SINKING SHIPS
DA...@cc.usu.edu
the only one that sees STTNG as a dying show. The recent Paramount news
release that Sinner and Dorn were leaving also seems to bear this out. They
were the two best characters around which some half way decent episodes were
based. For the most part it seems that all the episodes are going nowhere.
there is no action or conflict (I don't need open warfare but a little conflict
or interaction between the characters would be welcomed).
I would not have mind living in a TOS world but STTNG's world is not at all to
my liking. They let beast walk away after killing hundreds. They do not resolve
anything. They simply walk away. The recent episodes remind me of Gilda Radnor
skits with a big speel on something or other and then a NEVER MIND.
They are also stretching believablity to the limit. In the hunted there is no
way that they should not have been able to see the escapee...if not electrical
impulses they should have at least seen the motion.
The hookey way they got out of the trap in the nutral zone stretches the
plot to a thread...at least Kirk's Corbomite manuever was some sort of
escape...the Kligon decloaking was pure bull....especially after the fact
that no federation vessels were within days and as we all know the Klingons
are now part of the federation.
thsee shows seem awful bad for a 1.4 million dollar budget that's 6 times the
budget of TSO episodes with about 1/20 of the plot. For the most part these
STTNG episodes are very forgetable.....even watching them 2 or three times
give no real memorable moments.............................................
Alien Nation even with it's cops format has more action and interplay among
it's regulars. Isn't it about time somewhat at Paramount lays down the law
and says get some decent scrips or fire the producer.
The TOS episodes might have preach at the viewers but at least there was a
decent story attached the STTNG episodes are just sermons with a very dull
story attached...............
It may be my imagination but there are very few good writers around anymore
(at least in TV) note how awful the MATLOCK and PERRY MASDON stories are.
THe suspects are all contrived with motives that are forced, nothing like
the old PERRY MASON or ELLERY QUEEN's where the motives were obvious.
Let's hope the STTNG producers take a look at BEAUTY and the Beast to see
what drama can be added to a worn out plot,,,,,,,,,,,Remember STTNG should
be full of new IDEAS.
Dave the SCI-FI collector
Eric C. Garrison
>The hookey way they got out of the trap in the nutral zone stretches the
>plot to a thread...at least Kirk's Corbomite manuever was some sort of
>escape...the Kligon decloaking was pure bull..
They implied how and why the Klingons got there(well, not clear motives, but
a motive none the less)
There is a scene in the Defector where Worf tells Picard that some Klingon
ships had heard about his problem and wished to discuss something.
IMHO, they were probably running silent in the area (The federation does not
know the location of all the Klingon ships, witness this brought up in the
episode where Riker is on the Klingon ship, and they know a heading and speed,
but are not sure where they will be patrolling), or they heard about the chase,
and caame to see if there was a good fight in it for them.
buttt that's just MHO.
A. Hasara
Has...@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
Brandon G. Lovested
> thsee shows seem awful bad for a 1.4 million dollar budget that's 6 times the
> budget of TSO episodes with about 1/20 of the plot.
> Alien Nation even with it's cops format has more action and interplay among
> it's regulars. Isn't it about time somewhat at Paramount lays down the law
> and says get some decent scrips or fire the producer.
>
brain.
Bang, bang.
> Let's hope the STTNG producers take a look at BEAUTY and the Beast to see
> what drama can be added to a worn out plot,
Your show has been cancelled - again.
Something about ratings...gee, I don't know.
+ * +
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- - - - -------======<<<<<{{{{{{[[[[[[ BRANDONIUS bran...@amadeus.WR.TEK.COM
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Dave Kegel
>The hookey way they got out of the trap in the nutral zone stretches the
>plot to a thread...at least Kirk's Corbomite manuever was some sort of
>escape...the Kligon decloaking was pure bull....especially after the fact
>that no federation vessels were within days and as we all know the Klingons
>are now part of the federation.
>
It is my understanding that the Klingons are allied with the Federation, not
members. And if they are members, I don't believe that they are in Starfleet.
Is this true? If they are part of Starfleet then due the Klingon Birds of Prey
have little Federation emblems on them now?
Dave
Mark Runyan
>Noting the recent comments in star.trek.recs.arts it appears that I am not
>the only one that sees STTNG as a dying show. The recent Paramount news
>release that Sinner and Dorn were leaving also seems to bear this out.
What "recent Paramount news release"? Can you give a visible and reliable
location for this "news release"? I'll even accept "STARLOG" as a
place. Until someone provides a verification, this "news release" is just
a rumor.
>I would not have mind living in a TOS world but STTNG's world is not at all to
>my liking. They let beast walk away after killing hundreds. They do not resolve
>anything. They simply walk away. The recent episodes remind me of Gilda Radnor
>skits with a big speel on something or other and then a NEVER MIND.
Even considering the fact that I have let a large number of spelling,
grammatical, and phrase errors go by, I can not parse the above paragraph.
It appears to be meaningful to you, however. My *best* interpretation is
you are not happy with the non-violent resolutions used in TNG, especially
in "The Hunted". Your opinion is noted, but *I* don't agree with it.
>They are also stretching believablity to the limit. In the hunted there is no
>way that they should not have been able to see the escapee...
The sensors that everyone complains about didn't even exist in TOS. Now
they are there as a "help", not necessarily a security routine. Perhaps
TNG personnel are just as sensitive about their privacy as modern day folk.
The sensors couldn't detect the intruder, though each of us could think
of a dozen ways we could have searched the ship. It just may not have been
possible to calibrate in the time they had.
>The hookey way they got out of the trap in the nutral zone stretches the
>plot to a thread...at least Kirk's Corbomite manuever was some sort of
>escape...the Kligon decloaking was pure bull....especially after the fact
>that no federation vessels were within days and as we all know the Klingons
>are now part of the federation.
Hmmm? If I parse the above correctly, I read that you see the resolution
of "The Defector" as unreasonable. First, *are* the Klingons of the
Federation? Or are they allies? Second, Klingon ships are not necessarily
Star Fleet ships. And, third, unlike you, I found the ending to be not
only reasonable, but surprising and stunning.
>thsee shows seem awful bad for a 1.4 million dollar budget that's 6 times the
>budget of TSO episodes with about 1/20 of the plot. ...
I disagree with your opinion. That doesn't mean I want you to change it.
It just means that there are at least two opinions on the net. The only
thing I challenge in your posting is reference to a "news release" that
doesn't seem to exist. When that "news release" is available, please
tell us where to find it.
Mark Runyan
Just another theatre geek...
>the only one that sees STTNG as a dying show. The recent Paramount news
>release that Sinner and Dorn were leaving also seems to bear this out.
No offense, but this was a flatout unbelievable rumor.
Now I'd believe Spiner might leave; he's done a very good piece of work
with Data that he can rest his laurels on. But not Dorn. He's only
beginning to get more work, and he hasn't nearly touched the potential
in the character.
Economically, this is far from a dying show. If you can believe
some reports, they're already showing a profit---that's ASTOUNDING for
any first run drama, since very few shows make any money until they are
fairly well along in syndication. From Paramount's viewpoint, TNG is
far from a sinking ship.
They
>were the two best characters around which some half way decent episodes were
>based. For the most part it seems that all the episodes are going nowhere.
>there is no action or conflict (I don't need open warfare but a little conflict
Again, no offense, but you're just not recognizing the conflict
that is there. For example:
ENSIGNS OF COMMAND: Data vs. himself, challenging his own self
perceived, self-imposed limits.
WHO WATCHES THE WATCHERS: Picard's devotion the Prime Directive
vs. his loyalty to his crew.
THE BONDING: The desire to assuage pain vs. the recognition
of the need to accept its existence.
THE ENEMY: The nature of being an enemy---and it isn't in the
Geordie-Romulan relationship....
plus many, many more....
Granted, that the conflict and resolution have not always been
handled well in these shows, but a) they are quite apparent and evident and
b) they are being handled about as well as any other hourlong drama show
(with the exception of most of the Bocchco shows....)....
>
>The hookey way they got out of the trap in the nutral zone stretches the
>plot to a thread...at least Kirk's Corbomite manuever was some sort of
>escape...the Kligon decloaking was pure bull....especially after the fact
>that no federation vessels were within days and as we all know the Klingons
>are now part of the federation.
Were you watching?? The ending was bad, NOT becuase it was hokey,
but because the ROmulans got exactly what they wanted, but chickened out
in the end. They got an incursion in the Zone, they flushed out a traitor
but didn't follow through.
Using Kling cruisers is exactly the type of thing a TOS show might
have done (in the proper situation). And what was far away were Starbase
reinforcements, not necessarily Fed ships....
>thsee shows seem awful bad for a 1.4 million dollar budget that's 6 times the
>budget of TSO episodes with about 1/20 of the plot. For the most part these
>STTNG episodes are very forgetable.....even watching them 2 or three times
>give no real memorable moments.............................................
Either that, or you just don't like the kind of drama they
are giving you... I'll match WATCHERS, ENSIGNS and MEASURE OF A MAN with
ANY TOS show. All three are the equal of the TOS Hugo-nominated episodes,
and I have to say that they are NOT exceptions....
Again, in comparison to other studio productions, TNG is, at
worse, run of the mill. At times, it has been very, very good.
And let's get off the budget bit, ok? TNG has six times the
budget of TOS, but then again, >>ALL<< TV budgets are five to eight
times what they were in the 60s. Remember, such shows as WISEGUY are
running $1.1-$1.3 million---and that's low becuase they produce in
British Columbia.
>The TOS episodes might have preach at the viewers but at least there was a
>decent story attached the STTNG episodes are just sermons with a very dull
>story attached...............
Sorry, but TOS was frequently just as contrived; methinks you're
looking through nostalgia-warped vision.....
>It may be my imagination but there are very few good writers around anymore
>(at least in TV) note how awful the MATLOCK and PERRY MASDON stories are.
>THe suspects are all contrived with motives that are forced, nothing like
>the old PERRY MASON or ELLERY QUEEN's where the motives were obvious.
Hmm. Now I >KNOW< you're being affected by nostalgia.....
>Let's hope the STTNG producers take a look at BEAUTY and the Beast to see
>what drama can be added to a worn out plot,,,,,,,,,,,Remember STTNG should
>be full of new IDEAS.
--
Roger Tang, Member
Uncle Bonsai Memorial Fan Club
American Flag Disposal Unit #3245, Chonk Moonhunters chapter
gwan...@blake.acs.washington.edu
Robert J. Granvin
>: some reports, they're already showing a profit---that's ASTOUNDING for
>: any first run drama, since very few shows make any money until they are
>: fairly well along in syndication. From Paramount's viewpoint, TNG is
>: far from a sinking ship.
>
>that the most imaginative stories are really the accounting department
>claiming the the original Star Trek series has yet to make a profit after
>almost 30 years of syndication! But then they also say that "Coming to
>America" has yet to break even.
I would guess that common sense would be a reasonable source.
Whether it is making a profit today, or will in the future is almost
immaterial. No sane person, persons, or corporation produces a product
that is not pnanned to at least generate a profit within a set
timetable.
(There are the loss-leader exceptions, but it would seem very very
unlikely that TNG would be classified or planned as a loss-leader).
--
________Robert J. Granvin________ INTERNET: r...@sialis.mn.org
____National Computer Systems____ BITNET: rjg%sialis...@nic.mr.net
__National Information Services__ UUCP: ...amdahl!bungia!sialis!rjg
"History teaches us that we learn nothing from history."
Kenneth Ng
: Economically, this is far from a dying show. If you can believe
: some reports, they're already showing a profit---that's ASTOUNDING for
: any first run drama, since very few shows make any money until they are
: fairly well along in syndication. From Paramount's viewpoint, TNG is
: far from a sinking ship.
Um, got a source for this? I recall an article critizing Paramount for saying
that the most imaginative stories are really the accounting department
claiming the the original Star Trek series has yet to make a profit after
almost 30 years of syndication! But then they also say that "Coming to
America" has yet to break even.
--
Kenneth Ng: Post office: NJIT - CCCC, Newark New Jersey 07102
uucp !andromeda!argus!ken *** NOT k...@bellcore.uucp ***
bitnet(prefered) k...@orion.bitnet
Tom Kuchar
>In article <16...@cc.usu.edu> DA...@cc.usu.edu writes:
>>Noting the recent comments in star.trek.recs.arts it appears that I am not
>>the only one that sees STTNG as a dying show. The recent Paramount news
>>release that Sinner and Dorn were leaving also seems to bear this out.
>
> ...Economically, this is far from a dying show.
> ... From Paramount's viewpoint, TNG is far from a sinking ship...
I must agree here. I watch ST-TNG in the Boston area, where it's shown
on the ABC affilaite. One of the independent stations here has an `Ask the
Mangaer' show. They said they would kill to get ST-TNG because it is so
profitable. I doubt that a manager of Boston's most commercially successful
independent station (WSBK) would `kill' to get a dying show.
Tom...
Bitent: kuchar@buasta
Internet: Kuc...@buasta.bu.edu -or- kuc...@bu-ast.bu.edu
John Pimentel
>the only one that sees STTNG as a dying show. The recent Paramount news
>release that Sinner and Dorn were leaving also seems to bear this out. They
So there is a thread here and there, and let's not forget the "Press Release"
which yet to be confirmed. Prior to this article, to which I'm responding,
there was an article on the truthfulness of Dorn/Spiner leaving from Vidiot
(aka Mike Brown) who stated that according to his contact at Paramount this
is unfounded. To me that simply means that there was no press release, thus
it is someone's version of a joke that I, personally, don't find to amussing.
If at some later time, there's such a press release, I will find it easier to
believe it if it comes from Vidiot, simply because of his credibilty on this
newsgroup.
Now as to the threads that question the reality of Star Trek and the far
fetched "treknology", we know it does not conform to the "known laws" of
science because, we know, it is make believe; so if all the same to you
let us get on with it.
The participants in this group are operating under the guidelines presented
to us by the series, the movies and the books, and it is not necessary to ask
questions on the premise that "I (meaning YOU) have been appointed to tell
these people that they are discussing possibilities about science fiction
series, and it is necessary to tell them that it's not real."
WE KNOW it's not real, but we need a forum to discuss a series that WE ALL
like and enjoy, to share notes, thoughts, ideas, to better understand the
episodes, to look at the excitement presented, and try NOT to find errors
that "VIOLATE the known laws", because violation of the "known" laws IS NOT
IMPORTANT!
For this reason, WE HAVE OUR OWN GROUP WHERE *WE* CAN TALK ABOUT
S T A R T R E K !
So, as the new reader what do you do?
Sit back and enjoy. When you have gotten over this self proclaimed position,
then join us.
---
Take care and have a good day. John.
STANDARD DISCLAIMER APPLIES.
UUCP: ...!mit-eddie!\ Internet: jp@frog
....frog!jp
......!decvax!/
Tom Frauenhofer
According to the Star Trek:Then Next Generation writer's guide (written by
Mr. Roddenberry himself), the Klingons are now members of the Federation,
and, in fact, we might see other Klingon officers in the Star Fleet. That
would be interesting to see.
Thomas V. Frauenhofer ...!rutgers!rochester!cci632!ccird7!tvf *or*
...!attctc!swamps!frau!tvf (tvf@frau, tvf@cci632) Daffy Duck Sings:
"I once knew an acrobat's daughter who swung by her teeth from a noose. 'Til
one day her bridgework gave way, and she flew through the air like a Goose!"
Brandon G. Lovested
>
> It is my understanding that the Klingons are allied with the Federation, not
> members. And if they are members, I don't believe that they are in Starfleet.
> Is this true? If they are part of Starfleet then due the Klingon Birds of Prey
> have little Federation emblems on them now?
>
>
This is a good question. I read somewhere that they are members, and that
the Klingon "Home Star" has been incorporated into the UFP symbol.
On the other hand, it has been stated in TNG that the UFP has a "treaty"
with the Klingon Empire. Perhaps this is a step in the long process
of assimulation. Sort of like the U.S. and Canada ;-)