B&B: Did James Warwick slept with Taylor ?
Likourgos James Vassiliou
Frédéric Olivier (int...@cam.org) wrote:
: Can anyone tell me if James and Taylor slept together in Big Bear where
: the house was destroyed by a storm about a year and a half ago....
Oh, you missed Taylor wondering if it was James that made the earth move
or an aftershock (it was a quake, not a storm)? In what came to be called
"Mercy Sex" on this group, saintly Taylor decided that she too, like
Mother Theresa, should spread her blessings to the needy, or as was the case
with James, the virgin. Jack and Stephanie know about it, and Taylor
thinks Ridge knows it too, since nobody told her the letter was never
delivered.
: I bet you anything this will come back.
I doubt that. While the Bell boys make sure that Brooke gets punished for
everything, including crossing the street while the light is red, Taylor
and Stephanie go unpunished. In the letter area alone, Brooke's meddling
with Ridge's letter to Caroline was revealed almost on the spot (you may
occasionally notice that Taylor fans bring that up kinda like the
Soviets always answered US accusations of Civil Rights violations with a
"yeah, but look at what you did to the indians" reply), while Stephanie's
fake letter and Taylor's admission of guilt letter were never brought to
light.
Luke
Frédéric Olivier
Can anyone tell me if James and Taylor slept together in Big Bear where
the house was destroyed by a storm about a year and a half ago....
I've miss those episodes... I only remenber Stephanie reading a letter
after about it that was written to Ridge from Taylor before she left for
the trip where she lost it... Stephanie never gave it...
Frédéric Olivier
Likourgos James Vassiliou wrote:
>
> Frédéric Olivier (int...@cam.org) wrote:
> : Can anyone tell me if James and Taylor slept together in Big Bear where
> : the house was destroyed by a storm about a year and a half ago....
>
> or an aftershock (it was a quake, not a storm)? In what came to be called
> "Mercy Sex" on this group, saintly Taylor decided that she too, like
> Mother Theresa, should spread her blessings to the needy, or as was the case
> with James, the virgin. Jack and Stephanie know about it, and Taylor
> thinks Ridge knows it too, since nobody told her the letter was never
> delivered.
>
> : I bet you anything this will come back.
>
> I doubt that. While the Bell boys make sure that Brooke gets punished for
> everything, including crossing the street while the light is red, Taylor
> and Stephanie go unpunished. In the letter area alone, Brooke's meddling
> with Ridge's letter to Caroline was revealed almost on the spot (you may
> occasionally notice that Taylor fans bring that up kinda like the
> Soviets always answered US accusations of Civil Rights violations with a
> "yeah, but look at what you did to the indians" reply), while Stephanie's
> fake letter and Taylor's admission of guilt letter were never brought to
> light.
>
> Luke
Still I'd like to know whatever happen in the big bear cabin ?
Fred.
Jeff Kersey
Frédéric Olivier <int...@cam.org> wrote:
>Likourgos James Vassiliou wrote:
>>
>>Blah, blah
>>
>> Luke
>
>
>Still I'd like to know whatever happen in the big bear cabin ?
>
You can't expect a straigh answer from Luke re: Taylor as he is a
notorious Taylor hater.
Taylor and James were trapped in the earthquake destroyed cabin. The
bridge to the cabin was out and Taylor had a sprained ankle. James was
badly hurt and couldn't walk. The temperature was subfreezing and they
had managed a small fire. They had barely survived one night and their
chances od surviving another seemed remote. In addition James was
loosing blood and Taylor had not been able to stop the bleeding.
No one knew that they had gone to the cabin. They had been out driving;
James was trying to cheerup Taylor because Ridge at left on a trip to
Paris with Brooke and Brook had essentially told Taylor that she would
seduce him there. Taylor had begged Ridge not to go. At any rate James
and Taylor had stopped at the cabin to get somehting to drink and had not
even made a fire as they did not intend to stay. They were getting ready
ot leave when the earthquake occurred.
James begged Taylor (essentially) not to let him die a virgin. She had
sex with him. James passed out; but Ridge (who had been prevented from
going to Paris by Thorne) guessed that Taylor had gone to the cabin and
showed up with the local sheriff to rescue them.
Taylor couldn't bring herselt to tell Ridge in person so wrote the letter
just before taking off for her trip to Cario -- when the plane crashed
and she was assumed dead, etc., etc., etc.
JK
Maryann
A great post. So true, so true. Especially on the Stephanie and Taylor
go unpunished part. Only Brooke pays on this soap. That's why I no
longer watch except for maybe once a week. This storyline is old and
worn out. Ridge, Stephanie and Taylor are all loosers and deserve each
other. Maybe they could send them to a island where Stephanie and Taylor
could be his love slaves and build a shrine to the all-wonderful Ridge.
Of course no electricity there so we wouldn't be able to see the daily
rituals in his honor. Oh well I'm willing to sacrifice...how about you?
Maryann
Likourgos James Vassiliou
Jeff Kersey (jeff....@amd.com) wrote:
: >Still I'd like to know whatever happen in the big bear cabin ?
: >
: Fred,
: You can't expect a straigh answer from Luke re: Taylor as he is a
: notorious Taylor hater.
Sigh. In the words of Darth Vader as he saw how easily Skywalker fell to
his trap: "Too Easy!" :)
: James was trying to cheerup Taylor because Ridge at left on a trip to
: Paris with Brooke and Brook had essentially told Taylor that she would
: seduce him there. Taylor had begged Ridge not to go. At any rate James
Except, this is so totally not true. Ridge was not in Paris at all, he
was in a frenzy looking for his good virtuous wife. Thorne went to Paris
with Brooke. But, Fred, you can not expect a straight answer from Jeff
re: Brooke, he is a known Brooke hater. ;)
And, as far as Taylor going insane because Brooke had told her that Ridge
would fall in love with her again, Gee, wasn't it just last week that the
Taylor camp was calling Brooke insecure because Taylor told her that she
slept with Ridge? But, such was the wedding of Taylor and Ridge (those
who remember him having sex with Taylor while thinking of Brooke, raise
your hands). In the words of the great nuisance herself: "a relationship
based on trust is a wonderful thing to behold." :)
Luke (Brooke, not Jedi Knight)
mpf...@mail.execpc.com
Yes, Taylor did give James his thought to be dying wish and slept with
him (no-one wants to die a virgin and Taylor being the kind soul she is
decided to help James not die a virgin). I still think that if Brooke
was in the same situation and did this out of MERCY - Stephanie would
NEVER let it rest - but in Taylor's case it was not a big deal! Ha! Ha!
Frédéric Olivier <int...@cam.org> wrote:
>Likourgos James Vassiliou wrote:
>>
>> Frédéric Olivier (int...@cam.org) wrote:
>> : Can anyone tell me if James and Taylor slept together in Big Bear where
>> : the house was destroyed by a storm about a year and a half ago....
>>
>> Oh, you missed Taylor wondering if it was James that made the earth move
>> or an aftershock (it was a quake, not a storm)? In what came to be called
>> "Mercy Sex" on this group, saintly Taylor decided that she too, like
>> Mother Theresa, should spread her blessings to the needy, or as was the case
>> with James, the virgin. Jack and Stephanie know about it, and Taylor
>> thinks Ridge knows it too, since nobody told her the letter was never
>> delivered.
>>
>> : I bet you anything this will come back.
>>
>> I doubt that. While the Bell boys make sure that Brooke gets punished for
>> everything, including crossing the street while the light is red, Taylor
>> and Stephanie go unpunished. In the letter area alone, Brooke's meddling
>> with Ridge's letter to Caroline was revealed almost on the spot (you may
>> occasionally notice that Taylor fans bring that up kinda like the
>> Soviets always answered US accusations of Civil Rights violations with a
>> "yeah, but look at what you did to the indians" reply), while Stephanie's
>> fake letter and Taylor's admission of guilt letter were never brought to
>> light.
>>
>> Luke
>
>
>Still I'd like to know whatever happen in the big bear cabin ?
>
>Fred.
Jeannie Ash
I doubt that. While the Bell boys make sure that Brooke gets punished for
> everything, including crossing the street while the light is red, Taylor
> and Stephanie go unpunished. In the letter area alone, Brooke's meddling
> with Ridge's letter to Caroline was revealed almost on the spot (you may
> occasionally notice that Taylor fans bring that up kinda like the
> Soviets always answered US accusations of Civil Rights violations with a
> "yeah, but look at what you did to the indians"
Oh THANK YOU!!
Taylor's losing her husband, being forced to bear Brooke's wishes that
she were dead, to watch her husband wiht another woman in Morocco, to
have him divorce her to go to Brooke. . . .these weren't punishment?
Luke m'luv, much as I know you believe this rot, you truly can't be that
myopic!
Keep it up, as I said, entertaining as it can be. But tell me how Brooke
has been punished, other than the constant worrry that her misdeeds will
be discovered and come back to haunt her. Not a man on the show has ever
had a clue of what she's done. Even the Bridget incident (yes I know she
didn't switch the results but her earlier indiscretions with Ridge while
married to Eric should certainly be considered as wrong--several times,
buddy, not just once in a cabin in a snowstoerm. Your little kitten is a
mite too hot to trot) was forgiven rather incredibly fast. Her
punishment? Ridge twice loved another woman more. Boo hoo. This recent
bit with the kids is the first I've seen of anything coming back around
to her.
Tally ho!
Jeannie
Jeff Kersey
lva...@tiger.lsu.edu (Likourgos James Vassiliou) wrote:
>Except, this is so totally not true. Ridge was not in Paris at all, he
>was in a frenzy looking for his good virtuous wife. Thorne went to Paris
>with Brooke
Thorne kept Ridge from going and went instead, but Taylor didn'tknow
that. He did the job quite well eventhough Rigde was certain no one but
he could do it. Didn't he just do that again, but to Brooke this time?
> But, Fred, you can not expect a straight answer from Jeff
>re: Brooke, he is a known Brooke hater. ;)
>
>
Luke,
I don't hate Brooke. I think that she would make a great second choice
if one had to choose between Taylor and Brooke (and couldn't have the
first choice).
Brooke is OK really, but B&B becomes mighty dull without Taylor!
JK
Luke Vassiliou
Jeff Kersey (jeff....@amd.com) wrote:
: Brooke is OK really, but B&B becomes mighty dull without Taylor!
Nah. Taylor is the Ross Perot of B&B. Nobody needs her, we are fine
without her, but she thinks that it makes a difference whether she
appears or not. :)
Luke (about to be flamed by Ross Perot supporters who object to my
comparing him with taylor)
Luke Vassiliou
Jeannie Ash (jk...@mail.wco.com) wrote:
: Taylor's losing her husband, being forced to bear Brooke's wishes that
: have him divorce her to go to Brooke. . . .these weren't punishment?
These were not punishment for what she has done on the show, they were her
punishment for boring us to death. :)
Brooke lost Ridge's child (back in 89) and Taylor was presumed dead (all
you mentioned were consequences of that). These were not punishment, they
were unfortunate instances (unless the Bells as the soap's omnipotent
Gods have a different opinion). Taylor has still not paid for the tryst
with James, for breaking her promise to Caroline (whose dying wish was
for Brooke to be with Ridge, not for her horny doctor to go after her
husband), and for marrying a man who never really loved her but married
her only so that his father could be happy with Brooke (and darn, she is
a therapist and yet allowed Ridge to do something so stupid and harmful
to himself).
: Luke m'luv, much as I know you believe this rot, you truly can't be that
: myopic!
I stick to the characters and the show, and do not do personal comments.
Beside, as I was raised with good manners, I have nothing to say (you
know, if you have nothing nice...). :)
Luke
Jeannie Ash
Oh hon, nothing I have said is mean. And maybe you were raised with
good manners but I think a bit thicker of a veneer would have been an
added plus. Saying you don't name call, but then using phraseology that
is the equivalent of it IS name calling.
I know, I know, we're beginning to have our own little column. I hate to
tell you I am enjoying it because I don't believe you are.
As to sticking to the story: 1) Caroline's dying wish: Please. When
did Taylor become Caroline's best friend and when did Ridge lose the
power of choice and when, oh where, oh where, were you when Ridge and
Taylor were so obviously in love on the island? No Luke, there was love
there, but you and I are diametrically opposed to reading the
relationship between Ridge and Taylor and Ridge and Brooke. I know you
somehow see Brooke and Ridge the consummate couple. I see the two of
them two comatose people, tied by sex on his side and obsession on hers.
I don't dislike Brooke. I dislike her neediness ( and I have to say that
the writer's lines lately make me want to call someone and see if they
have been reading my posts. A few of those lines were direct quotes!
NO, I'm not serious, but the coincidence is kind of eerie) with Ridge. I
have loved her with many other men, I think she is so much more
interesting. I believe Taylor and Ridge have it all: trust (cabin?
Luke, Taylor was insecure because she is not stupid. She knows Ridge has
always been sexually attracted to Brooke and at the time Brooke was
taunting her with that and the supposed child between them. ANYONE would
have been insecure, I don't care who you are. And Brooke,by the way, did
not agree to Caroline's deathbed wish. She initially told Caroline she
was committed to Eric and it was irrational. . .if Brooke could see
that, why can you not?), humor, passin and a profound respect and
awareness of each other. Taylor doesn't bore me because she is as much
intellectual as she is sensual. Brooke bores me with Ridge because she
is purely sexual and immature.
Cannot say I don't love the fireworks though between Taylor and Brooke
and Brooke and Stephanie. And that's not ganging up. Brooke has made no
real effort to secure their respect. She has been friends with Stephanie
when Stephanie has compromised for the sake of Ridge. Brooke has always
come back at Stephanie unkindly when Stephanie is not on her side. She
is so impulsive and so relentlessly irresponsible of her own actions when
she is focused on Ridge. Even those children WERE in fact used as pawns.
I will not deny she loves them, but she did play that card to get Ridge,
even while he was married to Taylor, and Brooke herself admitted she saw
the love between Ridge and Taylor. Remember when Taylor died? Brooke
knew Ridge was suffering from the loss of a deep love.
And as for my policing things: no, not at all. YOu state things to be
as they are, as facts, following the show. CAn you not agree to disagree
and accept that . . . ooops, silly me. I forgot. If we were to do that,
what would be the fun?
Have a great weekend.
Jeannie
paul kuchta
Jeff Kersey <jeff....@amd.com> wrote:
>I don't hate Brooke. I think that she would make a great second choice
>if one had to choose between Taylor and Brooke (and couldn't have the
>first choice).
>
>Brooke is OK really, but B&B becomes mighty dull without Taylor!
>
>JK
>
You know what my biggest problem with Taylor is (especially nowadays)?
It's how she gives everybody these looks like their insane. You know,
the way she crinkles up her face when someone is talking to her. She
always has this look on her face like "Are you nuts?".
By the way, Luke and JK, I enjoy your debates about Brooke and Taylor.
You both make valid points. It's interesting now that Taylor has
returned to see how everybody on this NG defends their favorite
character.
Christy
FBC Stephanie
Luke J. Vassiliou
paul kuchta <pku...@salsgiver.com> wrote:
: You know what my biggest problem with Taylor is (especially nowadays)?
: It's how she gives everybody these looks like their insane. You know,
: the way she crinkles up her face when someone is talking to her. She
: always has this look on her face like "Are you nuts?".
If you pay careful attention Christy you will see that she always looks past
the person she is talking to, and actually directs the "Are you nuts?"
look to the mirror directly facing her. :)
: By the way, Luke and JK, I enjoy your debates about Brooke and Taylor.
: You both make valid points. It's interesting now that Taylor has
I do not think we convince each other (or anybody on the group) but in our
effort to bury the other's favorite heroine under a pile of accusations
at least we offer details and little known facts that new viewers perhaps
do not know. As far as supporting one over the other, you might remember we
had a huge discussion about that on the bold-l mailing list, and most agreed
that as viewers we are influenced by two main reasons:
1. When we started watching (imagine what Brooke looked like to someone
who started in 90: a married woman going after Ridge. In 91 it was even worse,
a married woman going after a married man. The history behind Brooke and
Ridge was not experienced and reading about it is not the same as seeing it
on screen).
2. The way we are predisposed to like a character because of what the
character reminds us of and signifies for us. For me Brooke is the little
engine that could, a go-getter, woman of action not afraid to follow her
dreams. She also went through hell and suffered immensly in the hands of
Stephanie and so then her counter-attack with getting Forrester was pure
joy. I do not like her because she was a victim, but because she was
able to turn the tables on such powerful and mean people as the Forresters
were at the time they were deceiving her about BeLieF. I am sure that Taylor
fans can give you their valid reasons why they prefer Taylor (they can also
tell you what they hate in Brooke, as can I about Taylor, but like I am not
doing that here for I am trying to explain my position, not convince that it
is the right one).
Luke
Harmonie
On 31 Aug 1996, Jeannie Ash wrote:
> As to sticking to the story: 1) Caroline's dying wish: Please. When
> did Taylor become Caroline's best friend and when did Ridge lose the
> power of choice and when, oh where, oh where, were you when Ridge and
> Taylor were so obviously in love on the island?
Obviously, no, not really. Just overdramatized. It was a fluke.
> somehow see Brooke and Ridge the consummate couple. I see the two of
> them two comatose people, tied by sex on his side and obsession on hers.
Where were you when Ridge chose Brooke over Taylor after Taylor "returned"
from the dead, and took it to court and everything?? Was that for sex?? Or
was that for love? You tell me. Where were you when Brooke was going to
marry James and Ridge bended over backwards to show up at the last minute
to stop it from happening, because he *Loved* her. I don't think a man
would do all that for sex now, would you??
> I believe Taylor and Ridge have it all: trust (cabin?
Trust?? what kind of trust do you call having mercy sex with James just
because you 'thought' you were going to die?? What kind of trust is there
when you marry another man, KNOWING that you are still married to another
man in another country??!! You call that trust??
> Taylor doesn't bore me because she is as much intellectual as she is
> sensual.
What kind of intellectual person conciously leaves behind children that
love her, (and breaks Princes hearts) in Morocco? Since when
is it a smart thing to break the hearts of children? Oh, I
guess she was just too "intellectual" for their third world brains. . .
I guess it just slipped my mind that Taylor was so intellectual when
she was bashing Brooke for marring Eric, then turned around and fell
in love with him too? A person who lied to her "best friend" Stephanie who
thought Eric was developing feelings for her, when all the while Taylor
(miss Intellectual) knew it was her (Taylor) that Eric liked??!!
But I guess I just forgot that Taylor is such a selfless altruist.
> Even those children WERE in fact used as pawns.
I suppose you don't remember that BOTH Stephanie and Taylor also used
"those children" as pawns when Stephaine planned a nice little swimming
lesson with Taylor as their teacher so that she could get in good with
the kids (back when Rick was still Eric Jr-before SORAS-)
I back Luke up 100%, as I am one of the few lonely survivors of the I Hate
Taylor Club. Ridge loves Brooke. End of story.
-Harmonie
alice
Christie- I hear you on the Taylor facial expression! (crinkled up and a
look that seems to say "are you insane?" whenever anybody speaks to her.)
I've noticed this recently too and couldn't put my finger on it like you
did. Its very irritating.
Alice
Likourgos James Vassiliou
Harmonie (mel...@U.Arizona.EDU) wrote:
: Where were you when Ridge chose Brooke over Taylor after Taylor "returned"
: from the dead, and took it to court and everything?? Was that for sex?? Or
: was that for love? You tell me. Where were you when Brooke was going to
: marry James and Ridge bended over backwards to show up at the last minute
: to stop it from happening, because he *Loved* her. I don't think a man
: would do all that for sex now, would you??
And oh my God, it is not like Ridge did not tell Taylor clearly and
unequivocally that he will always see her as a close friend but it is his
obligation to tell her they will never be together again because he knows
he is in love with and committed to Brooke, making the nuisance leave
L.A. back in June.
: I back Luke up 100%, as I am one of the few lonely survivors of the I Hate
: Taylor Club. Ridge loves Brooke. End of story.
Oh, there are way too many members of that club. But, given the treatment
any Brooke fan is bound to get by some Taylor fans (and I make it clear
that I do not put everyone on the same boat) I understand why they just
do not post.
Luke
Likourgos James Vassiliou
Jeannie Ash (jk...@mail.wco.com) wrote:
: Oh hon, nothing I have said is mean. And maybe you were raised with
: added plus. Saying you don't name call, but then using phraseology that
: is the equivalent of it IS name calling.
I said I was raised with good manners, but I was *not* raised to turn the
other cheek. :)
But, I hardly think my remark was of the same force as yours.
: I know, I know, we're beginning to have our own little column. I hate to
: tell you I am enjoying it because I don't believe you are.
Nop, which is why I am not going to keep this up. Apparently, we have way
too different ideas about what is civil and what is not. And since I can
not develop that "bit thicker of a venner" (how about that phraseology as
a show of good will?) I am signing off from that particular column of our
exchanging posts.
Take Care,
Luke
Beth
Hi Jeannie,
I am an occasional lurker in this newgroup, hope you don't mind if I
interject something in this discussion.
>and when, oh where, oh where, were you when Ridge and
>Taylor were so obviously in love on the island?
I have a differing opinion on this....I think that Ridge went to that
island to find Taylor, simply becuase he was using Taylor to try to
forget about Brooke. Love? Yes, Taylor loved Ridge, always has, always
will. But Ridge's heart was with Brooke, although his body was on that
island.
Just MHO,
Beth
Jeannie Ash
Harmonie Hon,
I'm glad you back up Luke 100%, nice to know you're all part of a
warm and chummy camp. However, your arguments, like his, could so
easily be manipulated to support my side 100%. Point being: As someone -
might even have been Luke - said, both sides have strong feelings for
each character, and both sides can have some strong arguments. The weird
thing is that one show can be watched and engender completely different
summaries. There are absolutely no facts, just our personal slants.
Kind of like politics. . . no, EXACTLY like politics.
If you want to believe that Ridge's actions towards Brooke, usually done
when he's lost someone he's loved, or when he believes he's the father of
someone's baby, are the sign of love, I am of course unable to stop you.
The fact that as usual nobody on your side can see Brooke as anything
than a person who is an underdog fighting against the odds makes it very
difficult to argue. Brooke came from a middle class family, with a very
good education and the kind of looks, that in Hollywood and LA, can get
you anywhere. How ANYONE could see her as an underdog, and why SHE would
keep presenting herself as the little girl from the Valley is beyond me.
The only thing she did not start out with was the equivalent amount of
money.
Her whining and her weird (this is for you people who are suddenly so
hard up for accusations against Taylor that you're now nitpicking on one
particular expression) way of suddenly widening her eyes and looking at
people as if she cannot believe they would have said that to her -
shortly before she scrunches her face and goes into hydro weeping mode -
are very irritating. Right up there with those of you who are trying to
say that Stephanie and Taylor have been manipulative with the children
(unh uh, NO WAY those two have had anything but the interests of the
children in mind. The swimming lesson was to have Taylor help a
panicked Stephanie get a chance to be reassured about a very messed up
little Eric. Stephanie begged Taylor and Taylor reluctantly agreed.
Very different from the way Brooke has continually sighted those
children - neither the offspring of Ridge - as the reason that she and
Ridge belong together as a sacred family )and Taylor's one tryst with
James can even compare with Brooke's long affair with Ridge while married
to Eric.
As to Taylor being married when she wed Omar - c'mon guys. Once a number
of years have gone by a spouse can be declared legally dead. Taylor had
no reason to believe at the time that Ridge would be in the neighborhood
again and she was in ultra self-sacrificing mode. After a few years
Brooke and Ridge would have been legally married in the eyes of the law
and no one would have been there to tell him. I didn't like the
storyline either, but it was selfless, compared to Brooke, who has been
selfish and manipulative through her whole fiasco with Ridge. And what
kind of insensitive witch tells someone who's lost everyone and has just
returned from the dead, that no one wants her and she just needs to go
back to being dead? Brooke is beautiful and rich and (I'm taking it on
the say so of the writers because I've seen little evidence of it)
intelligent. She has no reason to be intimidated by Taylor unless she
knows taht what Taylor had with Ridge was genuine.
Ridge didn't take her to court to divorce Taylor. He had to see how the
courts viewed his two marriages. Afterward he had to decide. He chose
Brooke, because of Bridget. Brooke knew this. Now he's choosing to
marry her again, but the idea of proposing for a publicity stunt and then
saying it's make or break time, does not exactly strike me as the most
romantic and impassioned of reasons.
Hey, I don't knock great bedroom technique. She must be incredible for
him to put up with her paranoia and her clinginess and her really
outrageous dress taste. She ain't white trash, but she's sure not class,
either.
I stand by my theory. Ridge's link to Brooke has been sex. Now that
Brooke was starting to get better he's liking her better, but it's Grant
who is bringing this out in her, not Ridge.
Funny, that.
Your turn in the battle. Go ahead, I know I won't have convinced any
diehard Brooke fans.
_____________________________________________________________________
Harmonie said:
>
>I back Luke up 100%, as I am one of the few lonely survivors of the I Hate
>Taylor Club. Ridge loves Brooke. End of story.
>
>-Harmonie
>
Jeannie Ash
Tuulia J. Fuller
Very interesting reading, but it would be easier to see why all the
arguments if Ridge were worth fighting over. He is certainly no lottery
win, not even a county-fair blue ribbon...
He and Brooke deserve each other in their emptiness. Meanwhile, read
'Butter Battle Book' by Dr.Seuss. ;-)
paul kuchta
>any Brooke fan is bound to get by some Taylor fans (and I make it clear
>that I do not put everyone on the same boat) I understand why they just
>do not post.
>
That's exactly the reason why I don't post about Brooke. I would
just get tired of trying to defend her, just as I am getting tired
of reading all the posts about Taylor/Brooke. The way I see it,
everyone is just banging their head against the wall.
How about if everyone just agree's to disagree? ;)
Christy
FBC Stephanie
Jeff Kersey
paul kuchta <pku...@salsgiver.com> wrote:
>
>
>How about if everyone just agree's to disagree? ;)
>
Christy,
I second the motion. There really isn't any point to the continued
Brooke/Taylor fan's feud.
JK
472...@xavier.xu.edu
> A great post. So true, so true. Especially on the Stephanie and Taylor
> go unpunished part. Only Brooke pays on this soap. That's why I no
> longer watch except for maybe once a week. This storyline is old and
> worn out. Ridge, Stephanie and Taylor are all loosers and deserve each
> other. Maybe they could send them to a island where Stephanie and Taylor
> could be his love slaves and build a shrine to the all-wonderful Ridge.
> Of course no electricity there so we wouldn't be able to see the daily
> rituals in his honor. Oh well I'm willing to sacrifice...how about you?
>
> Maryann
FBC Thorne on:
Maryann,
I love your idea. Getting my egotistical, half-witted brother, and the
harem of LA women, who, God knows why, adore him out of town, is just what I
need so that I can have a life. As a matter of fact I think I'll give them
a parting gift: A tape player that runs on rechargable batteries complete
with double casette set of "The Greatest Hits of Thorne and Macy."
FBC Thorne off.
Rick
Jeannie Ash
Luke wrote:
>Nop, which is why I am not going to keep this up. Apparently, we have way
>too different ideas about what is civil and what is not. And since I can
>not develop that "bit thicker of a venner" (how about that phraseology as
>a show of good will?) I am signing off from that particular column of our
>exchanging posts.
>
It's not a question of civil, it is a question of veneer. But I'm
already there. Retired as of Sunday. What passes for civil on either
side was very nearly harassment and frankly, though I don't believe you
joined in the fray, both sides apparently think the other is downright
barbaric from what I could see. I dropped off of this five months ago
because my opinions about people's "opinions" were taken as personal
attacks and since the differentiation apparently still seems to be
difficult to grasp I think there shall be no continuation of my posting
either.
I would also appreciate it if those of you who want to post something
back at me that is not particularly affectionate would refrain. My
mailbox is not particularly happy to receive so many scathing retorts.
My apologies if the veneers have not been thick enough, but I sincerely
hope the group . . . oh skip it. As Christy or Jeff said, it's like
hittinga brick wall and yes, we've all better things to do.
Best of luck to all,
Jeannie
>
>Take Care,
>
>
>
>Luke
paul kuchta
Jeannie Ash <jk...@mail.wco.com> wrote:
>
>It's not a question of civil, it is a question of veneer. But I'm
>already there. Retired as of Sunday. What passes for civil on either
>side was very nearly harassment and frankly, though I don't believe you
>joined in the fray, both sides apparently think the other is downright
>barbaric from what I could see. I dropped off of this five months ago
>because my opinions about people's "opinions" were taken as personal
>attacks and since the differentiation apparently still seems to be
>difficult to grasp I think there shall be no continuation of my posting
>either.
>
>I would also appreciate it if those of you who want to post something
>back at me that is not particularly affectionate would refrain. My
>mailbox is not particularly happy to receive so many scathing retorts.
>My apologies if the veneers have not been thick enough, but I sincerely
>hope the group . . . oh skip it. As Christy or Jeff said, it's like
>hittinga brick wall and yes, we've all better things to do.
>
>
>Best of luck to all,
>
>Jeannie
>>
And, I would like to add one more final footnote in closing. I
found it to be ironic that on yesterdays show (9/3), when Taylor
and Brooke were arguing, they both brought up alot of history...
and they both had valid points. Taylor has made mistakes, and
Brooke has made mistakes. And then, at the end of the argument.
Taylor finally said in exasperation something like "why are we
bringing all this up again? It's all ancient history!"
I had to laugh, because I thought of this NG and all the flaming
thats been going on between Brooke and Taylor fans.
Christy
472...@xavier.xu.edu
In article <50dsj6$8...@news.wco.com>, Jeannie Ash <jk...@mail.wco.com> writes:
> Harmonie Hon,
>
> I'm glad you back up Luke 100%, nice to know you're all part of a
> warm and chummy camp.
Yep.
> However, your arguments, like his, could so
> easily be manipulated to support my side 100%. Point being: As someone -
> might even have been Luke - said, both sides have strong feelings for
> each character, and both sides can have some strong arguments. The weird
> thing is that one show can be watched and engender completely different
> summaries. There are absolutely no facts, just our personal slants.
There's facts, its just that both sides tend to have tunnel vision. Brooke is
not perfect agreed, but Luke is definetly right that Taylor and Stephanie have
hypocritical double standards running in regard to Brooke. Brooke gets
punished for every little thing. Perfect Steph and Taylug are never in the
wrong. NOT!
> Kind of like politics. . . no, EXACTLY like politics.
Ooh, that was ugly. But not entirely untrue.
> If you want to believe that Ridge's actions towards Brooke, usually done
> when he's lost someone he's loved, or when he believes he's the father of
> someone's baby, are the sign of love, I am of course unable to stop you.
I don't believe they are love. However, that says more about Ridge than
Brooke. I wish Brooke would get together with Grant, he's much the better
man for her. If it wasn't for my love of Macy, I think the best possible
man for Brooke would be Thorne. Taylug is welcome to The Swamp Thing.
> The fact that as usual nobody on your side can see Brooke as anything
> than a person who is an underdog fighting against the odds makes it very
> difficult to argue. Brooke came from a middle class family, with a very
> good education and the kind of looks, that in Hollywood and LA, can get
> you anywhere. How ANYONE could see her as an underdog, and why SHE would
> keep presenting herself as the little girl from the Valley is beyond me.
> The only thing she did not start out with was the equivalent amount of
> money.
>
Looks can get you alot of places, but not into the high class society of
Beverly Hills if you have no money and not as CEO of a major fashion
company unless you have intelligence and class to go with them. Brooke
earned her way to the top, every step.
> Her whining and her weird (this is for you people who are suddenly so
> hard up for accusations against Taylor that you're now nitpicking on one
> particular expression) way of suddenly widening her eyes and looking at
> people as if she cannot believe they would have said that to her -
> shortly before she scrunches her face and goes into hydro weeping mode -
> are very irritating.
Sorry this doesn't ring any bells for me. Don't know what expression your
talking about.
> Right up there with those of you who are trying to
> say that Stephanie and Taylor have been manipulative with the children
> (unh uh, NO WAY those two have had anything but the interests of the
> children in mind.
PLEASE! Neither one of them is even related to the children! Stephanie
uses them to get to Eric, Taylor uses them to get to Ridge. I don't deny
they love the kids, but they do use them.
> The swimming lesson was to have Taylor help a
> panicked Stephanie get a chance to be reassured about a very messed up
> little Eric. Stephanie begged Taylor and Taylor reluctantly agreed.
> Very different from the way Brooke has continually sighted those
> children - neither the offspring of Ridge - as the reason that she and
> Ridge belong together as a sacred family )and Taylor's one tryst with
> James can even compare with Brooke's long affair with Ridge while married
> to Eric.
Oh yes. I was particularly impressed with how Stephanie had the best interests
of the children at heart when she convinced Eric to sue for custody behind
Brooke's back, had their mother put in jail, etc, etc. Oh, I forgot she
was under the infleuence of mercury at the time which excuses her actions.
Never mind that why after Brooke went to her arch-enemy in the hospital and
helped pull her out of her depression, Stephanie went right back to treating
her like you-know-what has not been explained. I can't really argue about
the marriage with Eric because I wasn't watching when that happened and don't
know the history enough to comment.
> As to Taylor being married when she wed Omar - c'mon guys. Once a number
> of years have gone by a spouse can be declared legally dead. Taylor had
> no reason to believe at the time that Ridge would be in the neighborhood
> again and she was in ultra self-sacrificing mode.
Which is exactly why Taylor's character is so annoying. She always pulls
these self-sacrificing things, like having "mercy sex" with James so he
wouldn't die a virgin, not telling Ridge she's alive, ending her romance
with Eric for Stephanie's sake, etc, etc, etc. This is not only self-
sacrificing, its called martyrdom. Its a sickness and it has more to do
with feeding Taylor's ego and pathetic need to make everyone feel sorry for
her than true altruistic intentions. Taylor feeds off of everyone admiring
how wonderfully unselfish she is. It gives her an ego-trip and makes her feel
superior to people like Brooke, who go after what they want regardless of what
other people think. I'll take Brooke any day, at least when she gets bitchy,
she's honest about it.
> After a few years
> Brooke and Ridge would have been legally married in the eyes of the law
> and no one would have been there to tell him. I didn't like the
> storyline either, but it was selfless, compared to Brooke, who has been
> selfish and manipulative through her whole fiasco with Ridge.
To restate my last paragraph, so is Taylor, its just that Brooke is honest about
her actions and Taylor isn't.
> And what
> kind of insensitive witch tells someone who's lost everyone and has just
> returned from the dead, that no one wants her and she just needs to go
> back to being dead?
Okay, that wasn't one of Brooke's better moments, but I think if my spouse's
ex returned from the dead, I probably wouldn't be on my best behavior either.
Particularly since said ex could have avoided the whole situation by coming
forward months ago.
> Brooke is beautiful and rich and (I'm taking it on
> the say so of the writers because I've seen little evidence of it)
> intelligent. She has no reason to be intimidated by Taylor unless she
> knows taht what Taylor had with Ridge was genuine.
I think if I had Taylor AND Stephanie breathing down my neck every minute
I'd be a little insecure too.
> Ridge didn't take her to court to divorce Taylor. He had to see how the
> courts viewed his two marriages. Afterward he had to decide. He chose
> Brooke, because of Bridget. Brooke knew this. Now he's choosing to
> marry her again, but the idea of proposing for a publicity stunt and then
> saying it's make or break time, does not exactly strike me as the most
> romantic and impassioned of reasons.
He chose to stay with Brooke out of love (or as close to love as the Ego King
can get). He did it also for the children, but that wasn't the main reason.
I don't like the publicity stunt idea either, but again, that reflects more
on Ridge than Brooke. Personally I think Ridge is too full of himself
to feel real love for any woman.
> Hey, I don't knock great bedroom technique. She must be incredible for
> him to put up with her paranoia and her clinginess and her really
> outrageous dress taste.
I'm sure she is. And BTW, Brooke usually looks sensational. Personally my
favorite outfit was the torn white thing she wore when she lost in Barbados.
:-) Went great with her perfect nails too. :-) True, her office dress isn't
the most appropriate, but I think there's an unwritten rule in soap land that
no female can dress appropriately for the office.
> She ain't white trash, but she's sure not class, either.
If Stephanie and Taylor are your definition of class, I'll take white trash.
> I stand by my theory. Ridge's link to Brooke has been sex. Now that
> Brooke was starting to get better he's liking her better, but it's Grant
> who is bringing this out in her, not Ridge.
I agree 100% and hope that Brooke dumps Idiot Man and finds love with a man
who can really make her happy, namely Grant.
> Funny, that.
>
> Your turn in the battle. Go ahead, I know I won't have convinced any
> diehard Brooke fans.
Nope you didn't. But hey its fun arguing with you. So, you have the floor.
Feel free to reply.
Rick
Member of "Taylor Haters Anonymous"
Hi my name is Rick and I hate Taylor Hayes Forrester. :-)
"I came here to say that I do not recognize anyone's right to even one minute
of my life."-Howard Roark in the Fountainhead
Jeff Kersey
472...@xavier.xu.edu wrote:
>
>Which is exactly why Taylor's character is so annoying. She always pulls
>these self-sacrificing things, Taylor feeds off of everyone admiring
>how wonderfully unselfish she is. It gives her an ego-trip and makes her feel
>superior to people like Brooke, who go after what they want regardless of what
>other people think.
But hey its fun arguing with you. So, you have the floor.
>Feel free to reply.
>
>Rick
>
>Member of "Taylor Haters Anonymous"
>
>Hi my name is Rick and I hate Taylor Hayes Forrester. :-)
>
Rick,
I see little point in arguing with you. I think that you read things
into Taylor's character's character that the writers never wrote or
intended to be implied. I see nothing int he scripts to indicate that
Taylor is intended to be anything other than truly unselfish.
Your take on Taylor's unselfishness being phoney is typical of a
conservative: anyone whose prime agenda isn't their own bottom line, is
ceratin not to be real. Then the next stept is to try to find something
in their behavior to prove that they are just as selfish as he believes
evryone is bound to be.
Sorry (not really) to inject politics into this, but that is my take
when I see the attempt to read somehting so unreal into Taylor's
character. If you don't like "do-gooders" just say so; as a natter of
fact, I think that you have.
I didn't like Brooke when I first started watching B&B because of her
tratment of Taylor. I have since seen that Brooke is frequently the
victom of the Forrester's actions, and that she is not a bad person. But
I have still not been able to warmup to her as I tried to do when I
thought that Taylor was truly gone.
Brooke is still just OK in my book. She is a less appealing character
than Taylor and is certainly less beautiful. She has a great figure,
though. Clothes (any) look great on Katherine Kelly Lang. I don't think
that the clothes she wears to the office are inappropiate. She is, after
all, the CEO of a fashion house -- in LA where almost anything goes.
JK
Likourgos James Vassiliou
: 472...@xavier.xu.edu wrote:
: >
: >Which is exactly why Taylor's character is so annoying. She always pulls
: >these self-sacrificing things, Taylor feeds off of everyone admiring
: >how wonderfully unselfish she is. It gives her an ego-trip and makes her feel
: >superior to people like Brooke, who go after what they want regardless of what
: >other people think.
And yet you have to wonder how self-sacrificing they are. Are we talking
about cheating on Ridge with James? No, that can't be that. Maybe the
Morocco incident? Well, I may be a degree sort of Taylor in councelling
(no Ph.D there for me), but (and since she has been analyzing Brooke's
behavior recently) let's go into that. Sacrifice means sacrifice. Taylor
subconsciously wanted to stay in Morocco, even before she found out about
Brooke and Ridge's wedding. The long amnesia is certainly an indication
of that. What was there for her back in L.A.? A shaky marriage with no
trust (she constantly thought Ridge was cheating on her, and indeed once
Ridge even made love to her thinking of Brooke), and one she had just
demolished with her tryst. Then, she finds out about the wedding, and her
biggest fear is validated: Ridge married her thinking as an early father's
day present for Eric, to save his dad's wedding.
But then, an opportunity arises: James finds her, and buys her martyr
stunt. He can be a witness to that, and spread the story of her great
sacrifice for Ridge. Hey, that will make all (and Stephanie whom I am
sure Taylor feared) forget the mercy sex and also convince them that as
the ultimate altruist Taylor is to be rewarded with Ridge.
Thus she flies back to L.A. to see her dad and immediately crosses
paths with everyone in L.A who knew her, making sure (in grand Taylor
fashion) that -they- recognize her, so that they will never suspect she
wants to be recognized. But, her plan failed once Ridge proved once and
for all that he'd rather take Brooke, flaws and all. By selling herself
as a prime candidate for canonization, Taylor got the fate Saints are
supposed to get: celibacy. :)
Luke
--
A serious man in search of a funny signature