"Heavyside" in "Cats"
Kaz
than the first time. Why? Over the years, I have grown to love to
listen to the ALW's music. Besides, I adopted a fantastic cat from
my back yard where she had been a stray for a month.
Anyway, I was impressed with the quality of actors who did, above
all, such fantastic and individually hypnotic cat's make-ups. As
a musical, it is otherworldy warm and comfortable. Especially, the
sequence of the theater cat, Gus, was eye-poppingly beautiful and
poignant. I wished the scene a la Gilbert and Sullivan would last
a little longer, admiring the tiger costume that Gus transformed
himself into ( which is more colorful than Joseph's dream coat) and
those "King and I" Siamese cats' mice like routines. I felt as if
I were in a dream of the utmost theatrical relaxation and ecstacy.
What a change, considering the fact that, sitting in the junky
atmosphere of the Winter Garden 10 years ago, I swore myself I
would never see this show again. :)
On reading the synapsis of "Cats" and the story of how ALW and Tim
Rice came up with the musical, I have these nagging questions:
1. What is "the Heavyside Layer" where a cat is chosen to go and
be reborn? Is this term coming from some kind of literature?
I could not find it in English dictionaries.
2. Why was Grizabella chosen to go to the Heavyside? Is this
because of forgiveness like a prodigal son coming home to his
father? Or is this because she shined in singing "Memory"?
Without knowing all those Heavyside stuff, it appeared, on the
stage, that she just got old and died.
3. What did the daughter(?) of T.S.Elliot influence on them while
they were struggling to come up with the story for the
musical?
Could someone answer these questions? Thanks in advance.
Kaz :)
Louie Cole
- Valerie Eliot is the widow of the poet, not his daughter. Don't know
quite what Eliot was thinking of when he wrote about the heavyside
layer, though.
- Louie
Albert Evans
On Apr 25, 1996 22:05:08 in article <"Heavyside" in "Cats">, 'Kaz
<ku...@rbieng6.gmr.com>' wrote:
>On reading the synapsis of "Cats" and the story of how ALW and Tim
>Rice came up with the musical, I have these nagging questions:
>
>1. What is "the Heavyside Layer" where a cat is chosen to go and
>be reborn? Is this term coming from some kind of literature?
>I could not find it in English dictionaries.
The Heaviside Layer is the region of ionized gases in the lower ionosphere
which reflects long-range radio waves, making possible the long-distance
transmission of signals. It is named after the British physicist Oliver
Heaviside.
I imagine that the term tickled Eliot's poetic fancy, and he adopted it as
his name for Cat Heaven.
AE
---
Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby,
Edgy and dull,
And cut a six-inch valley through the middle of my skull.
--Bruce Springsteen
Barry Fernelius
Recently Kaz (ku...@rbieng6.gmr.com) had a Cats question:
> On reading the synapsis of "Cats" and the story of how ALW and Tim
> Rice came up with the musical, I have these nagging questions:
> 1. What is "the Heavyside Layer" where a cat is chosen to go and
> be reborn? Is this term coming from some kind of literature?
> I could not find it in English dictionaries.
Oliver Heaviside (1850-1925) was an English physicist and electrical
theorist. He did important work on electromagnetism and vector analysis.
In 1902, Heaviside predicted that there was a conducting layer in the
atmosphere which allowed radio waves to follow the Earth's curvature.
This layer in the atmosphere is called the Heaviside layer.
If you want to read more about Oliver Heaviside, take a look at the
article in the June 1990 issue of Scientific American.
Best Magical Wishes,
Barry R. Fernelius
ba...@fc.hp.com
Stephanie Sanborn
>> 1. What is "the Heavyside Layer" where a cat is chosen to go and
>> be reborn? Is this term coming from some kind of literature?
>> I could not find it in English dictionaries.
there is a snippet of a poem T.S. Eliot wrote saying that the Heaviside
layer is up "past the Waldorf (I think, don't have the book here) Hotel, up
to the Heavyside side layer" and that that is where a cat is reborn to a
new life, to begin again. Grizabella is chosen to go to the Heavyside Layer
because she has finished on earth, made her amends and reformed, and there
is nothing left for her here...
Stephanie
.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Red red red red Red red orange Red red orange
Orange pick up blue Pick up red Pick up orange
From the blue-green blue-green Blue-green circle
On the violet diagonal Di-ag-ag-ag-ag-ag-o-nal-nal
Yellow comma yellow comma
Numnum num numnumnum Numnum num...
.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Angelique
In article <1996Apr26.0...@leeds.ac.uk>, li...@library.leeds.ac.uk (Louie Cole) wrote:
>Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.musicals
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>From: li...@library.leeds.ac.uk (Louie Cole)
>Subject: Re: "Heavyside" in "Cats"
>Message-ID: <1996Apr26.0...@leeds.ac.uk>
>Reply-To: li...@library.leeds.ac.uk (Louie Cole)
>NNTP-Posting-Host: lib_pc148.leeds.ac.uk
>Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:56:42 +0100 (BST)
>References: <1996042522...@world.std.com>
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>Status: O
I believe I am correct in this: the Heavyside Layer is another name for the
ionosphere ( layer) above the earth - it is named after the scientist who
discovered that such a wonder as the ionosphere existed: Oliver Heavyside.
Angelique
Kaz
Albert Evans wrote:
> --
> The Heaviside Layer is the region of ionized gases in the lower ionosphere
> which reflects long-range radio waves, making possible the long-distance
> transmission of signals. It is named after the British physicist Oliver
> Heaviside.
>
> I imagine that the term tickled Eliot's poetic fancy, and he adopted it as
> his name for Cat Heaven.
>
> AE
> ---
Now, thanks to you guys, I am looking it up in my Physics dictionary.
I would like to add a little bit more:
"The E-layer(90-150km) is also called the Heaviside layer or Heaviside-
Kennelly layer as its existence was predicted independently by Oliver
Heaviside (1850-1925) and Arthur E. Kennelly (1861-1939). This layer
reflects medium-frequency waves."
I am certain now why this term was vaguely familiar to me. In the Laplace
Transformation section of the math book I used, there is "the Heaviside
Expansion Theorems". I am sure this is also coming from the same physicist
(although, I am not 100% sure).
BTW, sorry I made a mistake saying Tim Rice. It is Trevor Nunn.
Everything came together now. Valerie Eliot, T.S. Eliot's widow handed
a note by T.S. Eliot that described Grizabella's death and being reborn
at Heavyside Layer to Trevor Nunn. Eliot did not include it in "the
Old Possum 's Book of Practical Cats" because it would be too upsetting
for children. Nunn took it as inspiration for the major plot for "Cats"
instead. Then, "Memory" was born.
Now, I can sleep peacefully dreaming of Gus, Mungojerrie, Rumpleteaser,
Grizabella, ... and, of course, the fantastic Heavyside Layer.
I wish I could go there and be reborn smart.
Kaz :)
Aminta
> there is a snippet of a poem T.S. Eliot wrote saying that the Heaviside
> layer is up "past the Waldorf (I think, don't have the book here) Hotel, up
> to the Heavyside side layer" and that that is where a cat is reborn to a
Up up up past the RUSSEL hotel. :)
Aminta
Jen Bogdanski
In article <1996042522...@world.std.com>, Kaz
<ku...@rbieng6.gmr.com> wrote:
>
> 3. What did the daughter(?) of T.S.Elliot influence on them while
> they were struggling to come up with the story for the
> musical?
Don't know where you're getting this Tim Rice stuff from --- other than
an attempt at "Memory" which was discarded, he didn't have anythign to do
with it.
Anyway, as someone has already said, Valerie was T.S. Eliot's wife (his
second). Andrew and Trevor Nunn were trying to find something to use as a
plot because otherwise they just had a bunch of songs about cats. Valerie
showed Andrew an un-published poem called "Grizabella The Glamour Cat",
which had remained unpublished because T.S. thought it was too depressing
for children. Anyway, they work the plot around Grizabella and her
redemption. (BTW, I haven't been able to figure out the Heaviside/reborn
stuff either -- it's like she gets selected to have a new life but she has
to die first !?!)
Jen
Faith Burwasser
Jen Bogdanski (jbog...@itsmail1.hamilton.edu) wrote:
: In article <1996042522...@world.std.com>, Kaz
: <ku...@rbieng6.gmr.com> wrote:
: >
: > 3. What did the daughter(?) of T.S.Elliot influence on them while
: > they were struggling to come up with the story for the
: > musical?
: Anyway, they work the plot around Grizabella and her
: redemption. (BTW, I haven't been able to figure out the Heaviside/reborn
: stuff either -- it's like she gets selected to have a new life but she has
: to die first !?!)
I guess it's sorta like reincarnation...?
-Faith :)
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"If you believe, then in your heart you'll know
No one can change the path that you must go"
burw...@mail.sas.upenn.edu * Fait...@aol.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Louis Paul Manfra
On Sat, 27 Apr 1996, Jen Bogdanski wrote:
> Don't know where you're getting this Tim Rice stuff from --- other than
> an attempt at "Memory" which was discarded, he didn't have anythign to do
> with it.
> Jen
I read part of the lyrics that Tim whipped out in like a day or
something and thought that they were much much better than Nunn's. I
wouldn't call it an attempt. Webber asked him to do it and he did, then
Webber turned around and excepted Nunn's final draft of lyrics. Nunn
wasn't able to just write the words and stick with them, it took him a
long time to come up with the final result, and I still think that Rice's
words were by far better.
Streetlights and the darkness between them...
Louis
Aminta
> > Jen
> I read part of the lyrics that Tim whipped out in like a day or
> something and thought that they were much much better than Nunn's. I
> wouldn't call it an attempt. Webber asked him to do it and he did, then
> Webber turned around and excepted Nunn's final draft of lyrics. Nunn
> wasn't able to just write the words and stick with them, it took him a
> long time to come up with the final result, and I still think that Rice's
> words were by far better.
>
> Streetlights and the darkness between them...
And you know why Rice agreed to try a lyric? He originally had said no..
but then the original Grizabella broke her ankle or something, and Elaine
Paige took over the role... and therefore, Rice decided to give the
lyrics a swing... unfortunately, Nunn had pretty much come up with a
final set of his lyrics...
Stephanie Sanborn
>: -- it's like she gets selected to have a new life but she has
>: to die first !?!)
>
>I guess it's sorta like reincarnation...?
gets to choose the cat who is reborn because he's the oldest and has lived
the most lives...I wonder, is he reborn when he goes up to the Heaviside
Layer with the chosen cat each time?
Matthew Murray
On Thu, 25 Apr 1996, Kaz wrote:
I'm not an expert, but I'll try.
> On reading the synapsis of "Cats" and the story of how ALW and Tim
> Rice came up with the musical, I have these nagging questions:
>
> 1. What is "the Heavyside Layer" where a cat is chosen to go and
> be reborn? Is this term coming from some kind of literature?
> I could not find it in English dictionaries.
It most certainly does come out of English literature. In fact,
maybe you've heard of the book: Old Possom's Book of Practical Cats? ;)
> 2. Why was Grizabella chosen to go to the Heavyside? Is this
> because of forgiveness like a prodigal son coming home to his
> father? Or is this because she shined in singing "Memory"?
> Without knowing all those Heavyside stuff, it appeared, on the
> stage, that she just got old and died.
My personal feeling is that she was chosen to go there so that she
could start her life over. Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but everyone
should have the opportunity to rectify those mistakes and begin anew.
That's my interpretation--I'm sure that of others will differ.
> 3. What did the daughter(?) of T.S.Elliot influence on them while
> they were struggling to come up with the story for the
> musical?
It is my understanding, though I might very well be wrong, that it
was T.S. Eliot's widow who presented Andrew Lloyd Webber and company with
the poem entitled "Grizabella the Glamour Cat," which T.S. Eliot
originally wanted for inclusion in the book, but felt was too sad and
downbeat for children. It provided the basis for the story, and the rest,
as they say, is history.
================================================================================
Matthew A. Murray
mmu...@wsu.edu
http://www.wsu.edu:8000/~i9717029
Actor - Singer - German Speaker - Computer Game Player - Babylon 5 Fanatic
"I have always been here..."
Ambassador Kosh, Babylon 5
================================================================================
Angelique
In article <v02130500ada83db91d3b@DialupEudora>, slsa...@ucdavis.edu (Stephanie Sanborn) wrote:
>Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.musicals
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>From: slsa...@ucdavis.edu (Stephanie Sanborn)
>Subject: Re: "Heavyside" in "Cats"
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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>
>>: -- it's like she gets selected to have a new life but she has
>>: to die first !?!)
>>
>>I guess it's sorta like reincarnation...?
> Of course- cats do have nine lives, remember? And Old Deuteronomy
>gets to choose the cat who is reborn because he's the oldest and has lived
>the most lives...I wonder, is he reborn when he goes up to the Heaviside
>Layer with the chosen cat each time?
>Stephanie
No, Old Deuteronomy is not reborn each time. For one thing, he does not go
up to the Heaviside Layer - he only takes Grizabella part of the way: then
she transfers from the tire for the final journey (in her little 'spacecraft'
to the Heaviside Layer (or, in the original London production, to walk up
the staircase to the Heaviside Layer).
Angelique
Keith Bauer
Kaz <ku...@rbieng6.gmr.com> wrote:
> What is "the Heavyside Layer" where a cat is chosen to go and be reborn?
I'll answer this briefly here. If you'd like to discuss CATS in detail
we can do that over direct email (and I love to discuss CATS!)
The show is based on poems written by T.S. Eliot in the 1930's for his
Godchildren. At one time or another, it appears, Mr. Eliot had to explain
to one of his Godchildren what happens when his pet cat died. People go
to heaven, where to cats go? It would appear that Mr. Eliot came up with
an elegant solution by allowing that cats go to the Heaviside Layer to
be reborn (after all cats have 9 lives......7 in Europe). At the time,
the Physicist Robert Heaviside had recently first described the ionosphere
so it was naturally referred to as the Heaviside layer. As a side note,
in the early days of radio, radio waves were also often referred to as
"Heaviside waves" as they bounced around the Heaviside Layer. Unfortunately
Mr. Eliot was not quite correct on the order of things:
Up, up, up, past the Jellicle moon,
Up, up, up, to the Heaviside Layer.
We'll forgive him for the scientific errors!
> Why was Grizabella chosen to go to the Heavyside?
Actually this is in answer to both questions two and three. Andrew Lloyd
Webber got the idea to try something different and set exisitng verse to
music. As he LOVED the T.S. Eliot poems as a child they naturally came to
mind, especially as they are such rhythmic poems. He went about setting them
to music and presented them at his Sydmonton Estate. He invited T.S. Eliot's
widow, Valerie Eliot, to attend. At the time, there was NO way to tie the
poems together and there wasn't enough material for CATS to be a complete two
act show, so ALW had planned on CATS being one act of a two part show (a la
Song & Dance). Valerie Eliot was so impressed with the work that she presented
ALW with some unpublished material which included 8 lines of a poem about
Grizabella The Glamour Cat. Mr. Eliot had decided not to complete the poem as
it was turning out much too sad for children so he abandoned the piece. This,
and the Heaviside Layer, gave ALW just what was needed to give the show a VERY
thin story line and make it a full two act show. Grizabella had obviously been
quite the talk of the town, after all she was "The Glamour Cat". She became
quite the opposite, going from top cat to the down and out, a sad event for
anyone. The hope of redemption and rebirth is shown here whether figuratively
or really. The only other cat who had come to this end was possibly Asparagus
so perhaps he will be selected at the next Jellicle ball!
I'm surprised you didn't ask where Jellicle and Pollicle came from since
everyone asks that one. I have heard two references to this. Both these
terms come from T.S. Eliot's grandmother who referred to dogs as "Pollicle
dogs" and cats as Jellicle cats. Pollicle refers to "Poor Little" dogs
and Jellicle refers to "Angelical cats" or "Good Little" cats.
I'll be glad to help further if you like!
Keith Bauer jell...@research.att.com
Jen Bogdanski
> > Of course- cats do have nine lives, remember? And Old Deuteronomy
> >gets to choose the cat who is reborn because he's the oldest and has lived
> >the most lives...I wonder, is he reborn when he goes up to the Heaviside
> >Layer with the chosen cat each time?
> >Stephanie
>
> No, Old Deuteronomy is not reborn each time. For one thing, he does not go
> up to the Heaviside Layer - he only takes Grizabella part of the way: then
> she transfers from the tire for the final journey (in her little 'spacecraft'
> to the Heaviside Layer (or, in the original London production, to walk up
> the staircase to the Heaviside Layer).
>
I agree with your staging, but I think what Stephanie was referring to
about Deuteronomy's lives is the lyric that says "He's a cat who has lived
many lives in succsession."
Jen
Tim Gowen
Aminta wrote:
> > Streetlights and the darkness between them...
>
Paige took over the role... and therefore, Rice decided to give the
> lyrics a swing... unfortunately, Nunn had pretty much come up with a
> final set of his lyrics...
Well, Nunn was also the director so he was hardly an impartial judge of his own lyrics. He got
the 'burned out ends of smoky days' and some other stuff from Eliot's other poetry.
I can't remember the rest of the verse as quoted above, but the last line is:
none forgotten, no not one.
Which just doesn't work the same as 'let the mem'ry live again'. I reckon Nunn's lyrics were
better.
Tim
Jen Bogdanski
In article <DqMHF...@research.att.com>, jell...@research.att.com (Keith
Bauer) wrote:
> I'm surprised you didn't ask where Jellicle and Pollicle came from since
> everyone asks that one. I have heard two references to this. Both these
> terms come from T.S. Eliot's grandmother who referred to dogs as "Pollicle
> dogs" and cats as Jellicle cats. Pollicle refers to "Poor Little" dogs
> and Jellicle refers to "Angelical cats" or "Good Little" cats.
Thanks for adding that! I knew about it, but I've spent the past few
weeks (no, really!) trying to remember the Jellicle one. All I could
recall was "poor little".
Jen :)
Cyberway 2
In a generally excellent reply,
jell...@research.att.com (Keith Bauer) wrote:
many things, including:
> It would appear that Mr. Eliot came up with
>an elegant solution by allowing that cats go to the Heaviside Layer to
>be reborn (after all cats have 9 lives......7 in Europe).
Ummm... well I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but cats definitely
have 9 lives in England!
>I'm surprised you didn't ask where Jellicle and Pollicle came from since
>everyone asks that one. I have heard two references to this. Both these
>terms come from T.S. Eliot's grandmother who referred to dogs as "Pollicle
>dogs" and cats as Jellicle cats. Pollicle refers to "Poor Little" dogs
>and Jellicle refers to "Angelical cats" or "Good Little" cats.
Almost, but I believe the references came from the children for whom
Elliott wrote the poems. The girl was unable to say Dear little cats
and Poor little dogs - it came out as Jellicle Cats and Pollicle Dogs,
the names which stuck in the poetry. I may of course be wrong on
this, but I've seen this same story in a couple of pretty reliable
sources.
Andrew