--------------------------------------
d.w. mckim
http://community.webtv.net/larynx1/UltravioletMUSEings/index.html - "Let
me show you the world in my eyes" (Depeche Mode)
http://www.draftgore.com - for the restored health of the country and
the world
There are plenty of gay soap-opera actors but it would be the kiss of
death to their careers if they were to come out. Soap opera fans are
notorious for their romantic fantasizing & most would never accept a
gay actor/actress.
Well, yeah. You don't want to picture a couple kissing and assume
that the actor's thinking 'ewwwwww', though sometimes I assume that
could be the case anyway even if they are straight. Still, sad that
they have to lie about it.
TUC WATKINS IS GAY????
>
> TUC WATKINS IS GAY????
If you want unsubstantiated rumor, Lynn Liccardo did a major job of
outing...both DIRECTLY (mentioning a venerable AMC actor) and INDIRECTLY
(with the attached comment).
The point...NONE of these rumors is substantiated. And why do we care?
http://www.redroom.com/blog/lynnliccardo/connecting-dots-–-emmy-episode…#comment-5072
>
> John Truisi says: gay actors JAMES MITCHELL HAS NEVER,EVER,EVER
> PUBLICLY ANNOUCED HE IS GAY! wHY
> DID YOU CHOOSE TO OUT AN 84 YEAR OLD MAN,WHY NOT DARNELL WILLIAMS,TUC
> WATKINS,THAOO PHENGHISS,CHRISTIAN LE BLANC,GREG RICHART, MAURY BARTLETT,
> RICKY PAUL GOLDIN, VAN HANSIS AND SUSAN FLANNERY,JILL LARSON, AND ELLEN
> DOLAN,YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOUR SELF
The original post is up above that comment.
That red room link is dead. I have heard that six of the above are
gay. And I know of one that's missing from the list. But I'll never
tell.
I'm surprised (in a good way) to find RPG on this list. Who knew?
And Rikaart is spelled R-i-k-a-a-r-t.
Not dead. Just filled with a lot of incorrect characters. Try this:
http://www.redroom.com/blog/lynnliccardo/connecting-dots--emmy-episode
In case my newsreader turns the unusual characters into garbage, it's a
standard enough link until the word "connecting." It then goes "connecting
hyphen dots hyphen dash hyphen emmy hyphen episode ellipsis" and that's it.
A really shitty way to construct a URL, with non-standard characters. If
you're still having trouble, just use the site's search box and put in "emmy
connecting dots."
Aisling
--
FAC Will Cortlandt
Jewelled Frango 2001
President Pro Tem, RATSA 'Just Smack Jack' Society - protecting Pine Valley
citizens from the corrosive sanctimony of Jackson Montgomery
"In my line of work you gotta keep repeating things over and over and over
again for the truth to sink in, to kinda catapult the propaganda." - George
W. Bush, May 24, 2005
People care because most of us indulge in at least some gossip from time
to time. That said, one of my housemates in college very
matter-of-factly told some of us (this was in the mid-80s) that during
the summers, she used to see that AMC actor and another man in her town,
always together and often holding hands. *If* this is true (and it may
well not be), maybe he just lives his life and doesn't feel compelled to
make announcements?
-- Leslie
There was an ex-actor from OLTL who advertised in the male escort
section of the Washington Blade, DC's gay weekly newspaper. It must
have been in the early 90s. I didn't recognize either his name or the
name of his character, but I was watching the show, and curious about
who he was. I started watching when Michael Malone became HW.
(Yes, I called. No, I didn't go and meet him.)
>
> People care because most of us indulge in at least some gossip from time
> to time. That said, one of my housemates in college very
> matter-of-factly told some of us (this was in the mid-80s) that during
> the summers, she used to see that AMC actor and another man in her town,
> always together and often holding hands. *If* this is true (and it may
> well not be), maybe he just lives his life and doesn't feel compelled to
> make announcements? <<
Considering the generation that he's from, this is quite probably correct.
>>> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:51:24 -0400, thus spake emeraldeyes.nyc (in article
> <e_udnb2oFcQg_vnV...@rcn.net>):
>
>>
>> People care because most of us indulge in at least some gossip from time
>> to time. That said, one of my housemates in college very
>> matter-of-factly told some of us (this was in the mid-80s) that during
>> the summers, she used to see that AMC actor and another man in her town,
>> always together and often holding hands. *If* this is true (and it may
>> well not be), maybe he just lives his life and doesn't feel compelled to
>> make announcements? <<
>
> Considering the generation that he's from, this is quite probably correct.
>
> Aisling
As to the Tuc Watkins being gay rumor: When I used to summer out on
Fire Island in
the Pines I used to see him out there all the time. Now its pretty much
gay male community
and he was always with other gay men so.... But as I friend of mine
likes to say when he is
asked if someone is gay and he doesn't know for certain, "well he's
never sucked my dick." LOL
> >> On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:51:24 -0400, thus spake emeraldeyes.nyc (in article
> <e_udnb2oFcQg_vnV...@rcn.net>):
>
> >
> > People care because most of us indulge in at least some gossip from time
> > to time. That said, one of my housemates in college very
> > matter-of-factly told some of us (this was in the mid-80s) that during
> > the summers, she used to see that AMC actor and another man in her town,
> > always together and often holding hands. *If* this is true (and it may
> > well not be), maybe he just lives his life and doesn't feel compelled to
> > make announcements? <<
>
> Considering the generation that he's from, this is quite probably correct.
>
> Aisling
Well, I like how one of my favorite actors, David Hyde Pierce, dealt
with it. Back around the time "Frasier" started, he was asked a question
about that and said something to the effect of: my life is an open book,
but that doesn't mean I'm going to read it to you.
I think it was only in the last year or so (when "Curtains" opened on
Broadway, and I have to say that he was totally brilliant in that and
more than deserved the TONY that he won last year) that he acknowledged
in an interview that he has a long-term male partner.
-- Leslie <-- and I've been recommending "In the Heights" to everyone
for the last couple of months!
> On Jun 26, 11:51 pm, "emeraldeyes.nyc" <emeraldeyes....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > In article <_rC8k.1335$oY2....@newsfe21.lga>,
> >
> >
> >
> > MarkH <MarkH_slipr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Boffman wrote:
> >
> > > > TUC WATKINS IS GAY????
> >
> > > If you want unsubstantiated rumor, Lynn Liccardo did a major job of
> > > outing...both DIRECTLY (mentioning a venerable AMC actor) and INDIRECTLY
> > > (with the attached comment).
> >
> > > The point...NONE of these rumors is substantiated. And why do we care?
> >
> > >http://www.redroom.com/blog/lynnliccardo/connecting-dots--emmy-episodeŠ#co
> > >mme
> > > nt-5072
> >
> > > > John Truisi says: gay actors JAMES MITCHELL HAS NEVER,EVER,EVER
> > > > PUBLICLY ANNOUCED HE IS GAY! wHY
> > > > DID YOU CHOOSE TO OUT AN 84 YEAR OLD MAN,WHY NOT DARNELL WILLIAMS,TUC
> > > > WATKINS,THAOO PHENGHISS,CHRISTIAN LE BLANC,GREG RICHART, MAURY
> > > > BARTLETT,
> > > > RICKY PAUL GOLDIN, VAN HANSIS AND SUSAN FLANNERY,JILL LARSON, AND ELLEN
> > > > DOLAN,YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOUR SELF
> >
> > > The original post is up above that comment.
> >
> > People care because most of us indulge in at least some gossip from time
> > to time. That said, one of my housemates in college very
> > matter-of-factly told some of us (this was in the mid-80s) that during
> > the summers, she used to see that AMC actor and another man in her town,
> > always together and often holding hands. *If* this is true (and it may
> > well not be), maybe he just lives his life and doesn't feel compelled to
> > make announcements?
> >
> > -- Leslie
>
> There was an ex-actor from OLTL who advertised in the male escort
> section of the Washington Blade, DC's gay weekly newspaper. It must
> have been in the early 90s. I didn't recognize either his name or the
> name of his character, but I was watching the show, and curious about
> who he was. I started watching when Michael Malone became HW.
>
> (Yes, I called. No, I didn't go and meet him.)
Oooooh! How come you didn't meet him?
-- Leslie
Well, I was afraid. Or maybe a little prissy. Hiring a prostitute
wasn't a line I wanted to cross.
Although, if it had been someone I *knew* was hot, I might have. If it
had been David Fumero, I'd've been there, my clothes off like a prom
dress. I only started watching again around when Nash died. That actor
I might've liked, too.
> Well, I like how one of my favorite actors, David Hyde Pierce, dealt
> with it. Back around the time "Frasier" started, he was asked a question
> about that and said something to the effect of: my life is an open book,
> but that doesn't mean I'm going to read it to you.
That is, frankly, a *marvelous* response.
Michael
just found about this post. i want to be VERY clear. as i mentioned in
my response to trusi's little rant: both farley granger and arthur
laurents wrote about having relationships with james mitchell in their
respective autobiographies. so, I did no OUT james mitchell, or anyone
else for that matter, which is more than i can say about trusi.
i don't know how many times i have to post this reply before it
actually appears. I DID NOT OUT JAMES MITCHELL!~. both aruthur
laurents and farley granger discussed having relationships with jm in
their respective autobiographies -- laurents's was published in 2000.
so that information has been out in the public square for 8 years.
which i pointed out in my reply to trusi's outrageous ranting on june
17. the fact that this information was not included in your original
post, dated june 15, is absolutely irresponsible! this was brought
to my attention because someone googled my name. NOT COOL! once again:
I DID NOT OUT JAMES MITCHELL. that piece of information had been
revealed AT LEAST 8 years ago.
I seem to recall reading this in Arthur Laurents' bio, too.
> On Jun 25, 9:40 pm, MarkH <MarkH_slipr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Boffman wrote:
>>
>>> TUC WATKINS IS GAY????
>>
>> If you want unsubstantiated rumor, Lynn Liccardo did a major job of
>> outing...both DIRECTLY (mentioning a venerable AMC actor) and INDIRECTLY
>> (with the attached comment).
>>
>> The point...NONE of these rumors is substantiated. And why do we care?
>>
>> http://www.redroom.com/blog/lynnliccardo/connecting-dots- -emmy-episode #com
>> ment-5072
>>
>>
>>
>>> John Truisi says: gay actors JAMES MITCHELL HAS NEVER,EVER,EVER
>>> PUBLICLY ANNOUCED HE IS GAY! wHY
>>> DID YOU CHOOSE TO OUT AN 84 YEAR OLD MAN,WHY NOT DARNELL WILLIAMS,TUC
>>> WATKINS,THAOO PHENGHISS,CHRISTIAN LE BLANC,GREG RICHART, MAURY BARTLETT,
>>> RICKY PAUL GOLDIN, VAN HANSIS AND SUSAN FLANNERY,JILL LARSON, AND ELLEN
>>> DOLAN,YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOUR SELF
>>
>> The original post is up above that comment.
>>
>> --http://markhsoap.blogspot.com/
>
> i don't know how many times i have to post this reply before it
> actually appears. I DID NOT OUT JAMES MITCHELL!~. both aruthur
> laurents and farley granger discussed having relationships with jm in
> their respective autobiographies -- laurents's was published in 2000.
> so that information has been out in the public square for 8 years.
> which i pointed out in my reply to trusi's outrageous ranting on june
> 17. the fact that this information was not included in your original
> post, dated june 15, is absolutely irresponsible! this was brought
> to my attention because someone googled my name. NOT COOL! once again:
> I DID NOT OUT JAMES MITCHELL. that piece of information had been
> revealed AT LEAST 8 years ago. <<
Er...
It _did_ appear. At just before 5 PM eastern time, at least, on my news
server. You have to account for the peculiarities of Usenet when you're
anxiously waiting for a message to appear. Messages propogate to servers all
over the world at their own pace. Perhaps the news server that feeds Google
Groups (which I'm guessing is where you're posting/reading) hasn't picked it
up yet. But no worries; it's out there, and if your news server doesn't have
it yet, it will eventually.
As for whether you outed James Mitchell or not, the audience who read
Granger's and Laurents' bios is not necessarily the same subset of the
population as people who watch soaps, so there's a good chance that you _did_
out him with the soap viewership...
> As for whether you outed James Mitchell or not, the audience who read
> Granger's and Laurents' bios is not necessarily the same subset of the
> population as people who watch soaps, so there's a good chance that you _did_
> out him with the soap viewership...
Some of my friends know I'm gay but others don't and my family doesn't
(at least not officially; they're idiots if they haven't figured it
out, but denial runs deep); so if someone found out from one of my
friends and told my family, he/she wouldn't be outing me?
I'm also not sure I buy into the idea that just because somebody else
said it first it's OK to repeat it, one is not "outing" the person.
While I have no reason to doubt what Granger and Laurents wrote, the
fact that they wrote it does not make it true, and I gather James
Mitchell has elected not to confirm it. The "I didn't originate the
gossip, I just repeated what somebody else said" excuse only gets you
so far.
If I obtain concrete and incontrovertible proof of Tom Cruise's
homosexuality and make it public, can I legitimately claim I didn't
out him, given that rumors have circulated about him for years? That
just doesn't seem plausible to me.
Michael
Oh, come on. The man was a dancer on Broadway in the 1950s for crying
out loud. If that doesn't get him a Pink Card (and I mean the kind
that all can see), what would?
> On Jul 10, 10:05 pm, Aisling Willow Grey <aisl...@fjordstone.com>
> wrote:
>
>> As for whether you outed James Mitchell or not, the audience who read
>> Granger's and Laurents' bios is not necessarily the same subset of the
>> population as people who watch soaps, so there's a good chance that you
>> _did_
>> out him with the soap viewership...
>
> Some of my friends know I'm gay but others don't and my family doesn't
> (at least not officially; they're idiots if they haven't figured it
> out, but denial runs deep); so if someone found out from one of my
> friends and told my family, he/she wouldn't be outing me? <<
Hey, I'm on the same page as you -- I think what was said effectively _did_
out him...to the soap viewership.
>
> Hey, I'm on the same page as you -- I think what was said effectively _did_
> out him...to the soap viewership.
>
Concretely me. I did not know (because I did not read those two books)
until I saw Lynn's post. BUT...I confess I also guessed...because of
(a) the broadway dancer angle, (b) the lifelong bachelor angle, (c) his
ADAMANT AND IN THE PRESS refusal to play a homophobe--I'm thinking
either during the Kevin Sheffield or Bianca Montgomery stories...but I
can't remember which, and (d) this sort of prissy villainy that he did
BRILLIANTLY that just..."pinged". I realize a, b and d are all
stereotypes, and c could just mean he was a decent Mensch.
My greater upset was with that John Truisi's post, who put a bunch of
sh*t in the air...potentially outing many others.
But, I have apologized to Lynn. Because she didn't factually "out", and
I should not have publically accused her of it. Also, by copying the
source of my ire (because I have been conditioned here not to just post
links) I perpetuating the outing.
I should have just not done anything....
The "OUT" rant was part of a quoted comment from the Red Room link,
FY'all'sI.
... blog/lynnliccardo/connecting-dots-%E2%80%93-emmy-episode
%E2%80%A6#comment-5072
JM's sexuality has *long* been known on ratsa, going back years. Some
who are present now simply may not have been around for or recall
those discussions.
1/2 of the men I meet in the entertainment industry, now, I
automatically assume are gay or at least some measure of bi.
Mary
Having worked for many years in the entertainment industry, I'd love to know
where your statistics come from...
> Hey, I'm on the same page as you -- I think what was said effectively _did_
> out him...to the soap viewership.
No, I knew we were basically on the same side, Aisling; I was trying
to piggyback on what you said to the previous poster, but I was having
such a difficult time putting my finger on exactly what I thought was
wrong with what she was saying that I just didn't make it clear.
Michael
> >>On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:09:41 -0400, thus spake Lynn Liccardo (in article
>
> > i don't know how many times i have to post this reply before it
> > actually appears. I DID NOT OUT JAMES MITCHELL!~. both aruthur
> > laurents and farley granger discussed having relationships with jm in
> > their respective autobiographies -- laurents's was published in 2000.
> > so that information has been out in the public square for 8 years.
> > which i pointed out in my reply to trusi's outrageous ranting on june
> > 17. the fact that this information was not included in your original
> > post, dated june 15, is absolutely irresponsible! this was brought
> > to my attention because someone googled my name. NOT COOL! once again:
> > I DID NOT OUT JAMES MITCHELL. that piece of information had been
> > revealed AT LEAST 8 years ago. <<
>
> Er...
>
> As for whether you outed James Mitchell or not, the audience who read
> Granger's and Laurents' bios is not necessarily the same subset of the
> population as people who watch soaps, so there's a good chance that you _did_
> out him with the soap viewership...
>
OK, I've had a chance to think this through more carefully now and
perhaps can articulate a little better what I want to say, and it's
essentially a variation on the point that Aisling made: doesn't
whether one is guilty of "outing" someone whose sexuality has been
published, or alleged, elsewhere, depend on how widespread that
previous publication was? If the Journal of Nonexistent Readers,
circulation 317, publishes an article revealing that I'm gay, and
basically nobody notices, but then The New York Times, circulation a
zillion, picks up on it and publicizes the little-known article, so
that I'm bombarded by all sorts of publicity, is it fair of the Times
to say it didn't out me? I would argue not. I'd say that the
responsibility/blame is shared between the two.
I imagine a minimal number of people have read either of the two
biographies mentioned, so to cite either of them in defense of the
idea that the blog entry didn't out JM is a little hard to justify,
I'd say. It would be on stronger ground, I would think, to argue that
the blog has limited enough exposure that it hasn't really "outed" JM
either, except that many things picked up in blogs get circulated more
widely, and that puts the blog in the same category as the Journal of
Nonexistent Readers in the example above.
Overall, I'd say it's disingenous to argue that because information X
didn't originate with you, you only passed it on, you therefore lack
any culpability in regard to whatever damage it does.
Michael
I don't think it is a violation to say that back-channel Lynn and I have
been corresponding about this. She is upset to think that she might
have "outed"...so she has been asking around, and many in her circle
seem to have known.
I think the issue is that "outing" is not an absolute term, but a
relative one. Every time you tell someone who doesn't know, you
"out"...even if the information is common knowledge.
You know, in this particular case, it is all a little odd. The actor in
question has apparently long been living an openly gay life. The ONLY
thing he hasn't done is talk in the press about it. So, did Farley
Granger out him? Or is this a non-issue...he doesn't care, but he's
just of an era where he personally chooses not to personally do
publicity about it?
To be clear, my original objection to the piece--while it DID include a
reaction to AMC actor--had more to do with the STRING of other actors
listed. (That is what I should not have copied!! *hit myself*). None
of that is confirmed, some of it could be *true* outing...
In the end, my frustration is this: Why does the "coming out" of Ellen
Degeneres, Neil Patrick Harris or Lance Bass warrant a People cover?
Does every actor who "comes out" as straight deserve a cover?
It all seems to still fuel a culture of viewing GLBT as "circus freaks".
> To be clear, my original objection to the piece--while it DID include a
> reaction to AMC actor--had more to do with the STRING of other actors
> listed. (That is what I should not have copied!! *hit myself*). None
> of that is confirmed, some of it could be *true* outing...
I had never heard about many of the persons on that list being gay.
So, yeah, I guess you outed them to me. (But I swear, I haven't shared
this info with a soul.)
Worse, perhaps, I had never heard *of* one of the persons on that
list.
hi mark --
well, don't know about "my circle" but the information re JM and FG
was out there well ahead of my post. the link is below the material in
quotes:
"#143: Don't know all that much, except that James Mitchell had an
affair with Farley
Granger in the mid-50s, according to both Arthur Laurents and a dancer
who worked with
Mitchell in the early 50s. Other than that, JM is either the most
incompetent or least
enthusiastic closet case in daytime, given the number of fans who have
reported seeing
him with his boyfriend over the past several years.
by: Anonymous reply 199 06/12/08 @19:55
R199 - Mitchell isn't a closet case. He's been out and about for eons.
He's never hid
himself in the closet.
My uncle was a dancer with him many, many, many years ago.
I met Mitchell on the street on the upper west side coming out of a
bodega. He couldn't
have been nicer.
y: Anonymous reply 200 06/12/08 @21:51"
http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/iowa/forum/thread/gossip/6544693/page-7.html
Lynn has written a nice followup to this discussion on her blog:
http://www.redroom.com/blog/lynnliccardo/kerfuffle%E2%80%A6
"The Kerfuffle"
It is worth a read, because she discusses some vivid memories of scenes
with the actor we have been talking about here.
She then relates an anecdote about a storyline at Ryan's Hope that
sounds mind-blowingly powerful...but it tells how what actors are going
through personally can really deepen what is happening on screen...if
the writing supports it.
--
http://markhsoap.blogspot.com/
I wrote "meet." No statistics required.
Mary