Sure was crowded out there
Dwight Williams
Andy (y...@spammers.can.all.kiss.my.ass) writes:
> As much as I was dying for a good space battle, weren't those ships a
> tad CLOSE to each other? I mean, even at the battle of Jutland the
> ships were a few miles apart...
Yeah, Rick Sternbach already made note of this point on ras.tech. Not how
he'd have had the relevant FX people if he'd been guided strictly by probable
tactics of the situation.
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
David Stipes
Hi guys!
Yeah, the ships are close! We even had to paint in part of a hull when
two CGI ship intersected the same space! But here's the deal...the CGI
"virtual camera" sees objects in their true size and lens perspective. I
tried setting up a few of the shots with the ships at a reasonable
distance apart but with the effect of a wide angle lens (usually 24mm)
the distant ship lost size and dramatic scope. Sooooo,
we cheated their spacing to what looked good. :)
David Stipes. Visual Effects Supervisor DS9
Mark Nguyen
David Stipes wrote:
> Yeah, the ships are close! We even had to paint in part of a hull when
> two CGI ship intersected the same space! But here's the deal...the CGI
> "virtual camera" sees objects in their true size and lens perspective. I
> tried setting up a few of the shots with the ships at a reasonable
> distance apart but with the effect of a wide angle lens (usually 24mm)
> the distant ship lost size and dramatic scope. Sooooo,
> we cheated their spacing to what looked good. :)
>
> David Stipes. Visual Effects Supervisor DS9
Ah, *there* you are! We've been waiting for you to pop up.
Before you get deluged with questions, let me be the first. :) There's
been a debate about the opening VFX shot of the pummeled fleet in "A
Time to Stand", the season opener.
First off, what the heck is that tug? Some kitbash? A CGI composite?
And to the right of the tug, there's this wierd Excelsior kitbash. Does
it have a name or class name? For that matter, does the Excelsior class
ship that the tug is towing have a name?
On the extreme left of the shot, we can see two ships way in the
distance. We can't make them out as anything in particular. Do you know
what kind of ships they were? Have we seen them before?
And finally, does the USS Centaur have a class name?
Thanks in advance, and I return you to the forthcoming hoarde of
questions about the mother of all Trek battles. Congratulations on a
great job!
Mark
Henri Chen
Mark Nguyen wrote:
>
> David Stipes wrote:
>
> > Yeah, the ships are close! We even had to paint in part of a hull when
> > two CGI ship intersected the same space! But here's the deal...the CGI
> > "virtual camera" sees objects in their true size and lens perspective. I
> > tried setting up a few of the shots with the ships at a reasonable
> > distance apart but with the effect of a wide angle lens (usually 24mm)
> > the distant ship lost size and dramatic scope. Sooooo,
> > we cheated their spacing to what looked good. :)
> >
> > David Stipes. Visual Effects Supervisor DS9
>
> Ah, *there* you are! We've been waiting for you to pop up.
>
> Before you get deluged with questions, let me be the first. :)
I'll be number two.
You said that the virtual camera sees the ships in their true
proportional relationships. Does this mean you have "official"
dimensions for the ships? If so, WE WANT TO KNOW!!! Just how big is a
K'Vort supposed to be? A Vor'cha? A Jem'Hadar warship? A Jem'Hadar
fighter? The Negh'Var?
How's that for a deluge? Feel free not to answer all of them, of course
(or any; I can't really make you . . . can I?).
Live long and prosper.
202129a (Henri Chen)
David Stipes
We do have a semi official size list. But it can change from episode to
episode to serve producer or story needs. These are the sizes I use:
Vor-Cha = 1500 ft.
Neg-Var = 2250 ft.
Jem Hadar Battle cruiser = 2500 ft.
Jem Hadar "Bug" Fighter = 500 ft.
V-Vort = ??? (Give me an example of K-Vort)
David
Mark Nguyen
David Stipes wrote:
> Yeah, the ships are close! We even had to paint in part of a hull when
> two CGI ship intersected the same space! But here's the deal...the CGI
> "virtual camera" sees objects in their true size and lens perspective. I
> tried setting up a few of the shots with the ships at a reasonable
> distance apart but with the effect of a wide angle lens (usually 24mm)
> the distant ship lost size and dramatic scope. Sooooo,
> we cheated their spacing to what looked good. :)
>
> David Stipes. Visual Effects Supervisor DS9
Ah, *there* you are! We've been waiting for you to pop up.
Before you get deluged with questions, let me be the first. :) There's
been a debate about the opening VFX shot of the pummeled fleet in "A
Time to Stand", the season opener.
First off, what the heck is that tug? Some kitbash? A CGI composite?
And to the right of the tug, there's this wierd Excelsior kitbash. Does
it have a name or class name? FOr that matter, does the Excelsior class
Mark Nguyen
David Stipes wrote:
> We do have a semi official size list. But it can change from episode to
> episode to serve producer or story needs. These are the sizes I use:
>
> Vor-Cha = 1500 ft.
> Neg-Var = 2250 ft.
> Jem Hadar Battle cruiser = 2500 ft.
> Jem Hadar "Bug" Fighter = 500 ft.
>
> V-Vort = ??? (Give me an example of K-Vort)
>
> David
A "K'Vort" is a "large" Bird of Prey. Bigger than the variety you use on
the show nowadays... I used to show up on occaision back in TNG, but
hasn't really since.
What about the new Federation ships? Got any dimensions on those?
Mark
David Stipes
Henri Chen wrote:
> As Mark said earlier, K'Vorts are the "big" Klingon birds-of-prey. What
> size do you use for the birds-of-prey which you do use?
I do not have a size for K'Vort. Martok's Bird of Prey (BOP)
is about 450 ft. to better work with Defiant at 560 ft. The other BOP's
(not K'Vort) I scale at 360 ft.
> Just a few more requests. What sizes have you been using with the
> Galor-class Cardassian cruisers and the DS9 station itself? Is the
> Defiant "really" 560 feet long?
Galor is about 1200 ft. DS-9 is 5280 ft.
> And, to settle a long-running debate, just how many Galaxy-class
> starships did you stuff into that great battle scene?
I don't even know! I'll pass this onto John Gross and John Allardice.
> P.S. Are those Cardassian assault vessels (you know, the little ones)
> really Hedeki-class? I'm still not sure.
Yes, Hedeki Class at 500 ft. long.
David :)
Brian Barjenbruch
What is the Centaur's class and NCC number?
Brian
Henri Chen
Thanks for the new details! I've saved them for future reference.
Incidentally, is there an explanation for the curious lack of
Ambassador-, Constellation-, Keldon- (modified Galor) and Nebula-class
starships? Have these not been rendered into 3-D models or something?
To elaborate on the Galaxy issue: Mark and I both counted nine in that
shot, while others have counted four through seven. It's a fairly wide
discrepancy; something definite would be really nice.
Thanks again. Live long and prosper.
202129a (Henri Chen)
P.S. Just how long have you been working with DS9, anyway? Do you
supervise both the CGI and the model photography?
Brian Barjenbruch
> > What is the Centaur's class and NCC number?
> >
> > Brian
>
> out and ask the modeling guys who DO know.
I still think 'Chimera' sounds good. There's a Chimera-class ship in the
Encyclopedia, but I can't remember its name. Perhaps all of the ships in
this class are named after famous monsters...Chimera, Centaur, Grendel,
etc. :-)
Brian
Timo S Saloniemi
In article <brianb1-1311...@cx31002-a.omhaw1.ne.home.com> bri...@home.com (Brian Barjenbruch) writes:
>> > What is the Centaur's class and NCC number?
>> Mr. Stipes, unfortunately, doesn't know... yet. Hopefully, he'll help us
>> out and ask the modeling guys who DO know.
>I still think 'Chimera' sounds good. There's a Chimera-class ship in the
>Encyclopedia, but I can't remember its name. Perhaps all of the ships in
>this class are named after famous monsters...Chimera, Centaur, Grendel,
>etc. :-)
So "Portland" is some kind of hideous monster in the future? Perhaps
this has its roots in ancient 21st century folklore, where port
facilities began to languish with the perfection of air transportation,
and the empty docks and wharfs and smelly warehouses and swaying piers
stimulated the imagination and sealed the fate of countless numbers
of curious little boys...
;-)
Timo Saloniemi
.
.
Henri Chen
David Stipes wrote:
> > P.S. Just how long have you been working with DS9, anyway? Do you
> > supervise both the CGI and the model photography?
>
> season 4.
>
> Yes, I supervise both CGI & model photography. :)
Does this mean you have the prerogative of naming ships that are not
explicitly named in scripts? That would be an excellent way to get your
own name on a starship. :) Or my name. . . .
Aside from all those ships we saw in "Sacrifice of Angels," what other
ones have been rendered into 3-D?
When is the hiatus over for you?
David Stipes
mco...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> David Stipes wrote:
> >
> > Henri Chen wrote:
> >
> > > Incidentally, is there an explanation for the curious lack of
> > > Ambassador-, Constellation-, Keldon- (modified Galor) and Nebula-class
> > > starships? Have these not been rendered into 3-D models or something?
> >
> >
> > > To elaborate on the Galaxy issue: Mark and I both counted nine in that
> > > shot, while others have counted four through seven. It's a fairly >wide discrepancy; something definite would be really nice.
> >
> > give more info.
> >
> > > P.S. Just how long have you been working with DS9, anyway? Do you
> > > supervise both the CGI and the model photography?
> >
> > I've been on DS-9 about a year and a half. I came on at the end of
> > season 4.
> >
> > Yes, I supervise both CGI & model photography. :)
> >
>
> I got a question about the "shine" of the models (or CGI?) on DS9.
>
> When the Enterprise-D was filmed for ST Generations, ILM gave it a
> blue grey paint job, with these pattern of shiny spots and in general a
> more specular surface than from the series. And when they made the
> Enterprise-E and the new trek starships in FC, they also had a bluer
> more shiny color.
>
> Does ILM have some special way of filming the models that they can
> have a much more metallic look than the way the ships on DS9 look. The
> pictures of the Enterprise-D (pre movie) and Voyager and other ships, in
> stills look really really matte. I read the models used on the trek
> shows used some form of UV lighting to generate the mattes, and maybey
> that prohibbited shiny metal ships.
Yes, shiny ships cause problems woth mattes.
RE: Number of Galaxy Class ships...John Gross tell me there were 3 or 5
in the shots.
David
Adam Farlinger
On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Brian Barjenbruch wrote:
> > > What is the Centaur's class and NCC number?
> > >
> > > Brian
> >
> > Mr. Stipes, unfortunately, doesn't know... yet. Hopefully, he'll help us
> > out and ask the modeling guys who DO know.
>
> I still think 'Chimera' sounds good. There's a Chimera-class ship in the
> Encyclopedia, but I can't remember its name. Perhaps all of the ships in
> this class are named after famous monsters...Chimera, Centaur, Grendel,
> etc. :-)
>
> Brian
So long as we never see the U.S.S. Godzilla or the U.S.S. Nessie (Loch
Ness Monster)...
(;
Mark Nguyen
Adam Farlinger wrote:
> So long as we never see the U.S.S. Godzilla or the U.S.S. Nessie (Loch
> Ness Monster)...
>
> (;
Or the Gamera, the Gigan, the Mothra, the Rodan...
And the States! The King Kong, the Klatuu, the Gort, the Thing...
Famous Superheroes! The Superman,the Batman, the Cyclops, the
Spiderman...
The list is endless!
Mark
Henri Chen
Mark Nguyen wrote:
> Or the Gamera, the Gigan, the Mothra, the Rodan...
>
> And the States! The King Kong, the Klatuu, the Gort, the Thing...
>
> Famous Superheroes! The Superman,the Batman, the Cyclops, the
> Spiderman...
>
> The list is endless!
I think you've finally lost it.
Henri Chen
David Stipes wrote:
> RE: Number of Galaxy Class ships...John Gross tell me there were 3 or 5
> in the shots.
Only 3 or 5? Hmm. I must have been seeing things. It looked like
several of the background ships in that shot were definitely Galaxies to
me. Oh, well.
Do you know if the Magellan (mentioned thus: "The Magellan and the
Venture are supposed to be protecting our starboard flank!") was one of
the Galaxies? We know the Venture is, but as far as we know, the
Magellan was a Constellation-class ship several years ago. But, there
were no Constellations in this battle.
Dwight Williams
Mark Nguyen (ngu...@arc.ab.ca) writes:
> Adam Farlinger wrote:
>
>> So long as we never see the U.S.S. Godzilla or the U.S.S. Nessie (Loch
>> Ness Monster)...
>> (;
>
> Or the Gamera, the Gigan, the Mothra, the Rodan...
> And the States! The King Kong, the Klatuu, the Gort, the Thing...
> Famous Superheroes! The Superman,the Batman, the Cyclops, the
> Spiderman...
Well, I did suggest something along the last of these lines in seriousness
to the _Legion of Super-Heroes_+_Legionnaires_ writers awhile back: famous
DC Universe planets and personages. Ex.: UPFS Bruce Anthony Wayne(the
aforementioned Batman), UPFS Kal-El(would his Terran name have survived
the intervening centuries?), and so on.
Follow-ups on *this* angle to rec.arts.comics.dc.lsh, obviously...and
hopefully Mr. Wolfe will drop in on our gatherings there as I understand
that ex-DS9 writer's a Legion fan.
> The list is endless!
Indeed...
Joshua Bell
David Stipes wrote in message <346808...@earthlink.net>...
>Yeah, the ships are close! We even had to paint in part of a hull when
>two CGI ship intersected the same space! But here's the deal...the CGI
>"virtual camera" sees objects in their true size and lens perspective. I
>tried setting up a few of the shots with the ships at a reasonable
>distance apart but with the effect of a wide angle lens (usually 24mm)
>the distant ship lost size and dramatic scope. Sooooo,
>we cheated their spacing to what looked good. :)
The sequence when the Defiant was ducking out of the battle (I can't recall
what episode; I'm very out of touch ST-wise, lately) was very well done.
It's a shame that ST ships jump to warp so quickly (engine
flash-stretch-bang!). The jump to hyperspace in Star Wars is such a
wonderful thing, with the incredible acceleration off into the distance
(zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzowie). There are beautiful shots in Jedi where
the Rebel fleet jump into, then drops out of hyperspace almost all at once
(and it's the lack of precision that makes the shot really work.)
Joshua
mco...@earthlink.net
Yah, i always wanted a jump to warp shot in trek where you got this
fed armada with the ships in a long collum, the front ships jump to
warp, a few frames later, the next row of ships jump and so on and so
on, kinda like how the fighters went lightspeed in jedi. Could be real
neat if the different type ships produced different warp effects, some
ships stretching, or others giving colored streak effects like the
enterprise-a.
Timothy Hood
>ships stretching, or others giving colored streak effects like the
>enterprise-a.
Speaking of, Am I the only one who thinks that in First Contact, the Phoenix
should have had the old warp trails? Nice little rainbows...
Timothy Hood
tim...@polarnet.com
"We've secretly replaced their dilithium with Folger's crystals..."
Lars P. Ormberg
Mark Nguyen wrote:
>
> Henri Chen wrote:
>
> > Only 3 or 5? Hmm. I must have been seeing things. It looked like
> > several of the background ships in that shot were definitely Galaxies to
> > me. Oh, well.
>
> Enterprise-like models except for the Galaxy and Excelsior models, we
> can be sure that the Galaxy-shaped ships in the backgroud were actually
> GCS.
The thing is that the background shots were all done in CGI. There were
too many ships to try and do that with models. They learned that when
doing "The Die Is Cast", it's too hard to do fleets with modelwork.
What I want to know is why the GCS in "Sacrifice of Angels" didn't have
registry letters on them. When we saw the two GCSs engaging the
Cardassian Galor ship, we got a beautiful view of the top of one of
their saucers. No registry or name at all (just, suspiciously enough,
like the Odyssey was like 2 years ago).
> Mark
--
Lars Ormberg
(Have to agree:can't no one cook roadkill better than me) (___)
(o o)
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* ||,---||
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Mark Nguyen
Timothy Hood wrote:
>
> >ships stretching, or others giving colored streak effects like the
> >enterprise-a.
>
> Speaking of, Am I the only one who thinks that in First Contact, the Phoenix
> should have had the old warp trails? Nice little rainbows...
Not necessarily, since the E-nil of the first series had NO warp effects
whatsoever... However, that would make the Phoenix rather boring.
Mark
Jon Glentoran
In article <b137cd$17518.1a3@PolarNet>, Timothy Hood
<tim...@polarnet.com> writes
>Speaking of, Am I the only one who thinks that in First Contact, the Phoenix
>should have had the old warp trails? Nice little rainbows...
>
> tim...@polarnet.com
>"We've secretly replaced their dilithium with Folger's crystals..."
>
>
>
which eventually led to the TOS-era Constitution class among others, did
it have the blue warp-plasma glow on the sides of the nacelles, which
weren't seen until movie-era ships and after? No sign of that on the
original Enterprise. The red-glowing rotating bussard collectors (a la
TOS) were a nice touch tho'.
--
Jon Glentoran
Replace d.c. with demon.co. when replying
Timo S Saloniemi
In article <b137cd$17518.1a3@PolarNet> "Timothy Hood" <tim...@polarnet.com> writes:
>>ships stretching, or others giving colored streak effects like the
>>enterprise-a.
>
>
>should have had the old warp trails? Nice little rainbows...
Or, better still, something really complex and hazardous-looking.
We have seen three effects of entering warp - in ST:TMP there are
these nice concentric circles with colored lights before the
ship enters warp (but there are no contrails or streaking stars while
AT warp), and this was probably the unseen warp effect of TOS as well.
In STII, we see a nice smooth warp entry with just the contrails.
In TNG, we get the stretch-and-flash and no contrails.
The Phoenix should have had a swirling vortex, lots of blinking lights,
lightning crackling all over the space, and finally a sickly sound as
the ship distorted and twisted and grudgingly entered warp, then a
gigantic burp paired with a closing of the vortex, and lots of
afterimages on our retinas...
Timo Saloniemi
mco...@earthlink.net
Actually since ILM was doing the effects, and had lots more money to
do the warp effect than when the stretched the enterprise for Encounter
at Farpoint, and since the older ships would probably have to struggle a
lot harder to break the light barrier than just instantaniously zipping
off to warp like Picard's enterprise, a longer more spectacular warp
entery for the Phoenix should have been done.
Robert Limric
Lars P. Ormberg wrote:
>
> What I want to know is why the GCS in "Sacrifice of Angels" didn't have
> registry letters on them. When we saw the two GCSs engaging the
> Cardassian Galor ship, we got a beautiful view of the top of one of
> their saucers. No registry or name at all (just, suspiciously enough,
> like the Odyssey was like 2 years ago).
Frustrating, yes. But the Odyssey at least had her registry on the
ventral surface of her primary hull. That's where I got it from (and
later saw it confirmed by the Encyclopedia). Funny thing is, in one of
the fleet shots from "Favor the Bold", I caught a glimpse of registry on
the bottom of one Galaxy. And it looked suspiciously like NCC-1701-D.
Hmm... I wonder why THAT could have been. :)
--Jonah
Jack Bohn
Timo S Saloniemi wrote:
>What about the size of the Romulan warbird? I think Andrew
>Probert originally wanted it to be larger than even a Galaxy -
>so if the Romulans return in future storylines, you might want
>to hammer down the true size of the ship somehow. So far, we
>have not seen episodes that would indicate the scale of the
>ship versus, say, DS9. But there's a nice picture in "Art of
>Star Trek" of a Warbird/Galaxy face-off that you might want to
>review... :)
>
There's an even better sketch by Probert in _The Continuing Mission_
(which has just shown up in Lima, Ohio. "Fortunately" the new Tech
Manual hasn't shown up yet so my bank account can recover. I know,
I shouldn't complain in front of you, Timo)
The sketch by Andrew Probert shows the E and the Rom lined up like
racehorses neck-and-neck at the finish line. The E's saucer is
about as long as the Warbird's forward hull from "beak" to "comb"
(that crenation on top). This reproduction is cut off midway
through the ships' warp nacells, but it does look like the E would
only be half the Warbird's length.
-Jack
SPAMblock in effect (*sigh*)
can be reached through jackbohn@bright dof net
Lars P. Ormberg
Jack Bohn wrote:
>
> Timo S Saloniemi wrote:
>
> >What about the size of the Romulan warbird? I think Andrew
> >Probert originally wanted it to be larger than even a Galaxy -
"The Neutral Zone" dialogue and visuals confirmed this. The warbird was
slowly shrunk throughout TNG.
> (that crenation on top). This reproduction is cut off midway
> through the ships' warp nacells, but it does look like the E would
> only be half the Warbird's length.
As stated in "The Neutral Zone".
> -Jack
> SPAMblock in effect (*sigh*)
> can be reached through jackbohn@bright dof net
--
Lars Ormberg mailto:la...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
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