The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

[Unknown]

****
A few titles that contain what I feel are Perfect Scores: not one bad song in the bunch. Not One:
"My Fair Lady", "Gypsy", "Follies", "A Little Night Music", "South Pacific", "Cabaret", "West Side Story", "The Sound Of Music" (1959), "Bye Bye Birdie"(1960), "How To Succeed", "She Loves Me", "Company", "Mack and Mabel".

I'd include "Carousel" but the one minor thing that stops me is that, after seeing the 1994 revival, I feel that 'Jigger' shouldn't sing anything. At All.

Almosts: "Oklahoma!" ("Scandal! Outrage!" - Character-appropriate but Clunk!)
"Guys and Dolls" ("More I Cannot Wish You" - Pretty but Clunk!)

Add. Subtract. Debate. Discuss. Laugh. Cry. Share.

Buzz
****

[Bill]

A good list, Buzz. My only quibbles are MACK AND MABEL (does nothing for
me), and -- not to start up this debate again -- "An Ordinary Couple" in
SOM.

I'd add KISMET, CANDIDE, THE ROTHSCHILDS and, in your "Almost"
category, THE HUMAN COMEDY, ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, TENDERLOIN, SHOW
BOAT and PAL JOEY.

Drumm

:::::::::::::
"Shut up," he explained.

[Larry Westlake]

My gripe would be More I Cannot Wish You - I think it's a lovely song. We
just used it in a Broadway revue I did and it was a hit.

I do think the right person has to be singing these songs too. So many good
songs are ruined when I hear some people sing them who shouldn't. Every hear
Debbie Reynolds do Adelaide's songs from G & D on that special Reprise album
with Sinatra and the gang? I rest my case.

L

"Bill" <bdr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:5200-3E1...@storefull-2353.public.lawson.webtv.net...

[Steve Newport]

"He's in Love" has been removed from KISMET. Fine with me. Wish they had
added the Lincoln Center duet version of "Bored." I feel about THE HUMAN
COMEDY (which I saw on Broadway--long evening) kinda the way you feel
about BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S. Is it okay that I said "kinda?" (BFS)

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2003, 5:10pm (EST-2)
From: bdr...@webtv.net (Bill)
I'd add KISMET and in your "Almost" category, THE HUMAN COMEDY.
Drumm

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Steve Newport]

The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2003, 10:21pm (EST+5)
From: (Buzz Hauser)
<<<"Mack and Mabel".>>>
-------------------
Don't like "I Promise You a Happy Ending." Like "My Heart Leaps Up" on
OBC much more than "Hit 'em on the Head" now in the script. (They put
back the former when I played the part in the 80's.)
--------------------

<<<I'd include "Carousel" but the one minor thing that stops me is that,
after seeing the 1994 revival, I feel that 'Jigger' shouldn't sing
anything.>>>

--------------------
Maybe not either of THOSE Jiggers. (The stoners in leather!!) I like
both songs. All the gunk leading up to "June is Bustin' Out All Over"
could go, though.
--------------------

"Guys and Dolls" ("More I Cannot Wish You"

--------------------
I really like this song. Works like the Max & Elsa numbers, in terms of
giving the audience a break from the other vocalists. I've never been
crazy over the utility "Follow the Fold" or (pause) "The Oldest
Established." I do like the film songs "(Ever Lovin') Adelaide" and "A
Woman in Love."

[Unknown]

"Larry Westlake" <capri...@sympatico.ca> writes: > My gripe would be More I Cannot Wish You - I think it's a lovely song.

> We just used it in a Broadway revue I did and it was a hit.

****
I agree: a Pretty song, character-appropriate, as sung by the OBCr cast member. But talk about stopping a story dead in its
tracks. Sung by a character we're not really involved with (although sung TO a character we're heavily involved with). The
rest of the "Guys and Dolls" score....perfect.

Buzz
****

[gerald.brown]

<Buzz Hauser> wrote in message news:v1hbvt...@corp.supernews.com...

> ****
> A few titles that contain what I feel are Perfect Scores: not one bad song
in the bunch. Not One:
> "My Fair Lady", "Gypsy", "Follies", "A Little Night Music", "South
Pacific", "Cabaret", "West Side Story", "The Sound Of Music" (1959), "Bye
Bye Birdie"(1960), "How To Succeed", "She Loves Me", "Company", "Mack and
Mabel".
>

Most will find this list eccentric but:
I would go with "The Happiest Girl in the World"(I like Offenbach), "The
Student Prince"(I like beer), "City of
Angels" and "Gigi"(the film, never saw it on stage).

I saw "Mack and Mabel" in previews in DC.....I almost walked out. I saw "A
Little Night Music" at the pre-Broadway Boston opening and was
underwhelmed(I do like Bergman's "Smiles of a Summer Night").."Cabaret" is
fine, but has that awful song about the pineapple...so I wouldn't say it was
perfect. I can't name one song from""How to Succeed". Saw "Bye Bye Birdie"
in Philly with Tommy Tune and a dreadful Ann Reinking....tuneful score, but
can it really stand up there with "MFL" and "SP"? I think not.
"Follies" is Sondheim's best score/a shame the book is egregious.Bernstein
was a genius; "She Loves Me" does
not resonate with me.'Company'' is slick and witty; I just think "City of
Angels" is slicker and wittier(both shows lack a heart,
methinks)....oh,"Gypsy"-Styne was a genius,too. BTW, good topic for a
thread. gb

[Unknown]

srrne...@webtv.net (Steve Newport) writes: >
> The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

> <<<I'd include "Carousel" but the one minor thing that stops me is that,
> after seeing the 1994 revival, I feel that 'Jigger' shouldn't sing
> anything.>>>
> --------------------

> Maybe not either of THOSE Jiggers. I like both songs. All the gunk leading

> up to "June is Bustin' Out All Over" could go, though.

****
I'm going by the OBCr cast recording. By seeing how Jigger plays into the action in
the 1994 revival (the Character, NOT the performer), I felt it Very Odd that this
serious character suddenly breaks into lively music. The rest of the "Carousel"
score....gorgeous and perfect.
****

--------------------
> "Guys and Dolls" ("More I Cannot Wish You"
> --------------------
> I really like this song. Works like the Max & Elsa numbers, in terms of
> giving the audience a break from the other vocalists.

****
However, Max and Elsa's songs are better, IMHO, than "More". Clunk!
...The film songs "(Ever Lovin') Adelaide" and "A Woman in Love." The latter
is a Major Clunk compared to "I've Never Been In Love Before". The former
is a Sinatra song, IMHO, not a "Guys And Dolls" song. Minor clink.

Buzz
****

[Unknown]

srrne...@webtv.net (Steve Newport) writes: I feel about THE HUMAN

> COMEDY (which I saw on Broadway--long evening) kinda the way you feel
> about BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S.

> From: bdr...@webtv.net (Bill)

> I'd add KISMET and in your "Almost" category, THE HUMAN COMEDY.
> Drumm

****
At The Public, "The Human Comedy" was wonderfully heartbreaking and touching.
I gave it my vote as Best Musical. Then went to see it, with friends, on
its transfer to Broadway. MAAJOR Clunk. One friend left at intermission and
the others looked at me as if I had seriously lost my mind. Trying to explain
the difference in productions were hopeless, mainly because I was speechless
that what once was terrific fell sooooooo flat in a production that was not
re-directed for a Broadway house-proscenium stage.

Buzz
****

[Bert Morris]

Add: "The Music Man"(1957) - a perfect score from beginning to end.

Bert

[Bert Morris]

Add: "The Music Man"(1957) - a perfect score from beginning to end.

Bert

[Unknown]

"gerald.brown" <gerald...@attbi.com> writes: >
> Most will find this list eccentric but:
> I would go with "The Happiest Girl in the World"(I like Offenbach)

****
Buzz hears 'clinking' nearby....
****

> "Gigi"(the film, never saw it on stage).

****
The Film....Yes! Perfect! The stage version has some clunkers, though.
****

> Saw "Bye Bye Birdie" in Philly with Tommy Tune and a dreadful Ann Reinking.
> ...tuneful score, but can it really stand up there with "MFL" and "SP"?

****
I'm not putting "Bye Bye Birdie" up there with "Lady" or "Pacific". I'm
talking about how the scores fit perfectly with the shows. Forget the Tune
"Birdie". My original post specifically said the 1960 "Birdie". For the show,
it's score is perfect. Not a clinker in it. JMHO.

Buzz
****

[gerald.brown]

<Buzz Hauser> wrote in message > ****

> I'm not putting "Bye Bye Birdie" up there with "Lady" or "Pacific". I'm
> talking about how the scores fit perfectly with the shows. Forget the
Tune
> "Birdie". My original post specifically said the 1960 "Birdie". For the
show,
> it's score is perfect. Not a clinker in it. JMHO.

I stand corrected-you did say the 1960 version. Were there changes made to
the Tune revival? I saw my first
B'dway show in 1963, so the original "Birdie" is a little
(okay, not a lot)before my time. I think the casting of Paul Lynde against
type should make some kind of top ten list,
BTW(I assume the movie picked him up from the NY cast). gb
ps: if they had had the guts to title "Happiest Girl"
as "Never Trust A Virgin" it wudda been a hit.

[Bill]

Buzz: << At The Public, "The Human Comedy" was wonderfully heartbreaking
and touching. >>
..........
This is what I've always heard. Never saw it, anywhere. But the book is
a favorite since reading it in high school, and I adore the score
(except for some of the soldiers' material at the top of Act Two).

The production I see in my head when I listen to the recoding is
_brilliant_.

Good thread, Buzz!

[Steve Newport]

Still not fond of "It's You" or "My White Night" except for the middle
part retained in "Being in Love." (Also not so hot.) But otherwise,
yes.....

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2003, 11:41pm From:
bertm...@erols.com (Bert Morris)

Add: "The Music Man"(1957) - a perfect score from beginning to end.

[Steve Newport]

That happens to me a lot: ANKLES AWEIGH, ANYA, etc. etc. etc.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Sun, Jan 5, 2003, 11:15pm (EST-2)
From: bdr...@webtv.net (Bill) Never saw THE HUMAN COMEDY anywhere. But

the book is a favorite since reading it in high school, and I adore the
score (except for some of the soldiers' material at the top of Act Two).

The production I see in my head when I listen to the recording is
_brilliant_. Drumm

[Steve Newport]

Metoo. Methinks they both lack wit as well. (And I toured in COA.)

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Mon, Jan 6, 2003, 4:15am (EST+5)
From: gerald...@attbi.com (gerald.brown)

Company'' is slick and witty; I just think "City of Angels" is slicker
and wittier (both shows lack a heart, methinks)

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Steve Newport]

And look what happened when the role was cast TO type. George Wendt!

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Mon, Jan 6, 2003, 5:30am (EST+5)
From: gerald...@attbi.com (gerald.brown)

I think the casting of Paul Lynde against type should make some kind of

top ten list...

[Theat...@webtv.net]

I agree on MUSIC MAN......not one song that shouldn't be there.
BRIGADOON has a very nice score also. Ron

[Harlett O'Dowd]

Buzz Hauser <> wrote in message news:<v1i0lvt...@corp.supernews.com>...

> srrne...@webtv.net (Steve Newport) writes: >
> > The Perfect Broadway Musical Score
> > <<<I'd include "Carousel" but the one minor thing that stops me is that,
> > after seeing the 1994 revival, I feel that 'Jigger' shouldn't sing
> > anything.>>>
> > --------------------
> > Maybe not either of THOSE Jiggers. I like both songs. All the gunk leading
> > up to "June is Bustin' Out All Over" could go, though.
>
> ****
> I'm going by the OBCr cast recording. By seeing how Jigger plays into the action in
> the 1994 revival (the Character, NOT the performer), I felt it Very Odd that this
> serious character suddenly breaks into lively music. The rest of the "Carousel"
> score....gorgeous and perfect.

"Serious"??????? He's a comic villain and one of the few performances
I enjoyed in the revival. CAROUSEL is far and away my favorite R&H
score and show.

FOLLIES, much as I love it *does* have a clunker in "The Right Girl".
It stops the show dead for exposition we get numerous times elsewhere
and it has been rarely danced (or at least danced successfully) since
Gene Nelson hung up his shoes.

Unlike Steve Newport, I love MACK & MABLE's "I Promise You a Happy
Ending" (in fact I prefer the album's ending to the published
script's) but find "My Heart Leaps Up" to be a stinker. I've never
heard "Hit Him On The Head" but from the printed lyric I can't imagine
it's much of an improvement.

But I second the call for THE MUSIC MAN as a perfect score.

Some near-misses:

KISS ME, KATE ("Bianca")
KISMET ("He's in Love")
FIDDLER ("Now I Have Everything")

[Henry Sullivan]

Roberta
Babes in Arms
On Your Toes
Annie Get Your Gun
High Spirits

[gerald.brown]

Just looked up a picture of GW to see who he was....some kinda TV series
performer(?), I presume.
I have retired that role,"in my mind's eye" TQWS. It will
always be PL. gb

"Steve Newport" <srrne...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:2549-3E1...@storefull-2371.public.lawson.webtv.net...

[gerald.brown]

<Buzz Hauser> wrote in message news:v1hbvt...@corp.supernews.com...

> Add. Subtract. Debate. Discuss. Laugh. Cry. Share.

Brain fade...how else could I omit G&S from my list:
'Pirates" "Pinafore" "Mikado" "Iolanthe" & "Gondoliers"
have perfect scores . All were huge hits in NY except for
"Gondoliers"(nicknamed "gonedollars" by some wag). The Yanks might not have
been all that bright ,but they knew who the butt of the joke was in the
anti-republican 2nd act. "Pirates"(please,no one mention the Joe Papp
monstrosity)actually had its world premiere in NY. g&s
wanted to pull the rug out from under American unauthorized
productions. The stragegy didn't work: there were soon multiple "pirated"
productions playing the white way.
"Pinafore" was the most popular over here; I think Victor Herbert once
conducted a pirate version of it. gb

[lastan...@webtv.net]

[Henry Sullivan]

The show that immediately came to mind and always does when I think of
perfect scores is GUYS AND DOLLS. For me, nothing is unworthy or
unnecessary, including "More I Cannot Wish You". The movie (except for
Vivian Blaine and Stubby Kaye) I'd like to forget, including the three
new songs. "Pet Me Poppa" will never replace "A Bushel and a Peck".

[Unknown]

chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) writes: re: Jigger, as a serious
character, as described by Buzz

>
> "Serious"??????? He's a comic villain and one of the few performances
> I enjoyed in the revival. CAROUSEL is far and away my favorite R&H
> score and show.

****
I don't/didn't find Jigger "comic" except perhaps in the Carrie-over-the-
shoulder scene. In any case, I found it quite jarring when the character (and
I repeat, NOT the actor) started singing. It just didn't feel right that Jigger
would let loose with a song.
****

> But I second the call for THE MUSIC MAN as a perfect score.

****
I almost put "The Music Man" on my initial post because I too feel it is a
perfect score. But I thought I might get hit in the head with thrown bricks
because of "Shipoopi" or "Pick A Little" (both which I love). But to heck with it - "The Music
Man" IS a perfect score.
****

> Some near-misses:
> KISS ME, KATE ("Bianca")
> KISMET ("He's in Love")
> FIDDLER ("Now I Have Everything")

****
Agreed, Harlett O'Dowd. Right there we have a clink, clank, clunk!

Buzz
****

[Unknown]

srrne...@webtv.net (Steve Newport) writes: > That happens to me a lot:

> ANKLES AWEIGH, ANYA, etc. etc. etc.
>

> From: bdr...@webtv.net (Bill) Never saw THE HUMAN COMEDY anywhere.
> The production I see in my head when I listen to the recording is
> _brilliant_. Drumm
>

****
It happens to me, too: TENDERLOIN, KEAN, DO I HEAR A WALTZ, FLORA THE RED
MENACE (the Liza version), etc., etc., etc.

Buzz
****

[Unknown]

> From: gerald...@attbi.com (gerald.brown)
> Company'' is slick and witty; I just think "City of Angels" is slicker
> and wittier (both shows lack a heart, methinks)

****
Yes, lack of heart. And cold. And yet "City Of Angels" has a stunning score.
And yet again, I listen to "Company" 20x for every 1x I play "City".

Buzz
****

[Unknown]

"gerald.brown" <gerald...@attbi.com> writes: > Just looked up a picture of GW

> to see who he was....some kinda TV series performer(?), I presume.

****
Presumed correct. Played a leading role on TV's "Cheers" forEver. Perfect for
that role. NOT perfect for the Birdie dad.

Buzz
****

[A Tsar Is Born]

My late father used to say there were only two perfect Broadway
musicals: My Fair Lady and Kiss Me, Kate: "Even the throwaway,
'between-numbers' songs are terrific." I certainly place them at the
top of my list.

Buzz Hauser <> wrote in message news:<v1hbvt...@corp.supernews.com>...

> ****
> A few titles that contain what I feel are Perfect Scores: not one bad song in the bunch. Not One:
> "My Fair Lady", "Gypsy",

Never liked Little Lamb. I guess it has a plot point. But it ain't
much of a song.

>"Follies"

How many alternates are you including?

> "A Little Night Music",

I wouldn't miss Every Day a Little Death. I like the Countess as a
character, and I guess she needs something to sing.... (I prefer the
Bergman film to the book of the musical.)

> "South Pacific", "Cabaret",

Several mediocre songs in the original Cabaret.

>"West Side Story", "The Sound Of Music" (1959),

I find the whole show embarrassing and don't love anything in it.
(Neither did Dad.)

> "Bye Bye Birdie"(1960),

Everyone was delighted at Marie's on New Year's Eve when I could sing
all the lyrics to "Put On A Happy Face"-- no one else knew them. (Of
course, I did not admit I'd seen the first run.) But a lot of the
songs are substandard. Chita could bring off "One Special Guy" and
"Spanish Rose", but who'd want to hear anyone else sing them? The
Elvis parodies are amusing parodies, no more.

> "How To Succeed",

Ditto.

>"She Loves Me",

Like everyone on RATM, I adore it.
But Sipos's song and Maracek's song and Arpad's song and Kodaly's
second song would not be noticed if they weren't there. They're barely
noticed when they are.

>"Company", "Mack and Mabel".

Don't know it.

>"Guys and Dolls" ("More I Cannot Wish You" - Pretty but Clunk!)

Agree with both sentiments.
Another on my list of the best shows ever.
(Is there a finer song of discovering one is in love than "If I Were a
Bell" ?)

"Pal Joey" and "The Music Man" have been mentioned on this thread --
"Red Hot Mama" is fun in context, but not much by itself. I don't much
like "My White Knight" even in context, even with Barbara Cook.

Would add "Finian's Rainbow" but "That Great Come and Get It Day" gets
on my nerves. Actually, I now ADORE all the songs in that show that I
didn't like when I was seven and first fell in love with it: The
Begat, Necessity, When the Idle Poor Become the Idle Rich. There is
something to be said for sophistication.

Jean Coeur de Lapin

[Steve Newport]

"Now I Have Everything" is my favorite song in FIDDLER, which I feel is
Bock and Harnick's weakest commercially recorded score. And yes, Jigger
is both Ali Hakim and Jud. (And I like "The Right Girl" more than "The
Road You Didn't Take.")

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Mon, Jan 6, 2003, 5:52am (EST-3)
From: chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) "Serious"???????
Jigger's a comic villain. FIDDLER (except "Now I Have Everything")

[Steve Newport]

God, yes, the Liza, not the Veanne version. I did direct TENDERLOIN. In
1976. What was in my head never reached the stage.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Tue, Jan 7, 2003, 3:34am (EST+5)
From: (Buzz Hauser) It happens to me, too: TENDERLOIN, KEAN, DO I HEAR

A WALTZ, FLORA THE RED MENACE (the Liza version), etc., etc., etc.

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Harlett O'Dowd]

srrne...@webtv.net (Steve Newport) wrote in message news:<15552-3E...@storefull-2373.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> "Now I Have Everything" is my favorite song in FIDDLER, which I feel is
> Bock and Harnick's weakest commercially recorded score.

I guess that's why God made chocolate and vanilla. I even enjoy The
Rumor in context when done with brio. There's a kinda ubiquitous (or
inevitable) feeling with FIDDLER productions like that surrounding
OKLAHOMA! but I find the scores to both remarkably fresh - with one or
two sour notes.

Maybe I expect too much from "Now I Have Everything" but compared to
similar now-I'm-in-love songs ("I Have Dreamed", "Some Enchanted
Evening", "The Street Where You Live") it's no world beater. I admit
I like the duet-bridge better than the rest of the song. Perhaps the
whole thing should have been a duet.

And it's certainly better than "Any Day Now", the replacement song
(also cut) from the film version.

Poor Bert Convy - two shows where he *needed* a song and while
dramatically fine were musically lackluster - and are now usually cut.

>And yes, Jigger
> is both Ali Hakim and Jud. (And I like "The Right Girl" more than "The
> Road You Didn't Take.")

Apparently so did the production team for the London production.

I see "The Right Girl" as what, apparently it was - a shoehorned dance
number for underwritten Gene Nelson. Without the dance (which is more
common nowadays than not) it's not much of a song and is dramatically
redundant.

"The Road You Didn't Take" is far from the strongest song in the score
but can be effective (I believe it's what got George Hearn his Tony
nod for PUTTING IT TOGETHER) and, dramatically and thematically fills
its spot well.

This IS an interesting thread and proves that virtually no show no
matter how much we love it is truly perfect.

[Steve Newport]

I also love "Why Should I Wake Up?" and, like "Now I Have Everything" it
should NEVER be cut. I think "Pleasant Little Kingdom" more directly
achieves what RYDT sets out to do. It *is* good for the actor if hard to
follow on first hearing in the theater. I view Buddy's two expositional
songs as companion pieces.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Tue, Jan 7, 2003, 11:41am (EST-3)
From: chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) Poor Bert Convy -

two shows where he *needed* a song and while dramatically fine were
musically lackluster - and are now usually cut.

"The Road You Didn't Take" is far from the strongest song in the score
but can be effective (I believe it's what got George Hearn his Tony nod
for PUTTING IT TOGETHER) and, dramatically and thematically fills its

spot well. This thread proves that virtually no show no matter how much

we love it is truly perfect.

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Unknown]

atsar...@hotmail.com (A Tsar Is Born) writes:
> >"Follies"
>
> How many alternates are you including?

****
My choice is based on the original 1970 production.
****

> > "Bye Bye Birdie"(1960),
> But a lot of the songs are substandard. who'd want to hear anyone else

> sing them? The Elvis parodies are amusing parodies, no more.

> > "How To Succeed",
> Ditto.

****
My original posting, which some have misunderstood I think, was stating that
the scores are perfect for their respective shows. Not all the shows are classics.
Not all the scores are classics. None of the shows are meant to compete with
each other. None of the songs are meant to be taken out of context and sung
by someone on a solo recording. Not all of the shows/scores are my "favorites".

That said, (parodies, substandards, and songs unable to be recorded by Barbra
Streisand put aside), I still say all of the shows in my original post have scores
that suit them perfectly.

Buzz
****

[Meron Lavie]

"Follow the Fold" is a *parody* of Revivalist/Salvation Army songs. It is
*not supposed* to be a brilliant song.

Lavie

"Steve Newport" <srrne...@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:12528-3E1...@storefull-2373.public.lawson.webtv.net...
--------------------

"Guys and Dolls" ("More I Cannot Wish You"

--------------------
I really like this song. Works like the Max & Elsa numbers, in terms of
giving the audience a break from the other vocalists. I've never been
crazy over the utility "Follow the Fold" or (pause) "The Oldest
Established." I do like the film songs "(Ever Lovin') Adelaide" and "A
Woman in Love."

[Meron Lavie]

Gypsy: "Mr. Goldstone" could/should have been cut.

As for "More I Cannot Wish You" - it is indeed "just" a simple song, yet
therein lies its beauty.

Lavie

<Buzz Hauser> wrote in message news:v1hbvt...@corp.supernews.com...
> ****
> A few titles that contain what I feel are Perfect Scores: not one bad song
in the bunch. Not One:

> "My Fair Lady", "Gypsy", "Follies", "A Little Night Music", "South
Pacific", "Cabaret", "West Side Story", "The Sound Of Music" (1959), "Bye
Bye Birdie"(1960), "How To Succeed", "She Loves Me", "Company", "Mack and
Mabel".
>

> I'd include "Carousel" but the one minor thing that stops me is that,
after seeing the 1994 revival, I feel that 'Jigger' shouldn't sing anything.

At All.
>
> Almosts: "Oklahoma!" ("Scandal! Outrage!" - Character-appropriate but
Clunk!)
> "Guys and Dolls" ("More I Cannot Wish You" - Pretty but Clunk!)

>
>
> Add. Subtract. Debate. Discuss. Laugh. Cry. Share.
>

> Buzz
> ****

[Meron Lavie]

Kismet?

Well, it is a perfect score - if that's the name you'd like to give to
"Borodin's Greatest Hits" (as opposed to "Song of Norway", which is
"Grieg's" greatest hits).

Lavie

"Bill" <bdr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:5200-3E1...@storefull-2353.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> A good list, Buzz. My only quibbles are MACK AND MABEL (does nothing for
> me), and -- not to start up this debate again -- "An Ordinary Couple" in
> SOM.
>
> I'd add KISMET, CANDIDE, THE ROTHSCHILDS and, in your "Almost"
> category, THE HUMAN COMEDY, ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, TENDERLOIN, SHOW
> BOAT and PAL JOEY.

[Meron Lavie]

Hey Bert - you could be in trouble. The *legal* name of the show is
"Meredith Wilson's The Music Man", and it is my understanding that the
estate is rather aggressive in dealing with those who dare use anything less
than the full name...

Lavie

"Bert Morris" <bertm...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3E1908CE...@erols.com...

> Buzz Hauser wrote:
> >
> > ****
> > A few titles that contain what I feel are Perfect Scores: not one bad
song in the bunch. Not One:
> > "My Fair Lady", "Gypsy", "Follies", "A Little Night Music", "South
Pacific", "Cabaret", "West Side Story", "The Sound Of Music" (1959), "Bye
Bye Birdie"(1960), "How To Succeed", "She Loves Me", "Company", "Mack and
Mabel".
> >
> > I'd include "Carousel" but the one minor thing that stops me is that,
after seeing the 1994 revival, I feel that 'Jigger' shouldn't sing anything.
At All.
> >
> > Almosts: "Oklahoma!" ("Scandal! Outrage!" - Character-appropriate but
Clunk!)
> > "Guys and Dolls" ("More I Cannot Wish You" - Pretty but
Clunk!)
> >
> > Add. Subtract. Debate. Discuss. Laugh. Cry. Share.
> >
> > Buzz
> > ****
>

> Add: "The Music Man"(1957) - a perfect score from beginning to end.
>

> Bert

[Meron Lavie]

"An English Teacher", "What Did I Ever See in Him?" and "Rosie" could well
be added to Gilbert and Sullivan's "Little List", and not one of them be'd
missed...

Lavie

<Buzz Hauser> wrote in message news:v1i3s2d...@corp.supernews.com...
> "gerald.brown" <gerald...@attbi.com> writes: >
> > Most will find this list eccentric but:
> > I would go with "The Happiest Girl in the World"(I like Offenbach)
>
> ****
> Buzz hears 'clinking' nearby....
> ****
>
> > "Gigi"(the film, never saw it on stage).
>
> ****
> The Film....Yes! Perfect! The stage version has some clunkers, though.
> ****
>
> > Saw "Bye Bye Birdie" in Philly with Tommy Tune and a dreadful Ann
Reinking.
> > ...tuneful score, but can it really stand up there with "MFL" and "SP"?
>
> ****
> I'm not putting "Bye Bye Birdie" up there with "Lady" or "Pacific". I'm
> talking about how the scores fit perfectly with the shows. Forget the
Tune
> "Birdie". My original post specifically said the 1960 "Birdie". For the
show,
> it's score is perfect. Not a clinker in it. JMHO.
>
> Buzz
> ****

[Steve Newport]

Because Hytner screwed the whole thing up with his perverse
telegraphing. (Making Billy seem like an idiot for being taken in by
him.) Not only is Jigger supposed to be the show's comic until the card
scene, but the audience should be with him when he mocks Mrs. Mullin as
an "old pleasure boat", and rooting for him to maybe get a little from
that luscious piece Carrie, before she's doomed to a life with the
joyless Snow. Cameron Mitchell was perfect in the film. Seemingly just a
charming rascal, until...

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Tue, Jan 7, 2003, 3:29am (EST+5)
From: (Buzz Hauser) I don't/didn't find Jigger "comic" except perhaps

in the Carrie-over-the- shoulder scene.

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Steve Newport]

Let's not go there again, *please.......*

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Wed, Jan 8, 2003, 7:23am (EST+7)
From: la...@net2vision.net.il (Meron Lavie)

Kismet? Well, it is a perfect score - if that's the name you'd like to
give to "Borodin's Greatest Hits" (as opposed to "Song of Norway", which
is "Grieg's" greatest hits).

[Steve Newport]

And it isn't.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Wed, Jan 8, 2003, 7:19am (EST+7)
From: la...@net2vision.net.il (Meron Lavie)

"Follow the Fold" is a *parody* of Revivalist/Salvation Army songs. It
is *not supposed* to be a brilliant song.

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Harlett O'Dowd]

srrne...@webtv.net (Steve Newport) wrote in message news:<15552-3E1...@storefull-2373.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> Because Hytner screwed the whole thing up with his perverse
> telegraphing. (Making Billy seem like an idiot for being taken in by
> him.) Not only is Jigger supposed to be the show's comic until the card
> scene, but the audience should be with him when he mocks Mrs. Mullin as
> an "old pleasure boat", and rooting for him to maybe get a little from
> that luscious piece Carrie, before she's doomed to a life with the
> joyless Snow. Cameron Mitchell was perfect in the film. Seemingly just a
> charming rascal, until...

And his "Stonecutters" is the necessary compliment to Snow's
"Geraniums in the winder." Snow NEEDS to be comicly deflated. Also,
Geraniums/Stonecutters/Wondrin' are part of a through-composed scene.
In fact, most of the score is composed in 8-12 minute sections.
Clambake and, arguably, "Walk Alone" are exceptions.

Cut "Stonecutters" and you totally unbalance Rodgers'
through-composing here, like cutting the bridge out of a song.

"Blow High" is simply a production number and dramatically can be cut
with little loss. However, the "June" scene is LONG and the Hornpipe,
when included - and done well - really helps to buoy the first act -
and adds an uncommon moment of JOY to the proceedings. Once again -
serious musical COMEDY.

[Steve Newport]

We need to start labeling them as such for the literal minded SAIGON
crowd.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Wed, Jan 8, 2003, 6:02am (EST-3)
From: chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) Cut "Stonecutters"

and you totally unbalance Rodgers' through-composing here, like cutting

the bridge out of a song. And the Hornpipe adds an uncommon moment of

JOY to the proceedings. Once again - serious musical COMEDY.

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Meron Lavie]

But it is a great song to use in teaching 4 part voice leading to students.

Lavie

"Meron Lavie" <la...@net2vision.net.il> wrote in message
news:newscache$msqd8h$wz6$1...@lnews.actcom.co.il...

[Bert Morris]

Meron Lavie wrote:
>
> Hey Bert - you could be in trouble. The *legal* name of the show is
> "Meredith Wilson's The Music Man", and it is my understanding that the
> estate is rather aggressive in dealing with those who dare use anything less
> than the full name...
>
> Lavie

Dear Lavie,

Legal Trouble? Who, me? (blink, blink).

It's OK ... I've got thick skin, broad shoulders and deep pockets ....
besides, they should be grateful I dared pick "their" musical after 24
other posts on this thread!

Regards,
Bert (who is very happy that least a few other RATMites like "TMM" as a
perfect Broadway musical score).

[Steve Newport]

And even if one doesn't think it's perfect, one can still consider it
*easily* one of the best!!

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Wed, Jan 8, 2003, 2:08pm From:
bertm...@erols.com (Bert Morris)

Bert (who is very happy that least a few other RATMites like "TMM" as a
perfect Broadway musical score).

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Harlett O'Dowd]

srrne...@webtv.net (Steve Newport) wrote in message news:<7753-3E1...@storefull-2375.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> We need to start labeling them as such for the literal minded SAIGON
> crowd.
>
> Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score
>
> Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Wed, Jan 8, 2003, 6:02am (EST-3)
> From: chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) Cut "Stonecutters"
> and you totally unbalance Rodgers' through-composing here, like cutting
> the bridge out of a song. And the Hornpipe adds an uncommon moment of
> JOY to the proceedings. Once again - serious musical COMEDY.

The oddest thing about Buzz's comments (Buzz, if you're listening) is
that, seeing the 94 revival late in the run, I thought the Jigger was
almost TOO comic and, as such, the card scene kinda came out of
nowhere for me.

Don't get me wrong, I liked the performance a lot. It was, after
Audra's, my favorite performance in the production, but it was, for
me, broad.

Buzz, that's why I was particuarly puzzled by your comments. Perhaps
I saw a replacement who made his own choices, or perhaps we just saw
things differently. That's the beauty of live theatre.

[Matthew A. Murray]

In news:3E1C7713...@erols.com, Bert Morris (bertm...@erols.com)
wrote:

>> Hey Bert - you could be in trouble. The *legal* name of the show is
>> "Meredith Wilson's The Music Man", and it is my understanding that
>> the estate is rather aggressive in dealing with those who dare use
>> anything less than the full name...

I would hope they'd be more aggressive in making sure it's
spelled Meredith Willson's The Music Man. (Then again, it's misspelled on
the promo CD, so...)

----------------------------
Matthew A. Murray
matthe...@mindspring.com
http://www.matthewmurray.net
----------------------------

[Unknown]

chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) writes: > The oddest thing

> about Buzz's comments (Buzz, if you're listening) is that, seeing the 94
> revival late in the run, I thought the Jigger was almost TOO comic and,
> as such, the card scene kinda came out of nowhere for me.
>

> Don't get me wrong, I liked the performance a lot, but it was, for me, broad.

>
> Buzz, that's why I was particuarly puzzled by your comments. Perhaps
> I saw a replacement who made his own choices, or perhaps we just saw
> things differently. That's the beauty of live theatre.

****
I believe I saw Fisher Stevens in the part. The production itself is what
is memorable to me now, moreso than Mr. Stevens individual performance.
But I distinctly remember thinking that Jigger should just not sing. It
seemed at odds with the whole rest of the show. So, perhaps it was just
that one performance. I've never seen any other production of "Carousel"
on stage and I am not a fan of the movie version. When it comes to "Carousel",
I rely upon the OBCr, truncated as it may be.

Buzz
****

[Harlett O'Dowd]

"Matthew A. Murray" <matthe...@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<avie5b$t68$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>...

> In news:3E1C7713...@erols.com, Bert Morris (bertm...@erols.com)
> wrote:
>
>
> >> Hey Bert - you could be in trouble. The *legal* name of the show is
> >> "Meredith Wilson's The Music Man", and it is my understanding that
> >> the estate is rather aggressive in dealing with those who dare use
> >> anything less than the full name...
>
> I would hope they'd be more aggressive in making sure it's
> spelled Meredith Willson's The Music Man. (Then again, it's misspelled on
> the promo CD, so...)

I'd laugh if I wasn't crying. Thanks for letting us know what level
of professionalism we're dealing with.

[Harlett O'Dowd]

Buzz Hauser <> wrote in message news:<v1pr10a...@corp.supernews.com>...

> I believe I saw Fisher Stevens in the part.

I thought I did too. I'll have to check my playbill.

>The production itself is what
> is memorable to me now, moreso than Mr. Stevens individual performance.
> But I distinctly remember thinking that Jigger should just not sing. It
> seemed at odds with the whole rest of the show. So, perhaps it was just
> that one performance.

As I said, the beauty of live theatre. I don't discount the validity
of your reaction (only that it's wrong - BFS.) I marvel at how two
people can see the same show and, IIRC, the same actor - and come away
with tow different reactions.

> I've never seen any other production of "Carousel"
> on stage and I am not a fan of the movie version. When it comes to "Carousel",
> I rely upon the OBCr, truncated as it may be.

My CAROUSEL of choice as well.

[Bushwhacker]

Harlett O'Dowd wrote:
> Buzz Hauser <> wrote in message news:<v1pr10a...@corp.supernews.com>...
>
>
>
>>I believe I saw Fisher Stevens in the part.
>
>
> I thought I did too. I'll have to check my playbill.
>
>
>>The production itself is what
>>is memorable to me now, moreso than Mr. Stevens individual performance.
>>But I distinctly remember thinking that Jigger should just not sing. It
>>seemed at odds with the whole rest of the show. So, perhaps it was just
>>that one performance.
>
>
> As I said, the beauty of live theatre. I don't discount the validity
> of your reaction (only that it's wrong - BFS.) I marvel at how two
> people can see the same show and, IIRC, the same actor - and come away
> with tow different reactions.
>

Happens all the time. I saw Jose Ferrer as Quixote and Yul Brynner as
the King, and neither performance was memorable, except as
disappointing. To thousands of other viewers, they were classic.

[Steve Newport]

The film does have some good performances: Nettie, Mr. Snow, Mrs.
Mullin, Jigger.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Thu, Jan 9, 2003, 3:27am (EST+5)
From: (Buzz Hauser) I've never seen any other production of "Carousel"

on stage and I am not a fan of the movie version.

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Steve Newport]

Compared to Kiley, Ferrer would have to be vocally disappointing
(although I came to accept his modest singing abilities in DEEP IN MY
HEART and FANNY) but, still, a good acting choice. When Brynner first
did the revival (with Constance Towers) he was still in good form. As he
got sicker and sicker (and started cutting "A Puzzlement")
however...Even Kiley seemed a little under the weather in the MOLM
revival I saw. (After being fresh and dead on in a concert verson of
KNICKERBOCKER HOLIDAY.)

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Thu, Jan 9, 2003, 11:10pm (EST+5)
From: ro...@thetop.org (Bushwhacker)

I saw Jose Ferrer as Quixote and Yul Brynner as the King, and neither
performance was memorable, except as disappointing.

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Steve Newport]

Let's hope they fix it before it becomes another "Steven" Sondheim
crisis.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Wed, Jan 8, 2003, 7:02pm From:
matthe...@mindspring.com (Matthew A. Murray) <<<The *legal* name

of the show is "Meredith Wilson's The Music Man", and it is my
understanding that the estate is rather aggressive in dealing with those
who dare use anything less than the full name...>>>

----------------

I would hope they'd be more aggressive in making sure it's spelled

Meredith *Willson's* The Music Man. (Then again, it's misspelled on the
promo CD, so...)

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Thierry]

Buzz Hauser <> wrote in message news:<v1hbvt...@corp.supernews.com>...

> ****
> A few titles that contain what I feel are Perfect Scores: not one bad song in the bunch. Not One:
> "My Fair Lady", "Gypsy", "Follies", "A Little Night Music", "South Pacific", "Cabaret", "West Side Story", "The Sound Of Music" (1959), "Bye Bye Birdie"(1960), "How To Succeed", "She Loves Me", "Company", "Mack and Mabel".

> Add. Subtract. Debate. Discuss. Laugh. Cry. Share.

Well, since no one else has mentioned them, I have to add THE CAT &
THE FIDDLE, I MARRIED AN ANGEL and JUBILEE as three scores that I
think are "perfect."

FOLLIES -- would have to agree with some that "The Right Girl" is a
show-stopping (in a bad way) clunker.

And MACK & MABEL is mitigated for me by the annoying "Big Time," which
is cheesey and period-wrong, to boot (there was no "Big Time" for them
to sing about, movie-wise, in 1912. There were no movie stars yet to
be inspired by, and taking a chance on movie-making as a career was a
huge risk -- and THAT's what the song should've been about!)

I agree about KISMET sans "He's in Love" and would add 110 IN THE
SHADE sans the fun (but annoying-to-many) "Little Red Hat."

Thierry

[Steve Newport]

Worse than "Little Red Hat" is "The Hungry Men."

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Sat, Jan 11, 2003, 1:48pm (EST-3)
From: mairzy...@sbcglobal.net (Thierry)

Well, since no one else has mentioned them, I have to add THE CAT & THE

FIDDLE, I MARRIED AN ANGEL and JUBILEE. I agree about KISMET sans "He's

in Love" and would add 110 IN THE SHADE sans the fun (but
annoying-to-many) "Little Red Hat."

[abe hornberg]

Buzz buzzed:

>I'd include "Carousel" but the one minor thing that
>stops me is that, after seeing the 1994 revival, I feel
>that 'Jigger' shouldn't sing anything. At All.

Oh dear. You just reminded me of poor Malkovich croaking his way through
Blow High... in college back in '76.

In the Armstrong Circle Theatre TV production, the song was reduced (for
running time considerations) to the refrain, sung by a chorus of men.
That was catchy. Cameron phrases the sleaziness of the song's
implications very well in the record album of the movie, although it's
just as well it was cut from the actual picture.

>"More I Cannot Wish You" - Pretty but Clunk!

Er, can we agree to disagree about the Clunk part?

abe hornberg

"If you fancy it, there it is, in your eye. If not, be it his that finds
it."

[Steve Newport]

The TV Soundtrack has Pernell Roberts singing "Blow High" bu not
"Stonecutters." Same with Jerry Orbach on the Lincoln Center recording.
OTOH, Mitchell got to do the latter. They also gave him a couple of
lines in "Clambake." The Alfred Drake recording uses the six principals
(no chorus) only in "Clambake."

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 10:22am
(EST-1) From: jw...@webtv.net (abe hornberg)
In the Armstrong Circle Theatre TV production of CAROUSEL the song "Blow
High, Blow Low" was reduced (for running time considerations) to the
refrain, sung by a chorus of men. Cameron Mitchell phrases the

sleaziness of the song's implications very well in the record album of

the movie, although it was cut from the actual picture.

[Beb11572]

>The TV Soundtrack has Pernell Roberts singing "Blow High" bu not
>"Stonecutters." Same with Jerry Orbach on the Lincoln Center recording.

Was "Stonecutters" actually cut from either production (?!), or is it just not
on the recordings?

[Steve Newport]

It was not in the TV version as I recall. I don't know about Lincoln
Center.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 9:40pm (EST+5)
From: beb1...@aol.com (Beb11572)

Was "Stonecutters" actually cut from either production (?!), or is it
just not
on the recordings?

================================
MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

[Archypoet]

I'm going to add some musicals to this thread that I think have scores that fit
them perfectly--

On The Town (even So Long, Baby fits the show, even though it's not a great
song)
Camelot
Jesus Christ Superstar (can we count British musicals?)
Oliver! (I think, for the most part, the score really does fit the story, even
though the book isn't so good---maybe one exception is the stupid reprise of
Where Is Love? for Mrs. Bedwin)
What about Annie? I don't remember the score well enough to point out its weak
parts. Now what do you think about Forum? Does "That'll Show Him" disqualify
it? Or Sunday in the Park With George? Or La Cage Aux Folles, where all the
songs seem to fit the plot well, even if they aren't all great.

let's have some new discussion.

Ryan

[Archypoet]

I must disagree with Now I Have Everything being a clunker. I love it...one of
my favorite parts of the OCR, and probably the show, if it's done well.

Ryan

[Beb11572]

>>"More I Cannot Wish You" - Pretty but Clunk!
>
>Er, can we agree to disagree about the Clunk part?

When played and sung correctly, it is not clunky at all. It is, however, VERY
clunky when the music director makes it an aggressive 6/8. I know it's marked
"6/8," but it should have an easy "2" feeling nonetheless, as indicated on the
OCR. The other way (with a pounding "YAtata YAtata YAtata YAtata"...) robs the
song of all its beauty and tenderness.

[Archypoet]

What is MOLM? I forget the meaning of the abbreviation.

Ryan

[Archypoet]

I'm listening to this old MCA cassette tape I have of Oklahoma! since I don't
feel like going to my room to get the CD (and it's shorter, without Lonely Room
and Scandal/Outrage). But I would this score is pretty perfect. Even
Scandal/Outrage is a song that fits the character well, even though it's short.
What about The King And I, though? Does Western People Funny make it less than
perfect? That song tells the story well. The Royal Bangkok Academy also
does...so I don't know.

What recordings are Geraniums In The Winder on? And what is Perpetual
Anticipation?

I don't the score to Carousel that well, obviously, even though I love it.

But I would say Flower Drum Song also has a score with no bad songs, and one
that fits the show. Even Gliding Through My Memoree (and "You be the rock/I'll
be the roll") aren't that bad.

Ryan

[Archypoet]

It's not a Broadway show, but THE FANTASTICKS is definitely a perfect score.
Every song fits the plot beautifully, and is lovely.

Ryan

[Meron Lavie]

I know I'm putting myself in a small minority, but I think the *music* of
"Little Girls" is not much, although *the lyrics* are pretty good.

Lavie

"Archypoet" <arch...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030109151700...@mb-fb.aol.com...

[Meron Lavie]

Man of La Mancha.

And I think abbreviations are somewhat overused in this forum.

Lavie

"Archypoet" <arch...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20030110210936...@mb-ft.aol.com...

[srrne...@webtv.net]

Along with "Miracle of Miracles" and "Matchmaker." This score could use
two or three *more* show tunes, since the book is still defintely
Musical COMEDY. (When done correctly.)

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Wed, Jan 8, 2003, 6:52pm (EST+5)
From: arch...@aol.com (Archypoet)

==================
Steve Newport

[srrne...@webtv.net]

FLOWER DRUM has "Fan Tan Fannie."
"Perpetual" is from A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC, "Geraniums" is on the Alfred
Drake studio recording, and the recent revisal recordings.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Thu, Jan 9, 2003, 5:01am (EST+5)
From: arch...@aol.com (Archypoet)

What about The King And I, though? Does Western People Funny make it

less than perfect? The Royal Bangkok Academy also does...so I don't

know. What recordings are Geraniums In The Winder on? And what is
Perpetual Anticipation?

I would say Flower Drum Song also has a score with no bad songs...Ryan

==================
Steve Newport

[John Baxindine]

beb1...@aol.com (Beb11572) wrote in message news:<20030112120437...@mb-mo.aol.com>...

I'm astonished that anyone would even bring up the notion. A music
director would have to be a bloody idiot to conduct that song in an
"aggressive 6."

John

[Bill]

Steve Newport, re: FIDDLER: << This score could use two or three *more*

show tunes, since the book is still defintely Musical COMEDY. (When done
correctly.) >>

................
Agreed. And it DID, in it's pre-Broadway run in Detroit. Some very good,
exciting stuff.

Drumm

:::::::::::::
"Shut up," he explained.

[Unknown]

arch...@aol.com (Archypoet) writes: > It's not a Broadway show, but THE

> FANTASTICKS is definitely a perfect score. Every song fits the plot beautifully,
> and is lovely.
> Ryan

****
Hmmmm, you're right! And I *did* this show 138 years ago, as Matt. Tough
songs! Looks easy but, for a non-singer, it was Hard. I somehow got through
it. Lovely score.

Buzz
****

[Unknown]

> "Archypoet" <arch...@aol.com> wrote in message: > I'm going to add some

> musicals to this thread that I think have scores that fit them perfectly--

****
> > Camelot

Almost. There's a reason why they cut "Fie On Goodness!" although they
should have kept "Take Me To The Fair".

> > Jesus Christ Superstar
I *HATE* JCS so my opinion can't count.

> > Oliver!
"My Name" - Clunk! Bart should have tried a bit harder for this character;
the rest is pretty good!

> > La Cage Aux Folles
"Cocktail Counterpoint" - Herman was sleeping when he wrote this. Big Clunk!
They should have kept the song written for the father, but cut: "Have A Nice
Day". Better suited for the moment, the character, and definately more biting.

Buzz
****

[Stephen Farrow]

Steve Newport wrote:
>
> It was not in the TV version as I recall. I don't know about Lincoln
> Center.

Don't know about Lincoln Center, but it was certainly in the show at the
National (so I assume it would have been at LCT as well).

Stephen

>
> Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score
>
> Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Sun, Jan 12, 2003, 9:40pm (EST+5)
> From: beb1...@aol.com (Beb11572)
> Was "Stonecutters" actually cut from either production (?!), or is it
> just not
> on the recordings?
>
> ================================
> MSN: Cheaper Than Therapy

--
"First of all, you're going to need a live chicken and a working
knowledge of Latin..."

[Mister Newport]

There's still "Simple Joys of Maidenhood." I thought both cuts were
smart. I'd like to hear "My Name" performed properly AND with the
original orchestration. It COULD work.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Tue, Jan 14, 2003, 2:47am (EST+5)
From: (Buzz Hauser) Camelot. There's a reason why they cut "Fie On
Goodness!" although they should have kept "Take Me To The Fair". "My
Name" - Clunk! Bart should have tried a bit harder for this character..

==================
Steve Newport

[Mister Newport]

Sorry, Mr. F. Was not clear. We meant the earlier CAROUSEL recording of
the Music Theater of Lincoln Center with John Raitt, Susan Watson, and
Reid Shelton. On it, Jerry Orbach only does "Blow High."

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Mon, Jan 13, 2003, 9:52pm From:
sfa...@chass.utoronto.ca (Stephen Farrow) Don't know about Lincoln
Center, but it (Stonecutters) was certainly in the show at the National

(so I assume it would have been at LCT as well).

==================
Steve Newport

[Harlett O'Dowd]

srrne...@webtv.net wrote in message news:<20994-3E2...@storefull-2378.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> Along with "Miracle of Miracles" and "Matchmaker." This score could use
> two or three *more* show tunes, since the book is still defintely
> Musical COMEDY. (When done correctly.)

For the record, I don't dismiss "Now I Have Everything" because it's
musical comedy - I dismiss it because it's a bland song that goes
nowhere (except in the bridge) and just kinda ends - and on a forced,
ugly word/note ("for").

This is one of those songs I feel *should* have been replaced (as
opposed to cut) on the road. Interesting to note B&H attempted to
correct this in the film version but came up with something even LESS
appealing. Sadly, they simply decided to have nothing in that spot.

If B&H had continued writing, who knows, they may have revisited this
moment in one of the shows many revivals.

Maybe some day ....

[Harlett O'Dowd]

Buzz Hauser <> wrote in message news:<v26uiq4...@corp.supernews.com>...

> ****
> > > Camelot
>
> Almost. There's a reason why they cut "Fie On Goodness!" although they
> should have kept "Take Me To The Fair".

Didn't the out of town reviews (when added together) suggest cutting
every single number in act one save one?

It's a great album - some of the best show tunes ever written - but
the show stops dead for just about every one of them.

And the second act NEEDS an exciting choral number ("Guinevere" don't
cut it) and it is far superior to the Morgan Le Fay sequence - which
wasn't even recorded.

Talk about CLUNK!

> > > Oliver!
> "My Name" - Clunk! Bart should have tried a bit harder for this character;
> the rest is pretty good!

Another of those characters who just doesn't sing - and never should.
At least it's quick.

If you want bad Lionel Bart - get thee to TWANG!!

> > > La Cage Aux Folles
> "Cocktail Counterpoint" - Herman was sleeping when he wrote this. Big Clunk!
> They should have kept the song written for the father, but cut: "Have A Nice
> Day". Better suited for the moment, the character, and definately more biting.

Has this ever been recorded or been made available?

[Mister Newport]

I don't agree with you about the quality of the song, and neither did
Bert Convy apparently. With a different lyric it was originally Motel's
"Miracle" song. According to the "Making of" book, it was he who
convinced Harnick that Motel needed a more religious number so that he
could have that one. I've played Perchik three times and my performance
(of the song in particular) was mentioned very favorably by Alvin Klein
in the New York Times. I also really enjoyed singing "Why Should I Wake
Up?" *and* "Perfectly Marvelous" as Cliff in CABARET. I think Convy does
well with both on the recordings.

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Tue, Jan 14, 2003, 6:00am (EST-3)
From: chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) "Now I Have
Everything" is one of those songs I feel *should* have been replaced (as

opposed to cut) on the road. Interesting to note B&H attempted to
correct this in the film version but came up with something even LESS
appealing. Sadly, they simply decided to have nothing in that spot.

==================
Steve Newport

[Meron Lavie]

Actually, what are B&H up to these days?

Lavie

"Harlett O'Dowd" <chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote in message
news:6b3e506.03011...@posting.google.com...

[Robert Butts]

everyone it seems to me today have forgotten the outstandng and emotinal
score of A CHOURS LINE,or even the heart tugging lyics and heart
stopping musical score of LES MIS.what we have today on broadway is in
many mattesa flat out joke.shows such as ma ma mia,hairspray,dances with
vampires,truly have no placeon such a stage as broadway is meant to
be,yet they sell out.once again gypsy is returing in onemore revial with
ms. b.peters in the lead. god ho many more times must we be subject to
another rendition of everythingis coming up roses.(i think not)

thank you ,robert butts

[Harlett O'Dowd]

srrne...@webtv.net (Mister Newport) wrote in message news:<474-3E2...@storefull-2376.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> I don't agree with you about the quality of the song, and neither did
> Bert Convy apparently. With a different lyric it was originally Motel's
> "Miracle" song. According to the "Making of" book, it was he who
> convinced Harnick that Motel needed a more religious number so that he
> could have that one. I've played Perchik three times and my performance
> (of the song in particular) was mentioned very favorably by Alvin Klein
> in the New York Times. I also really enjoyed singing "Why Should I Wake
> Up?" *and* "Perfectly Marvelous" as Cliff in CABARET. I think Convy does
> well with both on the recordings.

What can I say? You've had success with the songs. Good. I don't
find them up to the standard of the rest of their respective scores.
Chocolate and vanilla.

BTW - who wrote the "making of" book - and what other making of books
are out there (other than the ALW and Disney infomercials)?

[Stephen Farrow]

Keith Garebian.

In that series, there are books on "My Fair Lady", "West Side Story",
"Gypsy", "Cabaret", "Guys and Dolls", and maybe one or two others I'm
forgetting (I don't have all of them by any means).

They're quite good, but very overpriced.

Stephen

[Mister Newport]

Still not speaking to one another after more than 30 years? (It's a
question.)

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Tue, Jan 14, 2003, 9:05pm (EST+7)
From: la...@net2vision.net.il (Meron Lavie)

Actually, what are B&H up to these days?

Lavie (Jerry Bock & Sheldon Harnick)

==================
Steve Newport

[Mister Newport]

e. e. cummings wannabes?

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Tue, Jan 14, 2003, 2:26pm From:
bbb...@webtv.net (Robert Butts)
shows such as mama mia, hairspray, dances with vampires truly have no
place on such a stage as broadway yet they sell out. once again gypsy is
returning in one more revival with ms. b. peters in the lead. god how
many more times must we be subject to...........

==================
Steve Newport

[Mister Newport]

I think Fiddler's "Anatevka" and "the Rumour" call for replacement much
more. As well as Cabaret's "Telephone Song" and, as it's been used, "I
Don't Care Much." NIHE and WSIWU may not be the best possible songs, but
they're certainly workable. The shows (and films) are less without them.
While this book is called "The Making of a Musical: Fiddler on the Roof"
(by Richard Altman, with Mervyn Kaufman) it predates and is not really
part of the overpriced (he's right) series Mr. Farrow talks about on
this thread. Also, in a book on Hillard Elkins, the producer of Golden
Boy (called "The Producer" I think) there's a lot on the painful birth
of The Rothschilds. I've got these, plus the one on Music Man. (If you
want more details let me know.)

Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Tue, Jan 14, 2003, 12:45pm
(EST-3) From: chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) <<<I don't
agree with you about the quality of the song "Now I Have Everything" and

neither did Bert Convy apparently. With a different lyric it was
originally Motel's "Miracle" song. According to the "Making of" book, it
was he who convinced Harnick that Motel needed a more religious number

so that he could have that one. I also really enjoy "Why Should I Wake
Up?" *and* "Perfectly Marvelous" in CABARET. I think Convy does well

with both on the recordings.>>>

---------------

I don't find them up to the standard of the rest of their respective

scores. BTW - who wrote the "making of" book - and what other making of
books are out there?

==================
Steve Newport

[Bill]

S. Newport: << While this book is called "The Making of a Musical:

Fiddler on the Roof" (by Richard Altman, with Mervyn Kaufman) it
predates and is not really part of the overpriced (he's right) series
Mr. Farrow talks about on this thread.>>

...........
Altman was Robbins' assistant director, and it's a terrific book. The
ones S. Farrow spoke of are not only over-priced, but offer nothing new
that has been written about elsewhere. Zadan's SONDHEIM & CO. is
indispensible (and fun), plus there was a tedious book about the trials
of BIG, and the very good book about the making of the revival of NO, NO
NANETTE; backstage histories of HAIR, SHOW BOAT, the Japanese premiere
of Harold Rome's GONE WITH THE WIND; those large, pricey coffee table
books of the Brit shows (LES MIS, PHANTOM, SAIGON) and THE PRODUCERS;
biographies of Fosse, Bennett, Prince, Robbins, Bernstein, Rodgers, and
others that offer a wealth of info on how their shows were created, and
the most indispensible book of all -- and one that's screaming for a
sequel -- Ken Mandelbaum's NOT SINCE CARRIE. And more that I can't
think of at the moment.

[Unknown]

chris.c...@worldspan.com (Harlett O'Dowd) writes: > Buzz Hauser <> wrote:

> > > > La Cage Aux Folles
> > "Cocktail Counterpoint" - Herman was sleeping when he wrote this.

> > They should have kept the song written for the father, but cut: "Have A Nice
> > Day". Better suited for the moment, the character, and definately more biting.
>
> Has this ever been recorded or been made available?

****
It wasn't on the cast recording or in the tour of "Jerry's Girls" with
Carol Channing & Andrea McArdle. However, when it reached Broadway with Chita
Rivera and Dorothy Loudon, it was Loudon who sang it. She was hysterically
funny and I thought,"Why'd they cut This?"

Buzz
****

[Harlett O'Dowd]

srrne...@webtv.net (Mister Newport) wrote in message news:<29617-3E2...@storefull-2371.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> I think Fiddler's "Anatevka" and "the Rumour" call for replacement much
> more. As well as Cabaret's "Telephone Song" and, as it's been used, "I
> Don't Care Much." NIHE and WSIWU may not be the best possible songs, but
> they're certainly workable. The shows (and films) are less without them.
> While this book is called "The Making of a Musical: Fiddler on the Roof"
> (by Richard Altman, with Mervyn Kaufman) it predates and is not really
> part of the overpriced (he's right) series Mr. Farrow talks about on
> this thread. Also, in a book on Hillard Elkins, the producer of Golden
> Boy (called "The Producer" I think) there's a lot on the painful birth
> of The Rothschilds. I've got these, plus the one on Music Man. (If you
> want more details let me know.)

Yes - can we get a list going of titles and authors going? Thanks in
advance one and all.

[Harlett O'Dowd]

srrne...@webtv.net (Mister Newport) wrote in message news:<29616-3E2...@storefull-2371.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> Still not speaking to one another after more than 30 years? (It's a
> question.)

Anyone know the story here? And for the record, I have their post SHE
LOVES ME PBS interview (with Barabara Cook) from the late 70s and
they're certainly pleasant on-camera. They even sit next to each
other and don't use BC as a buffer.

[Harlett O'Dowd]

srrne...@webtv.net (Mister Newport) wrote in message news:<29617-3E2...@storefull-2371.public.lawson.webtv.net>...

> I think Fiddler's "Anatevka" and "the Rumour" call for replacement much
> more.

What's the issue with "Anatevka"? Is it because it's not "When the
Messiah Comes"? "The Rumour" is a throwaway, presumably there to play
in-one to allow the "Far From the Home I Love" train station to be set
up behind it. Perhaps I don't mind it because it doesn't aspire to
much. It's kind of the "Quit Professor Higgins" of the show - it
barely registers on the musical radar.

> As well as Cabaret's "Telephone Song" and, as it's been used, "I
> Don't Care Much." NIHE and WSIWU may not be the best possible songs, but
> they're certainly workable.

I never said they were anything less than workable but musically are
disappointments and not up to the standard of the rest of score -
i.e., while professional jobs they dip below the standard and render
their scores less than "perfect" as this thread implies.

NIHE is workable but not the romantic wow you would want for that
character and that spot (opening act 2.) With the charactery "Do You
Love Me?" right after it, I would prefer a more soaring love ballad to
get the act moving.

But hey, B&H never asked for my input.

> The shows (and films) are less without them.

Certainly CABARET on film is not about WSIWU, but B&H felt strongly
enough about that spot in FIDDLER to write and film another song for
the spot. So if the film ended up not being about Perchik/NIHE in the
editing room, it was never that way while they filmed it.

[Parterrebox]

d one that's screaming for a
sequel -- Ken Mandelbaum's NOT SINCE CARRIE.

Well, I have an idea for a title, at least:

SINCE "NOT SINCE CARRIE"

[Noel Katz]

I think we're agreeing that it's The Rumour, not Now I Have Everything, that
stops Fiddler from being The Perfect Score.

To me, "Everything" does soar, and breaks into a triumphal march tempo at the
end, which I find unusual, and refreshing, in a love song, and perfectly in
character.

I also admire the far-more-political song written for the film, Any Day Now.
It was cut, I'm guessing because the filmmakers didn't want to get into the
hornet's nest of Russian politics. (He wants to overthrow the czar? Then
what?)

http://hometown.aol.com/noelkatz/main.html

[Mark McGee]

I have been dying to get my hands on the book about "The Music Man". Does
anyone know where it can be found? I'd be happy just to find a library that
carries it.

"Harlett O'Dowd" <chris.c...@worldspan.com> wrote in message
news:6b3e506.03011...@posting.google.com...

[Mister Newport]

At my house.

Re: MAKING OF B'way books - WAS Re: The Perfect Broadway Musical Score

Group: rec.arts.theatre.musicals Date: Wed, Jan 15, 2003, 12:18pm From:
mmc...@optonline.net (Mark McGee)

I have been dying to get my hands on the book about "The Music Man".
Does anyone know where it can be found?

==================
Showtune Steve

[Harlett O'Dowd]

noel...@aol.com (Noel Katz) wrote in message news:<20030115101347...@mb-fh.aol.com>...

> I think we're agreeing that it's The Rumour, not Now I Have Everything, that
> stops Fiddler from being The Perfect Score.
>
> To me, "Everything" does soar, and breaks into a triumphal march tempo at the
> end, which I find unusual, and refreshing, in a love song, and perfectly in
> character.

Mayne it's that ugly FOR at the end (shades of the unsingable "and all
the rest is talk" in "What's the Use of Wondrin'?") Perhaps my
expectations for this love ballad are unreasonably high ....

> I also admire the far-more-political song written for the film, Any Day Now.
> It was cut, I'm guessing because the filmmakers didn't want to get into the
> hornet's nest of Russian politics. (He wants to overthrow the czar? Then
> what?)

Very possibly - but musically it's even less interesting than NIHE.
One of the things I *like* about FIDDLER is Perchik is NOT a perfect
hero and he *is* opening Pandora's Box in regards to the Revolution.
While I think "Any Day Now" is a better *idea* for as song, NIHE,
while far from a gem, is the better number.