Plot holes in "Les Miserables" (Spoilers?)
Daniel Gilly
I've never read the book. (I saw a made-for-TV movie
about 19 long years ago. :-)) I've seen the musical once,
and I've listened to the cast recording at least 10 times.
There are a few things that don't make sense to me.
(Spoiler alert for those who don't want to read about the plot.)
1. At the runaway cart, Javert's memory of Valjean is stirred.
Javert then informs "The Mayor" that he has captured Valjean.
Question 1: Was Javert honestly mistaken in believing
that Valjean had been recaptured? Or was this a ruse
to coax the Mayor into revealing himself, thus confirming
Javert's suspicions?
2. When Fantine dies, Valjean promises Javert he'll return
in a few days, after he tends to Cosette. This never
happens, and we next see Cosette as a young adult.
Question 2: Did Valjean intend to keep his word
with Javert, or was this B.S.?
3. At the end of Act I, Valjean says he'll leave for
Calais the next day (to escape what he believes are
"the shadows of the past").
Question 3: If so, how does he end
up involved at the barricade the next day?
Are these questions definitively answered in the book,
or are they subject to conjecture?
Follow-up replies appreciated. Email is also welcome.
Thanks,
Daniel
--
**************************************************************
Daniel Gilly dgi...@borland.com
Borland International Scotts Valley, California
k. lee
: 1. At the runaway cart, Javert's memory of Valjean is stirred.
: Javert then informs "The Mayor" that he has captured Valjean.
: Question 1: Was Javert honestly mistaken in believing
: that Valjean had been recaptured? Or was this a ruse
: to coax the Mayor into revealing himself, thus confirming
: Javert's suspicions?
You can probably read it either way, although I tend to agree with the former.
In the book this episode is handled differently: the affair with the cart
occurs, Javert has his suspicions, and then finds out that this other guy
thought to be Valjean is captured. he then approaches our esteemable M'sieur
le Maire and admits his mistake. And since Javert considers himself to have
wronged an upright character, he asks Valjean to have him discharged (or take
some equivalent punitive action, I'm kind of hazy on this). I actually like
this part a lot as it reveals much about Javert's concept of justice and
righteousness, which is essential if one were to understand more fully his
suicide. I guess the stage demands a faster-moving plot and hence the whole
episode is made more compact.
The reason I agree with the interpretation that J was genuinely mistaken is
because there is a line in which he apologizes to Valjean for having
entertained the notion that he is the fugitive and which goes: "Forgive me sir,
I would not dare" and in all the productions I have seen I have no reason to
suspect that the sentiment is not supposed to be genuine. J's character is
respective of authority and one always sees him upholding the existing class
hierarchy. I doubt that he would use a devious scheme on the Mayor with so
little to go on.
: 2. When Fantine dies, Valjean promises Javert he'll return
: in a few days, after he tends to Cosette. This never
: happens, and we next see Cosette as a young adult.
: Question 2: Did Valjean intend to keep his word
: with Javert, or was this B.S.?
Again in the book, Valjean's original intention is to bring Cosette to
Fantine, hoping that the reconciliation will cure the latter. Once the two
are reunited, he will be content to give himself up to the law. (In the book
Fantine dies only DURING the confrontation scene, after Valjean has pleaded
with Javert for the 3 extra days.) Javert refuses to give in, and Valjean then
escapes, disappearing for a couple of days, during which he settles some stuff
which includes hiding his wealth somewhere. He is then recaptured and spends
several months in jail (hard labor?) before escaping.
In the musical, yes, it seems not to make sense anymore for valjean to promis
to be back in three days after Fantine has died.But given how it's supposed
to happen in the book, one can rationalize that he intends to tend to the
business of his money in those three days, surrender himself then make his
escape later to go back for Cosette.
: 3. At the end of Act I, Valjean says he'll leave for
: Calais the next day (to escape what he believes are
: "the shadows of the past").
:
: Question 3: If so, how does he end
: up involved at the barricade the next day?
The letter written by Marius to Cosette, brought by Eponine but intercepted
by Valjean, has a tremendous impact on him. Remember that he has been totally
unaware of this relationship, in fact practically oblivious to the fact that
Cosette is no longer a child ("In My Life"). The revelation of the romance
convinces him to do what he can to ensure Marius' safety so that the pair can
be happy together. (In the book the internal conflict Valjean undergoes is
made more explicit: on the one hand he is jealous of M who is essentially here
to take C away from him, yet he does want C to be happy. But his appearance
at the barricade can be explained from within the musical itself.)
Hope this all helps. Any differing opinions welcome!
-k.l.
Margaret Bergen
>I have a few questions about the plot of Les Miserables.
>I've never read the book. (I saw a made-for-TV movie
>about 19 long years ago. :-)) I've seen the musical once,
>and I've listened to the cast recording at least 10 times.
>
>There are a few things that don't make sense to me.
>(Spoiler alert for those who don't want to read about the plot.)
can, although I don't remember everything.
>
>
>1. At the runaway cart, Javert's memory of Valjean is stirred.
> Javert then informs "The Mayor" that he has captured Valjean.
>
> Question 1: Was Javert honestly mistaken in believing
> that Valjean had been recaptured? Or was this a ruse
> to coax the Mayor into revealing himself, thus confirming
> Javert's suspicions?
>
sentence him when Valjean bursts in. I don't think they believe him until
he shows the jury the prison number. I can't remember if those scenes are
in the play or not.
>2. When Fantine dies, Valjean promises Javert he'll return
> in a few days, after he tends to Cosette. This never
> happens, and we next see Cosette as a young adult.
>
sent off to help row a boat with a bunch of prisoners. Somewhere along the
way, I think he saves a man from drowning and then disappears into the
water. They think he has drowned but he has swum away. I'm not confusing
this with some movie am I?
> Question 2: Did Valjean intend to keep his word
> with Javert, or was this B.S.?
>
>3. At the end of Act I, Valjean says he'll leave for
> Calais the next day (to escape what he believes are
> "the shadows of the past").
>
> Question 3: If so, how does he end
> up involved at the barricade the next day?
>
to leave, and when he intercepts the message from Marius sent through
Eponine he goes to meet Marius at the barricade instead of giving her the
letter. I am not sure though.
>
>Are these questions definitively answered in the book,
>or are they subject to conjecture?
>
>Follow-up replies appreciated. Email is also welcome.
A couple of other things you might not know if you haven't read the book.
1. Gavroche is a Thenardier. Eponines brother. They also have two
younger kids that I think they abandon.
2. Valjean doesn't like Marius at all. Also, Marius treats Valjean very
badly when he finds out that he is an escaped convict.
3. In the book, when Eponine dies, Marius just leaves her in the street,
and I think reads a letter that Cosette gave him. You do know that she got
killed because she stopped a bullet meant for him don't you?
Sorry, I'll quit rambling:)
>
>Thanks,
> Daniel
>
>--
>**************************************************************
>Daniel Gilly dgi...@borland.com
>Borland International Scotts Valley, California
--
Ask every person if he's heard the story, and tell it strong and clear if he
has not, that once there was a fleeting wisp of glory, called Camelot.
Don't let it be forgot, that once there was a spot, for one brief shining
moment that was known as Camelot. mbe...@iastate.edu (Meg)
Ed Mendelssohn
>Daniel Gilly (dgi...@honda.interbase.borland.com) wrote:
>: 2. When Fantine dies, Valjean promises Javert he'll return
>: in a few days, after he tends to Cosette. This never
>: happens, and we next see Cosette as a young adult.
>
>: Question 2: Did Valjean intend to keep his word
>: with Javert, or was this B.S.?
>
>Again in the book, Valjean's original intention is to bring Cosette to
>Fantine, hoping that the reconciliation will cure the latter. Once the two
>are reunited, he will be content to give himself up to the law. (In the book
>Fantine dies only DURING the confrontation scene, after Valjean has pleaded
>with Javert for the 3 extra days.) Javert refuses to give in, and Valjean then
>escapes, disappearing for a couple of days, during which he settles some stuff
>which includes hiding his wealth somewhere. He is then recaptured and spends
>several months in jail (hard labor?) before escaping.
>In the musical, yes, it seems not to make sense anymore for valjean to promis
>to be back in three days after Fantine has died.But given how it's supposed
>to happen in the book, one can rationalize that he intends to tend to the
>business of his money in those three days, surrender himself then make his
>escape later to go back for Cosette.
>
in the lyrics of "The Confrontation"....
"This woman leaves behind a suffering child...There is none but me who can
intercede...in heavens name, three days are all I need. Then I'll return, I
pledge my word, then I'll return..."
So, even though Fantine has already died, Valjean just wants to help her
daughter, Cosette, to get out of the situation with the Thenardiers (sp?),
(perhaps finding her a decent home) and then returning to Javert (perhaps,
as the book suggests, he ALSO plans to tend to his money, but we certainly
don't know that from the libretto).
-Ed Mendelssohn
Jessica Cope
actually, the Thenardiers sold their two youngest boys, and Gavroche found
them in the street after their new "parents" were (i believe) thrown in
jail. Gav was quite the valiant son, saving his father (M. Thena) from
the law in a jailbreak, but having to abandon his brothers (whom he just
saw as too abandoned kids - didn't even know he had more sibs)...
and there was another sister in the family besides Eponine. Madame Th adored
her daughters and left her sons to the streets... she also thought of her
husband as quite an intelligent man in the book. doesn't matter tho, because
of the family, the two little boys become street brats (much like their
brother) eponine is shot at the barricades (Through the hand as she covers
the barrel of a gun to prevent the shot from killing Marius and then
through the chest) She also dies thinking that Marius will die too. almost
hopeing that he will... *cough* typical woman. "if i can't have him, at least
I know Cosette won't either" :}
i saw the musical for the first time last night.the set was incredible.
btw, anybody know of anything else V. Hugo's written that's been put in
english? i can't find anything at all in french or english.. (not that
French would do me much good. mine's terribly rusty :)
i read the book (les mis) a while back, but not so long ago that it's not
still mostly there, so if anybody's got another question, i'd love to hear
from them..
and i also highly recomend reading the book - tho you should allow a LOT of
time... not exactly light reading... and it does tend to drag on a bit
sometimes (like the (5?) chapters about the sewers of france.)
:) er, i'm rambling too methinks. have fun...
jes
Tony Lin
>
> [plot deleted]
>
>i saw the musical for the first time last night.the set was incredible.
>btw, anybody know of anything else V. Hugo's written that's been put in
>english? i can't find anything at all in french or english.. (not that
>French would do me much good. mine's terribly rusty :)
>
My girlfriend and I saw the "touring" production of Les Mis ... the one
that comes in, performs for a week, and then leaves. Has anyone seen
_both_ the touring production and a "regular" production? How do they
differ?
On a related note, how does the "touring" production of Phantom compare
to a regular production? I can't imagine setting up chandaliers, boats,
etc. for only a one week show ... how long does such a production last?
Thanks!
-- Tony
RAANDY MCCLELLAN
Lin) wrote:
[stuff deleted]
>
> On a related note, how does the "touring" production of Phantom compare
> to a regular production? I can't imagine setting up chandaliers, boats,
> etc. for only a one week show ... how long does such a production last?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Tony
I've seen the real phantom in New York and am going to see the touring
version May 25 in Nashville. I do know that there is a theaatre
modification fee on each ticket to allow for, i guesss theatre
modifications! Plus it is on for 6 weeks instead of just one.
foster bass fb2390@uacsc1.albany.edu
New York version:
I was the assistant to the Production Manager (John Paull) for both of these
shows, adn I can say that he (along with Cameron Macintosh) is VERY
careful to make all of their touring companies as much like the Broadway
company as possible.
If you have only seen Phantom once or twice, on Broadway, you will NOT
notice a difference when you see the tour. As for Lez Miz, there are also
NO noticible differences. (the one difference I can think of is that on
Broadway, the center of the stage, about a five foot diameter, can be held
still while the rest spins - in the tour, the center spins with the rest.
Since this effect is only used for Lovely Ladies, it isn't easily noticed!)
Phantom is, by it's nature, a little more difficult to reproduce, but take my
word for it, it comes pretty damn close! (John Paul, and Allen Wasser choose
theatres that are equipt to handle the show, so they don't have to cut
anything.)
Steve Lorenzo
> My girlfriend and I saw the "touring" production of Les Mis ... the one
> that comes in, performs for a week, and then leaves. Has anyone seen
> _both_ the touring production and a "regular" production? How do they
> differ?
I've seen the Broadway production (in both its incarnations), the first
national tour and the third national tour. When "Les Miz" was housed in
the Broadway Theater (1987 - 1990), the differences between it and the
touring productions were noticeable. The set for the ABC Cafe was on a
platform that trucked up and downstage; the touring productions had the
actors carry the tables and chairs up and downstage. The Paris street
scene in act I had enough room on the revolve so that the two set pieces
didn't have to be pulled together, revolved, and pulled back apart before
the bridge was lowered. Now that the Broadway company is housed in the
Imperial, the staging from the touring companies has been incorporated, due
to space constraints in the smaller theater. Occasionally, in the third
national tour, the trap door into the sewers has not worked; the
Thenardiers come running in from opposite sides of the stage during "One
Day More," and Valjean just carries Marius offstage before "Dog Eats Dog."
Otherwise, the staging is pretty uniform among the different companies. In
fact, last year the third national tour cast, as an ensemble, was stronger
than the assembled Broadway company -- though Lea Salonga's Eponine was
simply wonderful.
>
> On a related note, how does the "touring" production of Phantom compare
> to a regular production? I can't imagine setting up chandaliers, boats,
> etc. for only a one week show ... how long does such a production last?
In the tour that's currently in the Auditorium in Chicago, the only major
difference between that and the production in the Majestic in NYC is the
density of candles during the title song. Also, the giant candelabra that
flank the wings roll onto the stage (tour) as opposed to rising from the
floor (B'way). This company has been in Chicago since December; it's
scheduled to stay for one more month.
Hope this info helps!
- Steve
tung...@eyecon.com
The touring productions of "The Phantom of the Opera" usually perform
for 2-6 months in a city before packing up the chandelier and moving on.
The national touring company (now in Chicago) and the "bus & truck"
touring company (now in Nashville) are both first class and are just as
impressive as the broadway company (almost!).
Trevor Bruss
:
: i saw the musical for the first time last night.the set was incredible.
: btw, anybody know of anything else V. Hugo's written that's been put in
: english? i can't find anything at all in french or english.. (not that
: French would do me much good. mine's terribly rusty :)
Probably the next well known book by Victor Hugo is The Hunchback of
Notre Dame.
--
Trevor T. Bruss Carpe Viam--- Seize the road!! __o o
br...@research.inland.com (219) 399-4910 -- Work ..._/\o_ \<, .<
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