Scary what's on DVD these days.
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
to own it.
On DVD: 'Father Frost' -- a.k.a. Jack Frost, episode 813.
I haven't even had the nerve to take it out of the plastic wrap ... this
film is arguably the worst movie done during the SciFi era.
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester, who will need a visit from Grandfather
Mushroom to be able to face this one.
MechaMan Turbo
Oh, Jack Frost was pretty bad. But it was in a funny bad way. The new DVD out
has the original Russian language track as well as the English dub used in
MST3K. ^^
-Fory, The Former Mysterious Lurker
"My ship works better when I kick it."--Spike, "Cowboy Bebop"
My scheme is complete!! Soon all the children of the world will be dipped in
fung-lum sweet and sour sauce!! They will be sweet! And sour!! HAH!!
Joe Blevins
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester wrote:
>
<snip stuff about "Jack Frost" a.k.a. "Father Frost">
> I haven't even had the nerve to take it out of the plastic wrap ... this
> film is arguably the worst movie done during the SciFi era.
[rant ahoy; abandon ship]
See, this is an example of how widely opinion can vary in RATMM. To me,
"Jack Frost" was one of the BETTER movies done during the Sci-Fi era.
It's weird and nonsensical and badly-dubbed, but compared to most of
the MST movies it's bright, colorful, and refreshingly free of
depression and despair. That alone sets it apart. With most of the
MST3K movies, you get the sense that the filmmakers "just didn't care"
and weren't even trying to make good movies. With "Jack Frost," OTOH,
you get the sense that at least SOMEONE was trying to make this a good
movie. It isn't a LAZY bad movie like so many of the others on MST3K.
My pick for the worst movie used during the SFC years? So many, many
choices. The mind jumps immediately to the nearly-unwatchable "Invasion
of the Neptune Men," the sleazy and creatively bankrupt "Hobgoblins,"
and just about all of the gloomy, talky British films. Even a movie
like "I Was a Teenage Werewolf," which SHOULD be fun, turns out to be
gray and talky and flat and depressing. "Soultaker" was another movie I
really despised, since it was nearly as sleazy as "Hobgoblins," plus
really badly scripted and acted... and had godawful music. Those two
Peggy Weber movies, "The Screaming Skull" and "Space Children" were real
torture tests for me because, again, they were so relentlessly
downbeat. I've posted several times about my strong dislike of
"Diabolik," mostly because of the phoniness of the egomaniacal "hero."
"Quest of the Delta Knights" is one of those sad films that isn't
creative or original enough to be good, and isn't quite bad enough to be
interesting. It just sort of sits there. (Maybe that's the worst kind
of movie there is. Too dull even to inspire hatred.) "Overdrawn at the
Memory Bank" is a bad movie which, annoyingly, THINKS it's a good movie
(and thanks to being shot on videotape, it has the distinction of being
one of the ugliest movies in MST's history... and that's saying
something). To me, there were a lot of movies MUCH worse than "Jack
Frost."
There were a few SFC movies that were bad to the point of being silly,
and those films didn't bother me nearly as much as the films mentioned
in the previous paragraph. In the "silly" category, I'd include: "Puma
Man," "Time Chasers," "Space Mutiny," "Riding With Death," "Incredibly
Strange Creatures," and "Merlin's Shop of Mystical Wonders."
In conclusion, I'd like to recommend the online episode guide for "Jack
Frost" in which Mary Jo Pehl admits a certain fondness for the Marfushka
character. I have to agree with her. Marfushka is one of the funnier
characters in an MST movie.
--Joe--
George Johnson
news:3CDC3250...@concentric.net...
|
|
| The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester wrote:
| >
|
| <snip stuff about "Jack Frost" a.k.a. "Father Frost">
|
| > I haven't even had the nerve to take it out of the plastic wrap ... this
| > film is arguably the worst movie done during the SciFi era.
|
| [rant ahoy; abandon ship]
|
| See, this is an example of how widely opinion can vary in RATMM. To me,
| "Jack Frost" was one of the BETTER movies done during the Sci-Fi era.
| It's weird and nonsensical and badly-dubbed, but compared to most of
| the MST movies it's bright, colorful, and refreshingly free of
| depression and despair. That alone sets it apart. With most of the
| MST3K movies, you get the sense that the filmmakers "just didn't care"
| and weren't even trying to make good movies. With "Jack Frost," OTOH,
| you get the sense that at least SOMEONE was trying to make this a good
| movie. It isn't a LAZY bad movie like so many of the others on MST3K.
[ rest clipped for my comment ]
I LOVED the Finno-Russian movies. There was a delightful "We're
retelling a classic story" aura that exceeds any of the fun silly stuff that
I also love. They have an epic story and unrestrained whimsy that makes a
story classic. "The Magic Sword" was also a favorite of my childhood
(though the "trapped in the cave" scene and the "two guys who fade away on
the hilltop" perplexed me when I was a kid).
I also loved the "Overdrawn at the Memory Bank" not for its story (which
was downright weak) but for the characters of that time. In it the
technology has become so sophisticated and the attitude toward it outright
mundane. After all the really tough computer interface issue hurdles are
overcome they then hire burger-flipper candidates to do brain surgery,
uneducated psychiatrists who must be prompted by the computer to give a
worthwhile answer, and a vision of the future where people use computers as
an excuse to not be bothered ever having to come up with a new though on
their own. It was a story with great aspirations but no money to present
them efficiently to the audience.
The movie that just never worked was "Red Zone Cuba" (like taking a
plot - dipping it in tar - then hanging weights on it - then spinning it in
a circle until it gets dizzy - and still not doing anything even until the
final agonizing moments of sinking into the bog).
Chapuisat
I know I've said this before, but Jack Frost has always been seen as a good
movie in Russia. That's why it got a DVD release. At the moment there's
something of a revival in the fairytale movie genre going on, and in the
wake of that a lot of Russians have rediscovered movies like Jack Frost that
they loved as children. I could name at least three people (including my
girlfriend) that would list JF as one of their top ten favorite movies. I
think the moral of the story is YMMV.
-Chappi
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
>>
>>
>>There I was, minding my own business, when I saw it and realized that
>>I had to own it.
>>
>>On DVD: 'Father Frost' -- a.k.a. Jack Frost, episode 813.
>>
>>I haven't even had the nerve to take it out of the plastic wrap ...
>>this film is arguably the worst movie done during the SciFi era.
>>
>>
>>The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester, who will need a visit from Grandfather
>>Mushroom to be able to face this one.
>
> Oh, Jack Frost was pretty bad. But it was in a funny bad way. The new
> DVD out has the original Russian language track as well as the English
> dub used in MST3K. ^^
And it was an award winner at the time it was made ... but unlike a fine
wine or cheese, age has done it no favors.
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester, who at least has it out of the plastic wrap
now.
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
> The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester wrote:
> <snip stuff about "Jack Frost" a.k.a. "Father Frost">
>> I haven't even had the nerve to take it out of the plastic wrap ... this
>> film is arguably the worst movie done during the SciFi era.
> [rant ahoy; abandon ship]
> See, this is an example of how widely opinion can vary in RATMM. To me,
> "Jack Frost" was one of the BETTER movies done during the Sci-Fi era.
> It's weird and nonsensical and badly-dubbed, but compared to most of
> the MST movies it's bright, colorful, and refreshingly free of
> depression and despair. That alone sets it apart. With most of the
> MST3K movies, you get the sense that the filmmakers "just didn't care"
> and weren't even trying to make good movies. With "Jack Frost," OTOH,
> you get the sense that at least SOMEONE was trying to make this a good
> movie. It isn't a LAZY bad movie like so many of the others on MST3K.
Actually, at the time, Morozko (Father/Jack Frost) was an international
award winner: to wit, the Lion of San Marco - Grand Prize at the 1965
Venice film festival. However, what we have here is an example of a film
made for the day, and not one made for the ages.
Besides, being an award winner is not necessarily maningful. Look at the
grand mistakes in Oscar history:
- Citizen Kane, The Maltese Falcon, Suspicion and The Little Foxes all
being beat for Best Picture by How Green Was My Valley.
- All The President's Men, Network and Taxi Driver being beat by Rocky
- On Golden Pond beaten by Chariots of Fire
- *EVERYTHING* that got beat by Titanic
> My pick for the worst movie used during the SFC years? So many, many
> choices. The mind jumps immediately to the nearly-unwatchable "Invasion
> of the Neptune Men," the sleazy and creatively bankrupt "Hobgoblins,"
> and just about all of the gloomy, talky British films. Even a movie
> like "I Was a Teenage Werewolf," which SHOULD be fun, turns out to be
> gray and talky and flat and depressing. "Soultaker" was another movie I
> really despised, since it was nearly as sleazy as "Hobgoblins," plus
> really badly scripted and acted... and had godawful music. Those two
> Peggy Weber movies, "The Screaming Skull" and "Space Children" were real
> torture tests for me because, again, they were so relentlessly
> downbeat. I've posted several times about my strong dislike of
> "Diabolik," mostly because of the phoniness of the egomaniacal "hero."
> "Quest of the Delta Knights" is one of those sad films that isn't
> creative or original enough to be good, and isn't quite bad enough to be
> interesting. It just sort of sits there. (Maybe that's the worst kind
> of movie there is. Too dull even to inspire hatred.) "Overdrawn at the
> Memory Bank" is a bad movie which, annoyingly, THINKS it's a good movie
> (and thanks to being shot on videotape, it has the distinction of being
> one of the ugliest movies in MST's history... and that's saying
> something). To me, there were a lot of movies MUCH worse than "Jack
> Frost."
Different measuring sticks, I suppose. Out of all those, the only one that
thought it was going to be a good movie was Overdrawn at the Memory Bank; I
think the rest of the ones you mentioned *weren't* made with the thought of
making a great movie in mind. They were being made to make a quick buck,
cash in on the current fad, whatever.
Taking that into context, I find myself more willing to forgive the flaws
in a movie like Neptune Men or Teenage Werewolf than I am the flaws in
Morozko or Memory Bank.
Agreed, OatMB is a really really shoddy production. It *looks* cheap, and
knowing that they're working from a good Varley story and with someone Raul
Julia (who already had 'Kiss of the Spider Woman' on his resume by then)
only makes it the more painful to watch. And yes, never put a good movie
in the middle of your bad movie. :)
> There were a few SFC movies that were bad to the point of being silly,
> and those films didn't bother me nearly as much as the films mentioned
> in the previous paragraph. In the "silly" category, I'd include: "Puma
> Man," "Time Chasers," "Space Mutiny," "Riding With Death," "Incredibly
> Strange Creatures," and "Merlin's Shop of Mystical Wonders."
Again, I think we have to get into intent.
I really can't bring myself to believe that any of the film makers here
thought they were making a 'good' movie.
Morozko appears to be part of a Russian 'costume drama' period, not unlike
the age of the Italian sword-and-sandal movies from the mid Fifties to the
early Sixties. Aleksandr Rou looks to be in the same category as Aleksandr
Ptushko, for whom we have to blame 'Sadko' (Magic Voyage of Sinbad), 'Ilya
Muromets' (Sword and the Dragon) and 'Sampo' (Day the Earth Froze).
And what ultimately consigns Morozko to cinematic hell is that it was made
for the day, not for the ages.
> In conclusion, I'd like to recommend the online episode guide for "Jack
> Frost" in which Mary Jo Pehl admits a certain fondness for the Marfushka
> character. I have to agree with her. Marfushka is one of the funnier
> characters in an MST movie.
I'm trying to remember which one Marfushka is ... drawing a blank.
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester, who thinks the *best* movie they ever MSTed
was 'Marooned' (aka Space Travellers)
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
> The movie that just never worked was "Red Zone Cuba" (like taking
> a plot - dipping it in tar - then hanging weights on it - then spinning
> it in a circle until it gets dizzy - and still not doing anything even
> until the final agonizing moments of sinking into the bog).
Oh, RZC never even strayed in the general direction of a plot. I think
it's the worst movie they ever did, worse than Manos, Monster a Go Go, Wild
Wild World of Batwoman, Jack Frost, you name it, RZC is worse than it.
Well, I dunno. I still have never seen 'Castle of Fu Manchu' and I'm told
that's a contender for the title. But RZC is worse than anything I've seen
yet.
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester, who was actually disappointed that Rhino
didn't put the unMSTed RZC on the DVD.
Jacob C.
I think she was the ugly sister....
(not sure, though)
**Jacob C.**
"I should love to beat up the negative SOB who lives in my head."
- Maxi Jazz of Faithless
Jeff Richards
<ika...@NaOeSrPiAeM.to> wrote:
>Quoth "George Johnson" <matr...@voyager.net>:
>> The movie that just never worked was "Red Zone Cuba" (like taking
>> a plot - dipping it in tar - then hanging weights on it - then spinning
>> it in a circle until it gets dizzy - and still not doing anything even
>> until the final agonizing moments of sinking into the bog).
>
>Oh, RZC never even strayed in the general direction of a plot. I think
>it's the worst movie they ever did, worse than Manos, Monster a Go Go, Wild
>Wild World of Batwoman, Jack Frost, you name it, RZC is worse than it.
<snip>
I'd have to say that I think Monster A Go Go is worse than RZC, simply
because the photography is as awful as the lack of plot. For me, RZC
suffers from a terrible story and moronic editing, but Monster A Go Go
has that, plus LOOOOONG scenes of people just talking and truly
terrible shot choices. To steal a paraphrase from Racket Girls, "Well,
we've lost all the lights, so let's roll film". YMMV, of course, but
that's my take.
Of course, I havn't seen Manos or Batwoman.
Craig J. Clark
>
<snip>
> <snip>
>
> I'd have to say that I think Monster A Go Go is worse than RZC, simply
> because the photography is as awful as the lack of plot. For me, RZC
> suffers from a terrible story and moronic editing, but Monster A Go Go
> has that, plus LOOOOONG scenes of people just talking and truly
> terrible shot choices. To steal a paraphrase from Racket Girls, "Well,
> we've lost all the lights, so let's roll film". YMMV, of course, but
> that's my take.
I usually rewatch an episode (or at least the movie that spawned it)
before writing a new one-act play. With "Monster a-Go Go" I made an
exception.
> Of course, I havn't seen Manos or Batwoman.
Then, sir, you have not truly lived.
--
Craig J. Clark "I believe -- so strongly -- in mayonnaise."
cjc...@earthlink.net --Elmo Oxygen,
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjclark denizen of
for the uneasily amused --> http://dada.warped.com Schizopolis
George Johnson
news:8t3rdu4r33pq4db0k...@4ax.com...
Well, "The Beast of Yucca Flats" can outentertain "Red Zone Cuba"
without even trying.
"Monster A Go Go" just lingers aimlessly like a frustrated shopper on
Christmas in the mall and zero ideas of what kind of gifts to buy. Then in
a desperate move that shopper grabs something cheap off the shelf, buys five
or six of them, and plans to spread the lousy gifts between friends who
don't meet much. Then as the shopper looks in their bag a feeling of forced
holiday compliance comes over them, angry about the family that doesn't give
decent gift ideas, looks sternly at the cheap gifts in the bag, goes to the
coffee shop, gets some donuts, looks at the bag while eating, and then goes
straight home and with anger and resentment in the heart growls as the cheap
gifts are tossed into the hall closet. The next day that shopper goes to
Wal-Mart and picks up a bundle of $25 gift cards and says, "The Hell with
it! Let them decide whatever the heck they want."
"Monster A Go Go" doesn't give even the satisfaction of a sudden heart
attack. "Monster A Go Go" instead decides to answer by laughing in the face
of the audience and saying, "There WAS NO MONSTER." [ Cues Nelson Muntz
laugh, "HA Haaa! - We just squandered a portion of your life!" (Not that
they forced you to watch the entire movie of course.) ]
"Red Zone Cuba" is just like the agonizing days of our childhoods in
which you cannot escape the intellectual deprivation and your mind just
begins to feel a squeezed lemon. "The Beast of Yucca Flats" is somewhere
above "Red Zone Cuba" and below "Radar Secret Service" in raw "could I watch
this for an afternoon diversion without feeling like I've gone comatose."
Jeff Richards
<cjc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Jeff Richards wrote:
>>
>
><snip>
>
>> <snip>
>>
>> I'd have to say that I think Monster A Go Go is worse than RZC, simply
>> because the photography is as awful as the lack of plot. For me, RZC
>> suffers from a terrible story and moronic editing, but Monster A Go Go
>> has that, plus LOOOOONG scenes of people just talking and truly
>> terrible shot choices. To steal a paraphrase from Racket Girls, "Well,
>> we've lost all the lights, so let's roll film". YMMV, of course, but
>> that's my take.
>
>I usually rewatch an episode (or at least the movie that spawned it)
>before writing a new one-act play. With "Monster a-Go Go" I made an
>exception.
The brain cells that would otherwise have died a horrible death thank
you.
>
>> Of course, I havn't seen Manos or Batwoman.
>
>Then, sir, you have not truly lived.
So I hear. Although I'd like to add an honorable "Really Awful"
mention for "Devil Fish", for the most repetition of a single shot.
What was the problem? Did they only have the fish model for 15 minutes
on one day?
Fish Eye no Miko
news:8t3rdu4r33pq4db0k...@4ax.com...
> I'd have to say that I think Monster A Go Go is worse than RZC,
I agree.
> simply because the photography is as awful as the lack of plot. For
> me, RZC suffers from a terrible story and moronic editing,
Plus the characters are so... hateful.
> but Monster A Go Go has that, plus LOOOOONG scenes of people
> just talking and truly terrible shot choices. To steal a paraphrase from
> Racket Girls, "Well, we've lost all the lights, so let's roll film".
YMMV,
> of course, but that's my take.
> Of course, I havn't seen Manos
Pfft... Manos actually has something of a plot and **color**. And it has
Torgo. These things alone make it better than MAG-G. Not that that's
saying much, mind you...
> or Batwoman.
If nothing else, WWWoB-W has scantily clad women dancing. I understand
some of you guys really go for that sort of thing. ^_^
Plus, Unlike MAG-G, it doesn't seem to take itself too seriously.
Catherine Johnson. "My girls will find his device..."
--
dis "able" to reply
"When Catherine thinks you're too gay, you're too gay."
-Rob Fontenot, aka The Midnight Rambler, RATMM.
Jeff Richards
<cath...@feablenm.net> wrote:
>"Jeff Richards" <bots@anti spam blockerRecklessRogue.com> wrote in message
>news:8t3rdu4r33pq4db0k...@4ax.com...
>
>> I'd have to say that I think Monster A Go Go is worse than RZC,
>
>I agree.
>
>> simply because the photography is as awful as the lack of plot. For
>> me, RZC suffers from a terrible story and moronic editing,
>
>Plus the characters are so... hateful.
That's true... it's like they're the distilation of every kid in
school who used to torture small animals. Evil is fine, but the
sloping forehead meanness makes you just want to submit them for lab
experiments.
>> but Monster A Go Go has that, plus LOOOOONG scenes of people
>> just talking and truly terrible shot choices. To steal a paraphrase from
>> Racket Girls, "Well, we've lost all the lights, so let's roll film".
>YMMV,
>> of course, but that's my take.
>> Of course, I havn't seen Manos
>
>Pfft... Manos actually has something of a plot and **color**. And it has
>Torgo. These things alone make it better than MAG-G. Not that that's
>saying much, mind you...
>
>> or Batwoman.
>
>If nothing else, WWWoB-W has scantily clad women dancing. I understand
>some of you guys really go for that sort of thing. ^_^
>Plus, Unlike MAG-G, it doesn't seem to take itself too seriously.
>
>Catherine Johnson. "My girls will find his device..."
I don't know, the dancing women couldn't save The Incredibly Strange
Creatures Who Stopped.... although not taking itself seriously is a
good thing. With MAG-G, there was this horrible feeling that it feels
people should care, that there is something riviting about a horribly
long shot of two guys talking at a table. And the lighting... what was
their lighting package? Two flashlights?
And don't get me started on the ending..... However, the MST3K of
MAG-G will always hold a special place in my heart, because I'm a fan
of Gypsy and I love the "Crow, I don't get you" host segment.
Jeff, who has a living will that if he ever makes something like
MAG-G, he is to be killed immediately
www.recklessrogue.com
George Johnson
news:BvoD8.55169$v32.3...@news1.west.cox.net...
| "Jeff Richards" <bots@anti spam blockerRecklessRogue.com> wrote in message
| news:8t3rdu4r33pq4db0k...@4ax.com...
[ clipped ]
| > but Monster A Go Go has that, plus LOOOOONG scenes of people
| > just talking and truly terrible shot choices. To steal a paraphrase from
| > Racket Girls, "Well, we've lost all the lights, so let's roll film".
| YMMV,
| > of course, but that's my take.
| > Of course, I havn't seen Manos
|
| Pfft... Manos actually has something of a plot and **color**. And it has
| Torgo. These things alone make it better than MAG-G. Not that that's
| saying much, mind you...
[ clipped ]
Which is one of the reasons "Manos" has a special place.
They chose a good-looking man, stuck him in the outfit of Torgo, and let
him run with it. If "Manos" lost the Torgo character or John Reynolds (I)
then the movie would have floundered even more badly. Without the stutter
and lacking the comedic ineptness of the way Torgo was played I think the
movie would be unbearable.
Think about if Torgo was played as a serious manipulator and an plotting
menace? Without his distracting nervous tics, the anger felt toward the
parents of the young girl for such remarkable stupidity would be
unrestrainable. What sane person would just spend the night in the desert
with a character like Torgo if you did feel threatened and not simply
uncomfortably frightened? Torgo doesn't seem like the type to take a large
kitchen knife and stab the family while they slept (though if the ramshackle
shack were larger and better built it would be more upsetting).
See, I imagine sometimes what these movies COULD BE if they only had a
big budget and a competent cast and director.
"Manos: The Hands of Fate" is one of those movies. Torgo would be the
one to sucker unknowing strangers into a large and classy home that was
converted into a Bed & Breakfast motel out in the desert wilderness which
has a strangely empty parking lot. He would distract and amuse the
guest/victims by his nervous tics, awkward manners, swollen knees, and
generally unthreatening - yet disquieting - actions. He would make a move
on the wife who would not tell her husband as she, a southern belle type,
would feel it unmannered to upset her husband with the advances of an
incompetent oaf.
The daughter would have her doggie which she's lose while being
distracted by her Gameboy (in place of the child's generally catatonic
behavior in the original "Manos"). The father would be the 1950's type of
dad in which he feels he controls the world and feels he can control any
situation no matter how dire whenever it comes (in other words, a perfect
idiot that doesn't have a sense of rightful warning when faced with the
situation he drags his family into). The wife would be cautious, but not
bold enough to dissuade the moron of her husband from dragging them into
easily avoided danger.
Thus with the stage set we go on with the story. Torgo explains
confusingly about the Master, father books a room for the night, Torgo does
the awkward sexual advance on the wife while the husband is in the other
room, girl's dog vanishes, dad hears the coyote, plans to leave, this time
finds a car boot on his front wheel (Torgo explains it is to prevent guests
from leaving without paying), dad threatens Torgo, little girl goes missing,
he goes off in search of the girl, Torgo goes to wake up the Master, Torgo
goes to the Master's cave (looked like a cave to me), Torgo does his burning
the bridge bit with each of the Master's wives, he wakes up the Master who
wakes up the wives, wives chat then wrestle then set off in search of the
dad & little girl, mom gets beaten up slightly as she fights back the
advancing wives and finally is captured, dad gets tied to a pole and
skank-slapped unconscious, girl is found (this time with explanations of how
the Master captured every one of his wives), Torgo gets captured and
skank-slapped, Master makes new woman his wife, girl gets made into wife,
and the movie ends with dad greeting new guests. I'd add in more side story
about the town, backstory about the Master and how he became the Master,
some special effects for good measure, and a few distracting side characters
before we get to Torgo's Bread & Breakfast.
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
Well, YMMV is kind of a given around here. :)
I don't know. Surely the translation and dubbing voice decisions played a
role, but it's really the overall film that puts it in my 'year old
hamdinger' category. It looks garish and amateurish, and even taking into
account that it's a fairy tale, it's less 'believable' than most. At best,
I see it as a mish-mosh of multiple fairy tales ... Baba Yaga certainly
appears all over Russian folk tales.
In the long run, it just lacks the goofy charm of Plan 9 or Bride of the
Monster ... it's just goofy, sans charm.
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester, who, in the interest of full disclosure,
admits to *liking* Manos in its unMSTed form, in a Plan 9 sort of way.
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
> On 11 May 2002 17:30:53 GMT, The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
> <ika...@NaOeSrPiAeM.to> wrote:
>>Oh, RZC never even strayed in the general direction of a plot. I
>>think it's the worst movie they ever did, worse than Manos, Monster a
>>Go Go, Wild Wild World of Batwoman, Jack Frost, you name it, RZC is
>>worse than it.
> because the photography is as awful as the lack of plot. For me, RZC
> suffers from a terrible story and moronic editing, but Monster A Go Go
> has that, plus LOOOOONG scenes of people just talking and truly
> terrible shot choices. To steal a paraphrase from Racket Girls, "Well,
> we've lost all the lights, so let's roll film". YMMV, of course, but
> that's my take.
MAGG scored on the points that RZC and JF missed, though -- goofy charm.
No way is it a good movie, but it isn't ineffably unwatchable. I couldn't
watch it without riffing madly myself, but I can imagine myself actually
watching it. It's in the Ed Wood category of deranged film making.
> Of course, I havn't seen Manos or Batwoman.
Oh, boy ... are you in for a 'treat'. :)
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester, hasn't yet had the nerve to watch the
unMSTed WWWoB on the DVD
Jeff Richards
<ika...@NaOeSrPiAeM.to> wrote:
>Quoth Jeff Richards:
>> On 11 May 2002 17:30:53 GMT, The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
>> <ika...@NaOeSrPiAeM.to> wrote:
>>>Oh, RZC never even strayed in the general direction of a plot. I
>>>think it's the worst movie they ever did, worse than Manos, Monster a
>>>Go Go, Wild Wild World of Batwoman, Jack Frost, you name it, RZC is
>>>worse than it.
>> I'd have to say that I think Monster A Go Go is worse than RZC, simply
>> because the photography is as awful as the lack of plot. For me, RZC
>> suffers from a terrible story and moronic editing, but Monster A Go Go
>> has that, plus LOOOOONG scenes of people just talking and truly
>> terrible shot choices. To steal a paraphrase from Racket Girls, "Well,
>> we've lost all the lights, so let's roll film". YMMV, of course, but
>> that's my take.
>
>MAGG scored on the points that RZC and JF missed, though -- goofy charm.
>No way is it a good movie, but it isn't ineffably unwatchable. I couldn't
>watch it without riffing madly myself, but I can imagine myself actually
>watching it. It's in the Ed Wood category of deranged film making.
My hat is off to you... I honestly went fetal on my couch in the last
30 minutes or so. It was only sheer bloody-mindedness that made me
last to the end. If I had been watching it un-MSTed, I think I would
have been driven into a homicidal rage by the non-ending.
JF is, to me, not that horrible. Goofy, sure, but show a Russian one
of our stop-motion Christmas stories, like Rudolph, and I bet they'd
think we're pretty goofy as well. Some of the shots are silly (do we
really need to watch the mountainside for six seconds while someone
walks through the cave inside?), but the overall tone, to me, is
charming, even if the girl is barely out of kindergarten.
>
>> Of course, I havn't seen Manos or Batwoman.
>
>Oh, boy ... are you in for a 'treat'. :)
I'm quivering with antici-----pation!
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
> On 13 May 2002 18:13:19 GMT, The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester
> <ika...@NaOeSrPiAeM.to> wrote:
>>MAGG scored on the points that RZC and JF missed, though -- goofy
>>charm. No way is it a good movie, but it isn't ineffably unwatchable.
>> I couldn't watch it without riffing madly myself, but I can imagine
>>myself actually watching it. It's in the Ed Wood category of deranged
>>film making.
> My hat is off to you... I honestly went fetal on my couch in the last
> 30 minutes or so. It was only sheer bloody-mindedness that made me
> last to the end. If I had been watching it un-MSTed, I think I would
> have been driven into a homicidal rage by the non-ending.
By then, I was so swept away by the sheer insanity of the movie, it made as
much sense as the rest of the movie, and as much sense as any other ending
they could've tacked on to it.
> JF is, to me, not that horrible. Goofy, sure, but show a Russian one
> of our stop-motion Christmas stories, like Rudolph, and I bet they'd
> think we're pretty goofy as well. Some of the shots are silly (do we
> really need to watch the mountainside for six seconds while someone
> walks through the cave inside?), but the overall tone, to me, is
> charming, even if the girl is barely out of kindergarten.
For some reason, I haven't been able to see JF that way. It just seems a
particularly clumsy film to me, even taking into account the fact that it's
not meant to be a deep and complex movie.
>>> Of course, I havn't seen Manos or Batwoman.
>>Oh, boy ... are you in for a 'treat'. :)
> I'm quivering with antici-----pation!
*chuckle!*
All I'll say is they're not good. :)
The Rev Dr Sherwood Forrester, offering his entry for 'Understatement of
the Newsgroup'. :)
Jacob C.
>I'm quivering with antici---
SAY IT!
>--pation!
The Midnight Rambler
"Jacob C." <jaket...@aol.complexity> wrote in message
news:20020514004218...@mb-fv.aol.com...
> Jeff Richards://
> >I'm quivering with
Epilepsy!
> antici---
>
> SAY IT!
Consti, consti, consti
> >--pation!
BUT MAYBEEEE THE RAIN!
--
More carpentry sounds, late at night, from
Robert "Big Rob" Fontenot, Jr.
http://www.bigrobonline.com
..............................................
"Everything the critics like, I frickin' don't like." -- Britney Spears
Paul Duca
tapes....
Paul Duca--the Supercharged MSTie
#56954
Did you hear the Dead Kennedys are touring again...without
original front man Jello Biafra?
Their new lead singer...Brandon Cruz.
Yes...as in THE COURTSHIP OF EDDIE'S FATHER
Joe Blevins
bad. Oh, sure, it's a painful viewing experience, but not a worthless
one. The entire Cuba sequence is silly and amateurish (and the film's
prolonged ending is bad enough to cause intestinal cramps), but I think
Coleman Francis, Anthony Cardoza, and especially Harold Saunders are
very believable in their roles as aimless, amoral losers -- the kinds of
people you really don't see in the movies much (for obvious reasons).
Admirably, RZC does not glamorize its criminals in any way. It presents
a wholly unromanticized view of the criminal life. That's very rare in
movies. Again, I'll cite "Diabolik" as a movie which irresponsibly
glamorizes crime and manipulates the audience into rooting for a thief
simply because he's anti-establishment. In sharp contrast, Francis does
NOT want the audience to root for Griffin, Cook, and Landis. These
people are not easy to spend time with, and Francis took a risk by not
trying to give his characters ANY likeable or admirable traits. Very
few directors are willing to do that (again for obvious reasons).
Yeah, "Red Zone Cuba" is bleak and depressing, but I think Coleman was
_going_ for "bleak and depressing." He set a goal, and he reached it.
Why else would he have included the endlessly depressing "frog legs"
sequence wtih Cliff Weissmeyer and his blind, aria-singing daughter?
Francis obviously filmed "Red Zone Cuba" in B&W out of economic
necessity, but I think the B&W really adds to the film's sense of
hopelessness and desperation. With its gray-on-gray look, the
cinematography presents a harsh and unforgiving landscape which is very
appropriate in setting the mood of the story. There are even a few
times when "RZC" _almost_ looks arty, as when we see a series of signs
that spell out "Where Will You Spend Eternity?" somewhat in the manner
of a Burma Shave ad.
"RZC" is not a good film, of course. It has major problems with is
structure and script, and there are long (interminable?) passages which
do not work on any level except unintentional comedy. But I think
there's enough salvagable footage there for mabye a 10-minute short.
--Joe--
Jeff Richards
wrote:
Well, I'd say that if he was doing a documentary of criminal drifters,
then maybe it would be a defense, but to create characters that are so
blandly offensive that you want to shut it off is a mistake. For me,
"Truth or Consequences N.M.", starring Kiefer Sutherland is a good
example of a movie about ugly, violent criminals that doesn't
glamourize it and is still very watchable. It's ugly, but it's screen
ugly, which is very different from reality ugly. (I know you may not
disagree... these are just my ramblings arising from what you said.)
The thing that some directors forget is that screen truth is VERY
different from actual truth. In many ways, actual truth on screen
comes across as false. People aren't standing on a street watching;
they're sitting in a cinema and we've established almost 100 years of
language as to how that's done, which is built on thousands of years
of dramatic heritage. That's a very complicated language to use, but
directors must use it. For example, "Conspiracy" gives us a very good,
documentary feel for what the Wannsee conference must have been like;
in fact, I expect that for the 2000-era viewer, it is a BETTER idea
than a simple camera recording the actual event would have been. (If
you haven't seen Conspiracy, then RUN, don't walk, to see it. It's out
on DVD now. Kenneth Brannagh, Stanley Tucci, Colin Firth, and a host
of other amazing actors. Utterly chilling look at one of the most
horrible afternoons in Western history.)
I'm going to stop here before I get into a thesis.
Jeff, the movie-obsessor
www.recklessrogue.com
S. Jacobs
Ooooh, you are so right about "Conspiracy." That was on HBO or
one of the cable channels last year, right? One of the best things I've
ever seen on TV. It was first-rate drama - fine writing and acting that
would hold up perfectly on the stage (wasn't it performed on the stage
at one time?), yet, as you say, seeing it as cinema makes it hit home even
more vividly. It was perfect in every way. My husband is a
WWII buff and said everything - events, personnages - was historically
accurate. The planning of the Final Solution: one of the most horrible
afternoons in Western history, indeed.
--Judith, who really likes this new Jeff guy! :-)
Jeff Richards
>Jeff Richards wrote:
>
>
>>
<snip>
>>
>> The thing that some directors forget is that screen truth is VERY
>> different from actual truth. In many ways, actual truth on screen
>> comes across as false. People aren't standing on a street watching;
>> they're sitting in a cinema and we've established almost 100 years of
>> language as to how that's done, which is built on thousands of years
>> of dramatic heritage. That's a very complicated language to use, but
>> directors must use it. For example, "Conspiracy" gives us a very good,
>> documentary feel for what the Wannsee conference must have been like;
>> in fact, I expect that for the 2000-era viewer, it is a BETTER idea
>> than a simple camera recording the actual event would have been. (If
>> you haven't seen Conspiracy, then RUN, don't walk, to see it. It's out
>> on DVD now. Kenneth Brannagh, Stanley Tucci, Colin Firth, and a host
>> of other amazing actors. Utterly chilling look at one of the most
>> horrible afternoons in Western history.)
>
>Ooooh, you are so right about "Conspiracy." That was on HBO or
>one of the cable channels last year, right? One of the best things I've
>ever seen on TV. It was first-rate drama - fine writing and acting that
>would hold up perfectly on the stage (wasn't it performed on the stage
>at one time?), yet, as you say, seeing it as cinema makes it hit home even
>more vividly. It was perfect in every way. My husband is a
>WWII buff and said everything - events, personnages - was historically
>accurate. The planning of the Final Solution: one of the most horrible
>afternoons in Western history, indeed.
>
>--Judith, who really likes this new Jeff guy! :-)
You're right, it was an HBO original movie. Just goes to show that HBO
has become a fantastic place for quality stuff that isn't quite made
for wide theatrical release.
It may have been performed on stage... if it wasn't, it should have
been, because it is ideally suited to it. I recall seeing Kenneth
Brannagh being interviewed between takes and he was saying how awful
it was to do it, especially considering they filmed in the actual
house where the conference took place. He spoke about saying those
lines and the sheer revulsion he'd feel, knowing it wasn't fiction.
Then he looked very uncomfortable for a moment, glanced down at his SS
uniform, and said "I shall be very happy to get out of this uniform."
I agree... one of the best things ever one TV. And thank you for the
compliment! :-) I like you too! Of course, anyone who loves MST3K
*and* Conspiracy has GOT to be wonderful! (Note how I include myself
in that group... ah well, all directors are egoists.)
John Hopkins
> What scares me is the possibility of having to transfer all my VHS
> tapes....
>
recorders should be getting a *lot* cheaper, before terribly long,
than what I paid for it. I took it back for a refund.
> Did you hear the Dead Kennedys are touring again...without
> original front man Jello Biafra?
>
> Their new lead singer...Brandon Cruz.
>
> Yes...as in THE COURTSHIP OF EDDIE'S FATHER
Frankenbixby?
John Hopkins
[--]
> You're right, it was an HBO original movie. Just goes to show that HBO
> has become a fantastic place for quality stuff that isn't quite made
> for wide theatrical release.
[--]
From the Earth to the Moon: for me, that 4-disc set by itself
justified buying a DVD player.
Jeff Richards
Amen... that was a brilliant piece of work. Plus Six Feet Under,
Dennis Miller Live, Oz, Sopranos, Sex & The City, Band of Brothers...
Not ever one of the shows I mentioned is to my taste, but the
popularity and success of HBO's shows is undeniable.
Now if only they'd bring on MST3K....
Pocketwatch
Jeff Richards wrote:
*Tries to imagine an HBO version of MST3k...*
Tahitian Tee Hee
>> Now if only they'd bring on MST3K....
>
>*Tries to imagine an HBO version of MST3k...*
"City Limits" minus the umbrella, perhaps?
(The original poster should be ashamed for failing to mention "Kids In The
Hall" and "Mr. Show.")
MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")
make GEORYN disappear to reply
"Siento que debemos saber para el sueño de quién brillará esta luz
o consagrar una propia estrella" --Alberto Felici
N.P.:nothing