Voyager replicating torpedoes????
Kasey Chang (fix address before replying to me!)
On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:50:56 -0500, Andrew <and...@yesic.com> wrote:
>Why can't Voyager replicate torpedoes???? I mean in DS9, they have
>self-replicating mines, so why can' Voyager replicate torpedoes?
>Initially (way back in Voy's 1st season), I thought that what keeps
>Voyager from creating more torpedoes was that they don't have have the
>anti-matter needed to make photon torpedoes. After all, the crew needed
>all the anti-matter that they can muster to fuel the ship. Voyager's
>replicates can replicate any matter except for anti-matter, they
>replicate the torpedo casings, the propellant, the computer parts, and
>etc.... But after Call to Arms (DS9 season5 finale), I just couldn't
>figure out why Voyager can't replicate torpedoes. I am of course
>assuming that the replicators on Voyager are much advance than those on
>the mines and also the mines are anti-matter/matter based. One final
>thought (bear with me, it is hard for me to stop once my figures are on
>the keyboard), if those replicators are specifically designed to
>replicate anti-matter, then why weren't Voyager (a ship design and built
>for action and perhaps war) issued an anti-matter replicator (if there
>is such thing in the ST universe??? Anyone have any thoughts on this and
>help me figure all this out??? :-)
You can't replicate anit-matter.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Kasey Chang DCL, Fremont, CA k a s e y c @ d i s c o p y . c o m
PDOXWIN, Star Trek, Computer Games, Science Fiction, Writing, && more
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Commercial use of this e-mail address implies your consent to pay me
amounts of up to US$100.00 per e-mail message from you received by me.
VINCENT...@cpmx.saic.com
In article <34710293...@205.158.0.30>,
kas...@spamsucker.discopy.com wrote:
>
> On Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:50:56 -0500, Andrew <and...@yesic.com> wrote:
>
> >Why can't Voyager replicate torpedoes???? I mean in DS9, they have
> >self-replicating mines, so why can' Voyager replicate torpedoes?
> >Initially (way back in Voy's 1st season), I thought that what keeps
> >Voyager from creating more torpedoes was that they don't have have the
> >anti-matter needed to make photon torpedoes. After all, the crew needed
> >all the anti-matter that they can muster to fuel the ship. Voyager's
> >replicates can replicate any matter except for anti-matter, they
> >replicate the torpedo casings, the propellant, the computer parts, and
> >etc.... But after Call to Arms (DS9 season5 finale), I just couldn't
> >figure out why Voyager can't replicate torpedoes. I am of course
> >assuming that the replicators on Voyager are much advance than those on
> >the mines and also the mines are anti-matter/matter based. One final
> >thought (bear with me, it is hard for me to stop once my figures are on
> >the keyboard), if those replicators are specifically designed to
> >replicate anti-matter, then why weren't Voyager (a ship design and built
> >for action and perhaps war) issued an anti-matter replicator (if there
> >is such thing in the ST universe??? Anyone have any thoughts on this and
> >help me figure all this out??? :-)
>
> You can't replicate anit-matter.
>
True, but according to the TNG Tech Manual, you can generate it. It is
stated that Galaxy class vessels at least carry an AM generator that can
produce antideuterium from standard deuterium for `on-the-fly`
refuelling.
However, even assuming that Voyager carries one of these (which is
unlikely, given that the Manual states that it`s one of the largest
components of a Galaxy class), they probably don`t use it due to the
excessive energy requirements. I would assume that only larger vessels,
designed for long-range exploration, would need this ability. A warship
would normally be stationed closer to the main supply lines.
On the subject of Voyager`s fuel problems, doesn`t the ship have a Bussard
collector ?
Regards,
Vinnie.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Brendan
Kasey Chang wrote:
>
<big scissors, snip, snip, snip>
> You can't replicate anit-matter.
>
Why not? (anti-matter, that is, I have no idea what anit-matter is) The
replicators convert energy to matter in some technobabble way. Why
doesn't that work for anti-matter? Anti-matter is made from positive
energy as well.
Cheers,
Brendan
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| What are we going to do tonight, Brain? |
| The same thing we do every night, Pinky, try to take over the world! |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soulcoffee
On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Brendan wrote:
> Kasey Chang wrote:
> >
> <big scissors, snip, snip, snip>
> > You can't replicate anit-matter.
> >
>
>
> Why not? (anti-matter, that is, I have no idea what anit-matter is) The
> replicators convert energy to matter in some technobabble way. Why
> doesn't that work for anti-matter? Anti-matter is made from positive
> energy as well.
>
> Cheers,
> Brendan
>
Check the episode "Deadlock". You remember, Voyager passes through a nebula
and ends up as two ships, two crews, and one gas tank of antimatter to split
between them (thanks Jim Wright). Janeway explained the principle behind the
doubled ships, and how it couldn't work for anti-matter.
Hence, anti-matter cannot be replicated in the 24th century. In the 29th
century, however...:)
Soulcoffee, MiSTie #52505
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable
game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective
of any of the other players,* to being involved in an obscure and complex
version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite
stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who
_smiles all the time_."
-Neil Gaimen and Terry Pratchett
_Good Omens_
*i.e., everybody.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Capt. Richie Kennedy
Andrew wrote:
>
> Why can't Voyager replicate torpedoes???? I mean in DS9, they have
> self-replicating mines, so why can' Voyager replicate torpedoes?
> Initially (way back in Voy's 1st season), I thought that what keeps
> Voyager from creating more torpedoes was that they don't have have the
> anti-matter needed to make photon torpedoes. After all, the crew needed
> all the anti-matter that they can muster to fuel the ship. Voyager's
> replicates can replicate any matter except for anti-matter, they
> replicate the torpedo casings, the propellant, the computer parts, and
> etc.... But after Call to Arms (DS9 season5 finale), I just couldn't
> figure out why Voyager can't replicate torpedoes. I am of course
> assuming that the replicators on Voyager are much advance than those on
> the mines and also the mines are anti-matter/matter based. One final
Here's the situation: The mines aren't antimatter based
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Capt. Richard P. Kennedy USS Baldwin NCC-2013|
| email: Classified: Access webpage for email |
| Her Mission: To maintain and establish friendships among the crew |
| while kicking some Jem'Hadar rear... |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
| The Plights of the Baldwin are availiable (also for email) |
| http://dv41s35.lawrence.ks.us/startrek |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Cragg
> On the subject of Voyager`s fuel problems, doesn`t the ship have a Bussard
> collector ?
>
>
react with anti-hydrogen. If they did have an anti-matter generator,
they could use fusion reactors to power it, and have a near limitless
supply of hydrogen. Unfortunately, it is said to be a power and time
consuming process (and someone stated that it is unlikely to have the AM
generator because of its size)
Ryan "Did I mention that torpedos are way too powerful?" Cragg
rjc...@sfu.ca
Timo S Saloniemi
In article <3471DB...@smtphost.dur.ac.uk> B.T....@durham.ac.uk writes:
>Kasey Chang wrote:
>>
>> You can't replicate anit-matter.
>Why not? (anti-matter, that is, I have no idea what anit-matter is) The
>replicators convert energy to matter in some technobabble way. Why
>doesn't that work for anti-matter? Anti-matter is made from positive
>energy as well.
Well, the replicators seldom create matter out of thin air. It's
more usual for them to convert some existing matter to a new form.
They probably *could* build some antimatter, but that would take
a bit more energy than the antimatter would later release when
annihilated. So that wouldn't be really fuel-efficient.
But one has to remember the Voyager doesn't have to be fuel-efficient.
It can gather fusionables with its ramscoop, or simply beam up
a lot of water from a nearby planet. This fuel can then be
converted to antimatter, which is the only form of fuel that
can release the energy fast enough for warp power. The Voyager
has no energy shortage, just warp power shortage, and that can be
amended if the replicators can convert energy into antimatter.
One can imagine all sorts of difficulties with replicating
antimatter in large quantities, so perhaps this is not really an
option aboard the Voyager. But I wouldn't put it past the Voyager
to have one of those nifty matter-antimatter converters aboard, no
matter how bulky it is. After all, if they can fit in a spare warp
core, they shouldn't be too cheap about the use of internal spaces.
Timo Saloniemi
Rick Sternbach
In article <64u31i$i...@nntp.hut.fi>, tsal...@delta.hut.fi (Timo S
Saloniemi) wrote:
I'd guess the resaon behind the concern about dwindling torp supplies is
that simple replication of the torps prior to reactant loading might just
takes *so* much energy/time to do the job. Perhaps some componants don't
replicate perfectly well, like sensors, detonator circuitry, mag valves.
If certain construction materials and intricate parts have to be
precision-machined, that might add to the problem. The casings aren't a
problem, and the reactant tankage isn't either, so I'd bet it's the
eensty-weensty pieces.
Rick
--
Rick Sternbach
Senior Illustrator
Star Trek Voyager
"We've been doing so much for so long with so little, that we are now qualified to do anything with nothing!"
gizmo
rster...@earthlink.net (Rick Sternbach) wrote:
they should do a episode of them getting some more torpedos from
another world and convert them to fit there own use.
I would assume that they have the plans on making more torpedos just
getting the parts will be a challege.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Have your personal photos scanned for as low as 50 cents each.
check out my webpage for more info. also check out my growing wav page and star trek page
http://www.jps.net/gizmo1
--------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Barjenbruch
> I'd guess the resaon behind the concern about dwindling torp supplies is
> that simple replication of the torps prior to reactant loading might just
> takes *so* much energy/time to do the job. Perhaps some componants don't
> replicate perfectly well, like sensors, detonator circuitry, mag valves.
> If certain construction materials and intricate parts have to be
> precision-machined, that might add to the problem. The casings aren't a
> problem, and the reactant tankage isn't either, so I'd bet it's the
> eensty-weensty pieces.
Perhaps various friendly alien races along the way home are donating
torpedoes to Voyager, in exchange for various items in trade?
Brian
Changeling
Well, as for Voyager "replicating" antimatter...
If you read the Tech manual made back a while ago...
it says that the Enterprise-D is even equipped with the ability to
manufacture antimatter in small amounts....
So, chances are, that Voyager can do it as well...
But I think the problem they face is the raw materials they would need
for the casing and the guidance system and such...
that and anything complex that is replicated takes much energy...
> I'd guess the resaon behind the concern about dwindling torp supplies is
> that simple replication of the torps prior to reactant loading might just
> takes *so* much energy/time to do the job. Perhaps some componants don't
> replicate perfectly well, like sensors, detonator circuitry, mag valves.
> If certain construction materials and intricate parts have to be
> precision-machined, that might add to the problem. The casings aren't a
> problem, and the reactant tankage isn't either, so I'd bet it's the
> eensty-weensty pieces.
>
Jeff Wilson
Changeling (chang...@atlink.com) wrote:
: Well, as for Voyager "replicating" antimatter...
: If you read the Tech manual made back a while ago...
: it says that the Enterprise-D is even equipped with the ability to
: manufacture antimatter in small amounts....
: So, chances are, that Voyager can do it as well...
: But I think the problem they face is the raw materials they would need
: for the casing and the guidance system and such...
: that and anything complex that is replicated takes much energy...
Well... considering that DS9 has just introduced the concept of
SELF RELPICATING space mines, I see no reason why torps could
not be replicated just as easily....
CJ Wilson
vincent radford
On 24 Nov 1997, Jeff Wilson wrote:
> Well... considering that DS9 has just introduced the concept of
> SELF RELPICATING space mines, I see no reason why torps could
> not be replicated just as easily....
Yeah, but Voyager doesn't have engineering geinus of Rom on their ship
who invented the torps in the first place.
-Vincent
Jeff Wilson
dinewz.oit.unc.edu>
<Pine.SOL.3.94.971124...@utkux4.cas.utk.edu>
Distribution:
vincent radford (vin...@utkux.utcc.utk.edu) wrote:
: -Vincent
Whooptie-shit, V'ger doesn't have the guy who invented the Turkey
Club Sandwich on-board either, but they can replicate one!
If Rom (a bartender by trade) can do it , surely Belana can do it.
CJW
gizmo
tar...@email.unc.edu (Jeff Wilson) wrote:
yeah but do they have the facilities of making them? safely.
I would think it could be done, just replicating the torpedo case. and
getting the anti matter from the warp core.
Tim
"Dreadnought" and several other episodes established that they have
NO WAY of replacing torpetoes.
John D. Goulden
I don't know what you guys are arguing about. They obviously can NOT
replicate torpedoes; too many episodes have established the Voyager carries
a limited and dwindling supply. If they could replicate torpedoes, they
would.
--
John D. Goulden
jgou...@flash.net
Chad Millar
John D. Goulden wrote:
>
> I don't know what you guys are arguing about. They obviously can NOT
> replicate torpedoes; too many episodes have established the Voyager carries
> a limited and dwindling supply. If they could replicate torpedoes, they
> would.
>
> jgou...@flash.net
Maybe they can't replicate torpedo's because they're busy replicating
shuttles
Chad Millar
fer...@australia.net.au
James Grady Ward
John D. Goulden wrote:
>
> I don't know what you guys are arguing about. They obviously can NOT
> replicate torpedoes; too many episodes have established the Voyager carries
> a limited and dwindling supply. If they could replicate torpedoes, they
> would.
Actually I think the problem is replicating anti-matter really, not
the torpedos themselves. Even if they were able to produce some
small amount of anti-matter, somehow I think filling up the fuel
tanks would come first.
--
buckysan
annapuma and unapumma in 98
44% of people think there is intelligent life besides earth
44% of people think there is intelligent life in washington DC
Timo S Saloniemi
In article <01bcfae5$fce74140$7d541ed1@Veritas> "John D. Goulden" <jgou...@flash.net> writes:
>I don't know what you guys are arguing about. They obviously can NOT
>replicate torpedoes; too many episodes have established the Voyager carries
>a limited and dwindling supply. If they could replicate torpedoes, they
>would.
The reason for this debate (one of them, anyway) is that "Scorpion"
established the number of torps aboard the ship at 32, even though
38 was given in "Caretaker" and more than six have been fired
in the episodes in between (something like ten, perhaps even fifteen).
Probably the crew has just opened a few crates labeled "spare parts for
photorps" and thrown together some extra torps out of these parts.
Also, *all* parts of the torp can't be unreplicable - so probably
one crateful of critical non-replicable components, plus careful
use of replicators, could keep the ship supplied for the time being.
This way, the limit of 32 torps would not be too strict, but the
ship would still be in short supply on the long run.
Timo Saloniemi
Michael Wong
>> I don't know what you guys are arguing about. They obviously can NOT
>> replicate torpedoes; too many episodes have established the Voyager carries
>> a limited and dwindling supply. If they could replicate torpedoes, they
>> would.
>Actually I think the problem is replicating anti-matter really, not
>the torpedos themselves. Even if they were able to produce some
>small amount of anti-matter, somehow I think filling up the fuel
>tanks would come first.
Huh? Didn't you say that transporters can easily transport
antimatter? There is no reason that they shouldn't be able to
replicate antimatter if they can transport it.
Nelson Lu
In article <347f8ada....@news.ebtech.net>,
Michael Wong <nospam...@ebtech.net> wrote:
>Huh? Didn't you say that transporters can easily transport
>antimatter? There is no reason that they shouldn't be able to
>replicate antimatter if they can transport it.
Not necessarily. Transporters can definitely transport latinum, but latinum
cannot be replicated.
chris johnson
I don't mean to critisize...but, "Wouldn't they also know of the
Dominion? To go in that way
would mean that mean flying through Dominion space", would have to be
the Most stupic
technical error any respectible Star Trek fan would make. Voyager is in
the Delta Quadrent.
Not the Gamma Quadrent. The Dominion is in the Gamma Quadrent. Ds9 and
Voyager has
been making that poit clear since the beginning of their series.
Now with the deal with the Barzon Wormhole. That idea would be futile
to attempt. It would
end the whole plotline of Voyager. That is the only reason the writers
destroyed Voyager's
chance of going through the Wormhole. And with the idea of trying to
find it...the answer to
that is as obvious as the nose on your face. The Barzon Wormhole is to
unstable and too
unpredictable to find.
The only question that I have in mind is...
In TNG'S Descent Parts I & II, the Enterprise safely navigated through a
Borg transwarp
conduit. They didn't need helf from a Borg to piolet through. With
this in mind, why would 7
be needed for that pourpose? Most importantly, if Starfleet already
know how to use this
technology, why hasn't Janeway already put this idea to use? Or has
that information soo
classified that not even Janeway knew about it? But classifying that
kind of intelligence
would be an illogical act of judgment wouldn't it. It would allow
Starfleet to travel through the
galaxy faster than conventional warp technology.
Speeking of which. Why hasn't the idea of attempting to break the warp
10 barriar be
brought up since the 2nd season of Voyager?
Admiral Chris Johnson
Star Trek Final Frontirs Fan Club
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/1983
stf...@hotmail.com
personal E-mail: cjoh...@bellsouth.net
Tomer
replicated.
--
=/\= Tomer Out =/\=
Tomer Brisker
FAdm, CinC of UFSO
LtFC, Sci of the USS-Navigator-A (SFO)
Lt, Sci of the USS-Greyhawk (ISF)
Boarder & Trainer, HOCK: GSA
The Israel @centaur
bri...@actcom.co.il
"Vaya Carenis Anendus!!!!!"
A wise man once said that peace is a dream.
Let's all be dreamers.
Michael Wong
>Well... considering that DS9 has just introduced the concept of
>SELF RELPICATING space mines, I see no reason why torps could
>not be replicated just as easily....
We don't know that the space mines are the same as photon torpedoes.
The photon torpedoes are supposed to contain a charge of antimatter
and matter which is combined to produce an explosive reaction at the
moment of impact.
The mines, on the other hand, are NEVER fully described. They might
be high-yield nuclear fusion devices instead of matter/antimatter
devices, which would eliminate the need to replicate antimatter.
Dawnmda73
Of course Voyager shouldn't be able to replicate torpedoes but
that hasn't stopped the writers from giving the ship more torps or shuttles for
that matter than she should have considering what has been expended.
br...@barnaud.com
On Thu, 27 Nov 1997 16:06:38 +1100, Chad Millar
<fer...@australia.net.au> wrote:
>John D. Goulden wrote:
>>
>> I don't know what you guys are arguing about. They obviously can NOT
>> replicate torpedoes; too many episodes have established the Voyager carries
>> a limited and dwindling supply. If they could replicate torpedoes, they
>> would.
>>
>> John D. Goulden
>> jgou...@flash.net
>
>Maybe they can't replicate torpedo's because they're busy replicating
>shuttles
>
>Chad Millar
>fer...@australia.net.au
yea and bad scripts.
btw what ever happen to the super weapon they had the Tricobalt
devices?
besides who needs replicated torpedoes? just keep making shuttles and
warp core hatches and throw those at the bad,pesky guys!
Steven
So what's your explanation for the unlimited supply of shuttles?
Brian Barjenbruch
> So what's your explanation for the unlimited supply of shuttles?
They build new ones. What's so unusual about that?
Brian
James Grady Ward
Steven wrote:
>
> So what's your explanation for the unlimited supply of shuttles?
The problem with replicating torpedoes is the anti-matter, not
the casings( ie metal parts).
>
> >>>
> >>> I don't know what you guys are arguing about. They obviously can NOT
> >>> replicate torpedoes; too many episodes have established the Voyager
> carries
> >>> a limited and dwindling supply. If they could replicate torpedoes, they
> >>> would.
> >>>
> >>> John D. Goulden
> >>> jgou...@flash.net
> >>
--
Brian Barjenbruch
> So how do they get the antimatter for the warp cores of the warp-capable
> shuttles?
Friendly races they meet along the way probably give them antimatter in
trade for various other items.
Brian
Mark Sidloi
starcro1 wrote:
>
> James Grady Ward <jgw...@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote in article
> <348B05...@eos.ncsu.edu>...
> > Steven wrote:
> > >
> > > So what's your explanation for the unlimited supply of shuttles?
> >
> > The problem with replicating torpedoes is the anti-matter, not
> > the casings( ie metal parts).
> >
> > >
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I don't know what you guys are arguing about. They obviously can
> NOT
> > > >>> replicate torpedoes; too many episodes have established the Voyager
> > > carries
> > > >>> a limited and dwindling supply. If they could replicate torpedoes,
> they
> > > >>> would.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> John D. Goulden
> > > >>> jgou...@flash.net
> > > >>
> >
> > --
>
> "obvious." To say "They would if they could" is not the same as saying
> "they can't" or "they aren't."
>
> I know there are people out there counting lost shuttles. Does anyone know
> how many torpedoes Voyager has fired since they arrived in the Delta
> Quadrant? The Galaxy-class USS Enterprise, NCC-1701/D, carried an arsenal
> of 250 photon torpedoes. Voyager is less than half the E/D's size, and
> shipped out of Deep Space Nine with a crew about 1/10 the size of Picard's;
> if the arsenals are scaled accordingly, my speculation is that Voyager
> shot off her last original torpedo long ago.
I don't know how many torpedoes they've used up, but I do know that the
ship started with 50 photon torpedoes.
Mark
Charles Spalton
James Grady Ward wrote in message <348B05...@eos.ncsu.edu>...
>Steven wrote:
>>
>> So what's your explanation for the unlimited supply of shuttles?
>
>The problem with replicating torpedoes is the anti-matter, not
>the casings( ie metal parts).
So how do they get the antimatter for the warp cores of the warp-capable
shuttles?
Charles.
starcro1
James Grady Ward <jgw...@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote in article
<348B05...@eos.ncsu.edu>...
> Steven wrote:
> >
> > So what's your explanation for the unlimited supply of shuttles?
>
> The problem with replicating torpedoes is the anti-matter, not
> the casings( ie metal parts).
>
> >
> > >>>
Chris
On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Mark Sidloi wrote:
:starcro1 wrote:
:>
:> James Grady Ward <jgw...@eos.ncsu.edu> wrote in article
:
:I don't know how many torpedoes they've used up, but I do know that the
:ship started with 50 photon torpedoes.
:
:Mark
:
I thought they started with 38.
Chris Inchauste
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Smiley:
Keeper of the "Way Cool Bible"
Defender of Luna
Founder of all that is Karlsruhe
Owner of "The Story of the Great War"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Where the blood flows like water..." --Mackensen, Lord of the Wastelands
"As I've already told you, GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!"
--Emmich, Lord of the Paradises
"Destruction is Good, Chaos is Good!" --Susano, Lord of Destruction
"I created you, NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP!" -Susana, Lord of Creation
"Now, where did I leave THAT pathetic excuse for a universe?"
--Multiverse, The Lord of All
"You're time is up, come with me." --Essen, Lord of Death
"I could give you another life, but..." Emden, Lord of Birth
"Why was *I* made the Lord of Law?" --Imbila, Lord of Law
"<shrugs> At least *I* didn't get Law." Koln, Lord of Crime
"Now count, before I get angry..." --7734, Lord of Numbers
"I think I'll give *that* culture a 25,000 letter alphabet."
--Aeliera, Lord of Letters
"Damnit, I am not the secretary of the gods!"
--Qwerty, Lord of Typing
"Aeliera, try to keep the number of letters to UNDER 100 next time."
--Zalik, Lord of Writing
"What can I say... I *like* my work!" --Talaris, Lord of Torture
"Let me know your greatest desire." --Sienna, Lord of Pleasure
"Damnit Talaris, I'm sick of cleaning up after you..."
--Kin'sa, Lord of Medicine
"Ah yes, another fine plague..." --Killian, Lord of Disease
"All things have patterns, even chaos." T'Saik, Lord of Ordre
"Disorder, chaos... such elegent and inspiring beauty."
--Selena, Lord of Chaos
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dax: "I had no idea."
Sisko: "What?"
Dax: "He's so much more handsome in person...and those eyes..."
Sisko: "Kirk had quite the reputation as a ladies' man."
Dax: "Not him, Spock."
-- Startrek: Deep Space 9 "Trials and Tribble-ations" --
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dax: "I guess he (McCoy) took my advice, about becoming a doctor. I
told him he had the hands of a surgeon."
Sisko: "I get the picture."
-- Startrek: Deep Space 9 "Trials and Tribble-ations" --
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Labrum
Charles Spalton wrote:
> James Grady Ward wrote in message <348B05...@eos.ncsu.edu>...
> >Steven wrote:
> >>
> >> So what's your explanation for the unlimited supply of shuttles?
> >
> >The problem with replicating torpedoes is the anti-matter, not
> >the casings( ie metal parts).
>
> So how do they get the antimatter for the warp cores of the warp-capable
> shuttles?
>
> Charles.
You know, maybe I've been missing something, but hasn't Voyager been
travelling through systems with warp-capable civilizations? Hasn't Voyager
made contact with many many different worlds? Doesn't it seem logical that
they might, just maybe, trade with these people or somehow acquire
antimatter from them?
Michael Wong
>Actually I think the problem is replicating anti-matter really, not
>the torpedos themselves. Even if they were able to produce some
>small amount of anti-matter, somehow I think filling up the fuel
>tanks would come first.
I thought that dilithium had something to do with creating the
antimatter that they use in their M-AM reactors.
Brian Barjenbruch
> I thought that dilithium had something to do with creating the
> antimatter that they use in their M-AM reactors.
Dilithium doesn't create the antimatter, but it does regulate the
matter/antimatter reaction which powers the warp drive. The matter is
deuterium, the antimatter is antihydrogen, and the dilithium is 'in the
middle'--it is the catalyst for the reaction which is the 'heart' of warp
drive.
Brian
Rajah
Brian Barjenbruch wrote in message ...
If they use a deuterium and antihydrogen A-M reaction, then they should have
no problem stocking up on torpedoes. Deuterium is found in water (small
amounts of course), and anihydrogen shouldn't be hard to fabricate or
collect from space. If Voyager is anywhere near an M-class planet, they
should never run out of those basics.
Blackrobe
I was finishing my exagesis on John 4:4-42 when I suddenly realized the
answer to the question, "Why can't Voyager make more torpedos?" The answer
isn't some problem with matter or anti-matter. It's not a difulty with
replicator technology. In fact, the reason why Voyage absolutely cannot
make more torpedos is that Paramount only gave them so many @trademark
stickers to attatch to the casings. As we all know, once THOSE are gone,
there is absolutely no way to make more without facing HUGE lawsuits by big
guys in dark jackets.
Blackrobe
--
Robert R. Ballecer Jr., SJ
"The Original TechnoWeenie!"
rballec**@orion.it.luc.edu
---Remove all asterisks to email me---
Robert C. Levels
On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Brian Barjenbruch wrote:
> > I thought that dilithium had something to do with creating the
> > antimatter that they use in their M-AM reactors.
>
> Dilithium doesn't create the antimatter, but it does regulate the
> matter/antimatter reaction which powers the warp drive. The matter is
> deuterium, the antimatter is antihydrogen, and the dilithium is 'in the
> middle'--it is the catalyst for the reaction which is the 'heart' of warp
> drive.
Just a slight correction. Dilithium does not catalyze the reaction
between matter and antimatter. No catalyst is required for such a
reaction. When matter and antimatter come into contact with one another,
they anihilate one another producing energy. Dilithium is not required
for this reaction to occur.
In theory, dilithium regulates the reaction so it does not get out of
control and directs the energy (plasma) resulting from the reaction (with
the help of magnetic fields) into the EPS power conduits.
Bob
_______________________________________________________________________________
Robert C. Levels P.O. Box 202500
Yale University New Haven, CT 06520
ES '99 (203) 436-3039
ev...@home.com
Michael Wong wrote:
> ...."anihydrogen shouldn't be hard to fabricate..."
then Michael Wong wrote:
> Antihydrogen shouldn't be hard to fabricate or collect from space?
> How do you go about fabricating antihydrogen?
Now evets writes:
To my limited knowledge, the only antimatter can be brought into
existence is through a particle accelerator (during a high energy plasma
run), then "captured" in a magnetic "bottle". I believe, in present day
time, only a few antimatter particles have been captured, but I may be
wrong on that. Check with the sci.physics.partical newsgroup, they may
have a better answer.
EVETS
Michael Wong
>Dilithium doesn't create the antimatter, but it does regulate the
>matter/antimatter reaction which powers the warp drive. The matter is
>deuterium, the antimatter is antihydrogen, and the dilithium is 'in the
>middle'--it is the catalyst for the reaction which is the 'heart' of warp
>drive.
Then where does the antimatter come from?
Michael Wong
>If they use a deuterium and antihydrogen A-M reaction, then they should have
>no problem stocking up on torpedoes. Deuterium is found in water (small
>amounts of course), and anihydrogen shouldn't be hard to fabricate or
>collect from space. If Voyager is anywhere near an M-class planet, they
>should never run out of those basics.
Antihydrogen shouldn't be hard to fabricate or collect from space?
Rajah
Michael Wong wrote in message <3490b9b5...@news.ebtech.net>...
It is either collected from space or manufactured in Voyager's labs. Every
particle has an antiparticle, and we can create many of them today, so it's
not far fetched for Voyager to make a little antihydrogen.
Charles Spalton
Michael Wong wrote in message <3490b9b5...@news.ebtech.net>...
<SNIP>
>Then where does the antimatter come from?
They have to make it or get it from somewhere else - that's why they get
such a whopping great explosion when they have a warp core breach; the
antimatter escapes and can mix with the matter freely. As to making it, we
can already make it by smacking the appropriate subnuclear particles
together; they have even managed to make anti-hydrogen. The difficulty, as
in ST, is containment, because if your few atoms of antihydrogen hit a
hydrogen atom (well, actually, if the nucleus hits a proton or the positron
an electron), and because of their opposite electrical charges they attract
each other, they annihilate to give energy in the form of electro-magnetic
radiation. The result on the level they've done it so far is to get pretty
pictures from particle accelerators; in ST they use the reaction on a bulk
scale to provide power, because it would be vastly more efficient than
fission or fusion in terms of the fuel mass/energy ratio. They still have
to make the stuff, but they can use a different energy source (solar,
conventional fission - remember The Voyage Home, with the Enterprise, the
aircraft carrier) to make the antimatter. That is presumably why Voyager
has so many power problems; their sources of antimatter are limited because
they can't just drop by a starbase to refuel.
Incidentally, why are people saying that warp cores use deuterium as the
matter source? You would get a residue - hydrogen would be cleaner.
Charles.
Charles Spalton
Rajah wrote in message <66qgdj$i16$1...@news.one.net>...
>Michael Wong wrote in message <3490b9b5...@news.ebtech.net>...
<SNIP>
>>Then where does the antimatter come from?
>
>It is either collected from space or manufactured in Voyager's labs. Every
>particle has an antiparticle, and we can create many of them today, so it's
>not far fetched for Voyager to make a little antihydrogen.
>
It is, because they would need to use energy to make it; if you know of any
process that is really better than 100% efficient, please tell me :-)
The problem is, to make antimatter you need to supply energy; you end up
converting energy into particle-antiparticle pairs. You would only get back
the energy you put in in the first place - no new antimatter if the energy
comes from a matter-antimatter reaction in the first place. Antimatter
makes a great fuel, but it still has to be synthesised externally to the
ship, unless they have some subsidiary source of energy. And if they have
that, and can fit it onto a ship in the first place, why use antimatter?
Charles.
Robert C. Levels
On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Michael Wong wrote:
> >Dilithium doesn't create the antimatter, but it does regulate the
> >matter/antimatter reaction which powers the warp drive. The matter is
> >deuterium, the antimatter is antihydrogen, and the dilithium is 'in the
> >middle'--it is the catalyst for the reaction which is the 'heart' of warp
> >drive.
>
> Then where does the antimatter come from?
>
>
Well, according to the tech manual, they've found a way to convert matter
into antimatter cheaply. Every starship even has its own antimatter
generator for emergency use (although refueling at a starbase is
preferred). I don't even think that the tech manual is cannon and since
they really don't address that in the course of the show/movies, who
knows?
However, they do pretty well establish that dilithium regulates the matter
antimatter reaction. And for the last time, M/A reactions do not need to
be catalyzed!!!! If matter hits antimatter, they annihilate each other
and release energy. That reaction will ALWAYS occur, with or without
dilithium. The dilithium regulates the reaction so that it doesn't get
out of control.
Micah Rogers
The slush deuterium tanks??? and slush deuterium takes up less space than
hydrogen. According to the ST-TNG Tech Manual anti-matter can be made on a
starship by using energy input into a partical cyclotron to flip the
hydrogens charge and reverse it's spin
Charles Spalton <charles...@worc.ox.ac.uk> wrote in article
<66qm2p$3uo$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>...
>
> Michael Wong wrote in message <3490b9b5...@news.ebtech.net>...
> <SNIP>
> >Then where does the antimatter come from?
>
Micah Rogers
and the dilitium focuses the plasma stream into the EPS conduits
Robert C. Levels <lev...@pantheon.yale.edu> wrote in article
<Pine.GSO.3.94.971212...@morpheus.cis.yale.edu>...
> On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Michael Wong wrote:
>
> > >Dilithium doesn't create the antimatter, but it does regulate the
> > >matter/antimatter reaction which powers the warp drive. The matter is
> > >deuterium, the antimatter is antihydrogen, and the dilithium is 'in
the
> > >middle'--it is the catalyst for the reaction which is the 'heart' of
warp
> > >drive.
> >
> > Then where does the antimatter come from?
> >
> >
>
Charles Spalton
Micah Rogers wrote in message <01bd079e$73ebc3a0$20346420@default>...
>The slush deuterium tanks??? and slush deuterium takes up less space than
>hydrogen. According to the ST-TNG Tech Manual anti-matter can be made on a
>starship by using energy input into a partical cyclotron to flip the
>hydrogens charge and reverse it's spin
Firstly, hydrogen, too, can exist as a slush - no need to use deuterium to
get one, and you still get the space saving.
Secondly, my point is that if they use the matter-antimatter reaction to
make more antimatter, the energy input in should equal the energy released
when the antimatter is used in a matter-antimatter reaction, assuming 100%
efficiency. If that is the case, then they would run out since Voyager's
warp engines will not be much more efficient than the Enterprise D's, which
on one episode (as far as I remember) were mentioned to have an efficiency
in the high 90% region - I don't remember the precise figure. However,
perhaps this explains the close approach to that star in the credit
sequence? An external source of energy such as that which could be obtained
from such an approach _would_ be a valid refuelling method, since then they
can use that energy to create more antimatter.
Charles.
John Myers
> It is, because they would need to use energy to make it; if you know of
any
> process that is really better than 100% efficient, please tell me :-)
> The problem is, to make antimatter you need to supply energy; you end up
> converting energy into particle-antiparticle pairs. You would only get
back
> the energy you put in in the first place - no new antimatter if the
energy
> comes from a matter-antimatter reaction in the first place. Antimatter
> makes a great fuel, but it still has to be synthesised externally to the
> ship, unless they have some subsidiary source of energy. And if they
have
> that, and can fit it onto a ship in the first place, why use antimatter?
The explaination in the TNG tech manual (and specs for the converter) is
that you can suck in hydrogen with the Bussard Ramscoops while on Impulse
drive. This Hydrogen can be used in the Fusion reactos to provide power for
ship functions (including the power for the Ramscoops and the Impuse
engines). Now you could simply continue along on Impulse power but it would
not be that good due to the limited speed.
A better idea is to use the Converter to make anti-matter, even though they
say that you get about 10% of the power out in anti-matter than you put in,
since this can be used in the Warp Drive. Even if you used all the fuel and
energy you put into the converter for impulse drive you wouldn't get as far
as you would with a bit of Warp (especially since the life-support systems
can be real power-hogs and would suck up a lot of energy over the longer
time).
Michael Wong
>They have to make it or get it from somewhere else - that's why they get
>such a whopping great explosion when they have a warp core breach; the
>antimatter escapes and can mix with the matter freely. As to making it, we
>can already make it by smacking the appropriate subnuclear particles
>together; they have even managed to make anti-hydrogen. The difficulty, as
>in ST, is containment, because if your few atoms of antihydrogen hit a
>hydrogen atom (well, actually, if the nucleus hits a proton or the positron
>an electron), and because of their opposite electrical charges they attract
>each other, they annihilate to give energy in the form of electro-magnetic
>radiation. The result on the level they've done it so far is to get pretty
>pictures from particle accelerators; in ST they use the reaction on a bulk
>scale to provide power, because it would be vastly more efficient than
>fission or fusion in terms of the fuel mass/energy ratio. They still have
>to make the stuff, but they can use a different energy source (solar,
>conventional fission - remember The Voyage Home, with the Enterprise, the
>aircraft carrier) to make the antimatter. That is presumably why Voyager
>has so many power problems; their sources of antimatter are limited because
>they can't just drop by a starbase to refuel.
>Incidentally, why are people saying that warp cores use deuterium as the
>matter source? You would get a residue - hydrogen would be cleaner.
OK, this all sounds pretty good, but we don't know how much energy is
required to make large quantities of antimatter and we don't know how
much energy is expended in storing it, controlling it, and moving it
into the reaction chamber.
We also don't know how efficient the energy COLLECTION and CONVERSION
system is- after all, there's no use in making tons of energy unless
you can collect it and convert it into a useful form.
There are simply too many unknowns (and even more unknowns in terms of
SW reactor systems) to make any kind of a solid assessment of SW vs ST
powerplant efficiencies and total outputs. Hell, the entire
powerplant discussion is predicated upon the mention of "miniature
stars" as Star Destroyer powerplants in one of the tech manuals, which
are dismissed as non-canon by ST fans whenever the stupid "turbolasers
are lasers" thread starts up again.
Martin Hazell
<<<SNIP>>>>
>
> You know, maybe I've been missing something, but hasn't Voyager been
>travelling through systems with warp-capable civilizations? Hasn't Voyager
>made contact with many many different worlds? Doesn't it seem logical that
>they might, just maybe, trade with these people or somehow acquire
>antimatter from them?
>
According to the NG Technical manual, there is a special machine on board
the ship that can convert matter to antimatter - the Quantum Charge Reversal
Device. It takes the hydrogen (collected from the buzzard ramscoops - the
red things on the nacelles) and stretched it, cools it and basically changes
it to antimatter. This might not be very good, as the unit takes 10 units
of matter, to create 1 unit of antimatter. Perhaps, this new improved
Voyager, has lowered this ratio and made it more energy efficient.
"Away put your weapon, mean I no harm" - Quote of the week at
www.martinh.force9.co.uk
Scifi site updated weekly.
Martin Hazell
>Antihydrogen shouldn't be hard to fabricate or collect from space?
>How do you go about fabricating antihydrogen?
If there was any "antihydrogen", it would have collided with some matter by
now and have been destroyed. This is why there is only matter in the
universe (or only antimatter - depending which way you look at it.)
Sci fi site - Voyager every week!!! ***www.martinh.force9.co.uk***
Jonny Stipe
I see no reason Voyager couldn't replicate torpedoes or shuttles. The only
reason you can't replicate antimatter is because you need all of it for the
warp core. Normally, you don't need to replicate antimatter because you can
just stop by the nearest Starbase to get more torpedoes and shuttles. But
Voyager, being trapped in the Delta Quadrant, has to improvise. Voyager is
*forced* to spare some antimatter for the replicators, and to rely solely on
its Bussard Collectors to replenish its supply of matter and antimatter.
That's where it gets all those shuttles and torpedoes.
tre...@home.com
* On DEEP SPACE NINE when they put up a Mine Field in front of the
* Bajoran Worm Hole, the mines were designed to replicate new
* mines to relace those hit by the Jem-Haddar (sp?) warships, so
* that there would never be any gaps (the mines are also cloaked).
* Don't know if they contain any anti-matter ż
Shai'tan
Michael Wong <nospam...@ebtech.net> wrote in article
<3490bd7c...@news.ebtech.net>...
> >If they use a deuterium and antihydrogen A-M reaction, then they should
have
> >no problem stocking up on torpedoes. Deuterium is found in water (small
> >amounts of course), and anihydrogen shouldn't be hard to fabricate or
> >collect from space. If Voyager is anywhere near an M-class planet, they
> >should never run out of those basics.
>
> Antihydrogen shouldn't be hard to fabricate or collect from space?
> How do you go about fabricating antihydrogen?
>
Voyager has a small anti-matter generation unit. It uses huge amounts of
energy, but can produce antimatter in small quantities, perhaps in a year
they could get enough to make a torpedo. Not very economical.
And no, there would be VERY little anti-deuterium floating out there. 99%
of all matter annihilated in the first instant of the universe, as matter
and anti-matter interacted. Very little antimatter left sitting out there
for Ramscoops.
Dennis Iannicca
In rec.arts.startrek.current Shai'tan <mur...@OntheNet.com.au> wrote:
: Voyager has a small anti-matter generation unit. It uses huge amounts of
: energy, but can produce antimatter in small quantities, perhaps in a year
: they could get enough to make a torpedo. Not very economical.
: And no, there would be VERY little anti-deuterium floating out there. 99%
: of all matter annihilated in the first instant of the universe, as matter
: and anti-matter interacted. Very little antimatter left sitting out there
: for Ramscoops.
So where does Starfleet go when they need to make thousands of
photon torpedoes? Produce it themselves?
--
---------------------------------------------
drs...@dominion.cba.csuohio.edu
Blinky lights are the essence of technology!
Caffeine underflow (brain dumped)
void main() { __asm__(".long 0xc8c70ff0"); }
Tim
I quite Chakote from one of the second season episodes (I
ccan't remember which)
"We only have 37 (or some other # like it) Torpetoes with NO
WAY TO REPLACE THEM."
So obviously they can't replicate them. Can we end thus
thread now?
-- Tim
-=(JC)=-
Martin Hazell wrote in message <66vu5a$l...@news1.force9.net>...
>
>>Antihydrogen shouldn't be hard to fabricate or collect from space?
>>How do you go about fabricating antihydrogen?
>
>now and have been destroyed. This is why there is only matter in the
>universe (or only antimatter - depending which way you look at it.)
>
>Sci fi site - Voyager every week!!! ***www.martinh.force9.co.uk***
Actually, there was a whole big hoo-yah in science news a couple months ago
when they discovered that there's a plume of antimatter stretching for
hundreds
of light-years up from the "north" side of the Milky Way Galaxy (that's
ours).
The antimatter's existence was inferred by the wavelength of em radiation
that
was coming from the area (a specific frequency of gamma waves which is most
normally produced by an electron-positron annihilation).
-JC (j...@chiptech.com)
Robert Scott Horning
Charles Spalton wrote:
I'd like to point out the obvious.... deuterium is hydrogen, unless you
are talkingabout simple protons, but that is besides the point.
Deuterium is very useful
because it is one step further down the reaction list to becomming
helium than
simple protons in a nuclear fusion reaction. The sun has to spend extra
energy
to force protons together in the first place to make deuterium. In a
matter
anti-matter annihilation reaction this is essentially irrelavant other
than deuterium
has more mass (read double the mass for the same number of molecules of
the
stuff) than hydrogen proton molecules. You would want to slush the
stuff simply
to pack more of it into a tank.
Storage of liquid hydrogen is fairly simple stuff. It is used right now
by NASA
for Space Shuttle flights as the primary propellant. (This is just a
chemical
reaction with oxygen, however) I would suspect that Starfleet would
probabally
put a large reserve of hydrogen on board a starship just for nothing
else than
some ballast, balancing the ship load and helping with the structural
integrity.
This would also help with the primary warp drive by being the target
matter
for the anti-matter annihilation.
As far as the emergency anti-matter creation: I would suspect a
Starfleet
engineer would be able to run an emergency nuclear fusion reactor
running
off of the deuterium, possibly enhancing it with helium burning
reactions
as well to generate the extra energy needed to generate small quantities
of
anti-matter. Stretching this even further, when a starship is going at
a fairly
healthy portion of the speed of light (0.25 c or better) they could also
do some
sweeping of interstellar gasses like a Bussard ram-jet to collect even
more
hydrogen to fuel the reactor. Nebula clouds would also work rather
nicely
in situations like this, as a fusion fuel source. Perhaps this is why
starships
(especially the USS Voyager) spend so much time at impulse... to
recharge
their batteries?
I will add, however, that to get a formal refueling from a starbase
would be
prefered to all this playing around trying to get a little bit of extra
performance
from your hydrogen supply.
Robert Horning
Stephane Martineau
Allen Newman wrote:
> In article <6796uc$p9i$1...@csu-b.csuohio.edu>,
> drs...@dominion.cba.csuohio.edu (Dennis Iannicca) wrote:
>
> >In rec.arts.startrek.current Shai'tan <mur...@OntheNet.com.au> wrote:
>
> >: Voyager has a small anti-matter generation unit. It uses huge
> amounts of
> >: energy, but can produce antimatter in small quantities, perhaps in
> a year
> >: they could get enough to make a torpedo. Not very economical.
> >: And no, there would be VERY little anti-deuterium floating out
> there. 99%
> >: of all matter annihilated in the first instant of the universe, as
> matter
> >: and anti-matter interacted. Very little antimatter left sitting out
> there
> >: for Ramscoops.
> >
> > So where does Starfleet go when they need to make thousands
> of
> >photon torpedoes? Produce it themselves?
>
> Starfleet must have bases whose sole function is producing antimatter
> fuel
> for starships, using tremendous non-antimatter energy sources to power
> the
> process.
>
> It's not economical for a ship to produce its own antimatter because
> it
> would expend more energy making the antimatter than it would get back.
>
> The only reason for having an antimatter generator on board is so if a
>
> ship loses its antimatter supply in the middle of nowhere, it has a
> chance
> (after what would probably be at least several months of total effort
> spent on antimatter generation) to get its warp engines online and get
> a
> bit closer to home.
When you create anti-matter you create matter at the same time. The
only difference between the two is the charge, you cannot create one
without creating the other and it's not harder to create matter then to
create anti-matter. So if replicator can create matter from energy (a
lot ot it), then they must create anti-matter at the same time, they can
store it somewhere else, and reconvert it into energy be colliding the
particule with normal matter, but that something else.
Today we create matter and anti-matter inside our particule
accelerator. With a technology like ST it will probably be very easy to
create it. And if you need energy, you're in space and you can go
anywhere collect it. Star and planets are everywhere, so.
Ship like voyager use high quantity of energy for every ship
function. And the warp core is not the only one who can produce energy.
If portable replicator exist, we can assume that tons of equipment in a
ST ship can procude all kind of energy. But the warp core is the only
thing who can produce enough energy (warp particule, whatever they are)
to create a warp field. Of course I have no idea how a warp core work,
if it was the case I'll probably be rich :)
Tim
Joe D
Why do they need to replicate torpedeos? They can replicate the
casing, and most of the other stuff, but the stuff they can't
replicate, like antimatter, they can find in a nebula or something.
I was going to end this thread, but you wrote in all caps, AND posted
it twice, one with and once without HTML tags, so i felt I was morally
obligated to continue this thread.
On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 22:06:41 -0600, Tim <ry...@computerpro.com> wrote:
-}
-}--------------A2C6D4FDE5C05D3A7A6FCAE6
-}Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
-}Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-}
-} FOR THE LAST TIME, IN A SECOND SEASON EOPISODE, CHAKOTE SAID THAT THEY HAVE
-} NO WAY TO REPLACE TORPETOES! THEREFORE, THEY CAN'T REPLICATE THEM.
-} PLEASE END THIS THREAD NOW!!!!
-}
-}--------------A2C6D4FDE5C05D3A7A6FCAE6
-}Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
-}Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-}
-}<HTML>
-}
-}<CENTER><FONT SIZE=+4>FOR THE LAST TIME, IN A SECOND SEASON EOPISODE, CHAKOTE
-}SAID THAT THEY HAVE NO WAY TO REPLACE TORPETOES! THEREFORE, THEY
-}CAN'T REPLICATE THEM.</FONT></CENTER>
-}
-}<CENTER><FONT SIZE=+4></FONT></CENTER>
-}
-}<CENTER><FONT SIZE=+4>PLEASE END THIS THREAD NOW!!!!</FONT></CENTER>
-}</HTML>
-}
-}--------------A2C6D4FDE5C05D3A7A6FCAE6--
-}
/\ Posted By Da Man /\
Matthew Harvie
Voyager has an antimatter generator, such as that on the Enterprise-D (check
the tech manual).
CFB1
Tim wrote:
Apply shrink ray. . .bzzzttt!
>
> FOR THE LAST TIME, IN A SECOND SEASON EOPISODE, CHAKOTE SAID THAT THEY
> HAVE NO WAY TO REPLACE TORPETOES! THEREFORE, THEY CAN'T REPLICATE
> THEM.
> PLEASE END THIS THREAD NOW!!!!
>
Damn idiot. Maybe they had someone build them some. And it's torpedoes,
not torpetoes.
--
From Bad Carl's Cavern.
Life is hard.
It's even harder when you're stupid.
Marius Kleiner
>> FOR THE LAST TIME, IN A SECOND SEASON EOPISODE, CHAKOTE SAID THAT THEY
>> HAVE NO WAY TO REPLACE TORPETOES! THEREFORE, THEY CAN'T REPLICATE
>> THEM.
>> PLEASE END THIS THREAD NOW!!!!
An explanation I heard once was that the replicator couldn't produce energy,
what would be a logical reason why they can't replicate a torpedo. But: How
then is it possible to replicate Earl Grey Tea _hot_? If everything
replicated hadn't any energy, it would have a temperature of 0 K
(that's -273.16 °C) . So far about the logic of replicators ...
Marius Kleiner
<mar...@access.ch>
--
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was
convincing the world he didn't exist."
PLEASE CC ANSWER BY E-MAIL / REMOVE THE "x-"
BEFORE REPLYING!
lauren michael oliver
The reason Picard can replicate hot Earl Grey tea but Chakotay cannot
replicate torpedoes is because Star Trek is not real, it is a fantasy
and there are bound to be some inconsistencies.
roberto
That's the best reason i 've heard in years ,
people STAR TREK isn't Real
===================================================================
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Roberto Lavoie
rober...@videotron.ca
Ma page inutile!
http://pages.infinit.net/locutusb/
-------------------------------------------------------------------
===================================================================
Derek J. Cashman
roberto wrote in message <34A98C44...@videotron.ca>...
Derek J. Cashman
Mark Nguyen
So?
Mark
--
--------------------------------------------------
MARK NGUYEN Alberta Research Council
Remove "spamyuck" from my address to respond
This sig brought to you by: SEMANTICS INCORPORATED
"...Redefining the word quality."
--------------------------------------------------
stealth
Mark Nguyen wrote in message <34AB07...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>...
>Derek J. Cashman wrote:
>>
>>
>> Star Trek is about as real as Seven of Nine's breasts!!
Although Star Trek is no longer as big as Seven of Nine's breasts.
Star Trek, you are small.
E.E. van Vliet
>The reason Picard can replicate hot Earl Grey tea but Chakotay cannot
>and there are bound to be some inconsistencies.
Okay, but it doesn't hurt to try and pach these inconsistancies.
e.g.
All replicators have safety-features that don't allow them to produce
dangerous
substances (remember 'the Q and the grey'?) or weapons. They probably
weren't
able to override.
EEvV
Alan Doane
On Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:02:04 -0000, "E.E. van Vliet" <way...@xs4all.nl>
wrote:
>>The reason Picard can replicate hot Earl Grey tea but Chakotay cannot
>>replicate torpedoes is because Star Trek is not real, it is a fantasy
>>and there are bound to be some inconsistencies.
>
>
Actually, in context, and assuming we are talking about Quantum
Torpedos, I would think the nature of quantum particles would preclude
the possibility of replicating them with any success..whereas a cup of
tea is just...tea.
Alan Doane
I trade episodes of many TV series--B5, Trek (all), XF, Millennium, many more.
If you're looking for a hard to find episode, get in touch. I trade for comics,
video and action figures, and will consider cash offers if you have nothing to trade.
e-mail: boyd...@hotmail.com web site: http://www.angelfire.com/biz/boydoane
Julian M Hall
In article <68il31$241$1...@198.69.31.225>, Alan Doane
<boyd...@hotmail.com> writes
>On Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:02:04 -0000, "E.E. van Vliet" <way...@xs4all.nl>
>wrote:
>
>>>The reason Picard can replicate hot Earl Grey tea
Just as a point that just occrred to me. How did they replicate
Brownian motion? Or is the replication just a taste/texture thing?
--
Julian "I can spell... I just can't type" Hall
"Promises made by the brain will be broken by the heart"
ABECKET
But rick berman said (when asked that question) that they have special
replicators for that purpose.
Oh well.
~Mega
Joe
boyd...@hotmail.com (Alan Doane) wrote:
>Actually, in context, and assuming we are talking about Quantum
>Torpedos, I would think the nature of quantum particles would preclude
>the possibility of replicating them with any success..whereas a cup of
>tea is just...tea.
So whaddaya think tea is made of at the subatomic level?
Joe McGinn
===================================================
Author of Inside LotusScript
http://www.manning.com/McGinn/459.html
===================================================
RedHorus
Joe <mcg...@direct.ca> writes
>>Actually, in context, and assuming we are talking about Quantum
>>Torpedos, I would think the nature of quantum particles would preclude
>>the possibility of replicating them with any success..whereas a cup of
>>tea is just...tea.
>
>So whaddaya think tea is made of at the subatomic level?
>
I think I heard once that replicators work at an atomic/molecular
level (building the Earl Grey using pre-existing molecules?) whereas
transporters *do* work at the quantum level...
--
Red Horus
"Small though it is, the human brain can
be quite effective if used properly!"
Philip Parsons
In article <686ba9$nf2$1...@pacifica.access.ch>, Marius Kleiner <x-
mar...@access.ch> writes
>An explanation I heard once was that the replicator couldn't produce energy,
>what would be a logical reason why they can't replicate a torpedo. But: How
>then is it possible to replicate Earl Grey Tea _hot_? If everything
>replicated hadn't any energy, it would have a temperature of 0 K
>(that's -273.16 °C) . So far about the logic of replicators ...
>
>Marius Kleiner
><mar...@access.ch>
Well maybe after replicating Earl Grey Tea at 0 K it then applies a
temperature to it to make it hot.
--
Philip Parsons
Philip Parsons
In article <68gsm9$q05$1...@news.worldonline.nl>, "E.E. van Vliet"
<way...@xs4all.nl> writes
>
>Okay, but it doesn't hurt to try and pach these inconsistancies.
>e.g.
>All replicators have safety-features that don't allow them to produce
>dangerous
>substances (remember 'the Q and the grey'?) or weapons. They probably
>weren't
>able to override.
>
>
>
or was it because it was too complex to replicate. Replicators cannot
replicate things on the quantum level although I am sure that this is
not required for poison but you never know. It was after all incurable
by the most sophisticated doctor.
--
Philip Parsons
EUGENE MC NAMEE
GOOD ONE..............
Mark Nguyen wrote in message <34AB07...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>...
>Derek J. Cashman wrote:
>>
>>
>> Star Trek is about as real as Seven of Nine's breasts!!
>>
>>
Plain and Simple Cronan
This little shit has been sending spam to addresses he has dug up on the
ST groups.
P&SC
stealth
I have informed lineone.net about star...@lineone.net.
You can email sup...@lineone.net about the spams. I actually got a response
from a human being. This is an ISP in the UK.
Plain and Simple Cronan wrote in message
<34B43DE0...@deathsdoor.com>...
David
Michael Wong wrote:
>
> >I think I heard once that replicators work at an atomic/molecular
> >level (building the Earl Grey using pre-existing molecules?) whereas
> >transporters *do* work at the quantum level...
>
> inconsistencies in their plots.
>
> Supposedly, you are never converted to computer data in a transporter-
> you are in some sort of transporter "stream". But Scotty was stored
> as computer data for decades, which violated this idea. Damn writers
> ...
Scotty wasn't stored as computer data. The transporter kept him on a
continual loop. In "Day of the Dove" Kirk had Scotty hold the Klingons
in stasis inside the transporter. It was probably the same type of thing
that saved Scotty.
Michael Wong
*.Young
Michael Wong wrote:
> Supposedly, you are never converted to computer data in a transporter-
> you are in some sort of transporter "stream". But Scotty was stored
> as computer data for decades, which violated this idea. Damn writers
> ...
Okay... lets see. DS9 episode "Our Man Bashir" tells us a lot about
transporter functionings. In it we see an emergency beamout which cannot
be kept dematerialised for very long (and for some reason I don't
remember they couldn't rematerialise them, either) because the
transporter stream gets signal degredation after a number of seconds. So
Odo has to dump the bridge crew (oops, this is station... I don't
suppose they're still called bridge crew, are they) over the top of most
of the station's computer system.
*ENGAGING FIX-UP-A-WRITER'S-MESS MODULE*
Anyway. Remember that there was another person in the transporter loop
with Scotty? His signal had deteriorated to about 50% - pretty dead. So
Scotty had some luck with him (as usual). As well as this, either (or
both?) of two things can help explain why Scotty lived through 75 years
in a transporter loop:
1) The emergency beamout nature of the DS9 situation perhaps made some
difference to the stabilty of the stream, and Scotty's stream was set up
under ordinary conditions.
2) Perhaps the transporter signals in those days could handle long
periods of time in a buffer because of a difference in the way they
operated - after all the operator always had to energise the beam with
that lever.
*DISENGAGING FIX-UP-A-WRITER'S-MESS MODULE*
Oh, wait a minute... Scotty _automatically_ set up his transporter loop,
didn't he? Damn.
David Young.
Kasey Chang (fix address before replying to me!)
>>I think I heard once that replicators work at an atomic/molecular
>>level (building the Earl Grey using pre-existing molecules?) whereas
>>transporters *do* work at the quantum level...
>
>Yes, I've heard the same thing, but the writers have put glaring
>inconsistencies in their plots.
>Supposedly, you are never converted to computer data in a transporter-
>you are in some sort of transporter "stream". But Scotty was stored
>as computer data for decades, which violated this idea. Damn writers
Really, you want the technobabble explanation for that? :-D
Supposedly your "pattern" is dumped into the pattern buffer after
dematerialization. Scotty allegedly triggered a continuous diagnostic
loop AFTER he was dematerialized, which supposedly kept his pattern
"fresh" for all those years. Nothing really with computer data...
Unless you think of pattern buffer as a digital device. ;-)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Kasey Chang DCL, Fremont, CA k a s e y c @ d i s c o p y . c o m
PDOXWIN, Star Trek, Computer Games, Science Fiction, Writing, && more
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Commercial use of this e-mail address implies your consent to pay me
amounts of up to US$100.00 per e-mail message from you received by me.
Steve Rawnsley
He's a miracle worker after all! A rather incestuous beam-me-up Scotty!
*.Young
Kasey Chang (fix address before replying to me!) wrote:
> Supposedly your "pattern" is dumped into the pattern buffer after
> dematerialization. Scotty allegedly triggered a continuous diagnostic
> loop AFTER he was dematerialized, which supposedly kept his pattern
> "fresh" for all those years. Nothing really with computer data...
> Unless you think of pattern buffer as a digital device. ;-)
Which it isn't. Watch DS9's "Our Man Bashir", series 4 (I think!). Oh,
and that's a good explanation for the Scotty thing, too.
David Young.