In a cast of flawed
characters, Shep is one of the most obviously flawed, and one of his
chief problems is that he's overprotective -- not just in a mother hen
sense, but aggressively so. This week, we catch a glimpse of one of
that seed's awful side effects, as Shep's righteous, out-of-control rage
is turned, for a very tiny split second, back onto Carol, his protected.
If the writers follow through here in the same mode as the delivery,
Shep's characterization, and his relationship with Carol, could take a
sudden turn into the darkly complicated. He was no doubt traumatized by
the death of his treasured partner in "The Healers", and we're hearing
him constantly rail at the simpleness of his new rookie Reilly, but
there seems to be something deeper picking at Shep's soul. Given the
ease with which Shep seems to flare, it may be that his exterior fire is
symptomatic of an inner battle he's waging with himself. He declares
that this violent, decaying city is not going to be the place where he
and Carol raise kids -- but what can his psyche make of the fact that he
himself helps flame the violence when thrust into the situation we saw?
With that sort of private demon waiting in the wings, not even the quiet
of a suburb will be able to protect a child of his.

Likely, not many people were surprised at the turn of events in
Susan's battle to keep baby Susie. For weeks now, the show has been
signalling a new era of respectability for Chloe; this week, this
plot finally lays its cards on the table, and it's just what we were
expecting. Hopefully, the more concrete evidence in favor of Chloe's
new leaf will help turn the minds of some net people who insist that
Susan and only Susan should get to have custody of the baby. The
conflict, then, turns its focus to how gracefully Susan will give up
what she's fought to gain. I think an important element to note is that
Chloe is still not getting custody of the baby -- what she's asking for,
and seemingly is content with (for now) is mere visitation rights.
Judging from a significant piece of that last scene in the kitchen, I'd
certainly be willing to label this a happy ending of a kind: not one but
two loving mother-figures with a willing abundance of love to give to
this baby, while a potentially supportive father-figure awaits in the
next room. The sad, yearning look that Susan evokes at the close of the
episode (as Chloe lullabys baby Susie with "Blackbird" -- nice touch,
that) is a signal that Susan still wants to be a mother for the child,
perhaps THE mother. If there's still going to be tension there, then
the writers will have to milk it for these last few weeks of the season,
or come up with something out of left field.

All season long, now, Harper has tolerated Carter's relentless
pursuit of advancement in the ER, sometimes at her expense (as with the
Vucelich study), but this week, he combines it with a new element of
jealousy, and the mixture proves to be too much for her. Most have
probably heard by now that Christine Elise will not be returning to the
show next season, and this seems to provide her with a pretty clean
getaway. The fact that Carter's foibles finally drove even Harper away
should not escape the attention of those who've said that it's Carter
who's too good for Harper. Meanwhile, all I've got to say is that while
his pathetic stunt of oneupmanship is pretty typical of the Carter we've
seen lately, the new stripe of jealousy wears even less attractively on
him. Carter strives to such lengths for such an empty goal; he was the
one taking Harper on a moonlight cruise, for pete's sake, so Dale was
less than a non-threat. It looks as if the vow of changing his ways in
"The Match Game" really didn't take, or if it did, it's a delayed effect
of Dopplerian scale.

Mark's adventures this week felt like a very conscious sequel to
his scenes in the aforementioned "The Match Game", punctuated by the
return of Joanna Gleason as Iris, the aptly-named video camera maven. I
admit, I expected Mark to pass her over in favor of Kathy Snyder (who is
inexplicably "not [Mark's] type", as a line of dialogue relates this
week); as I see it, Iris happened to be in the right place at the right
time. This may be merely a pleasant signpost on Mark's route back into
singlehood, but if his relationship with Iris is going to amount to
anything more than a couple of casual bedroom scenes, the writers are
going to have to give her character more screen time, more attention,
and more depth. Personally, I suppose I tentatively approve of his
current choice in companions, since Joanna Gleason, while winsomely
attractive, is not a model-beauty like Sherry Stringfield or Christine
Elise, and thus by her very presence adds a dimension of refreshing
normality. I'm curious to see how high will reach the howls of outrage
that Saint Mark has lept into bed so quickly, particularly with a woman
who isn't Susan Lewis -- but to these, I say, relax... there's plenty of
time.

Speaking of leaping into bed with strange women, Doug seems
poised to do just that, and with the added bite of his mate being a
possible steal from the despised old man. The scene with Karen in the
apartment had the same edgy tang of Doug playing pool with Ray some
weeks back; once again, Doug declines to drink and ends up with a glass
in his hand and trouble on the horizon. Aside from vague speculation by
the press that Marg Helgenberger is lined up to be his new love (or
whatever) interest, I literally have no idea where this story will lead
in the weeks to come.

Some assorted comments:

-Speaking of Marg Helgenberger, she is a welcome sight on this
show. Her slyly seductive performance, even in those few minutes of
screen time, comes across effortlessly, and I happen to think she fits
this show like a glove.

-Dr. Hicks' ominous pronouncements concerning the "pyramid
system" of weeding out interns struck me as primarily the tension device
that Carter will have to overcome to stay on the show come this time
next season. How's that for foreshadowing?

-I didn't mention it in the main summary, but I found fairly
significant Jeanie's side of the argument she had with Peter: she
attributes his standoffishness to him not being over their breakup.
Peter looks at her and says, "I am past it -- way past it" -- and you
know, I think that he means it, or at least he thinks he means it. If
my theory is correct, it connects to an incident early this season where
Jeanie misattributed a conflict she had with Peter to their
relationship, when it was, in the end, really just Peter being Peter. I
have a small hunch that Jeanie is suffering from the same mild delusion
here, and if so, it's an interesting character aspect that raises some
puzzling implications (does Jeanie's Peter-myopia mean that she
subconsciously wants to get back together with him? - to name one). Of
course, I could well be dead wrong, and Peter still does harbor feelings
for her. Time will tell.

-She didn't figure very highly into the episode, but Kerry
Weaver's time on-camera was quintessential Kerryesque. The idea of
videotaping the trauma procedures could have only come from her, and her
quirky sense of humor exhibited when she took pleasure from playing and
replaying Carter's unhygienic misstep.

-Prior to the closing credits, a screen dedicated the episode
"for Paul Leder", whom I would deduce to be a relative and/or loved one
of frequent episode director Mimi Leder who may have passed away. If
this is so, and if anyone is reading this has any sort of contact with
Ms. Leder, please convey my deep sympathies.

-Line of the week --
Carol: (referring to homeless man in waiting room)
"Who does this belong to?"

-Line of the week (2) --
Reilly: (reading button) "'All the Way with LBJ'? What's that
about?"

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Hollifield * sco...@cris.com * http://www.cris.com/~scotth/

[David Mix Barrington]

Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote:
: E.R., Season 2, Episode 19, "Fire in the Belly"

Great review as always -- a few nitpicks and comments:

: [...] Carol tries to cope with a

: young boy named Jeremy who's in shock from having witnessed his mother's
: gunshot murder point-blank, and at one point, Jeremy escapes the staffs'
: supervision and is found standing idly down the hall, staring at a
: bloodied patient in another room.

This patient was in fact his dead mother, the "DB" that pathology didn't
have room for and who was put in Treatment 3 on Kerry's order.

: PLOT THREE: AND MOMMY MAKES TWO

: Having decided to fight to prevent Chloe from visiting baby Susie, Susan
: is meeting with her sister and a lawyer later in the day.

^^^^^^

I think this person was some sort of judge rather than just a lawyer. (Were
you misled by Susan's earlier line, which I caught as "I haven't got a
lawyer yet"?) I don't know about Illinois, but in both New York and
Wisconsin (where I have relatives who are lawyers) most routine custody
cases are heard first by a "hearing examiner" or "magistrate" -- essentially
a deputy for a judge who makes a recommendation which the judge usually
follows. (If either my mother-in-law, a family court judge in NY, or my
sister-in-law, a magistrate in WI, caught the show I'll post their analysis.
Tentatively, it seems plausible to me that they'd give the biological mother
custody absent compelling evidence that she's unfit. Interesting that the
issue of Susan's work making it difficult for her to be a good mother never
came up -- I also think this is plausible especially since the judge herself
is a working woman...)

: Hicks also takes a minute to

: inform Carter about the hospital's new "pyramid system" for first-year
: residents: they get ranked, from top to bottom, and the lowest third of
: them get culled at the end of that first year.

I didn't catch this line exactly -- were they to be culled entirely or
were they to repeat the first year?

: That notwithstanding, I was still somewhat

: surprised to see Peter suddenly passionate about the Vucelich affair
: again, on which I thought he'd all but given up.

It seems clear he's reevaluated the situation given all the later events.
Peter tries really hard to appear not to care what anyone else thinks of
him, but I expect the putdowns from Greene and Hicks, and the fact that
for once he didn't get hurt by doing the right thing by confessing to Mr.
Mendoza (he even got some grudging approval from Jeannie) finally registered.

: I also noted the irony

: inherent in the fact that, after being snubbed by his fellow doctors for
: snitching on one of them, he's finally prepared to do the same thing yet
: again, this time in the cause of honor. The fact that Dr. Hicks played
: such a large role in this episode makes me hope that we see both her and
: Vucelich as May progresses, and that it'll be something a little more
: complicated than Peter and his new moral second wind suddenly snatching
: victory from defeat in the final hour.

Agreed entirely. Notice that Benton and Carter are rapidly each becoming the
only friend the other has left?

: [...] Shep's characterization, and his relationship with Carol, could take a

: sudden turn into the darkly complicated. He was no doubt traumatized by
: the death of his treasured partner in "The Healers", and we're hearing
: him constantly rail at the simpleness of his new rookie Reilly, but
: there seems to be something deeper picking at Shep's soul. Given the
: ease with which Shep seems to flare, it may be that his exterior fire is
: symptomatic of an inner battle he's waging with himself.

You have to think that the line about the matricidal kid being "damaged
goods forever" has some kind of autobiographical reference. This wasn't
a particularly subtle script, as you observe _in re_ Benton. (There's a
tradeoff between amount of exposition and depth of writing, and this episode
had to trend toward the former to set up the presumed sweeps-month events.

: [...]The

: conflict, then, turns its focus to how gracefully Susan will give up
: what she's fought to gain. I think an important element to note is that
: Chloe is still not getting custody of the baby -- what she's asking for,
: and seemingly is content with (for now) is mere visitation rights.

Though it's clear that if she stays clean she gets custody, assuming this
judge/lawyer has a good understanding of the law of our fictional Illinois.

I'm reminded of a few months ago when Mark was bitching to Susan about Jen,
and Susan said, a little archly, something like "I know the last thing you
want is for this conflict to hurt Rachel". Mark was seriously brought up
short by this and we may soon see a reversal of the roles in this scene...

: Carter strives to such lengths for such an empty goal; he was the

: one taking Harper on a moonlight cruise, for pete's sake, so Dale was
: less than a non-threat. It looks as if the vow of changing his ways in
: "The Match Game" really didn't take, or if it did, it's a delayed effect
: of Dopplerian scale.

It seems that globally Carter is sort of on hold for this season, after
being the center of the first season. He's essentially been comedy relief
as others have been the prime focus. We can hope that next season he'll
again have to deal with the conflict between the Vucelich and Greene models
of medicine...

: -Dr. Hicks' ominous pronouncements concerning the "pyramid

: system" of weeding out interns struck me as primarily the tension device
: that Carter will have to overcome to stay on the show come this time
: next season. How's that for foreshadowing?

Clearly this is more or less right. Carter thought that once he was matched
he could stop having to prove himself all the time, but in the power-surgery
world it _never_ stops...

: -She didn't figure very highly into the episode, but Kerry

: Weaver's time on-camera was quintessential Kerryesque. The idea of
: videotaping the trauma procedures could have only come from her, and her
: quirky sense of humor exhibited when she took pleasure from playing and
: replaying Carter's unhygienic misstep.

Not to mention the Perot-style charts with Mrs. Garvey and the Madden-style
telestrator work. Kerry manages to be hilarious, aggravating, and oddly
lovable at the same time -- I hope we see more of her.

Dave MB

[Raymond Skarratt u]

Great review Scott as usual.

A couple of nitpicks here, please anyone correct me if I'm wrong.

First: Jeremy didn't (I don't think) just happen upon "a bleeding patient"
if I'm not mistaken that was his mother he was staring at in the hall.

Second: Susan and Chloe were meeting with a judge, not a lawyer and the
judge (I believe the only entity of the court that would have the power to
do so) ordered the visitation rights of Chloe to "three overnight visits a
week". The judge then had the conversation with Susan and basically told
her to give it up, she will lose the custody battle.

Once again an excellent review with some interesting comments and insights.

Keep it up Scott,
Ray
skar...@mach1.wlu.ca

[Matthew Allan Chaput]

In article <nancy-dooley....@uiowa.edu>,
nancy-...@uiowa.edu (Nancy Dooley) wrote:
>In article <4lpqvd$g...@tribune.concentric.net> Sco...@cris.com (Scott
Hollifield) writes:
>>From: Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield)
>>Subject: ER: "Fire in the Belly" Summary/Review
>>Date: 26 Apr 1996 06:37:33 GMT
>
>Good summary, Scott, but: (there's always one, isn't there? ;-)
>

Seconded. The paragraph on Shep was especially literary :-)

>> Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the
>>effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep
>>revealing himself as an abusive type. At the time, I didn't believe it,
>

>(Good analysis, below, snipped)
>
>It looks like Shep's type is more "violent" than abusive, if there is a
>distinction to be made here (abusive, to me, means partner-specific) ... the
>pressure of the job is getting to him. Even though he had to stop himself
>from aiming his punches at Carol, I don't see that as Carol-specific; he
would
>have had the same trouble stopping himself no matter who was interfering. He
>just went berserk; I can see him burning out...as many EMT's do.
>

I think you're exactly right here, especially on the distinction between
"violent" and "abusive". At least I hope you are; I like Shep. As someone else
already mentioned, Shep's comments about the kid being "damaged goods" for the
rest of his life seemed clearly autobiographical. Shep may have grown up in an
abusive household. Anyway, he's a very angry man inside.

>I like Shep and think he's popular with some of us because he's such a human
>character, although a little misguided sometimes and clumsy.
>
>

Exactly why I like him. The doctors provide the drama, but in real life
nobody's a ladykiller like Doug Ross or an avenging angel of healing like
Benton or a saint like Mark or a rich-kid proving himself like Carter or a
superhuman well of goodness like Susan. I love the characters, and I identify
with many of their single trials and characteristics, but as wholes, their
unrealistic.

Shep is the one that has an everyday job, doesn't have a post-graduate
education, loves a good woman (ugh! that line sounds like an old Western
movie), etc.

He also has emotional problems. I *hope* the writers don't decide to make him
a closet wife-beater or psychotic, because first I think he's good grounding
for the show, and second we haven't seen it on the screen... it would just be
a cop-out to get rid of him. From what I've seen, Shep doesn't have anything
wrong with him that councilling (sp?) wouldn't help immensely. I hope *that's*
where the drama comes from, instead of "Carol flees an abusive relationship."

One more thing: Carol's "OK" in response to Shep's comments about not raising
kids in the city was really hard to read. The first time I watched it, I
thought she was about to say "Kids!?" but then realized "yes, this is the man
I want to have kids with" and said "ok" as a kind of acceptance of their
relationship. After watching the entire episode, I watched the scene again and
it could have been that Carol was placating him, but was actually kind of
scared that he was making these plans in his head without talking to her.

Please, please, ER writers, let it be the former! :-\

>Nancy Dooley
>
>
>"Celebrate our State." IOWA'S Sesquicentennial year, 1846-1996.

mach...@artsu1.uwaterloo.ca

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Allan Chaput

[-montalvo m.a.]

In article <nancy-dooley....@uiowa.edu>,
Nancy Dooley <nancy-...@uiowa.edu> wrote:
>
>I certainly prefer Chloe's singing voice to Susan's ;-)

Kathleen Wilhoite has an excellent singing voice. She was a regular
on Cop Rock (as a drug addict who sold her baby), and got to sing some
great emotional songs.

Maria

[Liz]

at one point, Jeremy escapes the staffs'
> supervision and is found standing idly down the hall, staring at a
> bloodied patient in another room.

I was under the impression that it was his mother's body he was staring at

[Jill Kaszynski]

In article <4lpqvd$g...@tribune.concentric.net>, Sco...@cris.com (Scott
Hollifield) wrote:

> I found fairly
> significant Jeanie's side of the argument she had with Peter: she
> attributes his standoffishness to him not being over their breakup.
> Peter looks at her and says, "I am past it -- way past it" -- and you
> know, I think that he means it, or at least he thinks he means it.

I interpreted Peter's statement as an attempt to hurt Jeannie and an
attempt to save face.

[Netnom]

From: Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield)
\
> I found fairlysignificant Jeanie's side of the argument she had with

>Peter: she attributes his standoffishness to him not being over their
>breakup. Peter looks at her and says, "I am past it -- way past it" --
>and you know, I think that he means it, or at least he thinks he means
it.

Oh, he *thinks* he means it! I thought it was obvious from the writing
AND the actor's delivery of this line that it's far from true!

> If my theory is correct, it connects to an incident early this season
>where Jeanie misattributed a conflict she had with Peter to their
>relationship, when it was, in the end, really just Peter being Peter. I
>have a small hunch that Jeanie is suffering from the same mild delusion
>here, and if so, it's an interesting character aspect that raises some
>puzzling implications (does Jeanie's Peter-myopia mean that she
>subconsciously wants to get back together with him? - to name one). Of
>course, I could well be dead wrong, and Peter still does harbor feelings
>for her. Time will tell.

maybe it's the gender difference here (you're a man, i'm a woman) but i
think it's clear that just the opposite is true....that peter is *not*
over Jeanie and *is* taking his unresolved feelings out on her (yes, the
fact that Peter is always brusque etc. makes it less obvious, but to me
it's still obvious.) Remember that she was the one who ended the affair
and she was the married, unattainable one etc. so it's logical that he
would be the more wounded one. the fact that you are giving her the
unconscious motivations here alternately cracks me up and offends me.
"Offends" becuz it reminds me of those comments Anita Hill got about
*her* being the one who secretly longed to sleep with Clarence Thomas.
That may sound extreme, but the reason for my irritation is that it's not
uncommon for men to attribute women's anger to some kind of 'woman
scorned/unrequited love feeling' rather than dealing with it for what it
really is. i think Jeanie's pissed that peter treats heer so badly on
a professional level and she rightly suspects that personal feeling is
involved. i think the writers and actors have subtly but clearly
indicated that Peter's the one with the 'unresolved' bug up his ass. i
think to instead go searching for some mysterious unconscious motivation
of Jeanie's to get back together is off-base and rather sexist.

just one woman's opinion!

[Daniel Wolfe]

Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote another stellar summary, in which
he said:
: PLOT TWO: LET'S GET PHYSICAL
: While getting patched up, Shep bemoans

: the chaotic state of urban society, and pointedly tells Carol: "We're
: not raising our kids here." (Her response, after reflection, is a
: pensive "Okay.")

Was she agreeing? After he says the bit about "our kids", she is silent
until she finishes working on him. To me, it sounded like an "okay,
I'm finished bandaging you" instead of an "okay, we'll move to some
remote desert island with no crime that needs a paramedic and a nurse."

: At the end of the day, Carol is accompanying Shep in

: the ambulance when they run into some sort of disturbance on the street.

: Without warning, a man tosses a brick at the ambulance's windshield...

Not exactly without warning -- Shep was calling in the disturbance and
didn't see the guy crossing the street and nearly hit him. Shep started
yelling at the pedestrian (how dare you get hit by my ambulance just
because I'm not paying attention while I drive), the ped yells at Shep,
then throws the brick, or rock, or whatever.

: PLOT FOUR: THE APPENDIX THAT WASN'T
: Carter lures

: Dale and Harper to lunch in the cafeteria, and posits himself to run the
: trauma instead. Dale and Harper arrive just in time to see Carter
: accompanying the patient up to surgery, but not before Harper aims a
: vicious glare at him.

You neglect to mention that Carter did an excellent job running the
trauma, receiving praise from both Dr. Hicks and Doug Ross.

: PLOT FIVE: THE CAMERA NEVER LIES
: Mark and Iris still go out, and even

: make it into bed, an experience which apparently succeeds despite Mark's
: worries. "I feel like I just plucked the virtue of a virgin," sighs
: Iris contentedly.

Better was her line, "We can review the tape and critique your
performance," which refers to:

: -------------------------------------------------------------------------
: -She didn't figure very highly into the episode, but Kerry

: Weaver's time on-camera was quintessential Kerryesque. The idea of
: videotaping the trauma procedures could have only come from her, and her
: quirky sense of humor exhibited when she took pleasure from playing and
: replaying Carter's unhygienic misstep.

You seem amused by her antics, but I thought it was unprofessional of her
first to ridicule Carter like that ("back and to the left, back and to
the left" -- whoops, wrong videotape) and it was totally improper of her
to let Mark and Doug's conversation run. After two words, she should
have know it was private and hit stop, pause, rewind, fast forward, mute,
or any of a half-dozen other buttons on your standard remote control, but
she let the conversation run all the way. Also, I didn't think much of her
condescending lecturing towards Susan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Wolfe Voted "Most Likely to Form A Cult"
dsw...@ucdavis.edu by his peers at the UC Davis School of Law

"Kool-Aid, anyone?"

[John R Ogawa]

As usual, masterful summary Scott. My continued thanks for all you efforts.

Since others have already pointed out the minor errors about Jeremy and
Susan in other articles ...

>PLOT TWO: LET'S GET PHYSICAL
>Shep's early-morning bid to Carol for them to both play hooky for a day
>gets plea-bargained down to an hour of tardiness

See my post about Iowa ... :-)

>Peter is in the
>process of reaching a new plateau, emotionally; in his own way, he still
>has as many personal obstacles to overcome as Carter, and the road to
>becoming a more mature physician is by taking responsibility such as we
>saw him do this week.

I agree with you, 100%. Since I really like Peter, I'd have been happier
(in some way) if he'd been a hero this week, instead of waiting so long
(and having to be shamed by Hicks) before admitting his mistake, but this
show demonstrated further growth in his character. He wasn't going to do
the right thing, but he finally did - and doing so gave him the courage
to stand up to Vuselich.

>... really just Peter being Peter.

My girlfriend thought so as well. Peter is brusque with everyone, and
Jeanie has become one of "everyone" for him. *I* on the other hand
think that he still holds a little torch for her somewhere in his well-
defended soul :-).

Thanks again Scott.

John
--

============================================================================
| John Ogawa | INTERNET: |
| Senior Statistician | jog...@maroon.tc.umn.edu |
| Minnesota Mother-Child Project |--------------------------------------|
| Institute of Child Development | "Oh boy ..." |
| University of Minnesota | -Dr Sam Beckett, "Quantum Leap" |
============================================================================

[Mary Emily Cummins]

Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote:

: For weeks, Henry Lewis has been siding with Susan's case, but has now

: changed his tune, and tells Susan that he believes Chloe has truly
: changed. He also shares the revelation that Chloe's new beau Joe is a

This well showed the instability of Susan's family (which makes me
respect Susan's success even more - though of course she's not perfect).
Her mother left (who was that friend she went to visit?) and Mr. Lewis
changed his tune in a cowardly manner! He just can't stand up to his
family.

: also bluntly told (when Chloe is out of the room) that if she insists in

: pursuing the case against giving Chloe visitation rights, she will lose.

Other people have mentioned this, but I thought that the judge was even
stating that Chloe as mother would win total rights (keep the child
permanently).

: sister's new lifestyle. Joe is a nine-year recovering alcoholic as

: well as a cop, and seems to be a strong pillar of support. Despite all,

Ha! I hated Joe. Not just that he's a recovering alcoholic, but he
himself mentioned that in AA the people with more experienced aren't
supposed to get involved with the newbies. Plus, they "fell in love" and
"got engaged" so quickly - but won't get married "for a long time" Chloe
said (Joe corroborates). I personally think Chloe is a hopeless loser!
Sorry.

As for the "Blackbird" singing you mentioned later, how about if we
consider the words in light of Susan's (and my!) reluctance to exchange
hatred of Chloe for trust: "Take these broken wings and learn to fly;
all my life, you were only waiting for this moment to arrive. Blackbird,
fly..." Maybe Chloe is "the blackbird" finally trying to fly (be
successful and mature). Am I crazy here?

: revelation that she slept with Dale ("just once") sends Carter running

: off to find an appendix that needs removing. Dr. Hicks lets him do one,
: but again, Carter gets a bum deal; the patient's appendix is healthy and
: all that needed removing was a toothpick. Hicks also takes a minute to

But that still seems great, since that toothpick (sticking *out* of his
system) would not have been excreted, it would have caused infection.

: Despite being gravely humiliated, Mark and Iris still go out, and even

: make it into bed, an experience which apparently succeeds despite Mark's

It would have been more realistic if Mark has postponed the date due to
his embarrassment. Then again, I don't know how young divorces think.

: an angry boyfriend (see PLOT TWO), is questioned at one point by a

: detective. Doug sharply reproaches the detective for questioning the
: traumatized boy; "you could have set him back weeks," he says. Later,

Someone pointed out that the dead body Jeremy saw was his mother's.
Remember how Mark had yelled, "Somebody get that D.B. out of here!" and
so it just got moved temporarily to a place too near where the boy was
being kept.

: notes), but he receives twenty-five thousand dollars in cash from

: another source: his father. At first, he loudly declaims that he's

Wasn't it $5,000?

: because I simply didn't see it up there on the screen; Shep is a bounder

: and a lug, but he's no monster. The harrowing final scene that Carol
: and Shep shared this week, however, provided a possible stepping stone
: to making that rumor a reality, and true to the promise of this show,

I have actually come to LIKE Shep. I think that all of us recognize the
bitterness that comes from dealing with a brutal job like the ER doctors
and related personnel do every day. Can we blame Shep for having low
times, especially when his partner has recently been killed, AND he
feels like he's just helping people who don't help others and whose lives
are devoted to hurting others (like gangbangers)?

: characters, Shep is one of the most obviously flawed, and one of his

: chief problems is that he's overprotective -- not just in a mother hen
: sense, but aggressively so. This week, we catch a glimpse of one of
: that seed's awful side effects, as Shep's righteous, out-of-control rage

His righteous anger, yes, does need to be tempered, but I don't think
that his feelings are unjustified. Others might drink a lot or sleep
around to deal with the problems from their job (such as other
characters we know!) but Shep tries to deal with it through Carol.
Also, he is more physically expressive (like Doug, when Doug punched out
that child-abusing father).

: getaway. The fact that Carter's foibles finally drove even Harper away

: should not escape the attention of those who've said that it's Carter
: who's too good for Harper. Meanwhile, all I've got to say is that while
: his pathetic stunt of oneupmanship is pretty typical of the Carter we've
: seen lately, the new stripe of jealousy wears even less attractively on
: him. Carter strives to such lengths for such an empty goal; he was the
: one taking Harper on a moonlight cruise, for pete's sake, so Dale was
: less than a non-threat. It looks as if the vow of changing his ways in

Considering Harper's wishy-washiness, the sudden entrance of Dale, and
Dale's relative superiority to Carter in some ways, Dale was NOT a
non-threat!!

: -I didn't mention it in the main summary, but I found fairly

: significant Jeanie's side of the argument she had with Peter: she
: attributes his standoffishness to him not being over their breakup.
: Peter looks at her and says, "I am past it -- way past it" -- and you
: know, I think that he means it, or at least he thinks he means it. If

Yes, Jeanie is totally self-centered and to quote Carol, "not a team
player." Why does everything have to revolve around Jeanie in Jeanie's
world?

Emily

--

M. Emily Cummins, delegate to the D.C. Miscing Convention

George Washington University | BA '95, Wake Forest University
Political Science Department | "Dear Old Wake Forest,
email: cum...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu | Thine is a Noble Name!"

WAKE FOREST DEMON DEACONS, ACC CHAMPS 1995 and 1996!!!

[Nancy Dooley]

In article <4lpqvd$g...@tribune.concentric.net> Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:
>From: Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield)
>Subject: ER: "Fire in the Belly" Summary/Review
>Date: 26 Apr 1996 06:37:33 GMT

Good summary, Scott, but: (there's always one, isn't there? ;-)

>gunshot murder point-blank, and at one point, Jeremy escapes the staffs'

>supervision and is found standing idly down the hall, staring at a
>bloodied patient in another room.

That's his mom he's staring at; the morgue didn't have room for her body, so
the staff put her in that examining room (why didn't they cover her up???)

>For weeks, Henry Lewis has been siding with Susan's case, but has now
>changed his tune, and tells Susan that he believes Chloe has truly
>changed. He also shares the revelation that Chloe's new beau Joe is a

Mr. Lewis says he's not going to side with one daughter against the other...he
doesn't want to be in the middle. This is also one of his reasons along with
the fact he thinks Chloe is changed.

>thing she wants most in the world is to be a good mother to baby Susie.
>After both woman lavish good-night kisses onto the baby, Susan watches
>somberly as Chloe takes the baby up to bed.

I certainly prefer Chloe's singing voice to Susan's ;-)

> Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the

>effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep
>revealing himself as an abusive type. At the time, I didn't believe it,

(Good analysis, below, snipped)

It looks like Shep's type is more "violent" than abusive, if there is a
distinction to be made here (abusive, to me, means partner-specific) ... the
pressure of the job is getting to him. Even though he had to stop himself
from aiming his punches at Carol, I don't see that as Carol-specific; he would
have had the same trouble stopping himself no matter who was interfering. He
just went berserk; I can see him burning out...as many EMT's do.

I like Shep and think he's popular with some of us because he's such a human

character, although a little misguided sometimes and clumsy.

[Iluminadia]

in article <nancy-dooley....@uiowa.edu>,

Nancy Dooley <nancy-...@uiowa.edu> wrote:
>
>I certainly prefer Chloe's singing voice to Susan's ;-)

::Kathleen Wilhoite has an excellent singing voice. She was a regular

on Cop Rock (as a drug addict who sold her baby), and got to sing some
great emotional songs.

Maria::

I find her singing voice *much* more pleasant to listen to than her
speaking voice! I was surprised that she sings so well....her voice
usually really works my nerves.

Tracy
ilumi...@aol.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ask a toad what is beauty?.....A female with two great round eyes coming
out of her little head, a large flat mouth, a yellow belly and a brown
back.-----Voltaire
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Gary Huckabay]

In article <4lqu3r$7ps...@watstar.uwaterloo.ca>,

Matthew Allan Chaput <MACH...@ARTSU1.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

>>I like Shep and think he's popular with some of us because he's such a human
>>character, although a little misguided sometimes and clumsy.
>

>Exactly why I like him. The doctors provide the drama, but in real life
>nobody's a ladykiller like Doug Ross or an avenging angel of healing like
>Benton or a saint like Mark or a rich-kid proving himself like Carter or a
>superhuman well of goodness like Susan.

Actually, I disagree. Most people are pretty extraordinary in at least
one way, and if you were to look at their lives for the most interesting
10-15 minutes of their week, I don't think there'd be a significant
difference.

>I love the characters, and I identify
>with many of their single trials and characteristics, but as wholes, their
>unrealistic.

I dunno. I think a lot of times, when people criticize characters
as being flat or one-dimensional, they overestimate how faceted people
in real life are. Great fiction of any sort does a lot with texture,
context, and inexplicit material.

>One more thing: Carol's "OK" in response to Shep's comments about not raising
>kids in the city was really hard to read. The first time I watched it, I
>thought she was about to say "Kids!?" but then realized "yes, this is the man
>I want to have kids with" and said "ok" as a kind of acceptance of their
>relationship.

See? There you go...

Of course, the really sad part is that some of the best developed
characters on television are animated, and some of the most one-dimensional
are doing local TV news.

"Excellent." -- Monty Burns.

--
* Gary Huckabay * "You're the only person I know who actually *
* "Noted for Bob * genuflects towards the homes of W. Edwards *
* Gajarsky-like * Deming and Doug Pinnick each morning." *
* Sophistication." * "At least I get the directions right." *

[Scott Hollifield]

A couple of corrections on my summary...

First of all, I said that Jeremy, the boy in shock, was looking at the
body of a patient when it was in fact the body of his mther. I discarded
that possibility when interpreting that scene because I didn't think
they'd just leave a dead body lying around, but I had forgotten about
Kerry telling Jerry to leave the body in an exam room because the morgue
couldn't take it at the moment.

Also, I misidentified the woman who spoke to Chloe and Susan as a lawyer;
she was, in fact, a judge.

Thanks for those who sent me e-mail pointing out the corrections.

As always, if you missed the summayr/review, you can get it from my Web
page, listed below.

[Callen Hall]

Great review, Scott.

Here's my .02:

Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) wrote:

> Carol tries to cope with a
>young boy named Jeremy who's in shock from having witnessed his mother's
>gunshot murder point-blank, and at one point, Jeremy escapes the staffs'
>supervision and is found standing idly down the hall, staring at a
>bloodied patient in another room.

>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Even worse, it's his dead mother who's been moved into an empty room to
make way for the video cameras in the trauma room.

>PLOT THREE: AND MOMMY MAKES TWO

>display. Later, Susan happens by to see Kerry Weaver very patiently
>explaining the procedure to Ethel with an elaborate chart on an easel.
>Afterward, Kerry offers some friendly advice meant to apply to Susan's
>"inflexibility" with patients: "If you feel yourself getting dug in,
>call me."

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm actually starting to like Kerry
Weaver. The actress who plays her even managed to pull off the "advice"
without sounding condescending, IMO.

>Judging from a significant piece of that last scene in the kitchen, I'd
>certainly be willing to label this a happy ending of a kind: not one but
>two loving mother-figures with a willing abundance of love to give to
>this baby, while a potentially supportive father-figure awaits in the
>next room. The sad, yearning look that Susan evokes at the close of the
>episode (as Chloe lullabys baby Susie with "Blackbird" -- nice touch,
>that) is a signal that Susan still wants to be a mother for the child,
>perhaps THE mother. If there's still going to be tension there, then
>the writers will have to milk it for these last few weeks of the season,
>or come up with something out of left field.

I don't know. I felt that the emphasis Chloe placed on the fact that
Susie was lucky to have an AUNT who would always be there for her leads
me to think that Chloe has something else entirely in mind. And the bit
about singing "Blackbird" - I don't know, that really gave me the creeps.

> -Speaking of Marg Helgenberger, she is a welcome sight on this
>show. Her slyly seductive performance, even in those few minutes of
>screen time, comes across effortlessly, and I happen to think she fits
>this show like a glove.

Yes, even though this is a disturbing little storyline it's very
compelling, and Marg Helgenberger is absolutely tops. That look on her
face at the end of the scene with Ross spoke volumes. I think Doug's in
big trouble.

And, that scene between Carol & Shep - horrifying! I never liked Shep,
but I don't want to see it go this way. Very good performances by both
actors there.

C.

[Ceon Ramon]

In article <4lqu3r$7ps...@watstar.uwaterloo.ca>,
Matthew Allan Chaput <MACH...@ARTSU1.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:

[Scott]

>>> Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the
>>>effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep
>>>revealing himself as an abusive type. At the time, I didn't believe it,

And my reaction was that I could in fact find it credible that he would at
some future time lash out at her, perhaps out of frustration and without
intending to hurt her.

[Nancy]

>>It looks like Shep's type is more "violent" than abusive, if there is a
>>distinction to be made here (abusive, to me, means partner-specific) ... the
>>pressure of the job is getting to him. Even though he had to stop himself
>>from aiming his punches at Carol, I don't see that as Carol-specific; he
>would
>>have had the same trouble stopping himself no matter who was interfering.
>>He just went berserk; I can see him burning out...as many EMT's do.

Yes, and that's what has always made me uncomfortable about Shep -- I've
always seen in him a potential for going berserk and doing something he
would deeply regret.

>One more thing: Carol's "OK" in response to Shep's comments about not raising
>kids in the city was really hard to read. The first time I watched it, I
>thought she was about to say "Kids!?" but then realized "yes, this is the man
>I want to have kids with" and said "ok" as a kind of acceptance of their

>relationship. After watching the entire episode, I watched the scene again and
>it could have been that Carol was placating him, but was actually kind of
>scared that he was making these plans in his head without talking to her.

Well, of course I can't say for sure, but I can tell you this: if I had
the expression Carol was wearing at that moment it would mean I was
thinking, "You are seriously deranged."

But, as I've observed before, I find Carol curiously passive sometimes.
She responded the same way when Shep proposed to her at the party -- not
saying "no," but giving a lot of evidence in the way of body language of
not particularly welcoming what he was saying.

--Barbara

[Ceon Ramon]

In article <4lr9eq$a...@mark.ucdavis.edu>,

Daniel Wolfe <ez05...@boris.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote another stellar summary, in which
>he said:
>

>: PLOT FIVE: THE CAMERA NEVER LIES
[...]
>: -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>: -She didn't figure very highly into the episode, but Kerry

>: Weaver's time on-camera was quintessential Kerryesque. The idea of
>: videotaping the trauma procedures could have only come from her, and her
>: quirky sense of humor exhibited when she took pleasure from playing and
>: replaying Carter's unhygienic misstep.
>

>You seem amused by her antics, but I thought [...]

it was totally improper of her
>to let Mark and Doug's conversation run. After two words, she should
>have know it was private and hit stop, pause, rewind, fast forward, mute,
>or any of a half-dozen other buttons on your standard remote control,

I didn't like her for that, either. But in my experience medical people
have a rather brutal sense of humor -- Doug seemed to think it was a
hoot, too. Mark, although he must have felt radioactive with humiliation,
handled it with aplomb. Me, I would have called for a rib-spreader and
cracked her head open with it.

>she let the conversation run all the way. Also, I didn't think much of her
>condescending lecturing towards Susan.

In fairness, I've always thought Kerry was trying to be genuinely helpful
to Susan. And in this incident it seemed to me she came across as
sounding _less_ condescending than usual.

--Barbara

[Scott Hollifield]

Nancy Dooley (nancy-...@uiowa.edu) wrote:
: Mr. Lewis says he's not going to side with one daughter against the other...he

: doesn't want to be in the middle. This is also one of his reasons along with
: the fact he thinks Chloe is changed.

True, although I thought it was significant that (according to Susan's
exposition) he had been steadfastly siding with Susan for weeks until this
day. I suppose he had mixed emotions all throughout, and who can blame
him?

: >thing she wants most in the world is to be a good mother to baby Susie.

: >After both woman lavish good-night kisses onto the baby, Susan watches
: >somberly as Chloe takes the baby up to bed.

: I certainly prefer Chloe's singing voice to Susan's ;-)

Same here; in fact I meant to mention that Kathleen Wilhoite's rendition
of "Blackbird" sounded a bit more soulful.

: It looks like Shep's type is more "violent" than abusive, if there is a

: distinction to be made here (abusive, to me, means partner-specific) ... the
: pressure of the job is getting to him. Even though he had to stop himself
: from aiming his punches at Carol, I don't see that as Carol-specific; he would
: have had the same trouble stopping himself no matter who was interfering. He
: just went berserk; I can see him burning out...as many EMT's do.

Oh, I agree. The last thing Shep would want to do is direct abuse at
Carol, as I think even most Shep-bashers would agree with. Shep's
particular problem, as we saw, is that he's capable of being out of
control, and under such circumstances, it may well be that his aggression
could be directed indiscriminately.

[Scott Hollifield]

David Mix Barrington (bar...@fiji.cs.umass.edu) wrote:
: I didn't catch this line exactly -- were they to be culled entirely or

: were they to repeat the first year?

My impression is that they're to be culled entirely -- although I presume
there's some contingency for landing at another hospital.

: It seems clear he's reevaluated the situation given all the later events.

: Peter tries really hard to appear not to care what anyone else thinks of
: him, but I expect the putdowns from Greene and Hicks, and the fact that
: for once he didn't get hurt by doing the right thing by confessing to Mr.

: Mendoza (he even got some grudging approval from Jeannie).

In one sense, the show played it easy by not showing any reprisals from
the Mendozas. What would Peter have done if Mr. Mendoza threatened a
lawsuit?

: Agreed entirely. Notice that Benton and Carter are rapidly each becoming the

: only friend the other has left?

They have some kind of bond, although I'm not sure I'm ready to label it
"friendship" just yet. They're each rapidly isolating those around them,
though, so perhaps their bergs will meet in a future episode.

: You have to think that the line about the matricidal kid being "damaged

: goods forever" has some kind of autobiographical reference.

One thing I have noticed about Shep is that he's very confident of his own
opinion concerning society's ills, even when other factors call him into
question (his perceived "racist" comment, his generalization about
suicide). Here, just before the climactic brick-throwing, we hear Shep
proselytizing about the doomed fate of traumatized kids. You may turn out
to be right, if you're implying there's something in Shep's past causing
him to act the way he is.

: Clearly this is more or less right. Carter thought that once he was matched

: he could stop having to prove himself all the time, but in the power-surgery
: world it _never_ stops...

Yet another Benton parallel. The question is, where does Carter's
evolution from necessary ass-kissing to responsible surgeon transform
again into Benton's evolution from responsible surgeon to necessary
ass-kissing?

: Not to mention the Perot-style charts with Mrs. Garvey and the Madden-style

: telestrator work. Kerry manages to be hilarious, aggravating, and oddly
: lovable at the same time -- I hope we see more of her.

I couldn't have put it better. Not only do I hope we see more of her, I
hope we see *more* of her -- that is, let's see some more layers peeled
away. In fact, I wish they'd write her as a regular character like Gloria
Reuben (who's somewhat less deserving of that status, I feel).

[Jennifer Kangas]

Could Scott please repost his summary and/or email it to me.
For some reason my server says it has expired!!

[BamBam]

On Fri, 26 Apr 1996, Nancy Dooley wrote:

> It looks like Shep's type is more "violent" than abusive, if there is a
> distinction to be made here (abusive, to me, means partner-specific) ... the
> pressure of the job is getting to him. Even though he had to stop himself
> from aiming his punches at Carol, I don't see that as Carol-specific; he
> would have had the same trouble stopping himself no matter who was
> interfering. He just went berserk; I can see him burning out...as
> many EMT's do.

> I like Shep and think he's popular with some of us because he's such a human
> character, although a little misguided sometimes and clumsy.

Thank you for "going there", Nancy; unlike some who would damn Shep to
the realm of wife-beaters (though this may indeed happen), I see Shep as
being terribly stressed and burnt out, a situation which was exacerbated
by Raoul's tragic death. It will be very interesting to see which way
this goes.

"That which does not kill me only makes me stronger"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rose "BamBam" Cooper /~\
Sgt. At Arms/Web Moderator, /','\
Ebony Queens Motorcycle Club /','`'\
1980 GoldWing 1100/1982 Kawasaki Spectre 750 /',',','/`,
DoD #EQUEEN email: COO...@CSTORE.MSU.EDU `~-._'c /
http://cstore-zserver.cl.msu.edu/eqmc/eqmc.htm `\ ( dski
http://cstore-zserver.cl.msu.edu/rose/cooper.htm /====\
http://cstore-zserver.cl.msu.edu/rose/rott.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Ceon Ramon]

In article <4lr9vd$j...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>,
Mary Emily Cummins <cum...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>
>Ha! I hated Joe.

Oh, goodie. A new character to hate. :-)

Not just that he's a recovering alcoholic, but he
>himself mentioned that in AA the people with more experienced aren't
>supposed to get involved with the newbies. Plus, they "fell in love" and
>"got engaged" so quickly - but won't get married "for a long time" Chloe
>said (Joe corroborates).

Joe referred to waiting for Chloe's one-year anniversary of sobriety, but
at this remove I can't remember if that was directed at the issue of their
marriage.

>I personally think Chloe is a hopeless loser!

She seems to be looking less and less like a loser, and good for her. I'm
plugging for her (although I must admit she was more fun as a Bad Girl
-- there was something deliciously horrifying in those out-of-control
tantrums she'd throw).

>As for the "Blackbird" singing you mentioned later, how about if we
>consider the words in light of Susan's (and my!) reluctance to exchange
>hatred of Chloe for trust: "Take these broken wings and learn to fly;
>all my life, you were only waiting for this moment to arrive. Blackbird,
>fly..." Maybe Chloe is "the blackbird" finally trying to fly (be
>successful and mature). Am I crazy here?

Not at all; in fact I think that's the reason Chloe has always loved the
song. It promises second chances.

And I don't believe that Susan "hates" Chloe. I think she's seriously
angry with her and distrustful of this new improved sister act, but she's
loves her.

Scott:

>: because I simply didn't see it up there on the screen; Shep is a bounder

Shep is a *bounder*? I can see Doug being described as a bit of a
bounder, but not Shep.

Scott:

>: -I didn't mention it in the main summary, but I found fairly
>: significant Jeanie's side of the argument she had with Peter: she
>: attributes his standoffishness to him not being over their breakup.
>: Peter looks at her and says, "I am past it -- way past it" -- and you
>: know, I think that he means it, or at least he thinks he means it. If
>
>Yes, Jeanie is totally self-centered and to quote Carol, "not a team
>player." Why does everything have to revolve around Jeanie in Jeanie's
>world?

I don't find Jeanie any more self-centered than anyone else, and certainly
not more than Benton himself. I have more of a sense that Jeanie is
_confused_ as there really didn't seem to be any closure to their
relationship. It was after all one of some intensity, not just because
they were physically intimate but because Jeanie was so closely involved
with Peter's mother, and she was apparently the one person he trusted to
share his shattering grief when she died. I suspect Peter didn't feel so
much dumped as betrayed by her when she broke off their affair.

They really need to have a long honest talk together about what went on
and how they can relate to one another as fellow professionals now. Peter
acts sullen when he's around her (although it's hard to distinguish this
from his general surliness), and I can understand Jeanie's uncertainty
about what it means.

--Barbara

[Scott Hollifield]

Daniel Wolfe (ez05...@boris.ucdavis.edu) wrote:
: Was she agreeing? After he says the bit about "our kids", she is silent

: until she finishes working on him. To me, it sounded like an "okay,
: I'm finished bandaging you" instead of an "okay, we'll move to some
: remote desert island with no crime that needs a paramedic and a nurse."

I think she was agreeing, or at least seeming to agree, regardless of
whether or not she meant it.

: You neglect to mention that Carter did an excellent job running the

: trauma, receiving praise from both Dr. Hicks and Doug Ross.

You're right. It still doesn't excuse his trickery. :)

: : Mark and Iris still go out, and even

: : make it into bed, an experience which apparently succeeds despite Mark's
: : worries. "I feel like I just plucked the virtue of a virgin," sighs
: : Iris contentedly.

: You seem amused by her antics, but I thought it was unprofessional of her

: first to ridicule Carter like that ("back and to the left, back and to

: the left" -- whoops, wrong videotape) and it was totally improper of her

: to let Mark and Doug's conversation run.

Agreed on the latter, not on the former. All it was was Carter wiping his
nose; if his self-esteem is in danger from something like that, he needs
to grow some thicker skin.

: she let the conversation run all the way. Also, I didn't think much of her
: condescending lecturing towards Susan.

Kerry wouldn't be Kerry without that club in her bag. Besides, as others
have pointed out, Kerry's caution about inflexibility was spot on and
timely, for more reasons than Kerry could know.

[Scott Hollifield]

Mary Emily Cummins (cum...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu) wrote:
: This well showed the instability of Susan's family (which makes me

: respect Susan's success even more - though of course she's not perfect).
: Her mother left (who was that friend she went to visit?) and Mr. Lewis
: changed his tune in a cowardly manner! He just can't stand up to his
: family.

It could also be that Mr. Lewis came around to what he believed was the
best course of action.

: Ha! I hated Joe. Not just that he's a recovering alcoholic...

Well -- I would HOPE that wouldn't be total grounds to hate the man.. or
even partial.

: ...but he

: himself mentioned that in AA the people with more experienced aren't
: supposed to get involved with the newbies. Plus, they "fell in love" and
: "got engaged" so quickly - but won't get married "for a long time" Chloe
: said (Joe corroborates). I personally think Chloe is a hopeless loser!

Um... I don't get it. What's so horrible about these things?

: As for the "Blackbird" singing you mentioned later, how about if we

: consider the words in light of Susan's (and my!) reluctance to exchange
: hatred of Chloe for trust: "Take these broken wings and learn to fly;
: all my life, you were only waiting for this moment to arrive. Blackbird,
: fly..." Maybe Chloe is "the blackbird" finally trying to fly (be
: successful and mature). Am I crazy here?

That's one possible interpretation... Chloe's messy but improving life
could certainly qualify as "broken wings".

: But that still seems great, since that toothpick (sticking *out* of his

: system) would not have been excreted, it would have caused infection.

Apparently in prestige points, it's not worth as much as an appendix,
though.

: It would have been more realistic if Mark has postponed the date due to

: his embarrassment. Then again, I don't know how young divorces think.

I'm glad he didn't; I'm getting a little tired of Mark's wishy-washiness.
I was pleasantly surprised he went ahead with his plans despite the
embarrassment.

: I have actually come to LIKE Shep. I think that all of us recognize the

: bitterness that comes from dealing with a brutal job like the ER doctors
: and related personnel do every day. Can we blame Shep for having low
: times, especially when his partner has recently been killed, AND he
: feels like he's just helping people who don't help others and whose lives
: are devoted to hurting others (like gangbangers)?

I like Shep too, and he does seem to be turning into a more interesting
character.

: Considering Harper's wishy-washiness, the sudden entrance of Dale, and

: Dale's relative superiority to Carter in some ways, Dale was NOT a
: non-threat!!

I disagree. I can't think of a way in which Harper has been wishy-washy;
Dale's sudden entrance was obviously happenstance; and the only area in
which Dale seems superior to Carter is in medical experience, which, as we
saw in her outburst, is not necessarily what she looks for in a man. It
could be that the fact she only slept with Dale once (an implied
one-night-stand) is significant compared to what we can presume is a
fairly active sex life with Carter.

: Yes, Jeanie is totally self-centered and to quote Carol, "not a team

: player." Why does everything have to revolve around Jeanie in Jeanie's
: world?

Funny how you can replace the word "Jeanie" with "Peter" in those two
sentences and it still comes out right. :-)

[BamBam]

> : Hicks also takes a minute to
> : inform Carter about the hospital's new "pyramid system" for first-year
> : residents: they get ranked, from top to bottom, and the lowest third of
> : them get culled at the end of that first year.
>
> I didn't catch this line exactly -- were they to be culled entirely or
> were they to repeat the first year?

My recollection of things was that Hicks said "...they would not be asked
back" [after their first year].

[david joseph kathman]

In article <4lpqvd$g...@tribune.concentric.net>,
Scott Hollifield <Sco...@cris.com> wrote:

>vicious glare at him. After work, at the fairgrounds, a ticked-off
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Harper informs Carter that their date -- and their relationship -- is
>off. "You're a weasel!" she says, accusing him of being shamelessly
>singleminded in his pursuit of procedures. She angrily stalks off,
>leaving Carter with his only condolence being a balloon offered by a
>mime.

Sorry to be picky, but that was Navy Pier they were at; boats dock not
too far from where they were standing. I'm sure it was the Ferris Wheel
in the background that made you think of fairgrounds, but that Ferris
Wheel (the same one Carol and Shep rode in an episode last fall) is
a permanent fixture on the Pier, along with a merry-go-round, a concert
hall, a 3-D Imax theater, a small mall, and a bunch of other stuff. On the
local news here in Chicago after the episode, they had a story about
the filming of that scene on Navy Pier a few weeks ago.

Dave Kathman
dj...@midway.uchicago.edu

[pis...@onr.com]

Ceon Ramon wrote:
> Well, of course I can't say for sure, but I can tell you this: if I had
> the expression Carol was wearing at that moment it would mean I was
> thinking, "You are seriously deranged."
>
> But, as I've observed before, I find Carol curiously passive sometimes.
> She responded the same way when Shep proposed to her at the party -- not
> saying "no," but giving a lot of evidence in the way of body language of
> not particularly welcoming what he was saying.
>
> --Barbara

It's like the writers are saying that Carol is "going along" with the
relationship with Shep, and actually has feelings for him, but deep, very
deep inside, there are unresolved feelings for Doug. She's even more
passive now than with Tag. Tag came along while she was actively pursuing
a rebound from Doug. But now that time and an aborted wedding have passed,
she's being real loose. In Shep's mind, they are hurling forward towards
life as husband and wife, but for Carol, she's sort of "suspended" in a
relationship, waiting for the right man to send her over the edge - like
Doug once did.

Lynn

[Karen Cushing]

In article <4lr9vd$j...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu>, cum...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Mary Emily Cummins) writes:
> Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote:
>
> : For weeks, Henry Lewis has been siding with Susan's case, but has now
> : changed his tune, and tells Susan that he believes Chloe has truly
> : changed. He also shares the revelation that Chloe's new beau Joe is a
>
> This well showed the instability of Susan's family (which makes me
> respect Susan's success even more - though of course she's not perfect).
> Her mother left (who was that friend she went to visit?) and Mr. Lewis
> changed his tune in a cowardly manner! He just can't stand up to his
> family.

Cowardly manner!!! The only coward I see is Susan! After Chloe returned
it was Mr. Lewis who spent time with Chloe and her fiance. He realized
that maybe she has changed and maybe he should give her a CHANCE.

> : also bluntly told (when Chloe is out of the room) that if she insists in
> : pursuing the case against giving Chloe visitation rights, she will lose.
>
> Other people have mentioned this, but I thought that the judge was even
> stating that Chloe as mother would win total rights (keep the child
> permanently).

That is the way I saw it also!

> : sister's new lifestyle. Joe is a nine-year recovering alcoholic as
> : well as a cop, and seems to be a strong pillar of support. Despite all,
>
> Ha! I hated Joe. Not just that he's a recovering alcoholic, but he
> himself mentioned that in AA the people with more experienced aren't
> supposed to get involved with the newbies. Plus, they "fell in love" and
> "got engaged" so quickly - but won't get married "for a long time" Chloe
> said (Joe corroborates). I personally think Chloe is a hopeless loser!
> Sorry.

Why did you say sorry? That is your opinion! Personally I like Joe
and he seems to have a positive affect on Chloe.

> As for the "Blackbird" singing you mentioned later, how about if we
> consider the words in light of Susan's (and my!) reluctance to exchange
> hatred of Chloe for trust: "Take these broken wings and learn to fly;
> all my life, you were only waiting for this moment to arrive. Blackbird,
> fly..." Maybe Chloe is "the blackbird" finally trying to fly (be
> successful and mature). Am I crazy here?

No I just think your hatred of Chloe prevents you from making an
honest evaluation of the character. Everything you see Chloe do
or say you automatically think the worst.

> : notes), but he receives twenty-five thousand dollars in cash from
> : another source: his father. At first, he loudly declaims that he's
>
> Wasn't it $5,000?

It was $25,000

> : because I simply didn't see it up there on the screen; Shep is a bounder
> : and a lug, but he's no monster. The harrowing final scene that Carol
> : and Shep shared this week, however, provided a possible stepping stone
> : to making that rumor a reality, and true to the promise of this show,
>
> I have actually come to LIKE Shep. I think that all of us recognize the
> bitterness that comes from dealing with a brutal job like the ER doctors
> and related personnel do every day. Can we blame Shep for having low
> times, especially when his partner has recently been killed, AND he
> feels like he's just helping people who don't help others and whose lives
> are devoted to hurting others (like gangbangers)?

I like Shep! I just think the character is headed for major problems
and he should not rely on Carol to solve his problems. She should be
there for him but she is not the "cure" for his problems.

> : characters, Shep is one of the most obviously flawed, and one of his
> : chief problems is that he's overprotective -- not just in a mother hen
> : sense, but aggressively so. This week, we catch a glimpse of one of
> : that seed's awful side effects, as Shep's righteous, out-of-control rage
>
> His righteous anger, yes, does need to be tempered, but I don't think
> that his feelings are unjustified. Others might drink a lot or sleep
> around to deal with the problems from their job (such as other
> characters we know!) but Shep tries to deal with it through Carol.
> Also, he is more physically expressive (like Doug, when Doug punched out
> that child-abusing father).

So you say Shep tries to deal with his feeling through Carol? That is
a very dangerous statement. If he expresses his anger by physically
stirking someone then I pray to the writers don't let Carol upset him.

> : getaway. The fact that Carter's foibles finally drove even Harper away
> : should not escape the attention of those who've said that it's Carter
> : who's too good for Harper. Meanwhile, all I've got to say is that while
> : his pathetic stunt of oneupmanship is pretty typical of the Carter we've
> : seen lately, the new stripe of jealousy wears even less attractively on
> : him. Carter strives to such lengths for such an empty goal; he was the
> : one taking Harper on a moonlight cruise, for pete's sake, so Dale was
> : less than a non-threat. It looks as if the vow of changing his ways in
>
> Considering Harper's wishy-washiness, the sudden entrance of Dale, and
> Dale's relative superiority to Carter in some ways, Dale was NOT a
> non-threat!!

Dale was a non-threat! Carter really showed his true colors! Talk about
insecurity in your relationship!

[Scott Hollifield]

david joseph kathman (dj...@woodlawn.uchicago.edu) wrote:

: Scott Hollifield <Sco...@cris.com> wrote:
: >vicious glare at him. After work, at the fairgrounds, a ticked-off

: >Harper informs Carter that their date -- and their relationship -- is
: >off.

: Sorry to be picky, but that was Navy Pier they were at; boats dock not

: too far from where they were standing.

Congratulations, David, you've found the magic Third Mistake in this
week's summary. :) (At least you didn't correct me on Jeremy's dead
mother.)

You're right, of course, and I think I made the exact same error back in
"Summer Run" (when Carol and Shep rode the Ferris Wheel). I attribute my
ignorance to geography; where I come from, you just don't see Ferris
Wheels unless you're at the fairgrounds.

[Amanda King]

Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote:
: PLOT THREE: AND MOMMY MAKES TWO

: policeman. Inside the office, the news doesn't get any better; Susan is
: told by the attorney that Chloe will be given temporary visitation
: rights until the adoption situation is sorted. Furthermore, Susan is

: also bluntly told (when Chloe is out of the room) that if she insists in
: pursuing the case against giving Chloe visitation rights, she will lose.

: That evening at dinner, Susan has a chance to witness firsthand her

: sister's new lifestyle. Joe is a nine-year recovering alcoholic as
: well as a cop, and seems to be a strong pillar of support. Despite all,

: Susan still tells Chloe that she's skeptical, but Chloe insists that the

: thing she wants most in the world is to be a good mother to baby Susie.
: After both woman lavish good-night kisses onto the baby, Susan watches
: somberly as Chloe takes the baby up to bed.

: Likely, not many people were surprised at the turn of events in
: Susan's battle to keep baby Susie. For weeks now, the show has been
: signalling a new era of respectability for Chloe; this week, this
: plot finally lays its cards on the table, and it's just what we were
: expecting. Hopefully, the more concrete evidence in favor of Chloe's
: new leaf will help turn the minds of some net people who insist that
: Susan and only Susan should get to have custody of the baby. The
: conflict, then, turns its focus to how gracefully Susan will give up
: what she's fought to gain. I think an important element to note is that
: Chloe is still not getting custody of the baby -- what she's asking for,
: and seemingly is content with (for now) is mere visitation rights.
: Judging from a significant piece of that last scene in the kitchen, I'd

: certainly be willing to label this a happy ending of a kind: not one but
: two loving mother-figures with a willing abundance of love to give to
: this baby, while a potentially supportive father-figure awaits in the
: next room. The sad, yearning look that Susan evokes at the close of the
: episode (as Chloe lullabys baby Susie with "Blackbird" -- nice touch,
: that) is a signal that Susan still wants to be a mother for the child,
: perhaps THE mother. If there's still going to be tension there, then
: the writers will have to milk it for these last few weeks of the season,
: or come up with something out of left field.

Sorry to have left so much quoted stuff in, but I wasn't sure exactly
what part this related too. Did it bother anyone else when Chloe told
the judge that "the company I worked for is holding a job for me in
Phoenix."? I realize that that was just one sentence, but no one else
seems to have commented on it yet. It seems to me that it is one of the
infamous ER setup lines. I think that is going to be the biggest problem
to resolve in the Susan/Susie/Chloe drama for May sweeps.

Personally, my quote of the week was one of Scott H's too, although it
made me cringe for our educational system, when Reilly
said "All the way for LBJ, what's that about?" I would guess that I'm
about Reilly's age (early 20's?), but at least I've heard political
slogans for most of the presidents in this century.....

Amanda King
Wake Forest '97

[Scott Hollifield]

Barbara Hlavin (ce...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: [Scott]
: >>> Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the
: >>>effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep
: >>>revealing himself as an abusive type. At the time, I didn't believe it,

: And my reaction was that I could in fact find it credible that he would at
: some future time lash out at her, perhaps out of frustration and without
: intending to hurt her.

Well, at least you didn't say 'I told you so'. :)

[Scott Hollifield]

Amanda King (kin...@wfu.edu) wrote:
: Sorry to have left so much quoted stuff in, but I wasn't sure exactly

: what part this related too. Did it bother anyone else when Chloe told
: the judge that "the company I worked for is holding a job for me in
: Phoenix."? I realize that that was just one sentence, but no one else
: seems to have commented on it yet. It seems to me that it is one of the
: infamous ER setup lines. I think that is going to be the biggest problem
: to resolve in the Susan/Susie/Chloe drama for May sweeps.

I really don't think it's going to be a big deal. Chloe also mentioned
that she has a job in town, so if circumstances with Susie cause her to
need to stay in Chicago, I don't think she'd have a problem with that.
The fact that the Phoenix company is holding a job for her is, I think,
merely evidence that she's stable enough to be considered a valued
employee.

--

[Scott Hollifield]

pis...@onr.com wrote:
: It's like the writers are saying that Carol is "going along" with the

: relationship with Shep, and actually has feelings for him, but deep, very
: deep inside, there are unresolved feelings for Doug.

I don't feel they're saying that -- otherwise we'd be seeing some kind of
connection with Doug on the show, and it's just not there. I both hope
and believe that if Carol has problems that are causing her to be overly
passive, they're not related to Doug, whom she should well be over.

[John Novak]

In <4lpqvd$g...@tribune.concentric.net> Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:

> A very tightly packed episode, as May sweeps -- and the
>concluding arc of the show's second season -- rolls out of the station.

>I love this show, but one of its few, slight dramatic
>flaws is that sometimes the characters are given cut-and-dried scenarios
>from which to clear the slate of their troubled souls.

I usually don't think of the as cut-and-dried scenarios so much as
symbols in a more literary sense. Mark's performance in helping
deliver those nine babies one night was one example.

[Peter]

>That notwithstanding, I was still somewhat
>surprised to see Peter suddenly passionate about the Vucelich affair
>again, on which I thought he'd all but given up. I also noted the irony
>inherent in the fact that, after being snubbed by his fellow doctors for
>snitching on one of them, he's finally prepared to do the same thing yet
>again, this time in the cause of honor.

I wasn't surprised at all.
Peter is as consistently drawn as any other character on the show, and
he has (among others) two important characteristics.

First, he really doesn't care too much what other people think about
him. Sure he cares a little-- we all do-- but he cares a lot less
than many others would. And once he's categorized someone as
worthless, then he _really_ doesn't give a damn what they think.

Vucelich, in showing himself to be nothing but a glory hound willing
to fake data in what should be scientific report, reduced himself to
the position of worthless in Peter's mind. Other surgeons, in being
more concerned with appearances and the buddy system than with science
and healing, reduce themselves to that level also. Of course, he's on
thin ice with that characterziation, until he actually puts forth the
evidence.

Second, he keeps his feelings private. I wouldn't be surprised to see
Peter or someone like him keep silent about something for a year, or
even five years, only to discover that it bothered him every day of
those years. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he'd dropped
it, either.

Peter is a very private man, and difficult to read at the best of
times.

[Shep]

> Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the
>effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep
>revealing himself as an abusive type.

I gots one, and only one question here.
Did anyone happen to see if the people who were part of the
disturbance were dominated by any one ethnicity in particular?

I didn't think to look until much later.

[Carter]

>Meanwhile, all I've got to say is that while
>his pathetic stunt of oneupmanship is pretty typical of the Carter we've
>seen lately, the new stripe of jealousy wears even less attractively on
>him. Carter strives to such lengths for such an empty goal; he was the
>one taking Harper on a moonlight cruise, for pete's sake, so Dale was
>less than a non-threat.

Yup.
And it finally dawned on me why Carter acts the way he does.
This may be obvious to everyone else, though.

Did I say Peter is a very private man who really doesn't give a damn
what other people think about him? Of course I did. And Carter is
just exactly the opposite. As different as night and day, those two.

Carter, for all his obvious surgical talent, really hasn't a shred of
self-confidence. He cares _entirely_ too much about what people think
and entirely too much about what people _might_ think. His every
thought is broadcast in his attitude and his actions.

He's a surgeon because surgery is regarded as one of the most
difficult specializations-- if they could work it into the story
reasonably, no doubt he'd specialize in neurosurgery. He's trying to
prove to himself that he can do it. He's as much as admitted it time
and again.

He's continually trying to impress others, Harper in particular. He's
not really trying to show other people up (except in this case, where
he is trying to show up the new guy) he's just trying to impress
people at the unwitting expense of anyone else.

He has the tendency to try and please everyone, too. He please Benton
by helping get him onto Vucelich's research team, tried to please the
other residents by doing as well as he can, tries to please Harper by
doing anything he can to impress her, tries to please his patients by
putting good spins on everything.

Deep flaws, and interesting ones, because none of his flaws would
really be flaws if only he exercised some moderation and gained some
self-respect for himself.

He is a surgeon because surgery is difficult, but he is doctor because
he wants to heal people (evidence by the story about his brother, and
the obvious empathy he has with his patients.) He tries to please and
impress people because he wants them to _like_ him.

There's more than enough room for Carter's redemption... Somehow.
But I've never been very good at building up peoples' self-respects,
so I don't know how it would come about. I'm much more like Benton.

(Benton, of course, has no flaws...)

[Doug]

> Speaking of leaping into bed with strange women, Doug seems
>poised to do just that, and with the added bite of his mate being a
>possible steal from the despised old man.

Anyone who doesn't see this coming, please raise their hands.
Right. Thought so.

Gettin' like a soap opera with this one.
Sheesh.

> -Dr. Hicks' ominous pronouncements concerning the "pyramid
>system" of weeding out interns struck me as primarily the tension device
>that Carter will have to overcome to stay on the show come this time
>next season. How's that for foreshadowing?

Another symptom of Carter's low self-esteem.
He's a _damned_ good doctor and a very promising surgeon.
Whatever his personal flaws, Benton endorses him even though the two
of them are polar opposites.

That clinches it for me.

Carter should realize he has no worries, except those of his own
making.

> -I didn't mention it in the main summary, but I found fairly
>significant Jeanie's side of the argument she had with Peter: she
>attributes his standoffishness to him not being over their breakup.
>Peter looks at her and says, "I am past it -- way past it" -- and you
>know, I think that he means it, or at least he thinks he means it.

I was wondering if you'd mention this.
I agree for the most part-- if he doesn't mean, then at the very
least, he thinks he means it.

If Jeanie were paying attention, she'd notice that Peter treats just
about everyone the way he treats her. Not that it doesn't mean he's
bothered, just that it means no one knows but Peter.

> -Line of the week (2) --
> Reilly: (reading button) "'All the Way with LBJ'? What's that
> about?"

I'm only 24, and I cringed-- deeply-- when I heard that.

--
John S. Novak, III j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
http://cegt201.bradley.edu/~jsn/index.html
The Humblest Man on the Net

[William December Starr]

In article <4lqk1m$s...@kernighan.cs.umass.edu>,

bar...@fiji.cs.umass.edu (David Mix Barrington) said:

>> She didn't figure very highly into the episode, but Kerry
>> Weaver's time on-camera was quintessential Kerryesque. The idea
>> of videotaping the trauma procedures could have only come from
>> her, and her quirky sense of humor exhibited when she took
>> pleasure from playing and replaying Carter's unhygienic misstep.

>> [Scott Hollifield]

>
> Not to mention the Perot-style charts with Mrs. Garvey and the
> Madden-style telestrator work. Kerry manages to be hilarious,
> aggravating, and oddly lovable at the same time -- I hope we see
> more of her.

If by "more of her" you mean her entrails spread out on the ER floor
for all to see, then I'm all for it.

Just out of curiosity, how many people think that she'd be getting
away with things like interrupting Susan while she (Susan) is in the
middle of removing glass fragments from someone's eye, or playing
Mark's accidentally taped private conversation with Doug _in its
entirety_ if she didn't have a physical handicap that renders her
practically immune to any serious criticism?

-- William December Starr <wds...@crl.com>

[John Novak]

In <4lr9eq$a...@mark.ucdavis.edu> ez05...@boris.ucdavis.edu (Daniel Wolfe) writes:

>: -She didn't figure very highly into the episode, but Kerry

>: Weaver's time on-camera was quintessential Kerryesque.

>You seem amused by her antics, but I thought it was unprofessional of her

>first to ridicule Carter like that

This, I can understand and even defend. Among other things, that's a
mistake Carter will never _ever_ make again, and no doubt a mistake
that a whole bunch of people will never make.

But then, I have a nasty streak in me.

and it was totally improper of her

>to let Mark and Doug's conversation run. After two words, she should
>have know it was private and hit stop, pause, rewind, fast forward, mute,

>or any of a half-dozen other buttons on your standard remote control, but

>she let the conversation run all the way.

This, I agree with. That was nasty above and beyond the call.
Was I the only one who had the feeling that Doug had a hand in setting
that up, as well?

[Kim Rivers]

My thought on a couple plotthreads....

With regards to Shep's increasing violence:

My take at all this is that Shep is so angry at himself/the world/whatever
over Raul's death that he wants to take it out somewhere, punish somebody
for it, but there's no "somebody" to punish. (Those of you who've had
loved one dies might know the feeling -- that sense of Great Unfairness where
you want to BLAME somebody (God, Life, Whatever) and strike back -- BUT --
there's really no legitimate target to take it out on.)

Most of us would probably internalize the anger, get an ulcer, throw ourselves
into work or some hobby or whatever, Shep is instead expressing
it by overreact-
ing to ANY semi-reasonable target. This man attacks Carol (I
dare say he
would have attacked the Button Man if the Button Man had grabbed
even Riley's
throat) -- Shep finds a semi-legit target and clobbers him. Guy
breaks
the ambulance's windshield (I thought the guy just stepped out in
front of
Shep, which is why Shep almost ran him over, not that Shep was
being
careless, but of course, I'm "proShep" ;) -- Shep overreacts and
clobbers him.

He's pissed at the world, it seems, for the unfairness of Raul's death (and
his daily job doesn't exactly let him see the bright side -- people don't call
for ambulances because something Happy and Cheerful is happening), and his
increasingly pessimistic attitude seems to fit in. Also, it wouldn't surprise
me if Shep is barrelling along, sort of "looking for a bullet" without seeking
it directly. You know, putting yourself in danger of getting really hurt in
the self-rationalization that if it happens, you deserved it.

Just my theory. Didn't even consider that he's from an abusive childhood/has
always had some emotional problems/etc. I figured Shep was a down-to-earth,
impulsive kind of guy who has been saddled with some serious emotional trauma
right now. I could very well be wrong.

Of all the people around, being paired up with Carol is an interesting choice
*if* the writers remember that Carol apparantly had some serious emotional
trauma not that long ago -- she, of all people, should know self-destructive
behavior.

With regards to Benton's brushing off Jeanie with "I'm over it,
I'm way over it",
I thought that was Benton being his typical Benton self. After
all, *he*'s
Peter Benton, do you think he's really going to admit that such
an insignificant
little think like a relationship is going to set one feather out
of place?
Hell no. :) I suspect Benton isn't really over a ton of things
(what those
things are, I dunno, but they're whatever turned this guy into
the frosty
character he is today), but it'll be a chilly day in Hell before
Benton's
likely to admit it, to himself or anybody else.

Just my two cents (well, maybe a nickle's worth),

kim
--
-- I work for Digital. I don't speak for 'em.

[Shannon Travolta]

Scott Hollifield <Sco...@cris.com> wrote:

> pis...@onr.com wrote:
>: It's like the writers are saying that Carol is "going along" with the
>: relationship with Shep, and actually has feelings for him, but deep, very
>: deep inside, there are unresolved feelings for Doug.
>
>I don't feel they're saying that -- otherwise we'd be seeing some kind of
>connection with Doug on the show, and it's just not there. I both hope
>and believe that if Carol has problems that are causing her to be overly
>passive, they're not related to Doug, whom she should well be over.

I'm glad that this came up -- I was just thinking last night that
Doug and Carol always seem to be positioned near each other. For
instance, in this ep while watching the video in the trauma room,
they were seated next to one another. Also, I noticed that in
the ep with the fire, Doug and Carol had a lot of interaction.
He wanted to be the one to tell her that Shep may have been hurt.
More than that though, it seems that in every episode there's a
fleeting shot of Doug and Carol laughing or just standing together.

I agree that she should well be over him, but I don't think that
the writers want us to forget their history. Perhaps the door is
being left open, just in case? In any case, I agree
wholeheartedly that she has been extremely passive in her
relationship with Shep. He makes sweeping statements about the
future and she never specifically verbalizes her agreement or
disagreement. But I also believe that it's only natural for
Carol to be wary of getting close to Shep, given her experience
with Doug.

In any event, I have a nagging little feeling that Doug and Carol
don't have closure.

--
Shannon King sk...@cs.smith.edu
"You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field full of
horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and did the clue
mating dance." -- Edward Flaherty

[Ceon Ramon]

In article <4lto75$6...@tribune.concentric.net>,

Scott Hollifield <Sco...@cris.com> wrote:
>Barbara Hlavin (ce...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
>: [Scott]

>: >>> Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the

>: >>>effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep

>: >>>revealing himself as an abusive type. At the time, I didn't believe it,
>
>: And my reaction was that I could in fact find it credible that he would at
>: some future time lash out at her, perhaps out of frustration and without
>: intending to hurt her.
>
>Well, at least you didn't say 'I told you so'. :)

OK, you son of a gun :-); here's my prediction.

Shep will present Carol with an ultimatum. He will tell her that he
expects her to marry him, quit her job, move to some rural area (Montana,
Idaho), and raise children. As a sop to her education, he may suggest
that she become a part-time teacher or pharmacist in whatever small town
he's picked out.

Carol will say no. Shep will go berserk. What form this berserk-ness
will take I don't know. I don't really expect that he'll be physically
brutal to her, but given the background of frustration and incipient rage
we've seen building in him I wouldn't rule it out, either. If it does
takes a physical form, I'd guess it would be something like a violent
back-handed whack that will knock Carol off her feet and that will
astonish and horrify both of them.

Then Shep will run off to Montana or Idaho and uh join a militia.

Editorial: Shep has a shallow, one-dimesional perception of life, while
Carol is deeply intuitive and full of conflict. Please note that I am not
xcriticizing or condemning Shep; I am not anti-Shep. This is only my
personal speculation based on observation of his character.

Shep will present this to Carol as if it were something they had agreed
upon, oblivous, as usual, to her deeper feelings and reservations about
their relationship. This is not entirely his fault as Carol is reluctant
or maybe even incapable of sharing her real feelings. This may be
because she is afraid that revealing them is dangerous to her safety.

Carol has the ability to see beneath the skin of of people, and sometimes,
as in the case of Shep, this makes her feel a kind of commitment to the
person. She can see where they are frightened and hurt and vulnerable,
and feels a consequent obligation to help them. This is a great curse,
especially as she is uncertain about where to establish limits.

So, Scott. I am willing to bet you a four-course dinner cooked by me and
followed by a late ramble through the micro-breweries of Fremont with a
final visit to the Troll under the bridge that this is almost exactly what
will happen between Shep and Carol.

Deal?

--Barbaara

[J Lanier]

In <DqH7w...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Callen Hall <ac...@galen.med.virginia.edu> writes:

>I don't know. I felt that the emphasis Chloe placed on the fact that
>Susie was lucky to have an AUNT who would always be there for her leads
>me to think that Chloe has something else entirely in mind. And the bit
>about singing "Blackbird" - I don't know, that really gave me the creeps.

Yeah, that was a little surrealistic.

[J Lanier]

In <jillk-26049...@selena.ultranet.com> ji...@ultranet.com (Jill Kaszynski) writes:

>In article <4lpqvd$g...@tribune.concentric.net>, Sco...@cris.com (Scott
>Hollifield) wrote:

>> I found fairly
>> significant Jeanie's side of the argument she had with Peter: she
>> attributes his standoffishness to him not being over their breakup.
>> Peter looks at her and says, "I am past it -- way past it" -- and you
>> know, I think that he means it, or at least he thinks he means it.

>I interpreted Peter's statement as an attempt to hurt Jeannie and an
>attempt to save face.

I would agree with this.

[J Lanier]

In <4lr856$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> net...@aol.com (Netnom) writes:

>From: Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield)
>\
>> I found fairlysignificant Jeanie's side of the argument she had with
>>Peter: she attributes his standoffishness to him not being over their
>>breakup. Peter looks at her and says, "I am past it -- way past it" --
>>and you know, I think that he means it, or at least he thinks he means
>it.

>Oh, he *thinks* he means it! I thought it was obvious from the writing
>AND the actor's delivery of this line that it's far from true!

>> If my theory is correct, it connects to an incident early this season
>>where Jeanie misattributed a conflict she had with Peter to their
>>relationship, when it was, in the end, really just Peter being Peter. I
>>have a small hunch that Jeanie is suffering from the same mild delusion

This may not be so much a delusion as a reasonable assumption on her part
(given their previously intimate relationship with Benton) which may
simply be incorrect. Although I tend to think it's a mixture of both,
that is, Peter being Peter *and* his not being quite over her. He seems
to be the type of person who likes to call the shots. If it was Jeanie
who called off the relationship, rather than himself, than his reaction
might be one of getting back at her for usurping some of the control over
things he is accustomed to having, especially after having let down his
guard somewhat.

And if you recall during the first season, a similar type of interaction
occurred between he and another female resident (who I believe was a year
or two ahead of him) over some sort of scholarship or something. They
seemed to get along well enough until the scholarship recipient was
announced, than he began brushing her off. She implied that he was
attracted to her, but her beating him out on the scholarship, presented a
conflict for him, since he thinks he's the best at everything. In typical
Benton style, he smirked and basically told her she was so way off base
that it was laughable, but you could see he took pleasure in deflating her
sails, even though he might actually have been somewhat attracted to her.

SCOTT SAID:
>>here, and if so, it's an interesting character aspect that raises some
>>puzzling implications (does Jeanie's Peter-myopia mean that she
>>subconsciously wants to get back together with him? - to name one). Of
>>course, I could well be dead wrong, and Peter still does harbor feelings
>>for her. Time will tell.

NETNOM SAID:
>maybe it's the gender difference here (you're a man, i'm a woman) but i
>think it's clear that just the opposite is true....that peter is *not*
>over Jeanie and *is* taking his unresolved feelings out on her (yes, the
>fact that Peter is always brusque etc. makes it less obvious, but to me
>it's still obvious.) Remember that she was the one who ended the affair
>and she was the married, unattainable one etc. so it's logical that he
>would be the more wounded one.

I tend to agree with this.

[J Lanier]

In <4lrgfu$l...@tribune.concentric.net> Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:

>In one sense, the show played it easy by not showing any reprisals from
>the Mendozas. What would Peter have done if Mr. Mendoza threatened a
>lawsuit?

I am still not convinced that there might not be some repercussions for
Benton's confession. Mr. Mendoza was pretty upset that his wife had been
discharged when her medical condition was actually very serious. Just
because that particular scene ended without any reaction from Mendoza
doesn't meant that's the end of the matter. Still got 3 or 4 more
episodes to go!

[Carl]

>Um... I don't get it. What's so horrible about these things?

There is a reason that old timers are not supposed to romance
newcomers (called thirteenth stepping in 12 step slang). Newcomers are
going through perhaps the most difficult time of their lives, as they
attempt to change the habits of a lifetime-not just stopping the use
of whatever their drug of choice was, but changing the very thought
patterns and long held ideas that supported them in their addiction.
It's a very raw, and difficult time, and newcomers need support from
old timers. It's easy, in such cases, for an attachment to form that
is based more on dependency than intimacy-kind of like the crushes
that patients can get on their doctors.

Carl

[Apryl]

Along with this, I was under the impression that people who are new to
recovery are recommended to not get involved in ANY new relationships. Like
new jobs, or a move, or anything like that. At least at first. While they are
getting 'clean'.

For this man, who is himself a recovering alcoholic, to allow himself to
become involved with a person in that critical first year of sobriety, I
wonder what his motives are? They would have had to spend some time together
to get to the falling in love stage? (this is tv, folks).

And I wonder why he mentioned this to Susan, who didn't seem to be aware of
that being so critical to Chloe's recovery. Maybe the writers are going to
have them ultimately NOT get married. Why else would they have put that in
there?

Apryl
Who is so glad she's finally seen the episode

[Scott Hollifield]

John Novak (j...@cegt201.bradley.edu) wrote:
: Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:
: >That notwithstanding, I was still somewhat surprised to see Peter

: >suddenly passionate about the Vucelich affair again, on which I thought
: >he'd all but given up.

: I wasn't surprised at all.

I guess I should say that I was really just taken off-guard -- not
surprised that Peter should finally do it, because it's obviously very
much in tune with his characterization, as you point out.

: > Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the

: >effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep
: >revealing himself as an abusive type.

: I gots one, and only one question here.
: Did anyone happen to see if the people who were part of the
: disturbance were dominated by any one ethnicity in particular?

Given the nature of the complaints, I'm inclined to speculate that
ethnicity wasn't a factor -- besides, this was before Shep's racism
controversy.

: If Jeanie were paying attention, she'd notice that Peter treats just

: about everyone the way he treats her. Not that it doesn't mean he's
: bothered, just that it means no one knows but Peter.

Bingo.

[Scott Hollifield]

Barbara Hlavin (ce...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: Scott Hollifield <Sco...@cris.com> wrote:
[re: Shep]
: >Well, at least you didn't say 'I told you so'. :)

: OK, you son of a gun :-); here's my prediction.

: Shep will present Carol with an ultimatum. He will tell her that he
: expects her to marry him, quit her job, move to some rural area (Montana,
: Idaho), and raise children. As a sop to her education, he may suggest
: that she become a part-time teacher or pharmacist in whatever small town
: he's picked out.

: Carol will say no. Shep will go berserk. What form this berserk-ness

: will take I don't know. I don't really expect that he'll be physically

: brutal to her, but given the background of frustration and incipient rage
: we've seen building in him I wouldn't rule it out, either. If it does
: takes a physical form, I'd guess it would be something like a violent
: back-handed whack that will knock Carol off her feet and that will
: astonish and horrify both of them.

: Then Shep will run off to Montana or Idaho and uh join a militia.

[qualifications on Barbara's opinion deleted for space]

: So, Scott. I am willing to bet you a four-course dinner cooked by me and

: followed by a late ramble through the micro-breweries of Fremont with a
: final visit to the Troll under the bridge that this is almost exactly what
: will happen between Shep and Carol.

I'll take that bet.

(...keeping in mind the most recent episode of Seinfeld...)

Although to be frank, I think Shep may take more of a Div-like detour --
he'll be visibly troubled, and aggressively so, but not violently so -- I
don't think he'll go so far as to raise a hand to Carol. But his
depression will drive him out of their relationship and off the show.

Now, what happens if I'm wrong?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Scott Hollifield]

William December Starr (wds...@crl.com) wrote:
[re: Kerry]
: If by "more of her" you mean her entrails spread out on the ER floor

: for all to see, then I'm all for it.

: Just out of curiosity, how many people think that she'd be getting
: away with things like interrupting Susan while she (Susan) is in the
: middle of removing glass fragments from someone's eye, or playing
: Mark's accidentally taped private conversation with Doug _in its
: entirety_ if she didn't have a physical handicap that renders her
: practically immune to any serious criticism?

(raising hand)

The reason Kerry seems to be made of teflon has nothing to do with her
disability, and everything to do with her confident, intimidating
personality that tends to shrug off any sort of criticism.

[BamBam]

On 27 Apr 1996, William December Starr wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, how many people think that she'd be getting
> away with things like interrupting Susan while she (Susan) is in the
> middle of removing glass fragments from someone's eye, or playing
> Mark's accidentally taped private conversation with Doug _in its
> entirety_ if she didn't have a physical handicap that renders her
> practically immune to any serious criticism?

I wondered why someone would bring up the "special treatment" bit...sigh...

I don't think it has anything at all to do with that, but instead with
her rather forceful personality (and the fact that she is, after all, the
person in charge of them all except for Mark). But assume away...

[Scott Hollifield]

J Lanier (jla...@panix.com) wrote:
: And if you recall during the first season, a similar type of interaction

: occurred between he and another female resident (who I believe was a year
: or two ahead of him) over some sort of scholarship or something. They
: seemed to get along well enough until the scholarship recipient was
: announced, than he began brushing her off. She implied that he was
: attracted to her, but her beating him out on the scholarship, presented a
: conflict for him, since he thinks he's the best at everything. In typical
: Benton style, he smirked and basically told her she was so way off base
: that it was laughable, but you could see he took pleasure in deflating her
: sails, even though he might actually have been somewhat attracted to her.

Thanks for reminding me about that, J. Yup, that was Dr. Langworthy
(played by Tyra Ferrell), who vied with Peter for the prestigious Stargill
fellowship. I'd really like to see those episodes again; I think it'd be
enlightening to watch with the benefit of hindsight.

[Scott Hollifield]

Carl (and...@omni.voicenet.com) wrote:

: Scott Hollifleld (sco...@cris.com) wrote:
: >Um... I don't get it. What's so horrible about these things?

: There is a reason that old timers are not supposed to romance
: newcomers (called thirteenth stepping in 12 step slang). Newcomers are
: going through perhaps the most difficult time of their lives, as they
: attempt to change the habits of a lifetime-not just stopping the use
: of whatever their drug of choice was, but changing the very thought
: patterns and long held ideas that supported them in their addiction.
: It's a very raw, and difficult time, and newcomers need support from
: old timers. It's easy, in such cases, for an attachment to form that
: is based more on dependency than intimacy-kind of like the crushes
: that patients can get on their doctors.

I understand that; what I don't understand is why the original poster who
lambasted Joe said that she "hated" Joe immediately, partially for
that, and that Chloe was still a "loser".

[LA CAIMAN]

In article <4lpqvd$g...@tribune.concentric.net>, Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:
>E.R., Season 2, Episode 19, "Fire in the Belly"
>Production number #457219
>Written by: Paul Manning
>Directed by: Felix Enriquez Alcala'

<SNIP>

Carol tries to cope with a
>young boy named Jeremy who's in shock from having witnessed his mother's
>gunshot murder point-blank, and at one point, Jeremy escapes the staffs'
>supervision and is found standing idly down the hall, staring at a
>bloodied patient in another room. Later, a homeless man plastered in
>commemorative buttons from head to toe is brought into the ER, and
>without warning, goes berserk; Shep gets a scraped face for his trouble
>in trying to restrain the man. While getting patched up, Shep bemoans
>the chaotic state of urban society, and pointedly tells Carol: "We're
>not raising our kids here." (Her response, after reflection, is a
>pensive "Okay.") At the end of the day, Carol is accompanying Shep in
>the ambulance when they run into some sort of disturbance on the street.
>Without warning, a man tosses a brick at the ambulance's windshield,
>which throws Shep into a frenzy; he leaps from the vehicle, tackles the
>man and pummels him repeatedly in the face. When Carol tries to
>restrain Shep, he abruptly turns to raise a fist at her, but stops
>himself.

-The woman whom he was looking at was his own mother. If you remember, Weaver
had her removed from Exam 3 (?) after Path hadn't come to pick her up and she
wanted to set up the video equipment. The body wasn't covered and was just sort
of lying there in some trauma room (I think) and that's where Jeremy found her.
I almost cried at that part.

-The homeless man not only went berserk, but he grabbed Carol by the throat and
tried to choke her. I think that was an important point to make, seeing as some
did point out that Shep is waay too protective of the people he loves-- to the
point that he'll kill anyone who tries to hurt her. And later when he almost
hit her... well I wish I could say that I've seen this one coming but I don't
want too know-it-all. :)

<SNIP>

>After both woman lavish good-night kisses onto the baby, Susan watches
>somberly as Chloe takes the baby up to bed.

-Oh, and I could just loved that she put her to bed with "Blackbird." A side
note: Can someone please tell me which Beatles' album this is on? I wanna copy
of it now. :)

All in all, it felt good to breathe once the closing credits rolled. My
condolences on the loss of Paul Leder as well.

I'm graduating in a few days, and I just wanted to thank everyone on this
newsgroup for providing me with intellectual stimulation over the past few
months. I hope to regain 'Net access wherever I end up so I don't completely
lose touch!

Coleen Dyer
Indiana University of Pennsylvania

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Cheryl M. Hammond]

Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) wrote:

>The reason Kerry seems to be made of teflon has nothing to do with her
>disability, and everything to do with her confident, intimidating
>personality that tends to shrug off any sort of criticism.

Which personality, in turn, strikes me as being a direct result of the
challenges, condescension, pity, etc., that she's undoubtedly faced as
a result of people's ignorant reactions to her disability.

Chicken, egg.

cmh
--
Cheryl M. Hammond "baby i said it's all in our hands ____
bskt...@netcom.com got to learn to respect what we don't understand \ /
we are fortunate ones, fortunate ones i swear..." \/

[Ceon Ramon]

In article <4luqel$d...@cegt201.bradley.edu>,
John Novak <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:

>In <4lr9eq$a...@mark.ucdavis.edu> ez05...@boris.ucdavis.edu (Daniel Wolfe) writes:

[...]

> and it was totally improper of her
>>to let Mark and Doug's conversation run. After two words, she should
>>have know it was private and hit stop, pause, rewind, fast forward, mute,
>>or any of a half-dozen other buttons on your standard remote control, but
>>she let the conversation run all the way.
>
>This, I agree with. That was nasty above and beyond the call.
>Was I the only one who had the feeling that Doug had a hand in setting
>that up, as well?

That hadn't occurred to me. Whose idea was it to step into the room?
On the other hand, Doug couldn't have know what Mark was going to tell
him.

How many people instantly knew that this conversation was going to be
taped? (I even said it out loud -- "Damn! That's going to be on the
tape!" -- so I have witnesses :-))

--Barbara

[Mary Emily Cummins]

Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote:

: : Ha! I hated Joe. Not just that he's a recovering alcoholic...

: Well -- I would HOPE that wouldn't be total grounds to hate the man.. or
: even partial.

Wow, I realized when I reread my post that it sounded like I hated him
for that. I absolutely don't!!! I respect that part of him. It was his
relationship with Chloe that makes him suspect (in my book).

So thanks people for not thinking I was criticizing people who join AA!
I think it's a good thing to do.

Emily

--

M. Emily Cummins, delegate to the D.C. Miscing Convention

George Washington University | BA '95, Wake Forest University
Political Science Department | "Dear Old Wake Forest,
email: cum...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu | Thine is a Noble Name!"

WAKE FOREST DEMON DEACONS, ACC CHAMPS 1995 and 1996!!!

[Karen M. Codella]

On 26 Apr 1996, Jill Kaszynski wrote:

> In article <4lpqvd$g...@tribune.concentric.net>, Sco...@cris.com (Scott

> Hollifield) wrote:
>
> > I found fairly

> > significant Jeanie's side of the argument she had with Peter: she
> > attributes his standoffishness to him not being over their breakup.
> > Peter looks at her and says, "I am past it -- way past it" -- and you
> > know, I think that he means it, or at least he thinks he means it.
>

> I interpreted Peter's statement as an attempt to hurt Jeannie and an
> attempt to save face.
>
>

I agree!

[STPteach]

I think those of you who are trying to turn Kerry's disability into the
reason for her somewhat egomaniacal personality are really doing a
disservice to people with disabilities. I applaud ER for having a
character who just happens to have a physical disability without making a
story reference to it every five seconds! (Personally I think it would be
more effective if they would hire an actor or two who must deal with
physical challenges in real life... but that's JMHO!)
Anyway, I just think you're stretching the storyline a bit here.
Later,
Susan

[Scott Hollifield]

Cheryl M. Hammond (bskt...@netcom.com) wrote:
: Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) wrote:

: >The reason Kerry seems to be made of teflon has nothing to do with her
: >disability, and everything to do with her confident, intimidating
: >personality that tends to shrug off any sort of criticism.

: Which personality, in turn, strikes me as being a direct result of the
: challenges, condescension, pity, etc., that she's undoubtedly faced as
: a result of people's ignorant reactions to her disability.

: Chicken, egg.

A direct result? Indirect -- maybe. And there's been no evidence for it
so far. A person can have a personality like Kerry's without it being a
direct reaction to other problems, and I think there's an even-or-better
chance that it is here.

--

[Nancy Dooley]

In article <4lr9vd$j...@cronkite.seas.gwu.edu> cum...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Mary Emily Cummins) writes:
>From: cum...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu (Mary Emily Cummins)
>Subject: Re: ER: "Fire in the Belly" Summary/Review
>Date: 26 Apr 1996 19:59:41 GMT

>Wasn't it $5,000?

Nope. $25,000.
Nancy Dooley

"Celebrate our State." IOWA'S Sesquicentennial year, 1846-1996.

[LA CAIMAN]

In article <4ls3lc$h...@tribune.concentric.net>, Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:
>Mary Emily Cummins (cum...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu) wrote:
>
>I like Shep too, and he does seem to be turning into a more interesting
>character.
>
- A little onto the whole teeny-bopper mentality here, but I think Ron Eldard
looks OH so much better without that fuzz on his face. It can work for some
characters, but for some reason it just makes him look like, well, crap. :)

Coleen

[LA CAIMAN]

In article <4lrgfu$l...@tribune.concentric.net>, Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:

>David Mix Barrington (bar...@fiji.cs.umass.edu) wrote:

>In one sense, the show played it easy by not showing any reprisals from
>the Mendozas. What would Peter have done if Mr. Mendoza threatened a
>lawsuit?

-Let's not forget that the Mendoza situation was unresolved at the end of the
show. Mr. Mendoza may have been a little too preoccupied with his wife's
condition to think about legal retaliation. Also, we are not sure whether she
lives or dies, and if she lives then what happened still hasn't been revealed
to her yet.
On one hand, I hope that this small thing continues, but I don't because three
doctors being sued simulaneously for malpractice is too rich for my blood. If I
wanted to watch a legal show like that, I'd turn on "Law and Order." While
legal questions are very relevant in a medical drama such as this, I'd rather
the writers concentrate on Vucelich (as I think they are planning to do) than
on the Mendozas.

[Mary Emily Cummins]

Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote:
: : It's a very raw, and difficult time, and newcomers need support from

: : old timers. It's easy, in such cases, for an attachment to form that
: : is based more on dependency than intimacy-kind of like the crushes
: : that patients can get on their doctors.

: I understand that; what I don't understand is why the original poster who
: lambasted Joe said that she "hated" Joe immediately, partially for
: that, and that Chloe was still a "loser".

Hey! I was the original poster, and I already followed up to say that I
hadn't meant for the way the sentences were connected to suggest that I
hated Joe *because* he was a recovering alcoholic. Rather, I hated Joe
because of the weakness he showed in [what is apparently termed]
thirteening with Chloe. I just don't see that a few months of change for
Chloe means much. She is too erratic!

[Mary Emily Cummins]

Ceon Ramon (ce...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: OK, you son of a gun :-); here's my prediction.

: Shep will present Carol with an ultimatum. He will tell her that he
: expects her to marry him, quit her job, move to some rural area (Montana,
: Idaho), and raise children. As a sop to her education, he may suggest
: that she become a part-time teacher or pharmacist in whatever small town
: he's picked out.
: Carol will say no. Shep will go berserk. What form this berserk-ness
: will take I don't know. I don't really expect that he'll be physically
: brutal to her, but given the background of frustration and incipient rage
: we've seen building in him I wouldn't rule it out, either. If it does
: takes a physical form, I'd guess it would be something like a violent
: back-handed whack that will knock Carol off her feet and that will
: astonish and horrify both of them.
: Then Shep will run off to Montana or Idaho and uh join a militia.

: So, Scott. I am willing to bet you a four-course dinner cooked by me and

: followed by a late ramble through the micro-breweries of Fremont with a
: final visit to the Troll under the bridge that this is almost exactly what
: will happen between Shep and Carol.

Okay, I'm in for a prediction too! I predict that you all will come to
realize that Carol is still unstable and confused. She does not know
what is best for her, and she will ruin her relationship with Shep by:
Shep will make concrete plans to improve his life, and he will try to
include her, and she, unsure, will run to Doug for a night of "advice."
Then Shep will be so angry he will follow through with his plan anyway,
without her. His plan, by the way, will be to modify his life somewhat
to include more of what some great poster called "the Happy and
Cheerful." He won't necessarily quit his job, but there will be a new
aspect to his life. Perhaps he'll work at a different hospital, or will
take a lot of time off, or will get involved in efforts to stem street
and gang crime.

In essence, then, I LIKE Shep, and think he is going to go about dealing
with his life constructively from this point on. However, I predict that
Carol will be more backward than he, and will not progress.

[Scott Hollifield]

Mary Emily Cummins (cum...@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu) wrote:

: Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote:
: : : It's a very raw, and difficult time, and newcomers need support from
: : : old timers. It's easy, in such cases, for an attachment to form that
: : : is based more on dependency than intimacy-kind of like the crushes
: : : that patients can get on their doctors.

: : I understand that; what I don't understand is why the original poster who
: : lambasted Joe said that she "hated" Joe immediately, partially for
: : that, and that Chloe was still a "loser".

: Hey! I was the original poster, and I already followed up to say that I
: hadn't meant for the way the sentences were connected to suggest that I
: hated Joe *because* he was a recovering alcoholic. Rather, I hated Joe
: because of the weakness he showed in [what is apparently termed]
: thirteening with Chloe. I just don't see that a few months of change for
: Chloe means much. She is too erratic!

Sorry, Emily, I did mean to acknowledge your clarification earlier. But I
still disagree that Joe's relationship with Chloe automatically means he
is "weak" -- we don't know him well enough to say that, I feel.

[John Novak]

In <4m07kc$o...@tribune.concentric.net> Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:

[Benton]

>: I wasn't surprised at all.

>I guess I should say that I was really just taken off-guard -- not
>surprised that Peter should finally do it, because it's obviously very
>much in tune with his characterization, as you point out.

Okay. I can see that.
I didn't expect it to happen this week, for instance, I was ust kind
of idly waiting for it in general.

[Shep]

>: I gots one, and only one question here.
>: Did anyone happen to see if the people who were part of the
>: disturbance were dominated by any one ethnicity in particular?

>Given the nature of the complaints, I'm inclined to speculate that
>ethnicity wasn't a factor -- besides, this was before Shep's racism
>controversy.

Huh?
One of us is misunderstanding the other.
In last Thursday's episode, were the people on the streets of any
given ethnicity?

--
John S. Novak, III j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
http://cegt201.bradley.edu/~jsn/index.html
The Humblest Man on the Net

[John Novak]

In <4m0mlv$5...@nntp4.u.washington.edu> ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) writes:

>That hadn't occurred to me. Whose idea was it to step into the room?
>On the other hand, Doug couldn't have know what Mark was going to tell
>him.

I don't know that Doug purposefully recorded it, but I wouldn't be
surprised if he realized later it had been taped, and made sure it got
played.

[Monica J. Turk]

In article <4lr9eq$a...@mark.ucdavis.edu>, ez05...@boris.ucdavis.edu
(Daniel Wolfe) wrote:

I don't feel like quoting everyone, but here are a couple of thoughts:

1) I think Carter's actions were certainly sneaky, but understandable
under the dog-eat-dog conditions he is under. Harper, on the other hand,
has no ambition whatsoever, and seems more interested in sleeping with as
many men as possible than in her career. OK, so I hate her character, I
think she has been little more than a body for Carter to be involved in,
and I don't like the way the writers have used her. Ming Na-Wen's
character was much more interesting. I think women have different
problems than men in the world of medicine, very few of which have been
addressed through Lewis. She was already established in her career,
Harper is not, and frankly I think in the real world she, like Ming Na-Wen
(but for opposite reasons) would be a wash-out.

2) Shep is obviously a very angry person, and needs counseling to deal
with it. But I also found myself marvelling at the way he seems to seek
out trouble now. I found myself wondering if he had a death wish, brought
on by feelings of guilt after Raoul's death. As for the scene with Carol
and the mention of kids, it's amazing how we all read different things
into that look she gave him. Myself, I think Julianna did a wonderful job
of conveying all those things: "What, you're thinking of kids already?"
"Well, OK, maybe its something to think about." "I wouldn't mind getting
out of the city myself." and last but not least "This is not the place to
have this kind of conversation." I though her lack of an actual response
was a very wise decision to postpone any kind of discussion about it until
she had had time to consider it.

3) Finally, Peter comes around. I don't think that Hicks goaded him into
it, however, as someone suggested. She warned him against it in the first
place. She has always told him to shut up and play the game right. I
find it most interesting, however, that Peter was already ostracized by
the rest of the surgeons in the hospital, making it that much easier for
him to make a decision to take the kind of risk with his career that
turning in Vucelich would be. I wonder if his willingness to call
Vucelich to the carpet will restore him in their eyes, or completely
shatter any relationships he might have with them.

4) I didn't like Joe. I think his admission to breaking the "rules" of
AA was a clear indication from the writers that he is not entirely
responsible himself, and is inclined to be a little impulsive rather than
doing the mature thing. Not that that makes him a bad guy, but it makes
me think he is not an entirely stable force himself. Interesting that he
assumes Chloe will make it to a year of sobriety, and Susan has doubts. I
took the "Blackbird" song as an indication that Chloe does in fact have
motherly instincts, and may make it after all.

Overall, I though this was actually a pretty fluffy episode, a kind of
transition from the old stories to whatever we will be hit with in the
season-enders.

[pis...@onr.com]

Shannon Travolta wrote:
>
> Scott Hollifield <Sco...@cris.com> wrote:
>

> > pis...@onr.com wrote:
> >: It's like the writers are saying that Carol is "going along" with the
> >: relationship with Shep, and actually has feelings for him, but deep, very
> >: deep inside, there are unresolved feelings for Doug.
> >
> >I don't feel they're saying that -- otherwise we'd be seeing some kind of
> >connection with Doug on the show, and it's just not there. I both hope
> >and believe that if Carol has problems that are causing her to be overly
> >passive, they're not related to Doug, whom she should well be over.

[S. Travolta's paragraph citing examples of the constant physical
proximity of Doug and Carol snipped]

> I agree that she should well be over him, but I don't think that
> the writers want us to forget their history. Perhaps the door is
> being left open, just in case? In any case, I agree
> wholeheartedly that she has been extremely passive in her
> relationship with Shep. He makes sweeping statements about the
> future and she never specifically verbalizes her agreement or
> disagreement. But I also believe that it's only natural for
> Carol to be wary of getting close to Shep, given her experience
> with Doug. In any event, I have a nagging little feeling that Doug
> and Carol don't have closure.

Exactly my point. The soap-opera-watcher part of me sees a future close
encounter for these two, maybe not this season, but definately at some
point. It will probably happen when one or both are in a vulnerable state.
The question is, who will run to whom? The writers don't actively pursue
this week-in and week-out because we would get sick of it and declare that
ER has become - ick! - another prime-time soap opera. So far, they've
managed to carry on with other unresolved relationships (Peter and Jeannie),
near-relationships (Mark and Susan, Susan and Carter-though this was a
crush) and real relationships (Mark and Nancy, Susan and Div, Carol and
Tag, Carol and Doug, Carol and Shep, Carter and Harper, and the others)
without turning the show into the later seasons of L.A. Law where the
relationships were forced (think: Arnie and Roxanne - bleccch!) just to
add sex to the show since they ran out of decent legal plots.

I'm not saying that they are "destined" to be together, like soulmates, but
that there are still unresolved hots for each other. What I need to do is
rent the pilot episode from Blockbuster and see if there is something about
their that can be gleaned from that show. All I remember is that they broke
up, and she committed suicide (but was "rescued" for the series - she dies in
the pilot).

Lynn

[Scott Hollifield]

Here's where our misunderstanding lay, John (well, my misunderstanding of
you, that is):

Scott Hollifield (Sco...@cris.com) wrote:
: Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the
: effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep
: revealing himself as an abusive type.

John Novak (j...@cegt201.bradley.edu) wrote:
: I gots one, and only one question here.
: Did anyone happen to see if the people who were part of the
: disturbance were dominated by any one ethnicity in particular?

Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:
: Given the nature of the complaints, I'm inclined to speculate that

: ethnicity wasn't a factor -- besides, this was before Shep's racism
: controversy.

See, I thought you were referring to the "disturbance" here on alt.tv.er
-- i.e. the clamor of people speculating that Shep was a bruiser following
the rumor about him abusing Carol. Had I been reading a bit more
carefully, I might have realized that you were referring to the street
disturbance in the 4/25 episode. I throw myself on the mercy of the
court. :)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ceon Ramon]

In article <4m3k77$d...@cegt201.bradley.edu>,

John Novak <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
>In <4m0mlv$5...@nntp4.u.washington.edu> ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) writes:
>
>>That hadn't occurred to me. Whose idea was it to step into the room?
>>On the other hand, Doug couldn't have know what Mark was going to tell
>>him.
>
>I don't know that Doug purposefully recorded it, but I wouldn't be
>surprised if he realized later it had been taped, and made sure it got
>played.

I really don't believe that Doug would be that malicious. He is, after
all, Mark's friend, and that was a pretty humiliating experience for Mark.

--Barbara

[jls]

> That hadn't occurred to me. Whose idea was it to step into the room?
> On the other hand, Doug couldn't have know what Mark was going to tell
> him.

Mark saw one of nurses (which one?) standing by and looked back and
motioned Doug to enter into the room. Doug had nothing to do with
heading Mark into the room.

I doubt Doug had anything to do with playing the tape late, but he may
have. I do tend to believe that Weaver may have done so. She DID see the
tape beforehand (since she said she would show a better run trauma) and
may have purposely done this. I'm starting to like Weaver... :)

jls

[Joanne W]

jls wrote:
>
> I doubt Doug had anything to do with playing the tape late, but he may
> have. I do tend to believe that Weaver may have done so. She DID see the
> tape beforehand (since she said she would show a better run trauma) and
> may have purposely done this. I'm starting to like Weaver... :)
>
> jls

I don't think Doug realized their conversation was being taped, and I
certainly don't think he had a hand in playing it before the whole staff --
as another poster said, he is Mark's friend and I don't think he would
behave so maliciously toward his friend. Sure, he's a real creep sometimes,
but for the most part I don't think he's malicious, just thoughtless and
impulsive.

I thought it was incredibly cruel of Kerry Weaver to humiliate Mark in front
of everyone by playing the entire conversation for them -- she had obviously
seen the tape already. I, too, was starting to like Weaver...but not any
more. Her "pain-in-the-ass-ness" has been, in the past, mostly out of her
desire to improve the service in the ER, and I could respect that. But this
incident was just being a pain in the ass for the sake of being a pain in the
ass. It was just plain nasty.

Joanne

[Nancy Dooley]

In article <mturk-29049...@10.0.2.15> mt...@reed.edu (Monica J. Turk) writes:
>From: mt...@reed.edu (Monica J. Turk)

>Subject: Re: ER: "Fire in the Belly" Summary/Review

>Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 20:12:39 -0700

>In article <4lr9eq$a...@mark.ucdavis.edu>, ez05...@boris.ucdavis.edu
>(Daniel Wolfe) wrote:

>I don't feel like quoting everyone, but here are a couple of thoughts:

>1) I think Carter's actions were certainly sneaky, but understandable
>under the dog-eat-dog conditions he is under. Harper, on the other hand,
>has no ambition whatsoever, and seems more interested in sleeping with as
>many men as possible than in her career. OK, so I hate her character, I
>think she has been little more than a body for Carter to be involved in,
>and I don't like the way the writers have used her. Ming Na-Wen's
>character was much more interesting. I think women have different
>problems than men in the world of medicine, very few of which have been
>addressed through Lewis. She was already established in her career,
>Harper is not, and frankly I think in the real world she, like Ming Na-Wen
>(but for opposite reasons) would be a wash-out.

O.k., I'm a Harper fan...but you're much too forgiving to Carter, and much too
judgmental on Harper. Carter's actions understandable? I don't believe we
can excuse most of his behavior this season. He seems a will-o-the-wisp,
blowing this way and that in the wind, depending on who can do him a favor
at the moment, or what is in his best interest at the time. Harper has no
ambition? What have you seen that says that? We haven't seen a lot of her in
action, but during her first season, she seemed very eager to learn and
advance. She appears to have appropriate medical knowledge for her level
of education - after all, she's the one who caught the problem that Carter
took credit for. She hasn't been a central-enough character for you to make
the judgment that she hasn't any ambition. "Sleeping with as many men...?"
How so? We know in her earlier school days, she slept once with Dale. We
know that after a few dates with Carter, she slept with him. We know that she
slept once with Doug as an empathy/sympathy thing. 3 men? In how many years?
You're too harsh.

>3) Finally, Peter comes around. I don't think that Hicks goaded him into
>it, however, as someone suggested. She warned him against it in the first
>place. She has always told him to shut up and play the game right. I
>find it most interesting, however, that Peter was already ostracized by
>the rest of the surgeons in the hospital, making it that much easier for
>him to make a decision to take the kind of risk with his career that
>turning in Vucelich would be. I wonder if his willingness to call
>Vucelich to the carpet will restore him in their eyes, or completely
>shatter any relationships he might have with them.

Peter comes around because he's an opportunist. He doesn't like being
ostracized; Hicks made him see the writing on the wall - remember, "Reap what
you sow?" I think he thinks it's more important to make nice with Hicks,
because she's in a power position and likely to stay in it, than with
Vucelich, who may not be there after the sh*t hits the fan on his corrupted
study.

>4) I didn't like Joe. I think his admission to breaking the "rules" of
>AA was a clear indication from the writers that he is not entirely
>responsible himself, and is inclined to be a little impulsive rather than
>doing the mature thing. Not that that makes him a bad guy, but it makes

I like him; I don't see him as impulsive at all. Most people wouldn't be
able to hold their feelings can't be held in abeyance for an artificial time
limit to take effect.

All of the above, JMO, of course. ;-)

[Ceon Ramon]

In article <4m3k1o$c...@cegt201.bradley.edu>,

John Novak <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
>In <4m07kc$o...@tribune.concentric.net> Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:

>[Shep]

>>: I gots one, and only one question here.
>>: Did anyone happen to see if the people who were part of the
>>: disturbance were dominated by any one ethnicity in particular?
>

>>Given the nature of the complaints, I'm inclined to speculate that
>>ethnicity wasn't a factor -- besides, this was before Shep's racism
>>controversy.
>

>Huh?
>One of us is misunderstanding the other.
>In last Thursday's episode, were the people on the streets of any
>given ethnicity?

OK; you seem to be suggesting that they were African-American. Scott
appears to be saying that he doesn't believe ethnicity was a factor in
Shep's reaction. As for me, I can't remember. I certainly didn't notice
one way or another at the time and when I try to visualize the scene all I
can remember is that it was very dark and I could see the people only as
shapes.

I don't believe Shep is a racist and I don't believe he'd be more inclined
to beat up someone because he was Black. Ergo, I agree with Scott.

--Barbara

[Randy Turgeon]

jls wrote:
>
> Mark saw one of nurses (which one?) standing by and looked back and

Chuni

> motioned Doug to enter into the room. Doug had nothing to do with
> heading Mark into the room.

Randy Turgeon

[David Mix Barrington]

Joanne W (oss...@ties.k12.mn.us) wrote:
: I thought it was incredibly cruel of Kerry Weaver to humiliate Mark in front

: of everyone by playing the entire conversation for them -- she had obviously
: seen the tape already.

I agree that it's hard to imagine that she didn't but I suspect the
writers may have overlooked this. The assumption was supposed to be
that she rewound too far, but Kerry is Miss High-Tech...

: I, too, was starting to like Weaver...but not any

: more. Her "pain-in-the-ass-ness" has been, in the past, mostly out of her
: desire to improve the service in the ER, and I could respect that. But this
: incident was just being a pain in the ass for the sake of being a pain in
: the ass. It was just plain nasty.

Yeah, when you think about it it's a little extreme even for Kerry, and
I suspect the writers thought it was such a funny way to tie in the taping
and the Mark-gets-laid plot that they didn't think through Kerry's
motivation. But in her potential defense, we've already had a serious
problem in this ER this season from staff's unwarranted assumptions that
what they had to say was private (the brother and sister whose potentially
violent father overheard their unusual family situation from Carol (how's
that for avoiding spoilers, UK)). Just as we on the Internet should always
know that anything we write could reflect back on us and our institution,
perhaps Kerry meant to show that nothing is private in the ER. Though if
so, I agree her methods were a little uncalled for...

A wonderful scene, though -- I'd cut the writers some slack...

Dave MB

[Karen M. Codella]

On 30 Apr 1996, Ceon Ramon wrote:

> In article <4m3k77$d...@cegt201.bradley.edu>,

> John Novak <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
> >In <4m0mlv$5...@nntp4.u.washington.edu> ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) writes:
> >

> >>That hadn't occurred to me. Whose idea was it to step into the room?
> >>On the other hand, Doug couldn't have know what Mark was going to tell
> >>him.
> >

> >I don't know that Doug purposefully recorded it, but I wouldn't be
> >surprised if he realized later it had been taped, and made sure it got
> >played.
>
>
> I really don't believe that Doug would be that malicious. He is, after
> all, Mark's friend, and that was a pretty humiliating experience for Mark.
>
> --Barbara
>
>
>
>

I don't think that Doug even thought that it was being recorded. I don't
think he would have done it to Mark. Doug has done some pretty bad
stuff, but Mark is his friend.

[Karen M. Codella]

> : Hicks also takes a minute to
> : inform Carter about the hospital's new "pyramid system" for first-year
> : residents: they get ranked, from top to bottom, and the lowest third of
> : them get culled at the end of that first year.
>
> I didn't catch this line exactly -- were they to be culled entirely or
> were they to repeat the first year?
> Dave MB
>
>
I could swear that Hicks said that the bottom third would be gone entirely.
That's what I remember.

Karen

[Ceon Ramon]

In article <Pine.ULT.3.91.960430...@orion.naz.edu>,

Karen M. Codella <kmco...@naz.edu> wrote:
>On 30 Apr 1996, Ceon Ramon wrote:
>> I really don't believe that Doug would be that malicious. He is, after
>> all, Mark's friend, and that was a pretty humiliating experience for Mark.

>I don't think that Doug even thought that it was being recorded. I don't

>think he would have done it to Mark. Doug has done some pretty bad
>stuff, but Mark is his friend.

What, exactly, has Doug ever done that was really bad? Granted, he seems
to have trouble reconciling his emotional and libidinous needs, and in the
relationship with Diana Leeds he disappointed and hurt her (and her son),
but aside from that, what has he done that's so reprehensible?

Remember that we don't actually *know* what went on between Doug and
Carol, and that Carol has plenty of her own personality problems.

Doug has a number of flaws, but they don't interfere with his work [1],
and they also don't seem to be any more serious than those of any other
character.

I speak as one who likes Doug Ross the character, rather than as a fan of
George Clooney the actor so I don't have any kind of personal agenda here.

[1] Please let's not rehash the missed sarcoma on the X-ray, as I think
it's been firmly established that in reality this would have been the
responsibility of the radiologist.

--Barbara

[Lynn Riley]

Karen M. Codella wrote:
> > : Hicks also takes a minute to
> > : inform Carter about the hospital's new "pyramid system" for first-year
> > : residents: they get ranked, from top to bottom, and the lowest third of
> > : them get culled at the end of that first year.
> > I didn't catch this line exactly -- were they to be culled entirely or
> > were they to repeat the first year?

> I could swear that Hicks said that the bottom third would be gone entirely.
> That's what I remember.
>

Yes, she said "Gone entirely" and repeated that at Carter's request I think.

But I'm confused: I thought that this being his 2nd year in the ER, he was a
2nd year resident/1st year surgical sub-intern. Why was he worried - because
of the 1st year surgical part?

Can someone set me straight on this??

Lynn

[John Novak]

In <4m5cb3$k...@nntp4.u.washington.edu> ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) writes:

>>In last Thursday's episode, were the people on the streets of any
>>given ethnicity?

>OK; you seem to be suggesting that they were African-American.

That's my question.
I didn't notice one way or the other.

>Shep's reaction. As for me, I can't remember. I certainly didn't notice
>one way or another at the time and when I try to visualize the scene all I
>can remember is that it was very dark and I could see the people only as
>shapes.

Same here.

>I don't believe Shep is a racist and I don't believe he'd be more inclined
>to beat up someone because he was Black. Ergo, I agree with Scott.

I don't think he's racist either.

[John Novak]

In <nancy-dooley....@uiowa.edu> nancy-...@uiowa.edu (Nancy Dooley) writes:

>Peter comes around because he's an opportunist. He doesn't like being
>ostracized; Hicks made him see the writing on the wall - remember, "Reap what
>you sow?" I think he thinks it's more important to make nice with Hicks,
>because she's in a power position and likely to stay in it, than with
>Vucelich, who may not be there after the sh*t hits the fan on his corrupted
>study.

I disagree entirely.

On a professional level, yes I'm sure Peter doesn't like being
ostracized. He's a surgeon. He's not getting to, er, surge. On a
social level, I doubt he particularly cares.

Regardless, though, Hicks is not the end-all and be-all of his
surgical rotation world. Other surgeons are doing this to him, not
Hicks-- at least not that we've seen any indications. We've also seen
Hicks give strong indications that she'd like to see him shut up, stop
rocking the boat and play ball.

You think his making good on his threats to Vucelich is going to
_improve_ his reputation with the other surgeons? I don't.

[B. Boren]

On Tue, 30 Apr 1996, Lynn Riley wrote:

> But I'm confused: I thought that this being his 2nd year in the ER, he was a
> 2nd year resident/1st year surgical sub-intern. Why was he worried - because
> of the 1st year surgical part?
>
> Can someone set me straight on this??

The "Sub-Internship" is done in the 4th year of Med
School. The name of it refers to the fact that it
immediately precedes Residency. The first year of
residency is sometimes referred to as "internship",
thus the year before it is "sub-internship".

Ben

--
BRANNON "BEN" BOREN
bran...@u.washington.edu
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~brannonb/
University of Washington School of Public
Health and Community Medicine

[Monica J. Turk]

In article <nancy-dooley....@uiowa.edu>, nancy-...@uiowa.edu
(Nancy Dooley) wrote:

> O.k., I'm a Harper fan...but you're much too forgiving to Carter, and
much too
> judgmental on Harper. Carter's actions understandable? I don't believe we
> can excuse most of his behavior this season. He seems a will-o-the-wisp,
> blowing this way and that in the wind, depending on who can do him a favor
> at the moment, or what is in his best interest at the time. Harper has no
> ambition? What have you seen that says that? We haven't seen a lot of
her in
> action, but during her first season, she seemed very eager to learn and
> advance. She appears to have appropriate medical knowledge for her level
> of education - after all, she's the one who caught the problem that Carter
> took credit for. She hasn't been a central-enough character for you to make
> the judgment that she hasn't any ambition. "Sleeping with as many men...?"
> How so? We know in her earlier school days, she slept once with Dale. We
> know that after a few dates with Carter, she slept with him. We know
that she
> slept once with Doug as an empathy/sympathy thing. 3 men? In how many
years?
> You're too harsh.

OK,maybe I am too harsh on Harper, but I don't think I was harsh enough on
the writers. I think Harper was their most serious mistake... they can't
give her enough time to develop her character (Shep is more developed than
she), and you're right, we haven't really seen whether or not she can make
it. Of course, in her first couple episodes she was virtually in tears
over how difficult the job was, but since then her most serious problem
has been Carter, not work. She's obviously not stupid, and has the
capacity to be a good physician, but we don't see her scrambling for
procedures the way Carter did in his first year. Instead, we get a whole
lot of her sex life and very little of her struggles at work. It's not so
much HER I have a quibble with, as the way she is used by the writers.

> Peter comes around because he's an opportunist. He doesn't like being
> ostracized; Hicks made him see the writing on the wall - remember, "Reap what
> you sow?" I think he thinks it's more important to make nice with Hicks,
> because she's in a power position and likely to stay in it, than with
> Vucelich, who may not be there after the sh*t hits the fan on his corrupted
> study.

Did you forget that Hicks specifically told him *not* to rock the boat, a
couple episodes ago? She may gain respect for him, but I don't think he's
exactly "making nice" by turning in Vucelich against Hicks' advice.

> >4) I didn't like Joe. I think his admission to breaking the "rules" of
> >AA was a clear indication from the writers that he is not entirely
> >responsible himself, and is inclined to be a little impulsive rather than
> >doing the mature thing. Not that that makes him a bad guy, but it makes
>
> I like him; I don't see him as impulsive at all. Most people wouldn't be
> able to hold their feelings can't be held in abeyance for an artificial time
> limit to take effect.

True, but he also can't really know what he's getting into with Chloe like
Susan does, now can he?

[Ceon Ramon]

In article <4m6afm$h...@cegt201.bradley.edu>,

John Novak <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
>Hicks give strong indications that she'd like to see him shut up, stop
>rocking the boat and play ball.

This is something that's been bugging the hell out of me for the past
three or four episodes. Hicks initially made it perfectly plain to Benton
that he better *not* do this, and then in the next two episodes seemed to
be expressing contempt for him for not doing it. It seems to me as if she
herself is ambivalent about what's the right thing to do.

--Barbara

[Dana Akanova]

On Tue, 30 Apr 1996 18:43:39 -0700, "B. Boren"
<bran...@u.washington.edu> wrote:

>The "Sub-Internship" is done in the 4th year of Med
>School. The name of it refers to the fact that it
>immediately precedes Residency. The first year of
>residency is sometimes referred to as "internship",
>thus the year before it is "sub-internship".

Actually, not the whole 4th year but rather one rotation (2 months
max) is called sub-I (it is supposed to be in the same field as the
residency).

[Chris Leach]

tm...@grove.iup.edu (LA CAIMAN) wrote:

<SNIP>
>-Oh, and I could just loved that she put her to bed with "Blackbird." A side
>note: Can someone please tell me which Beatles' album this is on? I wanna copy
>of it now. :)

It is from the White Album (you know, the one Charlie Manson listened
to all the time. . . .). One thing I noticed about Chloe's version
that no one has mentioned is that she got the lyrics wrong. It's not
"You were only waiting for this moment to arrive", it's "...to ARISE."
Picky, I know. . . .

CL

[LA CAIMAN]

In article <4lugna$b...@cegt201.bradley.edu>, j...@cegt201.bradley.edu (John Novak) writes:

>In <4lpqvd$g...@tribune.concentric.net> Sco...@cris.com (Scott Hollifield) writes:
>
>I gots one, and only one question here.
>Did anyone happen to see if the people who were part of the
>disturbance were dominated by any one ethnicity in particular?
>

>I didn't think to look until much later.
>

>John S. Novak, III j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
>http://cegt201.bradley.edu/~jsn/index.html
>The Humblest Man on the Net

Well, if you were implying that it was a racist problem, I sincerely hope that
you weren't, because none of the people were African-American as far as I could
see. I personally think the writers were trying to focus more on Shep's lashing
out at Carol than they were on the color of the rioters' skins.

At least, I hope so.

Coleen
PS- I cringed at the LBJ comment too, and I'm 21. But I'm a geek for trivia
like that, so you'll have that...

[LA CAIMAN]

In article <4lupjp$d...@nntp4.u.washington.edu>, ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) writes:
>In article <4lto75$6...@tribune.concentric.net>,
>Scott Hollifield <Sco...@cris.com> wrote:
>>Barbara Hlavin (ce...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
>>: [Scott]

>>: >>> Many weeks ago, someone posted a rumor to the Internet to the
>>: >>>effect that Carol's relationship with Shep would turn tragic due to Shep

>>: >>>revealing himself as an abusive type. At the time, I didn't believe it,
>>
>>: And my reaction was that I could in fact find it credible that he would at
>>: some future time lash out at her, perhaps out of frustration and without
>>: intending to hurt her.
>>
>>Well, at least you didn't say 'I told you so'. :)
>
>
>OK, you son of a gun :-); here's my prediction.
>
>
>Shep will present Carol with an ultimatum. He will tell her that he
>expects her to marry him, quit her job, move to some rural area (Montana,
>Idaho), and raise children. As a sop to her education, he may suggest
>that she become a part-time teacher or pharmacist in whatever small town
>he's picked out.
>
>Carol will say no. Shep will go berserk. What form this berserk-ness
>will take I don't know. I don't really expect that he'll be physically
>brutal to her, but given the background of frustration and incipient rage
>we've seen building in him I wouldn't rule it out, either. If it does
>takes a physical form, I'd guess it would be something like a violent
>back-handed whack that will knock Carol off her feet and that will
>astonish and horrify both of them.
>
>Then Shep will run off to Montana or Idaho and uh join a militia.
>
>Editorial: Shep has a shallow, one-dimesional perception of life, while
>Carol is deeply intuitive and full of conflict. Please note that I am not
>xcriticizing or condemning Shep; I am not anti-Shep. This is only my
>personal speculation based on observation of his character.
>
>Shep will present this to Carol as if it were something they had agreed
>upon, oblivous, as usual, to her deeper feelings and reservations about
>their relationship. This is not entirely his fault as Carol is reluctant
>or maybe even incapable of sharing her real feelings. This may be
>because she is afraid that revealing them is dangerous to her safety.
>
>Carol has the ability to see beneath the skin of of people, and sometimes,
>as in the case of Shep, this makes her feel a kind of commitment to the
>person. She can see where they are frightened and hurt and vulnerable,
>and feels a consequent obligation to help them. This is a great curse,
>especially as she is uncertain about where to establish limits.
>
>So, Scott. I am willing to bet you a four-course dinner cooked by me and
>followed by a late ramble through the micro-breweries of Fremont with a
>final visit to the Troll under the bridge that this is almost exactly what
>will happen between Shep and Carol.
>
>Deal?
>
>--Barbaara
>
It's times like this where I thank the Internet gods for my free access.

Coleen ;)

[Scott Hollifield]

Ceon Ramon (ce...@u.washington.edu) wrote:

And here I am with yet a third interpretation.

Contrary to John's perspective, I really haven't seen Hicks encouraging
Peter to come forward with his evidence; indeed, as you say, she's made it
very clear that she thinks it would be unwise. Not just because Peter's
evidence is perhaps less than airtight, but because Vucelich is a
lucrative and well-respected part of the hospital and because Peter hasn't
learned how to be a "team player" yet (and thus, the implication that he
hasn't yet earned the right to challenge Vucelich).

Personally, I think this is an interesting role for her to play because
it's something of a contrast to Hicks' no-nonsense attitude; ordinarily,
we'd expect someone in the mentor position that Hicks occupies to approve
of Peter coming forward and doing The Right Thing. But she has a bigger
picture to consider, for herself and for Peter.

So in other words, I think Hicks is on the record as saying that IF Peter
does come forward, he'd damn well better have his i's dotted and t's
crossed. But I think she'd rather him not make waves at all.

[Nancy Dooley]

In article <mturk-30049...@10.0.2.15> mt...@reed.edu (Monica J. Turk) writes:
>From: mt...@reed.edu (Monica J. Turk)
>Subject: Re: ER: "Fire in the Belly" Summary/Review

>Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 20:16:40 -0700

>OK,maybe I am too harsh on Harper, but I don't think I was harsh enough on
>the writers. I think Harper was their most serious mistake... they can't

I agree. I wish they had given her more time.

>> Peter comes around because he's an opportunist. He doesn't like being
>> ostracized; Hicks made him see the writing on the wall - remember, "Reap what
>> you sow?" I think he thinks it's more important to make nice with Hicks,
>> because she's in a power position and likely to stay in it, than with
>> Vucelich, who may not be there after the sh*t hits the fan on his corrupted
>> study.

>Did you forget that Hicks specifically told him *not* to rock the boat, a
>couple episodes ago? She may gain respect for him, but I don't think he's
>exactly "making nice" by turning in Vucelich against Hicks' advice.

I didn't forget; I read her warning as IF he's going to rock the boat, he
better be prepared for the consequences. I thought she was trying to force
him to make a decision - whether or not she personally would have made the
same one wasn't as important to her as the fact that Peter go ahead and make
the decision on his own.

>> I like him; I don't see him as impulsive at all. Most people wouldn't be

>> able to hold their feelings in abeyance for an artificial time limit to
take effect.

>True, but he also can't really know what he's getting into with Chloe like
>Susan does, now can he?

No, we can't. I hope they develop his character more next season.

[Nancy Dooley]

In article <4m6jgn$i...@nntp4.u.washington.edu> ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) writes:
>From: ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon)

>Subject: Re: ER: "Fire in the Belly" Summary/Review

>Date: 1 May 1996 02:49:59 GMT

>In article <4m6afm$h...@cegt201.bradley.edu>,

>John Novak <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
>>Hicks give strong indications that she'd like to see him shut up, stop
>>rocking the boat and play ball.

>This is something that's been bugging the hell out of me for the past
>three or four episodes. Hicks initially made it perfectly plain to Benton
>that he better *not* do this, and then in the next two episodes seemed to
>be expressing contempt for him for not doing it. It seems to me as if she
>herself is ambivalent about what's the right thing to do.

>--Barbara

I interpret Dr. Hicks' interaction with Benton on the flawed study, as more in
the line of "put up or shut up."

In other words, she wants Benton to quit whining about V.'s flawed study; he
should either drop it or report it.

[Scott Hollifield]

Chris Leach (7670...@compuserve.com) wrote:
: It is from the White Album (you know, the one Charlie Manson listened

: to all the time. . . .). One thing I noticed about Chloe's version
: that no one has mentioned is that she got the lyrics wrong. It's not
: "You were only waiting for this moment to arrive", it's "...to ARISE."
: Picky, I know. . . .

To be fair, this is not just "Chloe's version"; Susan sang it that way as
well, just after baby Susie was born.

[Denise]

"Karen M. Codella" <kmco...@naz.edu> wrote:
>> : Hicks also takes a minute to
>> : inform Carter about the hospital's new "pyramid system" for first-year
>> : residents: they get ranked, from top to bottom, and the lowest third of
>> : them get culled at the end of that first year.
>>
>> I didn't catch this line exactly -- were they to be culled entirely or
>> were they to repeat the first year?

>> Dave MB

>>
>>
>I could swear that Hicks said that the bottom third would be gone entirely.
>That's what I remember.
>

>Karen
My memory was that she said they would not be "asked back".
Denise

[Thomas Lyons]

Ceon Ramon (ce...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: In article <4m6afm$h...@cegt201.bradley.edu>,

: John Novak <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
: >Hicks give strong indications that she'd like to see him shut up, stop
: >rocking the boat and play ball.
:
: This is something that's been bugging the hell out of me for the past
: three or four episodes. Hicks initially made it perfectly plain to Benton
: that he better *not* do this, and then in the next two episodes seemed to
: be expressing contempt for him for not doing it. It seems to me as if she
: herself is ambivalent about what's the right thing to do.
:
: --Barbara
:
:

I think her original message to Benton was to put up or shut up -- stop
whining about Vucelich if he wasn't going to have the guts to prove it
on the record. True, she didn't want him to come forward because that
really isn't the best thing for Benton. He will probably lose his job.
But her contempt for him in recent episodes *wasn't* about
Vucelich it was about 1)squealing on Doug and being so judgmental about the
whole thing. and 2)improperly treating the appendicitis patient.
--Delia

[Lynn Riley]

Scott Hollifield wrote:

> Ceon Ramon (ce...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
> : This is something that's been bugging the hell out of me for the past
> : three or four episodes. Hicks initially made it perfectly plain to Benton
> : that he better *not* do this, and then in the next two episodes seemed to
> : be expressing contempt for him for not doing it. It seems to me as if she
> : herself is ambivalent about what's the right thing to do.

> Contrary to John's perspective, I really haven't seen Hicks encouraging
> Peter to come forward with his evidence; indeed, as you say, she's made it
> very clear that she thinks it would be unwise. Not just because Peter's
> evidence is perhaps less than airtight, but because Vucelich is a
> lucrative and well-respected part of the hospital and because Peter hasn't
> learned how to be a "team player" yet (and thus, the implication that he
> hasn't yet earned the right to challenge Vucelich).
> Personally, I think this is an interesting role for her to play because
> it's something of a contrast to Hicks' no-nonsense attitude; ordinarily,
> we'd expect someone in the mentor position that Hicks occupies to approve
> of Peter coming forward and doing The Right Thing. But she has a bigger

> picture to consider, for herself and for Peter. [snip] But I think

> she'd rather him not make waves at all.

In the 4/18 episode, Peter turned over his Vucelich data to Hicks, right?
Or someone else? (I'm not taping the episodes nor have I been saving Scott's
eloquent and informative summaries.) I'm wondering how the writers are going
to develop this plotline in terms of Hicks' support or non-support. Why
wouldn't she want to see justice done towards someone who is perpetrating a
fraud? (I know V.'s innocent until proven guilty, but for the sake of this
plotline, let's say that Peter is right in this charge against Vucelich.)
It's probably because of the afore mentioned "bigger picture." It's
easier to live/work in peace than to upset the status quo.

This is not to say that she wasn't correct in advising him to have his ducks in
line before he makes a charge against Vucelich. I wish we knew more about Hicks
- I think the writers could spring something really interesting about why she
gave Peter the advice that she did. Then again, I'm always searching for the
interesting angle when it comes to my favorite dramas. Maybe her actions should
be taken at face value(?).

Lynn

[John Novak]

In <4m6jgn$i...@nntp4.u.washington.edu> ce...@u.washington.edu (Ceon Ramon) writes:

>This is something that's been bugging the hell out of me for the past
>three or four episodes. Hicks initially made it perfectly plain to Benton
>that he better *not* do this, and then in the next two episodes seemed to
>be expressing contempt for him for not doing it. It seems to me as if she
>herself is ambivalent about what's the right thing to do.

I think what she'd like first and foremost is to see Peter shut up
about it and maybe even apologize to Vucelich. A secondary concern
is that she knows Peter well enough to know that Peter hasn't given up
thinking about it, so she _does_ have some contempt for his just
sitting around feeling sorry for himself and grousing about the
situation.
--

[John Novak]

In <1996May1.0...@news.iup.edu> tm...@grove.iup.edu (LA CAIMAN) writes:

>Well, if you were implying that it was a racist problem, I sincerely hope that
>you weren't, because none of the people were African-American as far as I could
>see. I personally think the writers were trying to focus more on Shep's lashing
>out at Carol than they were on the color of the rioters' skins.

Once again, I merely asked a question.
Shep's racism or not-racism has been a thread in this group for some
time. This is a major incident for Shep.

Does it not make sense to look at how this ties into the past threads
of conversation?

>PS- I cringed at the LBJ comment too, and I'm 21. But I'm a geek for trivia
>like that, so you'll have that...

LBJ is trivia?
Eek.

[Lynn Riley]

Monica J. Turk wrote:
> In article <nancy-dooley....@uiowa.edu>, nancy-...@uiowa.edu
> (Nancy Dooley) wrote:
>> O.k., I'm a Harper fan...but you're much too forgiving to Carter, and much
>> too judgmental on Harper. Carter's actions understandable? I don't believe
>> we can excuse most of his behavior this season. He seems a will-o-the-wisp,
>> blowing this way and that in the wind, depending on who can do him a favor
>> at the moment, or what is in his best interest at the time. Harper has no
>> ambition? What have you seen that says that? We haven't seen a lot of her
>> in action, but during her first season, she seemed very eager to learn and
>> advance. She appears to have appropriate medical knowledge for her level
>> of education - after all, she's the one who caught the problem that Carter
>> took credit for. She hasn't been a central-enough character for you to make
>> the judgment that she hasn't any ambition. "Sleeping with as many men...?"
>> How so? We know in her earlier school days, she slept once with Dale. We
>> know that after a few dates with Carter, she slept with him. We know that
>> she slept once with Doug as an empathy/sympathy thing. 3 men? In how many
>> years? You're too harsh.
>

*OK,maybe I am too harsh on Harper, but I don't think I was harsh enough on
*the writers. I think Harper was their most serious mistake... they can't
*give her enough time to develop her character (Shep is more developed than
*she),

...I say the writers just flat out goofed - they brought her in to replace
Deb as a competitor for Carter and to give him a personal life, and Harper
eventually became a 1-dimensional plot convenience after several interesting
episodes. And now it's too late, because this character will not be back
as next season, according to several articles. I'm disappointed in the way
she turned out. They have 2 or 3 more episodes to surprise me, but I'm not
holding my breath.

*and you're right, we haven't really seen whether or not she can make
*it. Of course, in her first couple episodes she was virtually in tears
*over how difficult the job was, but since then her most serious problem
*has been Carter, not work. She's obviously not stupid, and has the

...She *definately* not stupid. I remember in her 1st appearance, she
said she was 21 or 22, implying that she was a prodigy. At first Carter
seemed intimidated and took it like a threat/challenge, like with Deb.
Then they got romantically involved and we saw less of Harper "at work"
as a med student (except the episode with Doug and the Asian boy with
AIDS). She just became, well, just kind of "there."

*capacity to be a good physician, but we don't see her scrambling for
*procedures the way Carter did in his first year. Instead, we get a whole
*lot of her sex life and very little of her struggles at work. It's not so
*much HER I have a quibble with, as the way she is used by the writers.

Another lost opportunity for the writers. All they have to do is call me,
and I'd give them a plot development outline or two :>)

Lynn