Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
John Cook
Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
I've always wondered why Picard speaks in a Shakespearean English accent
when he's from France. So this week in the Sev Trek Cartoon Competition,
I've done a cartoon asking that same question, with you having to
provide the answer. The more humorous the answer, the better! Check it
out and other Sev Trek cartoons at:
http://www.powerup.com.au/~sevloid/toons/sevcomp.htm
I've also published the winner of last week's cartoon about Janeway's
hair.
John Cook
SEV TREK: cartoon spoofs of all the Star Trek shows
URL: http://www.powerup.com.au/~sevloid/toons/sevtrek.htm
Email: <mailto:sev...@powerup.com.au>
Richard Ward
Are you sure his French?
John Cook <sev...@powerup.com.au> wrote in article
<337D0F...@powerup.com.au>...
Ed Tang
On 18 May 1997 14:00:37 GMT, "Richard Ward" <richar...@virgin.net>
wrote:
>Are you sure his French?
>
>John Cook <sev...@powerup.com.au> wrote in article
><337D0F...@powerup.com.au>...
>> Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
The same reason I have a Canadian accent when I'm chinese? The same
reason why the Korean comic I saw on tv the other day had a Texas
accent?
Ed Tang
Timothy Needham
Picard is definately french, his family house is in La Barre (spelling?)
in France.
Tim
James Southall
John Cook wrote:
>
> I've also published the winner of last week's cartoon about Janeway's
> hair.
What do you mean, Janeway's hair? Weren't you aware that Kate Mulgrew
wears a wig?
--
James (mailto:jsou...@geocities.com)
VISIT THE TERRY WOGAN SHRINE! http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ma6jes/wogan.htm
Wake Up to Wogan - 88-91FM, BBC R2 in UK, and Astra Satellite in Europe
*Now the most popular radio show in the UK!* Website now with frames!
Brian Mueller
Richard Ward wrote:
>Are you sure his French?
>
He sure is. Several episodes confirm this, including one in which he
goes home to France for shore leave.
I once met a frenchman who had an English accent. I imagine the
explanation lies in the Norman invasion; many aspects of French were
incorporated in French after this event, and I'm sure that some clans
in France adopted aspects of the English accent.
h...@acsu.buffalo.edu
> Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
I read a couple of answers to this post. As an educator, I have a
favorite response. One day, hopefully before the 24th century arrives,
the world will be the classroom. Anyone will be able to take advantage of
the cirriculum and educators they choose, no matter where in the world
such resources happen to be located. If a Frenchman like Picard has a
residence in Champagne but wants to study at Oxford then so be it. He's
bound to pick up the accent while he's there.
By the way, remember the episode where Data said "...an obscure language
known as French..." and Picard practically scolded him? He he.
Steve Pugh
h...@acsu.buffalo.edu wrote:
>
> In article <337D0F...@powerup.com.au>, sev...@powerup.com.au wrote:
>
> > Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>
> I read a couple of answers to this post. As an educator, I have a
> favorite response. One day, hopefully before the 24th century arrives,
> the world will be the classroom. Anyone will be able to take advantage of
> the cirriculum and educators they choose, no matter where in the world
> such resources happen to be located. If a Frenchman like Picard has a
> residence in Champagne but wants to study at Oxford then so be it. He's
> bound to pick up the accent while he's there.
Well, there are quite a few french students here at Oxford right now,
and none of them leave with anymore of an english accent than they
arrived with. Are you suggesting that as a child, while his accent was
being formed, Picard would have moved away from his family to go to
school. It would have to be quite young to have had such a pronounced
effect on his alnguage. How young can a child make an informed choice
about what sort of education is best for him? Anyway, we know Picard
lived with his afmily until he joined Star Fleet.
My personal theory: everyone in Star Fleet speaks English. English has
been explicitly refered to on screen several times. The young Picard,
already wanting to join Star Fleet and already a fan of Shakespeare
learnt a lot of english by watching videos (or whatever) from the royal
Shakespeare Company, and was influenced by the accents he heard there.
(In particular an actor from the late twentieth century called Patrick
Stewart....)
An interesting point, at least to me, is that in many of the very early
first season scripts Picard is very french. He swears in French, (either
"Where No One Has Gone Before" or "The Last Outpost" I think.) and there
seems to be reference to his frenchness in nearly every episode. That
stuff about flags, etc. Either these scripts were written before Stewart
was cast and a more french Picard was in the writers mind, or they were
put in to try to convince us that this guy really was french.
Also, as a brit, it's kinda fun to listen to Stewart's accent get more
mid-atlantic as the seasons roll past. He sounded so much better early
on, before his voice got all americanised. Hopefully, he'll get a decent
accent back now he's living in the UK again.
Cheers,
Steve
+----------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| Stephen Richard Pugh |
| maf...@dial.pipex.com |
| http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/estate/ax16/ |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------------+
Joyce Harmon
In article <33810F...@dial.pipex.com>, maf...@dial.pipex.com says...
There was an episode in first season that seemed to imply that French was a
dead language, something like Latin, and wasn't spoken as a first language
by people anymore! Data said something about "counting coup" (SP?) and said
it was from the ancient French language - and Picard seemed peeved, and
lectured Data that French was once the language of all civilized people.
But there was a definite implication that French just wasn't spoken anymore.
Joyce
Sarah
Simon Walker wrote:
>
> He actually speaks French all the time, and the Universal Translator
> does the rest, so it's the UT's voice we hear, not Picard's.
>
> Or at least that's my theory.
ROTFL! Excellent theory! Applause!
rs...@lehigh.edu
In article <5lqehn$fkr$2...@kronos.crosslink.net>, jlha...@mail.crosslink.net (Joy
>>mid-atlantic as the seasons roll past. He sounded so much better early
>>on, before his voice got all americanised. Hopefully, he'll get a decent
>>accent back now he's living in the UK again.
>
>There was an episode in first season that seemed to imply that French was a
>dead language, something like Latin, and wasn't spoken as a first language
>by people anymore! Data said something about "counting coup" (SP?) and said
>it was from the ancient French language - and Picard seemed peeved, and
>lectured Data that French was once the language of all civilized people.
>But there was a definite implication that French just wasn't spoken anymore.
>
>Joyce
>
I was in that something like half of all the world's languages (that's an
upper level, since I cann't remember the exact percentage he gave) have
dissappeared since the days of the printing precious and nationalism. It's
really not too unexpected that as the world becomes more interconnected
politically, economically, and technically (i.e. communications), that there
will be even fewer languages spoken in the future than there are now.
rick
"God-schmod, I want my _monkey man_!"
---Bart Simpson
Michael Carter
In message <5lqb4i$4...@neon.airtime.co.uk> -
si...@walker.airtime.co.uk (Simon Walker)Mon, 19 May 1997 18:52:32 GMT
writes:
:>
:>He actually speaks French all the time, and the Universal Translator
:>does the rest, so it's the UT's voice we hear, not Picard's.
:>
:>Or at least that's my theory.
:>
:>
I like this one the best so far. How about a little imagination in
future history. Would it be possible that the EU (economic Union)
amalgamated that entire region of the world and so the borders took on
new
meaning and regional accents were no longer as we would think of them
in the present?
Michael Carter
[ma...@interlog.com]
Angus Huckle
On 19 May 1997 20:52:07 GMT, you wrote:
>In article <33810F...@dial.pipex.com>, maf...@dial.pipex.com says...
>>
>>h...@acsu.buffalo.edu wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <337D0F...@powerup.com.au>, sev...@powerup.com.au wrote:
>>>
>>> > Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>>> <SNIP>
He doesn't have an accent - he's an Englishman speaking English.
Everybody else has accents ;-)
Angus
ps I didn't think his Scottish accent was that good.
Dario Muller
jlha...@mail.crosslink.net (Joyce Harmon) wrote:
>
>There was an episode in first season that seemed to imply that French was a
>dead language, something like Latin, and wasn't spoken as a first language
>by people anymore! Data said something about "counting coup" (SP?) and said
>it was from the ancient French language - and Picard seemed peeved, and
>lectured Data that French was once the language of all civilized people.
>But there was a definite implication that French just wasn't spoken anymore.
>
Sorry, but I don't agree with your argument. A language could be dead
(or be killed) but the old language remains somehow. For example,
Latin America (except Brazil) was conquered by Spain, but nobody there
speaks spanish with the same accent as the Spaniards do. Same opinions
for American - British english accents.
Let's take this not seriously, just like the fact that all species in
ST (even the unknown ones) speaks english.
IMHO, he has a British accent because he had a British Nanny
(thank God she wasn't Pam Drescher)
-----------------------
Dario Muller
da...@super.zippo.com
-----------------------
George Morgan
This is kind of off-subject, but I am reminded of a PBS-"Mystery" series
called "Maigret," where everybody had a French accent but the guy playing
the French detective about whom the series was filmed.
George D. Morgan, gund...@evansville.net
Angus Huckle <huc...@simpl.co.nz> wrote in article
<33821e23...@news.iconz.co.nz>...
vax2.concordia.ca
In article <3382D2...@geocities.com>, James Southall <jsou...@geocities.com> writes...
>George Morgan wrote:
>>
>> This is kind of off-subject, but I am reminded of a PBS-"Mystery" series
>> called "Maigret," where everybody had a French accent but the guy playing
>> the French detective about whom the series was filmed.
>
. . and, as in the case of Jean-Luc Picard, none of the characters
pronounced Maigret's name correctly!
John
Lost Dragon
>Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
In the future, the population of France is
destroyed by a virulent plague, then repopulated
by Englishmen...
Or.
Far in the Future, the European nations become
so intertwined, that a new accent emerges, and
sounds surprisingly like an English accent.
Or...
Does it matter? Nah.
/| .oo__. .-----.----------Lost-Dragon-----------.-----. .__oo. |\
| \| ,-'' | _O_ | lost...@cris.com | _O_ | ``-, |/ |
`,_/,(_)\_ | | | Member: Ultima Dragons | | | _/(_),\_,'
_.,-=(_)_)_ ''`-----` http://www.cris.com/~lostdrgn/ '-----'`` _(_(_)=-,._
shrl...@scilab.uct.ac.za
In article <3381E7...@dial.pipex.com> Steve Pugh <maf...@dial.pipex.com> writes:
>From: Steve Pugh <maf...@dial.pipex.com>
>Subject: Re: Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:04:37 -0700
>Brian Mueller wrote:
>> I once met a frenchman who had an English accent. I imagine the
>> explanation lies in the Norman invasion; many aspects of French were
> ^^^^^^
>> incorporated in French after this event, and I'm sure that some clans
> ^^^^^^
>A typo I assume?
>> in France adopted aspects of the English accent.
>This is rubbish. In the eleventh century, neither english nor french as
>we know them today existed. Nor did the accents today associated with
>them. Norman French was the language of the ruling classes in england
>for up to two centuries afterwards. Any english influence on the french
>language came along later, with the cultural domination of the world by
>english speakers in the twentieth century. ("le weekend" etc.)
You're all failing to see the larger picture. You can't direct your questions
to the future, you've got to stay in the here and now. Picard has an English
accent 'coz the guy's English. The makers of Star Trek, having this warped
picture of humanity constituting the great moral fibre of the galaxy in the
future, thought it would be all PC to have a non-American at the helm of the
federation's flagship. French was the idea, but they realised that Gerard
DePardieu's (sp?) accent wouldn't work for the essentially shallow US
audiences. So they got an Englishman in the hopes that they could pass the
whole thing off with trekkie maniacs like all of you coming out with bullshit
explanations for why his accent is not French. It has nothing to do with the
future state of the world. After all, it being the 24th cent., did anyone
wonder about a slightly more puzzling question : why the hell is the man bald?
L
Clint Pewtress
In article <337D0F...@powerup.com.au>, sev...@powerup.com.au says...
>
>Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>
A good question. Virtually every WW2 movie had despicable nazis sporting
English accents. Somewhere along the line producers began equating a
Shakespearean English accent as 'foreign' or 'alien'. Join Starfleet, travel
to exotic worlds and meet... descendants of Portsmouth fishermen?
Even so, for the son of a French winemaker, Picard should have a better
accent than proper Oxford.
Stephane Melancon
h...@acsu.buffalo.edu wrote:
>In article <337D0F...@powerup.com.au>, sev...@powerup.com.au wrote:
>> Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>I read a couple of answers to this post. As an educator, I have a
>favorite response. One day, hopefully before the 24th century arrives,
>the world will be the classroom. Anyone will be able to take advantage of
>the cirriculum and educators they choose, no matter where in the world
>such resources happen to be located. If a Frenchman like Picard has a
>residence in Champagne but wants to study at Oxford then so be it. He's
>bound to pick up the accent while he's there.
>By the way, remember the episode where Data said "...an obscure language
>known as French..." and Picard practically scolded him? He he.
>howie
>http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~hss/
Well believe it or not, I`ve got the real answer from the man himself.
He basically said that English is the language that everyone uses and
since Picard always wants to be perfect, then he can`t have any
accents.
Well said I should say.
P.S. Since my first language is French, I wonder what you mean by "He
He". :)
Stephen
Jonas Grumby
The 1701-D having a French captain was Roddenberry's tribute to the French
explorer's of Earth's past (Jacques Cartier, etc). But, when actually
casting the role, the producers apparently decided not to limit themselves
to casting a purely French actor. The role went to Patrick Stewart, a
Brit. Okay, fine, so Picard could have studied in Britain for a time, and
for whatever reason he purposely and intently cultivated an educated
British accent (as only Picard could). Good enough.
I just realized that the producers of Voyager had a similar problem when
initially casting the role of the captain. At first they had cast
Genevieve Bujold, a French-Canadian actress, with a noticeble (but not
unwelcome) French accent, to play Captain Kathryn Janeway, someone of Irish
descent!! Or was the Janeway name and ancestry decided on after Bujold
left and Kate Mulgrew was brought in to play the captain?
Lyndon J Allen
>Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>
>when he's from France. So this week in the Sev Trek Cartoon Competition,
>I've done a cartoon asking that same question, with you having to
>provide the answer. The more humorous the answer, the better! Check it
>out and other Sev Trek cartoons at:
I always thought it was because he went to an English school?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lyndon J Allen
lyn...@timeslice.demon.co.uk
http://www.timeslice.demon.co.uk/
"and I interrupt myself to bring you this!"
Murray Walker
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Steve Pugh
Hmm, nice of you to cut the rest of my post, the bit where I talk about
Stewart's accent as oppossed to Picard's. I suppose that didn't support
your viewpoint.
And if you're so anti "trekkie maniacs" what the fuck are you doing
reading Star Trek newsgroups?
Roddenberry wanted a Frenchman to play Picard, it took quite some
persuading from the other producers to get him to agree to Stewart.
Of course, the real reason why, Picard has an English accent is that
the actor is English. I don't think you'll find a single person here who
is not aware of that fact. However, the purpose of at least one of the
newsgroups this thread is in is to speculate about the internal
mechanics of the Star Trek iniverse, in which context this discussion is
perfectly valid.
You ask why Picard is bald. By your own logic the answer should be
obvious: Stewart is bald. To which I should add that Stewart auditioned
for the part both with and without a wig and the producers liked him
more without.
In terms of the Trek universe, the answer could be any one of the
following: There is no cure for baldness. There is a cure, but Picard
prefers not to use it 'cos he likes his bald head. There is a cure, but
Picard is allergic to the drugs used. There is a cure, but Picard is too
proud to use it.
Cheers,
Steve
--
Scott Kellogg
: Well believe it or not, I`ve got the real answer from the man himself.
: He basically said that English is the language that everyone uses and
: since Picard always wants to be perfect, then he can`t have any
: accents.
Sounds like an excuse from a bad actor for his poor performance.
If he's not supposed to have an accent, then why did he choose an English
one?
Scott Kellogg
(Please note that the American Accent is more historically correct. The
English accent mutated after the American Colonists left. Apparently, they
imported a new king with the current English accent, the Nobility copied
his accent and it spread. Further, there are a lot more Americans today
than there are Brits, so there is no reason for the English accent to be
considered more proper.)
Paul Clifford
As part of the French educational system, English is taught. The students
are taught to speak with an accent that is more British than American. If
you've heard a Frenchman who is fluent in English, you'd see what I mean.
The stereotypical French accent comes from those French who don't speak
English fluently.
or
The universal translator could be causing this. The question would arise
as to why other species don't sound British as well. I don't know that
answer, but it is a possibility.
Lost Dragon <lost...@cris.com> wrote in article
<3383f041...@news.concentric.net>...
Mojo
On Thu, 22 May 1997 15:39:40 -0700, Steve Pugh <maf...@dial.pipex.com>
wrote:
>
> You ask why Picard is bald. By your own logic the answer should be
>obvious: Stewart is bald. To which I should add that Stewart auditioned
>for the part both with and without a wig and the producers liked him
>more without.
> In terms of the Trek universe, the answer could be any one of the
>following: There is no cure for baldness. There is a cure, but Picard
>prefers not to use it 'cos he likes his bald head. There is a cure, but
>Picard is allergic to the drugs used. There is a cure, but Picard is too
>proud to use it.
Hi, Steve,
I'd like to add another to your list of why Picard is bald. I'm sure
quite a few posters might have already heard it. I think it may have
been Roddenberry who said something along the following lines: ". .
of course, they probably will have found a cure for baldness in the
24th century, but by then, nobody will care anymore. . ."
I always liked this explanation, because it indicates a mature move
away from current day obsessions with outward appearances.
Regards,
MOJO
*************************************************************
"Get a life!" people taunt. Once I had a life, but I lost it
somewhere. Was it stolen? Sold? Where is my life now? Who
has it? Will I ever get it back? I hope whoever has my life
is enjoying it...
*************************************************************
Pollychrome
On 22 May 1997, Jonas Grumby wrote:
| The 1701-D having a French captain was Roddenberry's tribute to the French
| explorer's of Earth's past (Jacques Cartier, etc). But, when actually
| casting the role, the producers apparently decided not to limit themselves
| to casting a purely French actor. The role went to Patrick Stewart, a
| Brit. Okay, fine, so Picard could have studied in Britain for a time, and
| for whatever reason he purposely and intently cultivated an educated
| British accent (as only Picard could). Good enough.
Can you imagine Depardue (have I spelt it right?) as the captain - gasp!
Cheers,
-Laura Anne Seabrook | c970...@alinga.newcastle.edu.au
| http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/6633
Bill Pollard
Paul Clifford wrote:
>
> As part of the French educational system, English is taught. The students
> are taught to speak with an accent that is more British than American. If
> you've heard a Frenchman who is fluent in English, you'd see what I mean.
Jacques Parizeau, the former Premier of Quebec, studied English at a
London university. Whenever he spoke English to reporters, he would use
expressions like "By Jove!"
Mojo
On 22 May 1997 14:33:33 GMT, "Jonas Grumby" <jo...@erehwon.com> wrote:
>The 1701-D having a French captain was Roddenberry's tribute to the French
>explorer's of Earth's past (Jacques Cartier, etc). But, when actually
>casting the role, the producers apparently decided not to limit themselves
>to casting a purely French actor. The role went to Patrick Stewart, a
>Brit. Okay, fine, so Picard could have studied in Britain for a time, and
>for whatever reason he purposely and intently cultivated an educated
>British accent (as only Picard could). Good enough.
>
>I just realized that the producers of Voyager had a similar problem when
>initially casting the role of the captain. At first they had cast
>Genevieve Bujold, a French-Canadian actress, with a noticeble (but not
>unwelcome) French accent, to play Captain Kathryn Janeway, someone of Irish
>descent!! Or was the Janeway name and ancestry decided on after Bujold
>left and Kate Mulgrew was brought in to play the captain?
>
>
Hi, Jonas,
I know that Genevieve Bujold has a "noticeable French accent" when
speaking out of character. However, I have seen her in several roles
where she speaks with other accents. The movie 'Anne of the Thousand
Days' (I believe Richard Burton may have costarred in this, could
someone please correct me if I'm wrong) in which she played Anne
Boleyn is the first which springs to mind.
My point being, that maybe her accent had nothing to do with her being
chosen. Perhaps, had she continued in the role, she would have played
Janeway as using an American accent, which she is quite capable of
doing.
Regards,
MOJO
PS
I have mentioned this elsewhere, but has
anyone else noticed a certain prepondency to
include references to things French and San Franciscan
in Trek?
Jonas Grumby
Mojo <chri...@southwest.com.au> wrote in article
<33853ee8...@news.southwest.com.au>...
| On Thu, 22 May 1997 15:39:40 -0700, Steve Pugh <maf...@dial.pipex.com>
| wrote:
|
| >
| > You ask why Picard is bald. By your own logic the answer should be
| >obvious: Stewart is bald. To which I should add that Stewart auditioned
| >for the part both with and without a wig and the producers liked him
| >more without.
| > In terms of the Trek universe, the answer could be any one of the
| >following: There is no cure for baldness. There is a cure, but Picard
| >prefers not to use it 'cos he likes his bald head. There is a cure, but
| >Picard is allergic to the drugs used. There is a cure, but Picard is too
| >proud to use it.
Perhaps you missed this scene in "Star Trek Generations II: The
Wrath of Q".
(Picard has just opened his birthday present from Dr. Crusher
-- a toupee)
Picard: Why, Bev, this is... interesting. (uncomfortably
examining the toupee)
Crusher: For patients your age I usually prescribe Folinex 5.
Picard: I'm allergic to Folinex.
Crusher: Exactly.
Jonas Grumby
Mojo <chri...@southwest.com.au> wrote in article
<3385a7fe...@news.southwest.com.au>...
|
| I have mentioned this elsewhere, but has
| anyone else noticed a certain prepondency to
| include references to things French and San Franciscan
| in Trek?
No, but now that you mention it, there's lots of
French references.
- Picard is from France (note: for the purposes of this
list it would be redundant to count any references that
arise out of Picard's French origin)
- Sisko from New Orleans
- UFP headquarters in Paris (Star Trek VI - The Undiscovered
Country)
- Mark Alaimo (Gul Dukat) playing a man from New Orleans
in the poker playing scene in TNG's "Time's Arrow"
- Tom Paris (!)
- New Paris Colonies (TOS episode?)
- Sandrine's, the French bar in Voyager's holodeck
- TNG episode where Q temporarily transports some
Enterprise crewmembers to a planet to do battle with
aliens in "Napoleonic" military uniforms.
PJM
John Cook wrote:
>
> Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>
> when he's from France. So this week in the Sev Trek Cartoon Competition,
Maybe he has a universal translator on?
Alan Woodley
Shr...@scilab.uct.ac.za wrote:
(in reponse to why Capt Picard has a french accent when he is english
> You're all failing to see the larger picture. You can't direct your
questions
> to the future, you've got to stay in the here and now. Picard has an
English
> accent 'coz the guy's English. The makers of Star Trek, having this
warped
> picture of humanity constituting the great moral fibre of the galaxy in
the
> future, thought it would be all PC to have a non-American at the helm of
the
> federation's flagship. French was the idea, but they realised that Gerard
> DePardieu's (sp?) accent wouldn't work for the essentially shallow US
> audiences. So they got an Englishman in the hopes that they could pass
the
> whole thing off with trekkie maniacs like all of you coming out with
bullshit
> explanations for why his accent is not French. It has nothing to do with
the
> future state of the world. After all, it being the 24th cent., did anyone
> wonder about a slightly more puzzling question : why the hell is the man
bald?
> L
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------Why is the man blad you may
ask? Well the answer lies in the mist of Star Trek history. I'm sure we all
know of the egnies War (Space Seed TOS, Star Trek 2) and we all know how
25% of the world was taken over by genetically enginered supermen. To make
sure that nothing like that ever happened again humanity had to put a stop
to genetic engineering. And although genetic enginering can't directly
alter genes to that degger yet in 400 years I'm sure that whould be able
to.(Comsidering they change change matter into energy annd have been able
to travel faster than the speed od light for 350 years). Therefore some
human inperfecties such as bladness had to continue. And that is why
Captian Picard is Bald.P.S. I know you where only joking but I still had to
reponsd.
Yours Alan Woodley
Jorr
Its even deeper than that...can you imagine...English people living in France?!
That's how it happens TODAY! Hell the tunnel makes that easier than ever now!
I imagine that they get to France a bit more easily in the 26th (or
whatever) century than the do now. I work with a Frenchman TODAY who not only
has a VERY American name, but also speaks better English (complete with accent)
than another workmate Englishman!!
Spooks me!!
However, in the 26th century, especially when there ARE NO MORE countries or
great walls, or bad beer, I think accents would fade significantly as the
galactic melting pot takes over!!! NOBODY should have ANY accent! They should
all speak like the CYLONS did in BattleStar Galactica!!!
Jorr
In article <3381E7...@dial.pipex.com>, maf...@dial.pipex.com says...
>
>Brian Mueller wrote:
>
>> I once met a frenchman who had an English accent. I imagine the
>> explanation lies in the Norman invasion; many aspects of French were
> ^^^^^^
>> incorporated in French after this event, and I'm sure that some clans
> ^^^^^^
>A typo I assume?
>
>> in France adopted aspects of the English accent.
>
>This is rubbish. In the eleventh century, neither english nor french as
>we know them today existed. Nor did the accents today associated with
>them. Norman French was the language of the ruling classes in england
>for up to two centuries afterwards. Any english influence on the french
>language came along later, with the cultural domination of the world by
>english speakers in the twentieth century. ("le weekend" etc.)
>
J. Link
In message <01bc6833$f8ef89c0$905212cb@z-tek> - "Alan Woodley"
It seems as if baldness may be "in" in the future as Captain Sisko (Deep Space
9) and the Holographic Doctor (Voyager) are also bald.
|^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^|
| Anti-spam enabled, remove the X |
| from my address when replying |
| jli...@best.com |
| |
| Yes, I use OS/2. Lots of people do. |
| Get over it. |
| J.Link |
| |
^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
Scott Kellogg
If there are no more accents any more and everyone speaks Perfect
English, then why does Uhura speak Swahili, Chekov speak Russian,
Chakotay (sp?) speak, his native tribe stuff, Scott have a Scottish
accent and O'Brien have his Irish one?
Face it. Picard's accent is a product of BAD ACTING on the part of an
English actor.
Scott Kellogg
Chris
I think maybe in the future, people will just finally learn that a
person's physical attributes are not as important as the inner
attributes. People might have learned not to judge others on their
physical appearance, so baldness is probably not a factor in anything of
consequence, because people don't pay attention to things like that.
So the larger question I see is, just how long is it going to take us to
get to that point where we aren't so vain and image-driven that we pay
attention to insignificant details such as a person's physical
appearance?
Chris
Areewan Haorangsi
Dario Muller (da...@super.zippo.com) wrote:
| IMHO, he has a British accent because he had a British Nanny
| (thank God she wasn't Pam Drescher)
| -----------------------
| Dario Muller
| da...@super.zippo.com
| -----------------------
A British nanny for Picard? I concur:)
T.
Steve Pugh
Scott Kellogg wrote:
>
> Stephane Melancon (mela...@microtec.net) wrote:
> : >> Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>
> : He basically said that English is the language that everyone uses and
> : since Picard always wants to be perfect, then he can`t have any
> : accents.
The man himself? Do you mean Picard ? ;-)
Or Roddenberry? Or Stewart?
For the moment I'll assume you mean Stewart.
> Sounds like an excuse from a bad actor for his poor performance.
Bad actor? Stewart? He's just about one of the few people on the show
who can act. The fact that he does well over fifty percent of the
episodes on auto-pilot is simply because of the unchallenging nature of
the material.
(And the huge salary they pay him...)
> If he's not supposed to have an accent, then why did he choose an English
> one?
Stewart didn't choose an english accent, he was born with one (alright
he was born with a yorkshire accent and now speaks with an RP one), for
him to use an adopt an american accent for TNG would have been as bogus
as him adopting a french one. As I've pointed out before Stewart/Picards
accent did become more mid-atlantic as the series progressed, simply
because Stewart was living in California.
Picard, if we follow the arguement given above, needed to be fluent in
English to excel in Star Fleet, he choose to learn British English,
simply because Picard's nature would move him towards the purer, more
grammatically structured english of Britain. He is a Shakespeare fan
after all.
> Scott Kellogg
> (Please note that the American Accent is more historically correct. The
> English accent mutated after the American Colonists left. Apparently, they
> imported a new king with the current English accent, the Nobility copied
> his accent and it spread. Further, there are a lot more Americans today
> than there are Brits, so there is no reason for the English accent to be
> considered more proper.)
I've heard that arguement before. Languages evolve, accents evolve. So
what if the American accent is closer to the sevententh century english
accent? And which american accent are you talking about? New England?
South? Mid-West? Californian? They all sound different to me, and I'm a
brit.
And in Britain there is an even greater diversity in accents. There's RP
(received pronunciation, formerly beloved of newsreaders), cocney,
geordie, scouse, west country, brummie, yorkshier, home counties, east
anglian, lowland scots, highland scots, welsh, irish, etc. etc. These
accents, and the associated localised dialect words, can differ from
each other much more than east coast and west coast american accents,
despite the far vaster distance.
And then there are the accents in the rest of the english speaking
world: canadian, australian, new zealand (yes these last two are notably
different), jamacian, etc. etc.
Cheers,
Brian Mueller
kell...@netcom.com (Scott Kellogg) wrote:
>Face it. Picard's accent is a product of BAD ACTING on the part of an
>English actor.
A few months ago, I met a man who had lived in France all his life,
and came to California as a tourist. He spoke with an accent that
sounded quite similar to an English one in many ways.
The similarity of the accent and of the languages may be attributed to
the Norman (french) invasion of England in 1066. The French ruled the
english courts for a while before England reclaimed itself (England
doesn't take that kind of shit). In any case, that is why longer words
are considered more dignified than shorter words; for example,
excrement is considered more dignified than shit. This is bacause, at
the time, the English language had primarily short words and the
french language had primarily long words. Piccard may be related to
some of those who participated in the norman invasion, thus having an
accent similar to those of English decent, while in fact he is french.
Klaus Günther Beck
question. BAld is beautiful and only un-enlightened people or those with
an inferiority complex make silly remarks about baldness or get
depressed when their hairs go. My believe is, that in the 24th century
baldness is still there because nobody bothers anymore. It isn´t
important. And perhaps there is a possibility to "cure" baldness ( like
"curing" pregnancies ) but Jean Luc simply chose not to use it? Does
hair really matter in a time when You meet dozens of extraterrestrials
who would be a goldmine for every beauty-surgeon?
Steve Pugh
Brian Mueller wrote:
>
> kell...@netcom.com (Scott Kellogg) wrote:
>
> >Face it. Picard's accent is a product of BAD ACTING on the part of an
> >English actor.
Why? Stewart was never asked to play Picard with a french accent. Doing
so would probably harmed viewing figures. (Think of the negative
reaxtion to Janeway's voice.)
> A few months ago, I met a man who had lived in France all his life,
> and came to California as a tourist. He spoke with an accent that
> sounded quite similar to an English one in many ways.
He probably learnt English from British rather the American sources.
> The similarity of the accent and of the languages may be attributed to
> the Norman (french) invasion of England in 1066. The French ruled the
> english courts for a while before England reclaimed itself (England
> doesn't take that kind of shit).
Rubbish. The Normans invaded England, for a while Normas ruled both
Normandy and England. The language of both courts is know called
Norman-French, this language bears some resemblance to modern French.
Over time the english throne became more important than the norman
duchy. However, over the same period more and more french land was being
added to the english posssesion. This reached it's height under Henry II
(the aquitaine empire). Later the Hundred Years War was fought between
England and France and by the end of it England had lost all her frech
lands (except Calais). The rulers of England were and are still
descended from those norman kings.
> In any case, that is why longer words
> are considered more dignified than shorter words; for example,
> excrement is considered more dignified than shit. This is bacause, at
> the time, the English language had primarily short words and the
> french language had primarily long words.
Substitute Latin for French and Anglo-Saxon for English. You must
remember that Latin was the language of religeon and legal documents in
both countries at the time. Modern English is a mixture of latin (via
french) elements and anglo-saxon elements. With the latin being seen as
more sophisticated. This blending of the languages took centuries.
> Piccard may be related to
> some of those who participated in the norman invasion, thus having an
> accent similar to those of English decent, while in fact he is french.
More rubbish. William I had an army several thousand strong. By the 24th
century, everyone in England and France, (excepting recent arrivals from
Africa etc.) can probably be said to be descended from one of them.
All of which is pointless. Accents evolve over time, no-onein 1066 spoke
with anything resembling a modern french or english accent. Accents are
not genetic, they are aquired. Picard's english accent would have been
acquired whilst he was learning english. The fact that he speaks french
with an english accent is what should be worrying us. ;-)
Dave McDougall
In article <01bc67bf$eec6ed40$075aa8c0@robd>, Jonas Grumby
<jo...@erehwon.com> writes
<snip>
>- TNG episode where Q temporarily transports some
> Enterprise crewmembers to a planet to do battle with
> aliens in "Napoleonic" military uniforms.
Hopelessly inaccurate uniforms I might add. For starters; Q in the
uniform of a French Napoleonic general's uniform. - Ahem, I think not. -
It's the wrong colour for a start.
Really, couldn't someone invloved in the making of the show have popped
out of the studio and bought a book of uniforms for about $10? If they
were that short of cash they could have gone to the public library.
--
"Knowing the lions' preference for red meat, the
spamalopes remained calm but wary."
Dave McDougall
Dave McDougall
In article <kelloggsE...@netcom.com>, Scott Kellogg
<kell...@netcom.com> writes
>(Please note that the American Accent is more historically correct. The
>English accent mutated after the American Colonists left. Apparently, they
>imported a new king with the current English accent, the Nobility copied
>his accent and it spread.
Sorry, but that is complete and utter rubbish.
There is no such thing as "an English accent" and there never has been;
just as there is no such thing as one American accent (or French,
German, Italian...) There are loads of different regional accents in the
UK (probably hundreds) depending on where the speaker comes from. In
fact, there is a lot of variation even within quite small areas. I live
in Edinburgh, Scotland, and I can think of quite a number of
identifiable accents from just this one city. I am sure there are loads
of different accents in the US as well!
Dave
Dave McDougall
In article <3387B3...@dial.pipex.com>, Steve Pugh
<steve...@dial.pipex.com> writes
Well said that man!
Dave McDougall
In article <338728f7...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>, Brian Mueller
<muld...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>The similarity of the accent and of the languages may be attributed to
>the Norman (french) invasion of England in 1066. The French ruled the
>english courts for a while before England reclaimed itself (England
>doesn't take that kind of shit).
Why, oh why do people insist on mangling history?
As you point out, the invasion of 1066 was Norman. This is not the same
as saying it was a French invasion. William was Duke of Normandy. There
was no unified state of France as we know it today.
I am not sure what you mean by the "French ruling the English courts for
a while before England reclaimed itself." Basically (very), following
the Norman invasion the power in England devolved largely into the hands
of the Norman nobility. Gradually (after several generations) the Norman
families ceased being "foreign" (i.e Norman) and came to be, simply,
English nobility.
I'd also like to take this opportunity to point out that for a long
time, Scotland (and for a lesser period, Wales) were seperate kingdoms
from England.
Thats enough pontificating for now...
Kazuya Uesaki
Does Picard speak English?
My question may sound strange but because of the existance of the device
so called 'Universal Translater" it is possible for every Starfleet
officer to comminicate each other by using his/her/its native language.
So picard may speak French and the Universal Translater translate it to
English for viewers.
K. Uesaki
Steve Pugh
We sometimes hear Picard speaking French, particularly in season one, he
even swears in french on one occasion, unless the translator is
switching itself on and off.....
Also there have been references to English in the scripts. So unless the
translator turns "english" into "french" every time Riker speaks to
Picard the converstaion wouldn't make sense. Sorry, but everyone in
StarFleet uses english. (exception: the benzites)
Johnny Lamar Rhyne
>
>Does Picard speak English?
>My question may sound strange but because of the existance of the
device
>so called 'Universal Translater" it is possible for every Starfleet
>officer to comminicate each other by using his/her/its native
language.
>So picard may speak French and the Universal Translater translate it
to
>English for viewers.
Possibly, but the problem is with translating is that most language
don't translate exaclty to another language and sometimes there is no
word in one that exists in another.
Plus, if they were all speaking their native language, the movement
of their mouths would not match what was being heard.
>K. Uesaki
--
Mr. H.R. Bradshaw(Deceased)
Head Minister, Ministry of Silly Walks
*Is your life in a rut? Then head down
to your local silly walks recruiter today.*
Join now and we will send you a free Shrubbery.
yms...@ix.netcom.com
Scott Kellogg wrote:
>
> If there are no more accents any more and everyone speaks Perfect
> English, then why does Uhura speak Swahili, Chekov speak Russian,
> Chakotay (sp?) speak, his native tribe stuff, Scott have a Scottish
> accent and O'Brien have his Irish one?
>
> English actor.
>
Okay, this is at least the fourth time you've mentioned Stewart's "bad
acting". We get your point - you don't like Patrick Stewart.
Fine.
Go away.
Jak Din
> Does Picard speak English?
> My question may sound strange but because of the existance of the device
> so called 'Universal Translater" it is possible for every Starfleet
> officer to comminicate each other by using his/her/its native language.
> So picard may speak French and the Universal Translater translate it to
> English for viewers.
>
> K. Uesaki
I agree completely with Uesaki-san. We don't know what language anyone
might be speaking at any one time if their personal "Universal
Translators" are on and activated. We just don't KNOW if they have it on
or not. Or is it always "ON" or not.
I have one query, though, concerning this topic of language:
Isn't English (any accent) the Starfleet language? And if so, aren't ALL
Starfleet Personnel required to speak this language? I am just wondering,
so don't jump all over me if I happen to be wrong about this. Thanx.
- jak din
Jim Anderson
Well, DUH!
I've got a very good reason - Patrick Steward is English!!!!!
email address is fake.
On 22 May 1997 04:53:28 GMT, w...@huron.net (Clint Pewtress) wrote:
>In article <337D0F...@powerup.com.au>, sev...@powerup.com.au says...
>>
>>Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>>
>
> A good question. Virtually every WW2 movie had despicable nazis sporting
>English accents. Somewhere along the line producers began equating a
>Shakespearean English accent as 'foreign' or 'alien'. Join Starfleet, travel
>to exotic worlds and meet... descendants of Portsmouth fishermen?
> Even so, for the son of a French winemaker, Picard should have a better
>accent than proper Oxford.
>
>
THS
On Sat, 24 May 1997 20:34:13 -0700, Steve Pugh <steve...@dial.pipex.com>
wrote:
>The fact that he speaks french
>with an english accent is what should be worrying us. ;-)
dacor!(or somethin'): I had only seen the german dubbed series when I
watched First Contact in original: I was *very* astonished when I heard
Picard pronounce his own name like "Jean-*look*"!
THS
Remove NOSPAM. for real address
mailto://NOSPAM....@unet.univie.ac.at
http://unet.univie.ac.at/~a9007122
Duncan Barrett
I tend to agree that starfleet speaks mainly english - imagine the
difficulties if the translator stopped working. Also, many klingons (and
perhaps romulans etc. too) appear to have learened english as they often
speak unsurely and quote things
(untranslated) in their natiuve languages.
D
Steve Pugh <steve...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in article
<33889F...@dial.pipex.com>...
> Kazuya Uesaki wrote:
> >
> > Does Picard speak English?
> > My question may sound strange but because of the existance of the
device
> > so called 'Universal Translater" it is possible for every Starfleet
> > officer to comminicate each other by using his/her/its native language.
> > So picard may speak French and the Universal Translater translate it to
> > English for viewers.
>
Duncan Barrett
Perhaps people have "evolved" beyond such shallow concerns as appearance
(however, many chartacters would seem to contradfict this).
Steve Pugh <maf...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in article
<3384CB...@dial.pipex.com>...
> shrl...@scilab.uct.ac.za wrote:
> >
> > In article <3381E7...@dial.pipex.com> Steve Pugh
<maf...@dial.pipex.com> writes:
> > >From: Steve Pugh <maf...@dial.pipex.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
> > >Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 11:04:37 -0700
> >
> > >Brian Mueller wrote:
> >
> > >> I once met a frenchman who had an English accent. I imagine the
> > >> explanation lies in the Norman invasion; many aspects of French were
> > > ^^^^^^
> > >> incorporated in French after this event, and I'm sure that some
clans
> > > ^^^^^^
> > >A typo I assume?
> >
> > >> in France adopted aspects of the English accent.
> >
> > >This is rubbish. In the eleventh century, neither english nor french
as
> > >we know them today existed. Nor did the accents today associated with
> > >them. Norman French was the language of the ruling classes in england
> > >for up to two centuries afterwards. Any english influence on the
french
> > >language came along later, with the cultural domination of the world
by
> > >english speakers in the twentieth century. ("le weekend" etc.)
> >
> > You're all failing to see the larger picture. You can't direct your
questions
> > to the future, you've got to stay in the here and now. Picard has an
English
> > accent 'coz the guy's English. The makers of Star Trek, having this
warped
> > picture of humanity constituting the great moral fibre of the galaxy in
the
> > future, thought it would be all PC to have a non-American at the helm
of the
> > federation's flagship. French was the idea, but they realised that
Gerard
> > DePardieu's (sp?) accent wouldn't work for the essentially shallow US
> > audiences. So they got an Englishman in the hopes that they could pass
the
> > whole thing off with trekkie maniacs like all of you coming out with
bullshit
> > explanations for why his accent is not French. It has nothing to do
with the
> > future state of the world. After all, it being the 24th cent., did
anyone
> > wonder about a slightly more puzzling question : why the hell is the
man bald?
> > L
>
>
> Hmm, nice of you to cut the rest of my post, the bit where I talk about
> Stewart's accent as oppossed to Picard's. I suppose that didn't support
> your viewpoint.
> And if you're so anti "trekkie maniacs" what the fuck are you doing
> reading Star Trek newsgroups?
> Roddenberry wanted a Frenchman to play Picard, it took quite some
> persuading from the other producers to get him to agree to Stewart.
>
> Of course, the real reason why, Picard has an English accent is that
> the actor is English. I don't think you'll find a single person here who
> is not aware of that fact. However, the purpose of at least one of the
> newsgroups this thread is in is to speculate about the internal
> mechanics of the Star Trek iniverse, in which context this discussion is
> perfectly valid.
>
> You ask why Picard is bald. By your own logic the answer should be
> obvious: Stewart is bald. To which I should add that Stewart auditioned
> for the part both with and without a wig and the producers liked him
> more without.
> In terms of the Trek universe, the answer could be any one of the
> following: There is no cure for baldness. There is a cure, but Picard
> prefers not to use it 'cos he likes his bald head. There is a cure, but
> Picard is allergic to the drugs used. There is a cure, but Picard is too
> proud to use it.
>
> Cheers,
Duncan Barrett
However, even if he lives in France that doesn't explain a name like
"Jean-Luc Picard".
(besides, we've heard much of his family history and i think they were all
french
- see generations, journey's end etc.)
Jorr <ja...@erols.com> wrote in article <5m6q47$6...@winter.erols.com>...
> Its even deeper than that...can you imagine...English people living in
France?!
> That's how it happens TODAY! Hell the tunnel makes that easier than
ever now!
> I imagine that they get to France a bit more easily in the 26th (or
> whatever) century than the do now. I work with a Frenchman TODAY who not
only
> has a VERY American name, but also speaks better English (complete with
accent)
> than another workmate Englishman!!
>
> Spooks me!!
>
> However, in the 26th century, especially when there ARE NO MORE countries
or
> great walls, or bad beer, I think accents would fade significantly as the
> galactic melting pot takes over!!! NOBODY should have ANY accent! They
should
> all speak like the CYLONS did in BattleStar Galactica!!!
>
> Jorr
>
> In article <3381E7...@dial.pipex.com>, maf...@dial.pipex.com says...
> >
> >Brian Mueller wrote:
> >
> >> I once met a frenchman who had an English accent. I imagine the
> >> explanation lies in the Norman invasion; many aspects of French were
> > ^^^^^^
> >> incorporated in French after this event, and I'm sure that some clans
> > ^^^^^^
> >A typo I assume?
> >
> >> in France adopted aspects of the English accent.
> >
> >This is rubbish. In the eleventh century, neither english nor french as
> >we know them today existed. Nor did the accents today associated with
> >them. Norman French was the language of the ruling classes in england
> >for up to two centuries afterwards. Any english influence on the french
> >language came along later, with the cultural domination of the world by
> >english speakers in the twentieth century. ("le weekend" etc.)
> >
Victor Lin
Ther Universal Translator theory is problematic. StarFleet
would not be very smart to allow crews to not have a common language
in case the UT short circuits.
-vk
Joann Lawler
In article <5mfaq3$f...@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> darryl...@bigfoot.com (Darryl Levine) writes:
>We can't know for sure whether Picard is speaking French or not. But
>assuming that he really is speaking English, then as to why he speaks
>it with an English accent (as opposed to Australian, American,
>Canadian, or Scottish accent) is because Jean-Luc was taught English
>by teachers from England, and not from those other places.
You know, if you post explanations this sensible, you'll be ignored forever
:-)
Darryl Levine
jak...@po.iijnet.or.jp (Jak Din) wrote:
>> Does Picard speak English?
>> My question may sound strange but because of the existance of the device
>> so called 'Universal Translater" it is possible for every Starfleet
>> officer to comminicate each other by using his/her/its native language.
>> So picard may speak French and the Universal Translater translate it to
>> English for viewers.
>>
>> K. Uesaki
>I agree completely with Uesaki-san. We don't know what language anyone
>might be speaking at any one time if their personal "Universal
>Translators" are on and activated. We just don't KNOW if they have it on
>or not. Or is it always "ON" or not.
We can't know for sure whether Picard is speaking French or not. But
assuming that he really is speaking English, then as to why he speaks
it with an English accent (as opposed to Australian, American,
Canadian, or Scottish accent) is because Jean-Luc was taught English
by teachers from England, and not from those other places.
________________
Darryl Levine
Montreal, Quebec
Canada
________________
<<Pensez-vous que ça a du bon sens qu'on ait si peu
d'enfants au Québec? On est une des races blanches
qui a le moins d'enfants.>> -- Lucien Bouchard
Chris Morris
You also need to remember, Star Trek is not real!!!! Picard has a
english accent because Patrick Stewart is originally from England!
Picard is bald because Patrick Stewart is! The Universal Communicator
was developed as a unique way to describe why everyone speaks english.
Pretty soon you people will be saying that the Universal Communicator
includes a hologram so people's mouths move to english words... common
it is just a show, a damn good show. You don't need to explain
everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
G-Byte
On the topic of the translator, how does it know when NOT to
translate. For example, when Picard speaks to Worf in a few words of
Klingon, and Worf answers back in Klingon.
J'ai envie du poulet ce soir!
Bravo! Now THAT is funny! *applause* I'm in total agreement! :)
-----------------------------Tadd Barnes-----------------------------
-"Han me Boogie..." Ta...@lsds.com "Haggis?"
-Grandpa Jabba Barn...@bigvax.alfred.edu -Remerez
http://www.lsds.com/~tadd
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-
CFB1
Dave McDougall wrote:
>
> In article <01bc67bf$eec6ed40$075aa8c0@robd>, Jonas Grumby
> <jo...@erehwon.com> writes
>
> <snip>
> >- TNG episode where Q temporarily transports some
> > Enterprise crewmembers to a planet to do battle with
> > aliens in "Napoleonic" military uniforms.
>
> Hopelessly inaccurate uniforms I might add. For starters; Q in the
> uniform of a French Napoleonic general's uniform. - Ahem, I think not. -
> It's the wrong colour for a start.
>
> Really, couldn't someone invloved in the making of the show have popped
> out of the studio and bought a book of uniforms for about $10? If they
> were that short of cash they could have gone to the public library.
>
> "Knowing the lions' preference for red meat, the
> spamalopes remained calm but wary."
>
> Dave McDougall
And just maybe Q made them inaccurate on purpose just to annoy Picard
and Co. It would be just like him to do that.
From Bad Carl's Cavern.
Adam Miller
On Sun, 25 May 1997 13:23:05 -0700, Steve Pugh
<steve...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>Kazuya Uesaki wrote:
>>
>> Does Picard speak English?
>> My question may sound strange but because of the existance of the device
>> so called 'Universal Translater" it is possible for every Starfleet
>> officer to comminicate each other by using his/her/its native language.
>> So picard may speak French and the Universal Translater translate it to
>> English for viewers.
>
>We sometimes hear Picard speaking French, particularly in season one, he
>even swears in french on one occasion, unless the translator is
>switching itself on and off.....
>
>Also there have been references to English in the scripts. So unless the
>translator turns "english" into "french" every time Riker speaks to
>Picard the converstaion wouldn't make sense. Sorry, but everyone in
>StarFleet uses english. (exception: the benzites)
>
> Steve
Picard, along with every other species in the Federation, speaks
FEDERATION STANDARD. Which btw is ENGLISH. English = Federation
Standard. That is THE answer. They all speak English.
Kevin Kreamer
G-Byte wrote:
Maybe the translator that Worf is using is set not to translate
Klingon to English. Everyone else would hear the English translation
while Worf would hear Klingon (which wouldn't matter because he knows
Klingon.) I have a question, though, about lip-reading. Would the
translator make the user also think he/she sees the speaker's lips mouth
the English words, or just the Klingon words? If it simply translates
sound without worrying about the speaker's lips, then any time Picard
and Co. went into any alien culture in which they would need to use the
translator, it would look like a bad kung-fu movie :)
Kevin
Mikko V.I. Parviainen
loc...@apci.net (Adam Miller) writes:
Why? Two words : culture imperialism.... B-)
--
Mikko Parviainen
Menti
How do the universal translators work on other people then??
On Thu, 29 May 1997 23:46:08 GMT, loc...@apci.net (Adam Miller)
wrote:
>On Sun, 25 May 1997 13:23:05 -0700, Steve Pugh
><steve...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>>Kazuya Uesaki wrote:
>>>
>>> Does Picard speak English?
>>> My question may sound strange but because of the existance of the device
>>> so called 'Universal Translater" it is possible for every Starfleet
>>> officer to comminicate each other by using his/her/its native language.
>>> So picard may speak French and the Universal Translater translate it to
>>> English for viewers.
>>
>>We sometimes hear Picard speaking French, particularly in season one, he
>>even swears in french on one occasion, unless the translator is
>>switching itself on and off.....
>>
>>Also there have been references to English in the scripts. So unless the
>>translator turns "english" into "french" every time Riker speaks to
>>Picard the converstaion wouldn't make sense. Sorry, but everyone in
>>StarFleet uses english. (exception: the benzites)
>>
>> Steve
Menti
How do they speak to the people who do not have universal translators.
DO the translators translate for both the wearer and the listener, or
what??
William R. Belcher
No, no, no .... Sisko is bald because he's going for the Hawk look (as in
Spencer for Hire!).
Bbwatcher
Would the universal translator, translate French into a British accent?
Adam Miller <loc...@apci.net> wrote in article
<338e14f...@news.apci.net>...
The Oodler
Yes, Sisko is bald cause he's goin for the Hawk look, but he's also
taking his natural hair loss like a man and when good old Avery saw he
was loosing his hair, he shaved it all off - much like Michael Jordan
The Oodler
HellRazor
On any given date, HellRazor from StraitEdge.Planet may write:
Perhaps....just perhaps, mind you...when young Jean-Luc Picard studied
English (in his schoolroom in France)....his teacher was a Brit...?
"Illegitimati Non Erosus"
Hunter
In article <339090ad...@news.xtra.co.nz>, ood...@xtra.co.nz
The Oodler says...
The above is a good real-world response. In the Star Trek Universe (and
in any other universe depicting the far future), the reason is also very
simple: Sisko, Picard, Dr. Zimmerman, and including one of the
engineering personnel that was killed by Garak a week ago or so WANT to
be-for various reasons-bald. Or they maybe allergic to the baldness cure
of the time.
Of course, the cure for baldness is really simple, that is GENETIC
MANIPULATION. However, due to the traumatic history humanity has had with
eugenics, such a treatment for so trivial a thing is anathema to the
Federation. Just witness what was the possible fate for Dr. Bashir due to
his enhanced intelligence a few episodes back. So they have cured
baldness in a more conventional-and more importantly-VOLUNTARY way.
Also, I do not think they will cure vanity in the 23rd/24th centuries.
That is part of the human condition. As Data said to Weasley in a second
season episode of ST:TNG (paraphrased): "Judging people by their looks is
one of the last great prejudices of mankind." Racism as we know it maybe
eradicated (racism against non-human species survives-note Scotty's
hatred of Klingons, and O'Brian's resentment of "Cardis"), but people
making moral judgements of people because they have "beady eyes" or other
silly things will still be with us.
So Picard et. al are bald because they want to be, or don't give a hoot
what others think, or have some sort of medical condition. Enough said.
--Hunter
--
"The higher, the fewer."
----Alexander Mogh
From ST:TNG
PJM
John Cook wrote:
>
> Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
>
> when he's from France. So this week in the Sev Trek Cartoon Competition,
>> Snip >> Snip >> Snip>>
Maybe he has a universal translator on?
Joey The Great
Chris <ch...@nospam.flash.net> wrote in article
<3386FC...@nospam.flash.net>...
> I think maybe in the future, people will just finally learn that a
> person's physical attributes are not as important as the inner
> attributes. People might have learned not to judge others on their
> physical appearance, so baldness is probably not a factor in anything of
> consequence, because people don't pay attention to things like that.
>
> So the larger question I see is, just how long is it going to take us to
> get to that point where we aren't so vain and image-driven that we pay
> attention to insignificant details such as a person's physical
> appearance?
Were you at Woodstock?
Joey The Great
Explain Little Green Men, then.
Jay Bremner
On 31 May 1997 05:06:52 GMT, "Bbwatcher" <ppt...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Would the universal translator, translate French into a British accent?
>
Is it so hard to believe that English has become the official language
of Earth? Why couldn't a British accent develop in France? After
all, we are talking about a couple hundred years here.
--Jay
(I don't mean to imply that English is better than any other language
or that England is better than France. Don't want to upset people out
there... (: )
If you can't tend to your own planet,
none of you deserve to live here.
-"The Arrival"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Geek Code v 3.1: GCS d-(?) s:+ a-- C++(++++) UBL+(-) P+ L+>++ E- W+>++
N+++ o? K- w+ O? M-(+) V- PS+ PE++(-) Y+ PGP? t+ 5 X
R+>+++ tv+ b+++ DI? D++ G e<++ h-->+(++) r--(*) !y+?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trevor Best
On Sun, 01 Jun 1997 12:53:05 +0100 in alt.binaries.startrek, PJM
<p...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>John Cook wrote:
>>
>> Why is Picard's accent English if he's French?
Patrick Stewart is English :-)
>> I've always wondered why Picard speaks in a Shakespearean English accent
>> when he's from France. So this week in the Sev Trek Cartoon Competition,
>>> Snip >> Snip >> Snip>>
>
>Maybe he has a universal translator on?
>
>
Data once said that French was an obsolete language (never said it again
after the dirty look Picard gave him:), I assume all Earthlings in the
24th centurary speak English, and most would by then, have an English
accent.
Why's Trois accent so funny? not from being Batazoid because her mum is
as well and she speaks relatively normal, as do other Batazoids
encountered. (Marina Sirtis is English as well:)
\|||/
/ \
C o o D
-----------------ooO--u--Ooo-------------------------------
To reply my mail, remove the "nospam." in front of my address,
this was put on in defence of the spam robots that roam usenet.
MS Access FAQ now available on my site below.
- flames > /dev/null
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~trevor/
Trevor Best
On 30 May 97 06:16:10 GMT in alt.binaries.startrek, "William R. Belcher"
<wbel...@students.wisc.edu> wrote:
>No, no, no .... Sisko is bald because he's going for the Hawk look (as in
>Spencer for Hire!).
>
Cronan, Norman and Leanne
Joey The Great <joey...@prodigy.net> wrote
Picard is bald for the same reason that poor little Joey has been left at
the shallow end of the gene pool.
Steve Pugh
Trevor Best wrote:
> Why's Trois accent so funny? not from being Batazoid because her mum is
> as well and she speaks relatively normal, as do other Batazoids
> encountered. (Marina Sirtis is English as well:)
In an early episode her mother complained that the tutors had never
been able to get rid of Troi's accent. And implied (or said outright?)
that the accent came from her father. But when we saw her father later
on, he had a "normal" (ie hollywood-american) accent.
Maybe she picked the accent up from a nanny or early tutor.
Cheers,
Steve
BTW Her accent sounds odd to English ears as well.
Anon
In article <01bc6d5e$582e1620$4c7835cf@pptopa>, "Bbwatcher" <ppt...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Would the universal translator, translate French into a British accent?
Apearently, Queen's English WAS the official language spoken in the region
formerly known as "France". You may recall that French was a DEAD LANGUAGE at
the time; Data refered to it as "an obscure language, formerly..."
Besides, you have to believe that a culture that advanced would have done away
with a language as crude and barbaric as French!!!
Ayretyme
I Have been watchingthis Discussion going on for a few weeks now. There is
one thing that struck me ,,, What does it Matter .
If Sean Connery Can Play A Russian A french Man And An Egyption All In
Major Hollywood Movies , And Keep A Scottish Accent in All Of them. What
does It Matter If Patric Stewart Uses An English Accent As Picard.
Patric Stewart Is One of the best CharactorActors In The World At the
Moment, ButI would hate to think what speaking in a false french accent
would do to his voice after speaking in it fr 7 years . Plus NOTHINg
sounds worse than A false French Accent .. As John Cleazse Said " I Am
French Why do you think I Have this Out Rauuugeous Accent"
Mike :)}
HellRazor wrote in article <33915bf0....@news.wa.net>...
CFB1
So throw him a Life-Saver, any flavor.
CFB1
They went over to the X-Files.
Jonas Grumby
Steve Pugh <steve...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in article
<33930A...@dial.pipex.com>...
| Trevor Best wrote:
|
| > Why's Trois accent so funny? not from being Batazoid because her mum is
| > as well and she speaks relatively normal, as do other Batazoids
| > encountered. (Marina Sirtis is English as well:)
|
| In an early episode her mother complained that the tutors had never
| been able to get rid of Troi's accent. And implied (or said outright?)
| that the accent came from her father. But when we saw her father later
| on, he had a "normal" (ie hollywood-american) accent.
|
| Maybe she picked the accent up from a nanny or early tutor.
This question was first asked and answered 10 years ago. :-)
Marina Sirtis normally speaks with a British accent. According to
her, she said the producers were a bit uneasy "with having two
Brits on the show" (Sirtis and Stewart), so she was asked to come
up with a "Betazoid accent". That's the reason why she "talks
funny". Of course, this caused what might be considered continuity
problems, as other Betazoids appeared on the show and did NOT
speak with Troi's accent...
Johnny Lamar Rhyne
Congraulations, You've just started a flame war.
--
Mr. H.R. Bradshaw(Deceased)
Head Minister, Ministry of Silly Walks
*Is your life in a rut? Then head down
to your local silly walks recruiter today.*
Join now and we will send you a free Shrubbery.
Scott Kellogg
Ayretyme (ayre...@slc.quik.com) wrote:
: I Have been watchingthis Discussion going on for a few weeks now. There is
: one thing that struck me ,,, What does it Matter .
: If Sean Connery Can Play A Russian A french Man And An Egyption All In
: Major Hollywood Movies , And Keep A Scottish Accent in All Of them. What
: does It Matter If Patric Stewart Uses An English Accent As Picard.
: Patric Stewart Is One of the best CharactorActors In The World At the
: Moment, ButI would hate to think what speaking in a false french accent
: would do to his voice after speaking in it fr 7 years . Plus NOTHINg
: sounds worse than A false French Accent .. As John Cleazse Said " I Am
: French Why do you think I Have this Out Rauuugeous Accent"
Sorry, but I must point out that part of being a Character Actor is being
able to alter the way you act. If you can't act like a Frenchman *at
all*, then you are defineitely NOT a good character actor. Picard was
about as French as French Fries.
Scott Kellogg
Escoba
In the first season, one of the crew asked what "French" was, and Data
said that it was an old earth language that had long since died out.
Dan
Are you guys saying that Picard's baldness is a bad thing? I have heard
from a lot of women say that they think it is sexy. I think that the
captin would look dumb were he not bald.
Dan
Joey The Great <joey...@prodigy.net> wrote in article
<01bc6eb3$103bff20$1352edcc@JoeyJones>...
The Oodler
On Mon, 02 Jun 1997 15:57:00 -0400, Anita Whiting <an...@altair.com>
wrote:
>I read somewhere (sorry, I forget where), that Marina developed the
>accent for the character as a hybrid of many different human accents.
>The idea, apparently, was to reflect the intermingling of cultures and
>nationalities, producing mixed accents. But it's still inconsistant
>with her parents' speech (add it to the list of inconsistancies ;) )
>
On the ST 25th anniverary show, the question was posed to Ms. Sirtis
as to where she got the accent from since she has a very harsh,
Cockney accent herself.
She replied that she wanted her character to have an intermingling of
various cultures and her and the director's felt that she could use a
little bit of an exotic twinge to it.
At the beginning of the series, remember that the Riker/Troi
relationship was the only real romantic element in the show at the
time (Picard/Crusher, Yar/Data don't really count) so that an exotic
accent does sort of fit in a Bondesque type of way.
It's also a hell of a lot easier to understand than strong Cockney to
the average viewing public (ie. average joe American)
The Oodler
Steve Pugh
> Sorry, but I must point out that part of being a Character Actor is
> being able to alter the way you act. If you can't act like a Frenchman > *at all*, then you are defineitely NOT a good character actor. Picard > was about as French as French Fries.
What does acting like a Frenchman involve? I'm sorry but I've known
several frenchmen and they are all different.
Or would you only be happy if Picard wore a beret, knocked back bottles
of wine at every opportunity and chased after all the young female
crew members?
Cheers,
Steve
Steve Loraine
Anything has got to be better than her normal cockney accent. I
remember hearing her talk in her natural voice for the first time and
it almost put me right off her - almost but not quite !
Jeff Lee
"Ayretyme" <ayre...@slc.quik.com> wrote:
>
> Patric Stewart Is One of the best CharactorActors In The World At the
> Moment, ButI would hate to think what speaking in a false french accent
> would do to his voice after speaking in it fr 7 years . Plus NOTHINg
> sounds worse than A false French Accent .. As John Cleazse Said " I Am
> French Why do you think I Have this Out Rauuugeous Accent"
To quote Patrick Stewart's character in "L.A. Stories",
"He can haf ze cheecken."
--
Jeff Lee (KoX/SP5/INTJ) shi...@gate.net http://www.gate.net/~shipbrk/
"The only thing that helps me maintain my slender grip on reality
is the friendship I share with my collection of singing potatoes."
Jack in London
Of course it matters!
The future of our civilisation depends upon people like Picard, and it
comforts me to know that there will be just such a man with just such
an accent leading the way.
Thank your lucky stars he doesn't have an American accent. He would be
panicking at regular intervals, nuking every semi-hostile planet he
encounters.
John Baker
In article <01bc6eb1$fdca6da0$1352edcc@JoeyJones>, "Joey The Great"
<joey...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Adam Miller <loc...@apci.net> wrote in article
> <338e14f...@news.apci.net>...
> > On Sun, 25 May 1997 13:23:05 -0700, Steve Pugh
> > <steve...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
> > Picard, along with every other species in the Federation, speaks
> > FEDERATION STANDARD. Which btw is ENGLISH. English = Federation
> > Standard. That is THE answer. They all speak English.
>
> Explain Little Green Men, then.
Quark, Rom and Nog NEVER have spoken English. It just looked (or sounded)
like they did due to the effects of the Universal translator.
Captain Jeffrey L Rupe ,U.S.S.StarFire
Anita Whiting wrote:
>
> Steve Pugh wrote:
> >
> > Trevor Best wrote:
> >
> > > Why's Trois accent so funny? not from being Batazoid because her mum is
> > > as well and she speaks relatively normal, as do other Batazoids
> > > encountered. (Marina Sirtis is English as well:)
> >
> > In an early episode her mother complained that the tutors had never
> > been able to get rid of Troi's accent. And implied (or said outright?)
> > that the accent came from her father. But when we saw her father later
> > on, he had a "normal" (ie hollywood-american) accent.
> >
> > Maybe she picked the accent up from a nanny or early tutor.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > BTW Her accent sounds odd to English ears as well.
> >
>
> accent for the character as a hybrid of many different human accents.
> The idea, apparently, was to reflect the intermingling of cultures and
> nationalities, producing mixed accents. But it's still inconsistant
> with her parents' speech (add it to the list of inconsistancies ;) )
>
Marina said the accent was a result of the producers not wanting
two main characters using English accents.
Snoiopy
Steve Pugh wrote:
>
> Trevor Best wrote:
>
> > Why's Trois accent so funny? not from being Batazoid because her mum is
> > as well and she speaks relatively normal, as do other Batazoids
> > encountered. (Marina Sirtis is English as well:)
>
> In an early episode her mother complained that the tutors had never
> been able to get rid of Troi's accent. And implied (or said outright?)
> that the accent came from her father. But when we saw her father later
> on, he had a "normal" (ie hollywood-american) accent.
>
> Maybe she picked the accent up from a nanny or early tutor.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve
>
> BTW Her accent sounds odd to English ears as well.
>
> +----------------------------------+----------------------------------+
> | Stephen Richard Pugh |
> | maf...@dial.pipex.com |
> | http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/estate/ax16/ |
> +----------------------------------+----------------------------------+
Greek descent. Marina also chose the accent she wanted to use for Troi.
She thought her native accent would sound silly, so she must've chose
the musical, syrupy accent Greeks have when speaking English.
Scott Kellogg
Steve Pugh (steve...@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
: > Sorry, but I must point out that part of being a Character Actor is
: What does acting like a Frenchman involve? I'm sorry but I've known
: several frenchmen and they are all different.
: Or would you only be happy if Picard wore a beret, knocked back bottles
: of wine at every opportunity and chased after all the young female
: crew members?
Well, it might have been a change from his swilling Earl Grey Tea and
nattering on in his Shakesperian English Accent.
I agree that there is no one French behavior pattern anymore than there
is one American, or one British. But, I think that it is very telling
that people participating in this thread were surprised to learn that
Picard is in fact supposed to *be* French. You are only able to pick up
on his origin from his plot lines, not from his acting.
He acted like an English Gentleman, not a French one.
Just as he did in I, Claudius, where he was a Roman English Gentleman,
and in Dune, where he was an Imperial English Gentleman. (Or whatever he
was supposed to be).
Scott Kellogg
JBI Associates S.A.
> kell...@netcom.com (Scott Kellogg) wrote in article
<kelloggsE...@netcom.com>...
> Steve Pugh (steve...@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
> : > Sorry, but I must point out that part of being a Character Actor is
> : > being able to alter the way you act. If you can't act like a
Frenchman > *at all*, then you are defineitely NOT a good character actor.
Picard > was about as French as French Fries.
>
> : What does acting like a Frenchman involve? I'm sorry but I've known
> : several frenchmen and they are all different.
>
> : Or would you only be happy if Picard wore a beret, knocked back
bottles
> : of wine at every opportunity and chased after all the young female
> : crew members?
Now is that your idea of the average French male?
If this were true I'd emigrate, thank you!
Valérie