Terminator 2 censored.....
Steve Kerridge
"edited for bad language and excessive violence...." This for a film shown
after the watershed, and that only has a 15 rating......
===========================================================================
Steve Kerridge | St...@mansell.demon.co.uk | "There's only one way of life,
| | and that's your own........"
===========================================================================
Steve M Lake
Did you honestly expect the BBC to -not- edit the film to hell. I
mean, the policy seems to be: if there's a film and it's rated higher
than PG, cut it. If it's rated PG or lower, cut it anyway.
I dread to think what ITV are going to make of Basic Instinct later in
the year.... It'll probably only be 10 minutes long!
Steve
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Dave Chapman
> I suppose it was inevitable, but to quote the Radio Times, Terminator 2 is
> "edited for bad language and excessive violence...." This for a film shown
> after the watershed, and that only has a 15 rating......
You must admit, it was a very dodgy 15 rating, though.
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David Wells
>I suppose it was inevitable, but to quote the Radio Times, Terminator 2 is
>"edited for bad language and excessive violence...." This for a film shown
>after the watershed, and that only has a 15 rating......
But was it edited by the BBC? If so, then this is utterly deplorable. The
RT doesn't say, and it seems more likely that the Beeb has simply
acquired a print of T2 which has already been butchered for US TV
(especially as it's been edited for cusswords, which UK TV doesn't usually
worry too much about). US TV versions, apparently, are much cheaper than
uncut prints. For a relatively recent blockbuster like T2, this is likely
to be a significant factor for the new accountancy-led BBC.
If this is the case, we should really be complaining about the government's
lamentable (and mainly inherited from You Know Who) broadcasting policy,
designed to allow "more freedom of choice". <insert predictable rant here>.
This forces the BBC and ITV to show blockbuster movies so they can compete
(with each other and with the satellite stations). At the same time, it
starves them of the cash required to buy proper versions of those
blockbusters. "With hilarious results", as they say - except for those
people who actually want to watch films on TV as part exchange for their
license money.
Dave
James Kew
but I don't remember there being many to start with.
3 cuts I spotted:
- The scene in Sarah Connor's cell where the orderly licks her face.
- Arnie firing teargas canisters at police officers in the CyberDyne foyer.
- Shortened credits, with a glaring jump in the music...
___________________________________________________________________________
James Kew "I can see it all so clearly, answer me
Imperial College, London sincerely... Was it a dream, a lie?"
Laurie Borthwick
>I suppose it was inevitable, but to quote the Radio Times, Terminator 2 is
>"edited for bad language and excessive violence...." This for a film shown
>after the watershed, and that only has a 15 rating......
I should have known better than to expect an uncut version, but
after the "countdown adverts" I was a little annoyed.
Thats what happens when you don't read the Radio Times ......
I still think it is Silicon Graphics finest hour!
Laurie
--
_____________________________________________________________________________
Laurie Borthwick, Computer Manager, Aero Eng, University of Glasgow, Scotland
_____________________________________________________________________________
Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats
: Did you honestly expect the BBC to -not- edit the film to hell. I
: mean, the policy seems to be: if there's a film and it's rated higher
: than PG, cut it. If it's rated PG or lower, cut it anyway.
It's a shame they didn't cut the ending, what a load of old sentimental tripe.
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Dave Parry
: da...@cheers.demon.co.uk (Dave Chapman) writes:
: >Steve Kerridge (St...@mansell.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: >> I suppose it was inevitable, but to quote the Radio Times, Terminator 2 is
: >> "edited for bad language and excessive violence...." This for a film shown
: >> after the watershed, and that only has a 15 rating......
: >You must admit, it was a very dodgy 15 rating, though.
: I think you can get an 18 rated version, but only on laserdisc, and it's
: also widescreen.
: Graham
Sky Movies show what I assume is the 18 rated version i.e. stronger
than both UK video and cinema releases.
Dave
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------------------------------------------------
David Jenkins
(Laurie Borthwick) writes:
> I still think it is Silicon Graphics finest hour!
>
Graphics
provided the hardware.
____________________________________________________________________________
"You could drop this guy off at the artic wearing bikini underwear
without his tooth brush and tomorrow afternoon he's gonna show up
at your poolside with a million dollar smile and a fistfull of pecos.
This guy's a professional."
____________________________________________________________________________
All opinions expressed are purely personal and do not reflect the opinions or
policies of Smallworld Systems Ltd., Cambridge, United Kingdom.
____________________________________________________________________________
Tony McAlinden
: From: St...@mansell.demon.co.uk (Steve Kerridge)
: >I suppose it was inevitable, but to quote the Radio Times, Terminator 2 is
: >"edited for bad language and excessive violence...." This for a film shown
: >after the watershed, and that only has a 15 rating......
: But was it edited by the BBC? If so, then this is utterly deplorable. The
: RT doesn't say, and it seems more likely that the Beeb has simply
: acquired a print of T2 which has already been butchered for US TV
: (especially as it's been edited for cusswords, which UK TV doesn't usually
: worry too much about). US TV versions, apparently, are much cheaper than
: uncut prints. For a relatively recent blockbuster like T2, this is likely
: to be a significant factor for the new accountancy-led BBC.
The print must have been edited by the BBC - technically, the quality was fine,
a nice sparkling film transfer to PAL and good stereo soundtrack. I've so far
only watched the first 45 minutes of my recording, and was quite amazed by the
blatency of some of the cuts. Here they are (spoilers ahead) :
1. Swearing. No troublesome effwords, but "shit" and "dick" left in. Just as
well, really, it *was* after 9 p.m.
Methinks Cameron might have made different versions for this purpose. In
Sarah's videotaped interview with the head psychiatrist, the monitor was
viewed in a longer shot - so that you couldn't see lipsync when they were
just silencing words.
Although I'm against editing for language ( and after Billy Connolly's free
reign this was incredibly two-faced of the BBC ), I much prefer silencing
to replacement with words like "frigging", "stinking" and "funsters".
2. The bar fight. Over a bit quick, wasn't it? That's to say - no impalement
on pool tables, and quite a lot of knife combat missing. And of course,
the guy thrown onto the stove just grazed across it in the cinema version.
Right.
3. In the shopping mall confrontation, the bit where the security guard gets
peppered with bullets by the T1000 is completely missed out.
4. You don't see the T1000 pull the knife out of John's foster father's head,
complete with sound of squashing melons.
And all this in 45 minutes. Having just payed my first licence fee, I must
admit feeling a bit cheated. But at a starting time of 9.10 p.m., in the
middle of the school holidays, what could we expect? Next time, I want this
film at 10.00 on BBC2.... Uncut.
"Jings, look at that pig" ;-)
Tony.
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G Bell
>Steve Kerridge (St...@mansell.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>> I suppose it was inevitable, but to quote the Radio Times, Terminator 2 is
>> "edited for bad language and excessive violence...." This for a film shown
>> after the watershed, and that only has a 15 rating......
>You must admit, it was a very dodgy 15 rating, though.
I think you can get an 18 rated version, but only on laserdisc, and it's
also widescreen.
Graham
Ian Palmer
: Did anyone notice the cuts? I didn't notice any dubbing over profanities,
: but I don't remember there being many to start with.
: 3 cuts I spotted:
: - The scene in Sarah Connor's cell where the orderly licks her face.
: - Arnie firing teargas canisters at police officers in the CyberDyne foyer.
: - Shortened credits, with a glaring jump in the music...
Gosh you only noticed three, and no cuts for profanities.
Well cuts for profanities were there, although often the volume was
just dropped down so you couldn't hear them (for example the final
seconds of Sarah Conner watching a taped interview with her where she
starts screaming about the neuclar war - also there was a 'fucking'
cut from the middle of that scene. Volume drops are the sort of ediing
you expect from the technically innept ITV, not from the BBC, they
usually try very hard to avoid this, which can be difficult cutting a
chunk out of a scene with background music, et al.
Scenes cut include the removing of the spike from the step fathers
head. Part of the scene with the spike through the security guards eye
(although it seems odd that they showd part of both of these but
chickened out fully - the full bit is no worse than the part).
Sarah hitting the orderly around the head was cut to a white screen,
in the full version you see blood fly.
There were also many minor cuts, too many to remember.
It is a shame the BBC didn't try to get the full version (which
wouldn't have needed any more cuts than the version they showed) as
the story makes much more sence (like how John Connor knew which Sarah
was the real one - the T1000, after reforming from the freezing starts
becoming faulty and starts merging with things he touches (for example
he touches a hand rail and his hand merges with it), in the scene with
two Sarahs John looks down and sees the T1000 Sarah's feet merging
with the metal floor) and how the Terminator (the Arnie one) managed to
learn during the latter half of the film (about a 10 minute scene is
cut where they open his head and take out the chip to switch it into
read/write mode as opposed to read only, and Sarah almost destroys the
chip - this scene cost a lot to shoot because they had to build two
identical sets back to back to give the impression of a mirror image
in a mirror and use Linda Hamilton's twin sister). The full version
also contains a second (or should that be first) dream sequence in
which whatsisname (the person sent back in the first film, can't for
the life of me remember his name) appears and warns Sarah of the
danger, which is why she is so desperate to escape.
It is a real shame this version will only be available in NTSC lasar
disc :-(
Ian
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Ian Collier
> - this scene cost a lot to shoot because they had to build two
>identical sets back to back to give the impression of a mirror image
>in a mirror and use Linda Hamilton's twin sister
Forgive my curiosity (I've never watched T2, cut or uncut), but surely
they could have given the impression of a mirror image by using a mirror.
Wouldn't that have been more realistic? :-)
Ian Collier
Ian.C...@comlab.ox.ac.uk | i...@ecs.ox.ac.uk
S S Sturrock
!In article <34hcve$k...@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>, i...@doc.ic.ac.uk (Ian Palmer) wrote:
!> - this scene cost a lot to shoot because they had to build two
!>identical sets back to back to give the impression of a mirror image
!>in a mirror and use Linda Hamilton's twin sister
!
!Forgive my curiosity (I've never watched T2, cut or uncut), but surely
!they could have given the impression of a mirror image by using a mirror.
!Wouldn't that have been more realistic? :-)
But then you would not be able to do the open head bit, plus of course you
would have seen the camera.
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(}:-( -- Mr Sturrock | University of Edinburgh, Scotland,
/' | Untied Kingdom (Split now!) :-)
James Kew
Ian Palmer, i...@doc.ic.ac.uk writes:
> Well cuts for profanities were there, although often the volume was
> just dropped down so you couldn't hear them. [...]
> Volume drops are the sort of editing
> you expect from the technically innept ITV, not from the BBC
Hmmm... actually I'd expect ITV to dub over the top with something
totally ridiculous lifted from somewhere else in the film...
> Scenes cut include the removing of the spike from the step fathers
> head. Part of the scene with the spike through the security guards eye
> (although it seems odd that they showd part of both of these but
> chickened out fully - the full bit is no worse than the part).
> Sarah hitting the orderly around the head was cut to a white screen,
> in the full version you see blood fly.
OK, I failed to notice these. Still, compared to the way that most of the
"premieres" on ITV have been butchered, I was fairly impressed by T2; most
of the cuts were reasonably unobtrusive and didn't spoil my enjoyment of
the film. For somebody like me who doesn't have an encyclopaedic knowledge
of the film, cutting short the more gory moments is less offensive than
chopping them out totally.
Of course, I' prefer it totally uncut and in widescreen; ah well...
[The 'extended' version:]
> how the Terminator (the Arnie one) managed to
> learn during the latter half of the film (about a 10 minute scene is
> cut where they open his head and take out the chip to switch it into
> read/write mode as opposed to read only, and Sarah almost destroys the
> chip - this scene cost a lot to shoot because they had to build two
> identical sets back to back to give the impression of a mirror image
> in a mirror and use Linda Hamilton's twin sister).
Eh? I've read that sentence 4 times and still can't make sense of it.
Why the twin? Why reverse the set? Can't you just flip the film
mechanically or digitally? What's so complicated about the scene?
> The full version
> also contains a second (or should that be first) dream sequence in
> which whatsisname (the person sent back in the first film, can't for
> the life of me remember his name) appears and warns Sarah of the
> danger, which is why she is so desperate to escape.
That'd be Reese, wouldn't it?
Tony McAlinden
: 3 cuts I spotted:
[ 2 others deleted ]
: - Shortened credits, with a glaring jump in the music...
To my knowledge, this is the first time that the BBC have done this. The
practice of "Cast Only" credits was started at ITV, and usually identifies
a TV version of a film. But ITV are not above doing it themselves - the
most recent screening of "Aliens" appeared to a cinema print which they
had edited themselves - both for profanities, and those equally offensive
credits for the talentless film crew. ;-)
The BBC, on the other hand, used to show credits in full - and have in the
last few years adopted the compromise of speeding them up - so that only
those stupid enough to want to read them get a chance to try out their
video's slow motion facilities.
What's that Points of View email again?
G Bell
>[The 'extended' version:]
>> how the Terminator (the Arnie one) managed to
>> learn during the latter half of the film (about a 10 minute scene is
>> cut where they open his head and take out the chip to switch it into
>> read/write mode as opposed to read only, and Sarah almost destroys the
>> chip - this scene cost a lot to shoot because they had to build two
>> identical sets back to back to give the impression of a mirror image
>> in a mirror and use Linda Hamilton's twin sister).
>Eh? I've read that sentence 4 times and still can't make sense of it.
>Why the twin? Why reverse the set? Can't you just flip the film
>mechanically or digitally? What's so complicated about the scene?
Confusing isn't it, I think there's a bit missing in this sentence?
Because Linda's sister is in the scene where the T1000 is trying to coax
John into coming to him in the steelworks at the end of the movie with
the real Sarah Connor comes up behind it and blasts it, followed by the
finger shake, or wiggle or whatever your preference?
>> The full version
>> also contains a second (or should that be first) dream sequence in
>> which whatsisname (the person sent back in the first film, can't for
>> the life of me remember his name) appears and warns Sarah of the
>> danger, which is why she is so desperate to escape.
>That'd be Reese, wouldn't it?
The Penguin book containing the complete script has stills from this
scene and from the other cut scenes, plus storyboards for the
"future-war" sequence.
Graham
Ian Palmer
: In article <34hcve$k...@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>
: [The 'extended' version:]
: > how the Terminator (the Arnie one) managed to
: > learn during the latter half of the film (about a 10 minute scene is
: > cut where they open his head and take out the chip to switch it into
: > read/write mode as opposed to read only, and Sarah almost destroys the
: > chip - this scene cost a lot to shoot because they had to build two
: > identical sets back to back to give the impression of a mirror image
: > in a mirror and use Linda Hamilton's twin sister).
: Eh? I've read that sentence 4 times and still can't make sense of it.
: Why the twin? Why reverse the set? Can't you just flip the film
: mechanically or digitally? What's so complicated about the scene?
Sorry, let me explain.
Take a set of a room (a sort of work room, possibly car maintenance
garage). Now imagine a mirror on one of the walls. Now remove the
mirror and knowk a hole in the wall where the mirror should be. On the
other side of the wall construct a duplicate of the set only in mirror
image - so when looking at the 'mirror' you see a mirror image of the
set. Now place Arnie sitting in front of the 'mirror' only in the
mirror image set (the second one) and a model of his head on the other
side (the real set side) and a Linda Hamilton standing next to one of
the Terminators and her twin sister standing beside the other.
Now imagine a shot which starts off behind the model head looking
through the mirror - pan in to the model head (no scene cuts) and the
opening of the model head and the removal of a 4 inch by 3 inch
cylinder (something you couldn't really expect to do to Arnie's head).
Now imageing this whole scene cut from the final release.
:-)
Ian
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G Bell
>The BBC, on the other hand, used to show credits in full - and have in the
>last few years adopted the compromise of speeding them up - so that only
>those stupid enough to want to read them get a chance to try out their
>video's slow motion facilities.
That's how ITV started. I remember first seeing it with the credits of
Raiders of the Lost Ark. What galls me is that this one of the few
outlets for composers of Orchestral music and also for the jobing
musicians who come in cold and work their butts of for a couple of days.
I wonder what people would say if they stopped the broadcasting of Last
Night of the Proms because it was over-running it's time slot? A lot of
the complaints for over-long credits come from the older generation. I
personally think they should welcome it as it gives them time to make a
pot of tea to help them relax, after watching all the "sex and violence"
they always complain about, before the next programme comes on.
Graham
SillyWiz
>
>Eh? I've read that sentence 4 times and still can't make sense of it.
>Why the twin? Why reverse the set? Can't you just flip the film
>mechanically or digitally? What's so complicated about the scene?
>
You could do it you filmed in 65mm, ( which becomes 70mm when the soundtrack
is added ) but 35mm is filmed with a blank soundtrack segment that would be
in the way ( AFAIK ) but it's a bit interesting if you try..
( Picture a splice, a splice done by a space out student who's been up about
20 hours. Yes, I stuck the film together twisted.. ten minutes into a reel,
the picture takes a jump left and the audience get to watch a wiggly line on
the left hand side of the screen while the picture buzzes through the optical
sound head.. Whups. )
It's much easier to cheat & build the set the wrong way round..
-- the SillyWiz --
-------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
The University of Warwick cares little | Eat Cows -- There's no need to eat
for my opinions the rest of the time so| green things since the cows eat them
it can't have these if it wants them. | and then you can eat the cows. Mooo!
-------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
Keith Lucas ---- sill...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk , cs...@csv.warwick.ac.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darren Storer
In article <34hcve$k...@frigate.doc.ic.ac.uk>
i...@doc.ic.ac.uk "Ian Palmer" writes:
[Lots of Text deleted...]
> also contains a second (or should that be first) dream sequence in
> which whatsisname (the person sent back in the first film, can't for
> the life of me remember his name) appears and warns Sarah of the
> danger, which is why she is so desperate to escape.
>
> It is a real shame this version will only be available in NTSC lasar
> disc :-(
Errrm, well how do you explain the box set I have been watching for the
last week on NTSC VHS tape ? One tape with the FULL film and one featuring
the trailers and an explanation of the edited (out) scenes. More than three
hours of amazing entertainment.
I have T2 on NTSC Laser Disc but could not justify the cost of the special
edition box set.
Regards
Darren
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Redstar Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 61 773 3886 Internet: dar...@g7lwt.demon.co.uk
Fax: +44 61 773 3446 AX25: G7LWT@GB7BEV.#16.GBR.EU
as...@amxc.uk.sun.com
According to an advert shown on a multi-screen stage in Warner Bros in the Kingston Bentalls Centre, the second season of this excellent programme will be shown on BBC1 next year (about mid-year) and not on Sky.
Asad.
G.C.COX
>According to an advert shown on a multi-screen stage in Warner Bros in the Kingston Bentalls Centre, the second season of this excellent programme will be shown on BBC1 next year (about mid-year) and not on Sky.
>Asad.
Good job but can we really wait that long for another series? By the way
whose bright Idea was it to put the repeats on BBC 1 at 8.30 am Saturdays.
Havent they realised that people who want to watch Terri Hatcher dont get up
that early at Weekends after going out the night before?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GEOFF COX, ASTON UNIVERSITY, ASTON TRIANGLE, BIRMINGHAM, UNITED KINGDOM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"HANG ON TO THOSE PERSONAL BELONGINGS NOW, '
CAUSE THIS HERE IS THE WILDEST RIDE IN THE WILDERNESS."
- Big Thunder Mountain at The Magic Kingdom, Walt Disney World, Fl.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mr AR Burford
: >According to an advert shown on a multi-screen stage in Warner Bros in the Kingston Bentalls Centre, the second season of this excellent programme will be shown on BBC1 next year (about mid-year) and not on Sky.
: >Asad.
: Good job but can we really wait that long for another series? By the way
: whose bright Idea was it to put the repeats on BBC 1 at 8.30 am Saturdays.
: Havent they realised that people who want to watch Terri Hatcher dont get up
: that early at Weekends after going out the night before?
Well, I hope you managed to get up at the crack of noon on Sunday to see Teri
(with just the one 'r') in a guest slot in the Quantum Leap repeat.
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: GEOFF COX, ASTON UNIVERSITY, ASTON TRIANGLE, BIRMINGHAM, UNITED KINGDOM
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
: "HANG ON TO THOSE PERSONAL BELONGINGS NOW, '
: CAUSE THIS HERE IS THE WILDEST RIDE IN THE WILDERNESS."
: - Big Thunder Mountain at The Magic Kingdom, Walt Disney World, Fl.
: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Andy B, managing to get up at dawn only by staying awake all night...