OLTL:bashing
Julie Clark
Antonio and Andy, are on maybe once a week? And how m many timemes DID Vicki tell somebody that
she "was abused...sexually"? Get a life and get over yourseelf.They should name t he show
"Antonio to Live" and it'd get a lot better ratings. Alright-do Bo and Nora only live off beer
and junk food? Notice how they haven't thought of Rachel since she was checked in to the
looney-bin. Oh have you noticed how passionate Clint and Carlota's kisses are. If there were
sound effects, I suppose they'd be mmmmmmmmmmmm and that's itit. I wish Clint's little wig would
fall off one day. Remember when they'd put the blender commercial right aafter Vicki's crazy
scenes? "If you spent your whole life in the kitchen, you'd develope multiple personallities,
too" Are they implyning that because Vicki's whole life wwas in the kitchen +((look at that w
waste-line) she got so wacko? And remember, she married Sloan becausee he reminded her of her
father, WHOA! Perversion. When you think about it, D Joey had sex with Dorian who had sex with
Victor who had sex with Vicki which means Dorian has had sex with Vicki, and Joey has had sex with
his mother! WHEE! What about Maggie's father?! Why would she become a nun, now she'll be in his
proffesion. And how bout Tina, following in the good old family tree of Vicki and Victor, she's
about as obnoxious as you can get. If Tina reminds me of a guinea pig, and Jessica of a hamster,
what does that make Vicki? I think I'll let you use your imagination. One more thing I thought
of-- if this were real life, Javier with all his drugs would have aAIDS, making Linda positive,
making Antonio positive, therefore Andy positive. NNow that would be one hell of a story line.
Angela Earlye
: How is it that Marty seems to be on OLTL every day while the people we
: week?
Or RJ - but with him we don't even get that once a week luxury. Or
Carlotta or Eddie or Nigil or how about the doorman at the Palace
Hotel...even he is preferable to watching the Martyr.
<apology to those who saw part of this in E-Mail but I can't even work up
enough interest to write something new>
Although I found her to be a totally self absorbed, unsympathetic woman
before the rape, I empathized greatly with Marty during the rape story.
And I can't tell you how much it upset me when MM basically undermined
the whole story by continuing on to phase II - (the terrorizing and
continued victimization of women as the hosptial rapes were used as a
plot device to redeem Todd - the women were secondary in the story). But
I let it go as Marty seemed to put it behind her after they dragged
Powell off to the looney bin. But MM wouldn't let it rest....I once
again had to pick up my soapbox as MM turned Marty and Todd into cosmic
buddies (phrase III). And now we are in phase IV as Marty will now have
to deal with the Widow Manning and due to circumstances of his death she
will now be forever linked to her rapist. So where she could have grown
many times over, she has instead become a perpetual victim since her rape.
So the broader issues around her character always put me on her side
despite the fact that I never really cared for her. No
more.I find her to be a long suffering, humorless, weak, whiney, self
destructive bore plus she's now turned into a first rate liar. And the
fact that she's on my screen practically every day has only intensified
that for me.
And I really hope I'm not supposed to feel sorry for her and long for her
to get with her true love PaTIG if she marries Dylan. Looking beyond
CD's lack of acting skills to the character - Dylan has done nothing to
deserve what Marty is doing to him. How I wish Antonio would have told
him - then I could have the joy of watching HIM walk out on her during
the ceremony. Of course she would have milked that for sympathy for
months as well.
She could escape her martyrdom if she realized that maybe she didn't want
to be with PaTIG but she had feelings for him and it would be unfair to
marry Dylan. But something tells me the perpetual victim will win out
and we will be foreced to watch her in her martyr mode for another six
months. But what else is new.
--
Angela
Angela Earlye
Now to respond to the rest of your note since I went off on a Martyr rant.
: They should name t he show "Antonio to Live" and it'd get a lot better
: ratings.
LOL
Or maybe they should just call it what it is "Three Boring Lives to Live"
until we get more than one story going. Although with Blair in the mix
now, make that Four BLT. One good this is that phase 1 is over...and phase 2
will probably focus more on Carlo/Alex and Asa. I can live with that!!!
Can't wait to see how Renee fits in as well. I think she will also
benefit from a return of Carlo. Yippee.
: Alright-do Bo and Nora only live off beer and junk food?
They seem to....which gives me hope as the combination pizza with
pineapple is a staple in my diet!
: Notice how they haven't thought of Rachel since she was checked in to
In a few throwaway lines they've kept us up to date with Rachel's
progress. The last mention said that she would be up for visitors soon
and that she was doing well.
: One more thing I thought of-- if this were real life, Javier with all
; his drugs would have aAIDS, making Linda positive, making Antonio positive,
: therefore Andy positive. NNow that would be one hell of a story line.
I don't think Javier is an IV drug user. But start off that same
storyline with Asa, Bo, Max, or Tina and half the town would be devastated.
--
Angela
CrysKW
writes:
> But MM wouldn't let it rest....I once
>again had to pick up my soapbox as MM turned Marty and Todd into cosmic
>buddies (phrase III). And now we are in phase IV as Marty will now have
>to deal with the Widow Manning and due to circumstances of his death she
>will now be forever linked to her rapist. So where she could have
grown
>many times over, she has instead become a perpetual victim since her
rape.
That's one thing that I find strange....now I know Marty will never forget
the
rape, but in MM's story, Marty and Todd talked it out and Marty was able
to forgive Todd (I only say that because of her okaying him to come and
pick her up in Ireland and giving him that Celtic cross for courage). So
Marty forgave Todd and she was ready to get her life back on track--by
going to Ireland to sever ties with Aunt Kiki was what she thought would
be a step in the right direction....she meets Patrick...another step that
we thought would be in the right direction to perhaps sever ties with her
rapist. How wrong we were. Now, she has to deal with who you said,
Widow Manning.
>So the broader issues around her character always put me on her side
>despite the fact that I never really cared for her. No
>more.I find her to be a long suffering, humorless, weak, whiney, self
>destructive bore plus she's now turned into a first rate liar. And the
>fact that she's on my screen practically every day has only intensified
>that for me.
See, that's the thing that I find so wrong. I agree with you about Marty
and how I really don't care what happens to her now, but when you think
about it, it's really sickening that we actually have been led in this
direction. We should've been saying this about Todd THE RAPIST, not
Marty. Instead we were fed a story for his redemption and most believed
it but Marty still has to suffer for it and be perceived as a whiny,
whoring,
lying, manipulative woman because of it. Now I never saw the actual rape
storyline, I came in after it, but from all I've read, Todd was vicious in
it.
It's sad that we all (or most) ended up liking Todd but hate Marty.
>She could escape her martyrdom if she realized that maybe she didn't want
>to be with PaTIG but she had feelings for him and it would be unfair to
>marry Dylan. But something tells me the perpetual victim will win out
>and we will be foreced to watch her in her martyr mode for another six
>months. But what else is new.
I am hoping that with the two new writers coming in, both woman, they
will change the direction of this storyline and give Marty some dignity.
Of course it'll be too late to change Marty's wedding decision, and I
don't
know how they could dig themselves out of it without hurting Dylan in
the process--once again making her seem ruthless in her feelings for
others. (Unless of course, they could take the easy way out and have
Dylan get run over by a truck or something) I think it's time that Marty
has a storyline that could show her having some strength...show a
woman that has made something of her life by being able to overcome
all that has happened to her. That would be a storyline worth watching
in my opinion, even if Patrick isn't included in it, because that would
still
be a link to her rapist in a small way. Maybe it's time somebody start
writing for Marty that will give us all a reason to like her instead of
hating her.
Joan0328
writes:
>....I find her to be a long suffering, humorless, weak, whiney, self
>>destructive bore plus she's now turned into a first rate liar. And the
>>fact that she's on my screen practically every day has only intensified
>>that for me.
>
>See, that's the thing that I find so wrong. I agree with you about Marty
>and how I really don't care what happens to her now, but when you think
>about it, it's really sickening that we actually have been led in this
>direction. We should've been saying this about Todd THE RAPIST, not
>Marty. Instead we were fed a story for his redemption and most believed
>it but Marty still has to suffer for it and be perceived as a whiny,
>whoring,
>lying, manipulative woman because of it. Now I never saw the actual rape
>storyline, I came in after it, but from all I've read, Todd was vicious
in
>it.
>It's sad that we all (or most) ended up liking Todd but hate Marty.
>
>
Well, there's the problem right there: you came into the movie -- or in
this case, storyline -- a little too late to understand Marty in her
totality. Before the rape, she was a pretty bad character, although
always interestingly conflicted. She was introduced as a Lupus patient
who rejected her treatment (drinking, late nights, loose living). She
then proceeded to act out in various small law-breaking ways until she was
brought, via a sentence of community service, into the community center
then run by Andrew Carpenter. She behaved very badly there, leaving
suicide hot-line people on hold and such, until she developed a fixation
on the Revmeister. When he rejected her, she spread a vicious rumor that
he was a molestor of teenage boys -- need I go on? there's more, but you
get the picture.
The point is that it was not the rape that made many of us dislike Marty.
On the contrary, many of us reluctantly began to like her for her spunk in
getting through it, and following through with the prosecution of the
three rapists -- all at great personal cost. The humanizing of Todd,
however that is viewed, was not where her character began to degenerate,
however. I trace that to the death of Suede Pruitt and its aftermath. My
real problem with her now, and the reason why I have little or no sympathy
for her, has absolutely nothing to do with Todd or the rape, and
everything to do with the way history, once again, has been rewritten in
order to turn her into a butter-wouldn't-melt- in-her-mouth,
pooka-bearing, angel-of-mercy paragon of virtues. She is not. She's a
formerly interesting, formerly bad girl who has turned into a whiny,
professional martyr. I don't like that, and if I have to root for anyone
these days, I'll root for Blair.
Tante Babe (until the Pig wins the Oscar)
FOC Carlo Hesser
CEO, FOC Carlotta Inc.
FOC Jean Randolph
FOC Andy, Andy's Doggone Doggedness
Angela Earlye
: writes:
: >See, that's the thing that I find so wrong. I agree with you about Marty
: >and how I really don't care what happens to her now, but when you think
: >about it, it's really sickening that we actually have been led in this
: >direction. We should've been saying this about Todd THE RAPIST, not
: >Marty. Instead we were fed a story for his redemption and most believed
: >it but Marty still has to suffer for it and be perceived as a whiny,
: >whoring,
You misunderstand me. The rape made me empathize with her despite the
fact that I couldn't stand her. And I "stood by her" as MM humanized
Todd and turned her into a shrew. My dislike for Martyr has nothing to
do with Todd as in every single instance when the two of them were pitted
against each other I took HER side.
And for the record - I didn't love reformed Todd. I loved evil Todd who
was stalking people and swearing revenge. I didn't like "I'm going to get
back at everybody who did me wrong whining Todd after he got the Lord
fortune." Becuase I was watching from day one and nobody did him wrong. He
got first
class treatment when he hit town. He was the criminal but by the end he
was treating everbody like so much dirt underneath his shoe because the
people he hurt didn't rush to embrace him now that he was rich. I'm glad
"that" Todd is gone. RH, however, impressed me greatly. The man could
turn even the most ordinary scene into something fascinating.
Back to Martyr..Before the rape...Martyr was not a likeable person... but
was interesting. The rape was graphic and horrible. How could anyone
not sympathize. Yet I still cringed a little during the rape storyline
while she thanked all the little people every single show. Redemption by
rape - a soap staple that I HATE! (Natlie AMC, Julia AMC). I applauded
when she got the evidence to send Todd to jail. I understood her outrage
when she tried to keep him there, WHERE HE BELONGED.
But...the whole Martyr/Andrew "BUT NOTHING HAPPENED" episode - dependent
back
into the martyrdom role is what turned me off again. And I can't believe
Cassie let her have that sorry reception in the rectory. Then it was the
demands that Dylan quit at the Angel Square community center because she
didn't like it and it was dangerous. Never mind that his sister had just
been killed yet had given her blessing to what he was doing. And now every
time the PTB put the words that Dylan is safe in her mouth I laugh.
Instead of doing the right thing -which IMO means MOT marrying a man who
has done nothing but support her and who only ask that he not be lied to -
she once again thinks only of what SHE wants. Me, me, me! And with each
new lie I hate her more. This character is simply not heroine material -
no matter HOW hard the PTB try to insist that she is....and she's
certainly not "let's see her face every day" material. Forget romance, they
need to stick her face in a book for the next two years so that when she
becomes a doctor I won't roll my eyes with disbelief everytime she
mumbles some medical jargon.
--
Angela
Angela Earlye
: however. I trace that to the death of Suede Pruitt and its aftermath. My
: real problem with her now, and the reason why I have little or no sympathy
: everything to do with the way history, once again, has been rewritten in
: order to turn her into a butter-wouldn't-melt- in-her-mouth,
: pooka-bearing, angel-of-mercy paragon of virtues. She is not. She's a
: formerly interesting, formerly bad girl who has turned into a whiny,
: professional martyr. I don't like that, and if I have to root for anyone
: these days, I'll root for Blair.
Yes! Yes! Yes! - except the Blair part<G>! Can't stand her much these
days either. Blair can give Marty a run for the martyrdom award when it
suits her---but then again at least she's not whiney about it.
--
Angela
Brenda Moran
With Disney now co-owner of ABC, OLTL is the 1st daytimer that will
be going through some drastic changes.
Head writer (Malone?) is gone!
Many characters will be axed, inlcuding one with a new condo......
Be on the lookout for a new look.
Brenda
aka IshtarLHP@aol.com
Banks) writes:
>I may be alone here, but I liked the old Marty much better than the
>new one.
No kidding. Her current behavior really gives one pause for thought
on the subject of Peer Pressure.
Ellen C. Banks
If "many characters" will be axed, I'll no longer watch OLTL. I've
come to like most of the characters, but nothing would make me
watch if every character that I care about is gone.
Mandibles
: If "many characters" will be axed, I'll no longer watch OLTL. I've
: come to like most of the characters, but nothing would make me
: watch if every character that I care about is gone.
Hear, hear! I think most of the chars. on OLTL are, in themselves, great
creations. They, like the show itself, suffer from lack of quality
writing. Wanna bash OLTL? Blame TPTB! They're wasting an awful lot of talent.
I used to love AMC until they axed chars. like Alec and Arlene. I know
the actors often leave when their contracts are up but while they've got
'em, they oughta write "for" them. Case in point: Marty Saybroooke. The
char. has so much potential and Susan Haskell is a wonderful actress.
Sadly, we're not getting to see her work much on-screen magic these days.
The flipside: Andy Harrison. She was one of the most "blah" chars. on
OLTL last year and only after the writers gave her a real storyline did
the char. (and the actress) start to shine.
Let's hope, though, that the new team of head writers doesn't just up and
tear down everything from the MM days. Yes, the Marty story needs work
but they shouldn't trash such unique, innovative threads as Patrick's
poetry recitations, Andy/Antonio's troubled, inter-ethnic relationship
and the whole Angel Square bit. In fact, I'd like to see more of Angel
Square. It's the most happening part of town and really, haven't we seen
enough of The Palace dining room?
--
Mandibles
gs0...@panther.gsu.edu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOC Andy Unlimited, CEO * FOC Kelly Unlimited, Kosmically Kool Kelly
FOC Marty Unlimited, The Freewheelin' Marty Saybrooke * FOC Drew * FOC The SUN
Shareholder, FOCs Carlotta and Antonio, Inc. * Official OLTL CyberLP Compiler
Ramtha/High Priestess, First Church of Blair Daimler,
Our Lady of Perpetual Funny Faces Congregation
FAC Louie * LCAS, Liza's Lack of Ethics * Your SPERM Bartender
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SturdyCIyd
writes:
<<Brenda Moran (dz...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote:
<<: With Disney now co-owner of ABC, OLTL is the 1st daytimer that will
>>>>>>>Please do tell me that Mssrs. Eisner and Ovitz are brilliant enough
to
>realize that 'Dallas" ended many years ago and The Bukey Boys should be
>riding out of town soon on their "asses" ! Viki, Renee, and Nora need
>REAL men in their lives, not cartoon cowboys who are doing everything
>cosmetically possible to try to ward off the inevitable! At least when
>the dialogue gets slow, we fans can try to guess what Loreal or Clairol
>mixture Clint is wearing that day!
That seems a little harsh to me. Without the Buchanan men, OLTL might as
well be BH90210! Age is not a bad thing, if one is allowed to achieve it
with grace and respect. And one can do wonders with "cartoons", given the
proper writers, right Blandie uh, er, Andy?
As far as which characters should be axed, I think you may not be far off
the mark...I hear Oribe is quite a character....has he bought a condo
recently?
-Call Me Clyde
Eurydice
says:
>
>That seems a little harsh to me. Without the Buchanan men, OLTL might as
>well be BH90210! Age is not a bad thing, if one is allowed to achieve it
>with grace and respect. And one can do wonders with "cartoons", given the
Ummmm, aging w/ grace and respect? Have you taken a look at Clint's rug
lately? :) Or at his "Just For Men" colored beard, mustache, and sideburns?
Maybe it worked for Ronald Reagan, but the attempt to "reverse age" Clint just
makes him look even older and sorrier.
---Suze
(CEO, FOC Antonio, Unlimited)
Angela Earlye
: If "many characters" will be axed, I'll no longer watch OLTL. I've
: come to like most of the characters, but nothing would make me
: watch if every character that I care about is gone.
Ellen..I feel much the way you do...the characters are fine as is.
That's not the problem.
I didn't make it through the traumatic Gloria Monty return where she axed
about 9 characters and brought on Eckerts. I tune in now and then to
GH..and follow a story now and again..but that show was my favorite for
years and I don't think it ever will be again.
--
Angela
singh
wrong? Major corporate upheaves never truly happen overnight - they begin
with merger rumors, angst about the future (on all levels) and on and on
until the day of reckoning. Could it be that uncertainty about the future
led to the duller spell the writing has taken (A&A excluded). Could it be
Malone et al saw what was coming down the pike and found it harder and
harder to put their souls into a show which could be hacked at the whim of
Disney?
In defense of the older characters: remember, some of us remember them
when they were in their primes and love having them around, bad hair and
all! Losing them would be like losing members of one's family! And some
have aged gracefully, like Robin Strasser. Remember the faux Dorian epoch?
Shoot, I'd be a fan of Strasser's if she was 98 years young!
I love making fun of the show, but I do it teasingly, not meanly. To be
honest it's been a hell of a fun addiction for the last 17 years. I
sincerely hope they don't ruin it, but as Mandibles mentioned, we'll only
know for sure when we get better attribution of what's being said.
On a soapbox with "insomnia" stenciled on the side...
wavegirl