AMC: When do you think it jumped the shark?
Lynn Riley
Jumping the shark.
To quote from http://www.jumptheshark.com:
"It's a moment. A defining moment when you know that your
favorite television program has reached its peak. That instant
that you know from now on...it's all downhill. Some call it the
climax. We call it "Jumping the Shark." From that moment on,
the program will simply never be the same.
The term "jump the shark" was coined by my college roommate
for 4 years, Sean J. Connolly, in Ann Arbor, Michigan back in
1985. This web site, book, film, and all other material surrounding
shark jumping, are hereby dedicated to "the Colonel."
The aforementioned expression refers to the telltale sign of the
demise of Happy Days, our favorite example, when Fonzie
actually "jumped the shark." The rest is history.
Jumping the shark applies not only to TV, but also music, film,
even everyday life. "Did you see her boyfriend? She definitely
jumped the shark." You get the idea."
So when do you think that All My Children jumped the shark?
When did AMC leave it's heyday behind?
My vote (as an on-off watcher since the mid 70's): when Skye#3
(Carrie Genzel) secretly slinked off to rehab. Except for Bianca's
coming out, nothing has been as interesting since. Right now, it's
downright awful, which is what prompted me to write this post.
LR
walt
> It's been on my mind lately.
>
> When did AMC leave it's heyday behind?
>
> My vote (as an on-off watcher since the mid 70's): when Skye#3
> (Carrie Genzel) secretly slinked off to rehab. Except for Bianca's
> coming out, nothing has been as interesting since. Right now, it's
> downright awful, which is what prompted me to write this post.
Well, I've never followed or understood the network politics that the
RATSA regulars discuss from time to time, but it seems to have penetrated
my foggy brain that Agnes Nixon left the show awhile back.
It really seems to me that it was right about then that things got
depressing.
Mstronique
>
>Jumping the shark.
>
I like that.
I found that whenever a TV show had Tom Postum or Don Knotts as a guest star
that show's days were numbered.
I think Postum was recently on ER. That show jumped the shark quite a while
ago. Having Postum as a guest star just seals the deal.
As for AMC, They stopped being a soap opera and tried to be trendy or all
things to all people. They need characters that the audience can relate to or
at least have some feelings for. It all boils down to the writing. It's like it
has no heart in it any more. Maybe there is still hope for it. I just don't
know.
sha...@webtv.net
of main, or I should say interesting characters. Let's see, Noah,
Belinda, Ruth, Tom, the whole Dillion Clan (my God how I miss those
folks!) Mona, grandma Kate, Det. Frye (the old one, you know the one
that had a storyline, now he's a joke!) and what was the name of that
gorgeous woman who played his wife, she became a cop too? She was great!
Last but not least Arlene. Please let them bring her back soon!
Partial list only, I'm sure there's more I've forgotten.
Shaqqie
ptizedpig
> Damn, "jumped the shark" huh.....well for me it breaks down to a loss
> of main, or I should say interesting characters. Let's see, Noah,
I think the shark jumped whenever they took Leo's scarves and fuzzy sweaters
away and banned Josh Duhamel from getting his haircut. Leo was originally
such a perfectly created and well drawn character. Now he is as non-descript
as everyone else. A sloppy, slovenly Leo is a microcosm of a sloppy slovenly
All My Children.
Pigi
panthera pardus
> So when do you think that All My Children jumped the shark?
> When did AMC leave it's heyday behind?
>
I think it was somewhere between the time that Erica went on a madcap
shopping spree in Manhattan with the baby she kidnapped from Maria and
when Brooke killed a man in cold blood and was found not guilty.
Debbie
--
A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
Aisling Willow Grey
<lots of snipped stuff> <<
Thanks for the pop culture reality check, Lynn. This is now the
second time I've heard "jumping the shark" cited, so I'm convinced
it's an actual trend term.
As for AMC, I don't think you can put a 5-day a week soap in the same
class as a sitcom or sitdram. I don't think the same parameters
apply. Judging them in the same way isn't remotely fair; what the
soaps accomplish every day is what a sitcom gets to spend days, or
even weeks, filming.
With soaps, I think the standard is more like a curve, or like
phrasing in music. Sometimes, it's just too damned loud and
dissonant; but eventually we know some movement is going to come
around that's going to make us positively _weep_.
Having said that, we're clearly in a trough period, now.
Very few viewers seem to care about anything connected with the
Alex/Anna storyline (that includes Muddy Boots Guy!), and even the
viewers who are Anna fans from GH are disappointed with the writing
and acting. The Couples-to-Root-For are few and far between, with not
much happening on any of their plates: Ryan and Gillian are forever
cooking up boring make-money-fast schemes; Liza and Adam have precious
little to do; Tad and Dixie are in a holding pattern, and so are David
and Dixie; Erica has mild flirtations with Roger, but IMHO there's no
heat there; Hayley and Mateo are mostly missing in action, and
nothing's going on with them anyway; really, the only couple with any
kind of spark at all are Leo and Greenlee, and I think the writing for
their storyline has been going downhill in recent weeks. What might
perk me up a bit is if they gave Erica a real romance...and if they
gave Bianca a real romance.
I can't think of anything since Bianca's coming out (and the buildup
to it) that has made me jump up off the couch and say "Oh my god! Oh
my god!" That was months ago. And AMC used to have me in tears at
least two or three times a year. Some of the stuff between David and
Dixie was quite riveting, but it looks like the writers are backing
away from that pairing. Poor Vincent Irizarry! It seems like he's
plagued with the acting equivalent of coitus interruptus: the writers
keep getting him close to having a real romance, a lasting
relationship....but they pull out at the last minute each time. A
good looking man like that, complex, as different from the
Sancti-Martins as night is from day, and a darned good actor to
boot....yet they can't seem to make any pairing with him stick!
We've had some remarkable highs over the past few years, but there
were also some _staggering_ lows that cannot be forgotten: Erica
babynapping Sonia, the loss of the entire Dylan clan, Wall Woman and
That K__ F______ Person, the whole misbegotten tale of L____l and the
mess she made of Jack and Trevor...
Any of you remember how you felt when Gloria dumped Stuart at the
altar? How about when Will menaced Hayley in the apartment on the
night he was murdered? Natalie and Dimitri's engagement party, when
Helga wheeled out Angelique? Edmund and Maria making love in the
stable? (Edmund doing _anything_, for that matter, other than moping
around and helping Dimitri and Alex and their various intrigues?)
Brooke finding out that Laura was dead? Tad slowly falling in love
with Dixie over the course of his investigation for Adam? Skye
vamping it up around town, or lounging around the Chandler pool
looking like a goddess, and making trouble wherever she went? Erica
shaving Dimitri's beard? Adam and Palmer going at it as equals?
Daisy and Myra sniping aimiably at Palmer? When was the last time AMC
made you feel like you did _any_ of those times?
But they _did_ give us those remarkable Bianca scenes late last year.
It's just getting hard to care about any of the dodos currently on the
canvas. The unfamiliar dodos are just annoying; and the familiar ones
need to have their characters adjusted.
So, no, I don't think AMC has "jumped the shark." But I do think
there's ample room for improvement.
Aisling
FAC Pine Valley Ghostbusters Local #707
Aisling Willow Grey
Lynn Riley
Aisling Willow Grey wrote:
> >>Lynn Riley wrote:
>
> <lots of snipped stuff> <<
>
> Thanks for the pop culture reality check, Lynn. This is now the
> second time I've heard "jumping the shark" cited, so I'm convinced
> it's an actual trend term.
I first heard it on rec.arts.tv.
> As for AMC, I don't think you can put a 5-day a week soap in the same
> class as a sitcom or sitdram. I don't think the same parameters
> apply. Judging them in the same way isn't remotely fair; what the
> soaps accomplish every day is what a sitcom gets to spend days, or
> even weeks, filming.
>
> With soaps, I think the standard is more like a curve, or like
> phrasing in music. Sometimes, it's just too damned loud and
> dissonant; but eventually we know some movement is going to come
> around that's going to make us positively _weep_.
True enough. Soaps wax and wane, like our lives.
> Having said that, we're clearly in a trough period, now.
>
> Very few viewers seem to care about anything connected with the
> Alex/Anna storyline (that includes Muddy Boots Guy!), and even the
> viewers who are Anna fans from GH are disappointed with the writing
> and acting.
That's because this story *belongs* to the GH writers, not the AMC
writers. Just because Alex married Dimitri doesn't mean that her
story is firmly anchored in Pine Valley. They haven't even tried to
tie it down by, for example, bringing up Anna's "Lavery" name and
how Ryan may be related to Duke. TPTB just keep showing strangers
stalking the twins and subsequently dying. Meanwhile, we're all anti-
cipating the day Alex meets/Anna reunites with Robert and Robin,
and they all head back to Port Charles.
> The Couples-to-Root-For are few and far between, with not
> much happening on any of their plates: Ryan and Gillian are forever
This is the lifeblood of the show - the couples, their affairs, and their
relatives. These families, even the Martins, are so disconnected right
now that these *stupid* stories fling the characters all over the place.
When Haley married Mateo, they created the largest extended family
in Pine Valley. But we NEVER see them all together, because their
storylines sent many of them out of town. This includes: the Dillon/
/Chandler/Vaughns, Martins, Santoses, Maricks, Greys, Cortlandts/
Hayward/duPres, Kanes, and as of late, Greenlees/Smythes.
> <snip past highlights>
Another high point: Kendall; and L____l's shooting.
The clips of Tom telling Brooke that Laura #1 had died are what
made me initiate this thread.
> It's just getting hard to care about any of the dodos currently on the
> canvas. The unfamiliar dodos are just annoying; and the familiar ones
> need to have their characters adjusted.
>
> So, no, I don't think AMC has "jumped the shark." But I do think
> there's ample room for improvement.
Vast improvement. I agree.
LR
Aisling Willow Grey
<snipping lots of relevant commentary>
Another high point: Kendall; and L____l's shooting. <<
Yes! Thank you for mentioning Kendall's storyline, which most certainly was
a high point. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought within S-M Gellar's
first few days that here was a star in the making.
Susan Dobbs
Aisling Willow Grey wrote:
> >I can't think of anything since Bianca's coming out (and the buildup
> to it) that has made me jump up off the couch and say "Oh my god! Oh
> my god!" That was months ago. And AMC used to have me in tears at
> least two or three times a year.
My nomination for the "high points" tape would be when Erica returned
Sonia to Maria.
SusanD
DonnaB
<20010508200831...@ng-cr1.aol.com> mstro...@aol.com
(Mstronique) wrote:
>As for AMC, They stopped being a soap opera and tried to be trendy or all
>things to all people. ...
How & when, in other words, what would you think of as examples, of
their ceasing to be a soap opera & trying to be trendy or all things
to all people?
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo Instant Msgr: shallotpeel <*>
Celebrating 35 years of ANOTHER WORLD, 5/4/64-6/25/99!
"One kind word can warm three winter months." - Japanese Proverb
DonnaB
<3AF8D019...@fjordstone.com> Aisling Willow Grey
<ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
>Thanks for the pop culture reality check, Lynn. This is now the
>second time I've heard "jumping the shark" cited, so I'm convinced
>it's an actual trend term.
Hey, it's not a new term, not nearly new enough to be trendy. <G>
>As for AMC, I don't think you can put a 5-day a week soap in the same
>class as a sitcom or sitdram. I don't think the same parameters
>apply. Judging them in the same way isn't remotely fair; what the
>soaps accomplish every day is what a sitcom gets to spend days, or
>even weeks, filming.
>
>With soaps, I think the standard is more like a curve, or like
>phrasing in music. Sometimes, it's just too damned loud and
>dissonant; but eventually we know some movement is going to come
>around that's going to make us positively _weep_.
>
>Having said that, we're clearly in a trough period, now.
Yes, generally speaking, I don't think jump the shark moments are as
easy to pinpoint for US daytime soaps as for other serials. And,
hindsight is definitely best. I can look back at times when I was
watching AMC & then stopped watching [which oddly seem to have Megan
McTavish in common] & think that that would have been a jump the shark
moment if the show had not then come back from that to a better
period. However, for example, with DOOL, when I was one of many who
watched unhappily for a long period of time, who eventually gave it
up, we used to spend serious time & interest trying to pinpoint when
things went awry & in that instance I'd say there's no hope for it to
ever come back from it, etc.
So, while I think I might be able to say when DOOL jumped the shark, I
do not yet think that AMC has jumped it. Hey, even closer, and on the
mouse network, I think I can pinpoint when PC jumped the shark, too.
To me, for both AMC & GH, there may be sharks in the water, but,
they're still outside the gates of the artificial lagoon.
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo Instant Msgr: shallotpeel <*>
Celebrating 35 years of ANOTHER WORLD, 5/4/64-6/25/99!
"Santa Claus has the right idea: Visit people once a year." - Victor
Borge
DonnaB
<3AF95153...@fjordstone.com> Aisling Willow Grey
<ais...@fjordstone.com> wrote:
>Yes! Thank you for mentioning Kendall's storyline, which most certainly was
>a high point. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought within S-M Gellar's
>first few days that here was a star in the making.
I thought surely she'd be recast & that she was completely
unbelievable as the age she was meant to be & that she needed to go
directly to acting school without passing go or collecting any
dollars. <G> LOL.
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo Instant Msgr: shallotpeel <*>
Celebrating 35 years of ANOTHER WORLD, 5/4/64-6/25/99!
"At every occasion in your life, do not forget to commune with
yourself and ask of yourself how you can profit by it." - Epictetus
norma clay
good time to run the vacum
ALRMCCALL
~Amy
Rthrquiet
[Re: Sarah Michelle Gellar, ex-Kendall]:
>I thought surely she'd be recast & that she was completely
>unbelievable as the age she was meant to be & that she needed to go
>directly to acting school without passing go or collecting any
>dollars. <G> LOL.
>
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I was beginning to think I was the *only* one
who felt this way. Given the quality of teen talent that soaps often attract, I
never saw anything from Miss G. that compared, and yet people *rave* about her.
Sometimes even when I don't particularly care for an actor but other people
find him/her terrific, I can at least see what they're talking about, but I
just *never* saw it with SMG.
Michael
Mstronique
>their ceasing to be a soap opera & trying to be trendy or all things
>to all people?
Originally, I think soaps were more family based. I mean the characters were
people you could relate to on some level. Sometimes you knew people like them.
I don't know many counts or former spies. I don't even know anyone who can
remotely be termed as rich or VERY well off.
Even when this is the case, it would be nice if you could at least like the
character in some way. There should be some universal "human" characteristic
that makes you interested in the character. I couldn't care less about Greenly
or Erica or Anna/Alex and so on.
As for the trendy stuff . . . the ship and the whole sleazy story line that
goes with it turns me off completely. "Reality" based shows bore me because
they are not reality. If I were interested in them I would be watching them
rather than some poor copy-cat version on a soap. You have to admit the
Libidizone affair came from Viagra, another trendy subject.
In the end it still boils down to the writing, Instead of these gimmics, write
something good and meaty. I think the JR story line is going this way. Sure, he
is mouthy and rude but why shouldn't he be? I think a real kid in these
circumstances would react in the same way to a mother that cared so little
about him that she pursued her own selfish desires before thinking of the
consequences to her child. She doesn't deserve much respect right now.
A good story should draw you in to the point where you almost forget it is just
a story. It should touch your emotions. At the least, it should make you
interested in what is going to happen next.
DonnaB
<20010509225409...@ng-fd1.aol.com> rthr...@aol.com
(Rthrquiet) wrote:
>[Re: Sarah Michelle Gellar, ex-Kendall]:
>
>Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! I was beginning to think I was the *only* one
>who felt this way. Given the quality of teen talent that soaps often attract, I
>never saw anything from Miss G. that compared, and yet people *rave* about her.
>Sometimes even when I don't particularly care for an actor but other people
>find him/her terrific, I can at least see what they're talking about, but I
>just *never* saw it with SMG.
Frankly, I still think that. And, I've tried over & over again in
numerous projects to see some real acting, so far, nope, not there. I
hope for her sake that she is investing wisely.
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo Instant Msgr: shallotpeel <*>
"Change does not necessarily assure progress, but progress implacably
requires change. Education is essential to change, for education
creates both new wants and the ability to satisfy them." - Henry
Steele Commager
DonnaB
<20010510114338...@ng-da1.aol.com> mstro...@aol.com
(Mstronique) wrote:
>>How & when, in other words, what would you think of as examples, of
>>their ceasing to be a soap opera & trying to be trendy or all things
>>to all people?
>
>Originally, I think soaps were more family based. I mean the characters were
>people you could relate to on some level. Sometimes you knew people like them.
>I don't know many counts or former spies. I don't even know anyone who can
>remotely be termed as rich or VERY well off.
>Even when this is the case, it would be nice if you could at least like the
>character in some way. There should be some universal "human" characteristic
>that makes you interested in the character. I couldn't care less about Greenly
>or Erica or Anna/Alex and so on.
Well, characters like Erica, Greenlee, Anna/Alex [minus the spy stuff
that came along in the 80s] have been staples of soaps forever. I
adore Greenlee & am glad we have her & have said more than once that I
figure that she's the last one of these dames that Agnes Nixon will
create for us. But, I would say that soaps originally were
character-drive instead of event-driven & that traditional soap fans
[like me, for just one] still clamor for more character basis & less
plot basis!
I certainly hope people don't want to just see people like the people
they know, even though, I'm guessing many people do know someone
sooner or later who is wealthy even if they're like bugs under a
microscope to them, etc. Frankly, I hope soaps continue to broaden
people's horizons of what other people might do, feel, etc. in certain
situations, even if those situations are exaggerated for the sake of
the drama of it. And, I don't have to like a character to be
interested in them, although I do find that I have to like someone on
the show!
>As for the trendy stuff . . . the ship and the whole sleazy story line that
>goes with it turns me off completely. "Reality" based shows bore me because
>they are not reality.
To me reality TV is the news & scripted TV is fiction that moves
around in a little box. I don't watch today's so-called reality
programming & am rather resistant to all of the appearances by these
people & references to it.
>If I were interested in them I would be watching them
>rather than some poor copy-cat version on a soap. You have to admit the
>Libidizone affair came from Viagra, another trendy subject.
I guess if the Libidizone stuff was meant to be trendy, that went
right on past me. Viagra would tend to be kinda old for trendy if you
ask me. And, I thought they went out of their way to make sure it was
clearly not a Viagra like result. Frankly, it reminded me of one more
return to the past, a wacky romantic comedy out of the 40s, etc.
>In the end it still boils down to the writing,
Or what they're allowed to write, allowed to present, by management,
sure. On that we absolutely agree.
>Instead of these gimmics, write
>something good and meaty. I think the JR story line is going this way. Sure, he
>is mouthy and rude but why shouldn't he be? I think a real kid in these
>circumstances would react in the same way to a mother that cared so little
>about him that she pursued her own selfish desires before thinking of the
>consequences to her child. She doesn't deserve much respect right now.
>A good story should draw you in to the point where you almost forget it is just
>a story. It should touch your emotions. At the least, it should make you
>interested in what is going to happen next.
Yep, that's what soaps do best. And, to me, this past year, AMC did
the best traditional soap storyline in years, so, despite their
obvious problems working out where to go next, I still don't see a
show that has jumped the shark. But, I am worried that ABC is about to
ruin their entire lineup in one 6 month period.
--
DonnaB 8^> Yahoo Instant Msgr: shallotpeel <*>
"Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which
difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish." - John Quincy Adams
sha...@webtv.net
the hell would they break up this couple? Big mistake AMC....let them
work it out. Oh, I can't wait for Nessie to get revenge on
Roger....maybe she could ask Millicent to help...no love lost between
Roger and her. Come on girls sic 'em....go for his lacquered head!
(loved that remark by Palmer, what a character he can be )
Shaqqie
mary b
> Aisling Willow Grey wrote:
>
> > >>Lynn Riley wrote:
> >
> > <lots of snipped stuff> <<
> >
> > Thanks for the pop culture reality check, Lynn. This is now the
> > second time I've heard "jumping the shark" cited, so I'm convinced
> > it's an actual trend term.
> True enough. Soaps wax and wane, like our lives.
>
> > Having said that, we're clearly in a trough period, now.
Of the last year or two, my highlight was last summer's
Adam/Stuart climax. Toughing and, thanks to Agnes
Nixon, a hoot and a half.
> That's because this story *belongs* to the GH writers, not the AMC
> writers.
May I point out that McTravesty is currently listed as
headwriter on GH?
Mary
mct...@dakotacom.net
>My vote (as an on-off watcher since the mid 70's): when Skye#3
>(Carrie Genzel) secretly slinked off to rehab. Except for Bianca's
>coming out, nothing has been as interesting since. Right now, it's
>downright awful, which is what prompted me to write this post.
Delurking for a moment to spend two cents. Perhaps I'm in the
minority, but I think AMC is pretty good right now, with the
notable exception of Anna/Alex, etc... What I think would be
terrific is if they brought back Tom Cudahy to comfort Brooke
in her moment of need. I have enjoyed the Brooke/Erica scenes,
if Tom came back it would shake things up. Both Brooke and Erica
are single, both have a history of bedding the same men, both
are now uninvolved and available, plus Tom had great chemistry
with Brooke, can't remember much about him with Erica. I don't
know what Richard Shoberd (sp?) is up to these days, haven't
seen him since he left AMC.
Bring Tom Cudahy Back!
zenbug
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Dana Kiehl
> minority, but I think AMC is pretty good right now, with the
> notable exception of Anna/Alex, etc...
We may very well be in the minority, but I too think AMC has been pretty good for
awhile now. Though it has managed to screw up a few things (the Rev Freeman story
for one), I can't agree with those posters who feel it's downright awful or
terribly boring. It's certainly 100x better than it was when Megan McTavish was
headwriter. To me, she almost destroyed the show with her god-awful writing.
> What I think would be terrific is if they brought back Tom Cudahy to comfort
> Brooke in her moment of need.
The PTB missed a great opportunity to bring Richard Shoberg back as Tom during the
Rev. Freeman storyline. I felt one of the (many) problems with that storyline was
that it was done in isolation, in that it didn't involve most of the people who
were affected by Laura's death. We only saw reactions from Brooke, Erica, and Jack
(and the latter two weren't really involved the last time). We saw nothing from
Adam, Tad (who was friends with Barbara, and Josh for that matter), or Dixie, nor
do we even know if they ever found out that Freeman was Josh. Also, it would have
been a great time to briefly bring back Barbara and Tom. Barbara (who let Laura
cross the street) could have come back to try to deal with Travis' death and
Bianca's grief, along with finding out that Freeman was Josh. Tom of course was
Laura's father and he could have at least helped Brooke deal with her ongoing
grief, as I think he dealt with his own grief very early on and was able to move
on.
--
Dana in MD