Picture this scenario. Brooke's out for dinner with her son, Adam, and Adam's
son. Adam invites Brooke's secret lover Pierce to join there, thereby making
Brooke uncomfortable. She tries to negate the invitation by:
a) Smiling sweetly and saying "I'd love to have drinks with you Pierce, but
perhaps some evening when I'm not trying to have quality-time with my son."
b) Smiling sweetly and saying simply "that's a kind offer, Adam, but I'm sorry
Pierce it's simply not possible tonight."
c) Smiling sweetly and saying "Jame and Junior have appalling, repulsive table
manners which will disgust you. You will not want to eat in front of them.
They will send you screaming from the table. Please, get out while you can."
If you picked (c), you're right! Brooke insulted the kids in the hopes of
worming out of the invitation, but it didn't work, hardy har har.
Oh, and when she was chatting with Janet at the station, I worked out what to
say myself if ever an acquaintance was charged with murder. "I'm very sorry
you're in here, and I certainly hope you didn't do it." I'd like to do a
better job of it than Brooke!
Ashley "Remembering the Good Old Days Eight Months Ago When I
Was Only Gently Inclining Toward the AFAC Brooke Side" Lambert-Maberly
(ash...@oldadm.ubc.ca)
Keeper of the FAC List, and RATSA Reading Group Moderator
FAC Marianna Starkweather, LCAS Spearcarrier #3
Pope Ular of the IHLC, & Cheese Hostess for SPERM
>Ashley "Remembering the Good Old Days Eight Months Ago When I
>Was Only Gently Inclining Toward the AFAC Brooke Side" Lambert-Maberly
i
Can anyone reasonably pinpoint the start of Brooke's downward spiral
into self-absorption. Was it after she "got over" her depression or
whatever that was? I can't even remember Brooke when I used to like
her she has changed that much. It became front burner when she decided
to hang with Adam again. But how about before that point. Anyone?
--
Kathy
FAC Taylor's Faux "FeeBee" Fetus (Aug. 1995-Oct. 1995) R.I.P.
AFAC Brooke and Erica
FeeBee's Hints: FAC: F(avorite) A(MC) C(haracter)
David "Now, of course, Edmund annoys me almost as much" Welsh
FAC Anonymous Alcoholics
LCAS - Keeper of the Clipboard
Applicant - AFAC Brooke
Applicant - ILJC - Emmy Reel Editor
> Can anyone reasonably pinpoint the start of Brooke's downward spiral
> into self-absorption. Was it after she "got over" her depression or
> whatever that was? I can't even remember Brooke when I used to like
> her she has changed that much. It became front burner when she decided
> to hang with Adam again. But how about before that point. Anyone?
> I think it began when Brooke lost Edmund to Maria. Up to that point she was
still fun, interesting and passionate. Since then she has been soooo dull
and self-righteous. Not even hanging with Adam has helped. And hanging with
Pierce...well, I can't even finish that thought.
Donna
ILJC Keeper of the Sacred Tears
>Kathy
My fondness or lack thereof for Brooke is cyclical. Can we talk Gilles
St.Clair? No, better not.
When she was doing the Edmund/Tad thing, even though I desperately wanted her
back with Edmund and she veered the other way, I didn't actually loathe the
character, just her choices, so to speak. During the no-storyline year, when
she became a big buttinski into Adam & his family's life, she actually didn't
even annoy me then.
What really did it was TPTB dropping what seemed to be a
depression/menopause/whatever storyline, and curing her with a bit of the old
Adam. At about the same time she dropped Jamie off at Tad's to spend all her
time at the shelter, because she became obssessed for no good reason with
homeless girl Laura. [I was always shouting at her "what about all the other
poor homeless people who aren't the same age and name as your dead daughter,
don't they deserve something?]
In the space of about two months she went from must-see-t.v. to yikes, that
awful obssessed woman again, and has been slipping even further month to month
since then.
In other words, only for about the last year, year and a half, has Ms
Buttinski REALLY started to annoy me.
Ashley Lambert-Maberly
Well, I've hated her since I was a tiny wee babe, round about 8 which is when
I started watching the show. And the reason I hate her is crystalized in the
Gilles St. Clair affair. She's dumb. She's dumb as a bag of rocks. No, she's
not any dumber than your average soap female, but I'm asked to believe she is
an intellegent woman that I should look up to.
She's also repulsively needy. Not any more needy than your average female soap
character, but I'm asked to believe she's an independent woman that I should
look up to.
She's self-centered and only helpful when it's convenient for her. No any more
so than your average female soap character, but I'm supposed to believe that
she is more generous than mother Theresa.
They have written her dialoge and the dialogue of others regarding her
to reflect these myths and then given her plots which are diametrically
opposed. My only refuge is hating her.
Add to this, and I know I'm in the vast minority here and that this is just my
opinion, the fact that Julia Barr seems completely unaware of the inconsistency
and plays the plots as though the myths were true, and you have a completly
unappealing (to me) character and some highly mediocre acting.
>In the space of about two months she went from must-see-t.v. to yikes, that
>awful obssessed woman again, and has been slipping even further month to month
>since then.
>
>In other words, only for about the last year, year and a half, has Ms
>Buttinski REALLY started to annoy me.
>
She has annoyed me for all eternity.
Christine Malcom-Department of Anthropology (cm...@midway.uchicago.edu)
Reigning Queen of AFAC Brooke
"I didn't mean it when I said I hope the cable in the elevator snaps when you
step on board. And I was joking when I said I hope you crack your head and
get mangled by the downstairs revolving door. And I was kidding when I said I
hope the #103 bus hits and makes a pancake out of you. I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
isn't it amazing what a woman in love will do?" Christine Lavin
--
I've never liked Brooke. I see Brooke as a failure as a soap heroine.
I know soap heroines. Generations of soap heroines. Viki Lord
Riley Buchanan Et Cetera is a favorite of mine. And Brooki is no Viki.
Viki, OLTL, is (or was) one of very few true soap heroines.
Because, she would do the right thing, no matter what the personal
sacrifice. She had a lot of integrity. There's a reason why there are no
real heroines anymore. They're out of fashion. Integrity is not a word
that comes to mind when you think "sweeps month. Big ratings." Pity.
Still, AMC writes Brooke as the a 90s Walmart heroine, but it doesn't
work for me. Janet is a better heroine, but she's a better character anyhow.
You can write a heroine in one of two ways. Either she aspires to be a
good, decent human, and fails, as we all do, so we understand her failings.
Let's call this the JANET form of soap heroine.
Or, she assumes she is already a perfect human, and everyone else
has to measure up to her. This is the BROOKE version. They write her
as a sanctimonious sow with her nose in the air, looking down on the rest
of the human race, as she herself breathes the rarified air that only she is
permitted to breathe. Then, when she falls off her pedestal, as she will,
it's kinda tough to care about it, or her.
Both are essentially decent people. And really good people are sort
of boring to write, because they lack the color of character that makes
less than good people interesting. So, they enliven these good people's
lives with "SITUATIONS".
Situation one. A gorgeous hunk, who's a little bit stupid, socially awkward,
emotionally fragile, perhaps a bit unstable, and utterly confused, has
confused gratitude with attraction, and proximity with lust. What do you
do? Have a wild old fling with him, and then tell him, sorry bucko, I've
got this really rich guy on the hook, so go back to the forest? That's
what Brooke did.
Or do you explain to him that you know he has a commitment to another
woman, and you have a long term understanding with another man, and
if that ever changes, you'd be interested, but let's be adults here. That's
a lot more boring, yes. But that's what a soap heroine would do. So,
Brooke fails at what I expect of her. And I expect that because when
I cared about Brooke, she was a heroine. Brooke was the one who
finally gave Adam Jr. back to Dixie. That was worthy of Viki herself.
Now, I can't respect Brooke.
Now, let's contrast a SITUATION they give Janet. Given, Janet is
flawed.
Your beloved daughter is in a dangerous place. You aren't supposed
to be near her. Her stepmother has been shot, her father is busy. You
ask your nephew to take care of her, but he freaks. Do you:
A) take care of your kid, and damn the personal repercussions, or
B) take care of yourself, your possible indictment, and your looney
ex's probable reaction to A?
She chose A. That's a heroine's reaction. Do the right thing, at least
the right thing as you perceive it, no matter what personal consequence.
If you use the heroine formula, Janet, flaws and all, makes all the points,
and Brooke is the loser.
It's been popular to say that there are no heroines in real life, so there
shouldn't be in the soaps. People aren't just black and white; they have
a lot of shades of gray. Well, duh. Heroines have shades of grey too,
because they're human. But the human character does indeed include
some brilliant whites. And perhaps exploring that in a person known
predominantly known for her darker side has been what has kept me
watching AMC for the last two years. It hasn't been for Brooke.
Christine adds:> I know I'm in the vast minority here and that this is just my
>opinion,.... Julia Barr seems completely unaware of the inconsistency
>and plays the plots as though the myths were true, and you have a completly
>unappealing (to me) character and some highly mediocre acting.
I don't think you are in the minority. The reason I am loyal to Erika
Slezak as an actress is because somehow, with all the different writers
and producers, who have written her character very inconsistently
over the years, Slezak can embue her character with the qualities that
make the work consistent, even when the writing doesn't. It's magic.
I can't watch her show now, because I loathe the writing. But I love
her work. Barr isn't in her category. Mattson approaches it. There's
a lot more in Mattson's performance than is on the page. I can't say that
about Barr, although I won't say she's a bad actress. Just not a great one.
--Carolyn
>In other words, only for about the last year, year and a half, has Ms
>Buttinski REALLY started to annoy me.
Yes, I think she used to have some substance and I liked Brooke
greatly at one time. But they have been messing her character
up so badly that it's disgusting. That is why I am now an
applicant for AFAC Bah-rooke. Sad, but there is nothing else to
be done.
--
Anne Kaider (a.ka...@ix.netcom.com)
President - ILJC
Applicant AFAC Bah-rooke
>>Kathy
>When she was doing the Edmund/Tad thing, even though I desperately wanted her
>back with Edmund and she veered the other way, I didn't actually loathe the
>character, just her choices, so to speak.
y
My suspicion about Brooke's downward spiral after the Edmund/Tad thing
(which was the last time I *rushed* home to my VCR every day and would have
shot myself before missing AMC) was that the writers originally intended to
have an Edmund/Brooke reunion. But along came Eva LaRue andTPTB saw her
chemistry with John Callhan, yanked Maria's storyline out of Trevor's range,
and gave us the Santos-Greys.
I would have *much* preferred a Trevor/Natalie divorce over Trevor's
fascination with the brain surgeon and a Brooke/Edmund His-Girl-Fridayesque
marriage to the madness which has since ensued: the sainting of the dead Nat
and thedestruction of Brooke.
Courtenay "Them damn Santoses ruin everything" Keough
>It's been popular to say that there are no heroines in real life, so there
>shouldn't be in the soaps. People aren't just black and white; they have
>a lot of shades of gray. Well, duh. Heroines have shades of grey too,
>because they're human. But the human character does indeed include
>some brilliant whites. And perhaps exploring that in a person known
>predominantly known for her darker side has been what has kept me
>watching AMC for the last two years. It hasn't been for Brooke.
>--Carolyn
Carolyn, your post comparing the performances (and writing) of Janet and
Brooke, and their semiological status as heroine (and supposed heroine) is
masterful. I agree 100% with everything you've said, and I bow before your
skill in saying it. (The "well duh" added a nice informal touch, as well!)
If only the writers acknowledged what 60% of us can't stand about Brooke, I
would take to the character much better. If Brooke could admit, honestly, her
numerous errors in judgement and regret them, that would be a worth AMC
moment. I don't expect it to ever happen.
Brooke reminds me of my mother (Please God Don't Let Mumsie Read This!) Mom's
very bright, very sensitive, very generous, very well-meaning, and she's the
biggest Buttinski this side of Brooke and absolutely refuses to notice when
she's crossed a line, no matter how painfully obvious to even the most
tangential third-party. If you disagree with her behaviour at all, even
nicely, her eyes water and she sinks into the well-meaning martyr routine.
I'm sure many if not most of us have similar mothers. But do we want to watch
*them* on a soap? No way!
My main beef with Brooke isn't even her character--it's believable and human
for her to err, screw-up, interfere, mope, etc.--it's that the writers insist
that nonetheless she's Perfect and all the other characters treat her as
Perfect.
Only Janet seems to see her for what she really is ... unfortunately I'm
certain that the writers mean for us to think Janet's nuts and clearly wrong
about Brooke. She's not, and she isn't.
>>It's been popular to say that there are no heroines in real life, so there
>>shouldn't be in the soaps. People aren't just black and white; they have
>>a lot of shades of gray. ....
>>--Carolyn
>
>Carolyn, your post comparing the performances (and writing) of Janet and
>Brooke, and their semiological status as heroine (and supposed heroine) is
>masterful. I agree 100% with everything you've said, and I bow before your
>skill in saying it.
Thanks, Ashley. Because you've never been a OLTL viewer, you may
not recognise that a lot of what I say above comes from a hard learned
lesson at OLTL. About 5 years ago, ABC in its very finite wisdom
ditched a successful production team at OLTL and got a Hollywood
hack as Executive Producer, and an ivory tower poetry professor as
headwriter, and for years, they spewed out this "shades of grey" stuff,
as if no writer before had ever had the concept. They dissed the
concept of "heroine", which has been a OLTL hallmark from its Agnes
Nixon days. And, IMHO, they ruined the show, and killed every Agnes
Nixon touch, while claiming to be faithful to Agnes's original vision.
The result was that a few million people tuned out. I switched back to
AMC, where Nixon is a lot more visible. And ABC now has rolled
a few heads and hired soap people who will have to reinvent the wheel
at OLTL.
I'm a lifelong soap fan, and have had a lot of favorites over the years.
The prototype heroine for me has been Erika Slezak's Viki Lord. It's
the staff by which I measure all others. I remember earlier heroines,
like Jessie Brewer (the martyr), Grandma Kate, Alice Horton, and
Mama Bauer. They have a place in history, but Viki is the stuff a modern
heroine is made of. It can be done. They don't have to be perfect
people. They can be flawed as a crowbar killer. But they have
to be sincere, and they have some ability to see beyond self. It's
a basic element in good character writing, which is the essence of
soap opera.
--Carolyn (It also helps if the actress is exceptional.)
I remember my mom and grandmother watching "As The World Turns"
and "Secret Storm" all the time. I'm guessing that I thought
that AMC was much hipper than those old fogey soaps. :))
J. Marie
FAC Brooke - CEO & Pres. BL&P
FAC Pine Valley Bank *** TREASURER:Big Dratsa<tm> *** email-...@flash.net
Jeff Martin got me hooked. I had the *biggest* secret crush on Charles
Frank, and look how he turned out. There's no accounting for taste.
Another newbie,
Terri Mayson
I was in 7th grade, a sweet innocent of just 12 in 1970 when I began my
AMC watching. Even managed to skip out of school to go home and see it
many days.
Sean "Mammaries, Like the Corners of My Mind..." Griffin
FAC WobblyCam (and Weeble!)
BL&P
: Well, I've hated her since I was a tiny wee babe, round about 8 which is when
: I started watching the show.
How many of you ratsters (this shows how long I've been away from the
group - I was really surprised when I had seen that it had split into
networks :-) Anyway, my question is:
How did you get hooked on AMC, and how old were you?
I was also about 8 years old when I started watching it; my mom watched
it with fervor and I quickly got myself absorbed into the plots, because
she had told me who everyone was and what their problems were :-)
Hi, I'd like to re-introduce myself. My name is Christine O'Brien, and I
am currently living in Boston. I have four cats (!), a mouse, and
I love AMC.
-Newbie Christine
I started in 1978 or so, when I was 6 (take *that* greg) but didn't watch
religiously until I was a mature 8 in 1980.
Christine Malcom (cm...@midway.uchicago.edu) Department of Anthropology
Reigning Queen of AFAC Brooke
FAC Dixie's Kidney, Candidate for Forensic Anthropologist to TPTB
"This is ridiculous! What am I doing here? I'm in the wrong story...."
"Why not both instead? There's the answer if you're clever. Have a child for
warmth and a baker for bread and a prince for...whatever..."
The Baker's Wife---Into the Woods
--
>
> How many of you ratsters (this shows how long I've been away from the
> group - I was really surprised when I had seen that it had split into
> networks :-) Anyway, my question is:
>
> How did you get hooked on AMC, and how old were you?
I started watching AMC the first or second year it was on and I was about
12 years old. I was already addicted to GH because of my grandmother
(Parents who do soaps have kids who do soaps.) We had just move to a farm
in NJ from the suburbs of Philadelphia and I had no friends, no school,
no life. I kept with it on my days off and summers and of course, in
college were I started watching OLTL to kill time.
Lynn "getting out the cane" Murray
My very first memory of AMC was back in 1980: I remember vaguely some plot
about Phoebe setting up Brooke to go to the Willow Lake cabin and meet Tom
so they could reconcile, which they did after a pillow fight.
But I really got hooked on AMC in the fall of 1983 (I was 20 and away at
college) with the Tad-Liza-Marion mattress tag team. Before that I was
really a GH fan, I learned english watching Alan and Monica Q fighting.
--
Millie Savard I "A 9 to 5 job is perfectly
Montreal, Canada I respectable but darling, who wants
email: bt...@freenet.carleton.ca I to be perfectly respectable"
FAC Laura - LCAS #1 Cheerleader/Memo pad I Marion Colby
I was in 7th grade, too, but in 1977. I had just befriended the new
girl in school, Joanne, who took me to her house at lunch time to
watch it. Erica was married to Tom and hiding her birth control pills.
As a young girl in Catholic school, this was the perfect storyline to
get me hooked!
Actually, Joanne is responsible for my two longest-running obsessions:
AMC and the Beatles. Thanks, Joanne!
--
- Judi -
{jmf...@uci.edu}
I started watching AMC when I was in grammar school. My best friend got me
got me hooked
While I have no idea of the year, month or date I started watching, I can
tell you that I watched my first AMC episode...
(Here it comes True Confessions time)
the week the Partridge Family's second album was released.
Tamara "Memory is a funny thing" Sue
FAC Alfred
SPERM Cruise Director
My mom watched it on her lunch hour. Erica was my mom's nickname in the
family, because of her own diva-esque atittudes. My earliest memories of
the show are Nick and Erica and Mona, the Brents and the Martins, Joe and
Ruth. Then I remember Tad showing up, and Ray Gardner, and Opal. Also
Donna and Billy Clyde and Estelle. Then Ellen and Mark Dalton and Devon,
Brooke and Phoebe, Langely. Then Palmer, Ross, Adam, Natalie, Cliff,
Nina. Trevor and Hayley and Tom and Livia.
Then nothing for years as GL and non-soap activities won out. Tuned back
in at Dixie's Wedding (I think) to see Janet's return, and then the abortive
wedding to Trevor a year or so later. Then found out about Michael and
got hooked again. Love Liza, Dixie, Opal, like Michael, Janet, Tad,
Taylips, Hayley, Mateo, can't stand Noah, BooHoolia, or Edmund/Maria, or
Kelsey's storyline. Hate CYBW.
Psychic Shawn
******************************************************
"Oh, poor Blake, as wrong as you are infertile."
-Dinah (Mr. Rich)
********************************sh...@husc.harvard.edu
I have watched from the beginning! That was 1970, I think,
and I was a Junior in high school. But now that I think about
it, I'm not sure HOW I got hooked, since I was supposed
to be in school during the show. At least in college
you could schedule your classes around it. So I must
not have been hooked until 1971/72.
Boy the good old days with Tara, Phil, Chuck and
NICK DAVIS, who I still miss.
Karyn (Grace) Davis (no relation)
For years, I watched AMC whenever I was at home (sick, not working, etc.) and
it was not until I got my first VCR (1985) that I started watching daily. Since
then I've missed very few episodes. I'll probably continue to watch no matter
what TPTB do - even if the unthinkable rumor of ending Janet's story is true.
Carole Kever
: Jeff Martin got me hooked. I had the *biggest* secret crush on Charles
: Frank, and look how he turned out. There's no accounting for taste.
FAC Dr. Jeff Martin on:
Hey, Ter! I'm *crushed*! I thought I turned out pretty darned well, if
I do say so myself. Sorry you don't see my good qualities -- maybe it's
just that I'm not around much anymore...
FAC off
Hallie-lujah here...
I was an "original" viewer, and remember the first episodes. Let's see,
I was !^ years old (OK, OK, that's 16). Phil was gorgeous (as played by
Richard Hatch), Tara was sweet, Chuck was a baby-faced tender-hearted
guy, Phoebe was meddling full force in *everybody's* business (especially
her hubby Charles and Mona's). But, yes, dear Dr. Jeff was my secret
heartthrob; and when he fell in love with Mary, I thought their love
story was the greatest thing imaginable! Ah, the good ol' days!
Hallie-lujah
FAC Dr. Jeff Martin
Magdalena
>Sean wrote:
>>when Erica was arrested for murdering her agent/lover)
>>settled things once and for all...
>This is *exactly* when I started watching as well. You mean Kent Bogart
>right? I am not sure the year tho, but i would guess *around* 1983....
Oh gosh no, I'm talking about 1974-75, when it was eventually revealed
that Mona had been the one to kill the guy when she was in some drug-
induced haze!
Sean "By Kent Bogart's Time, I Had Been Watching for Almost Ten Years!"
I truly started watching with Myrtle as Kitty's mother!
Matt"Pheobe was so good about setting poor Kitty up!"
FAC Myrtle