Hardboard stage flats
Jack Murdoch
Looking at previous posts re masonite/hardboard, for the avoidance of doubt,
hardboard is the UK stuff, 3mm thick, smooth 1 side and rough reverse.
The 3" x 1" framing is flat to the hardboard such that the overall thickness
of the flat is 1" plus 3mm (sorry to mix units!). I have used 2 verticals on
each of the two long edges, and 4 horizontals, one at each end with the
other two equally spaced between them. All joints are butted, (i.e. placed
together and not actually jointed) 'triangled' with 4mm ply which is glued
and nail-gunned to the frame.
The hardboard will then be glued and nailgunned to the frames when they are
dry.
Hardboard never seems to lie dead flat. I'm worried that when fixed to the
frames, and no matter how many nails are used, there will still be some
distortion. I have read about the ideas of dampening the board when using as
a floor: I experimented with 1 sheet and the board expanded as much as 5mm
over the long edge. If I fix it to the frames in the expanded condition,
would the frames bend noticeably as it shrinks back to its original size?
I can't use heavier timbers for the frames for cost/transport/storage
reasons.
The flats will be wallpapered when assembled on stage. Should I pre-prepare
the surface of the hardboard in any way?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks. Jack.
Dennis Schneider
"Jack Murdoch" <jackm...@thefreeinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3d77...@news.greennet.net...
> I'm making a fixed 'box' set using 8' x 4' hardboard on 3" x 1" frames.
> Looking at previous posts re masonite/hardboard, for the avoidance of
doubt,
> hardboard is the UK stuff, 3mm thick, smooth 1 side and rough reverse.
> Hardboard never seems to lie dead flat. I'm worried that when fixed to the
> frames, and no matter how many nails are used, there will still be some
> distortion. I have read about the ideas of dampening the board when using
as
> a floor: I experimented with 1 sheet and the board expanded as much as 5mm
> over the long edge. If I fix it to the frames in the expanded condition,
> would the frames bend noticeably as it shrinks back to its original size?
>Should I pre-prepare
> the surface of the hardboard in any way?
>
> Any thoughts would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks. Jack.
>
>
Jack,
A couple of thoughts:
1. Paint both sides of the hardboard first. Matters little what kind of
paint - idea is to get the surfaces to seal so they don't accept humidity
changes directly.
2. Instead of using 3"x1" lumber for the frames, rip a sheet of plywood (say
3/4") into 1" strips and glue/clamp/air-staple these to 2"x1" with the plys
at right angles to the "inside" of the frame/one finished surface of the ply
taking the glue. (You can make these up full length and then cut them as
unit). When you cut the frames, cut the corners at 45 degrees (the plywood
should all be at the outside of the frame when you're done) and apply your
triangles/glue/etc. This way you get a frame that is much more resistant to
deforming. I've used this approach with shrink mirror and it works really
well.
3. Alternatively, apply hardboard to both sides of the frame. One skin will
keep the other from deforming. Adds weight...
Dennis
Roger T & Heather B.
--
"Jack Murdoch" <jackm...@thefreeinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3d77...@news.greennet.net...
> I'm making a fixed 'box' set using 8' x 4' hardboard on 3" x 1" frames.
> Looking at previous posts re masonite/hardboard, for the avoidance of
doubt,
> hardboard is the UK stuff, 3mm thick, smooth 1 side and rough reverse.
Hardboard? That's has heavy as hell.
Why not use 1/8 mahogany? Perhaps known as 2ply in the UK. It's the stuff
that they use for door skin on hollow doors. It's much lighter, probably
cheaper and just as sturdy. It comes in 4 x 8 foot sheets.
BTW, notice another difference between North American and the UK.
UK they'll say 8 x 4ft, 4 x 2", 3 x 1"
North America, 4 x 8ft, 2 x 4", 1 x 3"
All goes back, I feel, to when the Americans (As in U.S.A.) had their little
disagreement with the UK (Not England) and decided to go it alone. They
wanted to be different so they changed many things to the direct opposite of
what they did in the UK.
Examples as above plus driving on the other side of the road, military drill
and rank markings etc., etc.
Cheers
Roger T.
http://www.islandnet.com/~rogertra/
Dave White
>
>UK they'll say 8 x 4ft, 4 x 2", 3 x 1"
>
>North America, 4 x 8ft, 2 x 4", 1 x 3"
>
>All goes back, I feel, to when the Americans (As in U.S.A.) had their little
>disagreement with the UK (Not England) and decided to go it alone. They
>wanted to be different so they changed many things to the direct opposite of
>what they did in the UK.
>
>Examples as above plus driving on the other side of the road, military drill
>and rank markings etc., etc.
Backwards Dates too....
--
Dave White
E-mail: da...@tega.co.uk
http://www.tega.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tega - technical entertainment solutions
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Murdoch
"Roger T & Heather B." <roge...@islandnet.com> wrote in message
news:10312398...@news.islandnet.com...
The ply I can get is 4mm far-eastern: I think that's what you're talking
about, but costs £6 per sheet rather than £2.50 for the hardboard. And it's
sometimes not as flat (depends on the timber merchant, I suppose).
For 18 flats, that's £63 more. My budget for the ENTIRE set is £200. And I
think I can do it!!!
Appreciate your other remarks :-)
Jack.
Chris45
will insist on 4mm coded ply.
"Jack Murdoch" <jackm...@thefreeinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3d77...@news.greennet.net...
Peter Herman
Jack Murdoch wrote:
> [snip]
>
> The ply I can get is 4mm far-eastern: I think that's what you're talking
> about, but costs £6 per sheet rather than £2.50 for the hardboard. And it's
> sometimes not as flat (depends on the timber merchant, I suppose).
>
>
Interesting price difference. Here (SW USA) 1/8 luan runs $6.27 a sheet while
1/8 hardboard (masonite) runs about $8 a sheet as does the thicker luan.
So, here at least, you don't need to choose between straining your wallet or
your back!
Peter
Christopher Jahn
Personally, I wouldn't use hardboard for this application - as
you've noted, it doesn't lay flat. It's also heavy, and doesn't
take getting wet very well (and painting it can get it very wet
indeed).
I always use 1/4" or 1/8" lauan or similar cabinet-grade
plywood. It's usually ligher, and stiffer, and doesn't warp and
swell when painted.
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( Dionysian Reveler
Don't give up, push a pawn
To reply: chrisjahn AT MyRealBox.com
Ronald Killmer
>
> --
> }:-) Christopher Jahn
> {:-( Dionysian Reveler
>
> Don't give up, push a pawn
>
Can We pawn the pusher?
--
Ronald Killmer
Stage Lighting Designer
Roger T & Heather B.
--
"Dave White"
> Backwards Dates too....
Yeah. What did happen on the 9th of November anyway? They seem to be
making a big fuss over it.
Roger T & Heather B.
--
"Jack Murdoch" <
> The ply I can get is 4mm far-eastern: I think that's what you're talking
> about, but costs £6 per sheet rather than £2.50 for the hardboard. And
it's
> sometimes not as flat (depends on the timber merchant, I suppose).
>
> For 18 flats, that's £63 more. My budget for the ENTIRE set is £200. And I
> think I can do it!!!
"Doorskin" is about 1/8 thick, don't have a metric measure to hand to tell
you what that is in mm. The advantage of "doorskin" is that you can fix it
to the framework with 1/2" staples and white glue. Put stiles every two
feet and that should hold everything nice and flat.
Give your local lumber yard, home improvement centre a visit. They may be
able to help. Over here, in expensive Canada, "doorskin" is cheaper than
Masonite (Hardboard).
Del DeLorm
"Roger T & Heather B." <roge...@islandnet.com> wrote in message
news:10312913...@news.islandnet.com...