THE OLD SHIP/BEST SHIP
Matt Bartley
>It's hard to believe the things you read sometimes. With all of this
>talk about the sixth Star Trek movie taking place before everything
>in the old show and movies, countless people have claimed that the
>old Enterprise is "too dorky" to please current movie attenders.
>
>To them, I say YOU ARE TOTALLY MISTAKEN.
>
>When I watch the old show, I am always amazed at how real the ship looks.
>It has the proper amount of detail on it. Do you know what I mean?
>The farther an object get from the human eye, the less detail is visible
>on its surface. The Next Generation makes the mistake of portraying too
>much detail at too far a distance...it looks synthetic. (and small)
I think you're right about the 1701D ship. Something about it has never
struck me well and maybe that's it. Maybe it's the computer enhancement.
With the glow on the warp engines and the window on the ship, it really looks
like computer graphics and doesn't look real.
I can't agree with you about the TOS Enterprise. I don't think it looks
very real either. It looks a lot like the plastic models you can buy at
the hobby store and build. Very little difference in appearance. Worst I
think, the red glowing modules at the front of the warp engines look really
cheesy.
I think the movie Enterprise is the best, and looks most real, as you talk
about. I'd be damned it I could get my model to look as good as it does.
Now on this, maybe we better think back to ST:TMP and ST2, rather than ST5,
since the effects in 5 were not so good. I'd say it looked best in 2.
--
Internet: mdbo...@portia.stanford.edu Matt Bartley
Bitnet: mdbomber%por...@stanford.bitnet
Kirk: "Spock! Where's that power you promised?"
Spock: "One damn minute, Admiral." -- Star Trek IV : The Voyage Home
John 'Fast-Eddie' McMahon
:
:When I watch the old show, I am always amazed at how real the ship looks.
FYI - One of the original show models of the U.S.S. Enterprise now hangs in the
National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John "Fast Eddie" McMahon FAST...@DFTNIC.GSFC.NASA.GOV
Code 630.4 - Advanced Data Flow Technology Office SDCDCL::FASTEDDY (SPAN)
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, MD (301) 286-2045
"Living a 9600 Baud Lifestyle in a 1200 Baud World" - R.A.J.
Ryan D Mathews
(Matt Bartley) writes:
> Something about [the NCC-1701-D] has never
> struck me well ... Maybe it's the computer enhancement.
> With the glow on the warp engines and the window on the ship, it really looks
> like computer graphics and doesn't look real.
> Matt Bartley
I don't know if I can agree with you on that point. The D has seemed
plenty "real" enough to me. My biggest beef is that we're never given
a true idea of its size. The D is HUGE. For comparison, the saucer
section, from front to rear, is nearly as long as the entire NCC-1701.
(Don't ask me my sources. I don't remember, but I think it was a Starlog
article near the beginning of the show.)
---------- Ryan Mathews
Internet : mat...@cs.buffalo.edu
Bitnet : mathews%cs.buffalo.edu@ubvm
UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}!
cs.buffalo.edu!mathews
Allen P Jr Haughay
Uh no...there are certain fly-by shots where the ship looked fairly
realistic. When they moved in for a closeup, it tended to look just
like a model.
>The farther an object get from the human eye, the less detail is visible
>on its surface. The Next Generation makes the mistake of portraying too
>much detail at too far a distance...it looks synthetic. (and small)
>
I disagree with you on this one. When they photograph the highly detailed
ship from far away, that's how it is going to look. Small and detailed.
Period. The one thing I like about the video compositing is that the
ship comes out looking so crisp, and the colors are quite good. No atmosphere
to muddy things up at all, so I imagine the effect is actually quite
realistic looking.
>Why change the Enterprise at all? Do movie producers go around saying
>"get that fifties Corvette off the set, it looks old and slow."? No,
>there is MERIT and NOVELTY in classic designs.
>
No need to change the old Enterprise for use in a film version of an
old Enterprise adventure. They will need a decent model to film, though,
that has a lot more detail work. Some compromise will have to be made
as far as the sets are concerned, because they will look hokey if the
producers simplay mirror what was done in the '60's.
Skip Haughay
ACIT-University of Delaware
Ket M'thau
> I don't know if I can agree with you on that point. The D has seemed
> plenty "real" enough to me. My biggest beef is that we're never given
> a true idea of its size. The D is HUGE. For comparison, the saucer
> section, from front to rear, is nearly as long as the entire NCC-1701.
> (Don't ask me my sources. I don't remember, but I think it was a Starlog
> article near the beginning of the show.)
In the openning titles of the show, in the scene where the 1701-D heads away
from the camera, you can see someone walking in the conference room through
the windows... Aside from being a nifty effect, this gives *some* impression
of the size of the ship.
According to my Trek miscellania here, the 1701-D is 613 meters long, compared
to 289 meters for the original Enterprise (for comparison, the CN Tower in
Toronto is 553 meters tall).
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- <4223...@uwovax.uwo.ca> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
V Ket M'thau >or< JHGR oo I *am* a number.
O USS Kepler (NCC 3501) __ In fact, I'm several.
+ Star Trek Toronto 4223_5403 is just one of many.
Have a Day
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Please disregard this notice -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
__ _ __ __ __ __
| | \ |\` \ | | | |\ \ | \ |\ '_| | | | | /
|__ | | | \ /\ | , |__ | | \ /\ | , /\ | \ | | | |_| |/
Ryan D Mathews
M'thau) writes:
> In the openning titles of the show, in the scene where the 1701-D heads away
> from the camera, you can see someone walking in the conference room through
> the windows...
?!?!?!?!?
What is this? Are you certain of this? During the opening credits? If
you are absolutely certain, I'd like a more specific place to look. I
gotta see this.
pixel,c108,,
> In article <5020.2...@uwovax.uwo.ca>, 4223...@uwovax.uwo.ca (Ket
> M'thau) writes:
>> In the openning titles of the show, in the scene where the 1701-D heads away
>> from the camera, you can see someone walking in the conference room through
>> the windows...
>> Ket M'thau
>
> ?!?!?!?!?
> What is this? Are you certain of this? During the opening credits? If
> you are absolutely certain, I'd like a more specific place to look. I
> gotta see this.
Absolutely positive; I've seen it too. Yeah, it's (I think, but could be
wrong) behind the bridge on the top of the saucer section. Watch it closely
tonight...:)
> ---------- Ryan Mathews
>
> Internet : mat...@cs.buffalo.edu
> Bitnet : mathews%cs.buffalo.edu@ubvm
> UUCP :{apple,cornell,decwrl,harvard,rutgers,talcott,ucbvax,uunet}!
> cs.buffalo.edu!mathews
-----
Pixel rick cooley, sablelover cooleyra@clutx. clarkson.edu | bitnet
"Keep the wind in your solar sails..." --Glenn Clapp
"Nothing can stop him. Not even common sense." --Mark Komarinski
Ket M'thau
> In article <5020.2...@uwovax.uwo.ca>, 4223...@uwovax.uwo.ca (Ket
> M'thau) writes:
>> In the openning titles of the show, in the scene where the 1701-D heads away
>> from the camera, you can see someone walking in the conference room through
>> the windows...
>> Ket M'thau
>
> you are absolutely certain, I'd like a more specific place to look. I
> gotta see this.
I was just watching a tape of Deja Q with some friends (one of whom hadn't
seen it), and had to rewind through this brief scene three times to show them
the person... :)
The bridge of the 1701-D is a bulge on top of another bulge in the middle
of the saucer -- similar to the TOS Enterprise, only it looks flatter, since
the base is wider.
When the last Enterprise flyby occurs, it's heading away from the camera, and
the bridge passes right under the viewer. Just below the bridge is a row of
seven windows -- this is the conference room that Picard always calls everyone
to. If you watch closely, you can see someone walking from port to starboard
across the room. For some reason, I get the strong impression that it's Riker,
but there's not enough detail to be sure. I *think* you can see the reliefs
of the various Enterprises as well...
I'm always impressed by this shot...
> ---------- Ryan Mathews
Allen P Jr Haughay
>In article <5020.2...@uwovax.uwo.ca>, 4223...@uwovax.uwo.ca (Ket
>M'thau) writes:
>> In the openning titles of the show, in the scene where the 1701-D heads away
>> from the camera, you can see someone walking in the conference room through
>> the windows...
>What is this? Are you certain of this? During the opening credits? If
>you are absolutely certain, I'd like a more specific place to look. I
>gotta see this.
>
Yeah, there is someone definitely walking in the conference room windows.
It happens just before the last warp out, when you see the Enterprise from
the back. The camera is shooting from a low perspective over the rear portion
of the saucer section. As the camera pulls back you see a figure walk across
the windows inside the conference lounge. The ship continues forward into
the frame, the music swells, and the thing goes into warp. I remember the
first time I saw that, I was pretty surprised. Oh, you are probably not
going to be able to see this effect on a small TV.
Brandon Lovested
Yup, there's dude walking in that grated area behind and beneath the bridge.
This is the Officer's Lounge. It's me. I'm looking for a bottle of...
welll....it's green! ;-)
+ * +
*
+ *
- - - - -------======<<<<<{{{{{{[[[[[[ BRANDONIUS bran...@amadeus.WR.TEK.COM
+ +
* * *
Will Johnson
seems to me to make the overall scale of the ship much too small for
1000+ to live in such comfort, considering most of the deck space is in
the saucer. Ah well.
Will.
--
Original text copyright (c) 1990 by: William Johnson
William...@mts.rpi.edu | 76 1/2 - 13th Street
user...@rpitsmts.bitnet | Troy, NY 12180
ad...@pawl.rpi.edu | "Hey, Dad...wanna have a catch?" -- Ray Kinsella
DEREK LAWRENCE
According to David Gerrold just before the new series aired, the new
ship is 2108 feet long, while according to 'Mr. Scott's Guide to the
Enterprise' the refitted NCC-1701 is 991 feet long. I, too, saw the
article you mentioned in Starlog magazine. The new ship is huge compared
to the original.
Later,eh.
Derek.
---
* Via ProDoor 3.1 : : MUI Sydney, Nova Scotia (902) 564-5022
~ QNet 2.04: MUI Sydney, NS (902) 564-5022 CB Hub via NorthAmeriNet
DEREK LAWRENCE
Tom Kuchar
>My biggest beef is that we're never given
>a true idea of its size. The D is HUGE. For comparison, the saucer
>section, from front to rear, is nearly as long as the entire NCC-1701.
>(Don't ask me my sources. I don't remember, but I think it was a Starlog
>article near the beginning of the show.)
>
> ---------- Ryan Mathews
(issue #2 or 3), there is a production sketch of NCC-1701-D along side
Franz Josef's rendition of the USS Constitution (appearantly from his published
blueprints). The saucer section of the new ship is indeed as long as the
old Enterprise-style ships. In fact the `D' ship appears nearly twice as long.
One of the problems with optical effects on TNG since day one was proper
scaling of the vessels. In `Encounter at Farpoint' the USS Hood (ne Excelsior)
seemed almost the same size as the new Eneterprise, if not larger. I'm
refering to the scene where the two ships are in orbit about the planet at
Fairpoint Station, and the Hood just breaks orbit.
I'm sort of resigned that this problem will continue for the entire run of
the series. I really think this is due to the limitations of TV as a medium.
I also think this is why people keep insisting that the Klingons have
several Bird of Prey style ships, all of differing sizes. Let's face it,
there's only one type of Bird of Prey ship, and its the same model that's
appeared in ST III through V and in The Next Generation. It was originally
smaller than the Original Enterprise, but due to limitations of TV, it will
always appear to vary in size. It's sort of silly to think the Klingons
(or anyone for that matter) would just scale up a smaller ship if they
wanted to build larger ones. The amount of effort to redesign and build
a scaled-up ship is same amount to build a completely new ship. It's not
as easy to have the designers say `Just take these old blueprints and multiply
everything by two'. The stresses and power consumption would be completely
different for a larger vessel.
--
Tom...
Ket M'thau
> As far as the figure we see walking in the credits, I don't like it. It
> seems to me to make the overall scale of the ship much too small for
> 1000+ to live in such comfort, considering most of the deck space is in
> the saucer. Ah well.
Well, the saucer section is 19 decks through the centre (including bridge),
and the whole ship is about 620 meters or so in lenght. That's enough room
for a fair number of people...
> Will.
Ross M Mather
>
>It's sort of silly to think the Klingons
>(or anyone for that matter) would just scale up a smaller ship if they
>wanted to build larger ones. The amount of effort to redesign and build
>a scaled-up ship is same amount to build a completely new ship. It's not
>as easy to have the designers say `Just take these old blueprints and multiply
>everything by two'. The stresses and power consumption would be completely
>different for a larger vessel.
But then with the Klingons still having enemies in the Federation and the
Romulans (in the Flicks) and the Roms (in TNG), what they may have done is
to design some ships that look the same on the outside so that they can attempt
to confuse their enemies.
After all, if you think a ship is heavily gunned when in fact it is merely a
scount (usually lightly armed) then your far less likely to get into a fight
with it.
Ross
--
* USEnet : matherr!glasgow!mcsun!... | Senior Honours,Comp. Sci. Dept. *
* ARPAnet : mat...@cs.glasgow.ac.uk | University Of Glasgow, Scotland. *
* From USA : matherr%cs.glasg...@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk *
* If I hadn't want it heard I wouldn't have said it - Klingon Proverb *
Will Johnson
> In article <H*$#|R...@rpi.edu>, ad...@pawl.rpi.edu (Will Johnson) writes:
> > As far as the figure we see walking in the credits, I don't like it. It
> > seems to me to make the overall scale of the ship much too small for
> > 1000+ to live in such comfort, considering most of the deck space is in
> > the saucer. Ah well.
>
> Well, the saucer section is 19 decks through the centre (including bridge),
> and the whole ship is about 620 meters or so in lenght. That's enough room
> for a fair number of people...
I didn't mean that the ship wasn't large enough in theory, I meant that
at least to my eyes, the figure walking in the briefing room was too large
to accomodate 19 decks in the saucer, etcetera. I grant you he/she had
to be large enough to see, but if you extrapolate by his/her height and
the general added height of free space over their heads and all the matter
between decks (Jeffries Tubes et al?), there just wouldn't even seem to
be room enough for 19 decks all the way down to the base of the ship, and
certainly not through the saucer. This ship, to me, looks smaller than
the TOS enterprise was supposed to be. Then again, it could all be my
eyes, as I *DO* have some trouble judging relative sizing.
K...@psuvm.psu.edu
>In article <17...@eerie.acsu.Buffalo.EDU> mat...@errai.cs.buffalo.edu (Ryan D
>Mathews) writes:
>>My biggest beef is that we're never given
>>a true idea of its size. The D is HUGE. For comparison, the saucer
>>section, from front to rear, is nearly as long as the entire NCC-1701.
The 1701-D is 2100 feet in length. That's 7 Beaver Stadiums! (football
fields for you non-Penn Staters)
As for the discussions that there are major proportioning problems with
the sizes of the ships, especially the Klingon Vessels, I am not at all
convinced that this is such a problem. I have noticed that there seem
to be some sizing problems when showing certain vessels or objects that
have been stated to be certain distances from the Enterprise but it
certainly isn't a major problem and it definitely isn't one that gets
me bent out of shape. I personally bow down to the people at ILM for
the incredible SFX we are given week after week (for a television show!!)
so I certainly don't mind an insignificant sizing discrepancy every now
and then. Heck, I won't even complain when they use the exact same shot
of the Enteprise in orbit 3 or 4 times in the same show :-)
Kevin S.
KPS at PSUVM
Ket M'thau
> to be large enough to see, but if you extrapolate by his/her height and
> the general added height of free space over their heads and all the matter
> between decks (Jeffries Tubes et al?), there just wouldn't even seem to
> be room enough for 19 decks all the way down to the base of the ship, and
> certainly not through the saucer. This ship, to me, looks smaller than
The Jeffries Tubes aren't between decks, they go through those areas near
the hull where the decks aren't full hight due to the curvature of the hull.
Or, at least, I think so. The cross-sections of the 1701-D that have appeared
in TNG (i.e. in Contagion, when Geordi is explaining just what's wrong with
(or rather, what happened to) the other Galaxy-class ship (whose name escapes
me at the moment) show enough decks for the size of the ship.
The rear view in the titles is a little misleading, because the surface of
the saucer has a slight curve, which is hard to account for visually in
that view of the ship. But if you look at the model of the 1701-D that's
out, you can see that 19 decks through the saucer do, in fact, fit.