Theatre Seating
Mekon
We are proposing to take over a church building and convert it into a
permanent theatre home for our group.
Does anyone have any sources for the various alternatives for theatre
seating?
We are at planning stage now so we just want to examine the possibilities
and then establish a budget for the project. The room is has high ceilings
so could accommodate tiered scaffolding type seats or we could build a
proscenium and make the floor more gently sloped. The floor is hardwood.
Mekon
Roger T.
"Mekon"
> Hi all,
>
> We are proposing to take over a church building and convert it into a
> permanent theatre home for our group.
And what country, continent or hemisphere are we talking about?
This is an international newsgroups after all. The world doesn't rotate
around whatever country you reside in. :-)
--
Cheers
Roger T.
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/
Russ Greene
seating configuration? What is the difference if the church is in the US or
Canada or the UK, Australia, etc?
Cheers,
Russ
"Roger T." <roge...@highspeedplus.com> wrote in message
news:10567157...@news.islandnet.com...
Dale Farmer
Russ Greene wrote:
> Of what possible consideration is location in determining what type of
> seating configuration? What is the difference if the church is in the US or
> Canada or the UK, Australia, etc?
>
> Cheers,
> Russ
Off the top of my head.
1. Local manufacturer and availability of same. If there is a company
in the next town over that makes seating, you can probably get them
cheaper from the local place. This ignores import tariffs which may be
even more money.
2. Differing laws for seating in theatres. Seats that are perfectly fine
in country A, may be illegal in country B for any number of reasons.
3. Used seating sources. Maybe a theatre in a nearby town is being
demolished, and the seating in it would be available for the cost of removal.
--Dale
Dave White
so it even matters which Environmental Health Dept you come under! I
assume it varies at least between countries in other parts of the
world..... The only way in the UK to know what you have to do to make em
happy is really to ask them!
Dave
In message <bdc5qq$g3g$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>, Russ Greene
<rrgr...@hotmail.com> writes
--
Dave White
E-mail: da...@tega.co.uk
http://www.tega.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tega - technical entertainment solutions
-------------------------------------------------------------------
David Lee
<bdc5qq$g3g$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net>...
> Of what possible consideration is location in determining what type of
> seating configuration? What is the difference if the church is in the US
or
> Canada or the UK, Australia, etc?
>
Well the post did ask "Does anyone have any sources for the various
alternatives for theatre
seating?" So I expect a source in Alice Springs may not be much use if
your church is in East Grinstead!
Russ Greene
raised.
Russ
"Dale Farmer" <Da...@cybercom.net> wrote in message
news:3EF99D3D...@cybercom.net...
Russ Greene
point of the original post. I grant you that there may be local laws about
clearances, accesses, and exits... but I would be surprised to hear that
East Sussex forbids a 'Black Box" set up or would prevent a Thrust Stage
configuration.
I thought the point of the post was to discuss the relative merits of types
of setup with regard to productions -- not availability of actual seats, or
meetiong local codes.
Russ
"Dave White" <da...@tega.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qNcTqyA7...@tega.co.uk...
Russ Greene
Russ
"David Lee" <davidlee_malver...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:01c33b33$54ea54c0$7551b80a@DAVID_LEE...
Roger T.
"Russ Greene" <rrgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdcit9$fcv$1...@slb9.atl.mindspring.net...
> okay...my bad...
Your bad what?
Russ Greene
quickly, so that was 'my bad'
Russ
"Roger T." <roge...@highspeedplus.com> wrote in message
news:10567597...@news.islandnet.com...
Roger T.
> Sicne they did ask about resources, geography is an issue... I read it too
> quickly, so that was 'my bad'
Like I said, your bad what?
"My bad" isn't even a sentence and makes absolutely no sense.
Did you really mean "My mistake" or "My error"?
Russ Greene
that clears it up for you (although I suspect that you are just winding me
up...)
Cheers
Russ
"Roger T." <roge...@highspeedplus.com> wrote in message
news:10567675...@news.islandnet.com...
Mekon
Vine Street
Clayfield
Brisbane
Australia
Oceania
Southern Hemisphere
Mekon
>
Ynot
"We are proposing to take over a church building and convert it into a
permanent theatre home for our group.
Does anyone have any sources for the various alternatives for theatre
seating?
We are at planning stage now so we just want to examine the possibilities
and then establish a budget for the project. The room is has high ceilings
so could accommodate tiered scaffolding type seats or we could build a
proscenium and make the floor more gently sloped. The floor is hardwood"
The words 'alternative sources' sorta gives it away, and I see no reference
there to configuration.
I would have to agree that the primary motive looks like budget and choice
of supplier....
Of course, I could be wrong.....
Ynot
"Russ Greene" <rrgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdci7t$34e$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
Karl
anymore.
"Russ Greene" <rrgr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdcuvt$4av$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
Roger T.
"Russ Greene"
> Sorry that I wasn't clear enough ..."my bad" is slang for "my mistake".
Hope
> that clears it up for you (although I suspect that you are just winding me
> up...)
I am.
I just hate that stupid expression. :-)
Roger T.
"Mekon" <
> 21
> Vine Street
> Clayfield
> Brisbane
> Australia
> Oceania
> Southern Hemisphere
In that case, I can't help.
However, if you'd been in Canada, I could have put you in touch with a
company that sells excellent reconditioned theatre seats for around
Ca$100/each, installed.
Roger T.
"Ynot"
> Er, I hate to appear picky, but what the guy actually said was
>
> "We are proposing to take over a church building and convert it into a
> permanent theatre home for our group.
> Does anyone have any sources for the various alternatives for theatre
> seating?
Thanks for pointing that out to the masses.
The last sentence was what I was referring to, obviously.
Mekon
OK, let me try and clarify...
I have a space formerly used as a art deco church.
The building is Heritage listed and so, whatever we do has to "touch
lightly" upon the original structure.
It is essentially a 50 foot square with the corners cut off to form an
irregular octogon, there is a small recess at one of the sides where the
pulpit is. The height is about 40 feet.
The floor is polished hardwood and it has brick and plaster walls.
I need to fill with between 100-200 seats, a stage and lighting box. I have
the original (and quite beautiful if a little spartan ) pews.
I would like to see what others have done or might suggest for this
situation. Solutions local to your area might be OK as I could go to a local
supplier and ask if they could build me something similar.
The actors are getting excited about doing stuff in the round, but this
fills me with horror regarding moving the seating and solving the lighting
problems.
My first idea was to build a small (12 feet X 6 feet or so) storage room for
the flats at the back upon which I could have a lighting box. Then build a
thrusting stage with a proscenium made from blacks.
All ideas and suggestions gratefully received.
Mekon
Roger T.
> OK, let me try and clarify...
>
>
> I have a space formerly used as a art deco church.
Try asking for advice here http://www.belfry.bc.ca/
The Belfry Theatre was once an all wooden church.
They may be able to assist, even though they're located in Victoria, BC.
Russ Greene
I blame it on the ungodly heat/humidity we've been experiencing locally
lately and my mispent youth :-)
Cheers,
Russ
"Roger T." <roge...@highspeedplus.com> wrote in message
news:10567807...@news.islandnet.com...
charles.hope
Russ Greene <rrgr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Of what possible consideration is location in determining what type of
> seating configuration? What is the difference if the church is in the US
> or Canada or the UK, Australia, etc?
becasue of different laws regarding places of public entertainment.
Dale Farmer
Mekon wrote:
That's a pretty small space to begin with, so I'd prefer to not permanently lose
any floor space to non-revenue uses. What space is available outside the
main room? Storage and moving stuff around are going to be a hassle.
First thought is to do the black-box thing. Put up a grid over the entire
ceiling, then just use metal chairs and some low platforms to construct
your stage and seating layout to suit the piece you are presenting.
This allows great intimacy, and the greatest flexibility in using the limited
space. This also touches the permanent structure the least, as the only
thing you are building is the lighting grid and the electrical wiring to support
the lights. The grid also gives the lighting designer the greatest flexibility,
as
s/he can put instruments pretty much anywhere.
Specifically for seating, you get the chairs that are commonly used in
hotels. They have provisions for linking them together into rows, and are
not hugely expensive. Buy spare glides ( the feet that keep the chairs from
gouging the floors. ) and keep them in stock to repair the chairs. that way
you don't tear up the floor with them. I don't know what brands are available
in AU, as I'm a USAian, but they are pretty interchangeable the world over.
Check with the large hotels in the area that are undergoing renovations, they
will be looking to sell their old seating to get it out of the way for the
renovation, and will be buying new chairs when they reopen.
Cultivate a good working relationship with your local fire marshall, as
every new layout will need their approval to meet life safety codes. I'd
suggest coming up with half a dozen floor plans for pre approval, that way
one can start with a known good layout, and then tweak it for the specific
show. You may have to educate them on what a black-box theatre is all
about.
Of course, another important question is what kind of shows and clientele
are you anticipating? Obviously not touring Broadway shows, but what
are your anticipated needs. If you are doing cabaret or dinner theatre, that
has it's own additional needs.
--Dale
Duncan Wood
limit. Which unless you're totally subsidised has the same effect.
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:27:41 -0400, Russ Greene <rrgr...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Jack Murdoch
If I ever won a huge amount on the Lotto here in UK, I would want to build
my own theatre. My main specification would be that it could be totally
versatile: used for proscenium arch, thrust stage, and playing in the round.
That would mean a lot of (relatively) easily moved stage and seating
'blocks'. I have heard of this being done in ? Germany to great effect: even
including audience boxes!
It gave me an idea for your space, which isn't huge. I would think of
getting a local metal-working company to build 6 raked seating banks, with
lockable wheels, say 3 rows deep, 2 of which could be placed on each of 3
sides of your space. These would have 'rails' to attach seats and seat backs
to: like a flight of steps, so you don't need legs for the seats.
For 'pros arch' performances, you could rig curtains to form the arch, angle
the seating at the sides, using only 1 of the banks at the back, and fill
the remaining space with stackable seats. For 'thrust' and 'in the round'
the seating format would be square with stackable seating placed as
appropriate. Rostra could be built to make up various permutations of sizes
for the raised stage area, which could also be stacked to form a raked
seating area for the fourth side when performing in the round.
One of the biggest considerations would be how you would do scene changes
when required: you might even be able to fly cloths with the height you've
got.
You could probably think of creating a scaffolding grid suspended from the
ceiling to allow you to rig lighting almost anywhere, without having to
interfere with the structure of the building.
You have plenty of height, so the lighting and sound boxes could be on a
gallery above the seating at the end opposite the 'pros arch'.
All this ignores any costing, which will probably be a prime consideration
for you, and is only a thumbnail sketch of my ideas. I would also want to
consult an acoustic engineer before I did anything.
You don't say what your involvement is with theatre groups: if you are doing
it for your own club or group, I would canvass other local groups to see if
they would use it when you're not, which might give you some ideas of
potential income stream, which may then affect how much you may be able to
spend at the outset.
This could turn into a huge undertaking, involving many of the topics
discussed in this forum, so I would advise travelling to as many theatres as
you possibly can to get a 'feel' for what works and what doesn't and make a
'wish list' in the process.
Hope this is of some use: let us know how you get on. Good luck.
Jack.
"Mekon" <blank...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZkqKa.82$Py2....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Mekon
"
Thanks Jack,
Some good ideas there. Funnily enough, money isn't a great concern at this
stage. At least not for the setting up. My major concern is raising the
funds to buy the building, once that is done I can apply for grants from
various sources to help us fit it out.
Here in Queensland Australia, there is legislation which requires casinos
and poker machine companies to donate a portion of their vast earnings to
community purposes, which is where we will be going to fit this place out
once we have either a long term lease or funds to buy it in hand.
What do you think about making the proscenium from blacks? Any disadvantages
there?
Mekon
sarah thiboutot
<blank...@hotmail.com> wrote:
A couple of disadvantages, although I would consider a drapery pros to be
perfectly feasible:
- The drapes, unless heavily weighted/stretched, will move whenever a
stagehand or actor in the wings gets too close to them, which can be a
distraction. (solution: use the heaviest drape fabric available, weight
the bottom edge with a chain or stretch it with a pipe, and designate a
"travel lane" at the appropriate distance)
- A "hard" pros will often have doors cut into it for "in 1" scenes, and
can have small scenery pieces mounted to it. Of course, the whole idea
behind the flexible space is that if you needed these devices, you would
build scenery to accomodate.
- The drapes would need to be cleaned/re-fire treated periodically, more
often if they are left hanging for long periods of time. (If any
construction is going to be done in the space, you might want to consider
taking the drapes down to keep them clean) Of course, this is true for
all soft goods.
Clive Mitchell
<jackvb...@v21.me.uk> writes
>If I ever won a huge amount on the Lotto here in UK, I would want to build
>my own theatre.
Congratulations. That's the fastest way to blow a lottery win yet. :)
--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com
Frank Wood
>my own theatre. My main specification would be that it could be totally
>versatile: used for proscenium arch, thrust stage, and playing in the round.
>That would mean a lot of (relatively) easily moved stage and seating
>'blocks'. I have heard of this being done in ? Germany to great effect: even
>including audience boxes!
I have read what you have said. you want to build a techie's dream. Without the
high quality productions to stsge, it's a hollow dream.
Frank Wood
Frank...@aol.com
Charles R. Kaiser
> I have read what you have said. you want to build a techie's dream. Without the
> high quality productions to stsge, it's a hollow dream.
"If you build it, they will come."
--
Charles R. Kaiser HOKC - http://www.godtar.com
"There's two dates in time that they'll carve on your stone
And everyone knows what they mean. What's more important
Is the time that is known in that little dash in between"
Roger T.
"Charles R. Kaiser" <cka...@aci.on.ca> wrote in message
news:3F00B8CC...@aci.on.ca...
> Frank Wood wrote:
>
> > I have read what you have said. you want to build a techie's dream.
Without the
> > high quality productions to stsge, it's a hollow dream.
>
> "If you build it, they will come."
They didn't in Vancouver BC. :-)
Frank Wood
>the
>> high quality productions to stsge, it's a hollow dream.
>
>"If you build it, they will come."
I wish you were right.
Frank Wood
Frank...@aol.com
Christopher Jahn
I worked in a conveterted movie theatre that had a proscenium
constructed of flats. There were several advantages:
- cheap. Constructed inhouse, covered in fire retardent
duvetyne. If you use canvas or muslin, custom paint jobs are
very practical.
- Flexible: we could fold the peices to adjust the width of the
prosc. Also easy to add/remove decorative elements.
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( http://home.attbi.com/~xjahn
%QUOTE
Christopher Jahn
>
> "Charles R. Kaiser" <cka...@aci.on.ca> wrote in message
> news:3F00B8CC...@aci.on.ca...
>> Frank Wood wrote:
>>
>> > I have read what you have said. you want to build a
>> > techie's dream.
>> > Without the high quality productions to stsge, it's a
>> > hollow dream.
>>
>> "If you build it, they will come."
>
> They didn't in Vancouver BC. :-)
>
>
Well, who'd want to freeze their ass off in Vancouver, when they
could be not attending theatre in Miami?
;-)
Jack Murdoch
"sarah thiboutot" <sar...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:sarah_t-3006...@user-2ive627.dialup.mindspring.com...
All sounds good, Sarah. I think that audiences are increasingly
understanding of this type of approach, and will quickly come to accept any
slight movement of the 'pros' - which would probably be a lot less than any
backcloth you use in full view and light! Hang them on hemp bars and you can
rig and strike in minutes. A little trick I noticed on a cruise ship some
time ago was that the onstage edges of the pros verticals were actually
fabric covered speaker towers. Neat way to hide what can be an eyesore and
probably give better sound to the audience. If you can brace them securely,
these would give a 'hard' edge to the pros.
As an aside, and at the risk of stirring up a hornets nest, I'm always a
little sceptical about the fuss and bother that goes with the lowering of
the safety curtain, (or 'iron') in UK pros arch venues. This is a hang-back
to the days when stages were lit by naked gas-flame jets, and was certainly
justified then, but with today's materials, fire precautions and safety
procedures it seems an anachronism (I had to look that up to check!). Put
the same audience in a concert venue, or in the round, with exactly the same
amount of equipment, and suddenly it's not required. If a fire does start
backstage, which in many Victorian theatres can be an absolute rabbit warren
of tiny passages, why cut off one of the easiest escape routes for those
backstage?
Anyway, keep us posted.
Jack.
Ynot
"Clive Mitchell" <cl...@emanator.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:srXcVVAPBKA$Ew...@emanator.demon.co.uk...
> In article <3eff...@news.greennet.net>, Jack Murdoch
> <jackvb...@v21.me.uk> writes
> >If I ever won a huge amount on the Lotto here in UK, I would want to
build
> >my own theatre.
>
> Congratulations. That's the fastest way to blow a lottery win yet. :)
>
> --
(I'm sure MANY amateurs out there have had just the same thoughts!)
The trick would be to provide the first (ok pretty big) and initial
investment to the project. After all, there's a certain tax break for
donations to worthy causes from capital gains tax etc. That investment would
be used to breed grant aid from other funding organisations and when the
balance is sufficient, then the project goes to the Lottery board saying
"Here's my 25% (or whatever) - can I have the rest!"
In theory that would work, and yes - it's a theory I'd LOVE to test had I
but the simple Lotto win under my own belt!!
8-))))
Ynot
Ynot
>
> > I have read what you have said. you want to build a techie's dream.
Without the
> > high quality productions to stsge, it's a hollow dream.
>
> "If you build it, they will come."
>
>
Ynot
Ynot
"Frank Wood" <frank...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030630191659...@mb-m12.aol.com...
> >> I have read what you have said. you want to build a techie's dream.
Without
> >the
> >> high quality productions to stsge, it's a hollow dream.
> >
> >"If you build it, they will come."
>
> I wish you were right.
>
>
re-build/re-site they most certainly would come to the new theatre. In our
case we'd LOVE to get a new site - we have been increasing our output
rapidly over the past 3 years, and a new theatre with bigger stage, slightly
bigger audience capacity would not only better serve those already with us,
but we could accommodate several other large groups performing elsewhere in
the borough who are not happy with their current venue.
Ynot
Peter
> >> I have read what you have said. you want to build a techie's dream. Without
> >the
> >> high quality productions to stsge, it's a hollow dream.
> >
> >"If you build it, they will come."
>
> I wish you were right.
>
They will come but there are some caveats
1) you have to give them something worth coming to
2) you have to have realistic expectations
3) you have to be patient
We are about to wrap up our 3rd year of performances. We a community based
amateur group that doesn't do the typical am-dram fare so with a few execptions
there is not the kind of name recognition you have when you do lots of "Harvy",
"You Can't Take It with You" and "Christmas Carols". On average, comedies do
better than dramas but our mission statement and our taste in plays keeps the
season balanced.
Each year total attendance and donations from patrons have increased. In the
first year, attendance at "serious plays" was about 300 and comedies almost twice
that. This year, the serious plays are averaging a bit over 350 and we have many
more regulars who call up to make reservations without knowing much if anything
about the play. They are starting to trust us that it will be well done and worth
seeing. This doesn't seem like much but if you grow your audience and advanced
bookings +/-10% a year you will be filling houses in time!
If you want to get some idea of what we are about, go to
http://www.no-strings.org. The Past Productions page has links to all the
productions with some pictures and reviews.
Peter
Dale Farmer
Jack Murdoch wrote:
>
> As an aside, and at the risk of stirring up a hornets nest, I'm always a
> little sceptical about the fuss and bother that goes with the lowering of
> the safety curtain, (or 'iron') in UK pros arch venues. This is a hang-back
> to the days when stages were lit by naked gas-flame jets, and was certainly
> justified then, but with today's materials, fire precautions and safety
> procedures it seems an anachronism (I had to look that up to check!). Put
> the same audience in a concert venue, or in the round, with exactly the same
> amount of equipment, and suddenly it's not required. If a fire does start
> backstage, which in many Victorian theatres can be an absolute rabbit warren
> of tiny passages, why cut off one of the easiest escape routes for those
> backstage?
>
> Anyway, keep us posted.
>
> Jack.
The UK passed into law some time ago, ( I forget when. ) that the fire curtain
had to be closed and opened in view of the audience once per show to
demonstrate that it was functional. This was, IIRC, in response to a theatre
fire where the safety curtain came down and then jammed partway closed.
Fire subsequently did much damage and loss of life. Politicians, in response
to the perceived "NEED TO DO SOMETHING!", went and passed the law.
Having seen the sad shape that some of the fire curtains I've seen here in
the US, and the near hysterical fear of touching anything near them in case of
accidentally closing them on some manager's minds, I'm not so sure that the
UK law is such a bad thing.
It means that in the UK, the set designer really can't put any setpieces
along
the fire curtain line, where I've seen too many setpeices in the US placed in
the way of the fire curtain. When I've mentioned this safety hazard to folks
in authority, it was usually ignored, except for the time that I was invited to
leave that call before the job was done, for making trouble for the set
designer about the fire curtain. Being as I've been a firefighter, I fear I
take
fire safety a bit more seriously than many in theatre when it time to actually
have to spend money or confront a name designer when needful. *sighs*
--Dale
Christopher Jahn
I remember talking to the master carpenter at a theatre across
town about a set at their space that crossed the curtain line -
they built break-way sections that allowed the fire curtain to
operate properly. But it was a PITA.
Our theatre is not required to have a fire curtain, so we
regularly break proscenium.
Dale Farmer
Christopher Jahn wrote:
Since the new code from NFPA specifies that the fire curtains
also close on prolonged power failures, that we will gradually see
the fear of closing the fire curtains lessen. As theatre staffers will
come in after a power failure and see that the curtain has dropped,
and have to go pull it up and reset the triggers. I think part of the
fear is that older fire curtains were mostly made of asbestos, and
those are gradually being replaced with non-asbestos curtains.
There is also alternatives to the physical curtain in the fire
safety
codes. One can have a water curtain, or if the backstage fire
barriers meet certain criteria, and the size of the house is not too
large, not have one at all. This is all complicated by the spotty
adoption of the NFPA codes by local authorities.
--Dale
Duncan Wood
It does have the advantage over here that the fire brigade are a lot more
relaxed about what you do pstage of the safety curtain.
Frank Wood
>>> that the fire curtain had to be closed and opened in view
>>> of the audience once per show to demonstrate that it was
>>> functional.
This is substantially true, except that it wasn't law, but simply the rules of
the regulatory authority Most London thgeatres still comply
.
Frank Wood
Frank...@aol.com
dmi...@spamblock.demon.co.uk
> I remember talking to the master carpenter at a theatre across
> town about a set at their space that crossed the curtain line -
> they built break-way sections that allowed the fire curtain to
> operate properly. But it was a PITA.
This is especially good as IIRC the fire curtain (at least in UK practice)
does not need to seal at the bottom to be effective as long as the smoke
vents open correctly. In fact in larger theatres it is not uncommon to
see vents in the sides of the proc. arch to reduce the differential
pressure across the curtain in the event of a backstage fire.
It is important that these vents take their air from the audiatorium
and not from outside to ensure that flow is in the correct direction.
The forces on a large iron when there is a big fire behind it and a
tall fly tower above to act as a stack can be spectacular.....
The idea is for the fire (in combination with the vents in the roof
of the fly tower) to create a region of low pressure behind the
curtain thus keeping smoke out of the audiotorium. That it prevents
the audience from seeing the fire is a side benefit compared to
keeping the smoke under control.
Ref: The ABTT/DSA "Model technical standards for places of entertainment".
Of course convincing the licensing officer of this fact can be
'interesting'.......
Regards, Dan.
--
** The email address *IS* valid, do NOT remove the spamblock
And on the evening of the first day the lord said...........
.... LX 1, GO!; and there was light.
Frank Wood
>tall fly tower above to act as a stack can be spectacular.....
Indeed they can! There was a quite minor fire on stage in Newcastle, I
remember. Properly, they dropped the iron. Then, there was a dust explosion.
This put a 2' bubble into the iron.
Frank Wood
Frank...@aol.com