Wonderful Town Lyric referencing Betty Hutton lyric?
MaryLyon
I was listening to the Village Vortex song today (can't recall the
title - but it's the one where Ruth is barking for the club). The part
where the song goes into all the slang was really amusing me - and I
noticed they used the words "jackson" and "solid," two slang words
used often in Betty Hutton's "Murder, He Says."
I gather that "jackson" and "solid" were fairly common slang at the
time, I guess, at least among the zoot suit set...but do you think
either of these songs is directly referencing the other as something
of an in-joke? I am not sure which song was written first.
Can you name any other songs that use these words as "hep" slang?
Cheers!
Amy :)
Robert Bouton
The song from Wonderful Town is called "Swing" and in it, Ruth is
forced to use some of the slang heard in New York at the time the show
is set, i.e., the 30's.
The wonderful song by Frank Loesser and Jimmy McHugh, "Murder, He
Says" - I often suggest dames put it in their audition books - was
written more than a decade earlier. And makes fun of contemporary
slang.
I found a Time Magazine item from 1941, about slang, using Solid,
Jackson as its title.
Comden & Green (with Bernstein) were writing a show about 1930's New
York, so, naturally, the colloquialisms of the time were a subject.
The song doesn't reference Murder He Says but it bares more than a few
similarities to the Fats Waller (and, later, Andrews Sisters) hit,
Hold Tight. A couple of lines from different parts of that one:
"When I come home from work at night, I get my favorite dish - fish!"
"Hold tight, hold tight...I want some seafood mamma!"
I leave it to you to decipher what Fats was singing about...
>
> I was listening to the Village Vortex song today (can't recall the
> title - but it's the one where Ruth is barking for the club). The part
> where the song goes into all the slang was really amusing me - and I
> noticed they used the words "jackson" and "solid," two slang words
> used often in Betty Hutton's "Murder, He Says."
>
> I gather that "jackson" and "solid" were fairly common slang at the
> time...but do you think
David Levy
> The song doesn't reference Murder He Says but it bares more than a few
> similarities to the Fats Waller (and, later, Andrews Sisters) hit,
> Hold Tight. A couple of lines from different parts of that one:
>
> "When I come home from work at night, I get my favorite dish - fish!"
> "Hold tight, hold tight...I want some seafood mamma!"
>
> I leave it to you to decipher what Fats was singing about...
Forget Fats, what do you think the Andrews Sisters thought they were
singing about?!?!
Steve Newport
From: dl...@post.harvard.edu (David Levy) <<<The song doesn't
reference Murder He Says but it bares more than a few similarities to
the Fats Waller (and, later, Andrews Sisters) hit, Hold Tight. A
couple of lines from different parts of that one:
"When I come home from work at night, I get my favorite dish - fish!"
"Hold tight, hold tight...I want some seafood mamma!" I leave it to you
to decipher what Fats was singing about...>>>
singing about?!?!
Did they need an explanation like Mary Martin did with "My Heart Belongs
to Daddy?"
Numbnuts
<98edee9a-4d15-4eca...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
MaryLyon <Mary...@aol.com> wrote:
Tons of stuff from the late 30s and 40's!
John Lee Hooker has a song SOLID SENDER (don't know the date, tho) -
"You're the solid sender, babe..."
-----
"A Conversation While Dancing" (1944) written by Johnny Mercer and Paul
Weston, and sung by Mercer and Jo Stafford. "You're a solid sender, and
the band is a real ear-bender." "But why are we talking this shop? Mop!
Mop!"
-------
Roy Milton had a band in 1933 called the Solid Senders, so the term has
been around at least since then.
ElBob-O
>>were singing about?!?!
> Did they need an explanation like Mary Martin did with "My Heart Belongs
> to Daddy?"
I think she had a clue: I was listening to one of her early recordings
recently and made note of her oddly-placed choice of caesura in the
line "I just adore his ass -- king for more..."
It was a little disturbing in later years when she recorded that duet
Bring Out Those Old Records and her son Larry sang "...you 'turned on'
every laddie / With My Heart Belongs to Daddy" but approving wasn't
the point of her statement, just understanding.
MaryLyon
> Amy:
> The song from Wonderful Town is called "Swing" and in it, Ruth is
> forced to use some of the slang heard in New York at the time the show
> is set, i.e., the 30's.
>
> The wonderful song by Frank Loesser and Jimmy McHugh, "Murder, He
> Says" - I often suggest dames put it in their audition books - was
> written more than a decade earlier. And makes fun of contemporary
> slang.
>
> I found a Time Magazine item from 1941, about slang, using Solid,
> Jackson as its title.
>
> Comden & Green (with Bernstein) were writing a show about 1930's New
> York, so, naturally, the colloquialisms of the time were a subject.
> The song doesn't reference Murder He Says but it bares more than a few
> similarities to the Fats Waller (and, later, Andrews Sisters) hit,
> Hold Tight. A couple of lines from different parts of that one:
>
> "When I come home from work at night, I get my favorite dish - fish!"
> "Hold tight, hold tight...I want some seafood mamma!"
>
> I leave it to you to decipher what Fats was singing about...
Greetings:
So, do you think Comden and Green were intentionally referencing the
Waller song with this line? Funny how it sounds so dirty in Waller's
song, but so innocent (because, I guess, Ruth doesn't "get it") in
"Swing..."
Cheers!
Amy :)
Robert Bouton
intentionally referencing the
> Waller song with this line? Funny how it sounds so dirty in Waller's
> song, but so innocent (because, I guess, Ruth doesn't "get it") in
> "Swing..."
One of my favorite pastimes is to muse on what writers might have been
thinking while writing a song (sometimes this aids interpretation). I
only met one of those writers.
C & G lived through the 30's, and could look back and laugh at all the
New York slang they'd hear. Vernacular appears in many forms - in
overheard conversations, in song lyrics, in some popular literature.
I imagine they thought about Ruth Sherwood, a would-be writer who's
new to New York. She's never heard or read the argot she's now forced
to shout to strangers. The joke, it seems to me, has to do with how
unnatural these terms sound coming out of her mouth. It is NOT about
Ruth not understanding sexual connotations (although this is why we
find the Andrews Sisters' "Hold Tight" so risible).
So, I don't think "Swing" references "Hold Tight" as "Hold Tight" is
only one of a thousand examples of the slang of the period.
David Levy
> So, I don't think "Swing" references "Hold Tight" as "Hold Tight" is
> only one of a thousand examples of the slang of the period.
I hear what you're saying, but the "favorite dish - fish" line seems
like a dead giveaway that within their general reference to slang of
the time, they're also specifically referring to a song that was a pop-
cultural touchstone of that slang.
robert armstrong
>>as "Hold Tight" is only one of a thousand examples
>>of the slang of the period.
>I hear what you're saying, but the "favorite dish
>- fish" line seems like a dead giveaway that within
>their general reference to slang of the time, they're
>also specifically referring to a song that was a pop-
>cultural touchstone of that slang.
It did occur to me that the line "Was it red? no no no" alludes to the
song A Tisket, A Tasket, although latter was written and recorded in
'38, three years after the musical is set. I'll let that slide.
Ella was fifteen.
Bob A
"Aside from that, Mrs. Kennedy, how did you enjoy the motorcade?"
Vatican Lokey
Zora Neale Hurston was using much of this slang in her works in the
early 1930's as Black slang in common parlance. For example, solid
was the euphemism for perfect, most likely taken from the expression
"solid as a dollar" which goes back to the turn of the 20th century.
Gut bucket refers to a low dive and the music played within. Same
with barrelhouse, the Northern version.
I dream't I dwelt in marble halls is a direct reference to the
libretto for the opera The Bohemian Girl--an inside joke with Comden,
Green, and Bernstein.
"green" is the color of my true love's hair is a play on the
Applachian folk song "Black is the color of my true love's hair;"
possibly a nod to Bernstein's friendship with Aaron Copland and his
"Appalachian Spring."
Furiyake-sake: Furiyake is an Asian seasoning that consists of sesame
seeds, dried fish, and seaweed. Sake is, of course rice wine. Most
likely refers to the selections at any of the Asian restaurants in New
York at the time. This would jibe with the other fish references in
the song.
Aside from the Ol Man Moze Biblical references and the obvious Tarzan
references, most of the rest of the nonsense lyrics would have
mimicked the works of Fats Waller and Cab Calloway (who was definitely
working in the African-American jazz clubs in New York in the early
1930's)
Hope this helps,
Vatican