Volume 5: Why you shouldn't hate Japan and other assorted opinions
Hunter Felt
Okay, okay, "Invasion of the Neptune Men" was bad... REALLY BAD (IMHO
worst than "Manos" by far...) but you can't blame Japan on that... there
are plenty of things that come from Japan that are great. So, let me
rip off David Letterman's bits (He won't mind, it's not like he's done
anything funny with them recently.) and present the "Top Ten Reasons Not
to Hate Japan"
10. Violent porn comics
9. They took two atomic bombs and STILL waited a while to surrender...
that takes moxie, baby.
8. They produce a lot of good technology and cars and such...
7. Anime (Sure, sure "Project A-ko" was corny, but "Akira" was awesome
(in the classical sense of awe-inspiring), VERY confusing... but I liked
"Lost Highway" so it didn't affect me")
6. Pizzicato Five: Best damn pure pop group on the face of the planet.
5. Cibo Matto: Another great Japanese-born band.
4. Godzilla (The REAL Godzilla)
3. Better yet, Gamera... ('cause he's really sweet yadda yadda ad
infinitum)
2. They went from a backwards isolationist, non-technology based
culture into a high-powered, well-oiled Kick-ass machine in a time span
that it takes a normal country to figure out how to complete roads.
1. They're not France!
Subject 2: Endless Chase or not?
Due to the cliffhanger at the end of 906 there has been some argument
about whether Pearl should return to the "endless chase." Here's my two
cents: yes. So far, the Castle Forrester situation has not led to
anything interesting. I prefer the old
situation far better. It was fun tuning in the next week to see what
would happen next. Pearl/ Bobo/ Brain Guy work the best, in my opinion,
when reacting towards various situations. My favorite place,
personally, was "Roman Times," (but maybe I just liked the chemistry
between Pearl and Flavia. "Slut? I mean, what?")
The ten movies I liked (but probably shouldn't have), and the ten movies
I didn't like (but everyone says I should)
In honor of AFL's top 100 list... I'll create my own lists. One is for
the movies that nobody else likes... but managed to get a place in my
heart. The other is for movies that everyone raves about, but I would
rather rip apart my eyelids than watch.
10 movies I like (but shouldn't)
1. (tie) In the Army Now/ Happy Gilmore: Yes, I know Paulie Shore and
Adam Sandler are the antichrists... but these movies had a lot of funny
moments in them.
A broken clock is still right twice a day.
2. Mallrats: Who says this was a sophmore slump? Not as funny as
Clerks, but still a very funny film.
3. My Fellow Americans: Check it out, it isn't Grumpy Old Men 13, but
another very funny movie that no one watched.
4. Lost Highway: I heard a lot of bad stuff about this, but it's
fantastic...
5. Grease: It's great, screw you.
6. Hair: See above.
7. The Fifth Element: Short on logic... long on fun. Milla Jovovich
is hot, despite being stuck in the bozo wig.
8. Airplane II: For a retread on the original, it was hilarious
(William Shatner was great in it: "They're beeping and they're
flashing... flashing and beeping... beeping and beeping! Make them
stop!"
9. Rock N' Roll High School Forever: I can't believe I just wrote
that...
10. The "Nightmare on Elm Street" saga: Barring No.2 which just was
awful (even by Freddy standards)
Runners Up: "Earth Girls are Easy," The Brady Bunch movies, Robin Hood:
Men in Tights
Top ten overated movies
1. Reality Bites: Proof positive that romantic comedy is an oxymoron.
Even Ben Stiller and Janeanne Garafalo cannot save this movie from being
very, VERY boring. It's also docked points for spawning that hideous
Lisa Loeb single and bringing back The Knack.
2. Heathers: How not to do a black comedy: Exhibit A. Christian Slater
does the worst Jack Nicholson impression known in mankind and somehow
gets a career. Not a bad movie really, but it just isn't funny, how it
got a cult is beyond me.
3. I Love You to Death: How Not to Do a Black Comedy: Exhibit B.
Maybe I just don't like Tracy Ullman. (She did give us the Simpsons and
had a really good hit song, "They Don't Know About Us" in the 80s, so
I'm not going to complain.)
4. "Young Einstein": I just didn't find it funny. Maybe I was spolied
by seeing "Blazing Saddles" first.
5. "Caddyshack": I didn't find this really funny either, Bill Murray
was a hoot in it,
though.
6. "Clueless": Any movie where I start feeling an irresistable hatred
towards the main protagonist is a bad one. You're supposed to give your
protagonist at least SOME redeeming values. (This was also my opinion
on "Natural Born Killers." Course, they weren't any redeeming values in
ANY of the characters in that movie.)
7. Blade Runner: Tried to watch it... made a very valiant effort. I
found it boring... I don't know, it was a long time ago. Maybe I wasn't
old enough for it. Maybe I just have an overwhelming hatred towards
Rutger Hauer (good actor who always manages to pick the worst of the
worst movie-wise)
8. The Abyss: See above.
9. Carrie: THIS is the best Stephen King adaption? Has plenty of camp
value, though.
10. Easy Rider: Ponderous, over-long, and they kill off Jack
Nicholson! Fairly decent movie ruined by incredibly slow pacing. (see
also 2001: A Space Odyssey, but that ending was worth it)... of course
I'm from the MTV generation and have the attention span of Brian Wilson
on speed...
That's all for now...
OdiePal
Hunter Felt wrote:
>2. They went from a backwards isolationist, non-technology based
>culture into a high-powered, well-oiled Kick-ass machine in a time span
>that it takes a normal country to figure out how to complete roads.
Yeah, but isn't that because we felt really bad about bombing them so we
stupidly helped them get back on their feet? My father is a historian and I
coulda sworn he said something along those lines once. Of course, I once swore
that I saw a group of people walking down the street and upon closer
inspection, they turned out to be those orange bags that the county leaves
along side the road, so maybe I'm not the best person in this subject.
-Christine
"I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I
generalize, I don't care."
-Dave Barry
Hunter Felt
OdiePal wrote
>
>
> Yeah, but isn't that because we felt really bad about bombing them so we
> stupidly helped them get back on their feet? My father is a historian and I
> coulda sworn he said something along those lines once.
Probably correct... but that's not the right time period. I'm speaking of the
time period between Matthew Perry "opened" up Japan to trade with the U.S. (via
the use of heavy atteilery) and the period where the kicked Russia's butt in the
Ruso-Japanese war with their superior power (They didn't have any steamships only
about 40 years later...)
> Of course, I once swore
> that I saw a group of people walking down the street and upon closer
> inspection, they turned out to be those orange bags that the county leaves
> along side the road, so maybe I'm not the best person in this subject.
>
I've done that sort of thing more times than I would care to remember...
everything from lamp posts to clothing lying on the ground becomes a person...
TCurryFan
"odi...@aol.com (OdiePal)" said:
>Hunter Felt wrote:
>
>>2. They went from a backwards isolationist,
>>non-technology based culture into a high-powered,
>>well-oiled Kick-ass machine in a time span that it takes a
>>normal country to figure out how to complete roads.
>
>Yeah, but isn't that because we felt really bad about
>bombing them so we stupidly helped them get back on
>their feet?
Yep.
It amazing what you can do when you don't have to spend any (or hardly any)
money on defense because other countries are doing it for you.
>-Christine
>
>"I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the
>case when I generalize, I don't care."
>-Dave Barry
Catherine Johnson. I hope nobody find that insulting- I'm actually quite fond
of Japan.
TCur...@aol.com ---------- Sailor Andromeda ---------- MiSTie #75, 125
Sailor Uranus: "A world where children stay as children?"
Sailor Neptune: "Becoming an adult makes it more fun..."
-_Sailor_Moon_Super_S_Movie_
Stephen Cooke
On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Hunter Felt wrote:
> 9. They took two atomic bombs and STILL waited a while to surrender...
> that takes moxie, baby.
Damn straight!
swac
Halifax, NS
am...@ccn.cs.dal.ca
"Slugbug!" *whack* "Oww!"
What this country needs is plenty of...
____ ____ ______
|_ \ / __| ____ / _____> __________
| \/ | ____|_ _| / / |_ _| |_ ____ |
| | / \\ \ / / | | | | \|
/ /\ / | / ** \\ \/ / | | | |__
/ / \/ | | | **** | > < | | | __|
/ / _| |_ \ ** // /\ \ | | | |
/ / |___| \____// / _\ \_ _| |_ __| |_____
<_/ ___/ / |_____||______||__________/
<____/
Mike Czaplinski
Hunter Felt wrote:
>
> OdiePal wrote
>
> >
> >
> > Yeah, but isn't that because we felt really bad about bombing them so we
> > coulda sworn he said something along those lines once.
>
> Probably correct... but that's not the right time period. I'm speaking of the
> time period between Matthew Perry "opened" up Japan to trade with the U.S. (via
> the use of heavy atteilery) and the period where the kicked Russia's butt in the
> Ruso-Japanese war with their superior power (They didn't have any steamships only
> about 40 years later...)
And don't forget his fabulous work on FRIENDS....
Mike "Wait. Which Matthew Perry are we talking about here?" Czaplinski
ekim.czaplinski<at>washingtoncd.rnc.moc
Mike Czaplinski
Michelle V. wrote:
>
> In article <358DC601...@mediaone.net>, Hunter Felt
> <hf...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > "Top Ten Reasons Not
> > to Hate Japan"
>
> > 4. Godzilla (The REAL Godzilla)
>
> lucky stars they're not Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich....
I think the people of Japan should hunt down Dean Devlin and Roland
Emmerich and CAP them in the knees....
Mike "After doing the bamboo shoot thing, of course" Czaplinski
ekim.czaplinski<at>washingtoncd.rcn.moc
Carl Burke
Mike Czaplinski wrote:
> Michelle V. wrote:
...
> > I think the people of Japan should get down on their knees and thank their
> > lucky stars they're not Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich....
>
> I think the people of Japan should hunt down Dean Devlin and Roland
> Emmerich and CAP them in the knees....
I think the women of Japan should get down on thier knees
and negotiate better treatment.
--
--------------------------------------------------
Carl Burke, cbu...@mitre.org -- le nu ko batci mi kei cu zdile
My opinions are mine and mine alone, unless you
agree with them. Then I'll share.
--------------------------------------------------
"Ahh, the smell of leather, the taste of boots.
Doesn't get any better than this." -- Rich "Gentle Pressure" Sheridan
--------------------------------------------------
Norb42
In "Golden Boy", OdiePal wrote:
>>2. They went from a backwards isolationist, non-technology based
>>culture into a high-powered, well-oiled Kick-ass machine in a time span
>>that it takes a normal country to figure out how to complete roads.
>
>stupidly helped them get back on their feet? My father is a historian and I
>swore
>that I saw a group of people walking down the street and upon closer
>inspection, they turned out to be those orange bags that the county leaves
>along side the road, so maybe I'm not the best person in this subject.
>
>
As my eighth-grade history teacher liked to say, America is much better at
fixing other countries than it is at fixing itself. Japan should get most of
the credit, though, because its people, to the bafflement of all, actually
adopted the rules America had come up with (and, needless to say, never
followed itself) on How To Make Your Nation Prosper. US troops stationed in
Japan after WWII were puzzled to find the Japanese agreeable, hard-working, and
eager to learn. Silly Japanese, letting us help them rebuild their economy!
You'd never catch Americans taking advice from some other country!
Norb
I mean, really. Most of 'em don't even have the sense to speak real words!
James LeMosy
Hunter Felt wrote in message <358DD41B...@mediaone.net>...
>Probably correct... but that's not the right time period. I'm speaking of
the
>time period between Matthew Perry "opened" up Japan to trade with the U.S.
(via
>the use of heavy atteilery) and the period where the kicked Russia's butt
in the
>Ruso-Japanese war with their superior power (They didn't have any
steamships only
>about 40 years later...)
>
Matthew Perry opened up Japan to trade with the U.S.?! Wow, he's a funny TV
sitcom star, and a diplomat!
>> Of course, I once swore
>> that I saw a group of people walking down the street and upon closer
>> inspection, they turned out to be those orange bags that the county
leaves
>> along side the road, so maybe I'm not the best person in this subject.
>>
>
I always thought those orange bags were from lazy people who just don't care
that Halloween was five months ago.
>I've done that sort of thing more times than I would care to remember...
>everything from lamp posts to clothing lying on the ground becomes a
person...
>
>> -Christine
>>
>> "I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I
>> generalize, I don't care."
>> -Dave Barry
James LeMosy
"I think all people who generalize are idiots." -Tex Murphy, P.I.
Ryan Jackson
In article <358DC601...@mediaone.net>, hf...@mediaone.net says...
>
>Okay, okay, "Invasion of the Neptune Men" was bad... REALLY BAD (IMHO
>worst than "Manos" by far...) but you can't blame Japan on that...
Of course you shouldn't hate Japan for that. I mean, sure, "Adolescent
Sex" and "Obscure Alternatives" were glam-punk piles of twaddle, but
they really cleaned up their act for "Quiet Life"...I loathe that album,
but "Life In Tokyo" is real nifty. "GTP" and "Tin Drum" are classic
albums. I defy you to find an early eighties live album as excellent
as "Oil On Canvas".
David Sylvian was pretty cool before he imploded upon his pretentiousness.
--
Ryan Jackson (rjac...@southwind.net)
JimL2
I love how this was displayed on my AOL newsreader:
"Volume 5: Why you shouldn't hate Japan and other ass"
Jim "Oh, you know, I should probably read the post..." Lauwers
JimL2
I'm bored, so I'm just gonna respond. let's all look in on the fun, shall we?!?
Hunter Felt wrote:
>Okay, okay, "Invasion of the Neptune Men" was bad... REALLY BAD (IMHO
>worst than "Manos" by far...)
I totally agree. I liked "Manos." Howefer, every time I try to watch "Space
Children," I always fall asleep. Any one else have this problem?
>but you can't blame Japan on that...
Oh, yes you can! That's the freedom of this country! You can blame anything on
anyone at any time! (Note: This also works for suing people)
>there are plenty of things that come from >Japan that are great. So, let me
>rip off David Letterman's bits (He won't mind, it's not like he's done
>anything funny with them recently.)
That is correct.
>and present the "Top Ten Reasons Not
>to Hate Japan"
Number 10: there's more of them than there are you, so they'll kick your ass.
>
>10. Violent porn comics
Hooray! That's probably their second largest national product.
>9. They took two atomic bombs and STILL waited a while to surrender...
>that takes moxie, baby.
Or extreme stupidity.
>8. They produce a lot of good technology and cars and such...
Yeah, but frequently the instructions won't make sense, their CEOs have comical
names you can't pronounce (making it near impossible for arguments about video
game companies), and they're driving us Americans out of business(!)
>7. Anime (Sure, sure "Project A-ko" was corny, but "Akira" was awesome
>(in the classical sense of awe-inspiring), VERY confusing... but I liked
>"Lost Highway" so it didn't affect me")
>6. Pizzicato Five: Best damn pure pop group on the face of the planet.
Sure, sure, but it helps if you can understand what they're saying.
>
>5. Cibo Matto: Another great Japanese-born band.
Sounds like an Italian race car. Never heard of 'em.
>4. Godzilla (The REAL Godzilla)
Good point
>3. Better yet, Gamera... ('cause he's really sweet yadda yadda ad
>infinitum)
He's friend to children! (and I never even saw that movie(s))
>2. They went from a backwards isolationist, non-technology based
>culture into a high-powered, well-oiled Kick-ass machine in a time span
>that it takes a normal country to figure out how to complete roads.
Yeah, but we (and Europe) had the will power to make them! We stormed right up
to their harbor in our boats of war, and we demanded that they open trade with
the West! Yeah!
>1. They're not France!
I wholly agree. That's the great thing about most countries.
>
>Subject 2: Endless Chase or not?
>Due to the cliffhanger at the end of 906 there has been some argument
>about whether Pearl should return to the "endless chase." Here's my two
>cents: yes. So far, the Castle Forrester situation has not led to
>anything interesting. I prefer the old
>situation far better. It was fun tuning in the next week to see what
>would happen next. Pearl/ Bobo/ Brain Guy work the best, in my opinion,
>when reacting towards various situations. My favorite place,
>personally, was "Roman Times," (but maybe I just liked the chemistry
>between Pearl and Flavia. "Slut? I mean, what?")
I agree, although I had no favorite setting.
>
>The ten movies I liked (but probably shouldn't have), and the ten movies
>I didn't like (but everyone says I should)
>
>In honor of AFL's top 100 list... I'll create my own lists. One is for
>the movies that nobody else likes... but managed to get a place in my
>heart. The other is for movies that everyone raves about, but I would
>rather rip apart my eyelids than watch.
>
>10 movies I like (but shouldn't)
>1. (tie) In the Army Now/ Happy Gilmore: Yes, I know Paulie Shore and
>Adam Sandler are the antichrists... but these movies had a lot of funny
>moments in them.
>A broken clock is still right twice a day.
Ooooh! Ouch! Hey, didn't Lewis Carrol say that (as the Mad Hatter)?
>2. Mallrats: Who says this was a sophmore slump? Not as funny as
>Clerks, but still a very funny film.
Didn't see it, sounded stupid and with a low level of comedy.
>3. My Fellow Americans: Check it out, it isn't Grumpy Old Men 13, but
>another very funny movie that no one watched.
I saw this one, and I thought it was pretty funny.
>4. Lost Highway: I heard a lot of bad stuff about this, but it's
>fantastic...
I heard a lot of bad stuff too, but didn't see it (I know no one cares, I'm
just doing this to pass time)
>5. Grease: It's great, screw you.
It sucks, screw you.
>6. Hair: See above.
Never saw it, but just for effect, see above.
>7. The Fifth Element: Short on logic... long on fun. Milla Jovovich
>is hot, despite being stuck in the bozo wig.
Oh-ho! Now we see where your allience truly lies, Frenchie!
>8. Airplane II: For a retread on the original, it was hilarious
>(William Shatner was great in it: "They're beeping and they're
>flashing... flashing and beeping... beeping and beeping! Make them
>stop!"
I saw the start, but it was pretty stupid (I mean, the part with the dog that
pretended to die, that was stupid)
>9. Rock N' Roll High School Forever: I can't believe I just wrote
>that...
I don't even want to know....
>10. The "Nightmare on Elm Street" saga: Barring No.2 which just was
>awful (even by Freddy standards)
>Runners Up: "Earth Girls are Easy," The Brady Bunch movies, Robin Hood:
>Men in Tights
>
>Top ten overated movies
>1. Reality Bites: Proof positive that romantic comedy is an oxymoron.
>Even Ben Stiller and Janeanne Garafalo cannot save this movie from being
>very, VERY boring. It's also docked points for spawning that hideous
>Lisa Loeb single and bringing back The Knack.
I agree! Just from the movie trailer I could tell it sucked!
>2. Heathers: How not to do a black comedy: Exhibit A. Christian Slater
>does the worst Jack Nicholson impression known in mankind and somehow
>gets a career. Not a bad movie really, but it just isn't funny, how it
>got a cult is beyond me.
Never saw it, but I think that Exhibit A. should be any movie with Chris Rock
in it. Chris Rock, if you're out there, bite me. (I know, but it just sounded
nice)
>3. I Love You to Death: How Not to Do a Black Comedy: Exhibit B.
>Maybe I just don't like Tracy Ullman. (She did give us the Simpsons and
>had a really good hit song, "They Don't Know About Us" in the 80s, so
>I'm not going to complain.)
No, she didn't bring us The Simpson, Matt Groening did. And James L. Brooks,
and the tireless staff.
>4. "Young Einstein": I just didn't find it funny. Maybe I was spolied
>by seeing "Blazing Saddles" first.
I saw part of it on ComCen, and it looked stupid, so I channeled.
>5. "Caddyshack": I didn't find this really funny either, Bill Murray
>was a hoot in it,
>though.
Some parts were funny, some weren't. I think it's highly over rated
>6. "Clueless": Any movie where I start feeling an irresistable hatred
>towards the main protagonist is a bad one. You're supposed to give your
>protagonist at least SOME redeeming values. (This was also my opinion
>on "Natural Born Killers." Course, they weren't any redeeming values in
>ANY of the characters in that movie.)
I avoided the movie, I avoid the show.
>7. Blade Runner: Tried to watch it... made a very valiant effort. I
>found it boring... I don't know, it was a long time ago. Maybe I wasn't
>old enough for it. Maybe I just have an overwhelming hatred towards
>Rutger Hauer (good actor who always manages to pick the worst of the
>worst movie-wise)
Haven't seen it.
>8. The Abyss: See above.
Now, I thought this was actually pretty good. Well, actually, no, I thought the
novel by Orson Scott Card was good, the movie kinda' lacked without the book.
>9. Carrie: THIS is the best Stephen King adaption? Has plenty of camp
>value, though.
Never saw it.
>10. Easy Rider: Ponderous, over-long, and they kill off Jack
>Nicholson! Fairly decent movie ruined by incredibly slow pacing. (see
>also 2001: A Space Odyssey, but that ending was worth it)... of course
Yeah, that got a lot of criticism for being confusing. It's just another
example of people not bothering to get off their fat asses and make the effort
to READ A BOOK SOME TIME! JEEZ! It's not Kubrick's fault if he can't fully turn
the book into a movie! YOU try making a movie some time! It's hard as hell to
do narrations, let alone complex descriptions of what's going on!
>I'm from the MTV generation and have the attention span of Brian Wilson
>on speed...
Oh, yeah? Well, I'm from the post-Mtv Generation (Mtv's actually pretty old),
and I think a bunch of people in a car, or a house is STUPID! SHOW SOME GODDAMN
VIDOES, WHY DON'T YA'!!!! YOU GOT SOME DAMN NERVE CALLIN' THIS _MUSIC_
TELEVISION! ARRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!
Phew. G'night ev'rybody!
Jim "Sorry, just needed to vent, there...: Lauwers
Matt Elcock
Hunter Felt (hf...@mediaone.net) wrote:
: In honor of AFL's top 100 list... I'll create my own lists. One is for
: the movies that nobody else likes... but managed to get a place in my
: heart. The other is for movies that everyone raves about, but I would
: rather rip apart my eyelids than watch.
: 10 movies I like (but shouldn't)
[snip]
: 6. Hair: See above. (Ed Note - He likes it... for no apparent reason)
Oh boy...
First off, let me state the good points of the Hair movie, coming from
someone who was in an IMHO decent production of the stage version.
1. Nell Carter
2. "Aquarius"
3. "I Got Life"
And, that was it.
The problem with "Hair" the movie is that they tried to give a plot to a
script that _has no plot to begin with_!!!
_Hair_ is a about a lot of images and ideals of 1968, and one person's
personal decision about his decision to go to Vietnam or not. By having
Berger going to Vietnam instead of Claude, the whole point of the musical
was lost.
The fact is that a lot of people went to Vietnam and died, even though
they didn't want to go. However, they decided to leave because they
didn't have any real reason to leave.
It's about personal choices, not one person's bad luck.
Therefore, the movie sucked.
Or maybe I'm just implanting my character's world view on the musical...
who knows.
--
Matt "Pinwiz - BTW, I decided that my character died in Vietnam on July
19, 1969, of some enemy attack that he never saw coming." Elcock
Troopers Pit 1993 - 1996
http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~pinwiz
http://surf.to/troopers
-----------------------
Darkhop
Hunter Felt wrote:
>
> Okay, okay, "Invasion of the Neptune Men" was bad... REALLY BAD (IMHO
> worst than "Manos" by far...) but you can't blame Japan on that... there
> are plenty of things that come from Japan that are great. So, let me
> rip off David Letterman's bits (He won't mind, it's not like he's done
> anything funny with them recently.) and present the "Top Ten Reasons Not
> to Hate Japan"
>
> 10. Violent porn comics
Take off the "violent" and I'm with ya.
> 9. They took two atomic bombs and STILL waited a while to surrender...
> that takes moxie, baby.
Actually, that takes an ingrained stupidity as regards honor and "face"
and what (and WHO!) should be sacrificed for it. There were men sitting
around the Imperial table who felt *every* Japanese should perish rather
than a few them bear the ignominy of being the first in Japan's *entire*
history to suffer defeat by an external foe.
> 8. They produce a lot of good technology and cars and such...
Yep. My 10-year-old Toyota truck is rusted and cranky, but it starts up
every time and has *never* left me stranded anywhere.
> 7. Anime (Sure, sure "Project A-ko" was corny, but "Akira" was awesome
> (in the classical sense of awe-inspiring), VERY confusing... but I liked
> "Lost Highway" so it didn't affect me")
What? You lost me on that last sentence there.
> 6. Pizzicato Five: Best damn pure pop group on the face of the planet.
I'll have to take your word on that.
> 5. Cibo Matto: Another great Japanese-born band.
Bow Wow? Plastic? Pink Lady?!?
> 4. Godzilla (The REAL Godzilla)
Hard to dispute. Especially now.
> 3. Better yet, Gamera... ('cause he's really sweet yadda yadda ad
> infinitum)
Actually because they updated him LOTS better than Toho did Gojira.
> 2. They went from a backwards isolationist, non-technology based
> culture into a high-powered, well-oiled Kick-ass machine in a time span
> that it takes a normal country to figure out how to complete roads.
--and look where it led (at first).
> 1. They're not France!
Ba-DUM bum! *tsshhh*
[snip the rest -- I'm tired]
Yers,
Gramps
Darkhop
OdiePal wrote:
>
> Hunter Felt wrote:
>
> >2. They went from a backwards isolationist, non-technology based
> >culture into a high-powered, well-oiled Kick-ass machine in a time span
> >that it takes a normal country to figure out how to complete roads.
>
> stupidly helped them get back on their feet?
Wrong era. I believe he's talking about Commodore Perry forcing Japan
"open" in the 1860s.
Quick history lesson:
If you know any of the story in "Shogun", then it's worth knowing also
that all those 'feudal' fireworks that made such a bang-up story ended
during that era when the lord (played by Toshiro Mifune) defeated the
other chiefs and consolidated his power. This was around 1615. What
followed was -- *nothing*. In historical terms, anyway, where wars,
disasters, and political upheavals are the only criteria for paying
attention to anything.
Anyway, for two and a half centuries Japan enjoyed peace and civil
order, and their old samurai suddenly had to deal with their equivalent
of credit card debt to a newly rising merchant class, but beyond this
everything was effectively at a standstill. Then Perry came along with
1863's version of a free trade agreement ("Open up or else!"), which
gave Japan a *very* quick lesson as to what Europeans had been cooking
up in the meanwhile.
What followed was the deposing of the entire Shogun office and the
restoration of the Emperor as a *ruler* and not just a symbolic lackey.
(This was done very quickly after noticing the colonizing tendencies of
these kee-razy Euro-Amelicans.) He waved his hand, said "Modernize!" and
whoosh--by 1804 they were clobbering the Russian Navy at Port Arthur and
thereby scaring the bejezuz out of everybody else.
And during WW2, a country the size of California, with few natural
resources at their disposal, held off defeat for a hell of a lot longer
than anyone with those specs should expect to.
Well I kinda went off on a tangent there, so forgive me. I find that
country fascinating, and I've read more on their history than my own. I
was trying to give an idea of their uniqueness and why so much Japan-
bashing is off-base.
Yers,
Yabanjin
Judith Jacobs
Norb42 wrote:
>
> In "Golden Boy", OdiePal wrote:
> >>2. They went from a backwards isolationist, non-technology based
> >>culture into a high-powered, well-oiled Kick-ass machine in a time span
> >>that it takes a normal country to figure out how to complete roads.
> >
> >Yeah, but isn't that because we felt really bad about bombing them so we
> >swore
> >that I saw a group of people walking down the street and upon closer
> >inspection, they turned out to be those orange bags that the county leaves
> >along side the road, so maybe I'm not the best person in this subject.
> >
> >
>
> fixing other countries than it is at fixing itself. Japan should get most of
> the credit, though, because its people, to the bafflement of all, actually
> adopted the rules America had come up with (and, needless to say, never
> followed itself) on How To Make Your Nation Prosper. US troops stationed in
> Japan after WWII were puzzled to find the Japanese agreeable, hard-working, and
> eager to learn. Silly Japanese, letting us help them rebuild their economy!
> You'd never catch Americans taking advice from some other country!
Yes, but what I don't understand is, now that they need help
rebuilding their economy again, now that they're creating world-wide
economic problems, why won't they take our advice?
--Judith, having to admire them, though: when they imitated cultures,
like with Chinese art, they did a *dang* good job.
Noah Singman
Darkhop wrote:
>Anyway, for two and a half centuries Japan enjoyed peace and civil
>order, and their old samurai suddenly had to deal with their equivalent
>of credit card debt to a newly rising merchant class, but beyond this
>everything was effectively at a standstill. Then Perry came along with
>1863's version of a free trade agreement ("Open up or else!"), which
>gave Japan a *very* quick lesson as to what Europeans had been cooking
>up in the meanwhile.
Was it 1863, John? I seem to date Perry's arrival at around 1854 (I suppose
I should check, rather than speculate). 1863 would have put it right in the
middle of the Civil War . . .
>What followed was the deposing of the entire Shogun office and the
>restoration of the Emperor as a *ruler* and not just a symbolic lackey.
>(This was done very quickly after noticing the colonizing tendencies of
>these kee-razy Euro-Amelicans.) He waved his hand, said "Modernize!" and
>whoosh--by 1804 they were clobbering the Russian Navy at Port Arthur and
>thereby scaring the bejezuz out of everybody else.
I think the Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905) was seen at the time as more of a
sign of Russia's weakness than Japan's strength. I like your perspective
better - Russia was still a huge country, and Japan seemed to come out of
nowhere (though we know they didn't).
The Emperor's importance was extremely valuable in August of 1945, since he
insisted that Japan surrender, against the wishes of the military
leadership, rather than risk additional nukes. By doing so, he helped save
the lives of millions of American and Japanese soldiers.
>And during WW2, a country the size of California, with few natural
>resources at their disposal, held off defeat for a hell of a lot longer
>than anyone with those specs should expect to.
Partly because the Japanese army and navy fought viciously and suicidally
(in keeping with Bushido, the warrior code), and in total disregard for the
Geneva Conventions (of which Japan was a signatory). I've always believed
that the darkest part of Japan's history was its astonishing cruelty and
brutality to the populations it conquered and the soldiers it imprisoned.
>Well I kinda went off on a tangent there, so forgive me. I find that
>country fascinating, and I've read more on their history than my own. I
>was trying to give an idea of their uniqueness and why so much Japan-
>bashing is off-base.
But an interesting tangent, John. :-)
>Yers,
>Yabanjin
Oh, no! He's one of them! Lord Yabanjin-sama!
Noah
MST#59539
We could learn a lot from Japanese soap-houses. :-)
Mike Ralls
Noah Singman (sin...@home.com) wrote:
: The Emperor's importance was extremely valuable in August of 1945, since he
: insisted that Japan surrender, against the wishes of the military
: leadership, rather than risk additional nukes. By doing so, he helped save
: the lives of millions of American and Japanese soldiers.
And of course saved his own ass. The Emperor was for the war when it was
going well, and against it when it started going bad. As time passed, it
seemed as if he was never for it at all. He should have been hanged.
--
Mike Ralls
JimL2
back to where we started...
Jim "They did pretty good considering they're on islands with an accumulated
land mass the size of, like, Maine (but without all that tasty lobster!
Mmmm-mmm!)" Lauwers
Darkhop
Noah Singman wrote:
> Was it 1863, John? I seem to date Perry's arrival at around 1854 (I suppose
> I should check, rather than speculate). 1863 would have put it right in the
> middle of the Civil War . . .
Yep -- typo. <blush>
> >What followed was the deposing of the entire Shogun office and the
> >restoration of the Emperor as a *ruler* and not just a symbolic lackey.
> >(This was done very quickly after noticing the colonizing tendencies of
> >these kee-razy Euro-Amelicans.) He waved his hand, said "Modernize!" and
> >whoosh--by 1804 they were clobbering the Russian Navy at Port Arthur and
> >thereby scaring the bejezuz out of everybody else.
See? Another one! (Geez!!)
> I think the Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905) was seen at the time as more of a
> sign of Russia's weakness than Japan's strength. I like your perspective
> better - Russia was still a huge country, and Japan seemed to come out of
> nowhere (though we know they didn't).
Exactly. They made everybody blink and ask "Whoa, who are these guys??"
> The Emperor's importance was extremely valuable in August of 1945, since he
> insisted that Japan surrender, against the wishes of the military
> leadership, rather than risk additional nukes. By doing so, he helped save
> the lives of millions of American and Japanese soldiers.
Something a lot of people tend to forget, much less understand. It's
hard for us to grasp that a man who was considered nothing less than a
deity by his people was almost effectively powerless against his fawning
but bullheaded military.
> >And during WW2, a country the size of California, with few natural
> >resources at their disposal, held off defeat for a hell of a lot longer
> >than anyone with those specs should expect to.
>
> Partly because the Japanese army and navy fought viciously and suicidally
> (in keeping with Bushido, the warrior code), and in total disregard for the
> Geneva Conventions (of which Japan was a signatory). I've always believed
> that the darkest part of Japan's history was its astonishing cruelty and
> brutality to the populations it conquered and the soldiers it imprisoned.
Absolutely. This is what happens when you consider yourself superior to
everybody and are drunk with power from a flurry of victories.
> >Well I kinda went off on a tangent there, so forgive me. I find that
> >country fascinating, and I've read more on their history than my own. I
> >was trying to give an idea of their uniqueness and why so much Japan-
> >bashing is off-base.
>
> But an interesting tangent, John. :-)
>
> >Yers,
> >Yabanjin
>
> Oh, no! He's one of them! Lord Yabanjin-sama!
Actually the word means "barbarian", so that's about equivalent to
saying "Lord Scumbag". =}
> Noah
> MST#59539
> We could learn a lot from Japanese soap-houses. :-)
Mmmmm....soap-houses.......oops--
Yers,
John
Darkhop
Mike Ralls wrote:
>
> Noah Singman (sin...@home.com) wrote:
>
> : The Emperor's importance was extremely valuable in August of 1945, since he
> : insisted that Japan surrender, against the wishes of the military
> : leadership, rather than risk additional nukes. By doing so, he helped save
> : the lives of millions of American and Japanese soldiers.
>
> going well, and against it when it started going bad. As time passed, it
> seemed as if he was never for it at all. He should have been hanged.
From a purely Justice perspective, perhaps. But MacArthur understood the
Japanese -- ever hear the story of how surprised the occupation forces
were at how cooperative, friendly, etc., the Japanese were after the
war, not to mention their status as a friendly nation and all that? If
they'd executed Hirohito, not a chance would any of that happened, and
yet more American lives would've been lost in the inevitable fighting
that would've ensued.
Also you might consider that being Emperor of Japan was not the
equivalent of being a dictator somewhere else. The rigid setup was
intended to ensure that everybody knew their place and exactly what they
should and should not do in order to make the place run. He may have
been considered a deity, but he was also *expected* to simply
rubber-stamp every decision his ministers made, as to do otherwise would
be like asking God to do some real work for a change.
When he finally decided he'd had enough and *asked* them to end the war,
they still waffled for more than a day, the War Minister committed
suicide, and some junior officers decided Hirohito's decision was the
result of the evil influence of a few ministers and tried to stage a
coup, kidnap the Emperor, and seize the recording he'd made announcing
Japan's surrender. They nearly made it. It's a little-known story that
would in the right hands make an exciting movie.
Yers,
John
Who for the sake of perspective wants to add that my bride-to-be's
parents were interned in the American concentration camps during the
40s.
Antaeus Feldspar
JimL2 <ji...@aol.com> wrote:
> Judith wrote:
> >Norb42 wrote:
> >>
> >> In "Golden Boy", OdiePal wrote:
> >> >>2. They went from a backwards isolationist, non-technology based
> >> >>culture into a high-powered, well-oiled Kick-ass machine in a time span
> >> >>that it takes a normal country to figure out how to complete roads.
> >> >
Well.
Either you're trying to be stupid-funny, or funny in your
stupidity, or whatever... or you're not trying.
Either way, I have someone to *PLONK*.
-jc
--
* -jc IS *NOW* feld...@cryogen.com
* Home page: http://members.tripod.com/~afeldspar/index.html
* The home of >>Failed Pilots Playhouse<<
* "Better you hold me close than understand..." Thomas Dolby
WoemCats
Well, if the US has an "I'm better than you" attitude, Japan has a bigger one
in some respects. Yes, Asian economy is in ruins, but why should the pitiful
US tell the all-mighty Japanese to do? Also there is still some resentment
from WWII I'm sure. But this is all conjecture. So carry on.
Joel
<woem...@aol.com>
"People say I'm in my own little world. That's ok, they know me there."- Joel
Hodgson
"Do you have as much- uh uh uh uh- MRxL as us? I don't think so!"
"Bite me, I'm a toaster strudel. But caution, my filling may be hot!"
Antaeus Feldspar
Judith Jacobs <jaco...@engin.umich.edu> wrote:
> Norb42 wrote:
[snip]
> > followed itself) on How To Make Your Nation Prosper. US troops
> > stationed in Japan after WWII were puzzled to find the Japanese
> > agreeable, hard-working, and eager to learn. Silly Japanese, letting us
> > help them rebuild their economy! You'd never catch Americans taking
> > advice from some other country!
>
> Yes, but what I don't understand is, now that they need help
> rebuilding their economy again, now that they're creating world-wide
> economic problems, why won't they take our advice?
>
> --Judith, having to admire them, though: when they imitated cultures,
> like with Chinese art, they did a *dang* good job.
Somewhere recently, someone presented an analogy that I thought
had a lot of validity: If America is the country that has mass
Attention Deficit Disorder, Japan is the country that has mass Obsessive
Compulsive Disorder.
Thus, when Japan puts its mind to something, such as finding out
what some other country has that is giving it an edge, they can go at it
*very intensely.* In fact, it might be hard to divert them from that
course. But... if they are following some other course of action, it
may be hard for them to move to another, even if it seems to us that it
would be the best course of action for them to take.