Threepenny opera
malesh
Threepenny opera (Weill- Brecht).
I don't understand all the rhymes, the time of my version is too fast, I
don't speak english so well!
Is it the right place? If not excuse me the OT
Thanks
Alessandra
KeLL
wrote:
:Hi! I'm italian, I'm looking for the english lirycs of Army song, from
Alessandra:
and just for you, from memory:
Johnny joined up
and Jimmy was there
and George had a Seargent's rating
Don't use your right name
the Army don't care
and the life is so fascinating
let's all go barmy,
live off the Army
see the world we never saw
If we get feeling down
we wander into town
and if the population
should greet us with indignation
we chop them to bits because
we like our hamburger raw*
Johnny got drunkon a gallon of gin
and Jimmy did not drink tea
and George replied to aright to the chin
for the army is just a pink tea
let's all go barmy,
live off the Army
see the world we never saw
If we get feeling down
we wander into town
and if the population
should greet us with indignation
we chop them to bits because
we like our hamburger raw
Johnny is missing
Jimmy is dead
and George is went crazy shooting
<missing the rest>
let's all go barmy,
live off the Army
see the world we never saw
If we get feeling down
we wander into town
and if the population
should greet us with indignation
we chop them to bits because
we like our hamburger raw
Alternate lyric:
if it shouold rain some night
and we should chance to sight
pallid or swarthy faces
of uncongial races
we chop them to bits because
we like our hamburger raw
:
:
:
:PS: The music/lyrics ARE available in English through
WARNER BROS. PUBLICATIONS
15800 W. 46TH AVE
MIAMI, FLORIDA, 33014
USA
The cost is US12.95. Not sure what the exchange rate is tho.
--
KellyL, AFTRA/Actor/Director
"I think if there is a God it's very important
that he has a sense of humour - otherwise you
are in for a very miserable afterlife." Rory Bremner
John Baxindine
This is the right place. Here it is. Enjoy.
John
----------------
"ARMY SONG"
(tr. Marc Blitzstein)
Johnny joined up and Jimmy was there
And George got a sergeant's rating.
Don't give your right name, the army don't care -
And the life is so fascinating.
Let's all go barmy,
Live off the army,
See the world we never saw!
If we get feeling down
We wander into town
And if the population
Should greet us with indignation,
We chop 'em to bits, because we like our hamburgers raw!
Johnny got drunk on a gallon of gin
And Jimmy did not drink tea.
And George replied with a right to the chin,
For the army is just a pink tea.
Let's all go barmy,
Live off the army,
See the world we never saw!
If we get feeling down
We wander into town
And if the population
Should greet us with indignation,
We chop 'em to bits, because we like our hamburgers raw!
Johnny is missing, Jimmy is dead
And George went crazy shooting.
But blood is blood and red is red
And the army is still recruiting.
Let's all go barmy,
Live off the army,
See the world we never saw!
If we get feeling down
We wander into town
And if the population
Should greet us with indignation,
We chop 'em to bits, because we like our hamburgers raw!
malesh
But is this the official english version? Cause it isn't the literal
translation from deutch or italian, can you tell me more?
(I listen the version from the cd "Lost in the stars", tribute to Kurt Weill
( The Fowler Brothers with Stanard Ridgway) and the lyrics are totally
different, the title is different too, "The Cannon song" but the
translation is more exact) :-)))
ciao, grazie ed a presto!
Alessandra
Dan Sternberg
news:9sp1ci$14mmu1$1...@ID-61949.news.dfncis.de...
> Johnny is missing
> Jimmy is dead
(Alternatively, George was shot for looting)
But blood is blood and red is bloody red
And the army goes on ahead recruiting.
-Dan
malesh
>George was shot for looting
>But blood is blood and red is bloody red
>And the army goes on ahead recruiting.
>
>-Dan
This is the literal translation, thanks a lot Dan!
The rest is tragically different. :((
Ciao
Alessandra
John Baxindine
> Thanks a lot!
> But is this the official english version? Cause it isn't the literal
> translation from deutch or italian, can you tell me more?
The lyric I posted is from the most commonly performed English version
of the show. The adaptation is by Marc Blitzstein. It is not a
direct translation, and therefore does not match the German exactly.
Since you used the title "Army Song," I assumed you were listening to
the Blitzstein version. Most other versions use the title "Cannon
Song." (For the record, the German "Kanonenlied" can be translated
either as "Cannon Song" or "Gun Song.")
I have copies of three other translations of the song, all of them
closer to the letter of the German than Blitzstein's. Here are the
refrains from each:
ERIC BENTLEY: (title: "The Song of the Heavy Cannon")
What soldiers live on
Is heavy cannon
From the Cape to Cutch Behar.
If it should rain one night
And they should chance to sight
Pallid or swarthy faces
Of uncongenial races
They'll maybe chop them up to make some beefsteak tartare.
RALPH MANHEIM/JOHN WILLETT: ("The Cannon Song")
The troops live under
The cannon's thunder
From the Cape to Cooch Behar.
Moving from place to place
When they come face to face
With a different breed of fellow
Whose skin is black or yellow
They quick as winking chop him into beefsteak tartare.
MICHAEL FEINGOLD: ("The Cannon Song")
A soldier marries
The gun he carries
From the Cape to Mandalay
If it's a rainy night
And we should have to fight
Men of exotic races
With black or yellow faces
I betcha we get steak tartare for breakfast next day!
Hope this helps.
John
Dan Sternberg
> This is the literal translation, thanks a lot Dan!
> The rest is tragically different. :((
Actually, all the lyrics quoted to you come from different versions of a
translation by Mark Blitzstein. The lyrics don't appear the same way twice
(unless you listen in German). Blitzstein was responsible for the version
seen on Broadway with Lotte Lenya. The CD of this was cut and lyrics changed
(hence what you see here).
Lyrics truer to the original are featured in the movie "Mack the Knife"
starring Raul Julia (but are different there) as well as in the broadcast
with Sammy Davis Jr as the street singer (different again).
On to other lyrics:
The lyrics closest to the German come from a translation by Manheim and
Willett. This can be obtained through any of the amazon .com's (read .de,
.co.uk, etc.). These are drastically different from the Blitzstein versions.
A third translation can be found on the Donmar recording. They were updated
and slightly modernized and are quite interesting to listen to as well.
Lastly, we have lyrics sung by Sting in New York. No recording of this
exists, but the lyrics can be found on the double-CD so-called "complete"
recording of The Threepenny Opera in German which also features narrative
written by Brecht for a concert version.
I hope this helps.
-Dan
malesh
>Hope this helps.
>
>John
>I hope this helps.
>
>-Dan
eccome!!
I mean very much, now I know that is better I begin to listen more
translations as possible....so I can choose, well!!
At the moment I prefer the approach of RALPH MANHEIM/JOHN WILLETT: ("The
Cannon Song")
Have you got the complete version, John?
Thanks to all
Alessandra
John Baxindine
> At the moment I prefer the approach of RALPH MANHEIM/JOHN WILLETT: ("The
> Cannon Song")
> Have you got the complete version, John?
Here it is. Enjoy.
John
----------------------
"CANNON SONG" (tr. Manheim/Willett)
John was all present and Jim was all there
And Georgie was up for promotion.
Not that the army gave a bugger who they were
When confronting some heathen commotion.
The troops live under
The cannon's thunder
From the Cape to Cooch Behar.
Moving from place to place
When they come face to face
With a different breed of fellow
Whose skin is black or yellow
They quick as winking chop him into beefsteak tartare.
Johnny found his whisky too warm
And Jim found the weather too balmy,
But Georgie took them both by the arm
And said, "Never let down the army."
The troops live under
The cannon's thunder
From the Cape to Cooch Behar.
Moving from place to place
When they come face to face
With a different breed of fellow
Whose skin is black or yellow
They quick as winking chop him into beefsteak tartare.
John is a write-off and Jimmy is dead
And they shot poor old Georgie for looting
But young men's blood goes on being red
And the army goes on recruiting.
malesh
>
>John
music...lyrics...This is the better way to learn languages. In this version
there are words I've never heard before. Well...
Thanks a lot
(Molte grazie)
Alessandra
Steve or Rhonda
starring Raul Julia (but are different there) as well as in the
broadcast with Sammy Davis Jr as the street singer (different again).>>
Is there a Davis BROADCAST apart from the Jurgens-Kneff film?
John Baxindine
> music...lyrics...This is the better way to learn languages.
Absolutely - it's great for the vocabulary.
> Thanks a lot
> (Molte grazie)
You're very welcome.
John
John Baxindine
> "malesh" <mal...@ctonline.it> wrote in message
> news:9ss23t$glk$1...@serv1.iunet.it...
> > This is the literal translation, thanks a lot Dan!
> > The rest is tragically different. :((
>
> Actually, all the lyrics quoted to you come from different versions of a
> translation by Mark Blitzstein. The lyrics don't appear the same way twice
> (unless you listen in German). Blitzstein was responsible for the version
> seen on Broadway with Lotte Lenya. The CD of this was cut and lyrics changed
> (hence what you see here).
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the lyric of this
song changed for the album. (The "Moritat" and "Tango Ballad," on the
other hand, both changed drastically.) I'd check myself, but my copy
of the album seems to have vanished.
For the record, the Blitzstein passages that I provided came directly
from the unexpurgated script. (Also, the line about "uncongenial
races" is from the Bentley translation.)
> Lyrics truer to the original are featured in the movie "Mack the Knife"
> starring Raul Julia (but are different there) as well as in the broadcast
> with Sammy Davis Jr as the street singer (different again).
MACK THE KNIFE uses a version of the Blitzstein lyrics reworked by
director Menahem Golan. It also features Broadway-ized arrangements,
and is essentially a dreadful film.
> On to other lyrics:
> The lyrics closest to the German come from a translation by Manheim and
> Willett. This can be obtained through any of the amazon .com's (read .de,
> .co.uk, etc.). These are drastically different from the Blitzstein versions.
True. I find the Manheim/Willett version wooden, particularly in the
songs; however, for a student who wants to study the work, it's
probably the best choice. For performance, Blitzstein is better.
> Lastly, we have lyrics sung by Sting in New York. No recording of this
> exists, but the lyrics can be found on the double-CD so-called "complete"
> recording of The Threepenny Opera in German which also features narrative
> written by Brecht for a concert version.
That translation is by Michael Feingold, who also wrote the celebrated
adaptation of HAPPY END.
John
Steve + or - Rhonda
Boy is it ever. And the lyrics drove me crazy. I'd had the off-Broadway
recording since I was a teenager, saw Julia's Broadway version, and
later played Mack in THAT version regionally. And what a wasted film
cast: Julia Migenes, Richard Harris, Julie Walters, and Clive Revill!
***********************
"Who is Fat Lefty?"
Peter
> Mack the Knife starring Raul Julia
> uses a version of the Blitzstein lyrics reworked by director Menahem
> Golan and is essentially a dreadful film.>>
I have never seen the 3PO film that you refer to, but I do have the
soundtrack CD.
I wonder what is so dreadful about the film, since I believe that it is
rather difficult to ruin this superb musical?
Of course all "true" 3PO lovers should definitely see the "original" 3PO
film with Lotte Lenja (that's how she spelled her name at that time).
Steve & Rhonda
You have to see it. I also bought the soundtrack of the movie first and
while I was bothered by the cut and paste lyrics from many sources, I
still wanted to see the film. It's just a choppy mess. I saw the Lenja
film in a course in college (in the early 70's) and remember liking it a
lot.
JWBOY5439
>Of course all "true" 3PO lovers should definitely see the "original" 3PO
>film with Lotte Lenja (that's how she spelled her name at that time).
>
Brecht took great issue with this version because of the attempts made to
render the songs in a smoother, more movie-musical style, whereas his concept
for the show was that the songs interrupt the action in an obvious,
self-parodying way. I'd rather think of it as a Kurt Weill musical, but there
definitely is a lapse in intent when Mack and Polly sing their love duet
recitative: "You see the moon over Dark (Dock?) Street?" etc. is a callback to
the prescient remarks made by Polly's mom and dad in the Instead-of Song,
showing perhaps that the parents knew something after all, and yet the film,
which otherwise shows a respectful cynicism toward the lovers' match, goes
astray for this moment to pretend that we're watching a naturalistic treatment
of human relationships. There are other changes of this kind that Brecht must
have disliked, but for the most part they make for an entertaining film, and an
interesting study of film work for this period in Europe.
This was a "lost film" for several decades, thanks to the Nazis' efforts to
suppress and in this case destroy "degenerate" art. Even now there are only a
few prints in circulation, but see it in a theatre if you can. My video loses a
lot of background detail because of cropping and latitude problems. You want to
read all those English-language legends posted on the walls (German audiences
loved English references, especially puns).
Stephen Farrow
>
> Steve + or - Rhonda wrote:
>
> > Mack the Knife starring Raul Julia
> > uses a version of the Blitzstein lyrics reworked by director Menahem
> > Golan and is essentially a dreadful film.>>
>
> I have never seen the 3PO film that you refer to, but I do have the
> soundtrack CD.
>
> I wonder what is so dreadful about the film, since I believe that it is
> rather difficult to ruin this superb musical?
On the contrary, it's rather easy. God knows the music department at the
University of Toronto managed it a couple of years ago, simply by taking
the 'opera' part of the title rather too seriously. There was a stunning
performance from a young singer called Katerina Tchoubar in the role of
Lucy; the rest of it was horribly, horribly bland (which with this
material is no mean achievement). I'd have loved to see the cast and
production team attempt something like "Die Fledermaus", but their
"Threepenny Opera" was seriously misguided.
Stephen
--
"First of all, you're going to need a live chicken and a working
knowledge of Latin..."
John Baxindine
> >Of course all "true" 3PO lovers should definitely see the "original" 3PO
> >film with Lotte Lenja (that's how she spelled her name at that time).
> Brecht took great issue with this version because of the attempts made to
> render the songs in a smoother, more movie-musical style, whereas his concept
> for the show was that the songs interrupt the action in an obvious,
> self-parodying way.
That wasn't the only reason he took exception to it - or, in fact, the
main reason. The main reason was that the film company ripped the
screenplay away from him, and he sued them. (Weill did too, for
entirely different reasons.) As I recall, Brecht lost his lawsuit and
bad-mouthed the film for the rest of his life.
The odd thing is that the film actually adheres quite closely to
Brecht's treatment.
John
Melanie Lynch
was, in the Romas Spring of Mrs. Stone.
Melanie
Biff McKeldin
Rhonda says...
I've been told that when reading a novel in translation, the translation becomes
definitive for the reader; and that most times re-reading the novel in a
different translation is a disappointment. Perhaps the same is true for plays
in performance. I discovered THE THREEPENNY OPERA via the Raul Julia cast album
and I've never been able to understand why the Willet/Mannheim translation is
supposedly inferior to the Blitzstein. For me, the Willet/Mannheim translation
*is* THREEPENNY, while Blitzstein's version seems a pale imitation. The
celebrated "singability" of Blitzstein's adaptation escapes me (the performances
on the famous cast album do not however, and I've come to enjoy the recording
quite a lot thanks to Jo Sullivan, Bea Arthur and especially Lotte Lenya).
Biff
Peter
> I discovered THE THREEPENNY OPERA via the Raul Julia cast album and I've never
> been able to understand why the Willet/Mannheim translation is supposedly inferior
> to the Blitzstein. For me, the Willet/Mannheim translation *is* THREEPENNY, while
> Blitzstein's version seems a pale imitation.
I like the Blitzstein translation better, because in my opinion it projects the
"spirit" of the original German text better. (Please note that German is my mother
tongue)
I would be interested in comments regarding 3PO translations from other bilingual
respondents.
KeLL
"Dan Sternberg" <danny_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:"malesh" <mal...@ctonline.it> wrote in message
This must be the Columbia Masterworks (box set) it's in German and has
the only recording of the Ballad of Sexual Dependancy (Lotte Lenya,
according to the liner notes say that she had everyone leave while she
recorded it), an incredible recording.
It's really sad, that Brecht's casting notes that indicat that a
non-singer play Macheath has been so soundly ignored.
:
:I hope this helps.
:
:-Dan
:
:
Dan Sternberg
news:cEgK7.53494$S4.50...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> This must be the Columbia Masterworks (box set) it's in German and has
> the only recording of the Ballad of Sexual Dependancy (Lotte Lenya,
> according to the liner notes say that she had everyone leave while she
> recorded it), an incredible recording.
It is not that particular recording. The recording I was referring to was
made in 2000. Well after the Columbia recording (which has, yet another
non-singable, literal translation).
-Dan
John Baxindine
> :exists, but the lyrics can be found on the double-CD so-called "complete"
> :recording of The Threepenny Opera in German which also features narrative
> :written by Brecht for a concert version.
>
> This must be the Columbia Masterworks (box set) it's in German and has
> the only recording of the Ballad of Sexual Dependancy (Lotte Lenya,
> according to the liner notes say that she had everyone leave while she
> recorded it), an incredible recording.
It isn't the Columbia recording. It's the Ensemble Modern recording
from two years ago, starring Max Raabe. The Ensemble Modern is the
best German-language rendition I've heard, but it's far from perfect.
By the way, there are about twenty recordings of the "Ballad of Sexual
Dependency."
> It's really sad, that Brecht's casting notes that indicat that a
> non-singer play Macheath has been so soundly ignored.
It's not sad at all. To begin with, Brecht's casting notes don't
reflect the original production, in which Macheath was played by
operetta tenor Harold Paulsen. They also do not reflect Weill's
intentions. Brecht undertook a revision of THREEPENNY in 1931 (a
revision in which Weill was not asked to participate), and I believe
that the "Notes" date from an even later period when his concepts of
"epic theater" had been codified. Weill found Brecht's later ideas on
song ludicrous - one of many reasons they stopped working together.
Furthermore, Weill's score - and in particular his orchestration -
makes it manifestly clear that Macheath must be played by a talented
singer. In the orchestration, he doubles the melodic material of
virtually every character - including Polly and Jenny - so that
insecure singers will find the support they need in the arrangement.
However, much of Macheath's material is not doubled in the orchestra,
and the singer is left to fend for himself. No non-singer could
possibly pull off "Ballad of the Easy Life" or the third-act finale
(with its high A-flat) in anything approaching a musically (or
dramatically) logical manner.
When Paulsen left the show and was replaced by Wilhelm Trenk-Trebitsch
(whose abysmal vocal performance is preserved on the 1930 cast album),
music director Theo Mackeben had to alter Weill's orchestration in
order to support a non-singer in the role. Trenk-Trebitsch's
performance, judging by the recording, is very much in keeping with
Brecht's "notes" on the subject. But it's not what Weill wrote.
John
John Baxindine
>I discovered THE THREEPENNY OPERA via the Raul Julia cast album
> and I've never been able to understand why the Willet/Mannheim translation is
> supposedly inferior to the Blitzstein. For me, the Willet/Mannheim translation
> *is* THREEPENNY, while Blitzstein's version seems a pale imitation. The
> celebrated "singability" of Blitzstein's adaptation escapes me
Some passages are better than others, of course, but what Blitzstein
does better than anyone else is capture the tone of the original.
(The bowdlerized cast album does not really make this clear.) The
lyrics of the Manheim/Willett version strike me as unmusical and
constipated - written, as they were, by non-musicians who were
attempting a rigid, scholarly translation of the 1931 text (which
itself contains some awkward passages written after the original
production). The obligation to be "literal" and "correct" did not
permit Manheim and Willett to spruce up the translation with any but
the most commonplace inventions of their own. The result is perfect
for use in a classroom.
Blitzstein's adaptation serves a different purpose: to bring the
spirit of THREEPENNY to an English-speaking audience - specifically,
an American audience. Recognizing that many of Brecht's nuances of
language will not translate well, Blitzstein accepted that fact and
invested his work with liberal amounts of his own invention - always
serving the tone of the original while not necessarily being "literal"
and "precise." He used the physical appearances of Bea Arthur and Jo
Sullivan as inspiration for his "Jealousy Duet" translation, and
sprinkled the "Solomon Song" with wry jokes. He chose to delete
untranslatable passages (such as Walter's classic line "Der Mensch
oder das Mensch?") rather than risk ruining them in his attempts at
adaptation.
Since I speak German fairly well, I rarely have reason to turn to the
translations. But the Blitzstein version has a charm of its own that
calls me back to it every once in a while. I cannot say the same for
Manheim/Willett or Vesey/Bentley.
John
Steve & Rhonda
I've never been able to understand why the Willet/Mannheim translation
is supposedly inferior to the Blitzstein. For me, the Willet/Mannheim
translation *is* THREEPENNY, while Blitzstein's version seems a pale
imitation. The celebrated "singability" of Blitzstein's adaptation
Biff>>
Just to clarify here, even thogh Raul Julia also appeared in the film
MACK THE KNIFE, the Willet/Mannheim text was NOT used. Based on
Blitzstein, the adaptation is credited to producer/director/screenwriter
Menahem Golan and musical director Dov Seltzer.
(The film also features Roger Daltrey and Elizabeth "Irma La Douce" Seal
in a tiny role.)
Steve N., who has done the show and still can't figure out how to make
the Eric Bentley "paperback" lyrics remotely fit the music.
Steve & Rhonda
non-singer play Macheath has been so soundly ignored.>>
The problem is that it's a rare "non-singer" who has the range.....
Biff McKeldin
>
>Biff McKeldin wrote:
>
>> I discovered THE THREEPENNY OPERA via the Raul Julia cast album and I've never
>> been able to understand why the Willet/Mannheim translation is supposedly inferior
>> to the Blitzstein. For me, the Willet/Mannheim translation *is* THREEPENNY, while
>> Blitzstein's version seems a pale imitation.
>
>I like the Blitzstein translation better, because in my opinion it projects the
>"spirit" of the original German text better. (Please note that German is my mother
>tongue)
>
Peter (and John), which English language version of THREEPENNY did you first
hear? I'm curious.
Biff
Peter
> hear? I'm curious.
>
> Biff
The Blitzstein
Peter
Peter
> from two years ago, starring Max Raabe. The Ensemble Modern is the
> best German-language rendition I've heard, but it's far from perfect.
>
I find it interesting that you wrote that you found the Ensemble Modern 3PO the best German language rendition
that you have heard.
Although I love the orchestral playing in this recording, the performance is spoiled for me by having MacHeath
sing the Moritat, because I cannot see any remote logic for this. And, secondly, Nina Hagen for the major
portion of her Mrs. Peachum role sounds like she is shrieking rather than singing. Since this is a rather
important character I find this most discouraging, and I wonder why the producers allowed it?
KeLL
"Dan Sternberg" <danny_s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:"KeLL" <day...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
Tranlsations don't really bother me - I use Tango Ballade (in German) as
an audition song - I usually do my own.
But the Columbia Masterworks recording is fabulous. Germany's #1 Cabaret
singer (at the timeof the recording) sang "Mackie Messer" - it was easy
to see where Joel grey got his inspiration for his vocal styling for the
Emcee in "Cabaret"
KeLL
baxi...@yahoo.com (John Baxindine) wrote:
:KeLL <day...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
:news:<cEgK7.53494$S4.50...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
:> No recording of this
:> :exists, but the lyrics can be found on the double-CD so-called "complete"
:> :recording of The Threepenny Opera in German which also features narrative
:> :written by Brecht for a concert version.
:>
:> This must be the Columbia Masterworks (box set) it's in German and has
:> the only recording of the Ballad of Sexual Dependancy (Lotte Lenya,
:> according to the liner notes say that she had everyone leave while she
:> recorded it), an incredible recording.
:
:It isn't the Columbia recording. It's the Ensemble Modern recording
:from two years ago, starring Max Raabe. The Ensemble Modern is the
:best German-language rendition I've heard, but it's far from perfect.
:
:By the way, there are about twenty recordings of the "Ballad of Sexual
:Dependency."
Interesting - thank you.
:
:> It's really sad, that Brecht's casting notes that indicat that a
:
Again. thank you for this - it is going into my files on the show for
future reference.
:John
John Baxindine
> Peter (and John), which English language version of THREEPENNY did you first
> hear? I'm curious.
I read the Manheim/Willett translation of some of the songs when I
borrowed the 1930 recording from a friend. I then borrowed the
Blitzstein while searching for a solid recording of the complete
score.
John
John Baxindine
> Steve N., who has done the show and still can't figure out how to make
> the Eric Bentley "paperback" lyrics remotely fit the music.
Macheath could wax poetic for hours about Jenny's ab-DO-men...
John