GL --- What Happened With Philip/Grant Aleksander
Anthony D. Langford
According to SOW, here is what happened that led to GA's firing. GA had
become increasingly difficult to work with over a long period of time,
but it had become really bad over the past few months, so bad that
several of the show's actresses refused to work with him. But the last
straw reportedly revolved around the plot twist in which Beth Ehlers
(Harley) had to wear a fat suit and interact with Philip. GA insisted
that Philip would see through the disguise and demanded a rewrite. The
show complied and the script was changed that Philip had an eye
infection and that's why he didn't recognize Harley. Insiders say that
for Ellen Wheeler, the show's new exec producer, that incident was the
last straw and GA was canned. Another source, however, says that it
wasn't Ellen's decision and the choice came from the top brass. And P&G
insists it was a story dictated choice. All in all, Philip will most
likely be murdered.
--
Anthony D. Langford
Creator/Writer of Covington Bay -- An Online Soap Opera
http://www.geocities.com/covingtonbayonline
Rthrquiet
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>According to SOW, here is what happened that led to GA's firing. GA had
>become increasingly difficult to work with over a long period of time,
>but it had become really bad over the past few months, so bad that
>several of the show's actresses refused to work with him. But the last
>straw reportedly revolved around the plot twist in which Beth Ehlers
>(Harley) had to wear a fat suit and interact with Philip. GA insisted
>that Philip would see through the disguise and demanded a rewrite. The
>show complied and the script was changed that Philip had an eye
>infection and that's why he didn't recognize Harley. Insiders say that
>for Ellen Wheeler, the show's new exec producer, that incident was the
>last straw and GA was canned.
I certainly hope it was based on something much, much, much, much, MUCH more
substantial than this. While I can appreciate that disputes like this one could
be a really disruptive factor in taping, if this is typical of the kind of
behavior that got Grant fired, I can't say I'm very sympathetic to TPTB's point
of view, because this is exactly the kind of stuff I wish somebody *would*
complain about before it makes it on to the air. The way this comes off, it
smacks of shooting the messenger. (Gee, guys: How about not writing lame
scenarios and storylines? Wouldn't that be a better solution all around?) So I
would have to hope that either this story is wrong, or that there's much more
going on here.
>Another source, however, says that it
>wasn't Ellen's decision and the choice came from the top brass.
This would be less surprising to me, if the above story is true. MADD deciding
to shoot the messenger rather than fix the problem, sure, that I could buy.
It's exactly her MO. (Ask Leah Laiman.) Wheeler firing him over something like
what's described above is something I'd prefer not to believe.
>And P&G
>insists it was a story dictated choice.
Ri-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-ght. We all believe that one, don't we?
>All in all, Philip will most
>likely be murdered.
>
All in all, this is most likely a very bad decision.
Michael
Darn
>Date: 9/10/04 1:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2qSdne4R6t6...@comcast.com>
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>According to SOW, here is what happened that led to GA's firing. GA had
>become increasingly difficult to work with over a long period of time,
>but it had become really bad over the past few months, so bad that
>several of the show's actresses refused to work with him.
So wait, he's been working in this business for over 20 years and now is when
he decides to start acting up? I find that hard to believe.
But the last
>straw reportedly revolved around the plot twist in which Beth Ehlers
>(Harley) had to wear a fat suit and interact with Philip. GA insisted
>that Philip would see through the disguise and demanded a rewrite. The
>show complied and the script was changed that Philip had an eye
>infection and that's why he didn't recognize Harley. Insiders say that
>for Ellen Wheeler, the show's new exec producer, that incident was the
>last straw and GA was canned.
Because he didn't want to play a stupid plot point? Can't fault him for that
really. If Maurice Benard can have stories changed for him on a whim why can't
Grant refuse to play something so stupid?
Darn
Vote Bush in '04: So he can finish the job he never began.
Peter J
>
>So wait, he's been working in this business for over 20 years and now is when
>he decides to start acting up? I find that hard to believe.
>
Weren't there reports or rumors that Judi Evans hated working with him in the
early 80's, and that was the reason they broke Beth and Phillip up? I think at
one point she absolutely could not work with Grant.
Donna B
<20040910153714...@mb-m07.aol.com>, peter...@aol.comnospam
(Peter J) wrote:
> > chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote:
> >So wait, he's been working in this business for over 20 years and now is when
> >he decides to start acting up? I find that hard to believe.
You're right. Absolutely didn't just begin & has been discussed by many fans
for many years. He was fired & unfired just last May. There have been many
other times his butt was saved. Wolf. Straw. Pick your parable.
> Weren't there reports or rumors that Judi Evans hated working with him in the
> early 80's, and that was the reason they broke Beth and Phillip up? I think at
> one point she absolutely could not work with Grant.
No idea why they broke them up [easy to believe it was] but they're not
rumors. True. It's why Judi fled GL at the end of her first contract. It's
the reason that Judi remembers GL as an awful experience. It's the reasons
Judi cried after work many days at GL. Of course, he was a 'callow youth' at
the time. And, he got MOL enlisted in the same kind of 'teasing' behavior,
which is really bullying. Krista hated it, too, just hated it! But, ... it
wasn't directed at her.
--
Donna B 8^>
"Pornography exists for the lonesome, the ugly, the fearful ... It's made
for the losers." - Rita Mae Brown, 'Ms' [1994]
Donna B
<2qSdne4R6t6...@comcast.com>, "Anthony D. Langford"
<anthonyd...@comcast.net> wrote:
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> According to SOW, here is what happened that led to GA's firing. GA had
> become increasingly difficult to work with over a long period of time,
> but it had become really bad over the past few months,
Months?!!! That must be that new calendar where a month lasts 365 days.
> so bad that
> several of the show's actresses refused to work with him. ...
Let's see how many is several? All? Almost all? 3? 7? 23?
--
Donna B 8^>
"Our feelings are our most genuine paths to knowledge." - Audré Lorde
Peter J
>
>No idea why they broke them up [easy to believe it was] but they're not
>rumors. True. It's why Judi fled GL at the end of her first contract. It's
>the reason that Judi remembers GL as an awful experience. It's the reasons
>Judi cried after work many days at GL. Of course, he was a 'callow youth' at
>the time. And, he got MOL enlisted in the same kind of 'teasing' behavior,
>which is really bullying. Krista hated it, too, just hated it! But, ... it
>wasn't directed at her.
Thanks for the confirmation. I'd heard Judi mention this in the past, or read
it somewhere, but since she also said she had a hard time dealing w/some people
in her last years at AW, I wasn't sure if that was just a pattern for her.
----
http://www.basicrights.org/ - Oregon
http://www.loveisloveislove.com
http://www.hrc.org
http://www.massequality.com
http://www.actionwisconsin.org/
http://www.freedomtomarry.org/
http://www.dontamend.com
http://www.ngltf.org/
Sarah Estell
"Donna B" <shall...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:3024k0t11nhft3q96...@4ax.com...
> In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:08:39 -0400 in Msg.#
> <2qSdne4R6t6...@comcast.com>, "Anthony D. Langford"
> <anthonyd...@comcast.net> wrote:
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> > According to SOW, here is what happened that led to GA's firing. GA had
> > become increasingly difficult to work with over a long period of time,
> > but it had become really bad over the past few months,
>
> Months?!!! That must be that new calendar where a month lasts 365 days.
>
> > so bad that
> > several of the show's actresses refused to work with him. ...
>
> Let's see how many is several? All? Almost all? 3? 7? 23?
LOL! While I can respect Grant standing up for his character (like he did
when Conboy wanted to reunite him with Beth) and also respect an actor who
has some attention to detail which is sorely lacking in writers these days
(IMO), it must be VERY difficult for an actress in the midst of a scene to
deal with the interruptions. And also, "standing up for character" can be
one way that someone with an ego justifies their diva-ish actions- when the
issues really aren't all that important. Harley in a fat suit? Not really
important, IMO. Beth/Phillip reuniting - now THAT is a different story and
I'm glad he threw a fit about that one.
SarahE
Darn
>Date: 9/10/04 4:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3l14k0dadlvootl91...@4ax.com>
It's strange the things you never hear about, I had no idea Grant had done
these things, I'm surprised he's been employeed for so long. If this is true.
Donna B
<d%n0d.24967$nA6....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Sarah Estell"
<est...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
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> LOL! While I can respect Grant standing up for his character (like he did
> when Conboy wanted to reunite him with Beth) and also respect an actor who
> has some attention to detail which is sorely lacking in writers these days
> (IMO), it must be VERY difficult for an actress in the midst of a scene to
> deal with the interruptions. And also, "standing up for character" can be
> one way that someone with an ego justifies their diva-ish actions- when the
> issues really aren't all that important. Harley in a fat suit? Not really
> important, IMO. Beth/Phillip reuniting - now THAT is a different story and
> I'm glad he threw a fit about that one.
I agree with you! Both for the contextual reason that Conboy wanted to drive
Phillip & Beth immediately back into each other's arms & abruptly drop
current story *and* because it 'came up' at least a week ahead of time. Not
in the middle of a scene over whether he could *still* tell it was Harley.
The 'still' implies very strongly to me that many people had been working
hard to get the undercover get-up to be credible enough to pass muster! Why
else would he say that he could still tell that it was Harley under that
thing?
As Gus would say, time to get on the bus - or get out of the way.
BRUCE BEADLE b
Re: GL --- What Happened With Philip/Grant Aleksander
Group: rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs Date: Fri, Sep 10, 2004, 7:37pm (CDT+5)
From: peter...@aol.comnospam (Peter J)
i liked john's portrayal of phillip better. the show needs alan
michael. what happened to hope bauer coming back? bruce
DMK
>
> But the last
> >straw reportedly revolved around the plot twist in which Beth Ehlers
> >(Harley) had to wear a fat suit and interact with Philip. GA insisted
> >that Philip would see through the disguise and demanded a rewrite. The
> >show complied and the script was changed that Philip had an eye
> >infection and that's why he didn't recognize Harley. Insiders say that
> >for Ellen Wheeler, the show's new exec producer, that incident was the
> >last straw and GA was canned.
>
> Because he didn't want to play a stupid plot point? Can't fault him for that
> really. If Maurice Benard can have stories changed for him on a whim why can't
> Grant refuse to play something so stupid?
>
>
> Darn
I think the words "last straw" are the operative ones here. GA's lousy
treatment of his (mainly female) co-stars and various executives has
been ongoing for his entire tenure at GL and was counterproductive to
the working atmosphere there. I think it was time to put a stop to it.
Killing the character on the other hand, is totally unnecessary and I
hope they change their minds.
DMK
Sarah
>
> "Anthony D. Langford" anthonyd...@comcast.net posted:
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> >According to SOW, here is what happened that led to GA's firing. GA had
> >become increasingly difficult to work with over a long period of time,
> >but it had become really bad over the past few months, so bad that
> >several of the show's actresses refused to work with him. But the last
> >straw reportedly revolved around the plot twist in which Beth Ehlers
> >(Harley) had to wear a fat suit and interact with Philip. GA insisted
> >that Philip would see through the disguise and demanded a rewrite. The
> >show complied and the script was changed that Philip had an eye
> >infection and that's why he didn't recognize Harley. Insiders say that
> >for Ellen Wheeler, the show's new exec producer, that incident was the
> >last straw and GA was canned.
>
> I certainly hope it was based on something much, much, much, much, MUCH more
> substantial than this. While I can appreciate that disputes like this one could
> be a really disruptive factor in taping, if this is typical of the kind of
> behavior that got Grant fired, I can't say I'm very sympathetic to TPTB's point
> of view, because this is exactly the kind of stuff I wish somebody *would*
> complain about before it makes it on to the air. The way this comes off, it
> smacks of shooting the messenger. (Gee, guys: How about not writing lame
> scenarios and storylines? Wouldn't that be a better solution all around?) So I
> would have to hope that either this story is wrong, or that there's much more
> going on here.
Unfortunetly Michael, I got pretty much the same story (I heard in grave
detail about the eye infection part). What I don't know about is the
actresses. I _did_ hear that Crystal was sick of it, but I heard nothing
about Beth ... actually I heard Beth was not too crazy about this story.
Either way, yes, Grant's been complaining because while he liked having
a story, as we've seen, it's gotten increasingly stupid. WAY back during
the drugging part of the story Grant started asking questions about
where in the heck the story was going. I _heard_ he went to Ellen about
his problems of the story when the changeover happened. Ellen heard him,
but getting out of the maze of what they had done to the story, well, it
didn't happen. Grant kept asking, pestering, talking about what makes
sense for Phillip regarding Olivia, Zach, Harley, Gus, etc. I also heard
this was really frustrating for Ellen, but I have heard nothing that
implies she wasn't sympathetic, she just felt she didn't need it, Grant
gave her no time to get her bearings (although to be fair, don't take
the job if you can't immediately handle it IMO).
So basically Grant wasn't willing to keep waiting for things to pick up
and make some darn sense again (and then the stories got even more
ridiculous which really cut into his patience) and other cast members
are. It created an obvious difference between he and the rest of the
cast and he was taken to slaughter.
There MAY be more to it I haven't heard, but what was reported here
seems about right.
> >Another source, however, says that it
> >wasn't Ellen's decision and the choice came from the top brass.
>
> This would be less surprising to me, if the above story is true. MADD deciding
> to shoot the messenger rather than fix the problem, sure, that I could buy.
> It's exactly her MO. (Ask Leah Laiman.) Wheeler firing him over something like
> what's described above is something I'd prefer not to believe.
What I heard is that Ellen was sick of the whining and while MADD made
the decision, Ellen is falling on her sword saying it was her deal
(probably because she's glad he's gone).
> >And P&G
> >insists it was a story dictated choice.
>
> Ri-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-ght. We all believe that one, don't we?
Yeah, well, this isn't entirely bogus ... a Spaulding member I heard was
supposed to kick the bucket in this new story (I actually heard it would
be Alan, causing a Harley/Gus reunion possibility down the line, but
I've got no confirmation on that, maybe Donna knows). Switching from
Alan to Phillip isn't that hard these days, substitute Alan for Phillip
in this Cooper war, viola!
> >All in all, Philip will most
> >likely be murdered.
> >
>
> All in all, this is most likely a very bad decision.
I honestly don't know anymore. I adore Grant and his constant
determination (along with Michael O'Leary) to not let crap slide too
long is something I've always admired about him. And yet, Phillip has
been taken down the garden path and beaten silly with the small respite
of his romance with Olivia and losing _Phillip_ right now doesn't sadden
me. The way he's been written we don't need him, we don't need ANY of
the Spaulding family anymore IMO (and I just might include Gus in that).
IMO, Grant being an advocate for sensible writing will be far more
missed than Phillip; Grant being a great bit of eye candy will be far
more missed than Phillip; Grant being a wonderful male talent when we
have the likes of Bradley Cole eating up air time will be far more
missed than Phillip.
sarah
"sarah says" - The Serial Bowl for the new millenium
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/16094
Sarah
Well, as Donna said, what Grant did back then is not the same as what is
happening now. He was bullying with his co-stars back then, just
completely disrespectful to them, and acting like a jerk with his female
co-stars. What is happening now is more arguing with the creative team
than with his fellow cast members (although I'm sure he still does some
of that, but not to the same degree).
Also Darn, cast members being nasty to each other and not getting along
is a LONG tradition in soaps. Judi and Grant are just one example, but
they are not by a long shot the only one, or IMO the worst ones.
As for why he's been employed for so long, he's incredibly good!
Shawn H
: Unfortunetly Michael, I got pretty much the same story (I heard in grave
: detail about the eye infection part). What I don't know about is the
: actresses. I _did_ hear that Crystal was sick of it, but I heard nothing
: about Beth ... actually I heard Beth was not too crazy about this story.
: Either way, yes, Grant's been complaining because while he liked having
: a story, as we've seen, it's gotten increasingly stupid. WAY back during
: the drugging part of the story Grant started asking questions about
: where in the heck the story was going. I _heard_ he went to Ellen about
: his problems of the story when the changeover happened. Ellen heard him,
: but getting out of the maze of what they had done to the story, well, it
: didn't happen. Grant kept asking, pestering, talking about what makes
: sense for Phillip regarding Olivia, Zach, Harley, Gus, etc. I also heard
: this was really frustrating for Ellen, but I have heard nothing that
: implies she wasn't sympathetic, she just felt she didn't need it, Grant
: gave her no time to get her bearings (although to be fair, don't take
: the job if you can't immediately handle it IMO).
To be fair, she's never had it before, it's a big promotion for her,
getting her bearings is an important, reasonable concept I think.
: So basically Grant wasn't willing to keep waiting for things to pick up
: and make some darn sense again (and then the stories got even more
: ridiculous which really cut into his patience) and other cast members
: are. It created an obvious difference between he and the rest of the
: cast and he was taken to slaughter.
: There MAY be more to it I haven't heard, but what was reported here
: seems about right.
Was he feeling this way during A. Spaulding, too (the story that brought
him back, and broke up his marriage to Beth); that mess was way more
annoying and inconsistent than what's been going on recently with the
drugging and the insanity and Oedipal stuff with Alan.
: > All in all, this is most likely a very bad decision.
: I honestly don't know anymore. I adore Grant and his constant
: determination (along with Michael O'Leary) to not let crap slide too
: long is something I've always admired about him. And yet, Phillip has
: been taken down the garden path and beaten silly with the small respite
: of his romance with Olivia and losing _Phillip_ right now doesn't sadden
: me. The way he's been written we don't need him, we don't need ANY of
: the Spaulding family anymore IMO (and I just might include Gus in that).
I'm still loving the Spaulding/Cooper feud, I don't have a problem with
the Spauldings as rich bastard villains, not at all.
: IMO, Grant being an advocate for sensible writing will be far more
: missed than Phillip; Grant being a great bit of eye candy will be far
: more missed than Phillip; Grant being a wonderful male talent when we
: have the likes of Bradley Cole eating up air time will be far more
: missed than Phillip.
Agreed on all those wonderful attributes of his (and the lack thereof of
others).
Shawn
Shawn H
: No idea why they broke them up [easy to believe it was] but they're not
: rumors. True. It's why Judi fled GL at the end of her first contract. It's
: the reason that Judi remembers GL as an awful experience. It's the reasons
: Judi cried after work many days at GL. Of course, he was a 'callow youth' at
: the time. And, he got MOL enlisted in the same kind of 'teasing' behavior,
: which is really bullying. Krista hated it, too, just hated it! But, ... it
: wasn't directed at her.
That saddens me to think of Judi not enjoying a time that was so great
for the show. Was she happier with Vince I. as her acting partner at
least?
Krista? Blanking on who that was.
Wonder how Kelly Ripa feels about him.
Shawn
Shawn H
: As for why he's been employed for so long, he's incredibly good!
Reason enough, plus all the handsome.
He was a GORGEOUS drop dead angry young man. Once I saw the Four
Musketeers I never went back to GH. Luke and Laura just didn't compare.
Shawn
Shawn H
: chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote in message
: I think the words "last straw" are the operative ones here. GA's lousy
: treatment of his (mainly female) co-stars and various executives has
: been ongoing for his entire tenure at GL and was counterproductive to
: the working atmosphere there. I think it was time to put a stop to it.
: Killing the character on the other hand, is totally unnecessary and I
: hope they change their minds.
What no one has mentioned yet: how about recasting him with John Bolger
again? He's just as talented, sexy in his own way. Heck, then we could
try to get India all over again, and this time have somebody besides Ross
and Alan to throw her at.
ATWT has Randy Mantooth ready to step into Ben Hendricksen's shoes, I
don't see why GL can't be just as prepared.
Shawn
##################################################
Selena to Drew: As for *you*, break a leg. In
fact, break two. And an arm.
############shill...@fas.harvard.edu##########
Shawn H
: "Donna B" <shall...@optonline.net> wrote in message
: news:3024k0t11nhft3q96...@4ax.com...
: > In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:08:39 -0400 in Msg.#
: > <2qSdne4R6t6...@comcast.com>, "Anthony D. Langford"
: > <anthonyd...@comcast.net> wrote:
: >
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: issues really aren't all that important. Harley in a fat suit? Not really
: important, IMO. Beth/Phillip reuniting - now THAT is a different story and
: I'm glad he threw a fit about that one.
Agreed. The "eye infection" thing sounds ridiculous, and like it would
totally undermine the point of the story, that Harley's disguise is good
enough to fool everyone. Sometimes a little suspension of disbelief is
required, and it's certainly not unlikely that Harley will come up with
some sort of goofy, unusual solution to her Phillip problem.
Shawn
Anthony D. Langford
>From: Shawn H shill#@fas.harvard.edu
>Date: 9/11/04 12:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <chtudn$ron$8...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu>
>
>DMK <David_M...@excite.com> wrote:
>: chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote in message
>
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>: I think the words "last straw" are the operative ones here. GA's lousy
>: treatment of his (mainly female) co-stars and various executives has
>: been ongoing for his entire tenure at GL and was counterproductive to
>: the working atmosphere there. I think it was time to put a stop to it.
>: Killing the character on the other hand, is totally unnecessary and I
>: hope they change their minds.
>
>What no one has mentioned yet: how about recasting him with John Bolger
>again? He's just as talented, sexy in his own way. Heck, then we could
>try to get India all over again, and this time have somebody besides Ross
>and Alan to throw her at.
>
>ATWT has Randy Mantooth ready to step into Ben Hendricksen's shoes, I
>don't see why GL can't be just as prepared.
>
Was John Bolger a popular Philip? He was with me, but I wonder if overall, he
was accepted by the audience.
Anthony D. Langford
Creator/Writer of Covington Bay --- An Online Soap Opera
http://www.geocities.com/covingtonbayonline
Darn
>Date: 9/10/04 11:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <414271...@pacbell.net>
>
>Darn wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >No idea why they broke them up [easy to believe it was] but they're not
>> >rumors. True. It's why Judi fled GL at the end of her first contract. It's
>> >the reason that Judi remembers GL as an awful experience. It's the reasons
>> >Judi cried after work many days at GL. Of course, he was a 'callow youth'
>at
>> >the time. And, he got MOL enlisted in the same kind of 'teasing' behavior,
>> >which is really bullying. Krista hated it, too, just hated it! But, ... it
>> >wasn't directed at her.
>> >
>>
>> It's strange the things you never hear about, I had no idea Grant had done
>> these things, I'm surprised he's been employeed for so long. If this is
>true.
>
>snip<
>Also Darn, cast members being nasty to each other and not getting along
>is a LONG tradition in soaps. Judi and Grant are just one example, but
>they are not by a long shot the only one, or IMO the worst ones.
>
I like how you said that to me like I'm stupid. It's funny.
Darn
>Date: 9/11/04 12:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <chtu4b$ron$6...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu>
Mindy.
>Wonder how Kelly Ripa feels about him.
I wondering that as well.
Anthony D. Langford
>Date: 9/11/04 12:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20040911005505...@mb-m21.aol.com>
Given who she's married to, GA's difficult behavior was probably very familiar
to her.
Peter J
>
>
>I'm still loving the Spaulding/Cooper feud, I don't have a problem with
>the Spauldings as rich bastard villains, not at all.
>
The Spauldings are not supposed to be rich bastard villains. That is cardboard
cutout, Dynasty nonsense, and is a slap in the face to people like Chris
Berneau and Beverlee McKinsey.
Dana Carpender
Shawn H wrote:
Krista Tesrau (I *know* I'm spelling that wrong,) the *true* Mindy
Lewis. I'll never forget the scene where she and Phillip met -- I
called it Meat Meets Meat. Mindy was at the country club in her skimpy
little white tennis dress, and walked into the stables to find Phillip,
who was trying to not be a rich kid, currying a horse in nothing but
tight blue jeans. Quothe she, brightly, "My, what a *beautiful* animal."
Classic stuff, that.
Dana
Dana Carpender
Shawn H wrote:
> DMK <David_M...@excite.com> wrote:
> : chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> : I think the words "last straw" are the operative ones here. GA's lousy
> : treatment of his (mainly female) co-stars and various executives has
> : been ongoing for his entire tenure at GL and was counterproductive to
> : the working atmosphere there. I think it was time to put a stop to it.
> : Killing the character on the other hand, is totally unnecessary and I
> : hope they change their minds.
>
> What no one has mentioned yet: how about recasting him with John Bolger
> again?
Oh, God, not Bolger. I *hated* him as Phillip. I'm not anti-recast,
but to my mind Bolger's just all wrong for the part.
Dana
Sarah Estell
"Shawn H" <shill#@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:chtudn$ron$8...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu...
> DMK <David_M...@excite.com> wrote:
> : chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote in message
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> : I think the words "last straw" are the operative ones here. GA's lousy
> : treatment of his (mainly female) co-stars and various executives has
> : been ongoing for his entire tenure at GL and was counterproductive to
> : the working atmosphere there. I think it was time to put a stop to it.
> : Killing the character on the other hand, is totally unnecessary and I
> : hope they change their minds.
>
> What no one has mentioned yet: how about recasting him with John Bolger
> again? He's just as talented, sexy in his own way. Heck, then we could
> try to get India all over again, and this time have somebody besides Ross
> and Alan to throw her at.
Yuck. I hated John Bolger as Phillip. He just was NOT Phillip to me. For
one thing, he is not 1/10 as gorgeous as GA. And for another, he just came
off as whiny and manipulative with none of Phillip's "sweetness." Now, that
sweetness seems to be gone anyway, but I still wouldn't want Bolger back in
the role. I think the notion of bringing back A-M to fill the role of the
conflicted good/bad son is the way to go.
SarahE
Rthrquiet
>Yuck. I hated John Bolger as Phillip. He just was NOT Phillip to me. For
>one thing, he is not 1/10 as gorgeous as GA.
Isn't it funny how different perceptions are! I think Grant's a terrific actor,
but when it comes to looks, he does nothing for me and never has. Bolger, on
the other hand . . . oh my.
Michael
Anthony D. Langford
>Date: 9/11/04 10:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20040911105833...@mb-m16.aol.com>
And I think they are both very handsome and appealing men, just in completely
different ways.
Sarah Estell
"Rthrquiet" <rthr...@aol.comatose> wrote in message
news:20040911105833...@mb-m16.aol.com...
The good news is that we don't have to fight over our Phillips. You can
have your way with Bolger, and I'll have my way with Grant. We both win!
LOL!
SarahE
Shawn H
: >That saddens me to think of Judi not enjoying a time that was so great
: >for the show. Was she happier with Vince I. as her acting partner at
: >least?
: >
: >Krista? Blanking on who that was.
: Mindy.
Oh, d'oh!!! She was the one around when Judi was, wasn't she. I'm more of
a Kim Simms/Barbara Crampton Mindy person myself, not that I wouldn't
love to see Krista come back, too!
: >Wonder how Kelly Ripa feels about him.
: I'm wondering that as well.
She's too smart to ever tell us, of course. Unless they could make it
into an SNL skit.
Shawn
Shawn H
: Shawn H wrote:
> least? : > : > Krista? Blanking on who that was. : >
: Krista Tesrau (I *know* I'm spelling that wrong,) the *true* Mindy
: Lewis. I'll never forget the scene where she and Phillip met -- I
: called it Meat Meets Meat. Mindy was at the country club in her skimpy
: little white tennis dress, and walked into the stables to find Phillip,
: who was trying to not be a rich kid, currying a horse in nothing but
: tight blue jeans. Quothe she, brightly, "My, what a *beautiful* animal."
: Classic stuff, that.
Never saw that scene, but I can see it so clearly now. Yeah, Krista was
definitely the sauciest Mindy.
Shawn
Shawn H
: >>Wonder how Kelly Ripa feels about him.
: >
: >I wondering that as well.
: >
: Given who she's married to, GA's difficult behavior was probably very familiar
: to her.
Is a certain Mr. Conseulos a bit of a prima donna? Chronologically,
though, it seems like Grant would have prepared her for Mateo, rather
than the other way around, right?
Shawn
Shawn H
: "Shawn H" <shill#@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
: news:chtudn$ron$8...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu...
: > DMK <David_M...@excite.com> wrote:
: > : chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote in message
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: >
: > What no one has mentioned yet: how about recasting him with John Bolger
: > again? He's just as talented, sexy in his own way. Heck, then we could
: > try to get India all over again, and this time have somebody besides Ross
: > and Alan to throw her at.
: Yuck. I hated John Bolger as Phillip. He just was NOT Phillip to me. For
: one thing, he is not 1/10 as gorgeous as GA. And for another, he just came
: off as whiny and manipulative with none of Phillip's "sweetness." Now, that
: sweetness seems to be gone anyway, but I still wouldn't want Bolger back in
: the role. I think the notion of bringing back A-M to fill the role of the
: conflicted good/bad son is the way to go.
Even without Rick Hearst? To me, JB is a Proctor & Gamble staple, a very
reliable choice.
Plus, I've always thought he's at least as handsome as GA. He's got
dreamy eyes. And he's in one of the best ever gay movies, Parting
Glances, even if he played a rat bastard.
Shawn
Shawn H
: "Sarah Estell" est...@wi.rr.com posted:
They're both gorgeous in different ways; but I accepted John's side of
Phillip pretty readily; I loved his chemistry with India.
Shawn
BRUCE BEADLE b
Re: GL --- What Happened With Philip/Grant Aleksander
From: shill#@fas.harvard.edu (Shawn H)
chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote in message
I think the words "last straw" are the operative ones here. GA's lousy
treatment of his (mainly female) co-stars and various executives has
been ongoing for his entire tenure at GL and was counterproductive to
the working atmosphere there. I think it was time to put a stop to it.
Killing the character on the other hand, is totally unnecessary and I
hope they change their minds.
What no one has mentioned yet: how about recasting him with John Bolger
again? He's just as talented, sexy in his own way. Heck, then we could
try to get India all over again, and this time have somebody besides
Ross and Alan to throw her at.
ATWT has Randy Mantooth ready to step into Ben Hendricksen's shoes, I
don't see why GL can't be just as prepared.
Shawn
bolger would be a great recast for phillip. i liked Johns work when
he played phillip before. shawn, do you think this is a publicity
stunt? thanks bruce
bruce a beadle
BRUCE BEADLE b
Re: GL --- What Happened With Philip/Grant Aleksander
From: anthonyl...@aol.comnojunk (Anthony D. Langford)
John Bolger as Phillip. all of my friends that watched gl liked John.
my friends quit watching gl whn john left anthony. bruce
Dana Carpender
BRUCE BEADLE b wrote:
>
> Re: GL --- What Happened With Philip/Grant Aleksander
>
> Group: rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs Date: Sat, Sep 11, 2004, 4:20am (CDT+5)
> From: shill#@fas.harvard.edu (Shawn H)
> DMK <David_M...@excite.com> wrote:
> chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote in message
> I think the words "last straw" are the operative ones here. GA's lousy
> treatment of his (mainly female) co-stars
What, exactly, does Grant do to his female co-stars? Yell at them?
Upstage them? Act like a condescending male chauvinist jerk? Refuse to
brush his teeth before kissing them?
Just wondering.
Dana
Anthony D. Langford
>From: Shawn H shill#@fas.harvard.edu
>Message-id: <chvimk$363$3...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu>
>Is a certain Mr. Conseulos a bit of a prima donna?
More than a bit. I met him once; it was not a nice experience. It showed me
that when Mateo was being an ass, he wasn't acting.
Chronologically,
>though, it seems like Grant would have prepared her for Mateo, rather
>than the other way around, right?
>
I suppose you're right, now that you think about it. I guess I remember them
all being on at the same time.
Sarah Estell
"Dana Carpender" <dcar...@kivanospam.net> wrote in message
news:oXI0d.174728$mD.105083@attbi_s02...
>
>
>
> What, exactly, does Grant do to his female co-stars? Yell at them?
> Upstage them? Act like a condescending male chauvinist jerk? Refuse to
> brush his teeth before kissing them?
>
> Just wondering.
Dana, I've been wondering that too. In the recent example with Ehlers, I
wondered if it has to do with the actresses getting ready for a scene,
getting in character and being ready to play a scene in a certain way, and
then at the last minute Grant demanding a re-write. This would just put the
writers/directors out, but would also force his co-stars to re-learn lines,
blocking, etc.
But given the description of Judi Evans feelings about him, I have to
believe there is something more there. DonnaB, can you share anything? Or
sarah?
SarahE
Donna B
<oXI0d.174728$mD.105083@attbi_s02>, Dana Carpender <dcar...@kivanospam.net>
wrote:
> What, exactly, does Grant do to his female co-stars?
Grant just is Grant. He doesn't *do* anything to just them; he does his
thing to everyone & anyone - when he does his thing.
> Yell at them?
I have no idea if he raises his voice to them or not.
> Upstage them?
I somehow don't think it's that kind of thing.
> Act like a condescending male chauvinist jerk?
I am sure that a part of his continued immaturity, his temperament, which is
much better now than it once was, is male, is chauvinistic, etc.
> Refuse to brush his teeth before kissing them?
I don't think it's anything silly like that. The only actors I've ever known
who couldn't work those things out & weren't considerate of each other in
those ways were real oddball jerks or people in very specific feuds just
with each other.
> Just wondering.
Acting together is a very particular co-worker kind of relationship. Some
people make others comfortable & foster a sense of trust & create a space
where they can be in the moment & about the work. Some people make others
tense & pull everyone out of the moment & make it about ... whatever their
thing - little or big or timely or not du jour - is.
Donna B
<RrJ0d.25689$6h7....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Sarah Estell"
<est...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> Dana, I've been wondering that too. In the recent example with Ehlers, I
> wondered if it has to do with the actresses getting ready for a scene,
> getting in character and being ready to play a scene in a certain way, and
> then at the last minute Grant demanding a re-write. This would just put the
> writers/directors out, but would also force his co-stars to re-learn lines,
> blocking, etc.
>
> But given the description of Judi Evans feelings about him, I have to
> believe there is something more there. DonnaB, can you share anything? Or
> sarah?
Two very different examples from different time periods, true. What do they
have in common? Putting himself before others. Putting everyone else after
himself. Not paying attention to warnings or hearing them but deciding they
are without merit & his own opinion is more worthy. Or, maybe a lack of
self-control, a self-destructive bent? With Judi it was all about being
wildly out of control boys teasing the girls to the torture point. Beginning
on Day One it was aimed at Judi, though, and that she was fat. She'd grown
up in the circus. That was made fun of, I believe. She'd never been away
from home, much less across the country or in New York or in the north at
all during winter & she was homesick & a little lonely & freezing & going
through culture shock from arriving one day & going into a crazy work
schedule the very next day - this was all fodder to make fun of her. When it
became MORE than obvious that it wasn't funny & should be stopped - it
instead was ratcheted up & up & up.
Peter J
>
>Oh, d'oh!!! She was the one around when Judi was, wasn't she. I'm more of
>a Kim Simms/Barbara Crampton Mindy person myself, not that I wouldn't
>love to see Krista come back, too!
I'd rather see Phyllis Diller as Mindy than ever have Barbara Crampton step
foot on GL again.
Most bizarre of all is that her Mindy had this horrible California accent, and
then as soon as she went to B&B, she had this cornpone accent. She never even
tried an accent as Mindy Lewis, who was born and raised in Tulsa.
Peter J
>
>Yuck. I hated John Bolger as Phillip. He just was NOT Phillip to me. For
>one thing, he is not 1/10 as gorgeous as GA.
I think Bolger is and was gorgeous. The eyes, his face, the eyes, his build,
pretty much perfect. He never seems to try to be what he isn't, and is very
secure in himself.
Grant has a very nice body but from the neck up he has always seemed a bit
equine to me.
Dana Carpender
Donna B wrote:
> In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:43:29 GMT in Msg.#
> <RrJ0d.25689$6h7....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>, "Sarah Estell"
> <est...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Dana, I've been wondering that too. In the recent example with Ehlers, I
>>wondered if it has to do with the actresses getting ready for a scene,
>>getting in character and being ready to play a scene in a certain way, and
>>then at the last minute Grant demanding a re-write. This would just put the
>>writers/directors out, but would also force his co-stars to re-learn lines,
>>blocking, etc.
>>
>>But given the description of Judi Evans feelings about him, I have to
>>believe there is something more there. DonnaB, can you share anything? Or
>>sarah?
>
>
> Two very different examples from different time periods, true. What do they
> have in common? Putting himself before others. Putting everyone else after
> himself. Not paying attention to warnings or hearing them but deciding they
> are without merit & his own opinion is more worthy.
Wow. He really is Phillip.
Dana
Sarah
>
> >Subject: Re: GL --- What Happened With Philip/Grant Aleksander
> >From: rthr...@aol.comatose (Rthrquiet)
> >Date: 9/11/04 10:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <20040911105833...@mb-m16.aol.com>
> >
> >"Sarah Estell" est...@wi.rr.com posted:
> >
> >>Yuck. I hated John Bolger as Phillip. He just was NOT Phillip to me. For
> >>one thing, he is not 1/10 as gorgeous as GA.
> >
> >Isn't it funny how different perceptions are! I think Grant's a terrific
> >actor,
> >but when it comes to looks, he does nothing for me and never has. Bolger, on
> >the other hand . . . oh my.
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> And I think they are both very handsome and appealing men, just in completely
> different ways.
What he said. I adore Bolger, but not in the same way I do Grant. And
Grant IS Phillip.
sarah
"sarah says" - The Serial Bowl for the new millenium
http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/16094
Sarah
>
> In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:08:52 GMT in Msg.#
> <oXI0d.174728$mD.105083@attbi_s02>, Dana Carpender <dcar...@kivanospam.net>
> wrote:
>
> > What, exactly, does Grant do to his female co-stars?
>
> Grant just is Grant. He doesn't *do* anything to just them; he does his
> thing to everyone & anyone - when he does his thing.
Yeah, BUT, he does tend to do this more with the ladies. I don't know
why, perhaps because most of the guys are much more patient with his
attitude, he doesn't have to work with them as frequently in such a
close environment, and/or the actresses tend to be much more willing to
suck it up than the actors.
> > Yell at them?
>
> I have no idea if he raises his voice to them or not.
I would guess no. Grant has said scenes where Phillip constantly yells
is havoc on his vocal chords so I doubt he makes a habit of doing it off
camera.
Sarah
What Donna said about Judi I would completely agree with. But as for
putting himself before others, yes, it is definitely perceived that way
by the fellow actors, but Grant honestly doesn't see it that way and
there are some in the cast that agree with his intent, just not his
approach. For a LONG time Ehlers was one of those people, but I don't
know if that changed. To my knowledge O'Leary still is.
His "diva" demanding isn't really for him per se. He's not demanding
juice before a scene, being shot from one side or something. His
demanding, it's for "the craft".
Here's an example, Robert Reed had an infamous moment where he fought
with Sherwood Schwartz on the set of the Brady Bunch because he was
supposed to say he smelled strawberries when they have no odor while
cooking. Reed did that ALL the time, and eventually, the last six
episode of the series, no Reed. This is essentially IMO, what Grant has
been doing or up against depending on how you see it, for a few years
now. There are two ways of looking at it, Donna's way, aka the
ultimately selfish actor who refuses to be a team players or Grant's way
aka you can only constantly try to sell unbelievable crap for so long in
such an unstable environment.
Sarah
>
> Donna B <shall...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> : No idea why they broke them up [easy to believe it was] but they're not
> : rumors. True. It's why Judi fled GL at the end of her first contract. It's
> : the reason that Judi remembers GL as an awful experience. It's the reasons
> : Judi cried after work many days at GL. Of course, he was a 'callow youth' at
> : the time. And, he got MOL enlisted in the same kind of 'teasing' behavior,
> : which is really bullying. Krista hated it, too, just hated it! But, ... it
> : wasn't directed at her.
>
> That saddens me to think of Judi not enjoying a time that was so great
> for the show. Was she happier with Vince I. as her acting partner at
> least?
> Wonder how Kelly Ripa feels about him.
When Grant started working there, Kelly was still awfully green and
relied on a certain core group of actors, one of them being David who
was very protective of her. So IF Grant tried any of his crap, David
stopped it, I'm certain.
Uniblab
news:20040911173540...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >Shawn H shill#@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
>
> >
> >Oh, d'oh!!! She was the one around when Judi was, wasn't she. I'm more of
> >a Kim Simms/Barbara Crampton Mindy person myself, not that I wouldn't
> >love to see Krista come back, too!
>
> I'd rather see Phyllis Diller as Mindy than ever have Barbara Crampton
step
> foot on GL again.
>
> Most bizarre of all is that her Mindy had this horrible California accent,
and
> then as soon as she went to B&B, she had this cornpone accent. She never
even
> tried an accent as Mindy Lewis, who was born and raised in Tulsa.
>
lasted about a month (though it seemed like much longer) and had one of the
worst Southern accents ever to hit daytime.
Tesreau *was* Mindy. Everyone else was just a pretender.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Sarah Estell
"Uniblab" <uni...@uniblab.net> wrote in message
news:4143b408$1...@corp.newsgroups.com...
> "Peter J" <peter...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
> news:20040911173540...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > >Shawn H shill#@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Oh, d'oh!!! She was the one around when Judi was, wasn't she. I'm more
of
> > >a Kim Simms/Barbara Crampton Mindy person myself, not that I wouldn't
> > >love to see Krista come back, too!
> >
> > I'd rather see Phyllis Diller as Mindy than ever have Barbara Crampton
> step
> > foot on GL again.
> >
> > Most bizarre of all is that her Mindy had this horrible California
accent,
> and
> > then as soon as she went to B&B, she had this cornpone accent. She never
> even
> > tried an accent as Mindy Lewis, who was born and raised in Tulsa.
> >
> Yeah, but what about that nightmare who came between Simms and Crampton?
She
> lasted about a month (though it seemed like much longer) and had one of
the
> worst Southern accents ever to hit daytime.
She was truly awful. Anne somethingorother. Anne Howard? Can't remember -
don't want to remember. But I truly despised Crampton in the role. I felt
she was way too old for the part.
>
> Tesreau *was* Mindy. Everyone else was just a pretender.
>
Loved Tesreau. Loved Simms. Would be thrilled to have either of them back.
Maybe for Phillip's funeral?
SarahE
Peter J
>
>She was truly awful. Anne somethingorother. Anne Howard? Can't remember -
>don't want to remember. But I truly despised Crampton in the role. I felt
>she was way too old for the part.
Ann Hamilton. Even Anne Howard isn't *that* bad. I remember very little of
Hamilton, other than her being dreadful -- I blocked the rest out.
I blocked most of Crampton out as well, except for a few laughs when Eve was
stalking her. There are also some terrible memories of her wearing bowling
shirts and going line dancing every other damn day. Remember when GL was all
about the line dancing? What fun to see a bunch of loser characters like Tangie
and bad recasts like Mindy teasing and ignoring yummy, unappreciated Cutter.
Between that and the idiocy w/Alan coming back as Mr. Orogato Roboto (possibly
the *dumbest* storyline on GL for years and years), it's not difficult to
remember why GL was almost cancelled in early 1995.
Crampton also had absolutely no rapport with her costars, at least for me. She
stuck out like a sore thumb. The only time that she redeemed herself was her
final scenes with Rick, when she left town to keep quiet about Eve's death.
They had such tenderness and heart that I found myself wishing the show could
have tried Rick/Mindy one last time.
>
>Loved Tesreau. Loved Simms. Would be thrilled to have either of them back.
>Maybe for Phillip's funeral?
Mindy has been used so well every time she returned for a visit, I'd love to
see her again. I'd love to see any of the Lewis family again. It's funny, I
hate Josh, but the rest of the family (Billy, HB, Dylan, even Trish on her
occasional guest appearance) were very special to me. I even liked Hawk and
tolerated Rusty.
I guess Roxie won't ever be coming back for a visit.
Anthony D. Langford
>Date: 9/11/04 10:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <2HO0d.14098$B51....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>
>
>She was truly awful. Anne somethingorother. Anne Howard? Can't remember -
I think it was Ann Hamilton. Anne Howard played Nicole Love on AW.
>don't want to remember. But I truly despised Crampton in the role. I felt
>she was way too old for the part.
>
She was pretty bad. And she and VI had *no* chemistry and VI is the kind of
actor who works well with anyone he's paired with usually.
>Loved Tesreau. Loved Simms. Would be thrilled to have either of them back.
>Maybe for Phillip's funeral?
>
Simms was a different Mindy, a much sexier and provacative Mindy, but she was
pretty good.
Darn
>Date: 9/11/04 6:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <mtu6k01bfaoru9euq...@4ax.com>
>
>On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:44:30 GMT, "Sarah Estell" <est...@wi.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Rthrquiet" <rthr...@aol.comatose> wrote in message
>>news:20040911105833...@mb-m16.aol.com...
>>> "Sarah Estell" est...@wi.rr.com posted:
>>>
>>> >Yuck. I hated John Bolger as Phillip. He just was NOT Phillip to me.
>>For
>>> >one thing, he is not 1/10 as gorgeous as GA.
>>>
>>> Isn't it funny how different perceptions are! I think Grant's a terrific
>>actor,
>>> but when it comes to looks, he does nothing for me and never has. Bolger,
>>on
>>> the other hand . . . oh my.
>>>
>>
>>have your way with Bolger, and I'll have my way with Grant. We both win!
>>LOL!
>>
>>SarahE
>>
>
>I never thought Grant was anything to look at. Can't TPTB replace him
>with George Clooney? ;-)
Or Curious George since I always though he looked like a monkey, especially
younger angry Phillip (like right after he found out Alan wasn't his bio-dad).
Darn
Vote Bush in '04: So he can finish the job he never began.
Dana Carpender
Peter J wrote:
>>"Sarah Estell" est...@wi.rr.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>She was truly awful. Anne somethingorother. Anne Howard? Can't remember -
>>don't want to remember. But I truly despised Crampton in the role. I felt
>>she was way too old for the part.
>
>
> Ann Hamilton. Even Anne Howard isn't *that* bad. I remember very little of
> Hamilton, other than her being dreadful -- I blocked the rest out.
>
> I blocked most of Crampton out as well, except for a few laughs when Eve was
> stalking her. There are also some terrible memories of her wearing bowling
> shirts and going line dancing every other damn day. Remember when GL was all
> about the line dancing? What fun to see a bunch of loser characters like Tangie
> and bad recasts like Mindy teasing and ignoring yummy, unappreciated Cutter.
> Between that and the idiocy w/Alan coming back as Mr. Orogato Roboto (possibly
> the *dumbest* storyline on GL for years and years), it's not difficult to
> remember why GL was almost cancelled in early 1995.
>
> Crampton also had absolutely no rapport with her costars, at least for me. She
> stuck out like a sore thumb.
If you'd like to get belated revenge, go rent Reanimator, a seriously
gory and funny horror movie from the '80s -- maybe the best horror movie
of the '80s. Crampton plays the dean's perky daughter, and ends up
being molested by a reanimated, decapitated corpse in a scene that can
only be called "the Head Gives Head." Not for the faint of heart, but
one of my favorite movies of all time, and Barbie makes a pretty good
Scream Queen.
Dana
Darn
>Message-id: <20040911162442...@mb-m14.aol.com>
>
>>Subject: Re: GL --- What Happened With Philip/Grant Aleksander
>>From: Shawn H shill#@fas.harvard.edu
>>Date: 9/11/04 3:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>>Message-id: <chvimk$363$3...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu>
>
>>Is a certain Mr. Conseulos a bit of a prima donna?
>
>More than a bit. I met him once; it was not a nice experience. It showed me
>that when Mateo was being an ass, he wasn't acting.
>
Please tell more.
> Chronologically,
>>though, it seems like Grant would have prepared her for Mateo, rather
>>than the other way around, right?
>>
>
>I suppose you're right, now that you think about it. I guess I remember them
>all being on at the same time.
She was running away from her Alec almost-wedding when she met Mateo on the
beach. That damned unlucky Pine Valley beach.
Shawn H
: >Shawn H shill#@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
: >
: >
: >I'm still loving the Spaulding/Cooper feud, I don't have a problem with
: >the Spauldings as rich bastard villains, not at all.
: >
: The Spauldings are not supposed to be rich bastard villains. That is cardboard
: cutout, Dynasty nonsense, and is a slap in the face to people like Chris
: Berneau and Beverlee McKinsey.
Dynasty was very entertaining, and I see no way that the current actors,
who've held the roles for years, are disrespecting what went on in the
past. They have to make the roles their own, as any recast does.
Shawn
xfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxf
"I'm fine, Agent Doggett."
-- dana
xfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxfxffxfx
shill...@fas.harvard.edu Shawn Hill
Shawn H
Shawn H
: I blocked most of Crampton out as well, except for a few laughs when Eve was
: stalking her. There are also some terrible memories of her wearing bowling
: shirts and going line dancing every other damn day. Remember when GL was all
: about the line dancing? What fun to see a bunch of loser characters like Tangie
She has many scenes with Nick, and with MarjAlex as her nemesis.
: and bad recasts like Mindy teasing and ignoring yummy, unappreciated Cutter.
: Crampton also had absolutely no rapport with her costars, at least for me. She
: stuck out like a sore thumb. The only time that she redeemed herself was her
: final scenes with Rick, when she left town to keep quiet about Eve's death.
: They had such tenderness and heart that I found myself wishing the show could
: have tried Rick/Mindy one last time.
She was very good with Dylan, I don't think Rick was around for much of
her stay (didn't he return just as she was leaving for Paris), and I
liked the Joe Lando stuff, too, even though it went nowhere.
Shawn
Shawn H
: >Loved Tesreau. Loved Simms. Would be thrilled to have either of them back.
: >Maybe for Phillip's funeral?
: >
: Simms was a different Mindy, a much sexier and provacative Mindy, but she was
: pretty good.
I saw her a very reactive and vulnerable Mindy, always on the run from
either Alex or Roger. Not that she didn't do that well, but Krista was
more of a spitfire.
Shawn
Shawn H
: > Wonder how Kelly Ripa feels about him.
: When Grant started working there, Kelly was still awfully green and
: relied on a certain core group of actors, one of them being David who
: was very protective of her. So IF Grant tried any of his crap, David
: stopped it, I'm certain.
She wasn't that green at that point, was she? Hadn't she already been on
about 5 years?
Shawn
Rthrquiet
>Peter J <peter...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
>
>: The Spauldings are not supposed to be rich bastard villains. That is
>cardboard
>: cutout, Dynasty nonsense, and is a slap in the face to people like Chris
>: Berneau and Beverlee McKinsey.
>
>Dynasty was very entertaining,
True. But it isn't GL, and GL isn't Dynasty.
>and I see no way that the current actors,
>who've held the roles for years, are disrespecting what went on in the
>past. They have to make the roles their own, as any recast does.
I don't think the actors are either (but then, I also don't see anything in
Peter's comment that says it's the actors who are committing the disrespect). I
suspect the actors are giving what the directors and producers are asking them
to, in the way of a performance. I do think the writing, especially in the MADD
era, has been a pretty thorough trashing of Alan and Alexandra Spaulding and
what Bernau and McKinsey, respectively, made of the roles--thoroughly
disrespectful to their contributions.
Michael
Peter J
>
>Dynasty was very entertaining,
A few scenes were entertaining, some dialogue was entertaining. Joan Collins
was entertaining. Much of the other stories were terrible, not even valuable as
camp, and not a way to write the Spaulding family.
>and I see no way that the current actors,
>who've held the roles for years, are disrespecting what went on in the
>past. They have to make the roles their own, as any recast does.
Making them into generic "bastards" is not making the role their own. I
remember that A Spaulding disaster and how generic the family was then. That is
how they are now.
Peter J
>
>
>She has many scenes with Nick, and with MarjAlex as her nemesis.
Yes, and all of those scenes were absolute rubbish. Her last year on the show
was spent line-dancing and spending time with other backburner favorites like
Tangie and Cutter.
>
>
>She was very good with Dylan, I don't think Rick was around for much of
>her stay (didn't he return just as she was leaving for Paris),
I don't even remember her being around Dylan, aside from family gatherings.
Rick was only around for the last few months of her stay. That was, by far, her
best material.
Anthony D. Langford
>Date: 9/12/04 3:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20040912155821...@mb-m12.aol.com>
>
>> Shawn H shill#@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
>
>>
>>Dynasty was very entertaining,
>
>A few scenes were entertaining, some dialogue was entertaining. Joan Collins
>was entertaining. Much of the other stories were terrible, not even valuable
>as
>camp, and not a way to write the Spaulding family.
>
Well I agree that the Spauldings are not the Carringtons and visa versa. The
Spauldings, historically, weren't and shouldn't be written as camp.
Ironically, when Joan Collins played Alex, she wasn't written as camp. They
saved the campy stuff for the actress whose 'talents' lend themselves for that
kind of material. As for the rest, in the early to mid years and the last
season, Dynasty, IMO remained fairly entertaining. The second season is
airing on now on SoapNet and I'm surprised at how good the show really was,
even better than I had remembered. Even in the seasons where my viewing was
spotty, there were still characters and stories I enjoyed. But then, Dynasty
was always my favorite prime time soap with Knots Landing a very strong second
(even though I know that creatively and acting wise, KL was the better soap).
Sarah Estell
"Peter J" <peter...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
other backburner favorites like
> Tangie and Cutter.
And can I just say how criminal it was that Cutter was backburner? I loved
Cutter and was more angry that Brent/Marion killed him than when he killed
Nadine.
SarahE
Dana Carpender
Sarah Estell wrote:
I miss Cutter -- and Levy! Where's Levy?
Dana
Bankboy18
>Date: 9/12/2004 3:15 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <ci278g$rfb$2...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu>
>
>Peter J <peter...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
>: >Shawn H shill#@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
>
>: >
>: >Oh, d'oh!!! She was the one around when Judi was, wasn't she. I'm more of
>: >a Kim Simms/Barbara Crampton Mindy person myself, not that I wouldn't
>: >love to see Krista come back, too!
>
>: I'd rather see Phyllis Diller as Mindy than ever have Barbara Crampton step
>: foot on GL again.
I loved Krista as Mindy back in the good days. But i LOVED Kimberly Simms and
Barbara Crampton (am i the ONLY person who liked her as Mindy???)
I wish Barbara Crampton would come back to the soaps and play Tina on OLTL, but
i know im gonna get shot for saying that.
Gary <ducking for cover>
Sarah Estell
"Dana Carpender" <dcar...@kivanospam.net> wrote in message
news:0I41d.79416$3l3.60069@attbi_s03...
I had forgotten Levy. I always loved how he would volunteer to work
Christmas because he was Jewish. It seemed a nice "real life" thing to do.
SarahE
Peter J
>
>Well I agree that the Spauldings are not the Carringtons and visa versa.
>The
>Spauldings, historically, weren't and shouldn't be written as camp.
>Ironically, when Joan Collins played Alex, she wasn't written as camp. They
>saved the campy stuff for the actress whose 'talents' lend themselves for
>that
>kind of material. As for the rest, in the early to mid years and the last
>season, Dynasty, IMO remained fairly entertaining. The second season is
>airing on now on SoapNet and I'm surprised at how good the show really was,
>even better than I had remembered. Even in the seasons where my viewing was
>spotty, there were still characters and stories I enjoyed.
Aside from a few seasons which were viable camp, I think the show was a curio,
nothing more. The first season was abysmal (I'll never forget all those women
oohing and aahing and reading the world's worst expository dialogue at
Krystal's engagement party, "I'd sure like to know that Blake Carrington, he
has his own football team, and he's a millionaire!!! Krystal is so lucky!") The
next few seasons were passable. After Pamela Sue Martin left the camp fizzled
and in it's place was nonsense like Moldavia, Blake and Alexis' insta-siblings,
Blake's convenient amnesia and gimmicky reunion with Alexis, Steven turning
straight a dozen different times, Fallon coming back sobbing and depressed all
the time, Krystal's trashy double, Sammy Jo sleepign with a coked up football
star, Diahann Caroll being completely wasted by the producers, and the many,
many characters who died slow, painful deaths onscreed (Ted McGinley's
character, Ben Carrington's daughter, Adam's wife Dana, Alexis' last husband
Sean, Amanda and that putrid recast of Amanda).
I think the show, along with Dallas and Falcon Crest, were popular because it
was the 80's and people wanted to see how the other half, the half they envied
and desperately wanted to be, lived. As interest waned, the shows died. That's
why no other primetime soaps since then have been popular. That's also why
Knots Landing - a quality drama - outlived most of the 80's pap.
Sarah
Nope, only three. And it was around this time actually that producers
insisted she get acting lessons to become more "polished".
Darn
>Date: 9/12/04 9:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20040912212915...@mb-m28.aol.com>
>
>> anthonyl...@aol.comnojunk (Anthony D. Langford) wrote:
>
>>
>>Well I agree that the Spauldings are not the Carringtons and visa versa.
>>The
>>Spauldings, historically, weren't and shouldn't be written as camp.
>>Ironically, when Joan Collins played Alex, she wasn't written as camp. They
>>saved the campy stuff for the actress whose 'talents' lend themselves for
>>that
>>kind of material. As for the rest, in the early to mid years and the last
>>season, Dynasty, IMO remained fairly entertaining. The second season is
>>airing on now on SoapNet and I'm surprised at how good the show really was,
>>even better than I had remembered. Even in the seasons where my viewing was
>>spotty, there were still characters and stories I enjoyed.
>
>I think the show, along with Dallas and Falcon Crest, were popular because it
>was the 80's and people wanted to see how the other half, the half they
>envied
>and desperately wanted to be, lived. As interest waned, the shows died.
>That's
>why no other primetime soaps since then have been popular. That's also why
>Knots Landing - a quality drama - outlived most of the 80's pap.
Are we forgetting Melrose Place, 90210, The OC (which is just a lotta hype if
you ask me but it is popular with someone)? Or were you just referring to
lavish productions?
Shawn H
: >and desperately wanted to be, lived. As interest waned, the shows died.
: >That's
: >why no other primetime soaps since then have been popular. That's also why
: >Knots Landing - a quality drama - outlived most of the 80's pap.
: Are we forgetting Melrose Place, 90210, The OC (which is just a lotta hype if
: you ask me but it is popular with someone)? Or were you just referring to
: lavish productions?
And Dawson's Creek, Party of Five, Summerland, One Tree Hill.
Shawn
Shawn H
: I loved Krista as Mindy back in the good days. But i LOVED Kimberly Simms and
: Barbara Crampton (am i the ONLY person who liked her as Mindy???)
Nope, there's me.
: I wish Barbara Crampton would come back to the soaps and play Tina on OLTL, but
: i know im gonna get shot for saying that.
I wish she would, too.
Shawn
Donna B
<4143AC...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Donna B wrote:
> > Two very different examples from different time periods, true. What do they
> > have in common? Putting himself before others. Putting everyone else after
> > himself. Not paying attention to warnings or hearing them but deciding they
> > are without merit & his own opinion is more worthy. Or, maybe a lack of
> > self-control, a self-destructive bent? With Judi it was all about being
> > wildly out of control boys teasing the girls to the torture point. Beginning
> > on Day One it was aimed at Judi, though, and that she was fat. She'd grown
> > up in the circus. That was made fun of, I believe. She'd never been away
> > from home, much less across the country or in New York or in the north at
> > all during winter & she was homesick & a little lonely & freezing & going
> > through culture shock from arriving one day & going into a crazy work
> > schedule the very next day - this was all fodder to make fun of her. When it
> > became MORE than obvious that it wasn't funny & should be stopped - it
> > instead was ratcheted up & up & up.
>
> What Donna said about Judi I would completely agree with. But as for
> putting himself before others, yes, it is definitely perceived that way
> by the fellow actors, but Grant honestly doesn't see it that way and
> there are some in the cast that agree with his intent, just not his
> approach.
I just want to point out here that there are plenty of divas in the world
who are completely *sure* that it's not just them, being them; that it's not
just them putting their own view ahead of others. Whether their view matches
up with other people's, well, that's the issue, isn't it?
> For a LONG time Ehlers was one of those people, but I don't
> know if that changed.
I think it would be best if we just leave GA's leading ladies out of it at
this point. At any moment I can imagine fans turning on them & deciding it's
all their fault. This is Grant's own doing.
> To my knowledge O'Leary still is.
Ya know how & what MOL feels is probably directly relative to where he
stands on keeping his job.
> His "diva" demanding isn't really for him per se. He's not demanding
> juice before a scene, being shot from one side or something. His
> demanding, it's for "the craft".
Or so he might think.
> ... There are two ways of looking at it, Donna's way, aka the
> ultimately selfish actor who refuses to be a team players or Grant's way
> aka you can only constantly try to sell unbelievable crap for so long in
> such an unstable environment.
I've tried very hard to emphasize what's what with Grant, which is his
temperament & choices he makes about how to proceed & when & over what. If
it appears that I think he's a selfish actor who is refusing to be a team
player, well, yes, ultimately I'd have to agree with that description, but
it's not a way I would choose to describe him.
This image that he's getting this punishment because he has integrity & the
other actors do not, by comparison, or even that the creative team doesn't,
since they're his foes, it just doesn't wash. He'd be doing this if he were
doing Shakespeare in the Park.
Donna B
> Donna B wrote:
> >
> > In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Sat, 11 Sep 2004 20:08:52 GMT in Msg.#
> > <oXI0d.174728$mD.105083@attbi_s02>, Dana Carpender <dcar...@kivanospam.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > What, exactly, does Grant do to his female co-stars?
> >
> > Grant just is Grant. He doesn't *do* anything to just them; he does his
> > thing to everyone & anyone - when he does his thing.
>
> Yeah, BUT, he does tend to do this more with the ladies. I don't know
> why, perhaps because most of the guys are much more patient with his
> attitude, he doesn't have to work with them as frequently in such a
> close environment, and/or the actresses tend to be much more willing to
> suck it up than the actors.
Certainly women are in the position to play the kind of very close stuff,
intimate stuff & for their co-actors to have more of an effect in that way.
Vice versa ought to happen but doesn't always.
> > > Yell at them?
> >
> > I have no idea if he raises his voice to them or not.
>
> I would guess no. Grant has said scenes where Phillip constantly yells
> is havoc on his vocal chords so I doubt he makes a habit of doing it off
> camera.
I don't see any reason to guess. I just think it was a random shot & that
there's absolutely no evidence to support it. People keep trying to say what
it is, as asked, and people keep trying to carry it off to ole Virginny, ...
Peter J
>
>Are we forgetting Melrose Place, 90210, The OC (which is just a lotta hype if
>you ask me but it is popular with someone)? Or were you just referring to
>lavish productions?
They are niche shows. None of them ever (although OC is still on the air) went
past the top 30, IIRC. Dynasty and Dallas were in the top 5, the top 3,
sometimes #1. They were icons of an era. Melrose and 90210 generated much press
hype, but always had a smaller audience.
Sarah
Well the question was asked, and I tried to answer it based on what I
knew, that's all.
Sarah
Fine.
> > For a LONG time Ehlers was one of those people, but I don't
> > know if that changed.
>
> I think it would be best if we just leave GA's leading ladies out of it at
> this point. At any moment I can imagine fans turning on them & deciding it's
> all their fault. This is Grant's own doing.
I don't see how. It's up to TPTB to decide whether or not the
environment on set is important enough to release an actor (and usually,
they don't). But it wasn't me who made the comment that his leading
ladies were fed up with him, I'm just elaborating on the comments with
what I knew to be true in the past. I'm certainly not attempting to
imply Beth stormed into Ellen's office and demanded Grant go or that
anyone else did that.
As for this being Grant's doing, in the sense that his behavior and
attitude meant that he was fired, yes. In the sense that he walked off
the set and quit unless a certain ultimatium was met or something, no.
> > To my knowledge O'Leary still is.
>
> Ya know how & what MOL feels is probably directly relative to where he
> stands on keeping his job.
Hehe. Michael to my knowledge, despite liking his job, has rarely
hesistated to speak his mind, even to soap press about his storylines
and his job. But no, I don't think he would ever be a "if he goes, I go"
person.
> > His "diva" demanding isn't really for him per se. He's not demanding
> > juice before a scene, being shot from one side or something. His
> > demanding, it's for "the craft".
>
> Or so he might think.
Well, yeah, that's the perspective I'm trying to bring into the
conversation here.
> > ... There are two ways of looking at it, Donna's way, aka the
> > ultimately selfish actor who refuses to be a team players or Grant's way
> > aka you can only constantly try to sell unbelievable crap for so long in
> > such an unstable environment.
>
> I've tried very hard to emphasize what's what with Grant, which is his
> temperament & choices he makes about how to proceed & when & over what. If
> it appears that I think he's a selfish actor who is refusing to be a team
> player, well, yes, ultimately I'd have to agree with that description, but
> it's not a way I would choose to describe him.
Okay, fine. It really doesn't matter to me how you would describe him,
just that is how it came across in your comments thus far based on some
of the subsequent questions and replies from fellow posters.
> This image that he's getting this punishment because he has integrity & the
> other actors do not, by comparison, or even that the creative team doesn't,
> since they're his foes, it just doesn't wash.
I'm not sure anyone really has that impression here. I _do_ think people
think that complaining about his storylines, his lines, his character's
motivations, etc., isn't really a severe enough crime to get him fired,
but I doubt anyone thinks his complaints are altruistic and only for the
good of daytime.
> He'd be doing this if he were doing Shakespeare in the Park.
Yeah, well, actors like Grant naturally gravitate to SITP, it's there
type of environment, constantly nitpicking how Shakespeare would want
each moment interpreted, it's a snooty acting fest over there :)
Bankboy18
>From: Shawn H shill#@fas.harvard.edu
>Message-id: <ci4eh7$97s$2...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu>
Thank God, another Crampton fan, i thought i was the only one.
Gary (Mindy needs to return to Springfield)
Anthony D. Langford
>>chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote:
>
>
>>Are we forgetting Melrose Place, 90210, The OC (which is just a lotta hype if
>>you ask me but it is popular with someone)? Or were you just referring to
>>lavish productions?
>
>
> They are niche shows. None of them ever (although OC is still on the air) went
> past the top 30, IIRC. Dynasty and Dallas were in the top 5, the top 3,
> sometimes #1. They were icons of an era. Melrose and 90210 generated much press
> hype, but always had a smaller audience.
>
I still don't understand how that doesn't make them soaps. Or am I
missing the point?
--
Anthony D. Langford
Creator/Writer of Covington Bay -- An Online Soap Opera
http://www.geocities.com/covingtonbayonline
Donna B
<M-CdnTQOne0...@comcast.com>, "Anthony D. Langford"
<anthonyd...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Peter J wrote:
>
> >>chaoz...@aol.comjunkbloc (Darn) wrote:
> >>Are we forgetting Melrose Place, 90210, The OC (which is just a lotta hype if
> >>you ask me but it is popular with someone)? Or were you just referring to
> >>lavish productions?
> >
> > They are niche shows. None of them ever (although OC is still on the air) went
> > past the top 30, IIRC. Dynasty and Dallas were in the top 5, the top 3,
> > sometimes #1. They were icons of an era. Melrose and 90210 generated much press
> > hype, but always had a smaller audience.
>
> I still don't understand how that doesn't make them soaps. Or am I
> missing the point?
Soaps, genre entertainment, niche programming, ... there's all this overlap.
Maybe I got lost, too.
Looking forward to the premiere of The O.C. ...
--
Donna B 8^> <*> http://homepages.nyu.edu/~meo232/sloganator/
Peter J
>
>Soaps, genre entertainment, niche programming, ... there's all this overlap.
>Maybe I got lost, too.
You both got lost. I was talking about why that era of soaps (when they were
the talk of the nation and #1 in the primetime ratings) could never return
again. People always say they wonder why those days can't return, and that was
said in this thread as well.
>
>Looking forward to the premiere of The O.C. ...
I could barely get through the first premiere, much less another one. Then
again, my primetime viewing these days is limited to Amazing Race and the L&O
with Tamara Tunie.
Shawn H
:
: ################################## shawn, i agree with you that john
: bolger would be a great recast for phillip. i liked Johns work when
: he played phillip before. shawn, do you think this is a publicity
: stunt? thanks bruce
I did at first, before following all the threads here. I don't so much
anymore.
However, I don't find it unlikely that Grant, like any other fired soap
star, won't turn up again in a few months or years, welcomed back with
open arms, so it may ultimately amount to the same thing.
Shawn
Shawn H
: > What Donna said about Judi I would completely agree with. But as for
: > putting himself before others, yes, it is definitely perceived that way
: > by the fellow actors, but Grant honestly doesn't see it that way and
: > there are some in the cast that agree with his intent, just not his
: > approach.
: I just want to point out here that there are plenty of divas in the world
: who are completely *sure* that it's not just them, being them; that it's not
: just them putting their own view ahead of others. Whether their view matches
: up with other people's, well, that's the issue, isn't it?
Isn't it understood, at least in Hollywood but probably New York as well,
that that "diva" persona is also part of what goes into giving good
performances? I've always thought of Grant as one of the rare male soap
divas (a category I'd include Zaslow and Canary in as well), guys who can
give the operatic hissy-fits just as well as some of the water-works
women (like KZ, Martha Byrne, La Slezak, etc.) we love so much.
Can he be one on-camera without being the other off-camera?
: > For a LONG time Ehlers was one of those people, but I don't
: > know if that changed.
: I think it would be best if we just leave GA's leading ladies out of it at
: this point. At any moment I can imagine fans turning on them & deciding it's
: all their fault. This is Grant's own doing.
I hope he lands on his feet, I'd watch him on any show.
: > ... There are two ways of looking at it, Donna's way, aka the
: > ultimately selfish actor who refuses to be a team players or Grant's way
: > aka you can only constantly try to sell unbelievable crap for so long in
: > such an unstable environment.
: This image that he's getting this punishment because he has integrity &
: the
: other actors do not, by comparison, or even that the creative team
: doesn't,
: since they're his foes, it just doesn't wash. He'd be doing
: this if he were
: doing Shakespeare in the Park.
Would he be doing it if the soap was good again?
Shawn
Shawn H
: up in the circus. That was made fun of, I believe. She'd never been away
: from home, much less across the country or in New York or in the north at
: all during winter & she was homesick & a little lonely & freezing & going
: through culture shock from arriving one day & going into a crazy work
: schedule the very next day - this was all fodder to make fun of her. When it
: became MORE than obvious that it wasn't funny & should be stopped - it
: instead was ratcheted up & up & up.
Sounds nightmarish. Cool to see her sticking it out so long and finding
success on other shows as well. If I could stand to watch DAYS, I might
still be enjoying her performances.
Shawn
Sarah
>
> Donna B <shall...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> : > What Donna said about Judi I would completely agree with. But as for
> : > putting himself before others, yes, it is definitely perceived that way
> : > by the fellow actors, but Grant honestly doesn't see it that way and
> : > there are some in the cast that agree with his intent, just not his
> : > approach.
>
> : I just want to point out here that there are plenty of divas in the world
> : who are completely *sure* that it's not just them, being them; that it's not
> : just them putting their own view ahead of others. Whether their view matches
> : up with other people's, well, that's the issue, isn't it?
>
> Isn't it understood, at least in Hollywood but probably New York as well,
> that that "diva" persona is also part of what goes into giving good
> performances? I've always thought of Grant as one of the rare male soap
> divas (a category I'd include Zaslow and Canary in as well), guys who can
> give the operatic hissy-fits just as well as some of the water-works
> women (like KZ, Martha Byrne, La Slezak, etc.) we love so much.
>
> Can he be one on-camera without being the other off-camera?
>From everything I've seen, Grant is a sweetheart off camera, his issues
are with filming, not people. He doesn't have feuds with his co-stars
anymore.
> : > For a LONG time Ehlers was one of those people, but I don't
> : > know if that changed.
>
> : I think it would be best if we just leave GA's leading ladies out of it at
> : this point. At any moment I can imagine fans turning on them & deciding it's
> : all their fault. This is Grant's own doing.
>
> I hope he lands on his feet, I'd watch him on any show.
>
> : > ... There are two ways of looking at it, Donna's way, aka the
> : > ultimately selfish actor who refuses to be a team players or Grant's way
> : > aka you can only constantly try to sell unbelievable crap for so long in
> : > such an unstable environment.
>
> : This image that he's getting this punishment because he has integrity &
> : the
> : other actors do not, by comparison, or even that the creative team
> : doesn't,
> : since they're his foes, it just doesn't wash. He'd be doing
> : this if he were
> : doing Shakespeare in the Park.
>
> Would he be doing it if the soap was good again?
Hard to say, the show hasn't really been "good" since he came back. If
the show was as fantastic as it had been in the 80s, based how he
behaved about the writing after the Judi & Krista fiasco was over, I'd
guess no, but who knows, he _is_ awfully picky. Some actors are like
that and IMO, while annoying for directors and writers, is their
perrogative and as you mentioned, usually are the best actors; Dustin
Hoffman comes to mind as an example ...
Donna B
<ci746g$rhb$1...@us23.unix.fas.harvard.edu>, Shawn H <shill#@fas.harvard.edu>
wrote:
> Donna B <shall...@optonline.net> wrote:
> : I just want to point out here that there are plenty of divas in the world
> : who are completely *sure* that it's not just them, being them; that it's not
> : just them putting their own view ahead of others. Whether their view matches
> : up with other people's, well, that's the issue, isn't it?
>
> Isn't it understood, at least in Hollywood but probably New York as well,
> that that "diva" persona is also part of what goes into giving good
> performances? I've always thought of Grant as one of the rare male soap
> divas (a category I'd include Zaslow and Canary in as well), guys who can
> give the operatic hissy-fits just as well as some of the water-works
> women (like KZ, Martha Byrne, La Slezak, etc.) we love so much.
>
> Can he be one on-camera without being the other off-camera?
Sure. Actors can be weird in lots of different ways. This is just one. And,
some of them aren't even very weird in any way.
> : I think it would be best if we just leave GA's leading ladies out of it at
> : this point. At any moment I can imagine fans turning on them & deciding it's
> : all their fault. This is Grant's own doing.
>
> I hope he lands on his feet, I'd watch him on any show.
I hope we all land on our feet.
> : This image that he's getting this punishment because he has integrity &
> : the
> : other actors do not, by comparison, or even that the creative team
> : doesn't,
> : since they're his foes, it just doesn't wash. He'd be doing
> : this if he were
> : doing Shakespeare in the Park.
>
> Would he be doing it if the soap was good again?
Sure. At least I think he would - no matter what.
But, it's all about fit. We're talking about creative people, who work
together & cannot do their own thing without relying on each other. High
level of trust is required. And, collaborating & questioning makes for good
process - in general. It's all about how much time & energy there is for it
& how & when it's done.
Donna B
<20040913230126...@mb-m12.aol.com>, peter...@aol.comnospam
(Peter J) wrote:
> >Donna B shall...@optonline.net wrote:
> >Soaps, genre entertainment, niche programming, ... there's all this overlap.
> >Maybe I got lost, too.
>
> You both got lost. I was talking about why that era of soaps (when they were
> the talk of the nation and #1 in the primetime ratings) could never return
> again. People always say they wonder why those days can't return, and that was
> said in this thread as well.
You can never go back home again? Soaps, US daytime soaps, have been known
for their ability to reinvent themselves over & over again. Going back isn't
even the right goal; going forward is. Yet, there is so much to be learned
from universal lessons about good story-telling.
> >Looking forward to the premiere of The O.C. ...
>
> I could barely get through the first premiere, much less another one.
Oh, I love it!!!
> Then again, my primetime viewing these days is limited to Amazing Race
> and the L&O with Tamara Tunie.
This summer my primetime viewing has been ... ... ... Okay, I can't think of
anything.
But, last year I was an avid watcher of THE SIMPSONS, ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT,
LAS VEGAS*, NYPD BLUE, ER, FRIENDS+, CSI, TRU CALLING, WONDERFALLS#, GILMORE
GIRLS^, L&O/SVU ... Oh, and, THE O.C., which got me off on this.
LAS VEGAS* - I loved the first half of the first season. Watched the
premiere & enjoyed it, but, I'm not sure if I'll make it through the second
season.
FRIENDS+ - I just hung in there.
WONDERFALLS# - I loved it. Of course it was cancelled early on.
GILMORE GIRLS^ - I loved it when it began. Last year I loved maybe half or
less of it. No idea how it will be this year. Not optimistic.
TRU CALLING won't even be on till midseason, if then, because of unexpected
problems. I'm going to check out CSI/NY because of Sinise. ARRESTED
DEVELOPMENT is the only new show from last year that I think is absolutely
great.
Off the main channels I also follow RENO 911! and now THE DAILY SHOW.
Given how bad TV is these days, it's too much TV. But, with TiVo it's easy
enough to just dump something if we decide not to watch it or even if we
watch the first 10 minutes & then bail.
This summer I tried both new primetime soaps: SUMMERLAND & NORTH SHORE &
didn't stick with either of them.
Donna B
<20040912212915...@mb-m28.aol.com>, peter...@aol.comnospam
(Peter J) wrote:
> I think the show, along with Dallas and Falcon Crest, were popular because it
> was the 80's and people wanted to see how the other half, the half they envied
> and desperately wanted to be, lived. As interest waned, the shows died. That's
> why no other primetime soaps since then have been popular. That's also why
> Knots Landing - a quality drama - outlived most of the 80's pap.
My interest in primetime soaps, then & at other times, has had zero to do
with wealth. If the characters were set in that universe, or another, it was
okay with me, as long as they were credible, in context, etc. But, I think
DALLAS in particular hit some strain of entertainment need then, on Friday
nights of all times, for people far beyond soap fans & even fans of the
somewhat soapy, to include pretty much anyone who watched TV.
Donna B
new one, too. So, 3 posts in one.
In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:40:55 GMT in Msg.#
<414639...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Donna B wrote:
> > I think it would be best if we just leave GA's leading ladies out of it at
> > this point. At any moment I can imagine fans turning on them & deciding it's
> > all their fault. ...
>
> ... I'm certainly not attempting to
> imply Beth stormed into Ellen's office and demanded Grant go or that
> anyone else did that.
And, I don't think any actor even asked for him to be fired, either.
> In the sense that he walked off
> the set and quit unless a certain ultimatium was met or something, no.
Completely agreed.
> > > ... His demanding, it's for "the craft".
> >
> > Or so he might think.
>
> Well, yeah, that's the perspective I'm trying to bring into the
> conversation here.
I'm only trying to raise the issue that the best-intentioned actor, or other
member of the creative team, can't always be objective, no matter how much
they try. So, it's likely that some battles, absolutely right & absolutely
need to be fought. Others, eh, not so much - either because they're the
wrong ones OR because they're not important enough, etc.
> Okay, fine. It really doesn't matter to me how you would describe him,
> just that is how it came across in your comments thus far based on some
> of the subsequent questions and replies from fellow posters.
I'm really unhappy with my communication on this. I don't want anyone to be
the bad guy & in trying to manage that, balance those plates, I think I've
just been a really bad busboy & broken most of them.
> > He'd be doing this if he were doing Shakespeare in the Park.
>
> Yeah, well, actors like Grant naturally gravitate to SITP, it's there
> type of environment, constantly nitpicking how Shakespeare would want
> each moment interpreted, it's a snooty acting fest over there :)
LOL!!! And, it's very worthwhile, too. It brings Shakespeare with great
players & makes it accessible to people it otherwise wouldn't.
Personally, I honestly think that GA & many other NY veteran soap actors
have brought a wealth of goodies to soaps.
In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Tue, 14 Sep 2004 00:40:56 GMT in Msg.#
<41463A...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> Donna B wrote:
> >
> > In rec.arts.tv.soaps.cbs on Sun, 12 Sep 2004 02:12:34 GMT in Msg.#
> > <4143AD...@pacbell.net>, Sarah <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Donna B wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 in Msg.#<oXI0d.174728$mD.105083@attbi_s02>, Dana Carpender
> > > > <dcar...@kivanospam.net> wrote:
> > > > > Yell at them?
...
> Well the question was asked, and I tried to answer it based on what I
> knew, that's all.
I get that, too, completely. As an actor, I think Grant knows that at times
he has thrown tantrums, or hissy fits, or whatever we want to call them,
but, I don't think any of this is about his shouting at a co-worker. NOT at
all. Ever. If there is tension involved with working with him because of
differing styles or because of things he's taking issue with where it
created tension for people involved in stories with him, that is very
different from his making any kind of direct abuse of his co-workers. I do
not think the latter applies & I don't think it would even if his vocal
chords didn't matter to him, if you see what I mean.
I've done a very poor job in this whole discussion of trying to make
proactive statements about what I thought instead of trying to react to
other people's words. And, I became very dissatisfied with what it sounded
like I meant. Maybe this is one little bit that makes that better.
Now, I've been trying to find out a little bit more out about GL [and ATWT
taping practices] ... and stuff. And, I've learned that, as a general rule,
production is not stopped, period, once taping has begun *for* a veteran
actor, that they are all too professional for that. Sure, it might get
stopped, even though we know they don't stop much, re-tape extremely rarely
if at all. Maybe the booth needs to stop tape for some reason - but very
different from what was described here, if you see what I mean.
I got the impression that the P&G soaps tolerate much less of what I'm going
to call 'actor stuff' than ABC does. And, that they tolerate less than the
West Coast soaps do, too.
Right now both ATWT & GL have rehearsals of a sort in the morning. Not on
set, in the rehearsal hall, with the director of the day, they go over
scenes & get blocking. Offset they run lines together, either in that same
rehearsal hall or some place else. On set they rehearse but just for tech,
for the booth, for the lights to be set, for anything to be changed in
blocking if it doesn't look right once they're actually on the set space &
the lights are there. Then, they tape. They used to have a rather full
rehearsal after the tech rehearsal but some years back they cut it out. [ABC
still does that rehearsal & that's apparently the rehearsal Sarah Joy Brown
spoke of missing with ATWT going so fast & having to get used to it.]
Given this stuff I've learned I have now begun to doubt that what WEEKLY
reported was true. Lessons, there are always new lessons for me to learn.
Meanwhile I'm just going to doubt, period, for now.
--
Donna B 8^> Yahoo Messenger: shallotpeel <*>
Peter J
>
>My interest in primetime soaps, then & at other times, has had zero to do
>with wealth. If the characters were set in that universe, or another, it was
>okay with me, as long as they were credible, in context, etc. But, I think
>DALLAS in particular hit some strain of entertainment need then, on Friday
>nights of all times, for people far beyond soap fans & even fans of the
>somewhat soapy, to include pretty much anyone who watched TV.
Perhaps you didn't feel this way, but many did. The fashions, the hair, the
jewels, seemed to be much of the purpose of these programs, particularly
Dynasty.
The 80's were the era of "greed is good" (whereas today we are in the era of
"greed is great for a few people, you don't deserve squat, and don't disagree
or you're unpatriotic"), and I think these shows were a part of that wish
fulfillment.
T. David Bamford
wrote:
Well said. We are racing to the bottom. Before we know it, it's just
gonna be a handful with everything and the rest will be serfs.
David, working stiff
Donna B
<20040919204459...@mb-m27.aol.com>, peter...@aol.comnospam
(Peter J) wrote:
> > Donna B shall...@optonline.net wrote:
> >My interest in primetime soaps, then & at other times, has had zero to do
> >with wealth. If the characters were set in that universe, or another, it was
> >okay with me, as long as they were credible, in context, etc. But, I think
> >DALLAS in particular hit some strain of entertainment need then, on Friday
> >nights of all times, for people far beyond soap fans & even fans of the
> >somewhat soapy, to include pretty much anyone who watched TV.
>
> Perhaps you didn't feel this way, but many did.
Yes, I know.
> The fashions, the hair, the jewels, seemed to be much of the purpose of
> these programs, particularly Dynasty.
Didn't watch it. But, I think they were a big part of the appeal to some of
fans who were not your usual soap fans, which gave them a bigger audience.
And, of course, in other ways it was something of a golden time for soaps,
period. One of the reasons that kind of popularity is elusive now, and has
been for awhile, is that so few shows get that kind of attention. Almost
everything, now, is a niche show.
> The 80's were the era of "greed is good"
Yeah. Bah. I hated the 80s. The 80s nearly killed me, in more ways than one
& one of them was its leadership.
> (whereas today we are in the era of
> "greed is great for a few people, you don't deserve squat, and don't disagree
> or you're unpatriotic"), and I think these shows were a part of that wish
> fulfillment.
Also called denial, selfishness, me generation, etc.
Dana Carpender
T. David Bamford wrote:
Which will destabilize the society, and will, eventually, change. I've
always remembered a line from The Good Earth: "There is a way when the
rich are too rich, and there is a way when the poor are too poor." The
gang currently in control would do well to remember that.
Dana
T. David Bamford
>> gonna be a handful with everything and the rest will be serfs.
Dana:
>Which will destabilize the society, and will, eventually, change. I've
>always remembered a line from The Good Earth: "There is a way when the
>rich are too rich, and there is a way when the poor are too poor." The
>gang currently in control would do well to remember that.
I don't share your optimism, but I hope you are right and I am wrong.
David, just sayin'
Donna B
<414f0ad0...@news.gwi.net>, tdbamfo...@gwi.net (T. David Bamford)
wrote:
> Dana:
> >Which will destabilize the society, and will, eventually, change. I've
> >always remembered a line from The Good Earth: "There is a way when the
> >rich are too rich, and there is a way when the poor are too poor." The
> >gang currently in control would do well to remember that.
>
> I don't share your optimism, but I hope you are right and I am wrong.
>
> David, just sayin'
Verry interesting. I thought it came from a pessimistic perspective.
But, I wanna have hope. Supposedly it springs eternal.
--
Donna B 8^> <*>
"The price of liberty is, in addition to eternal vigilance, eternal patience
with the vacuous blather occasionally expressed from behind the shield of
free speech." - Michael Shermer, in Scientific American, (June 2001)