ATWT: Chilly Question
Elaine Linstruth
by blood? Is Ivafinallygone&gottenouttatown not Holdumb's blood-relative?
Isn't Holdumb Chilly's..... uncle?
Someone please respond via email, so I don't miss the answer to this
burning question. :)
Kinda sorta confused on this issue,
AntiEm
--
Elaine Linstruth <ela...@gcr.com>
Regina Alexandra Robbins
Linstruth) wrote:
>
> Hey, I have another question. How come Chilly and Holdumb aren't related
> by blood? Is Ivafinallygone&gottenouttatown not Holdumb's blood-relative?
> Isn't Holdumb Chilly's..... uncle?
In the most improbable series of adoption discoveries ever...Iva and Lucy
realize that Chills is Iva's daughter. Holdumb knows this because he is
CONSTANTLY EAVESDROPPING--that boy finds out EVERYTHING by subterfuge!!
Anyway, he's worried, because he's hot for Chilly, but is her uncle.
Eavesdropping again, he hears Emma (BTW, I've always liked her, all you
anti-Enema folks) telling Iva that she was adopted from the people on the
next farm. Iva's relieved--that means cousin Josh's rape of her was not
incest. Holdummy is relieved--that means his lust for Chilly is not
incest.
Cousin Josh, possibly one of the most sympathetic (in SPITE of his having
been a rapist once) characters ever to appear on ATWT, comes to town
(calling himself "Rod" for some reason). I think he started suspecting
that Chilly was his daughter. Somehow, Iva finds him and Chilly alone
together talking, goes psycho and starts pointing a pitchfork at him,
screaming, "Don't touch her! She's your daughter!!!!" Poor Chilly finds
out that she is adopted and that she was conceived in a rape. She and
Holdumb run away to North Dakota. When they finally come back to Oakdale,
she finds out that he knew about her parentage before she did. She runs
out into the night and loses her virginity to Dusty Donovan (only the first
in a series of rebound relationships).
But hey! Guess what? Josh is adopted too! His real father was Cal, not
Uncle Billy, so he is not actually related to the Snyders. Thank God--that
means that the attraction he and Meg have always felt for one another is
not wrong.
So let's work out Lily's family tree, shall we?
MOTHERS: 2 -- L. Walsh, I. Snyder
FATHERS: 2 -- J. Snyder/Stricklyn, Martin Guest (who committed suicide when
she was little)
GRANDMAS: 1 -- Emma
GRANDPAS: 2 -- C. Stricklyn, Jared (Iva's natural father)
SISTERS: 2 -- Sierra Estevan, Bianca Walsh
BROTHERS: 2 -- Aaron (if he counts as Iva's son) and MJ
AUNTS: 4 -- Sam, Neal, Meg, Ellie
UNCLES: 4 -- Royce, Seth, Caleb, Holden
I always thought this entire setup was sick and unhealthy, though of course
I couldn't help wanting Holden and Lily, and especially Josh and Meg, to
get together. But the idea of your grandmother being your mother-in-law?
Of your mom being your sister-in-law? Yuck! Too fucked up for me.
Regina.
Renate Greiner
In article <2ni7rg$5...@ukelele.gcr.com> you write:
> Hey, I have another question. How come Chilly and Holdumb aren't related
> by blood? Is Ivafinallygone&gottenouttatown not Holdumb's blood-relative?
> Isn't Holdumb Chilly's..... uncle?
This one had me puzzled for a while, too...
Lily's biological mother Iva is not Holdumb's natural sister... she, too,
was adopted! Seems that the Snyders had some neighbours in Luther's Corner
called Jared and ? Carpenter who were really poor and they had to give
up their farm and couldn't take care of the baby and so, out of the good-
ness of their hearts, Emma and hubbie adopted the baby.
To everyone's great surprise, Jared Carpenter now is an extremely wealthy
man living in New England! He also is the uncle of Lenore, Kirk's first
wife! Which means that Lenore and Iva are not only cousins but would
almost also have been married to the same man [not at the same time, of
course :-)]
Oh right, one more thing about Jared Carpenter: he courted Emma at the
same time Cal did - the two men would try to outdo the other by buying
Emma new kitchen appliances like a modern fridge, stove, etc... ROTFL!
bye, Anti-Em,
Renate Greiner
ren...@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl
Michael Scott Warner
Renate Greiner <ren...@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl> wrote:
>Hi, Anti-Em,
>
>In article <2ni7rg$5...@ukelele.gcr.com> you write:
>> Hey, I have another question. How come Chilly and Holdumb aren't related
>> by blood? Is Ivafinallygone&gottenouttatown not Holdumb's blood-relative?
>> Isn't Holdumb Chilly's..... uncle?
>
>This one had me puzzled for a while, too...
>
>Lily's biological mother Iva is not Holdumb's natural sister... she, too,
>was adopted! Seems that the Snyders had some neighbours in Luther's Corner
>called Jared and ? Carpenter who were really poor and they had to give
>up their farm and couldn't take care of the baby and so, out of the good-
>ness of their hearts, Emma and hubbie adopted the baby.
>
>To everyone's great surprise, Jared Carpenter now is an extremely wealthy
>man living in New England! He also is the uncle of Lenore, Kirk's first
>wife! Which means that Lenore and Iva are not only cousins but would
>almost also have been married to the same man [not at the same time, of
>course :-)]
>
You know, as convluted as that is - it's only HALF the reason that
Lily and Holden aren't blood related. Remember that Lily is also
Josh's daughter, Josh being the son of Holden's Uncle Henry and Aunt
Elizabeth. This would make Holden and Lily first cousings once
removed. But, they conveniently made Josh Elizabeth's son through an
affair with...drum roll please...yet another millionaire - Cal Strickland!
So it took the writers making Iva adopted and Josh illegitimate to make
the "Lily is really Iva and Josh's daughter" story work without breaking
up Lily and Holden.
It was a running joke that Lily came up with 2 millionaire grandfathers,
and when would the next be coming out? Maybe Martin Guest's (Lily's
adoptive father) dad will end up being Alexander Cabot!
Which brings up a question - when I started watching, Lily had occassional
flashbacks to finding Martin's body after he committed suicide. Did that
actually occur on the show? I wasn't around when Lucinda burst into
town. Whom did everyone blame for everything back then?!?
EtTuMike
Regina Alexandra Robbins
Scott Warner) wrote:
> Which brings up a question - when I started watching, Lily had occassional
> flashbacks to finding Martin's body after he committed suicide. Did that
> actually occur on the show? I wasn't around when Lucinda burst into
> town. Whom did everyone blame for everything back then?!?
It happened before Lily and Lucy came to Oakdale, but I think there was a
storyline about Lily remembering that--she'd repressed it or something.
Regina.
hor...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
> In article <14751.94...@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl>,
> Renate Greiner <ren...@paramount.nikhefk.nikhef.nl> wrote:
>>Hi, Anti-Em,
>>
>>In article <2ni7rg$5...@ukelele.gcr.com> you write:>>
>>Lily's biological mother Iva is not Holdumb's natural sister... she, too,
>>was adopted! Seems that the Snyders had some neighbours in Luther's Corner
>>called Jared and ? Carpenter who were really poor and they had to give
>>up their farm and couldn't take care of the baby and so, out of the good-
>>ness of their hearts, Emma and hubbie adopted the baby.
Jared and the late Carolyn Carpenter gave Iva up for adoption to Emma
and the late Harvey Snyder after the Carpenter farm went bankrupt and Emma
had a miscarriage thinking she was barren.
>>To everyone's great surprise, Jared Carpenter now is an extremely wealthy
>>man living in New England! He also is the uncle of Lenore, Kirk's first
>>wife! Which means that Lenore and Iva are not only cousins but would
>>almost also have been married to the same man [not at the same time, of
>>course :-)]
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jarred lives in Southampton, New York on the upper class Long Island
and is the CEO of the Carpenter, Reese, and Cromwell firm. He lives with his
other spoiled and jealous daughter Elizabeth who is married to his
business partner, Stuart Cromwell.
>
> You know, as convluted as that is - it's only HALF the reason that
> Lily and Holden aren't blood related. Remember that Lily is also
> Josh's daughter, Josh being the son of Holden's Uncle Henry and Aunt
> Elizabeth. This would make Holden and Lily first cousings once
> removed. But, they conveniently made Josh Elizabeth's son through an
> affair with...drum roll please...yet another millionaire - Cal Strickland!
> So it took the writers making Iva adopted and Josh illegitimate to make
> the "Lily is really Iva and Josh's daughter" story work without breaking
> up Lily and Holden.
>
> It was a running joke that Lily came up with 2 millionaire grandfathers,
> and when would the next be coming out? Maybe Martin Guest's (Lily's
> adoptive father) dad will end up being Alexander Cabot!
>
> Which brings up a question - when I started watching, Lily had occassional
> flashbacks to finding Martin's body after he committed suicide. Did that
> actually occur on the show? I wasn't around when Lucinda burst into
> town. Whom did everyone blame for everything back then?!?
> --------------------------------------------------------------
Mike,
Good to see you filling in ATWT history on the net. You always do a
great job. Lily was having those flash backs when she started to
suspect that Lucinda might not be her real mother. I think that she
soon found out that Lucinda had adopted her and this was shortly
before, she found out that Iva and Josh were her parents when Iva
attacked Josh with a pitchfork and blurted out the truth. Martin
Guest had been dead for at least ten years before Lily and Lucinda appeared on
the show in 1984 and his suicide was only mentioned briefly when
Lucinda was a suspect in the Whit McColl murder. She had held him
responsible for Martin's depression when Whit had destroyed his
business and Lucinda threatened to get revenge by buying out McColl
Enterprises. She did get the business but McColl was murdered by his
jealous former housekeeper, Dorothy Connors instead.
> EtTuMike
Just wanted to add those exta facts. Did anyone enjoy my histrivia
questions last week? I guess the thirty-eighth anniversary went by
very quietly on the show.
Bill
"...As the world turns, we know the bleakness of winter, the promise
of spring, the fullness of summer, and the harvest of autumn... the
cycle of life is completed... What is true of nature is also true of
[people]. [They] too [have] a cycle."
Karyn M Peiser
stands for? Thanks a lot!
Karyn
Karin Dietterich
>Okay, I feel really stupid but could someone please tell me what TPTB
>stands for? Thanks a lot!
Don't feel stupid. This questions pops up every once in a while.
TPTB stands for The Powers That Be.
New: Karin Dietterich Old: Karin Coffee
k...@ssd.intel.com kar...@ssd.intel.com
Intel Supercomputer Systems Division
#include <std/disclaimer.h>
Richard Huntington
Peiser) writes...
>stands for? Thanks a lot!
>
It stands for: The Powers That Be.
--
Richard Huntington - ric...@dt.uh.edu
Operating Systems Specialist
University of Houston-Downtown, Houston, Texas USA
Elaine Linstruth
now I'm wondering one more thing: if Martin Guest was Lily's adoptive
father, why are Lucinda and Lily named Walsh? Was Lucinda a Walsh before
or after her marriage to Martin Guest?
Also, I know Conner took Lucinda's company from her, but how was Conner
related to Mr. Walsh-whoever-he-was.
I swear, I really do watch the show.. and I can tell you all kinds of
Sierra/Craig, or Betsy/Steve stories! But all of this stuff happened when
I tuned out for a few years. :)
hor...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu
> Thanks for the updates everybody. I really appreciate all the info! But
> now I'm wondering one more thing: if Martin Guest was Lily's adoptive
> father, why are Lucinda and Lily named Walsh? Was Lucinda a Walsh before
> or after her marriage to Martin Guest?
>
> Also, I know Conner took Lucinda's company from her, but how was Conner
> related to Mr. Walsh-whoever-he-was.
>
Jacobo Esteban was Lucinda's first husband and his
chauvinistic ways forced Lucinda to abandon the country of Montega and their
baby daughter Sierra. About twenty five years ago Lucinda married
Martin Guest who adopted Lily with her. He commited suicide about
five years later after his business had been ruined by communications
mogul Whit McColl and young Lily even witnessed the horrible tragedy.
A few years later, Lucinda married the wealthy CEO of Walsh Enterprises,
James E. Walsh, Sr. Walsh adopted Lucinda's daughter also and she
became Lily Walsh. Walsh was much older than Lucinda(she married him
to inherit his money). When he died it was intended that Walsh
Enterprises go to his son by a previous marriage, James E. Walsh, Jr.
(The son was married to Edwina and was the father of Connor and Evan).
James, Jr. was sort of a weak man when it came to the family business
and soon enough Lucinda had manipulated the stockholders into turning
the reigns over to her. James was devestated by this and eventually
committed suicide.
All of these storylines occurred at least ten years before
the characters of Lily and Lucinda Walsh first appeared on ATWT back
in 1984. The details of Lucinda's marriage to James E. Walsh, Sr. were
not revealed until his grandchildren, Connor and Evan first appeared in 1990.
Lara Vesper
<hor...@guvax.acc.georgetown.edu> wrote:
(snip, snip)
>
> All of these storylines occurred at least ten years before
>the characters of Lily and Lucinda Walsh first appeared on ATWT back
>in 1984. The details of Lucinda's marriage to James E. Walsh, Sr. were
>not revealed until his grandchildren, Connor and Evan first appeared in 1990.
>
>Bill
>
first showed up, they used false names to disguise their identities. I know
Connor was "Connor Jameson," but what was Evan's? I remember that Connor used
to call him "Jamie," but now I can't remember if that was his real name or if
Evan was. I'm thinking that Evan was the fake name, but that he ended up
keeping it (which is why I've always thought that it was strange that Edwina
calls him Evan). Am I remembering this wrong?
BTW, this is my first posting to the Ward after many months of lurking. I love
this group! I've watched ATWT since the fall of 1986 (I think Sierra gave
birth to Bryant around the time I started watching regularly), and it is my
favorite. I had always disliked the new Emmmugly, but I've really started to
hate her after hearing how much you guys do too! I generally agree with most
of the wardees who think Shrunkin is an awful character since she's been back,
but contrary to what seems to be popular opinion, I do not like Dunkin! I've
never liked him and his cheesy fake scottish accent and his he-man bravado!
Holdummy is also on my nerves big time, and i used to really like him. I do
still like the Snyder farm and hope that the writers don't get rid of the
family (though they could kill off Caleb and his sexist-pig attitude!). Well,
I could go on and on, but I'll save some of my comments for later. Wouldn't
want to get too worked up..... I might need some pretty pink pills!
Lara, who has no nickname!
Thomas Gunter
Lara Vesper <lco...@infant2.sphs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>This reminded me of something that has been bugging me-- when Connor and Evan
>first showed up, they used false names to disguise their identities. I know
>Connor was "Connor Jameson," but what was Evan's? I remember that Connor used
>to call him "Jamie," but now I can't remember if that was his real name or if
>Evan was. I'm thinking that Evan was the fake name, but that he ended up
>keeping it (which is why I've always thought that it was strange that Edwina
>calls him Evan). Am I remembering this wrong?
Connor's 'real' name is Connor Walsh (anyone know her middle name?), and
Evan's is James ('Jamie') Evan Walsh. 'Jameson' came from their father
James Walsh (but made many people think they might have something to do
with James Stenbeck). Don't know how he convinced Edweenie to call him
Evan, though.
>BTW, this is my first posting to the Ward after many months of lurking.
>I love this group!
Welcome! It's like a family. A very deranged family, but a family none
the less.
[...]
>I generally agree with most
>of the wardees who think Shrunkin is an awful character since she's been back,
I really liked Shrunkin in the old days, but I haven't actually watched the
show since August (I keep up with the updates (thanks updaters!)) so I
just have to take everyone's word that she's annoying.
[...]
>Holdummy is also on my nerves big time, and i used to really like him.
Again, I liked him ... but he sounds stupid lately.
[...]
>Wouldn't want to get too worked up..... I might need some pretty pink pills!
Here, have some of mine. When I was new, somebody shared their green
jello with me, so I'll pass on the favor.
>Lara, who has no nickname!
Don't worry ... you will soon.
TornadoTom
--
Thomas Gunter | "The difference between fiction and
The University of Texas at Austin | reality is that fiction has to make
tgu...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | sense." -- Tom Clancy
Elaine Linstruth
>Don't worry ... you will soon.
Lara, post some info about yourself so we can start trying to think of
nicks. For instance, according to your email address, you are in Indiana?
Same goes for all you other lurked individuals - post some hints for us!
I (for one) like to brainstorm on nicknames.. and it's been awhile since
we had a mass nicking around here. :)
Lara Vesper
OK-- Yes, I'm in Bloomington, IN, home of Indiana University. I came to
grad school here four years ago (sociology). I didn't like it, but I fell in
love with a wonderful Astro-physics "geek," got married, and now work in the
Business School. I have a wonderful but obnoxious dog named Data (yes, she's
named after the Star Trek:TNG character-- that's what you get when you live
with an astronomer!). Thanks to my husband, I'm becoming a computer "nerd"--
I am becoming addicted to newsgroups! Let's see... I've been crocheting a lot
lately because most of my friends have either had babies or are pregnant. Its
a great thing to do while watching the tapes of my soaps. I currently tape
ATWT and GL, but I read the Y&R and B&B updates. I started watching all the
CBS soaps in the fall of 1986 when one of my freshman corridor-mates introduced
me to them (by the way, I attended Miami University in Oxford, OH for
undergrad (I graduated in 1990 with a BA in psychology/ sociology) -- I
mention this because I've seen people post from there). ATWT has always been
my favorite and I really enjoy reading all the posts here! Sometimes the show
can drive me absolutely nuts! I find that the sociologist in me tries to
analyze things too much which can really drive you crazy! (Gee, is this a
good reason to be admitted to the Ward?).
I don't know if this has been done before (I've only been reading r.a.t.s. for
a few months), but what have been your most and least favorite story lines on
ATWT? I'm going to have to think about my all-time favorite, but I know that
my all-time least favorite has to be the one where Shannon kept hearing
"Margaret's" ghost crying in the castle and how it stopped when Duncan's
daughter lived through giving birth to a daughter! Talk about corny! If this
has been done before, I apologize, but I'd be interested in hearing some of
the wardees opinions...
Lara
Vanessa Dwyer
lco...@infant2.sphs.indiana.edu (Lara Vesper) writes:
Favorite story line? Boy, am I going to date myself here....I liked
it when Bob and Lisa were expecting Tom and lived with Nancy and Chris.
Bob was a resident in medical school. Lisa was a spoiled brat then
as well, and always whined when Bob had to be on call--like he had a
choice being a med student? The only room you ever saw at the Hughes
was the kitchen, where Nancy was ALWAYS cooking and giving out advice
and Chris's father, called Grandpa, lived with them. He was the perfect
grandpa type--always making things in his woodworking shop and seemed to
be the only one who could keep Nancy in line when she got on an interferring
mother in law tear. BTW, how do you get admitted to the ward? As far
as bio info, I am a divorced mother of 3, currently living in Buffalo and
working at Univ at Buffalo in the School of Medicine, Social and Preventive
Medicine. Moving to Richmond, VA in August--any Richmond folks on here that
could give me any hints on life in Richmond? About to hit the big 4-0 at
the end of the month. Have watched ATWT since 1959-60. Am a teddy bear
freak--they line my mantel in the living room. So, maybe you all have
enough to find me a nickname and a room in the ward somewhere. Thanks
for all the great posts--what a bunch! Ness
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem!"
Vanessa G. Dwyer ( )___( )
State University at Buffalo /o o\
South Campus | > |
Social and Preventive Medicine \ O /
School of Medicine __/ __ \__
270 Farber Hall ()__ / \ __()
(716) 829-2975 | N |
Bitnet Address: VDWYER@UBVM __ \__ /
/ \ / / \ \
| H | < | ( )
_\ _/___(_)____________
(_______________________)
00 00
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Dale Joyner
## a few months), but what have been your most and least favorite story lines on
## ATWT? I'm going to have to think about my all-time favorite, but I know that
## my all-time least favorite has to be the one where Shannon kept hearing
## "Margaret's" ghost crying in the castle and how it stopped when Duncan's
## daughter lived through giving birth to a daughter! Talk about corny! If this
## has been done before, I apologize, but I'd be interested in hearing som
There are two storylines that I think are the best that ATWT has ever done. My
aall-time favorite is the Douglas Cummings mystery which aired during the
winter and spring of 1986. This involved Frannie and Kim and a weird secret
admirer of Kim's who had killed several people. Of course, he wound up dead and
Kim took the blame, thinking Frannie did it. It was an excellent story.
My other favorite is the story of Angel and Henry Lange and Holden and
Lily.This happened in the spring of 1991. This story was very exciting and
full of surprises.
The dumbest story they have ever done has to be the one about Margaret's
ghost - I fast forwarded through that drivel. I also hated Lilith and Shannon's
shrunken head. My least favorite story, though, was when they cheated when
James Stenbeck supposedly "died." They had a murder trial for Barbara and
everything, and then James turned up alive. I stopped watching for about a year
after that. I also didn't like the Carolyn Crawford murder mystery.
Dale Joyner
Mathematical Sciences Dept.
Appalachian State University
Boone, N.C.