1x6 vs. 2x4 on platforms
Xandu
scenery, and he seems _very_ keen on 1x6 (as opposed to 2x4) for
construction of platforms. now, i have never done this, and we have
a lot of poor quality 2x4 in our shop. has anyone ever used both, so
can judge which is actually -- for lack of a better word -- better?
cost is a big concern, so let's keep that in mind :)
while i'm at it, he also talked about a kind of "step leg" (can't
remember exactly what it's called). it consists of 2 1x3's glued
together, so they're almost the equivalent to 1 2x4. one of the 1x3's
is a little shorter than the other, resulting in the platform _frame_
resting on the end of the shorter 1x3... i've always used 2x4's on the
inside of the frame, but can see the tactical advantages to doing it
bill raoul's way. any opinions on this?
-alex reid
-technical director, wildwood summer theatre
-bethesda, maryland
-xa...@emf.lan.mcgill.ca
-check out our web page at: http://www.wst.org/ !!
Tim Resch
>
> okay, i was reading bill raoul's _excellent_ book on building stock
> scenery, and he seems _very_ keen on 1x6 (as opposed to 2x4) for
> construction of platforms. now, i have never done this, and we have
> a lot of poor quality 2x4 in our shop. has anyone ever used both, so
> can judge which is actually -- for lack of a better word -- better?
> cost is a big concern, so let's keep that in mind :)
>
> while i'm at it, he also talked about a kind of "step leg" (can't
> remember exactly what it's called). it consists of 2 1x3's glued
> together, so they're almost the equivalent to 1 2x4. one of the 1x3's
> is a little shorter than the other, resulting in the platform _frame_
> resting on the end of the shorter 1x3... i've always used 2x4's on the
> inside of the frame, but can see the tactical advantages to doing it
> bill raoul's way. any opinions on this?
I've tried both, and I prefer the 2x4's in most cases. If you
need a platform that's 6" off the deck, go with the 1x. The problem is
that they don't hold up as a stock unit. (for me anyway)
As for the step leg, its also called a compression leg. These
are about the strongest kind of leg going. Plus they can't push the lid
off the platform frame as is prone to happen just putting the leg in the
corner.
Just a thought...
************************************************************************Tim "Toolslinger" Resch
tools...@psu.edu
Tech Direction, Lighting, Carpentry, Electrics, Etc....
"Don't be any one thing, specialization is for insects!!!....
************************************************************************
Jeff Darden
>
> okay, i was reading bill raoul's _excellent_ book on building stock
> scenery, and he seems _very_ keen on 1x6 (as opposed to 2x4) for
> construction of platforms. now, i have never done this, and we have
> a lot of poor quality 2x4 in our shop. has anyone ever used both, so
> can judge which is actually -- for lack of a better word -- better?
> cost is a big concern, so let's keep that in mind :)
While 1x6 construction is lighter in weight, when I last looked into it,
it was also more expensive. Another disadvantage is the additional space
required for storage or trucking if you're touring.
> while i'm at it, he also talked about a kind of "step leg" (can't
> remember exactly what it's called). it consists of 2 1x3's glued
> together, so they're almost the equivalent to 1 2x4. one of the 1x3's
> is a little shorter than the other, resulting in the platform _frame_
> resting on the end of the shorter 1x3... i've always used 2x4's on the
> inside of the frame, but can see the tactical advantages to doing it
> bill raoul's way. any opinions on this?
The term for these is, I believe, compression legs. I've used a similar
system on 2x4 framed platforms and really liked them. Buy putting the
legs in compression you take full advantage of the woods strength.
Additionally, I like the fact that the leg supports the frame which in
turn supports the lid. So many systems seem to wind up being a leg which
supports the lid which then is stiffened by the frame.
If you go with this system I'd love to hear how it works; particularly
down the road.
Ruth Anne Francis
Xandu <B7W...@MUSICB.MCGILL.CA> wrote:
>okay, i was reading bill raoul's _excellent_ book on building stock
>scenery, and he seems _very_ keen on 1x6 (as opposed to 2x4) for
>construction of platforms. now, i have never done this, and we have
>a lot of poor quality 2x4 in our shop. has anyone ever used both, so
>can judge which is actually -- for lack of a better word -- better?
>cost is a big concern, so let's keep that in mind :)
The theater that I work at (DramaTech, Georiga Tech's student theater.)
looked into building platforms very similar to Raoul's method. We can't
afford 1x6, so we tried it with 1x4. Lots of good things about platforms
built this way. They're light, they're cheap, they look really swell.
But, there are also some big drawbacks. We found that they just weren't as
sturdy. The problem of screwing into a 1xanything on the thin end didn't
make many people happy. There's just not a lot of wood there. Even if you
manage to hit it square on, there's not a whole lot of wood to hold the
screw in. They'd probably work well for a couple of shows, but we were
very concerened about durability and building platforms with 1x just didn't
seem to be sturdy enough for our needs.
>while i'm at it, he also talked about a kind of "step leg" (can't
>remember exactly what it's called). it consists of 2 1x3's glued
>together, so they're almost the equivalent to 1 2x4. one of the 1x3's
>is a little shorter than the other, resulting in the platform _frame_
>resting on the end of the shorter 1x3... i've always used 2x4's on the
>inside of the frame, but can see the tactical advantages to doing it
>bill raoul's way. any opinions on this?
Again, lots of good things about them. From a structural standpoint, they
are excellent. The weight of the platform rests directly on the stills,
not on the top piece. This (I'm told) has the potential to make the
platforms last a lot longer (if your problem is with the tops pulling away
from the frames, ours isn't.) Also, these legs are good and strong and 1x4
is cheap.
However, again, in our situation, these aren't what we are looking for.
They are a lot omre complicated than a straight 2x4 leg and require a good
deal of accuracy when making them. Also, again the fact that there is a
lot less wood in a 1x4 where the bolt goes as opposed to a 2x4 makes me
think that these type of legs, especially of not braced correctly, could
present some problems. (And, I don't think that we could reuse them as
many times as Raoul mentions, our people just aren't that careful about
over tightening bolts.)
So, to sum it up.
Raoul's book is great.
His platforms are wonderful, but they don't work for the theater that I'm
working with.
One thing you should highly consider is building one or two prototype
platforms and seeing how they stand up to your circumstances. That's what
we did and it kept us from making a very costly mistake as well teach us a
lot about what we are looking for in platforms.
(Standard diclaimers. My opinions. Not Gulfstream's. Not Tech's. Just
mine.)
Ruth Ann
--
Ruth Ann Francis - A misplaced Michigander at GA Tech
Georgia Tech Aerospace Engineering Major gt0...@acme.gatech.edu
Co-op Gulfstream Aerospace rfra...@voyager.eng.gulfaero.com"Second star to the right and straight on 'til morning" -Peter Pan
DramaTech mistress carpenter (MCFH) DT militia commander of coops (abroad)
Jonah Horowitz
>
> Xandu wrote:
> >
> > okay, i was reading bill raoul's _excellent_ book on building stock
> > scenery, and he seems _very_ keen on 1x6 (as opposed to 2x4) for
> > construction of platforms. now, i have never done this, and we have
> > a lot of poor quality 2x4 in our shop. has anyone ever used both, so
> > can judge which is actually -- for lack of a better word -- better?
> > cost is a big concern, so let's keep that in mind :)
> >
> > remember exactly what it's called). it consists of 2 1x3's glued
> > together, so they're almost the equivalent to 1 2x4. one of the 1x3's
> > is a little shorter than the other, resulting in the platform _frame_
> > resting on the end of the shorter 1x3... i've always used 2x4's on the
> > inside of the frame, but can see the tactical advantages to doing it
> > bill raoul's way. any opinions on this?
>
> need a platform that's 6" off the deck, go with the 1x. The problem is
> that they don't hold up as a stock unit. (for me anyway)
> As for the step leg, its also called a compression leg. These
> are about the strongest kind of leg going. Plus they can't push the lid
> off the platform frame as is prone to happen just putting the leg in the
> corner.
> Just a thought...
> ************************************************************************Tim "Toolslinger" Resch
> tools...@psu.edu
> Tech Direction, Lighting, Carpentry, Electrics, Etc....
> "Don't be any one thing, specialization is for insects!!!....
easier to build and much cleaner of a platform to use in a production. I
have many of them in stock and have had no problem with them lasting
forever. I think they are also lighter but I have never tested the fact.
Jonah Horowitz
horo...@ithaca.edu
Lighting Design & Production Management.
Jonah Horowitz
Dave the Magni
>okay, i was reading bill raoul's _excellent_ book on building stock
>scenery, and he seems _very_ keen on 1x6 (as opposed to 2x4) for
>construction of platforms. now, i have never done this, and we have
>a lot of poor quality 2x4 in our shop. has anyone ever used both, so
>can judge which is actually -- for lack of a better word -- better?
>cost is a big concern, so let's keep that in mind :)
I've used both, and I've found reasons to like both. Some thoughts-
2x4 pros:
More surface area for glue and fastener joints
Stronger platform to platform seams
Lower profile - can be under +6" finished
Longer wear
2x4 cons:
Slightly heavier
1x6 pros:
More rigid
Uses shorter fasteners
Slightly lighter
1x6 cons:
Too tall for +6" increments[1]
I prefer to use 5/4 x 3.5" hardwood (poplar) for stock platforms where
the life of the unit can justify the additional expense, and 1x6 pine
for single use units. It can be a headache to have more than one size
framing in stock.
>while i'm at it, he also talked about a kind of "step leg" (can't
>remember exactly what it's called). it consists of 2 1x3's glued
>together, so they're almost the equivalent to 1 2x4. one of the 1x3's
>is a little shorter than the other, resulting in the platform _frame_
>resting on the end of the shorter 1x3... i've always used 2x4's on the
>inside of the frame, but can see the tactical advantages to doing it
>bill raoul's way. any opinions on this?
That's a compression leg. They're great. I've used them with 1/2 ply
as the attachment plate, not another 1x3. Crossbraces are very
important over +18", since you're relying on the fasteners and not the
rigidity of the frame to keep things in line.
[1] From milled stock, the finished height is 6". I rip the 1x6 to 5",
to allow for a 1/4" pad. This makes it easier to avoid high spots on
the stage the floor.
--
dar...@tezcat.com
http://www.tezcat.com/~darsal/
...it's always midnight, somewhere on the net.
Jack Etheridge
I very much dislike 1x6 platforms for a few reasons:
The 1x6 is not as rugged in production use as the 2x4 is. This results in frequent
repair/replacement of the platform.
Relating to the first point, 2x4 is significantly stronger and yields a greater surface area for
gluing the frame and the lid. 2x4 on edge (20% moisture, doug. fir or similar) supported on
2'-0" centers will support 2000 lbs with < = 1/32" deflection. If you get a cruddy piece of 1x6,
as we often do, it will not take this kind of stress.
Lastly, I believe in adhering to standards in technical theatre. The 2x4 stock platform is tried
and true and serves its' functions well. It is also lower profile than the 1x6 version, which
leads to some added versitility.
On your last point about the lamenated 1x legging system. It is a version of the compression leg
that is also typically made of 2x4 w/ a 3/4" x 9" plywood scab. The 2x4 sits under the stile of
the platform and the plywood scab extends 3 1/4" above the leg to attach to the platform stile.
It is a versitile legging system that reduces the demand on mechanical fasteners to carry the
load on the platform.
- Jack Etheridge
Technical Director
Marin Theatre Company
Mill Valley, California
Jonah Horowitz wrote:
>
> Tim Resch wrote:
> >
> > Xandu wrote:
> > >
> > > okay, i was reading bill raoul's _excellent_ book on building stock
> > > scenery, and he seems _very_ keen on 1x6 (as opposed to 2x4) for
> > > construction of platforms. now, i have never done this, and we have
> > > a lot of poor quality 2x4 in our shop. has anyone ever used both, so
> > > can judge which is actually -- for lack of a better word -- better?
> > > cost is a big concern, so let's keep that in mind :)
> > >
> > > while i'm at it, he also talked about a kind of "step leg" (can't
> > > remember exactly what it's called). it consists of 2 1x3's glued
> > > together, so they're almost the equivalent to 1 2x4. one of the 1x3's
> > > is a little shorter than the other, resulting in the platform _frame_
> > > resting on the end of the shorter 1x3... i've always used 2x4's on the
> > > inside of the frame, but can see the tactical advantages to doing it
> > > bill raoul's way. any opinions on this?
> >
> > I've tried both, and I prefer the 2x4's in most cases. If you
> > need a platform that's 6" off the deck, go with the 1x. The problem is
> > that they don't hold up as a stock unit. (for me anyway)
> > As for the step leg, its also called a compression leg. These
> > are about the strongest kind of leg going. Plus they can't push the lid
> > off the platform frame as is prone to happen just putting the leg in the
> > corner.
> > Just a thought...
> > ************************************************************************Tim "Toolslinger" Resch
> > tools...@psu.edu
> > Tech Direction, Lighting, Carpentry, Electrics, Etc....
> > "Don't be any one thing, specialization is for insects!!!....
> > ************************************************************************I have used both 2x4 and 1x6 platforms and I have found the 1x6 much
JTCotton
platforms go back much further than 2"x4" platforms. And, strictly
speaking, in the vertical plane a 1"x6" is STRONGER than a 2"x4". A 1"x6"
platform also weighs less. Having said these things, 2"x4" platforms
generally come out better, stronger and take up less space in storage.
The big reason for this, IMHO, is the steady decrease in the actual size
of dimensional lumber over the past 75 years or so. It would be much
easier to build a platform out of true 1"x6" stock, than the barely 5
1/4"x3/4" stock that is currently available.
In any event Bill Raoul's book is a great lesson in the traditional
methods of scenery construction. It was mandatory reading when I was in
school at Binghamton University, and I'm grateful.
Just my nickels worth,
JTC
Live Sound, Production Management, John T. Cotton
Audio & Video Engineering, Theatre, P.O. Box 135
Consulting & more. Binghamton,
NY 13905-0135
JTCo...@aol.com
JTCo...@musicbiz.com
Michael T Jones
I've worked with both platform styles. For height, 1x6's don't
need legging for some sets. But 2x4's are easier to store and are more
versitile for shorter levels.
As for step legs, they have the stabilit, but if you don't plan to
stock them, their time consuming remaking them for everyshow.
Mike