Why mind meld with Picard
Jon W Meyer
does Sarek have a new (human) wife. Is there an "official" answer? How
about a mundane (20th century) answer?
More puzzling, to me, is the selection of Picard to mind meld with Sarek.
Sarek didn't seem to be using Picard's diplomatic skills, he was just trying
to gain the strength he needed to master his emotions long enough to
complete his mission. I would have thought that the other Vulcan (I forgot
his name) would have been the more logical mind meld partner.
Jon
Night Watchman
>I saw "Sarek" for the first time this weekend. One question I have is why
>does Sarek have a new (human) wife. Is there an "official" answer? How
>about a mundane (20th century) answer?
How about... why not?
For that matter, why does ANYONE take a second wife? Or a first for that
matter? Why should Sarek's reasons be substantially different from
anyone else's, or at least from his reason for marrying the first time?
>More puzzling, to me, is the selection of Picard to mind meld with Sarek.
>Sarek didn't seem to be using Picard's diplomatic skills, he was just trying
>to gain the strength he needed to master his emotions long enough to
>complete his mission. I would have thought that the other Vulcan (I forgot
>his name) would have been the more logical mind meld partner.
I think Picard's experience (and I'd think that it would take a LOT of
skill at controlling one's emotions to rise to command rank!) would have been
a major factor. The other Vulcan just didn't have that experience, I'd
guess.
--
Michael Rawdon
Tulane University, New Orleans, Louisiana
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: raw...@rex.cs.tulane.edu | Insert probably
Usenet: rex!rawdon.UUCP | erroneous (but amusing)
Bitnet: CS6FECU@TCSVM | quote here
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Opinions mine, typos and grammar errors someone else's
Sarah L. Winters
>does Sarek have a new (human) wife. Is there an "official" answer? How
>about a mundane (20th century) answer?
Amanda died.
>More puzzling, to me, is the selection of Picard to mind meld with Sarek.
>Sarek didn't seem to be using Picard's diplomatic skills, he was just trying
>to gain the strength he needed to master his emotions long enough to
>complete his mission.
Yep. That's just what he was doing. I rather liked the choice of
Picard, because as an 'older' man, he'd have less fiery a temper,
and so may not be *quite* as shocking to meld with in the first place.
>I would have thought that the other Vulcan (I forgot
>his name) would have been the more logical mind meld partner.
>
>Jon
Sakkath had behaved dishonorably by "helping" Sarek behind his back.
As Vulcans feel it is illogical to lie, or in this case, to not
face reality, Sarek was probably as close as possible to being
totally disgusted with the boy, and his mind might have revolted
at the thought of being with Sakkath's.
:-)!
Sarah
sa...@menolly.sr.com
Neil P. Marsh
> I saw "Sarek" for the first time this weekend. One question I have is why
> does Sarek have a new (human) wife. Is there an "official" answer? How
> about a mundane (20th century) answer?
Why not? Maybe he finds human woman a refreshing diversion.
> More puzzling, to me, is the selection of Picard to mind meld with Sarek.
> Sarek didn't seem to be using Picard's diplomatic skills, he was just trying
> to gain the strength he needed to master his emotions long enough to
> complete his mission. I would have thought that the other Vulcan (I forgot
> his name) would have been the more logical mind meld partner.
Because Picard suggested it to Sarek (though I believe it was Perrin's idea
originally -- we don't see that part). Picard could not ask anyone else to
do it, as he is responsible for the mission, and asking another Vulcan to
suffer that onslaught of emotions would an insult, don't you think?
Neil P. Marsh UUCP: <backbones>!{iuvax,pur-ee,uunet}!bsu-cs!drwho
810 W. Jackson Street <* The Ball State Science-Fiction and Fantasy Club *>
Muncie, IN 47305 (1-317-747-0023)
"You always know what's going on but you just can't be bothered to tell
anyone! TELL ME!"
-- Ace, to the Doctor, in "The Curse Of Fenric"
"Mom, I'm sorry!" -- Ace in "The Curse Of Fenric"
Jeff Abbott
>More puzzling, to me, is the selection of Picard to mind meld with Sarek.
>Sarek didn't seem to be using Picard's diplomatic skills, he was just trying
>to gain the strength he needed to master his emotions long enough to
>complete his mission. I would have thought that the other Vulcan (I forgot
>his name) would have been the more logical mind meld partner.
I agree 100%, Jon. It seems the only reason to have Picard do the mind
meld with Sarek is so Patrick Stewart can show his sensitive side. It
would have made more sense for the Vulcan aide ( I can't remember his
name) to do it, as he was already aware of Sarek's "emotional" problems.
Another good choice would have been Counselor Troi, since she is
a psychologist, has experience with telepathy, and it would have allowed
Picard to attend the negotiations.
IMHO, the use of Picard in this scene weakened the entire episode.
Jeff Abbott
________________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: I didn't do it and no one saw!
abb...@mobius.aca.mcc.com
________________________________________________________________________
Peter Scott
In article <403@.menolly.UUCP>, sa...@menolly.UUCP (Sarah L. Winters) writes:
> In article <271...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com> j...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com (Jon W Meyer) writes:
> >More puzzling, to me, is the selection of Picard to mind meld with Sarek.
> >Sarek didn't seem to be using Picard's diplomatic skills, he was just trying
> >to gain the strength he needed to master his emotions long enough to
> >complete his mission.
He should have mind-melded with Data. Now *that* would have provided
emotional control... :-)
---
This is news. This is your | Peter Scott, NASA/JPL/Caltech
brain on news. Any questions? | (p...@aristotle.jpl.nasa.gov)
psti...@pbs.org
>>I saw "Sarek" for the first time this weekend. One question I have is why
There is an interesting consequence of the mind melding in this episode. Since
Sarek did not have total control over his thoughts at the time, he could not
selectively hold back items in his memory. Years earlier he once melded minds
with Capt. Kirk (in Star Trek 3 ... which may or may not have happened
depending on current OFFICIAL mood :-)
Does this mean that Picard was indirectly exposed to some of Capt. Kirk's
thoughts ... particularly those regarding Spock?
Ward Griffiths
> I saw "Sarek" for the first time this weekend. One question I have is why
> does Sarek have a new (human) wife. Is there an "official" answer? How
> about a mundane (20th century) answer?
Well, he obviously must be a pervert, since the both marriages are
outside of species boundaries. Most people involved in that sort
of relationship these days rarely get married to their (really,
we're just good) friends, and I heard a rumour somewhere that it's
even discouraged by government and religious authorities.
--
Ward Griffiths [Judas] went and hanged himself. Matt. 27:5
Jesus said ... Go, and do though likewise. Luke 10:37
=======================================================================
This is your brain as part of this complete breakfast.
Tom Hall
>In article <271...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com>, j...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com (Jon W Meyer) writes:
>> I saw "Sarek" for the first time this weekend. One question I have is why
>> does Sarek have a new (human) wife. Is there an "official" answer? How
>> about a mundane (20th century) answer?
>
>Why not? Maybe he finds human woman a refreshing diversion.
being (and Spock's mother), may have died by this time? Remember,
Vulcans live much longer than we do; it would stand to reason that Sarek
might re-marry.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Hall University of Alberta
Fidonet: 1:342/6...@fidonet.org Edmonton, Alberta
Internet: th...@vm.ucs.ualberta.ca CANADA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Eric Brawley
If you will recall in that particular episode of TNG, Sarek was quite old.
Due to this, his mental capacity was declining rapidly due to "Bendai Syndrome"
which is a condition that sometimes occurs in Vulcans during old age.
Now, I believe he WAS using Picard's skills, because he trusted Picard.
Besides, I think it was Picard who volunteered for the mind meld.
As for Sarek's new wife, He remarried because Amanda Grayson died, and left
him a widower. Vulcans have longer life spans than humans, even in the
24th century. This is the 24th century answer, which was hinted at in the
episode, and it is apparently true.
- CEB
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"My dear friend, Data. You see things with the wonder of a child. I guess
that makes you more human than any of us!"
-- Lt. Natasha Yar, ST:TNG
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*******************************************************************************
* __ __ | "May fortune favor *
* | | |\ | | | University of N.C. at Charlotte| the foolish!" *
* |__| | \| |__ |__ Charlotte, N.C. 28223 | - J. Kirk, ST4:TVH *
* | *
* Arpa/Sura/Internet: < ta0...@unccvax.uncc.edu > | Eric 'Cub' Brawley *
*******************************************************************************
Alan EZEKIEL
>I saw "Sarek" for the first time this weekend. One question I have is why
>does Sarek have a new (human) wife. Is there an "official" answer?
My theory is that, being an ambassador, Sarek doesn't spend all that
much time on Vulcan. He probably meets thousands of humans at his
various postings in the Federation, while his contact with other
Vulcans may be limited to Embassy staffs and occasional high-ranking
dignitaries. Since he meets so many more humans, it would only be
natural that his romantic interests (seems strange to use that word
when refering to a Vulcan!) would happen to be humans.
Or perhaps (to be coldly logical about this) he finds some diplomatic
advantage in being married to a human. Imagine how hard it would be
for present-day diplomats to be really effective if they weren't
allowed to act open and friendly. An emotionless ambassador would be
a real downer at those diplomatic functions! Perhaps he has found that
a human wife is simply a valuble diplomatic and social tool.
Or perhaps she just happened to be around for his Pon'Farr... :-)
>More puzzling, to me, is the selection of Picard to mind meld with Sarek.
>Sarek didn't seem to be using Picard's diplomatic skills, he was just trying
>to gain the strength he needed to master his emotions long enough to
>complete his mission. I would have thought that the other Vulcan (I forgot
>his name) would have been the more logical mind meld partner.
I believe that Sarek warns Picard about some rather serious risks
involved in the mind-meld process. In other words, mind-melding under
these circumstances is dangerous. Picard is the only willing
volunteer for a hazardous assignment, and he is capable of doing it.
What logical purpose could be served by pressuring other, less willing
people into doing the job instead?
-- Alane --
/-----------------------------------------------------------------\
/ "These are just my opinions, | "I am a jelly doughnut" \
/ and nobody elses'" -- me | -- President John F Kennedy \
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
Ernest Gainey & David Tyler
>In article <271...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com> j...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com (Jon W Meyer) writes:
>>More puzzling, to me, is the selection of Picard to mind meld with Sarek.
>>Sarek didn't seem to be using Picard's diplomatic skills, he was just trying
>>to gain the strength he needed to master his emotions long enough to
>>complete his mission. I would have thought that the other Vulcan (I forgot
>>his name) would have been the more logical mind meld partner.
>
>I agree 100%, Jon. It seems the only reason to have Picard do the mind
>meld with Sarek is so Patrick Stewart can show his sensitive side. It
>would have made more sense for the Vulcan aide ( I can't remember his
>name) to do it, as he was already aware of Sarek's "emotional" problems.
But didnt the Vulcan aide (and Sarek) try to make it clear, that
basically the aide was at the end of his abilities.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, he has been doing it for a long time
and just couldn't do it anymore. The emotions coming from Sarek at this point
were just to much for him... (In other words, "emotionally tired" if thats
possible for a Vulcan)...
>Another good choice would have been Counselor Troi, since she is
>a psychologist, has experience with telepathy, and it would have allowed
>Picard to attend the negotiations.
I dunno about that. I think Counselor Troi is to weak to be able to handle
that much emotion. :)
>
>IMHO, the use of Picard in this scene weakened the entire episode.
I dunno... I thought he did a good job acting. And it kinda was refreshing
to see Picard take on that much "pain" and be forced to display it.
He holds it in too much, and seems sometimes like he refuses to display
any emotion for fear that it will make him appear weak.
>
>Jeff Abbott
>________________________________________________________________________
>Disclaimer: I didn't do it and no one saw!
>abb...@mobius.aca.mcc.com
>________________________________________________________________________
--
Ernest J. Gainey III //\\ Gain...@Snybufva.Bitnet
The Amiga Aquarium \\ //==\\ Use This Address, Not Above Address
(716)/837-1699 \\/ \\MIGA... :)
Kenneth L Love
Does anybody have a transcript of Picard/Sarek's lines during the mind meld?
I have only seen it once, but it seems to me that Picard said that Amanda and
Spock were dead and buried for so long. Does anybody else remember this?
Comments?
Kenneth Love
Donn Pedro
> I saw "Sarek" for the first time this weekend. One question I have is why
> does Sarek have a new (human) wife. Is there an "official" answer? How
> about a mundane (20th century) answer?
Amanda Sarek died of old age.
Think about it.
Donn F Pedro ....................a.k.a. uunet!nwnexus!mcgp1!brat!donn
else: {the known world}!uunet!nwnexus!mcgp1!brat!donn
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: I didn't do it. Nobody saw me do it. You can't prove a thing.
Night Watchman
I don't have a transcript, but I recall him saying something like "Amanda...
Spock... I could never tell you that I loved you..." (emotional stuttering
deleted :-), which to my mind implies that either he believes he is going
to die (which, given a Vulcan's attitude toward his emotional control, I
could almost believe, given his delerium) or that Amanda and Spock are dead.
I don't see any other reason (aside from simple loss-of-control) for him
to phrase things that way.
Arnold Gill (visiting astrophys phd std)
>I don't have a transcript, but I recall him saying something like "Amanda...
>Spock... I could never tell you that I loved you..." (emotional stuttering
>deleted :-), which to my mind implies that either he believes he is going
>to die (which, given a Vulcan's attitude toward his emotional control, I
>could almost believe, given his delerium) or that Amanda and Spock are dead.
>I don't see any other reason (aside from simple loss-of-control) for him
>to phrase things that way.
remember Sarek including Perrin in the same sentence. My understanding
of Sarek's ramblings was that because of who he is, he is not
permitted the luxury of actually voicing his love for his family, even
in private. Thus, the 'I could never tell you that I loved you ...'.
Arnold Gill --- astrophysician in training
dark...@buhub.uucp
> /* Written 11:30 am Sep 12, 1990 by mobius.ACA.MCC.COM!abbott in buhub:rec.arts.startrek */
> In article <271...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com> j...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com (Jon W Meyer) writes:
> I agree 100%, Jon. It seems the only reason to have Picard do the mind
> meld with Sarek is so Patrick Stewart can show his sensitive side. It
> would have made more sense for the Vulcan aide ( I can't remember his
> name) to do it, as he was already aware of Sarek's "emotional" problems.
> a psychologist, has experience with telepathy, and it would have allowed
> Picard to attend the negotiations.
>
> /* End of text from buhub:rec.arts.startrek */
Here's a bit of hand waving --
Why Picard? He has good diplomatic skills, so we've been told, and has
very good control of his own emotions, for a Human. IMHO, at least. He
could be trusted to at least partially contain the Vulcan emotion, without
blowing his synapses. He could also lend his own experience to Sarek,
though probably not consciously. Interestingly enough, Picard may have
gained some of Sarek's abilities, as well.
Why not the other Vulcan? He's about as diplomatic as a pig. We saw Sarek
refering to Riker as 'Number One.' It seems obvious that SOME personality
was exchanged, at least while the meld was in effect. Bendai might also be
transmittable through a direct meld with another Vulcan. Picard already
has it, in a sense, so there was no danger.
Why not Troi? She has problems keeping a straight face when Picard is in a
good mood. How's she going to deal with over 200 years of Vulcan anger,
hostility, and violence, not to mention the DAMAGING emotions like passion
for a loved one?
I will admit that the entire episode seemed to be a setup for Picard to
mind meld, though.
John S. Novak, III dark...@buhub.bradley.edu
"I'm unemployed. I don't have an employer not to speak for..."
Ernest McCarter
Why would Sarek mind meld with Picard when more logical choices
were available on the Enterprise?
I think it's obvious that Sarek wasn't thinking very logically at
the time.
What more needs to be said?
--
mic...@brahms.udel.edu * "There was a point to this story, but it has
-------------------------- * temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind."
mic...@sun.udel.edu * -DISCLAIMER by Douglas Adams
Captain's Log: Stardate unknown. A mysterious force has seized the computer.
Thomas J. Snively
says:
>In article <271...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com> j...@wdl1.wdl.fac.com (Jon W Meyer) :
>writes
>>More puzzling, to me, is the selection of Picard to mind meld with Sarek.
>I agree 100%, Jon. It seems the only reason to have Picard do the mind
>meld with Sarek is so Patrick Stewart can show his sensitive side. It
I thought that one of the best things about the show was that Picard got to
go what he wanted. In the early/middle of the episode, Picard said something
like he wanted to share his insights of Sarek's lifetime. He was really
disappointed that he wouldn't be able to do that.
-Tom
******************************************************************************
Bitnet : TJS...@psuvm.bitnet Makeshift signature.
Internet: TJS...@psuvm.psu.edu No real cool sayings yet.
******************************************************************************
Jeff Beck
Because humans deal with emotions everyday. Vulcans have supressed them
from birth. They have supressed them to the point that they barely exist
anymore. I know Sarek said that Vulcan emotions are very strong, but there
is a difference in "supressing" something vs. "dealing with it". Picard
would have been much better at "dealing with it" than any Vulcan.
--
******************************************************************************
* Jason Bold - Madison,WI= [(rutgers||ames)!uwvax||att!nicmad]!astroatc!bold *
* "A strawberry mind, a body that's built for two" - Michael Hedges *
******************************************************************************
Ryan D Mathews
>
>Because humans deal with emotions everyday. Vulcans have supressed them
>from birth. They have supressed them to the point that they barely exist
>anymore. I know Sarek said that Vulcan emotions are very strong, but there
>is a difference in "supressing" something vs. "dealing with it". Picard
>would have been much better at "dealing with it" than any Vulcan.
I don't know if I accept this argument. It has never been implied that
Vulcan emotions barely exist. There is a difference between supression
and dealing with one's emotion, true, but Sarek needed the Vulcan
control he was used to. He somehow got it from Picard, but he could
have gotten it from his Vulcan assistant, and did, although not as
good due to the lack of a mind-meld.
I realize that Picard needed to be the one in order for the episode to
have a good ending, but any excuse would have been better than merely
ignoring the problem and hoping the viewer doesn't notice.
---------- Ryan Mathews
--
Internet : mat...@cs.buffalo.edu
Bitnet : mathews@sunybcs
UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}!
cs.buffalo.edu!mathews
Bill Carss
I have to add a couple of lines about the Vulkan Mind Meld which Sarek and
Picard shared. If you recall from episodes of TOS, when Spick performed the
meld with humans and/or aliens there was always a question of him loosing
himself during the meld. In addition, when melding with humans, the humans
frequently loose themselves in spock's mind i.e. they loose control and are
subject to his thoughts - hence their ability to face the Earp gamg while under
the control of the Milkotians (10.25/68) in "The Spectre of the Gun". My
point is simply that Picard would not have the power of will - even though
Sarek was ill, to withstand the on-slaught of the emotions resulting from
the disease. Further, it would be unlikely that Picard could, even if he
could stand the flood of emotions be able to carry on anykind of meaningful
conversation or separate thought.
For his part, Sarek should have been affected by the meld also, and it would
bring into serious doubt his ability to perform and serious negotiations. I
think that this episode was a serious "OOPS"!! I think itis important that
if nothing else, thewriters attempt to maintain their own lore i.e TrekLore
to use someone else's word.
--
Bill Carss
bi...@braille.uwo.ca (Please Note the Lower case!!)
What ever happened to FireBall XL-5?
Pat Berry
> My
> point is simply that Picard would not have the power of will - even though
> Sarek was ill, to withstand the on-slaught of the emotions resulting from
> the disease. Further, it would be unlikely that Picard could, even if he
> could stand the flood of emotions be able to carry on anykind of meaningful
> conversation or separate thought.
He *didn't* withstand it. He was completely overwhelmed by it. Don't
you think he was rendered incoherent by it? Go watch the episode again.
> For his part, Sarek should have been affected by the meld also, and it would
> bring into serious doubt his ability to perform and serious negotiations.
He *was* affected by it. That was the whole point of the exercise: to
allow Sarek to regain control of himself by drawing on Picard's
emotional stability and calm. This turned Picard into a basket case for
the duration of the mindmeld, but Picard stayed in his cabin.
If Sarek had *not* been affected by the meld, there would have been no
reason to perform it.
Pat Berry p...@ramona.Cary.NC.US
Aaron
>
> Why would Sarek mind meld with Picard when more logical choices
>were available on the Enterprise?
> I think it's obvious that Sarek wasn't thinking very logically at
>the time.
> What more needs to be said?
>
class (as the pride of the Federation) Captain, HAS to have diplomatic ability
in an at least fairly competant manner. And, since he IS the Captain, he is
most likely more able than any other crew member in this area. IMHO, I don't
really think there WERE any **more** logical choices; some **equal**, maybe,
but not necessarily **more**.
Success to you all, and mnhei'sahe!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duke |NCC-1727, D.Suriani, Commanding
~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~ ~ ~|'...with a conscientously applied
~~ ~ ~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~ | program of oral hygiene, supp-
~~~~~~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~~~~~~ ~ | lemented by regular, professional
of | dental care..........'
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~ ~ |----------------------------------
~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ |I claim everything good, and dis-
~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~ |everything bad...or flaming.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PS- I believe in heat sinks!!!! T.M.B. |
--------------------------------------------
lee Shattuck
>were available on the Enterprise?
> I think it's obvious that Sarek wasn't thinking very logically at
>the time.
> What more needs to be said?
IMHO, Picard was a fairly logical choice. Picard is known for his
emotional control (as Troi points out constantly), and that was what
Sarek needed. Sarek "exchanged" his irrationality for Picard's control.
-----------------------
T'Leia